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(US Supreme Court) NewsFlash Supreme Court rules that Obamacare is constitutional. The bland mask that is Mitt Romney's face twitches with something called "emotion"   (supremecourt.gov) divider line 3382
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14914 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jun 2012 at 10:27 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-06-28 02:11:01 PM

Kibbler: Imagine tomorrow night's Right Wing Supreme Court Justice Poker Night.

*flushing sound*

*gurgling*

*gasping*

Scalia: Give him another.

Alito: I dunno, he's starting to turn blue, I...

Scalia: ANOTHER! I SAID ANOTHER!

*flushing sound*

Scalia: OK hold on for a minute, let me drop a deuce before the next one.


OK, so i've read this entire thread, and this is, by far, the funniest thing posted yet
 
2012-06-28 02:11:05 PM

Rindred: Since there's no way I'll ever reach the end of this thread from my mobile device, I'd like to say a couple of things before I give up and actually do some work here at the office...

[...]

In conclusion, I just want to say thank-you in clearest terms. So, thank you. More decisions like this, please.


Read Part IV of the decision and come back. This was quite possibly the worst of the entire array of potential outcomes this case could have had.
 
2012-06-28 02:12:19 PM
A couple of years ago I had to have a procedure thru outpatient surgery. Total cost was approx. $2000. My deductible was $4000. I told them not to bill the insurance I would just pay the bill and if I needed to I would submit the paid bill to the insurance company. The office had to have a conference on how to accept payment without insurance. By the time I paid the bill they had reduced it to under $1000.(I have no idea why but apparently they decided to charge me what the insurance would have paid).
How would something like that work with Obamacare ? Would I have been forced to submit it thru the insurance and have to pay the full amount because it went thru the insurance first?
 
2012-06-28 02:12:27 PM
Real conservatives need to stop listening to psychobabble from PhonyCon pubs like Weakly Standard

America was pretty much neutered today, led by a Chief Justice who was appointed by a FraudCon Bush II and pushed by a FraudCon GOP senate.

No more whiny psychobable...time to pee or get off the pot. There needs to be some serious action from Real Conservatives to start fixing this nation
 
2012-06-28 02:12:59 PM

HeartBurnKid: The government has an explicit power to levy taxes. This is a tax. End of story.


Yes, we both know that. However, multiple SCOTUS judges think it's valid under commerce clause, which was my original point.
 
2012-06-28 02:13:02 PM

The Reverend Smith: So much for that promise to not raise taxes on the middle class.


I see you remained jacked in to the talking point machine during this time of crisis. Well done, your masters will be pleased.
 
2012-06-28 02:13:20 PM

Big Man On Campus: Voiceofreason01: no he didn't

/he explicitly mentions that those types of taxes would be unconstitutional

I'm reading up, but I don't see what you're talking about. Do you at least have a page/paragraph number to back up your claim? On reading this, it does indeed sound like he's saying Congress has the power to enact taxes for anything it wants.


There is currently a federal child tax credit. What's the difference between a tax credit for some and increased taxes for everyone else? How is that not already the Congress imposing a tax penalty for not having children? If they can do that, why not a tax for not having health insurance?
 
2012-06-28 02:13:42 PM

NateGrey: Real conservatives need to stop listening to psychobabble from PhonyCon pubs like Weakly Standard

America was pretty much neutered today, led by a Chief Justice who was appointed by a FraudCon Bush II and pushed by a FraudCon GOP senate.

No more whiny psychobable...time to pee or get off the pot. There needs to be some serious action from Real Conservatives to start fixing this nation


Wow, they're turning on each other. Nice.
 
2012-06-28 02:14:10 PM
This is my new favorite quote. Got it right from a Freepers mouth in response to the ACA being ruled constitutional:

"The only problem that Liberals have with the history of chattel slavery in the America is that the slaves were privately owned."
 
2012-06-28 02:14:30 PM

meat0918: He also claims that we can defeat the demons controlling the Jews with love, but he himself hates Jews?


Well I've been accused of hating Jews but also of loving Jews like sexually so
 
2012-06-28 02:15:05 PM

GhostFish: I don't think anyone is really happy with the mandate. It's a patch job on a leaking tire.

Some people want to ignore the damage to the tire and just drive on it.
Some people see the patch as a working solution until the tire can be replaced.
Some people want to throw away the patch, and MacGyver a new one from pixie dust and the flesh of the poor.

But I don't think anyone sees the patch as a permanent solution.


No, YOU aren't happy about it. I'm happy as f*ck.
 
2012-06-28 02:15:49 PM

ontariolightning: Can someone answer this question. does this mean that americans wont have to pay for doctor appointments and surgeries or procedures?


It depends on what kind of health insurance package you buy.
 
2012-06-28 02:15:51 PM
i208.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-28 02:16:13 PM

hbk72777: But I am not paying the tax. I can't afford it. If I could, I'd buy farking health insurance in the first place.

See you in jail.


If you can't afford $700 in mandate penalty, you're almost certainly earning little enough to fall under the exemptions to the penalty. Depending on how much the subsidies are funded, up to half of the entire country could be exempt. So, mazel tov! You can continue to be 10 minutes from bankruptcy! No jail involved!
 
2012-06-28 02:16:16 PM

Mentat: Jjaro: Well, it is. Just ask all the people on my Facebook feed who posted things like "This ruling just led me to donate $100 to Romney." They are speaking with their wallet.

So their response is to give money to the man who implemented the plan on which ObamaCare is based? 'k.


Not really the point. At all.
 
2012-06-28 02:16:35 PM

NateGrey: Real conservatives need to stop listening to psychobabble from PhonyCon pubs like Weakly Standard

America was pretty much neutered today, led by a Chief Justice who was appointed by a FraudCon Bush II and pushed by a FraudCon GOP senate.

No more whiny psychobable...time to pee or get off the pot. There needs to be some serious action from Real Conservatives to start fixing this nation


------


Sadly, we all know how this ends. Not with the whimper of submission by the masses, but the inevitable escalation of free men against those who subvert the Constitution in order to enslave. Predictably it will start with disharmony and devolve into passive resistance. Eventually one man will resist to the point of confrontation with servants who act as his master, and those servants will lay him to waste. It devolves rapidly from there until free men retain their freedom through every means necessary.

As much as I abhor violence, I will not shed five tears for when justice is served.

www.guysmith.org

i abhor violence, really - it just sounds like i'm masturbating to a violent fantasy.
 
2012-06-28 02:16:37 PM

LockeOak: Big Man On Campus: Voiceofreason01: no he didn't

/he explicitly mentions that those types of taxes would be unconstitutional

I'm reading up, but I don't see what you're talking about. Do you at least have a page/paragraph number to back up your claim? On reading this, it does indeed sound like he's saying Congress has the power to enact taxes for anything it wants.

There is currently a federal child tax credit. What's the difference between a tax credit for some and increased taxes for everyone else? How is that not already the Congress imposing a tax penalty for not having children? If they can do that, why not a tax for not having health insurance?


Having a child is a positive act, you are deciding to make major changes in your life.
Not purchasing health insurance is doing nothing, it is inaction. Why should inaction be taxed?
 
2012-06-28 02:16:43 PM

gremlin1: A couple of years ago I had to have a procedure thru outpatient surgery. Total cost was approx. $2000. My deductible was $4000. I told them not to bill the insurance I would just pay the bill and if I needed to I would submit the paid bill to the insurance company. The office had to have a conference on how to accept payment without insurance. By the time I paid the bill they had reduced it to under $1000.(I have no idea why but apparently they decided to charge me what the insurance would have paid).
How would something like that work with Obamacare ? Would I have been forced to submit it thru the insurance and have to pay the full amount because it went thru the insurance first?


Medical accounting is bizzare. I don't uinderstand it.
 
2012-06-28 02:16:44 PM
I see the GOP is already taking up the mantra of 'taxes/deception' as their rapid response propaganda reply to this decision on obamacare.
 
Ant
2012-06-28 02:16:47 PM

dognose4: So, the new tax on healthy people (that don't want or need health insurance) stands.


You don't want it or need it until suddenly you do. That's how insurance works.

Maybe you'll get lucky and never need it, but you never know.
 
2012-06-28 02:17:24 PM
As part of the lulz:

"As president, Mitt will nominate judges in the mold of Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Thomas, and Alito," reads the 'Courts & The Constitution' section of Romney's campaign website.

Wonder how quick they change that!
 
2012-06-28 02:18:50 PM

Big Man On Campus: Having a child is a positive act


you haven't met some of my relatives.
 
2012-06-28 02:19:32 PM

gremlin1: A couple of years ago I had to have a procedure thru outpatient surgery. Total cost was approx. $2000. My deductible was $4000. I told them not to bill the insurance I would just pay the bill and if I needed to I would submit the paid bill to the insurance company. The office had to have a conference on how to accept payment without insurance. By the time I paid the bill they had reduced it to under $1000.(I have no idea why but apparently they decided to charge me what the insurance would have paid).
How would something like that work with Obamacare ? Would I have been forced to submit it thru the insurance and have to pay the full amount because it went thru the insurance first?


No. You still make the payment and send the receipt/order to the insurance carrier. You'll receive a standard EoB that applies the amount that you paid out of pocket to hospital to your deductible. The only issues you might have would be because you had it pre-approved through your insurer for x amount of dollars and their payment system might not be able to adjust accordingly. Payment remittance is almost never a problem, if it is, never go back to that hospital.

Looks like you were given a "pay in full" rate rather than an insurer rate, and this works well for all three parties involved - you, the hospital and the insurer. I do the same thing when I have to pay my 90/10 or 80/20 split on hospital visits (which is rare).
 
2012-06-28 02:19:34 PM

dandude23: This sucks for poor people,now you get to choose between insurance and food,now everyone in this country is born into the system by default ,GG.


Ahhhhh hahahahha holy shiat.

Do you actually know anything about the bill beyond OBAMA BAD?
 
2012-06-28 02:19:37 PM

david_gaithersburg: FlashHarry: gaith

.
.
Well. Aren't you lucky, and young, and healthy. Good for you, screw everyone else. Amiright?


actually, i'm 43 and have bad knees. but thanks.
 
2012-06-28 02:20:03 PM

brobdiggy: 2. Government realizes this actually will increase the cost of health care. Needs to reign in costs.
3. Government tells people "We pay for your health care, so we can dictate your health".
4. Government bans Cheetos, DQ Blizzards, and King Size Candy Bars.


Jackpot777: So don't end up having no DQ Blizzards, get DirecTV?!?


Did somebody say DQ Blizzard (nsfw)?
 
2012-06-28 02:20:20 PM

Biological Ali: Rational people arguing in good faith understand that when the context is "raising" or "lowering" taxes, it's income taxes being talked about. This new argument is basically "Cigarette taxes going up means Obama has broken his promise!" all over again, only it's somehow even more retarded.



Rational people realize that if the federal government raises taxes whether it's done via the income tax or through some kind of other tax, it's still a tax increase.

But somehow it's my fault that Obama made a blanket statement.
 
2012-06-28 02:20:45 PM

that bosnian sniper: Rindred: Since there's no way I'll ever reach the end of this thread from my mobile device, I'd like to say a couple of things before I give up and actually do some work here at the office...

[...]

In conclusion, I just want to say thank-you in clearest terms. So, thank you. More decisions like this, please.

Read Part IV of the decision and come back. This was quite possibly the worst of the entire array of potential outcomes this case could have had.


And that part really doesn't make much sense to me. Couldn't Congress just repeal Medicaid entirely and then, in an entirely separate bill, create Medicaid Part 2: Electric Boogaloo?
 
2012-06-28 02:21:06 PM

heap: Big Man On Campus: Having a child is a positive act

you haven't met some of my relatives.


I wonder what the future tax credit on well-behaved children will be.

/my sense of humor is very dry, BUT IT EXISTS.
 
2012-06-28 02:21:16 PM
This is hilarious...the official teabagger talking point really is on a pedantic, semantic debate over this being called a "tax". It's even the main page story on foxnews. In less than a few hours, that went from being a laughable, idiotic whiney line that a few derpers used, to the full blown right wing battle cry.

Holy f*cking sh*t, fellas...you look pathetic. This is really what it's come down to? "B-b-b-but Roberts sez it TAX! TAAAX!". Part of me is cracking up, and the other part feels painfully sorry for you. Just give it up...
 
2012-06-28 02:21:29 PM

Coelacanth: JerseyTim: If I talk in a big bold font, it means I'm right and everyone should listen to me

When I talk in a big bold font it's because I need glasses.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-28 02:21:39 PM
So, the other day, the government decides to increase my taxes. Simply because I rent my house and didn't buy it. Why do all those home owners have to pay less taxes?

Then, not only did they increase taxes for not owning a home, they also increased taxes on me because I don't have children. The act of not doing something (farking for procreation) caused the government to increase my taxes.

Now, the trifecta, my inaction to procure health insurance caused the government to raise my taxes again.

That's it, Canada, the capitalism capital of the world, here I come!
 
2012-06-28 02:21:47 PM

snocone: All I want for Christmas is the same farkin' health insurance Congress has seen fit to give itself at my expense.

/good enough for all their family, good enough for mine



I've heard they've got an excellent plan. Which would have been a model for national health care if this country wasn't insane.


/don't know the details of the plan, though
 
2012-06-28 02:21:50 PM

Weaver95: I see the GOP is already taking up the mantra of 'taxes/deception' as their rapid response propaganda reply to this decision on obamacare.


/shrug

Worked for Clinton in 1992.
 
2012-06-28 02:22:04 PM

The_Sponge: Biological Ali: Rational people arguing in good faith understand that when the context is "raising" or "lowering" taxes, it's income taxes being talked about. This new argument is basically "Cigarette taxes going up means Obama has broken his promise!" all over again, only it's somehow even more retarded.


Rational people realize that if the federal government raises taxes whether it's done via the income tax or through some kind of other tax, it's still a tax increase.

But somehow it's my fault that Obama made a blanket statement.


If Obama raises taxes on tanning beds, did he raise taxes for EVERY American?
 
2012-06-28 02:22:25 PM

snocone: All I want for Christmas is the same farkin' health insurance Congress has seen fit to give itself at my expense.

/good enough for all their family, good enough for mine


All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
 
2012-06-28 02:22:41 PM

Serious Black: A lot of what you describe, especially the point about how costs wouldn't necessarily go down if we suddenly imported several million new doctors and nurses, is because many segments of the health care market suffer from supply-driven demand. The very fact that a doctor CAN do something often leads him to doing that thing over and over and over again. Supply-side controls are unfortunately necessary to controlling health care costs, and that's something only the government can do in many cases.

/I know you know this, just clarifying for other Farkers


yeah, and I don't want to imply that increasing providers wouldn't be a great way to slow inflation.
costs wouldn't increase as significantly as they would otherwise if actual cost increases were tamped down (say by lowering labor costs), but you are never going to see provider give back price increases that are already baked in form years past.

hospital executives, even at not for profits, are rewarded compensation based on how much revenue exceed costs. actual costs may go up significantly because of the increased breadth and depth of services provided or new technology and meds that you mention, but another very real and important driver in price increases is the very real human desire of every person in the healthcare industry to increase ones own income.
 
2012-06-28 02:22:42 PM
i37.photobucket.com


Mmmmm.... I am feeling refreshed again...
 
2012-06-28 02:22:58 PM

heap: NateGrey: Real conservatives need to stop listening to psychobabble from PhonyCon pubs like Weakly Standard

America was pretty much neutered today, led by a Chief Justice who was appointed by a FraudCon Bush II and pushed by a FraudCon GOP senate.

No more whiny psychobable...time to pee or get off the pot. There needs to be some serious action from Real Conservatives to start fixing this nation


------


Sadly, we all know how this ends. Not with the whimper of submission by the masses, but the inevitable escalation of free men against those who subvert the Constitution in order to enslave. Predictably it will start with disharmony and devolve into passive resistance. Eventually one man will resist to the point of confrontation with servants who act as his master, and those servants will lay him to waste. It devolves rapidly from there until free men retain their freedom through every means necessary.

As much as I abhor violence, I will not shed five tears for when justice is served.
[www.guysmith.org image 170x950]

i abhor violence, really - it just sounds like i'm masturbating to a violent fantasy.


Wow, what a group of spoiled little babies the freepers are. "I want it done my way WAHHHHHHHHHHH~!"
 
2012-06-28 02:22:58 PM

mr lawson: Fail in Human Form: The bill limits the amount of overhead so if they raise the rates, or requires a rebate cheque to be sent to the policy holders, it'll be to cover the cost not to line their pockets.

Hey yoohoo. THAT is the problem. Just think for a second about this. .....What is stopping the hospitals and doctors from RAISING their prices? They know they are now gonna get paid, right? What is stopping them? Nothing is!
Well now Mr. Insurance Comp will just raise your premiums to cover this increase because, guess what? Ya' gotta have it by law. Let's say your premium was $1,000. well 80% has to be spent on care which leaves $200 for the insurance comp profit. Now your rate increase to $2,000 to cover the increased hospitals fees, 80% still has to go to care, but now the insurance comp profits are $400!
Think!


teh invisible hand will make sure that won't happen
 
2012-06-28 02:23:06 PM

Big Man On Campus: I wonder what the future tax credit on well-behaved children will be.


all they had to do was forget birth control. it wasn't a positive act any more than any other accident - you know, the type you have insurance for.

like childbirth!
 
2012-06-28 02:23:34 PM

The_Sponge: Biological Ali: Rational people arguing in good faith understand that when the context is "raising" or "lowering" taxes, it's income taxes being talked about. This new argument is basically "Cigarette taxes going up means Obama has broken his promise!" all over again, only it's somehow even more retarded.


Rational people realize that if the federal government raises taxes whether it's done via the income tax or through some kind of other tax, it's still a tax increase.

But somehow it's my fault that Obama made a blanket statement.



He didn't though. He made a statement about a specific tax plan that he was pushing at that time.
 
2012-06-28 02:23:39 PM
I just read that the majority opinion was written by Justice Roberts. The conservative judge appointed by Bush.

I don't need my coffee because that makes me day.
 
2012-06-28 02:23:41 PM
I can see why some people are upset. I just got out of graduate school and from the time I was 18 to finishing my masters degree I was uninsured and unable to afford health insurance. Should I have gotten insurance? If I could have figured out how, of course. I guess people in my situation can now stay on their parents health insurance until 26 so that will cover a lot of young people. Some people just can't afford to buy private insurance and that will be a burden on them, but as a society this is a good thing. My mother would have been able to get cancer treatment in time to save her life if the ACA would have been passed a few years earlier. Millions of children can now get insurance who couldn't before. These are good things. If you fall into that category where this is a burden, that sucks and I'm sorry but later in life you'll benefit from this even if you don't see it now.
 
2012-06-28 02:23:54 PM
I dont have health insurance and i still dont pay for healthcare other than my suppositories. i get that money back though cause i claim them on my tax forms
 
2012-06-28 02:23:55 PM

Jackson Herring: I'm a pacifist with a closet full of guns. Why is that weird?


Don't you mean "a closet filled with cat"?

i194.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-28 02:24:41 PM

heap: Big Man On Campus: I wonder what the future tax credit on well-behaved children will be.

all they had to do was forget birth control. it wasn't a positive act any more than any other accident - you know, the type you have insurance for.

like childbirth!


But the screwing was a positive action, amirite?
 
2012-06-28 02:24:52 PM

Weaver95: I see the GOP is already taking up the mantra of 'taxes/deception' as their rapid response propaganda reply to this decision on obamacare.


I personally watched it grow from a laughable blubbering argument, a mere seedling of a point scattered on a few forums, to the fully grown GOP-rag front page propaganda within about 4 hours.

It's amazing how quickly they snag onto the best angle they have, even if it's still mind numbingly stupid, and turn it into their entire theme.
 
2012-06-28 02:25:14 PM
I wonder what Tim Tebow has to say about this
 
2012-06-28 02:25:40 PM

Smoky Dragon Dish: Medical accounting is bizzare. I don't uinderstand it.


Insurance companies often have vendor rates with certain providers. So if Happy Insurance Company has a vendor contract with Dr. Donkeynuts, then the doctor will get paid according to his contract, regardless of what the actual bill comes out to be. This is why your insurance coverage changes based upon 'network' and 'out-of-network.' The insurance company has to pay more to the docs not in their network.

It sounds like the person you quoted got the 'in-network' rate for his procedure, but that isn't very common. Usually they just charge the whole bill, knowing that the patient isn't going to be able to pay and then they can work out a settlement later for a fraction of the total, but pretty much still what they would have gotten paid from an insurance company in the first place.

/Why yes, it does sound like a scam!
 
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