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(BGR)   Does RIM shocker imply wider handset market deterioration?   (bgr.com) divider line 51
    More: Interesting, rim, profit warnings, handsets, European debt crisis, diagnostics, Alcatel-Lucent, Sami Salo, equity research  
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2950 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Jun 2012 at 5:44 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-28 05:47:27 PM
it means if you have stock with them, bend over
 
2012-06-28 05:50:11 PM
There's a shocker joke here somewhere. Shareholders are hoping they're not in it as deep as Palm?
 
2012-06-28 05:54:55 PM
Playing follow-the-leader, with leader being a company supported entirely by chalas, is a bad business model.
 
2012-06-28 05:56:09 PM
RIM has put it's entire future onto BlackBerry 10, and just announced another delay. They haven't put *anything* compelling into the market in going on half a decade.

They'll hit $6 a share by next Wednesday.
 
2012-06-28 06:05:10 PM
No. It means RIM, like Polaroid has failed to adapt to new technology and demands of it's consumers.

Just three short years ago, Blackberry held 40% of the market share for smartphones.
 
2012-06-28 06:05:33 PM

Rent Party: RIM has put it's entire future onto BlackBerry 10, and just announced another delay. They haven't put *anything* compelling into the market in going on half a decade.

They'll hit $6 a share by next Wednesday.


And as more and more large companies figure out it's cheaper to not employ Nick Burns to run an internal Exchange server, it's only going to get worse.
 
2012-06-28 06:07:33 PM
All the while Palm and Blackberry were competing against each other, Apple and Android were reinventing the market.

Who wants analog tv when you can go hi-def digital?
 
2012-06-28 06:19:40 PM
as with any article headline that asks a question, the answer is 'no.' it just means that RIM can't compete, and are doomed.
 
2012-06-28 06:39:57 PM
It is somewhat ridiculous how bad RIM screwed the pooch. We have a small (single digit employees) company, and a simple little Exchange server in our closet. We looked into getting Blackberries back in 08 and realized they wanted you to pay to use BES on top of that. So we said fark that, and everyone just uses Exchange to sync their respective personal smartphone to our server. Haven't looked back.

RIM should have shamelessly copied the iPhone's good features while adding better ones, just like Google did.

/loving my Nexus S
//original Android prototype looked like this. *shudder*
 
2012-06-28 07:09:07 PM

hurdboy: There's a shocker joke here somewhere. Shareholders are hoping they're not in it as deep as Palm?


I thought "RIM shocker" WAS the joke
 
2012-06-28 07:10:12 PM
Who wants analog tv when you can go hi-def digital?

hey, i still have a 27" CRT and can get 2 channels on a regular basis with my digital converter box
 
2012-06-28 07:25:14 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: hurdboy: There's a shocker joke here somewhere. Shareholders are hoping they're not in it as deep as Palm?

I thought "RIM shocker" WAS the joke


Actually, "RIM Shocker" and "wider handset" was the joke.
 
2012-06-28 07:41:37 PM
Microsoft Exchange was the torpedo that help sink RIM. Corporate drones once chained to Blackberry Enterprise Server were free to buy Android & iPhones.
 
2012-06-28 07:50:26 PM
Today we met with Apple to discuss replacing all blackberrys with iPhones. We aren't the first ones. And the weird thing - Apple managed to deliver a compelling presentation.
 
2012-06-28 08:09:12 PM

Opiate of the Lasses: It is somewhat ridiculous how bad RIM screwed the pooch. We have a small (single digit employees) company, and a simple little Exchange server in our closet. We looked into getting Blackberries back in 08 and realized they wanted you to pay to use BES on top of that. So we said fark that, and everyone just uses Exchange to sync their respective personal smartphone to our server. Haven't looked back.
*


RIM made it free in 2010, if that's any help. But I agree it was ridiculous. I remember the fights I used to have to have with people over it.
 
2012-06-28 08:17:25 PM
It was only until recently the one hole card that RIM held, encryption/security, seemed solid. Now, not so much. Android has a schema.....Dr's, lawyers whatevers can now have a 'smart phone'.(HIPAA/SOX)..whooptifarking dooo. As a sys admin, managing BES or a Traveler for smart phones is no real big diff to me The idiots on the other end just keep coming and getting dumber. It's job security.

'Why can't I open this 85K line excel spreadsheet on my iDildo?'
 
2012-06-28 08:56:13 PM

gingerjet: Today we met with Apple to discuss replacing all blackberrys with iPhones. We aren't the first ones. And the weird thing - Apple managed to deliver a compelling presentation.


Do they actually have a corporate support program for the iPhones that includes hardware warranties beyond a year?
 
2012-06-28 09:12:42 PM

smeag0l: Microsoft Exchange was the torpedo that help sink RIM. Corporate drones once chained to Blackberry Enterprise Server were free to buy Android & iPhones.


You do realize that Blackberry servers and devices synced with Exchange, right? Android and iPhone allowed people to connect to Exchange servers, but Exchange wasn't specifically tailored to support these devices.

There still isn't any rock-solid management software for either Android or iPhone yet, which is the only reason that anyone still has a Blackberry at all. Don't get me wrong, BES and BIS absolutely suck, but it still is the only widely accepted corporate solution for employees mobile devices.

Either way, good riddance. It shouldn't have taken this long.
 
2012-06-28 09:17:28 PM

The Angry Hand of God: You do realize that Blackberry servers and devices synced with Exchange, right? Android and iPhone allowed people to connect to Exchange servers, but Exchange wasn't specifically tailored to support these devices.

There still isn't any rock-solid management software for either Android or iPhone yet, which is the only reason that anyone still has a Blackberry at all. Don't get me wrong, BES and BIS absolutely suck, but it still is the only widely accepted corporate solution for employees mobile devices.

Either way, good riddance. It shouldn't have taken this long.


If Microsoft actually puts some marketing muscle behind it for once, I've got high hopes for Windows Phone 8 + Exchange in the coming years.
 
2012-06-28 09:26:41 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Do they actually have a corporate support program for the iPhones that includes hardware warranties beyond a year?


Yes. And they have other enterprise programs I was unaware of until today.
 
2012-06-28 09:29:22 PM

The Angry Hand of God: You do realize that Blackberry servers and devices synced with Exchange, right? Android and iPhone allowed people to connect to Exchange servers, but Exchange wasn't specifically tailored to support these devices.

There still isn't any rock-solid management software for either Android or iPhone yet, which is the only reason that anyone still has a Blackberry at all. Don't get me wrong, BES and BIS absolutely suck, but it still is the only widely accepted corporate solution for employees mobile devices.


Bullshiat. This hasn't been true for at least two years. There are at least 26 vendors that provide 'rock solid management' of iOS based devices. You can manage them EXACTLY like a blackberry. There are management tools for Android but the OS and hardware isn't there yet. Perhaps in another two years when the adoption rate is higher.

/we are running one.
 
2012-06-28 10:22:38 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: hurdboy: There's a shocker joke here somewhere. Shareholders are hoping they're not in it as deep as Palm?

I thought "RIM shocker" WAS the joke


Isn't a RIM shocker when you shove a table lamp up your ass and switch it on?
 
2012-06-28 10:39:14 PM

Fark Me To Tears: Isn't a RIM shocker when you shove a table lamp up your ass and switch it on?


Well, speaking for myself, I can only guess

/but that scenario certainly would seem to fulfill the basic description
 
2012-06-28 11:25:49 PM
isnt RIM the AOL of the cell phone world? i mean yeah a long time ago they were the gold standard. now there the AARP standard,
 
2012-06-28 11:30:21 PM
Actually, I'm interested in why HTC would pull out of Brazil. I can't find anything on the web justifying that, but I'm not familiar with that market segment.

Obviously, though, RIM has been destined for screwdom for several years.
 
2012-06-28 11:31:25 PM
Today my Garmin nuvi sat up in the seat next to me and said: "Hey big boy, you ain't seen nothin' yet."

I've never had a video conference on the inside of my polarized windshield before...at least not with the engine running, surround sound and a real time stock ticker running up the left side.

Go figure
 
2012-06-28 11:35:34 PM

shiate: as with any article headline that asks a question, the answer is 'no.' it just means that RIM can't compete, and are doomed.


I suspect the answer to the article's headline is a resounding "Yes, unless you're Samsung or Apple". Pretty much everyone else is struggling. RIM has imploded. Nokia's dead in the water. HTC's market share is half what it was a year ago. So who's left? LG? Sony? Motorola? Chinese brands? I read a quote on BGR or Engadget earlier this week that Apple and Samsung combine for over 90% of the profits in the smartphone market. All the other manufacturers are scrambling like ants for the remaining crumbs.
 
2012-06-28 11:57:01 PM
Interesting opinion piece. I don't think the market for handsets is completely saturated just yet- maybe in another year or two. But a huge financial crisis anywhere in the world will definetely bump that up. And when Apple and Samsung are the only ones making a profit on handset saies as it is...
 
2012-06-29 01:12:40 AM

gingerjet: The Angry Hand of God: You do realize that Blackberry servers and devices synced with Exchange, right? Android and iPhone allowed people to connect to Exchange servers, but Exchange wasn't specifically tailored to support these devices.

There still isn't any rock-solid management software for either Android or iPhone yet, which is the only reason that anyone still has a Blackberry at all. Don't get me wrong, BES and BIS absolutely suck, but it still is the only widely accepted corporate solution for employees mobile devices.

Bullshiat. This hasn't been true for at least two years. There are at least 26 vendors that provide 'rock solid management' of iOS based devices. You can manage them EXACTLY like a blackberry. There are management tools for Android but the OS and hardware isn't there yet. Perhaps in another two years when the adoption rate is higher.

/we are running one.


I had to sign over a ton of rights to connect my Galaxy S3 to my work's Enterprise Exchange server. It gave the ability to turn off all my services, control what apps I can use, wipe my phone, wipe my phone on to many failed login attempts, control my screen lock, control my password level, and so on. Am I missing anything that Blackberry did?
 
2012-06-29 01:47:00 AM

arcas: I suspect the answer to the article's headline is a resounding "Yes, unless you're Samsung or Apple". Pretty much everyone else is struggling. RIM has imploded. Nokia's dead in the water. HTC's market share is half what it was a year ago. So who's left? LG? Sony? Motorola? Chinese brands? I read a quote on BGR or Engadget earlier this week that Apple and Samsung combine for over 90% of the profits in the smartphone market. All the other manufacturers are scrambling like ants for the remaining crumbs.


Well, they make the best handsets. When I was looking at smartphones for my mother a couple months ago, and more recently for a friend, the options that were GOOD PHONES were:
Apple iPhone 4/4S
Samsung Galaxy S2/Nexus
Motorola Droid Razr/Razr Maxx

And even for freebie phones, the obvious choice was an old Samsung (that's been discontinued just recently). I've heard good things about the HTC One, but it's being severely out-buzzed by the Galaxy S3.

/HTC Evo 4G here. Like it, except for battery life, but it's feeling creaky after only a year
 
2012-06-29 03:25:11 AM
Should it not read,

DEAR PENTHOUSE,
Does RIM shocker imply wider handset market deterioration?
 
2012-06-29 04:15:22 AM
My spiffy new Samsung Galaxy 3 is the end of 11 years of using blackberries... and I'm not alone.

... now if only i can find someone to take this POS 64GB playbook off my hands.
...... nice unit/os, but holy crap there are zero apps for the damn thing.
 
2012-06-29 04:19:56 AM
They are laying off 5000 employees. Which is going to disappoint so many people because they keep asking if I can give them a RIM job.

I don't know why they think I work for them and can help them out.
 
2012-06-29 05:46:47 AM

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: My spiffy new Samsung Galaxy 3 is the end of 11 years of using blackberries... and I'm not alone.

... now if only i can find someone to take this POS 64GB playbook off my hands.
...... nice unit/os, but holy crap there are zero apps for the damn thing.


I believe CyanogenMod supports the Playbook now. Could make a decent Android tablet that way.
 
2012-06-29 08:51:29 AM
 
2012-06-29 09:18:17 AM

DemonEater: arcas: I suspect the answer to the article's headline is a resounding "Yes, unless you're Samsung or Apple". Pretty much everyone else is struggling. RIM has imploded. Nokia's dead in the water. HTC's market share is half what it was a year ago. So who's left? LG? Sony? Motorola? Chinese brands? I read a quote on BGR or Engadget earlier this week that Apple and Samsung combine for over 90% of the profits in the smartphone market. All the other manufacturers are scrambling like ants for the remaining crumbs.

Well, they make the best handsets. When I was looking at smartphones for my mother a couple months ago, and more recently for a friend, the options that were GOOD PHONES were:
Apple iPhone 4/4S
Samsung Galaxy S2/Nexus
Motorola Droid Razr/Razr Maxx

And even for freebie phones, the obvious choice was an old Samsung (that's been discontinued just recently). I've heard good things about the HTC One, but it's being severely out-buzzed by the Galaxy S3.

/HTC Evo 4G here. Like it, except for battery life, but it's feeling creaky after only a year


my HTC Desire went to shiat after just 16 months of gentle use. it wasn't dropped nor did it get wet. and yet the phone stopped taking a charge for no reason, replacing the battery, charger, and reinstalling the OS didn't help.

HTC offered to fix it, but i would have to pay for everything including shipping despite having a two year warranty on it.

I hates HTC.
 
2012-06-29 09:49:00 AM
This is awesome, especially since my company is making me take a blackberry next week.
 
2012-06-29 09:51:08 AM

eikni: gingerjet: The Angry Hand of God: You do realize that Blackberry servers and devices synced with Exchange, right? Android and iPhone allowed people to connect to Exchange servers, but Exchange wasn't specifically tailored to support these devices.

There still isn't any rock-solid management software for either Android or iPhone yet, which is the only reason that anyone still has a Blackberry at all. Don't get me wrong, BES and BIS absolutely suck, but it still is the only widely accepted corporate solution for employees mobile devices.

Bullshiat. This hasn't been true for at least two years. There are at least 26 vendors that provide 'rock solid management' of iOS based devices. You can manage them EXACTLY like a blackberry. There are management tools for Android but the OS and hardware isn't there yet. Perhaps in another two years when the adoption rate is higher.

/we are running one.

I had to sign over a ton of rights to connect my Galaxy S3 to my work's Enterprise Exchange server. It gave the ability to turn off all my services, control what apps I can use, wipe my phone, wipe my phone on to many failed login attempts, control my screen lock, control my password level, and so on. Am I missing anything that Blackberry did?


Yes, but I would bet 90% of the companies out there did not use the feature sets you are missing. A BES could control a whole lot more than what native Exchange Active Sync can. The problem is, no one really used those anyway. Most companies use a BES just as Active Sync 2007/2010 work now. Secure the handset and push Mail/Calendar and Contacts.

Now there are some companies that are doing a good job expanding on that. The fact the Android and iOS app development is miles ahead of the crap that was available on a blackberry, company 'stores' to grab internal only applications will be come more common.

Once government and other high security organizations have their requirements for strong encryption satistifed and proven, RIM is in for even more hurt.
 
2012-06-29 09:52:16 AM

DemonEater: arcas: I suspect the answer to the article's headline is a resounding "Yes, unless you're Samsung or Apple". Pretty much everyone else is struggling. RIM has imploded. Nokia's dead in the water. HTC's market share is half what it was a year ago. So who's left? LG? Sony? Motorola? Chinese brands? I read a quote on BGR or Engadget earlier this week that Apple and Samsung combine for over 90% of the profits in the smartphone market. All the other manufacturers are scrambling like ants for the remaining crumbs.

Well, they make the best handsets. When I was looking at smartphones for my mother a couple months ago, and more recently for a friend, the options that were GOOD PHONES were:
Apple iPhone 4/4S
Samsung Galaxy S2/Nexus
Motorola Droid Razr/Razr Maxx

And even for freebie phones, the obvious choice was an old Samsung (that's been discontinued just recently). I've heard good things about the HTC One, but it's being severely out-buzzed by the Galaxy S3.

/HTC Evo 4G here. Like it, except for battery life, but it's feeling creaky after only a year


And that's a shame. HTC just plain makes better phones than Samsung. Every Samsung phone I've ever used, even going back to flip phones, just felt cheap and plasticky. My G2, OTOH, has been a joy.
 
2012-06-29 10:52:43 AM
The G2 is better than the complete pile that the G1 was. My wife had the G1, and it would eat SIM cards every 3 months. When it did so you couldn't make any calls, even to 911.

I'm sure Microsoft will manage to screw up the Windows Phone 8.
 
2012-06-29 11:32:24 AM

Rent Party: RIM has put it's entire future onto BlackBerry 10, and just announced another delay. They haven't put *anything* compelling into the market in going on half a decade.

They'll hit $6 a share by next Wednesday.


I don't see why they don't just switch to Android phones. They can be the "keyboard" and "security" brand and Samsung can be the "touchscreen" and "consumer cool" brand.

Eventually they can merge.
 
2012-06-29 11:37:59 AM

Opiate of the Lasses: It is somewhat ridiculous how bad RIM screwed the pooch. We have a small (single digit employees) company, and a simple little Exchange server in our closet. We looked into getting Blackberries back in 08 and realized they wanted you to pay to use BES on top of that. So we said fark that, and everyone just uses Exchange to sync their respective personal smartphone to our server. Haven't looked back.

RIM should have shamelessly copied the iPhone's good features while adding better ones, just like Google did.

/loving my Nexus S
//original Android prototype looked like this. *shudder*


LG Prada says hi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada

Apple and Google copied LG.
 
2012-06-29 11:40:54 AM

The Angry Hand of God: smeag0l: Microsoft Exchange was the torpedo that help sink RIM. Corporate drones once chained to Blackberry Enterprise Server were free to buy Android & iPhones.

You do realize that Blackberry servers and devices synced with Exchange, right? Android and iPhone allowed people to connect to Exchange servers, but Exchange wasn't specifically tailored to support these devices.

There still isn't any rock-solid management software for either Android or iPhone yet, which is the only reason that anyone still has a Blackberry at all. Don't get me wrong, BES and BIS absolutely suck, but it still is the only widely accepted corporate solution for employees mobile devices.

Either way, good riddance. It shouldn't have taken this long.


The Samsung Galaxy S3 has a "business version" that has the ability to put enterprise network rules/policies on the phones.
 
2012-06-29 11:44:41 AM

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: My spiffy new Samsung Galaxy 3 is the end of 11 years of using blackberries... and I'm not alone.

... now if only i can find someone to take this POS 64GB playbook off my hands.
...... nice unit/os, but holy crap there are zero apps for the damn thing.


No cyanogen mod for it?
 
2012-06-29 12:44:49 PM

Bullseyed: Rent Party: RIM has put it's entire future onto BlackBerry 10, and just announced another delay. They haven't put *anything* compelling into the market in going on half a decade.

They'll hit $6 a share by next Wednesday.

I don't see why they don't just switch to Android phones. They can be the "keyboard" and "security" brand and Samsung can be the "touchscreen" and "consumer cool" brand.

Eventually they can merge.


Well, that's a strategy, but you're forgoing the "the company is run and operated by a large number of fairy princesses that insist everything they do is magical and that the problem isn't a growing gap in technology or innovation but that the masses just don't get how magical and awesome they really are so blame marketing" factor.

Overcome that, and you might have a workable plan.

Volume today is huge, and it looks like they might hit $6 on opening on Monday.
 
2012-06-29 12:55:24 PM

Zavulon: WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: My spiffy new Samsung Galaxy 3 is the end of 11 years of using blackberries... and I'm not alone.

... now if only i can find someone to take this POS 64GB playbook off my hands.
...... nice unit/os, but holy crap there are zero apps for the damn thing.

I believe CyanogenMod supports the Playbook now. Could make a decent Android tablet that way.


Really? Haven't seen anything lately
 
2012-06-30 12:33:06 PM

Zavulon: WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: My spiffy new Samsung Galaxy 3 is the end of 11 years of using blackberries... and I'm not alone.

... now if only i can find someone to take this POS 64GB playbook off my hands.
...... nice unit/os, but holy crap there are zero apps for the damn thing.

I believe CyanogenMod supports the Playbook now. Could make a decent Android tablet that way.


Locked bootloader, I doubt it's ever getting anything other than PBOS, -possibly- BB10, if it ever happens.
 
2012-06-30 01:23:22 PM

ekdikeo4: Zavulon: WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: My spiffy new Samsung Galaxy 3 is the end of 11 years of using blackberries... and I'm not alone.

... now if only i can find someone to take this POS 64GB playbook off my hands.
...... nice unit/os, but holy crap there are zero apps for the damn thing.

I believe CyanogenMod supports the Playbook now. Could make a decent Android tablet that way.

Locked bootloader, I doubt it's ever getting anything other than PBOS, -possibly- BB10, if it ever happens.


Hmm, maybe I'm thinking of something else.
 
2012-06-30 01:30:38 PM
Aha! I was thinking of the HP Touchpad. However, if you just want more apps, this may help:

http://www.redmondpie.com/install-and roid-market-on-blackberry-playbo o k-how-to-tutorial/
 
2012-06-30 03:29:29 PM
In Canada (or at least in and around the Toronto region) Blackberries are still immensely popular. Of the people I see with smartphones, it is an even split between iPhones and Blackberries, with Androids picking up the leftovers.
 
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