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(US Supreme Court) NewsFlash Supreme Court rules that Obamacare is constitutional. The bland mask that is Mitt Romney's face twitches with something called "emotion"   ( supremecourt.gov) divider line
    More: NewsFlash, obamacare, supreme courts, Mitt Romney, supreme court ruling  
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14960 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jun 2012 at 10:27 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2012-06-28 10:29:34 AM  
23 votes:
Tomorrow's headline: "Mitt Romney says Obamacare was his idea from the beginning."
2012-06-28 10:31:11 AM  
22 votes:
What's best about this is the wingnuts planned the word Obamacare to be a derogatory term but now it will live for decades as a term giving a Democrat credit for something that they'll never be able to get rid of because people would go ape about it.
2012-06-28 11:57:05 AM  
16 votes:

24.media.tumblr.comView Full Size

2012-06-28 11:18:49 AM  
13 votes:
Let me tell a story about why this is a good thing: 15 years ago my mother got cancer. She fought hard and won. Complete remission/surgery to remove lumps. Immediately after her surgery she was dropped from her insurance. Following her cancer, she continued to work (ran her own restaurant) but was not able to purchase health insurance. She tried everywhere, was willing to pay huge sums of money, but not a single insurer would give her a plan due to "preexisting conditions." 3 years ago she started to recognize the signs that something was wrong. She went for a blood test and boom, she had cancer again, but couldn't get it treated. Her only option was disability, something she had avoided last time because she wanted to continue to work. It took 2 years for her to get disability by that time her previously treatable cancer had become stage 4 terminal cancer. She is continuing to fight, about to start her 4th round of chemo/radiation. If she was able to get insurance before this happened not only would there be a good chance they could have cured it, but it would have been less expensive for the entire health care system. I'm telling that story to every idiot that says something stupid about the ruling today.
2012-06-28 10:31:05 AM  
13 votes:
Ok, look. This is simple.

If someone can't afford to stay competitive, why do they deserve to compete?

If someone can't afford to keep working, why do they deserve to work?

If someone can't afford to stay healthy, why do they deserve health?

If someone can't afford to stay alive, why do they deserve to live?

You get what you pay for. If you can't afford to pay, well... I suppose it's polite to pretend that it was nice knowing you, but you aren't much use anymore, are you?

And if you disagree with all of the above statements, great! Politics takes money. If someone can't afford a lobbyist or a campaign, why do they deserve to have an opinion?
2012-06-28 11:27:27 AM  
12 votes:

Lernaeus: /looking forward to more "suck it" kindness and compassion from the left today


Keep hitting us with bricks and you expect hugs and kisses in return? fark you in the ass sideways with a screwdriver. How's that for kindness and compassion? Call us un-American, traitors, communists, and every other term you can think of to denigrate us? We're soldiers, nurses, police officers, emergency management officials and non-profit child welfare workers - and that's just in my damn immediate family.

WE'RE the ones expected to turn the other cheek? fark you. Your side clings to Jesus so much, where's the "turning of the cheek" that YOU'RE supposed to be so famous for? (also, didn't he have something to say about helping those less fortunate?)

Our kindness and compassion is reserved for those that actually deserve it.
2012-06-28 12:15:47 PM  
11 votes:
macmeisters.comView Full Size
2012-06-28 10:32:36 AM  
11 votes:

TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.


This is America. If you can't support our President in a time of war you can just leave.
2012-06-28 10:30:51 AM  
11 votes:
Awwww. I was hoping for single payer during my lifetime.
2012-06-28 12:07:53 PM  
9 votes:
I'm an Australian, my dad fell off his bicycle a few months ago and was in hospital for two months, ICU for a week and a brain injury recovery ward for six weeks. He had about four surgeries on his brain over that time, multiple scans and several operations on his broken bones as well as a dedicated nurse on hand while we was in ICU.
Total cost to my family? $400 in parking costs at the hospital carpark(my mum drove herself to the hospital daily, I took a bus) and probably $80 in total from the Subway they had downstairs.

My dad is home now, has a scan once a month so far and is going well. The scans are free.
The airfares of family members coming to check up on him was more expensive than the cost of actually being in hospital to us. The final bill for his time there would have been in the tens of thousands if we were in the US.

Socialised medicine farking rocks.
2012-06-28 10:45:47 AM  
9 votes:
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


I owe you an apology...After upholding Citizens united, I thought that you were a partisan hack. I thought you would vote party lines.

While I may disagree with you on alot of things, you have restored my faith in the court, which had been shaken as of late.
2012-06-28 10:45:03 AM  
9 votes:
Only in America will so many people get their panties in a bunch over something that will help so many in need.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-06-28 10:34:59 AM  
9 votes:

TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.


Yes, he has taken away our right to die from treatable ailments. The horror. The horror.
2012-06-28 10:40:56 AM  
8 votes:
Three things:

1) Can we finally put to rest the notion that the Supreme Court was rigged for Republican initiatives? It's tiresome, and in reality the butthurt that usually comes from SCOTUS decisions is because it's your particular ox that's being gored, not because they're ideologically fixed and conspiring to fark Democratic initiatives.

2) The Congress could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by simply calling it what it is, a tax. It was always a tax, and calling it something else was always a big charade. We need to get over this tax-averse attitude we have in this country if we wish to maintain any semblance of the standard of living we currently have. We can't continue to live off of other peoples' largesse for much longer.

3) Congratulations to Barack Obama on his reelection. This essentially sealed the deal, the rest is just pro forma screaming.
2012-06-28 10:33:43 AM  
8 votes:
Weird, Obama stated over and over this is not a tax. Now he argues it is.

At least they shot down the forced Medicaid expansion. That will throw a big wrench into his plans. 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes. Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you. Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you. Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Now liberals, if we get a Republican advantage, how about we implement a tax on the unemployed? No job? Fine, pay a tax. I know you think you just won, but you just screwed everyone equally with another erosion of individual rights.
2012-06-28 11:03:14 AM  
7 votes:

WombatControl: From now on, it's not "ObamaCare." It's the "Obama Health Care Tax". Let's have the President own his massive tax hike right through to November.


Given what this "tax" pays for, a lot of people might not object to paying for it. If it saves their lives, if it allows them to have medical coverage despite a pre-existing condition, if it actually makes it easier to get health care, then the benefits will outweigh the tax increase.

Bear in mind, if you already have coverage, this "tax" doesn't affect you. And I believe that there will be assistance for those who can't afford it.

So yes, it's a tax. Much like the taxes America paid so we could go fight the World Wars. Sometimes we have to pay for things that are necessary, and sometimes it means our taxes go up. I realize that the idea of actually raising taxes so we pay for a war ourselves is a bit of an anathema to conservatives these days, they'd rather borrow money from Communist China, but in the old days, taxes weren't seen as evil. They were seen as paying for America, because America was worth paying for.
2012-06-28 10:59:41 AM  
7 votes:
I'm still always shocked by how ridiculously stupid and uninformed most Americans are about their own health care.

A question: Would you tell the hospital to turn away someone dying because they couldn't pay?

If you answered yes, you're a sociopath. Seek help.

If you answered no, you believe in socialized medicine. Now we're just talking degrees of it. The American government spends more on health care than any other country in the world (per capita). Then of course you all have to pay for health insurance too. So fully socialized medicine would allow lowering taxes.
2012-06-28 10:32:42 AM  
7 votes:
Booyah!

I'm STUNNED.

Would trade mandate for public option any day.
2012-06-28 10:32:18 AM  
7 votes:
Man, this sucks. I figured this would go down, then the public works departments, then the streets and sidewalks, then the cops and firemen, then the teachers, then the schools.
Keep your unconstitutional programs away from me, you damn dirty apes! Damn you all straight to Hell!
2012-06-28 02:08:10 PM  
6 votes:
ObamaCare - Explain It Like I'm Five by captainpixystick

Bob: Hi, insurance company. I'd like to buy some health insurance.

Insurance company: No. You had cancer when you were 3 years old, and the cancer could come back. We're not selling you health insurance.

Bob: It's not my fault I got cancer when I was three! Besides, that was years ago!

Insurance company: If we sell insurance to you, we'll probably lose money, and we're not doing it.

Bob: But I need insurance more than anyone! My cancer might come back!

Insurance company: We don't care. We're not selling you insurance.

Obama: Hey, that's totally not fair. Bob is right, he does need insurance! Sell Bob some insurance.

Insurance company: If we have to, I guess.

Mary: This is cool. Obama said the insurance company has to sell insurance to anyone who needs it.

Sam: Hey, I have an idea. I'm going to stop paying for health insurance. If I get sick, I can always go buy some insurance then. The insurance company won't be able to say no, because Obama's told them they have to sell it to anyone who needs it!

Dave: That's a great idea! I'm not paying for health insurance either, at least not until I get sick.

Insurance company: Hey! If everyone stops paying for insurance, we'll go bankrupt!

Obama: Oh come on Sam and Dave, that's not fair either.

Dave: I don't care. It saves me money.

Obama:(Facepalm) Oh for god's sake. Sam, Dave, you have to keep paying for health insurance, and not wait until you're sick. You too, Mary and Bob.

Mary:But I'm broke! I can't buy insurance! I just don't have any money.

Obama: Mary, show me your piggy bank.

(Mary Breaks it Open)

Obama: Oh, wow, you really are broke. Ok, tell you what. You still have to buy insurance, but I'll help you pay 95% of the cost.

Mary: Thank you!

Obama: I need an aspirin.

Insurance company: We're not paying for that aspirin.

**FLASHBACK after credits**:

All the People:
Wait! Won't this just mean we all give money to the companies and they keep it all?

Obama: No, they will be required to spend 85% of what they get paid in premiums on actual healthcare.

Cue: I got this.jpg

Now Comic Form!
2012-06-28 11:00:53 AM  
6 votes:

Thunderpipes: RolandGunner: Well, in the long run it's the best possible outcome if the law was going to be upheld. By changing the mandate penalty to a tax and, ruling out the commerce clause justification, the bill is upheld without issuing a blanket authorization for the federal government to force the purchase of goods and services.

But it just did. If Obama wants you to do something, you do it, or the feds tax you. That is force. Just wait until Pubs in the states start pushing something you don't like and enforce it with a tax..... Will you like it then?


They already use my taxes to fight wars I don't agree with, and to give bailouts to failing companies. How about taxes actually being used for something useful once?
2012-06-28 10:57:20 AM  
6 votes:

Joe Blowme: Lets look at al the awsome new and increased taxes in this fil
Taxes that took effect in 2010:
2. Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113
.



Oh comeon, don't be such a horrible pied piper. Could you please give us an example of such a legal tax deduction that is now no longer allowed?

Because I can.

Let's say that I want to give 10,000,000 to my spoiled child, without paying gratuitous transfer taxes. So I create a corporation and issue 20,000,000 in stocks. I've put 20,000,000 into this corporation.l I give B-stocks, which have no control and cannot vote, valued at 10,000,000 to my lazy child. BUT WAIT! The IRS (used to) give me a discount. Since those b-shares can't vote, they get a discount. And since they can't control the company, they get ANOTHER discount. So that 10,000,000 only appears to be 5,000,000. So I'm only taxed on 5,000,000 dollars.

Of course, all of this is unnecessary, as this year you can transfer up to 13,000,000 gratuitously WITHOUT ANY FREAKING TAXES. But next year that goes away. These legal tax deductions you love so much are nothing more than a vehicle for rich people to transfer money without paying the requisite taxes, keeping them rich and us poor.

So go ahead, pied piper. Use a two sentence paragraph to get the plebians pissed off over another "tax hike." Don't even bother explaining what it is, how it will work, or any of that jazz. Which is a right shame, because those tax deductions are freaking amazingly inventive and genius.
2012-06-28 10:50:21 AM  
6 votes:
On a more serious note, I'm kinda irritated by how all the reporting is told from a political perspective rather than a constitutional one. Why the discussion devolves to another commentary on the political horse race (how it benefits Obama, Roberts sides w/ the libs) rather than stay focused on the effects of the law & the constitutional arguments underpinning the opinion & dissent is just another example of how the media dumb themselves down.
2012-06-28 10:48:01 AM  
6 votes:

Epicedion: Free Republic post headings:

Will John Roberts be remembered in history the same as Benedict Arnold?

Today is The Day U.S. Citizens Became Slaves of Their Government

ObamaCare ruling means Americans hostage to 70 years of Supreme Court madness


Only in America, where ensuring that citizens have health care is seen as tyranny.

You people are well and truly farked.
2012-06-28 10:36:21 AM  
6 votes:
fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.netView Full Size
2012-06-28 10:34:45 AM  
6 votes:

SphericalTime: Awwww. I was hoping for single payer during my lifetime.


I wouldn't rule it out. Single payer is going to be the reform for the reform.
FZ6
2012-06-28 10:32:53 AM  
6 votes:
What's really sad is that rather than look at whether or not this thing is actually good or bad, people are more concerned about the democrat vs republican aspect. Yep - that always goes well...
2012-06-28 10:31:45 AM  
6 votes:

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: John Roberts siding with the left wing of the court... MY GOD! THE MAYANS WERE RIGHT!


Roberts is a conservative but he tends to stick within the letter of the law of the Constitution, unlike Scalia and Thomas who like to legislate from the bench. Despite the pessimism, when I heard 19/20 constitutional scholars thought Obamacare is constitutional, I had a feeling it would survive.
2012-06-28 10:25:38 AM  
6 votes:
So does this or does this not mean I have to wait in the ER for 3 hours because its filled with non-insured people who have the flu or a splinter?
2012-06-28 10:11:44 AM  
6 votes:
John Roberts siding with the left wing of the court... MY GOD! THE MAYANS WERE RIGHT!
2012-06-28 12:25:48 PM  
5 votes:
Hell of a thread here.

I'm happy and sad. Happy because, well, honestly, f*ck the haters. Sad because I think we could have done so much better. Open medicare to everyone. Single payer IS the future.

What I don't get is why Republicans are SO angry. Every day you see people on here making arguments that the poor don't pay enough in taxes. Well, here's a tax they have to pay if they don't get health insurance. Here's your "skin in the game." The rich won't be paying this, they have health insurance. This falls on the 50% of the country or so you claim pay no taxes. This is something you want. Now WTF are you so angry about?
2012-06-28 12:14:46 PM  
5 votes:
Everyone needs it, everyone uses it eventually, everyone should pay for it.

/Single-payer is still smarter, but so is the metric system
2012-06-28 11:29:33 AM  
5 votes:

WombatControl: bdub77: Doesn't matter. Americans got health care. This is a win for the American people, not just Obama. Obama will now go down as the first president who got Americans health care. His legacy in that regard, not to mention countless other things he's done as president, will solidify him as one of the greats.

And yes I expect him to fully whip Romney's ass in November.

WHISKY. TANGO. FOXTROT.

Really? Now Americans have health care? You mean no one in this country had health care prior to Obama? Is this what you really think?

Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.

Nothing is free. Health care is not free, and it can't be made free by government fiat. If the liberals got their way we'd have a system in which everyone but the ultra rich who could afford private insurace (or black-market care) is stuck waiting in lines for treatments they may never get.

If the statists got their way and we magically had an NHS-style system in the United States there would be riots in the streets because Americans do not take kindly to the government dictating to them what they can and cannot have. At least those Americans who still believe in the spirit of this nation's Founding, anyway.


What in the name of holy balls are you talking about? The NHS in the UK goes as far as to fly patiets with extremely rare conditions to specialist centres abroad, and covers everything.

Good luck getting an insurance company to do that. They're more likely to say that your tumour was growing when you started your insurance, so go die under a bridge.

I know of a child personally that was sent to a paediatric Proton centre in Jacksonville (she lives in Newcastle, England). The NHS even covered room and board for her parents in Florida.


So take your wacky lies and stick them right up your chuff-pipe.
2012-06-28 11:27:41 AM  
5 votes:

PanicMan: My coworker just said "they can't do that because the founding fathers wrote the constitution based on the old testimate". Also, this is the end of the country.


Now would be a good time for the meteor to kill us all.

I'm just glad my kids aren't going to be kicked off of my insurance. I feel like a big weight has been taken off of my shoulders.

But I guess I'm also glad that there are millions of people out there that won't have to worry about the dreaded "pre-existing conditions" clause again.

And I'm glad that women won't be charged more for insurance than men again.

So yeah, I guess I'm glad for a lot of things about this.
2012-06-28 11:19:29 AM  
5 votes:
Why was this even a question? The government has required me to pay for Medicare for like the last 45 years!
2012-06-28 10:43:36 AM  
5 votes:
Not surprising.

First SCOTUS ruled that the state can seize your property and turn it over to a corporation of its choosing.

Then it ruled that corporations can spend unlimited money to influence the political process.

Now it has ruled that the state can force you to buy a product from a corporation of its choosing.

If you object to any of this, there is a law on the books (which no one has "standing" to challenge) which allows the state to declare you a "terrorist" based on secret evidence that you are not allowed to see, and based on this to subject you to indefinite detention and/or extra-judicial execution.

Sounds like everything is in place now.
2012-06-28 10:39:23 AM  
5 votes:

Thunderpipes: Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes. Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you. Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you. Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.


photos.imageevent.comView Full Size
2012-06-28 10:37:59 AM  
5 votes:
Yay! The United States enters the mid-twentieth century!
2012-06-28 10:37:28 AM  
5 votes:
Roberts put his legacy and integrity over politics. Bravo.
2012-06-28 10:33:37 AM  
5 votes:
Well, in the long run it's the best possible outcome if the law was going to be upheld. By changing the mandate penalty to a tax and, ruling out the commerce clause justification, the bill is upheld without issuing a blanket authorization for the federal government to force the purchase of goods and services.
2012-06-28 10:32:30 AM  
5 votes:
I was kind of hoping that they would strike it down and we'd get a true public option out of it, but this is probably for the best. Baby steps.
2012-06-28 10:32:16 AM  
5 votes:

AmazinTim: NowhereMon: Suck it cons, suck it long and hard

You must mean suck it everyone, now we'll never fix health care. We'll just keep patching scabby band-aids onto the issue, just like this bill.


I was really hoping it would get struck down, then force a complete overhaul single-payer plan. Make health insurance companies obsolete completely.

Oh well. Maybe in a few decades we can join the rest of the civilized world.
2012-06-28 10:30:30 AM  
5 votes:
Silver lining based on SCOTUSBlog: The mandate was not a legit use of the commerce clause, but it was OK as a tax.

So yes, Obama and the Democrats did, in fact, raise taxes on the middle class. After repeatedly promising not to.
2012-06-28 10:30:05 AM  
5 votes:

TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.


Feel free to leave! Take your bridge with you!
2012-06-28 10:23:30 AM  
5 votes:

Local Man: Why does CNN have "Mandate Struck Down" tattooed on their front page...?

/which news agency has reading comprehension issues?!?


Because it was, technically. It cannot be upheld as lawful to force someone to buy insurance. But it can be upheld as a tax to encourage people to buy insurance
2012-06-28 10:22:16 AM  
5 votes:
'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. '

Interesting decision.
2012-06-28 10:18:54 AM  
5 votes:
I'm amazed it was Roberts. That's just something I was not expecting.

So goddamn it I guess we now have to care about our fellow man like Jesus said?!
2012-06-28 01:08:36 PM  
4 votes:

SouthernFriedYankee: The end zone dancing is very much misplaced. The powerful will avoid shouldering any additional burden, while the powerless will not be able to do so. It's probably good news for welfare riders, but for the working poor it's going to be a disaster, economically. So much for hiring picking up. So much for economic recovery.

But hey, your team won, right? And that's all that matters.

Congrats.


Are you always this dense?

The 'working poor' don't make enough income to have to buy insurance under ACA.

As a small business owner, I base hiring decisions on sales, not overhead. Claims that ACA will stifle hiring are BS.

I and every other tax-paying American is already paying for health care for the poor and working poor -- the ACA won't change that one iota.

What WILL happen is that some 30+ million more Americans will start paying into the health care money pool, possibly reducing actual costs on average, but certainly helping offset current budget deficits.

"My side" didn't win...America won.
2012-06-28 12:03:05 PM  
4 votes:
img836.imageshack.usView Full Size
Boe [TotalFark] [BareFark]
2012-06-28 11:46:45 AM  
4 votes:

MasterThief: Silver lining based on SCOTUSBlog: The mandate was not a legit use of the commerce clause, but it was OK as a tax.

So yes, Obama and the Democrats did, in fact, raise taxes on the middle class. After repeatedly promising not to.


As a member of the middle class, I'd like to say...

imokwiththis.jpg

The people who are ok with allowing poor people to go without healthcare and middle class people to go bankrupt in exchange for not dying from cancer are Evil. Mother. Farkers.
2012-06-28 11:15:02 AM  
4 votes:

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Sad how many people here are happy, not because the court ruling was good, but just because the Republicans "lost".

You guys really need to get a life.


The country still hasn't recovered from the Republican wins of the 2000's. I think we're entitled to cheer when they stumble, particularly considering that they were trying to declare their own health care plan unconstitutional just because a Democrat implemented it.
2012-06-28 11:05:12 AM  
4 votes:

Drexl's Eye: Congrats guys!

/Canadian


This. I would like to congratulate all Americans on this reform. You may not deserve a single-payer health care system but you deserve a hybrid/band-aid version of until you realize that you can do better.

/also Canadian
2012-06-28 11:02:31 AM  
4 votes:
All you conservative lunatics trying to spin this as bad for Obama and the Dems just know this: now, in order to get rid of the advances from HCR, the GOP will have to

1) Win the Pres election (will not happen)
2) Keep the house (okay, you got one probably)
3) Take the Senate (maybe)

Regardless, the Dems in the Senate can just filibusterer for years if they want to and nothing will happen that will overturn HCR.

It's over, you lost. The people won.
2012-06-28 10:56:00 AM  
4 votes:
Poor America. Maybe now your babies will survive at rates higher than Honduras and your people will live longer than those in Egypt.
2012-06-28 10:49:01 AM  
4 votes:
Congratulations to Governor Romney on the Supreme Court upholding the Constitutionality of his health care law!
2012-06-28 10:40:14 AM  
4 votes:

NowhereMon: LOL free republic is melting down


Awesome. So farking awesome.

Maybe Obama won't spike the football, but I will.

*spikes it*

FU John Boehner and the Tea Party retards.

/Yeah I'll gloat about it
//Why?
///Because the RW in this country are filled with mental midgets
///And...fark you, that's why!
2012-06-28 10:39:12 AM  
4 votes:

Robert1966: Yay! The United States enters the mid-twentieth century!


No kidding. I'm still amazed it's such a big farking deal and that everyone being allowed healthcare, regardless of income or social class, is something that people are actually fighting against.

That being said, I am so happy for the US. Congratulations you guys!
2012-06-28 10:36:21 AM  
4 votes:
i.qkme.meView Full Size
2012-06-28 10:36:09 AM  
4 votes:
The best part is the sweet sweet tears of the ... people who will benefit from this law?

oh irony.
2012-06-28 10:35:50 AM  
4 votes:
To all who opposed Obamacare: how does it feel to be on the wrong side of history yet again?
2012-06-28 10:33:53 AM  
4 votes:
It's a trap! tax!
2012-06-28 10:31:25 AM  
4 votes:

Fox News is PISSED



"see, see, see what happens when you let libruls in the court?!?! see!!??"

I love that the deciding vote was placed by a man Republicans put on the court. Just sweet sweet irony.
2012-06-28 10:30:20 AM  
4 votes:
Congrats guys!

/Canadian
2012-06-28 10:29:45 AM  
4 votes:

TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.


I would have gone with ALL CAPS for added impact.
2012-06-28 10:29:42 AM  
4 votes:
My coworker just said "they can't do that because the founding fathers wrote the constitution based on the old testimate". Also, this is the end of the country.
2012-06-28 10:22:48 AM  
4 votes:
I doubt Mitt actually gives a crap one way or another.
2012-06-28 10:22:29 AM  
4 votes:
This is a surprise. I honestly expected the 6-3 conservative court to rule more in favor of "fark the poors because they smell"
2012-06-28 02:37:37 PM  
3 votes:

shortymac: /American living in Canada
//Single payer health care isn't scary


As an American living in America under a single payer system most of my life (military), I strongly agree with you. I have never lost a moment of sleep over how to pay for meds or medical treatment for me or my family.

People who whine about single-payer only do so because they've never lived under it.
2012-06-28 01:12:53 PM  
3 votes:

SouthernFriedYankee: CPennypacker: SouthernFriedYankee: The end zone dancing is very much misplaced. The powerful will avoid shouldering any additional burden, while the powerless will not be able to do so. It's probably good news for welfare riders, but for the working poor it's going to be a disaster, economically. So much for hiring picking up. So much for economic recovery.

But hey, your team won, right? And that's all that matters.

Congrats.

Sounds like your team lost.

We all lost today. The oligarchs, specifically the insurance industry, are the only ones who won, which is not surprising, since they wrote the damn thing. Every time Congress ups the tax, they'll raise their rates accordingly. They've all got to be jizzing themselves right now.

Pyrrhic victory, folks. Believe it.


My 25 year old sister who can't get a job because of the NYS teacher hiring freeze and can stay on our parents' insurance won.

My neice with athsma who would have been turned down for insurance won.

Who lost? Are they fat rich people? Fark 'em.
2012-06-28 12:23:07 PM  
3 votes:
Obama: "It should be pretty clear that I didn't do this because it's good politics. I did it because it's good for the country."
2012-06-28 12:16:38 PM  
3 votes:

Actor_au: I'm an Australian, my dad fell off his bicycle a few months ago and was in hospital for two months, ICU for a week and a brain injury recovery ward for six weeks.... The final bill for his time there would have been in the tens of thousands if we were in the US.


The final bill in the US would probably have been close to a half million dollars. And about 20% percent of that, or nearly a hundred thousand dollars, would have been spent on bookkeeping and paperwork to keep track of the bills.
2012-06-28 12:15:09 PM  
3 votes:

Mathematics of Wonton Burrito Meals: cameroncrazy1984: Some nutball congressman called it the largest tax increase on the poor and middle class in American history. Notwithstanding the fact that the poor already get healthcare and likely will not be taxed.

Wait, the poor already get healthcare? Then why did we need to pass Obamacare?


Because people get it irresponsibly by going to the ER and saying their name's Mister John Madeupname. Those charges get passed on to you, and (of course) there's all the paper shuffling that results in having millions of people do this. Which eventually helps this happen.

economicpopulist.orgView Full Size
2012-06-28 12:09:45 PM  
3 votes:

lousyskater: I didn't really care which way this went, but man I need to get some popcorn for this one. DIS GONNA BE GOOD.


i1089.photobucket.comView Full Size


Here.

I made enough for everyone.

: )
2012-06-28 12:05:24 PM  
3 votes:
To all the whiny conservatives talking about how this is THE TAX INCREASE OBAMA PROMISED HE'D NEVER DO!!!, I have to ask you...

Do you understand that generally liberals and Democrats don't see taxes as fundamentally the worst possible thing ever? That, of all the promises that could be broken, this one broken in this way really isn't that troubling? That we understand we're part of a society, and that we'll get a greater benefit through the effects of the law and the mandate than we would through NO TAXES AGAIN EVER? That we don't worship Grover Norquist, and that we realize that there are more important things out there, like public health and health insurance and health care reform to improve the massive privatized sinkhole it has become in the last few decades?
2012-06-28 12:00:49 PM  
3 votes:
Meh. We survived in Massachusetts after "Romneycare". The country will go on after "Obamacare".

Seriously, what's the big deal? Don't want insurance? Pay the tax! You are mandated to have homeowners/car/flood insurance, so what's wrong with health insurance?

In all honestly, when the Romney got his health insurance mandate passed in MA, I kinda freaked for a bit (b/c I had been working temp jobs which did not offer health insurance), but then realized I was just going to get back a little less when it came to my state tax refund. I eventually got a job where health insurance was offered and ended up bringing in less per year b/c the health insurance was more expensive than paying the tax. I was ok with that, b/c I would rather have health insurance than not.

Is it perfect? No. But will it eventually work itself out? Yes. And I truly believe that the pros outweigh the cons on this.
2012-06-28 12:00:26 PM  
3 votes:
Either way this could have gone, my conservative in-laws would have been insufferable. At least with this outcome, I can smile to myself about their butthurt.

If only we had some kind of meaningful healthcare reform a couple of decades ago, I think my "uninsurable" sister would still be alive today.

/haz a bit of the sad now
2012-06-28 11:52:42 AM  
3 votes:

The_Sponge: Here's the difference:

You don't have to drive a car.


You don't have to live.

No, seriously, you don't.
2012-06-28 11:48:55 AM  
3 votes:
Sometimes I love my country. SCOTUS upholding the Affordable Care Act is one of those time. Other times, I hate my country. Seeing people pissing their shorts because they can't leave people to die poor in the streets is one of those times.
2012-06-28 11:27:17 AM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: randomjsa: So all the people who thought that it being struck down would be the best thing ever for Obama are now going "holy crap now we're in trouble"?

which universe are you posting from anyway? do they have hot dogs in that universe?


They'll hammer on the "He raised your taxes" and the 85% of Americans that have health insurance already will say, "No he didn't, he raised someone else's taxes, not mine, and that's A-OK"
2012-06-28 11:22:18 AM  
3 votes:
Because the original was asked to leave, I'll step in for the day.

img864.imageshack.usView Full Size


Impeach Roberts.

*

Did Roberts wake up next to a horse head one morning?

*

America is gone.
The most horrendous monster of a law that the world has ever seen has now been cemented into place.
There may still be a nation named America but we can now kiss goodbye to prosperity as we used to know it.
Minimum 16% extra tax, and that's just for starters.
If only "the poor" would be asked to pay their fair share, but I suspect that will never happen.
Everybody pays for everyone else = "the rich" (anybody who pays taxes) pays for everyone who don't.
In order to "save" 30 million uninsured (allegedly) the other 280 million are now to be strangled, slowly.

*

Look on the bright side.

At least we can now run ads until the election saying Obama and the Democrats have imposed the largest tax increase in American history.

They can now run ads of death panels.

They can now run ads of legislation that will increase premiums.

They can now Throw Grandma off the cliff and blame the Democrats.

*

We are all now officially slaves owned by and for the U.S. Federal Government.

*

This just in on the News Wires:

"Supreme Court Consumes Bath Salts and in Zombie-Like Attack Eat the Constitution".


Anyone who has health care with an employer just lost it today. Your employer will pay the fine and you will be dumped into the health care pool. Your salary will go up little to none, but your taxes will go up big time to pay for all the deadbeats. The hard working poeple just lost big time! I just hope the unions also are subject to be dumped in the pool with the rest of us!

*

I have never been more ashamed of my country. Today my country is dead to me.

Long live Texas!

*

Roberts is a GD'd Traitor! Thanks for nothing, W.

*

Roberts betrayed us.
Kennedy wanted to strike the whole thing down.

Kennedy said the whole thing is unconstitutional which it is.

Bush should have picked Janice Rogers Brown.

We need a 2nd revolution. This is tyranny

*

John Robert's poison legacy: Mexican takeover of America, and Socialist dictatorship. IMPEACH this traitorous bastard.

*

This is why elections count. To all the imbeciles who stayed at home and allowed this socialist would be dictator to become president; how do you like the new taxes that are being crammed down your throat?

Nobody knows how hard they are being hammered by this outrage. We have been effectively raped by our own government.

*

The only problem that Liberals have with the history of chattel slavery in the America is that the slaves were privately owned.

*

The law was not written or constructed with the mandate as a tax. If the mandate is a tax then the law should have to be rewritten and sent back through the process. Written as a mandate the law is now invalid. Try to get it through as a tax.

If not, then slaves have risen up throughout history. It might be time for civil disobedience and whatever else needed to remove the entire population of politicians from their perches. Enough of this crap. If representatives no longer represent us then let them be removed.


This next one nearly killed me:

It's time to start viewing the federal government with hostility.

*

This is fascism. Welcome to the Fourth Reich.

*

The Confederate States of America doesn't look so bad now, does it?

*

"This is why elections count. To all the imbeciles who stayed at home and allowed this socialist would be dictator to become president; how do you like the new taxes that are being crammed down your throat?
They are as culpable as the blithering morons who pulled the lever to elect this dictator."

How about imbeciles who supported the architect of Obamneycare as the GOP nominee? They should be happy today. Their guy's ideas won.

*

This is going to bring about a revolution. Got your guns ready?

*

Roberts should say it like it is: congress passed the law, not me. Be mad at congress, not the court.
BULLshiat....he was a Stealth Marxist all along

IMPEACH ROBERTS

*

If the Constitution was not a dead letter before today, it is now. There are no longer any constraints whatsoever on the power of the government as against the individual, nor does it recognize any.

We are indeed, for all intents and purposes, slaves of our government, to dispose of as they see fit.

And I for one will act as any slave would; they will only get the bare minimum out of me. It's off to Galt's Gulch.

*

In shock. Who knew Roberts was a lib..and a coward.

*

No only disgusting, but this ensures Obama will win in November....
Roomey will win now

*

"...but this ensures Obama will win in November...."

On the contrary, this has awakened a sleeping giant. Now, anyone who does not get out and vote against Obama is officially an enemy of the United States.

*

OBAMACARE = SLAVERY

repeat often to everyone.

OBAMACARE = SLAVERY

that is out talking point.

now vote out every single democrat.

*

Will somebody please ping me wrt location, time, etc., of commencement of our rioting.

*

I will not vote ever again for the GOP rather I will vote for the most liberal/socialists/leftists etc candidate from now on.
Voting any other way will not matter as it will be a waste of time and a vote.....

Above post is totally emotional reaction....


This next one makes sense since their entire economic policy is based on the dreams of a 13-year old...

A 4th grader can see that this is not Constitutional.

If the government can do this, what the F can't it do to us?

*

When and Where is the first anti-slavery rally?

OBAMACARE = SLAVERY

*

If the GOP is smart...
I see a flaw in your statement.Ed: so do I

*

RIP America.

*

Could John Roberts have been "blackmailed"? It may not be as farfetched as it sounds!
I think my husband and I are going to sell our home and his business. We are going to buy a camper and become gypsies! I am NOT giving one more damn dime to any of these marxists!

*

We now have to demand of any elected Representative and Senator that they will not get our vote unless they promise to repeal this monstrosity...or our freedom is lost forever.

*

Sorry to say, if you think this is ever going away, you're tilting at windmills. There is no way this is ever being repealed.

*

"prepare yourselves.."

My fellow American, we have been preparing for a civil revolution since 2008!

The freeloaders will not give up theirs without a serious fight and God willing, the good American people will give them a fight they won't soon forget. the fighting won't end until the American people take back their Constitutional government.

The adverse decision from SCOTUS is exactly what our forefathers feared in creating another government when they wrote the Constitution in the first place. Their fears have come true, unfortunately, the American people will have to again pick up arms to repel another oppressive tyrannical government.

Prepared, you bet your a$$!!!!

*

So, the federal government CAN mandate commerce, they simply need to represent it is a negative tax: Do this or else get taxed. So much for the US Constitution.

Since the federal government refuses to obey the constitution we should too! REVOLT!!!
2012-06-28 11:21:52 AM  
3 votes:

schattenteufel: Teabaggers in a nushell:

-Republican raise taxes to pay for foreign wars? No Problem! Lets give our boys the best toys to pertect our freedums!

-Democrats raise taxes to pay for healthcare of American citizens? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

(me? I'm against both parties. I just hate Teabaggers.)


You got that wrong:

-Democrats raise taxes to pay for healthcare of American citizens? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

-Republicans lower taxes and try to fight two foreign wars off the books to try to hide the actual costs of those wars, and then try to cut social programs after the fact to cut down on the mountains of debt those wars caused -- WE'RE OKAY WITH THIS!
2012-06-28 11:19:07 AM  
3 votes:

WombatControl:

Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.


How is this different from the insurance provider making those same decisions?
2012-06-28 11:13:29 AM  
3 votes:

sweetmelissa31: Dancin_In_Anson: On the downside, it could be a "read my lips" situation for him.

Ah yes, the time when a President did something responsible and everyone got pissed because taxes bad.


Taxes good. Taxes for the wealthiest good. Taxes for healthcare good. I don't care if I'm taxed. When you start wars in other countries, you have to pay for them. You voted for Bush, you deserve the taxes that result from the failed policies of that administration.

This is what we call responsibility. It should be a core tenet of our country but it isn't. We have become way too fiscally irresponsible.
2012-06-28 11:04:42 AM  
3 votes:

AngryPanda: Derek Force: So does this or does this not mean I have to wait in the ER for 3 hours because its filled with non-insured people who have the flu or a splinter?

You were doing that before!


Actually, it means there will still be an ER. Thanks to so many patients in ERs not paying their bills, most ERs would have closed if Obamacare had been overturned.

http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Homepage/TakeAction/AMSAOnCall/11-05-18/Why_ a re_ER_s_Closing.aspx
2012-06-28 11:03:23 AM  
3 votes:

Tat'dGreaser: I apparently don't know everything about this whole deal. I hear some people talk about how health care is now guaranteed for everyone, then I hear you are now forced to purchase health care. Which one is it?


A little of both.

So, most of the law is about making it easier on people to get health insurance--making it affordable by capping profit margins, making sure the insurer can't deny you coverage because you were sick before you started paying their premiums, being able to stay on your parents insurance until 26, etc. All in all, things most individuals would consider reasonable moderation on an industry that makes its profits by denying service. Whether you agree or not, polls show most people liked the individual points.

The balancing factor in this was the individual mandate--a requirement that you either purchase healthcare of some sort (presumably with minimum standards of care) or you pay the government a fine come tax time. Not so many people liked this but the insurance companies were more in favor of it, as it makes a penalty for waiting until one is sick before purchasing insurance (which they'd be obligated to not deny you just because you're already sick). This was probably the most controversial bit of the whole thing, with a lot of conservatives saying the government can't (or shouldn't) force you to purchase something from a private company, and a lot of the liberals saying it's either covered by the interstate commerce clause and/or it's a tax on not carrying insurance.

The court has ruled that it's effectively a tax, despite some wacky wording on the part of the writers who didn't want to call it a tax.

So over the next few years, it will be significantly easier for one to get affordable health insurance, but one will also be obligated to purchase said insurance or pay a yearly fine.
2012-06-28 11:02:01 AM  
3 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: bulldg4life: Not if he has health insurance.

Just like a million other things he could do to receive tax credits.


And if he doesn't purchase insurance? And those that can't afford it? Who will pay for them?

The funny thing is that I was repeatedly berated here for calling Obamacare a tax. It will be interesting to see how this fleshes out. On the upside for Obama, he got his bill. On the downside, it could be a "read my lips" situation for him.


It's much like the taxes I pay for being childless, single and not owning my own home.
2012-06-28 11:00:53 AM  
3 votes:

Phinn: Really, anyone with two brain cells to rub together can avoid all federal taxes. It's really not that hard.


Ah, finally the Cons show up to "love" their country with all of the respect and responsibility of enjoying a four course meal and driving away when the bill comes.

What models for society!
2012-06-28 10:57:10 AM  
3 votes:

Propain_az: Here comes the law of unintended consequences. If you thought health care was bad before.............


....well it will pretty much stay at the same level, since doctors will still be highly trained and paid, hospitals will continue to exist, function, and profit, and insurance, drug, and other medical companies will still be making money hand over fist.
2012-06-28 10:54:42 AM  
3 votes:

Thunderpipes: Most Americans are against the mandate, so you just pissed off a bunch of people who are independents.


Even if Americans aren't keen on the mandate, they like what the mandate pays for. They like that they can't be refused for pre-existing conditions. They like being able to keep their kids on their plans longer. They like many of the individual parts of the plan when they actually find out about it and realize it helps them.

This will not cost Obama votes, and in fact this could help shore up support, because the people who really benefit will now have a motivation to get out there and vote. If the Dems are smart, and who knows they might surprise us, then they'll make sure those pesky non-voting young people realize that letting Republicans take control will directly impact them. If Republicans make this a central issue, they might motivate a lot of voting against them.

And if you don't think people like the plan, then get a list of all the specific parts of this plan and ask people about the specifics. Tick off every part of the plan, and you'll find that people actually like it. Maybe not all of it, but more people than not are willing to deal with the parts they don't like for the parts they do. It's a net positive.
2012-06-28 10:54:28 AM  
3 votes:
I'm not going to do more "celebrating" other than simply remind people how much the conservatard trolls were salivating all week over their chance to do an end-zone dance and really stick it to the libs.

Remember that? I do.

/that's all
//not a huge fan of this legislation, but it would be hard to challenge this decision
2012-06-28 10:52:43 AM  
3 votes:

Thunderpipes: 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.


That will go over real well with the citizens in those states. When the citizens of those states that as you put it "tell Obama and the Feds to go suck it", talk to their family and friends in other states and find out how well they are doing health wise because of Obamacare, I don't think they will be too happy with their state leadership. You can't keep lying to people once they see that somebody is getting something that they are not.
2012-06-28 10:52:20 AM  
3 votes:

Aphostile: Only in America will so many people get their panties in a bunch over something that will help so many in need.


NPR did a man on the street interview this morning with this guy saying he shouldn't be forced to buy health insurance, that he just wants to pay out of pocket for services when he needs it.

That stupidity pretty much sums up all the people against having the law.
2012-06-28 10:50:33 AM  
3 votes:

m1ke: Yay more taxes to pay!!!!


Actually small business who provides health insurance get a big tax CUT under this law.
2012-06-28 10:45:01 AM  
3 votes:
based on the comments in this thread it looks like "tax increase" is the talkingpoint people are being told to parrot.
2012-06-28 10:43:12 AM  
3 votes:

Thunderpipes: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Thunderpipes: 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Oh yeah, the States just love turning away Federal money.

Read the ruling, moron. Feds cannot withold money if states don't expand their Medicaid. That was the ruling. They cannot be penalized and will retain what they have. They just don't need to accept a while bunch of new people and be saddled with the burden. Big win. Obamacare was counting on this use of force to drum up money.


Again: the States just love turning money away. "Oh, you're going to give us more money for a new program?.. no, no, we're fine... we'll just sit here with our thumbs up our butts until our constituents find out we're leaving money on the table."

/It makes for great political grandstanding, but ultimately the States never refuse this kind of money even if there are strings attached.
2012-06-28 10:42:47 AM  
3 votes:
Awesome. Universal health care will catapult the American society straight into the 20th century!
2012-06-28 10:41:51 AM  
3 votes:

valar_morghulis: To all who opposed Obamacare: how does it feel to be on the wrong side of history yet again?


Does it count if we opposed it because it was a bandaid rather than a true fix for the actual problems with our healthcare system, and a massive waste of money compared to actually fixing anything?
2012-06-28 10:40:13 AM  
3 votes:
I got a breaking news alert on my phone from CNN that the individual mandate was struck down, then a correction 15 minutes later.

You suck so hard CNN. I hope people lose their jobs over this one.

CNN - The president has been shot.

Correction - The president has shot a personal best three under par this weekend.
2012-06-28 10:40:08 AM  
3 votes:
YEA!!! Now i get punnished for working for a company that offers a good health care package!! YEA!! for the 40% tax on cadillac plans!!!! fark! nothing like punnishing those who work to pay for other lazy bastards.
2012-06-28 10:39:16 AM  
3 votes:

unlikely: This is a surprise. I honestly expected the 6-3 conservative court to rule more in favor of "fark the poors because they smell"


You have no idea how the supreme court works. Their job is to judge if something is constitutional, regardless of how awesome or terrible an idea is. They do not judge value.
2012-06-28 10:38:51 AM  
3 votes:
Damn activist court.

How dare they think they know more about the law and the Constitution than Republicans who've been biatching about this shiat since it was created (with help from Republicans)?
2012-06-28 10:38:35 AM  
3 votes:
Great, now I get to buy health care insurance for another 16 million losers.

On the plus side, this now paves the way for the gubmint to force all people to buy a treadmill, because, hey, some people are fat, and everyone is already in that market, because all people would be less fat if they had a treadmill. Gosh, it makes me want to sing

...and the laaaaaaaand oooo----ooo---fff the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

Reward the FAIL, America...what's the worst that could happen?

/worst decision since Kelo
2012-06-28 10:38:14 AM  
3 votes:
Obama should land on a hospital roof in a Life Flight helicopter while wearing a paramedics uniform.
2012-06-28 10:37:41 AM  
3 votes:
Fantastic news! I regret the fact that we can't just get fully nationalized health care in this country though; it would boost the quality of life of 99% of Americans.

Mitt Romney? biatch please
2012-06-28 10:37:26 AM  
3 votes:
I like how this isn't about if the law is a good law and more a an exchange of hand-jobs for "fans" of the winning "side," using the losing "side's" tears for lube.

/if you're one of those people you should probably be ashamed of yourself.
2012-06-28 10:36:47 AM  
3 votes:
farm3.static.flickr.comView Full Size
2012-06-28 10:36:09 AM  
3 votes:

mediaho: AmazinTim: NowhereMon: Suck it cons, suck it long and hard

You must mean suck it everyone, now we'll never fix health care. We'll just keep patching scabby band-aids onto the issue, just like this bill.

At least someone bothered with the band-aid when the wound has been festering open for nearly a century.


This. A baby step forward is still a step forward. And as conservative Boomers die off, we might actually get to make more of those steps, until America catches up with the rest of the civilized world.
2012-06-28 10:35:48 AM  
3 votes:

Thunderpipes: 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.


Oh yeah, the States just love turning away Federal money.
2012-06-28 10:34:12 AM  
3 votes:

AmazinTim: NowhereMon: Suck it cons, suck it long and hard

You must mean suck it everyone, now we'll never fix health care. We'll just keep patching scabby band-aids onto the issue, just like this bill.


At least someone bothered with the band-aid when the wound has been festering open for nearly a century.
2012-06-28 10:33:35 AM  
3 votes:

SphericalTime: Awwww. I was hoping for single payer during my lifetime.


I think the idea that single payer would have been a possibility if it had been struck down is pure fantasy.
2012-06-28 10:32:16 AM  
3 votes:

St_Francis_P: I doubt Mitt actually gives a crap one way or another.


Actually, I think it's a net benefit for the Mittster

The right wing is going to go apeshiat over this ruling and come out in droves to make sure they get a president who won't put any more horrible liberals like Roberts on the Court

Plus, now he doesn't have to propose anything at all- he can just keep going with the "Obamacare is horrible, vote for me to kill it" without ever having to say what he'll replace it with

/Honestly shocked that Roberts was the swing vote.
2012-06-28 10:31:40 AM  
3 votes:
This is just further evidence of the Obama Junta. Chief Justice Roberts is a member of the secret society of government officials hell bent on turning America into an effective nation.
2012-06-28 10:31:25 AM  
3 votes:
Taxes, is there no sickness they can't cure?
2012-06-28 10:31:16 AM  
3 votes:
Good.
2012-06-28 10:30:55 AM  
3 votes:
Heh. The CNN news flash on my iPhone said they struck it down.

DEWEY DEFEATS OBAMACARE
2012-06-28 10:30:37 AM  
3 votes:
Will need to read the decision and dissents before we fully understand what just happened.
2012-06-28 10:28:40 AM  
3 votes:
Obama has just destroyed this country.
2012-06-28 10:20:50 AM  
3 votes:
There is going to be some epic butthurt that is about to commence.
2012-06-28 10:17:37 AM  
3 votes:

NowhereMon: LOL free republic is melting down


$10 says they call for Roberts to be impeached (or worse).
2012-06-28 10:15:43 AM  
3 votes:
I don't believe it. I'm actually shocked.
2012-06-28 08:00:32 PM  
2 votes:
i47.tinypic.comView Full Size
.
2012-06-28 05:01:28 PM  
2 votes:
famousquotesabout.comView Full Size
2012-06-28 04:26:12 PM  
2 votes:
Obamacare isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative being offered by the Republicans.

Here's a car analogy: Suppose your old car is on its last legs, and you need to buy new one. So, you shop around for a while, and you decide on a five year old minivan with about 80,000 miles on the clock. It's not great, but it's safe and reliable. But your teenage son hates the minivan. He hates it so much that he's worked himself into an irrational rage, and one day he decides to go out to the garage and set the minivan on fire, in a fit of adolescent spite and stupidity. But John Roberts is driving by and puts out the fire last minute, and takes your son's matches away too. So now your teenage son is livid, and holds a press conference where he says that the day he turns 18 he's going to buy some more matches and burn that damned minivan and the garage it's in down to the ground, and then he's going to buy a newer more awesome car with all the money he makes at his part time job at gamestop.

And nearly half of America supports your son, because they hate the minivan too, and they would rather walk than ride around in a car driven by a black person.
2012-06-28 03:43:32 PM  
2 votes:

The_Sponge: Lando Lincoln: The_Sponge: Rwa2play: I like how you and your brethren keep trying to push this as a talking point when, in fact, it's not.

But do keep farking that chicken.

You guys can't even admit that he broke that promise. At least keep it real by admitting that he did, but you don't mind because you like the end result.

If I promise my wife I'm not going to buy a blue car and I come home with a red car, and two years later my kid dumps a can of blue paint on the car and my wife screams, "BUT YOU PROMISED ME THAT YOU WOULD NOT BUY A BLUE CAR!" would I be allowed to punch her in the face like you deserve to be?

That is one awful analogy.

/So wonderful that some people in this thread are reduced to insults and childish behavior.
//Apparently disagreeing with Obama and pointing out a broken promise warrant a punch in the face.


Sponge, I'm mostly a lurker here. I'm also a registered Republican that favors fairly liberal social policies along with actually conservative economical policies (the kind we haven't seen since Dole). I'm not hugely happy with ACA as it currently stands, but this talking point is ridiculous in three ways and doesn't really help getting a republican in office in November as it's basically lying, and Romney has done so much of that he really has gimped himself in the future debates because of it.

First, the ACA is not Obama's plan. It was modified substantially by congress, including things brought in by our own side. To call it such is factually incorrect, and long term will only make Republicans seem venomous to the country as individually most of the parts of ACA that are really well liked are part of Obama's plan, and most of the parts people don't like, like the Mandate, actually were added by Republicans in congress.

Sticking to this will give Romeny a lot of vulnerabilities in the debates, at with this verdict the debates will be his primary way to get elected as he will be playing much more defensively now.

Second, this talking point is incorrect in that assuming that the ACA that was passed was Obama's version, it was not Obama that made it into a tax. The Supreme Court did. In that the car analogy is correct, as the original drafting of congress's ACA was not a tax until this afternoon. Similarly, this will be a vulnerability to exploit in the debates.

Third, this is the exact same system that Romney enacted in his own state, and him standing against it will only give Obama fuel to show him as a flip-flopper to public opinion, which, like Kerry back in the day, is his main weakness.

I would also say that at this point repeal is probably not possible, no mater how he campaigns. He would need to win the presidency and have a full house and senate dominated by Republicans. As McConnell has ensured we are seen as obstructionist, I would not expect us to hold on to as many seats as we currently have with the upcoming elections, though I doubt we will have the landslide losses we had in 2008.

The best thing we can do for long term conservative legislation is look for ways to improve ACA rather than shoot it down. The nation will have socialized medicine eventually. I see no reason why that can't be the foothold Republicans use to make their mark on the next decade in a positive way.

Though it would be completely out of character with the crazies currently running our party into the ground.
2012-06-28 03:15:41 PM  
2 votes:

The_Sponge: Rwa2play: I like how you and your brethren keep trying to push this as a talking point when, in fact, it's not.

But do keep farking that chicken.

You guys can't even admit that he broke that promise. At least keep it real by admitting that he did, but you don't mind because you like the end result.


If I promise my wife I'm not going to buy a blue car and I come home with a red car, and two years later my kid dumps a can of blue paint on the car and my wife screams, "BUT YOU PROMISED ME THAT YOU WOULD NOT BUY A BLUE CAR!" would I be allowed to punch her in the face like you deserve to be?
2012-06-28 02:32:53 PM  
2 votes:

Anti_illuminati: You already pay for it. Lard-asses are already receiving medical care and the fact they can't pay for it is reflected in your insurance premiums increasing and tax dollars rising. This is a very important point you seem to be overlooking. This act, while not ideal at all, seeks to limit premium increases and places a profit margin that health insurance companies can obtain, while also increasing the risk pool to off set increasing premium costs and healthcare costs.


You seem to be overlooking an important point -- I don't have health insurance.

I don't want it.

It's too expensive.

It provides me with a lousy cost-to-benefit ratio.

It's too expensive because government has had its corrupt fingers in the insurance business for so long that the product they offer is now outrageously over-priced for an unbelievably crappy product.

Now, I am forced to buy a product that is too crappy to be sold to people like me on a voluntary basis.

So, having failed to make something that appeals to me, that I would buy voluntarily, people like you resort to guns to compel me to "buy" it.

Anti_illuminati: If we follow this logic, we also have to exclude those with pre-existing conditions.


Forcing health insurers (i.e., their "customers") to pay for treatment of pre-existing conditions is like forcing homeowner insurers to pay to insure for the rebuilding of houses that have already burned down.

That's not "insurance" any more. It's just using a (nominally) private corporation as a proxy for giving welfare benefits to people. Fascism. Corporatism. Use the appropriate label.

Anti_illuminati: However, if you're just bigoted against unhealthy people and those with pre-existing conditions, then fine, I see where you stand on the issue and it has nothing to do with addressing the issue of cost-effectiveness.


I'm against paying for their self-inflicted expenses, just as I am opposed to being risk-assessed for life insurance with smokers, suicidal depressives and the terminally ill.

A free market for insurance would pool similar risks. People who are obese and sedentary are not at the same risk for some (extremely expensive) medical costs as those who are active, fit and eat well.

But being active, fit and eating well comes at a cost of effort and exertion that many people are not willing to make. They'd rather pass the costs of their leisure and dietary pleasure onto others.

I don't approve, morally or economically, of people who demand that they are subsidized so they can live at the expense of everyone else.

If you want to be a champion for institutionalized parasitism, go ahead.

You will not get my money, though. I will see to that.
2012-06-28 02:30:31 PM  
2 votes:

Sir Vanderhoot: AmazinTim: NowhereMon: Suck it cons, suck it long and hard

You must mean suck it everyone, now we'll never fix health care. We'll just keep patching scabby band-aids onto the issue, just like this bill.

I was really hoping it would get struck down, then force a complete overhaul single-payer plan. Make health insurance companies obsolete completely.

Oh well. Maybe in a few decades we can join the rest of the civilized world.


In a single payer health care system insurance companies don't disappear, they just pay for extras like natropathic medicine, acupuncture, or for private care. In Canada they also exist for dental and drug care.

The difference in cost to get extended benefits+drugs, total 125 a month for a family plan. Dental is 80 a month.

Single payer health care also spurs small business development, because it's far less scary to start your own business when you don't have to worry about health care costs.

My cousin's wife is working nights and paying most of that income to child care only because it provides health insurance, getting it on their own would cost 1000's a month. In Canada, she could quit and help my cousin at his business and cut back on the amount of day care they need.

Quite frankly, you already are paying for the poor through medicaid and long wait times at emergency rooms.

In single payer health care, you're paying for the middle class to survive and thrive, it's shocking that the vast majority of the American people haven't figured that out yet.

/American living in Canada
//Single payer health care isn't scary
2012-06-28 02:23:41 PM  
2 votes:
I can see why some people are upset. I just got out of graduate school and from the time I was 18 to finishing my masters degree I was uninsured and unable to afford health insurance. Should I have gotten insurance? If I could have figured out how, of course. I guess people in my situation can now stay on their parents health insurance until 26 so that will cover a lot of young people. Some people just can't afford to buy private insurance and that will be a burden on them, but as a society this is a good thing. My mother would have been able to get cancer treatment in time to save her life if the ACA would have been passed a few years earlier. Millions of children can now get insurance who couldn't before. These are good things. If you fall into that category where this is a burden, that sucks and I'm sorry but later in life you'll benefit from this even if you don't see it now.
2012-06-28 02:22:25 PM  
2 votes:

snocone: All I want for Christmas is the same farkin' health insurance Congress has seen fit to give itself at my expense.

/good enough for all their family, good enough for mine


All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
2012-06-28 01:29:25 PM  
2 votes:
guys

you can choose not to have healthcare. all not having it does is subject you to a tax of 1% of your income. for most people this tax will be $500 or less and THOSE people tend to get refunds on taxes large enough that all it does is decrease by $500 or less what you spend on a new flatscreen television or whatever other irresponsible thing you do with your money

and really, thats all implying you don't qualify for a f*cking hardship exemption or are poor enough to be outright put on Medicare anyway

oh, and if you already have health insurance? THIS DOES NOTHING TO YOU.

biggest bunch of crybabies I've ever seen.

oh, and that tax? likely a f*cking PITTANCE in comparison to the f*cking ER bills the motherf*ckers are running up. i mean Jesus, guys. CALM DOWN.
2012-06-28 01:18:11 PM  
2 votes:
If you all thought people were protesting before, just wait till you see what they do now that this has happened.

The problem with Obamacare is that it doesn't address the main fundamental issue with healthcare: That it is expensive. Simply mandating by law that people have health insurance of some sort under penalty of fine tax isn't going to change the fact that health care costs are ballooning.

The thing is this isn't a problem where we don't have a solution. Some very smart people spent several years researching this shiat and managed to find several sectors of the health care industry that were able to find ways of operating that drove costs of health care down to much more acceptable levels and were further able to derive a sound strategy for the healthcare industry to reliably lower the cost of care and still improve the quality of care delivered (mostly through decentralization and by making it much easier and affordable to get care for minor and easily treated illnesses via stuff like Minute Clinic and technology making it much easier to diagnose illness without needing highly trained professionals which lowers costs and turnaround).

"Mandated" health insurance doesn't work because it's not addressing the fundamental reason why healthcare is so expensive in the first place, and is only going to cause the problem to become worse over time, not better. Furthermore this is clearly a preemptive bailout for the health insurance industry, as they've mostly priced themselves out of the market, mainly because of rising health care costs, so if people think this is going to magically make their insurance more affordable (or significantly more so) or comprehensive, then I got a bridge in China I can sell you. And then of course there is the issue of "expanding" Medicare. How? With what money? Pretty soon Medicare will likely be as sustainable as Social Security is right now, which is to say, not very. I'm not attacking Medicaid or SS or the people on it, but these are all products of the Industrial Age and the Industrial Age is in its death throes right now as the chestburster that is the Silicon Era struggles to erupt free from its chest, just as the Industrial Age did to the Agricultural Age so many years ago.

To sum up, "Obamacare" fails because it doesn't address the fundamental issue that healthcare is too expensive and can't just be fixed by mandatory health insurance because a). the health insurance agencies are in a rock and hard place and can't really lower the cost of health insurance due to the nature of healthcare expenses at this time, but on top of that they are basically being given customers since more people are opting out of insurance because it's too expensive to have due to the expensive nature of healthcare in general, and b). Medicare is funded by the government and given the out-of-control nature of deficit spending will simply be unable to maintain as things worsen on that end.

The only real solution to our healthcare woes is through disruptive innovation via both technological disruptions/breakthroughs and business model reform.
2012-06-28 01:11:13 PM  
2 votes:

Republicans -

"We hate everything you want, even when it was our idea."

2012-06-28 01:01:11 PM  
2 votes:

SouthernFriedYankee: The end zone dancing is very much misplaced. The powerful will avoid shouldering any additional burden, while the powerless will not be able to do so. It's probably good news for welfare riders, but for the working poor it's going to be a disaster, economically. So much for hiring picking up. So much for economic recovery.

But hey, your team won, right? And that's all that matters.

Congrats.


The working poor are worse off because they lack health care. A majority of personal bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. Of those going bankrupt in 2007, the majority had insurance at some point, but they either lost it or the insurance company denied them. Obamacare is an attempt to fix these problems.

A monthly bill for health insurance, which can be budgeted and offset with vouchers, is doable for even poor families. A major health problem that comes out of nowhere and leads to a massive medical bill? Not so much.
2012-06-28 12:49:33 PM  
2 votes:

Phinn: Here's an idea: Everyone pays for his own stuff.


So you pay for your police/fire/EMS service yourself, along with your power supplies, highways and other infrastructure? No? Then STFU. It's called society and yes, society has to provide for some things that individuals cannot afford themselves.

/deal with it
2012-06-28 12:42:52 PM  
2 votes:
My mom had major surgery this year made possible by Obamacare - they were able to get her insured because of it. Parents are still voting for all of the people who want to overturn it, of course. It's a bit like trying to save someone who's drowning even though they're fighting tooth and nail to keep you away from them.
2012-06-28 12:35:23 PM  
2 votes:
It'd be nice if this forced the Repubtards to come to the table and hammer out a single payer system. Instead, they'll just go full retard and try to repeal it.

4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
2012-06-28 12:34:07 PM  
2 votes:
I want to say congrats to Mitt Romney for being the catalyst (Romneycare) that ultimately manifested itself into this historical and unprecedented ruling from the Supreme Court of the United States to the citizens of these United States of America..
2012-06-28 12:33:38 PM  
2 votes:
From the beginning, I thought that "Don't ask, don't tell," was a step, a necessary, imperfect step, toward gays serving openly in the military.

The Affordable Care Act is a similar, necessary (since Congress wouldn't pass single-payer), imperfect step toward our joining the rest of the developed world in providing universal (single-payer) healthcare for its citizens.

I'm good with that.
2012-06-28 12:26:45 PM  
2 votes:
On an unrelated note, I cannot put to words how relieved I am about this. I didn't even realize how worried I was, but I feel infinetly better today, upon hearing this news.

Largely because this means it *will* be possible for me to find my future wife health insurance later on down the road, without having to worry about them trying to deny her for 'pre-existing conditions'.

/She had a medication-induced stroke a few years back, at the age of 23.
//She's fine now! There were no lingering problems whatsoever, save that she thinks she swallows slightly differently now.
///UNC-Chapel Hill Hospital's Neurology department is staffed by tiny gods.
2012-06-28 12:25:07 PM  
2 votes:

justtray: What's the countdown before the outrage that we shouldn't call it Obamacare anymore now that it is constitutional? I doubt we go a week before the Right Wing hypocrisy comes full circle and starts complaining about how it shouldn't be called that.


The more people start actually paying attention to what's in this program (and many people are somehow just doing this now), the more Republicans will regret dubbing it "Obamacare." I find that hilarious.
2012-06-28 12:24:22 PM  
2 votes:

DarnoKonrad: NeoCortex42: Obama: "The mandate has had support from both sides, including Mitt Romney."

Nice.

If it had went down, Obama'd be in pickle. But he's going to hammer Romney on this until November.


Either way, I just want Obama to pressure Romney into explicitly stating what he'd replace ObamaCare with. Hey, if Romney has some amazing solution that would fix things even better, I'm willing to listen to it.
2012-06-28 12:23:24 PM  
2 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: unlikely: This is a surprise. I honestly expected the 6-3 conservative court to rule more in favor of "fark the poors because they smell"

what do you think this ruling is then when you really apply in IRL scenerios? it is exactly that... fark the poor and 'tax' them more for not having health insurance.


The poor still don't have to pay as much. They get it subsidized on a sliding scale, and if you're really, really poor, you're not subject to the fine.
2012-06-28 12:18:28 PM  
2 votes:

groininjury: What does matter, is now the US Government can force you to engage in commerce against your will with a 3rd party (with no limits)


No, they can't. Did you skip the part where you can go without health insurance if you are fine with paying a bit more in taxes, much like you pay more in taxes if you don't have a mortgage?
2012-06-28 12:16:08 PM  
2 votes:

Tenga: Tune in to Rush Limbaugh today at noon.


Not even at gunpoint.
2012-06-28 12:14:41 PM  
2 votes:

Pincy: SandMann: So, any doctors thinking about moving their practices to another country? If so, which one? Early retirement? Career change?

Why would doctors be upset by this? It gives them access to more patients because more people will be able to go to the doctor now.


My wife is a dentist and pretty happy about this because pediatric dental is considered an essential benefit. That means all kids just became regular customers. Even if they government is only paying at cost, it's a benefit for her in terms of keeping the office busy. Also much better than the kids only coming in when the have a serious issue or as part of a charity thing.

/it's tough to get the lower income kids since their parents are resistant to the idea of taking charity to support the kids
//now though she'll tell the parents they're paying for it, so they might as well make use of it and that will get them through the door.
2012-06-28 12:13:09 PM  
2 votes:

chiett: jso2897
"Along with Roe V. Wade and the Civil Rights Act, right, Cletus?
Yeah - any day now.
Keep telling yourself that"


The difference there Jethro is those laws did not take a chunk of change out of the average persons wallet. This will.


No, it won't, actually - and anyway, a lot of things take a chunk of change out of my pocket.
Like fighter planes that won't fly in the rain. And invasions of countries that haven't done anything to America. And rooting up pot farms. And cops and courts and jails.
Keep dreaming, if you must, that this horseshiat "tax" issue is going to be your "Obama killer". It isn't.
2012-06-28 12:11:54 PM  
2 votes:
As a Canadian, I'm very happy with this result. Tech companies were already preferring to start up in Canada because the health care is taxpayer-funded.

Nothing has changed. In fact, more companies may prefer to outsource studios to Que? Nada because of the pressure to enroll employees in company healthcare in USA and the embarrassment if that's not an option.


That's just something to think about. That said, this is baby steps, and for the good of everyone, I really do hope this is one step towards a single payer system. You guys are baby stepping to letting teh gays get married, baby stepping to this too. It's a good thing.
2012-06-28 12:10:05 PM  
2 votes:
Waldo Pepper - so what if you are healthy and simply pay for whatever doctor visits you need at the time you are penalized by the government for not buy a product/service?


What f you simply pay for car repairs and medical bills out of your own pocket when you cause accident? You are penalized by the government for not buying a product/service?

It's the same principle. You're required to carry liability auto insurance if you drive because the risk to others is too great if you don't. We can't police everyone and make sure they have sufficient means and willingness to pay, so we simply require that they carry liability insurance so that if they cause an accident, the other person won't be left high and dry.

In this case, what if you, young and reasonably healthy though you may be, are suddenly diagnosed with Hodgkins disease? What if you break your neck snowboarding and can no longer work?

Making sure that everyone contributes spreads the cost across a larger pool and helps solve the free rider problem of people who gamble on not carrying insurance and then cause society to bear the cost when their decision goes sideways.

It may not be a flawless solution, but few things are.
2012-06-28 12:09:19 PM  
2 votes:

Phinn: Serious Black: The free market has already said that sick people can't be covered because there is no way to make voluntary coverage for them actuarially sound.

Which free market was that?


The one that has us paying a lot more to insure 65% of our population than the citizens of 35 nations with higher rated healthcare pay to insure their entire populations. That "free market".
The "invisible hand" that seems to spend most of it's time stroking billionaire's dicks.
2012-06-28 12:09:02 PM  
2 votes:

rigmort: My wife is an underwriting manager. She said that yes, they won't be able to turn you down or rider out for a previous condition or other reason.... but there's nothing that says they can't charge whatever they want. They are now being forced to "insure" against future problems AND current ones. Do you really think they won't cover their own asses?

PREMIUMS WILL GO UPBIGTIME FOR EVERYONE.


If they do that, they'll run afoul of the rate review and medical-loss ratio rules.
2012-06-28 12:08:56 PM  
2 votes:

images.sodahead.comView Full Size

2012-06-28 12:06:42 PM  
2 votes:

WombatControl: In a system like the one Canada has, you couldn't get that care at all without going to the black market. Finally, the Canadian Supreme Court struck that system down as a gross violation of human rights.


You know how I know you don't no anything about the Supreme Court decision?

There is no "black market" in Canada. Effectively the Supreme Court ruled that you cannot ban private medical insurance for basic health care. The fear (of most Canadians) is that this will open the door to a two-tier health care system and it will become more screwed up like the US.

Canada's health care system:

1) longer lives
2) fewer infant moralities
3) less amenable deaths
4) half the cost
5) universal
6) we cling to it like a Southerner clings to the 2nd Amendment
2012-06-28 12:03:06 PM  
2 votes:
Of course the ACA is a giant giveaway to private insurance companies and seen in that light calling it socialist is extra stupid. That said, it's still better than what we had before.

RolandGunner
Well, in the long run it's the best possible outcome if the law was going to be upheld. By changing the mandate penalty to a tax and, ruling out the commerce clause justification, the bill is upheld without issuing a blanket authorization for the federal government to force the purchase of goods and services.

That seems like a fair assessment. People were perhaps justifiably concerned about the implications if the commerce clause was sufficient to uphold the mandate. The decision threads that needle.

ps69
He just killed teh freedoms.

sigh... she is quite possibly the dumbest public figure in the country. She's going for the world title.
2012-06-28 12:02:21 PM  
2 votes:
i301.photobucket.comView Full Size
2012-06-28 11:59:23 AM  
2 votes:
Well now, congratulations to the real Americans.

And for the rest of you treasonous neoconservatives who cry like little b*tches about paying your f*cking taxes like any other adult, you can go eat sh*t.

The only reason you're against Obama is because you're too stupid to know when you're working against your own best interests.

If you don't like what's going on in this country, then LEAVE.

Roberts. I'll be damned. Nice one, man.
2012-06-28 11:55:07 AM  
2 votes:

Lorelle: *cries tears of joy*

/is pushing 50
//has a pre-existing condition
///can't afford a health care plan right now


This is what we were trying to accomplish. Americans help their fellow citizens, not throw them to the wolves.
2012-06-28 11:52:28 AM  
2 votes:
It amazes me that so many of you think this is a great thing. It's just the government getting its foot in the door to have even greater power.

1. Government makes everyone have health care, and starts to pay for many more people's health care.
2. Government realizes this actually will increase the cost of health care. Needs to reign in costs.
3. Government tells people "We pay for your health care, so we can dictate your health".
4. Government bans Cheetos, DQ Blizzards, and King Size Candy Bars.

// this has already started with the large soda bans.
// so much for freedom of choice.
2012-06-28 11:46:42 AM  
2 votes:
CNN reporter to Romney spokesman: What specifically is your health care alternative?

Romney spokesman: We don't need specifics right now.
2012-06-28 11:46:29 AM  
2 votes:
"Somebody call for a Constitutional Scholar?"

writingjunkie.netView Full Size
2012-06-28 11:46:11 AM  
2 votes:
Jjaro 2012-06-28 10:30:51 AM

Kennedy went right and Roberts went left? That's surprising.

And are the liberals on Fark and the op-eds around America going to stop complaining about how biased and partisan the Supreme Court is now?


No.

One ruling has not changed that.
2012-06-28 11:44:59 AM  
2 votes:

Headso: based on the comments in this thread it looks like "tax increase" is the talkingpoint people are being told to parrot.


Which is fine... the whole act was worded in a way to get around using the word "tax" because people get so emotional about it. The whole argument for single payer, public option solutions derailed over it. Most reasonable people... when asked if they would rather have a $12000 p/y private health insurance policy, or a $7k p/y public option, SHOULD want the relief of a cheaper solution. But it gets framed as a $7k tax hike on working families, and the whole thing goes to pot.
2012-06-28 11:42:43 AM  
2 votes:

MurphyMurphy: Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance.


Sort of like what happens now with my insurance company?
2012-06-28 11:40:23 AM  
2 votes:

Thunderpipes: PunGent: vernonFL: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the things that people don't like about Obamacare is that they'll be required to buy health insurance that they feel they don't need as they are in generally good health?

That is the whole issue. Say you're 25 and you say, "I'm young and healthy, I don't need insurance." So you don't buy any. Then, you get cancer and you try to get insurance, nobody will insure you because you have cancer.

One of my problems with Romneycare is that the young healthy 25 year olds can't just buy a bare-bones catastrophic coverage plan with a high deductible, which WOULD cover them for the long-shot cancer/car crash scenarios...they have to get comprehensive coverage. I guess the idea is to make the pool of insureds big enough.

Not sure if those type of policies would "count" under Obamacare.

They do not. High deductible plans like that are illegal under the ACA. They will need to be replaced. This will further burden companies that employ kids fresh out of college and the kids themselves. Sure, they can stay on their parent's plan till 26 (and then parents pay more) but then they are screwed. They need a very high cost, low deductible plan or they get taxed.


You should read Section 1301(g) of the bill before you talk about this stuff buddy. You can still get a plan with a $6,000 deductible.
2012-06-28 11:33:08 AM  
2 votes:

WombatControl: bdub77: Doesn't matter. Americans got health care. This is a win for the American people, not just Obama. Obama will now go down as the first president who got Americans health care. His legacy in that regard, not to mention countless other things he's done as president, will solidify him as one of the greats.

And yes I expect him to fully whip Romney's ass in November.

WHISKY. TANGO. FOXTROT.

Really? Now Americans have health care? You mean no one in this country had health care prior to Obama? Is this what you really think?

Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.

Nothing is free. Health care is not free, and it can't be made free by government fiat. If the liberals got their way we'd have a system in which everyone but the ultra rich who could afford private insurace (or black-market care) is stuck waiting in lines for treatments they may never get.

If the statists got their way and we magically had an NHS-style system in the United States there would be riots in the streets because Americans do not take kindly to the government dictating to them what they can and cannot have. At least those Americans who still believe in the spirit of this nation's Founding, anyway.


You know, our system also rations care. We just happen to ration it by telling people who can't afford it that they don't get anything at all rather than anything approaching sanity in terms of what care will actually, you know, help people.
2012-06-28 11:32:47 AM  
2 votes:
The thing that most conservatives are forgetting is that it is extremely common to be fined aka "taxed", for not having insurance. Most states require people to have auto insurance, where is the outrage over that? I have to have homeowners insurance, where is the outrage over that? Many people have to have flood insurance, where is the outrage over that? you get the point.

And before babbling on about "OMG biggest tax increase EVAR!!!" crunch the numbers and see how many people are likely to get fined in 2014 and how many exceptions have already been given out and how many more applications for exceptions will now be flowing in due to this being upheld. If you have a year and a half to get healthcare insurance and don't, you probably deserve to get fined as there are many programs to help those who cannot afford it. I predict that the majority of those who will be fined will be the tea-bagging type who want a confrontation.
2012-06-28 11:30:55 AM  
2 votes:
So when your company sees it cheaper to pay the fine and not offer you that HC package, will you still be dancing in the streets?
2012-06-28 11:30:07 AM  
2 votes:
img600.imageshack.usView Full Size
2012-06-28 11:29:43 AM  
2 votes:

SuperT: So what about working poor whose employers don't offer insurance, they pay the tax that they can ill afford and what do they get in return? Do they get health care in return? Can someone fill me in on how this doesn't fark over the uninsured? I don't think we had a problem with people refusing or choosing not to have insurance, just unable to afford not offered or refused by insurance co.


Sure. Let me do my best.

Said employees will be directed toward the state-run exchanges for individual insurance. Mostly private providers, but at least Vermont will have a public option. The exchange plans will be community-rated and not subject to denial due to pre-existing conditions.

For anyone 'working poor' (let's say, under $50k family income), there are *huge* subsidies written in PPACA for purchasing insurance. Now, the actual funding for those subsidies is subject to the appropriations process each year, so that could get very dicey.

But, part of PPACA is that if a 'silver' plan (minus the subsidies) in the exchange costs more than 8% of your household gross income, you're exempt. If the subsidies are slaughtered, over half the nation would be exempt from the mandate.

This latter is an important point. Because you're exempt if your income is below a threshold, Roberts found that it is an income tax, not a capitation/poll tax in violation of the Constitution.
2012-06-28 11:28:53 AM  
2 votes:
It's becoming further and further more difficult for me to comprehend how anyone could be believe that "Obamacare" and mandates are some Far Left Marxist Overreach when it was introduced into the national conversation by Conservative Republicans and the GOP in the 90s and now upheld by a Chief Justice, appointed by a conservative President, who votes along conservative lines the vast majority of the time
2012-06-28 11:28:37 AM  
2 votes:

WombatControl: bdub77: Doesn't matter. Americans got health care. This is a win for the American people, not just Obama. Obama will now go down as the first president who got Americans health care. His legacy in that regard, not to mention countless other things he's done as president, will solidify him as one of the greats.

And yes I expect him to fully whip Romney's ass in November.

WHISKY. TANGO. FOXTROT.

Really? Now Americans have health care? You mean no one in this country had health care prior to Obama? Is this what you really think?

Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.

Nothing is free. Health care is not free, and it can't be made free by government fiat. If the liberals got their way we'd have a system in which everyone but the ultra rich who could afford private insurace (or black-market care) is stuck waiting in lines for treatments they may never get.

If the statists got their way and we magically had an NHS-style system in the United States there would be riots in the streets because Americans do not take kindly to the government dictating to them what they can and cannot have. At least those Americans who still believe in the spirit of this nation's Founding, anyway.


so except for the part where we are buying health insurance from the same healthcare companies we always have been.

who said anything was free? why are you just making things up? Troll harder

the only bureaucrats that have tried to deny me healthcare in my life (yes, did the whole cancer thing) were the ones working at the healthcare company that I'd been paying for 10 years. it was cool that they took my money for a decade, but when i got sick and they tried to skip on the bill I had to fight them tooth and nail

thank god for the healthcare reform bill. the patient bill of rights will help keep any future cancer patients that have worked and payed for healthcare (like me) from trying to be kicked out the door when the fat cats decide they dont want to live up to their end of the bargain.

the only people getting free stuff around here seems to be the health insurance companies themselves. it's their constant fleecing of the public and their part in the ever climbing healthcare costs that made this bill necessary. conveniently enough they are also the ones that will benefit the most. (makes you wonder who this bill was really for)

you're whole post reads like a man living in a parallel world where things are kinda close to the way they are here, except where they are different in ever way shape and form.
2012-06-28 11:26:00 AM  
2 votes:
*cries tears of joy*

/is pushing 50
//has a pre-existing condition
///can't afford a health care plan right now
2012-06-28 11:25:22 AM  
2 votes:

WombatControl: All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care.


The private insurance model rations care as well, they just do it based on the profit motive. I don't know about you, but I would like the profit motive as far removed from health care decisions as possible.
2012-06-28 11:23:11 AM  
2 votes:
Now, the missing piece: the public option, like a Medicare for younger folks.

Then, people are all covered by something, at least, and then can opt to buy into a private insurance system if they want.

The best model for the public option? It's successful, expanding, and just sitting there waiting to be further implemented....
2012-06-28 11:21:42 AM  
2 votes:

make me some tea: RichieLaw: What is this I don't even

/But seriously. I am so effing shocked right now. That this conservative court would uphold this, and that ROBERTS would be the swing vote.....just no words....

Yeah, I'm rather floored too. I really expected them to shiatcan the thing.

As I said in the other thread, though...

This is not a victory for liberals. This is a victory for Obama, the health insurance industry and their lobbyists.


I would disagree. Even though it is not single-payer it has extended coverage to millions and gotten rid of that bullshiat pre-existing condition nonsense. That, in and of itself, is a victory for everyone.
2012-06-28 11:21:33 AM  
2 votes:

Kuroshin: MasterThief: Silver lining based on SCOTUSBlog: The mandate was not a legit use of the commerce clause, but it was OK as a tax.

So yes, Obama and the Democrats did, in fact, raise taxes on the middle class. After repeatedly promising not to.

Not mine. I have health insurance.

So yeah, not really.

/a really weird way of doing things - punitive taxation...


uh ya, really

i have health insurance now through my employer. it is a small company, less than 20 people.

now they are going to drop our insurance cause they can't afford it.

so now i get to buy a product only where my government allows, or get taxed if i don't.

/the lib jack off fest here is priceless in it's ignorance.

//what's the lib equivalent of a tea-bagger??
2012-06-28 11:21:02 AM  
2 votes:
Thunderpipes
Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes.

Cue the paranoia. ZOMG, Congress is giving me a tax break for havign a child, now I have an irresistable urge to knock up every fertile woman in sight!

Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Secret ballots, how do they work?

Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you.

As opposed to placing a tax on imported cars, like some kind of tariff?

Bonus: good luck defining "American car": A Chrysler built in Canada? A Honda built in Ohio?

Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Taxes are on transactions, not ideas. You could start taxing churches, perhaps, but I'm not seeing how this ruling makes that possible where it wasn't before.

I love the simple-minded slippery slope arguments. "The gubmint is telling us we gotta have seat belts in our cars? Next thing you know they'll be telling us what we can drive. The gubmint is mandating background checks for gun purchases? Its the first step in takin' away all our guns, the ones the Constitution guarantees us!"

News flash: Before this ruling, the government had the right to tax you, and now they still do.
2012-06-28 11:19:41 AM  
2 votes:

Phinn: The government can't force me to buy insurance, but they will try to tax me if I don't.

Eh.

For one, the Left has tried to get away from its Tax-and-Spend label ever since Clinton, but now it will have to own it. That's sorta nice.

But more importantly, the federal government is so inept at collecting taxes from people like me, I will NEVER have to actually pay it.

Really, anyone with two brain cells to rub together can avoid all federal taxes. It's really not that hard.


I've said it once, and I'll say it again.

Tax and spend is better than borrow and spend, and the reasons should be obvious.

Eventually, with borrow and spend, no amount of tax revenue will cover the increased cost of servicing the debt and the interest payments.

With tax and spend, you get some real motivation to cut spending, because you're actually paying for everything, everything! the citizens are demanding.

Borrow and spend is the ultimate in kick the can down the road policy making.
2012-06-28 11:18:33 AM  
2 votes:
In one sense, it's a win that the PPACA isn't overturned, given that the current political environment is too toxic to try to get anything better and, while it's not great, it is an improvement.

In the other sense, this will just delay single payer or a public option by a few additional decades, keeping us behind the dozens of other industrialized nations who do have universal health care.
2012-06-28 11:18:14 AM  
2 votes:
Romney: The mandate is a tax. You raised taxes.
Obama: Did you raise taxes on Massachusetts when you were a governor?
Romney: No, of course not, I...
Obama: *trollface*
2012-06-28 11:15:01 AM  
2 votes:
~ Congratulations to Romney and Conservatives everywhere on the continued success of their healthcare plan! ~

6 Years Ago: Heritage Foundation Praised Romneycare For Building 'Patient-Centered' Health Care Market:

Link

MOFFIT (HERITAGE FOUNDATION): We've been honored by your request...to participate in giving our best advise and our technical assistance in designing a new and different kind of health insurance market. A market that is patient-centered and consumer-based, which will ease access to affordable coverage for thousands of Bay State citizens. This is new. It's a new market, where individuals and families will be able to own and control their health insurance and take it with them to from job to job... Nothing like it has ever been attempted anywhere else in the United States. So Massachusetts has raised the bar for every state in the union. And that's the applause you've given to your public officials here today is going to echo far beyond the hallow halls of this historic place.
2012-06-28 11:13:31 AM  
2 votes:

Waldo Pepper:

so what if you are healthy and simply pay for whatever doctor visits you need at the time you are penalized by the government for not buy a product/service?


That would be fine if the vast majority of those without insurance paid as they went, but they don't. That costs all of the rest of us.

Obamacare isn't a great solution, but it's an attempt to solve a problem that the GOP has ignored.
2012-06-28 11:10:39 AM  
2 votes:

WombatControl: Legally, this was a piss-poor decision. Yes, the Commerce Clause end of things was upheld, but the SCOTUS basically saved Congress by doing something that Congress never intended to do. That's judicial activism. If Congress had intended the mandate to be a tax, they could have done so directly. SCOTUS inferred that's what they did, which is not the proper role of a judge.

Politically, anyone who wants to argue this is good for Obama is kidding themselves. This is the worst outcome for Obama. (The best being the bill being upheld under the Commerce Clause, the second best being the bill being totally struck down.) Why is this the worst outcome?

1.) This just energized the living fark out of the GOP base. It was ObamaCare that motivated the Tea Party in 2010. Now it's going to do the same in 2012.

2.) It just took away their "RomneyCare" attacks. (Yes, the whole "RomneyCare" bit was incoherent to begin with, but it's less coherent now.)

3.) Obama is now responsible for a major middle-class tax increase. After saying that he wouldn't raise taxes. Repeatedly. This will be in every Romney attack ad through this election season. It should be in them now.

From now on, it's not "ObamaCare." It's the "Obama Health Care Tax". Let's have the President own his massive tax hike right through to November.


Umm, they upheld the law congress passed. How is that "doing something that Congress never intended to do"? They said it is legal when you look at it like a tax, but they changed nothing.

And taking away the "Romney Care" attacks? This makes them better.... If Romney goes coco-bananas over the law, Obama can point to Romney care and say "He thought it was a good idea before, why not now"

And it's only a tax if you don't have Health Care Insurance.
2012-06-28 11:10:20 AM  
2 votes:
So Obama swore up and down this wasn't a tax, but it was obvious all along that it is.
So Romney says this is a bad law, but he was proud to sign it in Massachusetts.

shiat smells the same all over.
2012-06-28 11:10:07 AM  
2 votes:

Anti_illuminati: fluffytuff: I'm not a very political person, and I haven't really kept up on this whole Obamacare thing. Can somebody explain to me just what the hell happened, or provide a link that explains it short bus style?

/thanks

If you don't have health insurance, when you file your taxes, you'll have to pay a bit more or receive a little less.


It's like not having a mortgage and not having children.
2012-06-28 11:09:57 AM  
2 votes:

YoungSwedishBlonde: Holy farking shiat, Roberts upholds Obamacare? My mind is full of billions and billions and billions upon billions of f*ck.


It was originally a conservative alternative to more liberal policies.

i.imgur.comView Full Size


The fact that people are in disbelief just shows how absurdly partisan the Roberts court has been acting of late.
2012-06-28 11:08:24 AM  
2 votes:

SevenizGud: Great, now I get to buy health care insurance for another 16 million losers.

On the plus side, this now paves the way for the gubmint to force all people to buy a treadmill, because, hey, some people are fat, and everyone is already in that market, because all people would be less fat if they had a treadmill. Gosh, it makes me want to sing

...and the laaaaaaaand oooo----ooo---fff the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

Reward the FAIL, America...what's the worst that could happen?

/worst decision since Kelo


Generally, you won't be buying squat. It just forced several million able bodied people to get insurance for themselves. If anything, it should reduce the load on you. If you're worried, invest in some health insurance companies to offset your tax loss.
2012-06-28 11:07:07 AM  
2 votes:
Roberts? More like Robespierre, right Freepers?
2012-06-28 11:06:51 AM  
2 votes:
I don't like this POS law, but I'm laughing my ass off! That sneering "Obamacare" label doesn't seem like such a good idea now, does it rightwingnuts?

Dumbasses. The Democrats beat you at your own game. They knew how to write the language so that the Commerce Clause would not be an issue to the Court. You tried to poison the bill and they beat you. You opposed the law based on grounds they had already beat you on.

All politicians suck.
2012-06-28 11:05:59 AM  
2 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: Where will that money come from?


Broaden Medicare tax base for high-income taxpayers: $210.2 billion
Annual fee on health insurance providers: $60 billion
40% excise tax on health coverage in excess of $10,200/$27,500: $32 billion
Impose annual fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs: $27 billion
Impose 2.3% excise tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices: $20 billion
Raise 7.5% Adjusted Gross Income floor on medical expenses deduction to 10%: $15.2 billion
Limit contributions to flexible spending arrangements in cafeteria plans to $2,500: $13 billion
All other revenue sources: $14.9 billion
Original budget estimates included a provision to require information reporting on payments to corporations, which had been projected to raise $17 billion, but the provision was repealed.[43]

-----

The CBO expected the subsidies to cost something like $350 through 2019
2012-06-28 11:01:36 AM  
2 votes:

soporific: This will not cost Obama votes, and in fact this could help shore up support, because the people who really benefit will now have a motivation to get out there and vote. If the Dems are smart, and who knows they might surprise us, then they'll make sure those pesky non-voting young people realize that letting Republicans take control will directly impact them. If Republicans make this a central issue, they might motivate a lot of voting against them.


This. Anyone dense enough to use a Supreme Court decision upholding an act of Congress as a major motivation for voting against Obama was never going to vote for Obama in the first place.

If anything, it will increase conservative apathy cause the teabaggers don't think their Lord-and-Savior Mitt Romney (lol) can be trusted to do anything.
2012-06-28 11:01:06 AM  
2 votes:

truthseeker2083: Good! Next step, single payer!


We can only hope. I consider myself more to the right of center, but single payer is the only real way to do this.

Now there is absolutely ZERO reason for a health insurance company to lower premiums. They know people will buy insurance (if it's cheaper than the tax), so they can keep their prices just high enough so the cost/benefit is to buy the insurance instead of paying the tax. That's the magic premium cost right there. And, that'll be for a super-high deductible plan as well. Everything else will cost more. All the other companies will do the same (effectively an oligopoly). This won't make insurance any cheaper.
2012-06-28 10:59:21 AM  
2 votes:
Well, there ya go. We now have Democrats firmly cheering for a Republican healthcare bill, and Republicans can continue feeling persecuted.
2012-06-28 10:59:11 AM  
2 votes:

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the things that people don't like about Obamacare is that they'll be required to buy health insurance that they feel they don't need as they are in generally good health?


That is the whole issue. Say you're 25 and you say, "I'm young and healthy, I don't need insurance." So you don't buy any. Then, you get cancer and you try to get insurance, nobody will insure you because you have cancer.
2012-06-28 10:58:28 AM  
2 votes:

wxboy: So how exactly does this work? I've always thought the best way to encourage the purchase of health insurance was to either provide a large tax deduction or just allow the cost of insurance to be subtracted from the final income tax amount.

Is that essentially what will happen, or is it something else?

I admit I haven't been paying close attention to this case (or ACA for that matter).


My understanding is it's basically like a tax incentive, but in reverse...you get the "incentive" to buy health insurance by paying a surcharge on your taxes if you DON'T buy it. That's basicallly how Romneycare works in Mass, at least.

I was surprised at the ruling, was expecting a 5-4 shootdown, personally.

As for the "scabby bandage" analogy someone else used, I agree...but this particular scabby bandage was originally proposed by conservatives, then co-opted by liberals. Meanwhile, the original conservatives have neither come up with anything better nor summoned the intestinal fortitude to get rid of things like Medicare.

So, it's better than nothing...I hope.
2012-06-28 10:58:12 AM  
2 votes:

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Thunderpipes: 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Oh yeah, the States just love turning away Federal money.


Y/es, didn't they all turn away the stimulus money? And Colorado, home of the teabagging bootstrappy self starting libertarians, they are totes fighting that fire of thiers without a single federal dollar or plane, right? Oh wait...oh ....ooohhhhhhhhh awwwkwarrrrd
2012-06-28 10:56:46 AM  
2 votes:
Legally, this was a piss-poor decision. Yes, the Commerce Clause end of things was upheld, but the SCOTUS basically saved Congress by doing something that Congress never intended to do. That's judicial activism. If Congress had intended the mandate to be a tax, they could have done so directly. SCOTUS inferred that's what they did, which is not the proper role of a judge.

Politically, anyone who wants to argue this is good for Obama is kidding themselves. This is the worst outcome for Obama. (The best being the bill being upheld under the Commerce Clause, the second best being the bill being totally struck down.) Why is this the worst outcome?

1.) This just energized the living fark out of the GOP base. It was ObamaCare that motivated the Tea Party in 2010. Now it's going to do the same in 2012.

2.) It just took away their "RomneyCare" attacks. (Yes, the whole "RomneyCare" bit was incoherent to begin with, but it's less coherent now.)

3.) Obama is now responsible for a major middle-class tax increase. After saying that he wouldn't raise taxes. Repeatedly. This will be in every Romney attack ad through this election season. It should be in them now.

From now on, it's not "ObamaCare." It's the "Obama Health Care Tax". Let's have the President own his massive tax hike right through to November.
2012-06-28 10:56:33 AM  
2 votes:
Woo-Hoo

This healthcare law wasnt' what I wanted but it is better than what we had, and I am happy with this decision.
2012-06-28 10:56:19 AM  
2 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: And those that can't afford it? Who will pay for them?


You mean besides the subsidies already built in to the bill to help those who can't afford it?
2012-06-28 10:55:12 AM  
2 votes:
Good! Next step, single payer!
2012-06-28 10:54:33 AM  
2 votes:

RantCasey: And commence the Republican butthurt.....NOW.


Is butthurt covered under Obamacare?
2012-06-28 10:52:54 AM  
2 votes:

Derek Force: So does this or does this not mean I have to wait in the ER for 3 hours because its filled with non-insured people who have the flu or a splinter?


You were doing that before!
2012-06-28 10:47:57 AM  
2 votes:
Ah, so a descendent of the conservative market-based health care plan designed by the Heritage Foundation that suddenly became "socialism" when the Clintons got interested in it finally got passed. What a dark day for conservatives who favor market-based solutions.
2012-06-28 10:47:25 AM  
2 votes:
Step 2.

Take the supersaturates of diabetes inducing sugar out of our beverages.
The cardiovascular diesease inducing trans-fat out of our food.
The pink slime out of our meat.
The industrial food process out of our health-care costs.
2012-06-28 10:43:08 AM  
2 votes:
I've been telling people all along that they already deal every year with having to pay out for government mandated private auto insurance and that this wasn't much different. I was told, "but, but...I don't have to own a car!" I laughed. "You can't get to work, run errands, or do much of anything without a car outside of perhaps a few major urban areas," I told them. "No, you do have to own a car and you have to buy insurance for it and the government tells you that you must carry it and bring them proof you did so, period."

Mind you, I think that "Obamacare" is a horrible idea, will make the problem worse, create more debt, and I have a sneaking suspicion that was done on purpose by some Liberals (not Obama, he just wants to look like he's doing something...) within Congress at the time to ensure that we'd have socialized medicine in a decade.

But Constitutional? Yes. Just because something is a really horrible idea doesn't make it unconstitutional. That's a different argument.
2012-06-28 10:42:54 AM  
2 votes:
Lets look at al the awsome new and increased taxes in this fil
Taxes that took effect in 2010:

1. Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals (Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,961-1,971

2. Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113

3. "Black liquor" tax hike (Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 105

4. Tax on Innovator Drug Companies ($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,971-1,980

5. Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike ($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,004

6. Tax on Indoor Tanning Services ($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,397-2,399

Taxes that took effect in 2011:

7. Medicine Cabinet Tax ($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957-1,959

8. HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike ($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,959

Tax that took effect in 2012:

9. Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Min$/Jan 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957

Taxes that take effect in 2013:

10. Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): Creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income: Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93


Capital Gains
Dividends
Other*

2012
15%
15%
35%

2013+
23.8%
43.4%
43.4%

*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.

11. Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax ($86.8 bil/Jan 2013): Current law and changes:


First $200,000
($250,000 Married)
Employer/Employee
All Remaining Wages
Employer/Employee

Current Law
1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed
1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed

Obamacare Tax Hike
1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed
1.45%/2.35%
3.8% self-employed

Bill: PPACA, Reconciliation Act; Page: 2000-2003; 87-93

12. Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers ($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exempts items retailing for
13. Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI ($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994-1,995

14. Flexible Spending Account Cap - aka "Special Needs Kids Tax" ($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Indexed to inflation after 2013. There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,388-2,389

15. Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D ($4.5 bil/Jan 2013) Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994

16. $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives ($0.6 bil/Jan 2013). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,995-2,000

Taxes that take effect in 2014:

17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following


1 Adult
2 Adults
3+ Adults

2014
1% AGI/$95
1% AGI/$190
1% AGI/$285

2015
2% AGI/$325
2% AGI/$650
2% AGI/$975

2016 +
2.5% AGI/$695
2.5% AGI/$1390
2.5% AGI/$2085

Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS). Bill: PPACA; Page: 317-337

18. Employer Mandate Tax (Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer). Bill: PPACA; Page: 345-346

Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years

19. Tax on Health Insurers ($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. Phases in gradually until 2018. Fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,986-1,993

Taxes that take effect in 2018:

20. Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans ($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on "Cadillac" health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). Higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family) for early retirees and high-risk professions. CPI +1 percentage point indexed. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,941-1,956

Read more: http://www.atr.org/tax-hikes-obamacare-scotus-rule-a6996#ixzz1z6D8OUVp
2012-06-28 10:42:41 AM  
2 votes:
I can't help but think this will mean that I will end up paying more for my plan, or that my employer will drop the benefit.
2012-06-28 10:42:28 AM  
2 votes:
Now let's take it back to what it would have been before it was watered down for the cons who said they would support it.
2012-06-28 10:42:25 AM  
2 votes:
You know the best part about this? How many Supreme Court decisions get overturned? That's right - it's here to stay.
2012-06-28 10:42:24 AM  
2 votes:

error 303: I got a breaking news alert on my phone from CNN that the individual mandate was struck down, then a correction 15 minutes later.

You suck so hard CNN. I hope people lose their jobs over this one.

CNN - The president has been shot.

Correction - The president has shot a personal best three under par this weekend.


Delete the CNN app and get the AP News app.
2012-06-28 10:42:02 AM  
2 votes:

Thunderpipes: RolandGunner: Well, in the long run it's the best possible outcome if the law was going to be upheld. By changing the mandate penalty to a tax and, ruling out the commerce clause justification, the bill is upheld without issuing a blanket authorization for the federal government to force the purchase of goods and services.

But it just did. If Obama wants you to do something, you do it, or the feds tax you. That is force. Just wait until Pubs in the states start pushing something you don't like and enforce it with a tax..... Will you like it then?


Hasn't got anything to do with what Obama wants.

.
2012-06-28 10:41:38 AM  
2 votes:
If the mandate had gotten struck down, we wouldn't suddenly be presented with a public option. We're decades away from that in this country no matter what.
2012-06-28 10:40:49 AM  
2 votes:

PanicMan: Will need to read the decision and dissents before we fully understand what just happened.


Humanity won. With a giant push from John Roberts, no less.
2012-06-28 10:40:15 AM  
2 votes:

ManateeGag: where ARE the normal crop of conservitrolls? can't take it when they lose one? they should come take their lumps like real men.


Problem is, after re-listening to the oral arguments last night, I am forced to agree with the decision of the court that, although Congress cant compel you to engage in commerce, they can tax you as they see fit.
2012-06-28 10:39:18 AM  
2 votes:

St_Francis_P: Lsherm: I was kind of hoping that they would strike it down and we'd get a true public option out of it, but this is probably for the best. Baby steps.

Kind of what I was hoping, too.


The problem is Congress. If "Obamacare" had been struck down, we'd revert to the old, even-more-broken system, and wouldn't have a chance in Hell of any other reform until Democrats had another supermajority. And even then, they'd have to deal with the Blue Dogs.
2012-06-28 10:38:03 AM  
2 votes:

EatenTheSun: So the Commerce clause actually has limits, but the Feds can create any sort of tax they want? This is great news!



and this is why we'll never have significant tax reform. congress will never give up this power.
2012-06-28 10:36:13 AM  
2 votes:

SphericalTime: Awwww. I was hoping for single payer during my lifetime.


There's no way we would have gotten single payer unless all the Rs and Blue Dog Ds were gone.
2012-06-28 10:35:55 AM  
2 votes:

RolandGunner: Well, in the long run it's the best possible outcome if the law was going to be upheld. By changing the mandate penalty to a tax and, ruling out the commerce clause justification, the bill is upheld without issuing a blanket authorization for the federal government to force the purchase of goods and services.


But it just did. If Obama wants you to do something, you do it, or the feds tax you. That is force. Just wait until Pubs in the states start pushing something you don't like and enforce it with a tax..... Will you like it then?
2012-06-28 10:35:35 AM  
2 votes:
Does this mean we'll go back to calling it Romneycare?
2012-06-28 10:35:06 AM  
2 votes:

Andromeda: I'm amazed it was Roberts. That's just something I was not expecting.

So goddamn it I guess we now have to care about our fellow man like Jesus said?!


Woah, let's not get carried away, alright?

GAT_00: I bet. I can't believe Roberts swung on it either. Did it go 6-3? Seems unlikely that if Roberts went for it that Kennedy didn't as well.


Justice Kennedy, I am disappoint...

From the Live Blog:
In Plain English: The Affordable Care Act, including its individual mandate that virtually all Americans buy health insurance, is constitutional. There were not five votes to uphold it on the ground that Congress could use its power to regulate commerce between the states to require everyone to buy health insurance. However, five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power. That is all that matters. Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn't comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding.
2012-06-28 10:34:47 AM  
2 votes:

Lsherm: I was kind of hoping that they would strike it down and we'd get a true public option out of it, but this is probably for the best. Baby steps.


Kind of what I was hoping, too.
2012-06-28 10:33:00 AM  
2 votes:
So much for that promise to not raise taxes on the middle class.
2012-06-28 10:32:23 AM  
2 votes:
You KNOW Romney is going to beat his chest about Massachusetts health care law now.

Oh, and abandon his base?

HAHAHHA.....your move. Rmoney.
2012-06-28 10:31:32 AM  
2 votes:

TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.


We knew he "owned" the Supreme Court when they wouldn't hear Orly's birth certificate case. This is just further proof, as if it was needed.
2012-06-28 10:30:36 AM  
2 votes:
i.imgur.comView Full Size
2012-06-28 10:30:00 AM  
2 votes:
WHOOOOOOOOOO! Suck it, Republitards!
2012-06-28 10:30:00 AM  
2 votes:
I couldn't believe everything in there survived intact. I expect some clauses here or there to get struck down. Especially didn't think the court would say "fark you, it's a tax, not interstate commerce, biatches. OK, pass".
2012-06-28 10:19:15 AM  
2 votes:
Can't force you to have health insurance, but they can tax you for it
2012-06-30 06:20:39 PM  
1 vote:

mgshamster: genner: mgshamster: Waldo Pepper: Surool: ...and yet you don't biatch about mandatory car insurance

Sit down, Waldo!
[img.photobucket.com image 320x240]

auto insurance is not mandatory. If I don't have a driver's license I'm to required to have auto insurance.

Health insurance is similar. If you don't have a human body, you're not required to have health insurance.

/For cats and dogs, health insurance is optional.

I can sell my car and take the.bus. I can't turn into an animal.

Humans are animals.


Then they should be exempt like dogs and cats.<