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(US Supreme Court) NewsFlash Supreme Court rules that Obamacare is constitutional. The bland mask that is Mitt Romney's face twitches with something called "emotion"   (supremecourt.gov) divider line 3382
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14914 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jun 2012 at 10:27 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-06-28 02:00:20 PM
Moderator smells of elderberries!
 
2012-06-28 02:00:24 PM

incendi: ontariolightning: Can someone answer this question. does this mean that americans wont have to pay for doctor appointments and surgeries or procedures?

Nope. Very little will change, except the volume level of the biatching about it, which just got amplified 10-fold, but will slowly drop off for the next 30 years.


Then I don't see this as some big victory.
 
2012-06-28 02:00:27 PM
My wife works in healthcare. Take it for what it is, but many older docs told her they were out if it goes through. Retiring early and what not. They do not want to deal with it...I'm not a big fan of young docs myself. The other day this douchebag doctor was texting while I was talking to him...I wanted to shove the phone down his throat..

Thanx Barry
 
2012-06-28 02:00:37 PM

ignatius_crumbcake: Tomorrow's headline: "Mitt Romney says Obamacare was his idea from the beginning."


It certainly wasn't Obama's, he campaigned against it in the primaries.
 
2012-06-28 02:00:48 PM

nickerj1: Bungles: If you are born, live, and die in the US, you will use healthcare. It may just be signing off your corpse, but you will.

The amount of people that entirely avoid healthcare of any sort could fit in phonebox.

So you admit: there are individuals that are subject to taxation under Obamacare, which Ginsburg alleges is valid under Commerce clause because ALL individuals are actors in the medical care market, and yet they aren't actors in the medical care market. Namely those individuals that just live in the US and don't use any medical care.

Close2TheEdge: If you are in a car accident, then what? Are you going to mumble to the EMT to give you St Johns Wort while you lie bleeding in the crumpled wreckage?

//Idiot

drewsclues: So, when you collapse in the street (not a threat, but an example) and someone calls the paramedics and they take you to the hospital for treatment, that hospital is NOT going to charge you because you didn't have an opportunity to partcipate in the "free market" of health care. Uh-huh....

Where'd you two get your GED in law from? Fark.com? You're addressing potential ramifications for not having the individual mandate, which is the wrong inquiry. The correct inquiry is whether Congress has the power to create the individual mandate.

As an example of how silly Ginsburg's line of thought is, replace "medical care" with "owning footwear".

"Unlike the market for almost any other product or service, the market for footwear is one in which all individuals inevitably participate." "Virtually every person residing in the United States, sooner or later, will own a piece of footwear." And then Congress has the power to make a law that: requires everyone in the US to prove they own footwear, and fines you if you can't prove you own footwear.

Boom, Congress would now have power to regulate anything that "virtually everyone" uses/does.


The difference is this. If you choose not to own footwear, it has no impact whatsoever on the price that I pay for said footwear. Footwear is not critcial to your survival under any circumstances. It may be stupid to not wear it, but that's your problem.

OTOH, medical care, especially EMERGENCY medical care is critical to your survival under many circumstances. And if you choose not to be covered, somebody else foots the bill when you use that emergency care. And that cost eventually gets passed on to those of us responsible adults who choose to live in society. As opposed to self-absorbed cheaters like you. You refuse to pay for the system, but will use the system when the need arises. Whether you like it or not.
 
2012-06-28 02:01:30 PM
Since there's no way I'll ever reach the end of this thread from my mobile device, I'd like to say a couple of things before I give up and actually do some work here at the office...

As a liberal, socialist-leaning American progressive, I'd like to extend my gratitude to Chief Justice Roberts for making the right decision. I'm not even going to cynically assume that calling it a tax was throwing a bone to Republicans, but instead was an honest read of the Act's functional mechanism.

Even a lower-middle-class socialist like myself understands that to have things, they have to be paid for; and if government does it, I know I'll be on the hook to help pay the costs. Until I can sink my current monthly health insurance payments into a Single-Payer socialized plan like I want, I'm willing to play by the PPACA rules as protection against the denial-of-coverage whims of for-profit medical insurance companies. Maybe I'll go broke paying my deductibles one day, but at least I'll get treatments without being shafted with the whole bill.

I'd also like to congratulate you, John, on perpetrating the most epic troll of the sociopathic, small-minded conservatards; leaving them to STFU and stop using the word "Unconstitutional" before the word "Obamacare" when barking out their rote-memorized talking points. Even as the din of their roar toward you slowly drowns out the fact that you were the only one of the five Yeas who said "it's a tax" versus the others who said "it's interstate commerce," know that those of us who may hold a grudge for the wrong decision you supported on Citizens United, we're adult enough to appreciate the sober decision made here; one squarely to the advantage of America's most vulnerable citizens.

In conclusion, I just want to say thank-you in clearest terms. So, thank you. More decisions like this, please.
 
2012-06-28 02:01:33 PM

jigger: robbrie: ACA is a tax, only if you CHOOSE to opt out of "mandatory" health insurance.

Using the tax code to influence the behavior of the electorate is neither new nor newsworthy.

Why do you think we have a home mortgage interest primary residence tax deduction? So more people will become homeowners.

Why do you think we lowered the long term capital gains tax rate to 15%? To stimulate individual investment.

So the Dems and Obama raised tax rates on ALL of the middle class. Well, no on everyone. So the Dems and Obama raised tax rates on EVERYONE, and then added a tax deduction for having health insurance. Is that what you're saying?


Whatever they're paying you, they should lower it.
 
2012-06-28 02:01:44 PM

Fail in Human Form: mr lawson: Fail in Human Form: The bill limits the amount of overhead so if they raise the rates, or requires a rebate cheque to be sent to the policy holders, it'll be to cover the cost not to line their pockets.

Hey yoohoo. THAT is the problem. Just think for a second about this. .....What is stopping the hospitals and doctors from RAISING their prices? They know they are now gonna get paid, right? What is stopping them? Nothing is!
Well now Mr. Insurance Comp will just raise your premiums to cover this increase because, guess what? Ya' gotta have it by law. Let's say your premium was $1,000. well 80% has to be spent on care which leaves $200 for the insurance comp profit. Now your rate increase to $2,000 to cover the increased hospitals fees, 80% still has to go to care, but now the insurance comp profits are $400!
Think!

Prices don't just arbitrarily rise, as fewer people rely on expensive emergency services the cost should go down. Hospitals will still have to compete for coverage from various insurance companies since this bill keeps health coverage in private hands. That's part of what the exchanges that go into effect in 2014 will help avoid.



do you really honestly think there is any business (for-profit or not-for-profit) in America that wouldn't arbitrarily raise prices in a given year without regard to how much if at all cost had risen during that period if they could?

listen, I contract commercial rates for hospital groups for a living.
all providers do arbitrarily raise all prices every year, and I have never seen any regard paid to how much more expensive a service has become in the preceding year. we don't even bother to look up cost increase information even though we know it because we report it to medicare,; we just increase prices as much as we possibly can (and the amount we can raise prices is usually just a function of market share we have with an individual commercial payer in the locality in question).

costs will never go down. ever. it wouldn't matter if this country imported 15 million new nurses and hospital labor costs dropped by 1/6th. it wouldn't matter if an alien came down to the planet and offered every prosthesis, and surgical supply known to man free to providers. do your hamburgers get 2 cents cheaper when there is a glut of wheat and hamburger bun prices drop by 10%. f*cking of course not.

here's a clause in a typical contract we did last year:

8.11 Annual Increase only during initial term of three or more years. During the initial term of the Agreement, with regard to all Covered Services that are reimbursed under this Appendix using any Payment Method other than a PPR or Per Unit via Facility Fee Schedule, each of the contract rates under this Appendix will Increase by 5%, effective on each anniversary of the Effective Date, with regard to dates of service on or after such date.
 
2012-06-28 02:01:47 PM

meat0918: heap: so i took the obligatory stroll thru freeperville (it's kinda like visiting a zoo, except the animals are insane) - holy balls christmas. they are calling for armed revolt. proclaiming in 1990s geocities web template style that 5 justices are guilty of treason. random proclamations that the Scalia opinion was written as a majority opinion, and some last minute shenanigans (a la 'obama has your daughter, john roberts - wouldn't want anything to happen to her, would you?) altered what was right and patriotic.

for real, i wouldn't ordinarily be one to suggest strolling thru the loony bin, but be frigged if this flavor of insanity isn't worth viewing.

Damn, the Secret Service is going to be busy.

I wonder when the owner of Free Republic will post a statement asking people to tone it down, and stop the seditious talk?


He will probably tell them to use more wink wink nudge nudge wording instead.
 
2012-06-28 02:01:48 PM

KnightWhoFormerlySaidNi: Smeggy Smurf: 3 of the 4 boxes have failed. Time to break out the 4th box. Good thing I've been teaching the boys how to do it as well.


I'm not fluent in crazy. Someone mind explaining this to me?


soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.

essentially, he's attempting to coyly say he wants to kill people.

viva la rationality!
 
2012-06-28 02:01:52 PM

jigger: That was a lot of words just to say that you're not very bright. Keep it up. One day you'll be somebody.


I get so excited when people respond to me, I pee on the floor a little bit! I hope we can continue to have this stimulating and intellectual conversation! It makes me so happy my tail wiggles.

// on the internet, nobody can tell that I'm a dog!
 
2012-06-28 02:02:12 PM

Corvus: Each country is different. In Germany the system is a lot like what this system is under the Affordable Care Act.


Except that insurance companies must be non-profit and they are really like big government/corporate co-ops.
 
2012-06-28 02:02:17 PM
Surely there is enough anger on the far-right for them to automatically get two votes each instead of just one this November.
 
2012-06-28 02:02:19 PM

meat0918: heap: so i took the obligatory stroll thru freeperville (it's kinda like visiting a zoo, except the animals are insane) - holy balls christmas. they are calling for armed revolt. proclaiming in 1990s geocities web template style that 5 justices are guilty of treason. random proclamations that the Scalia opinion was written as a majority opinion, and some last minute shenanigans (a la 'obama has your daughter, john roberts - wouldn't want anything to happen to her, would you?) altered what was right and patriotic.

for real, i wouldn't ordinarily be one to suggest strolling thru the loony bin, but be frigged if this flavor of insanity isn't worth viewing.

Damn, the Secret Service is going to be busy.

I wonder when the owner of Free Republic will post a statement asking people to tone it down, and stop the seditious talk?


Heh, reaped what he sowed, creating his own Frankenstein, etc., etc.
 
2012-06-28 02:02:25 PM

meat0918: Damn, the Secret Service is going to be busy.

I wonder when the owner of Free Republic will post a statement asking people to tone it down, and stop the seditious talk?


they'd have to bar the doors entirely. it's all a big writhing mass of angry hurrrrr.
 
2012-06-28 02:02:28 PM

ModernPrimitive01: Let me tell a story about why this is a good thing: 15 years ago my mother got cancer. She fought hard and won. Complete remission/surgery to remove lumps. Immediately after her surgery she was dropped from her insurance. Following her cancer, she continued to work (ran her own restaurant) but was not able to purchase health insurance. She tried everywhere, was willing to pay huge sums of money, but not a single insurer would give her a plan due to "preexisting conditions." 3 years ago she started to recognize the signs that something was wrong. She went for a blood test and boom, she had cancer again, but couldn't get it treated. Her only option was disability, something she had avoided last time because she wanted to continue to work. It took 2 years for her to get disability by that time her previously treatable cancer had become stage 4 terminal cancer. She is continuing to fight, about to start her 4th round of chemo/radiation. If she was able to get insurance before this happened not only would there be a good chance they could have cured it, but it would have been less expensive for the entire health care system. I'm telling that story to every idiot that says something stupid about the ruling today.


Thank you for sharing and I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My family went through a similar situation with my sister, who had the *gall* to get non-Hodgkins lymphoma at the age of 22. She passed away this past winter from a different condition (cerebral hemorrhage, out of the blue), but I have to wonder if she hadn't been denied coverage all those years, if she'd still be alive... If there were underlying issues that she could have taken care of... She always had a job, from the age of 16 until she died at 37, but her employer didn't provide insurance coverage and private insurers either considered her uninsurable or put her in the high-risk pool which there was no farkin' way she could afford.
 
2012-06-28 02:02:29 PM

abb3w: Essentially... the mandate is functionally a tax (or pedantaically, an exercise of the taxing power) from the stance of constitutional law, but it's not a tax from the standpoint of statutory law.

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg. - attributed to Abraham Lincoln

lh6.googleusercontent.com


So, what you're telling me is, the ruling was so ambiguously worded as to allow people like Faux News to scream "TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX"?
 
2012-06-28 02:02:38 PM

PainfulItching: Explain to me how this is supposed to help me?


This 'is' the old Republican plan, so... here's how it is suppose to work.

Everyone pays in to the system, one way or the other.
This increases the giant piles of money the insurance companies have to work with, ensures there are far fewer uninsured people out there.

Fewer free-riders, more money to the insurers, allowing for lower premiums, greater care, etc.

Granted, it assumes the insurance companies won't be outright douchebags about it, which is why it's the old pre-Teabagger GOP plan.

The Dems' Public Option didn't make it in, and no Single Payer is on the horizon.

Sorry dude.
 
2012-06-28 02:02:51 PM
raise taxes on everything, cut way back on military expenditures and spend the money on universal healthcare for all Americans

problem solved
 
2012-06-28 02:03:02 PM
Let me get the right-wing's reasoning straight.

The Supreme Court upheld the ACA on the basis that the mandate is a tax, and therefore Constitutional. That was wrong.

Obama said that he wouldn't increase taxes on the bottom 95%, so, since the SC says the mandate is a tax, that makes him a liar.

So, for their "logic" to be correct, the Supreme Court has to be right in calling the mandate is a tax, but wrong in saying that a tax is constitutional. There's no other combination that would allow them to be pissed off at the decision AND happy that Obama somehow looks bad.

Right?

They're eating a hunk of shiat and are trying to convince us that it tastes like steak.
 
2012-06-28 02:03:11 PM

Weaver95: Moderator: Weaver95: xanadian: Ya know, kind of off-topic, but...I'll bet Moderator must be busier in this thread than a three-legged man in an ass-kicking contest.

I kinda feel sorry for the mods today.

For the most part people are being good.

still...this has GOT to be nuts to monitor. I don't envy you at all!


Again: Indeed.

;)

/good luck...we're all counting on you
 
2012-06-28 02:03:45 PM

The_Sponge: Gwendolyn: I never saw the difference between the federal government saying I must have health care and Maryland requiring me to have car insurance. I'm sure it is in some way but we get told we have to do things all the time.


Here's the difference:

You don't have to drive a car.


You pretty much do in America, actually.
 
2012-06-28 02:03:51 PM

Big Man On Campus: Roberts surprised me. He surprised me in that he didn't read his own opinion. His opinion basically says that congress not only has the power to tax, but the power to tax individuals arbitrarily.

His decision seems to say that Congress decides what lifestyles are and are not fair to tax. Where does this line of reasoning end? "Oh, you haven't voted in the last election, that's another 1% on your tax bill."... "Oh, you didn't exercise regularly this year, that's another 1% effective tax rate."... "Oh you didn't purchase anything on Amazon this year, that's another 1%"

You might look at my hyperbole and be dismissive, but that's essentially the door that Roberts opened. He opened the door to most any individual lifestyle and/or individual financial decision to be taxable.

Very bad decision. I don't mind health care, I don't even mind government-run health care. Just for farks sake, let the individual opt-out of it, let individual freedom rule over this stupid legislation that wasn't even read.


I sympathize with your feelings, but I still think your conclusions are exactly bass-ackwards.

1. ACA is not arbitrary taxation -- if you make enough to pay the tax you pay it though premiums or directly. This is different to a graduated income tax in detail only.

2. By forcing the government to call a tax a tax, SCOTUS did us all a favor. Had they approved it via the CC any or all of those nightmares you mention could come true. From now on, Congress will HAVE to call any money collected, directly or indirectly, a tax. We can argue about a tax. Arguing about more nebulous demands appears much more difficult to me.

3. See 2...

4. Opting out is not an option. Otherwise old farts like me would want to opt out of paying taxes to support my local schools -- after all, I don't have school age children (same as healthy young adult wants out of ACA excuse). IOW, when you get to a certain station in life you have to start paying your share. That is the ONLY way to make society work.

Wanna live in a social darwinistic environment? I happen to know that Mogadishu is nice this time of year.
 
2012-06-28 02:04:00 PM

jayhawk88: Man I can't wait until my nutjob extended family members get home tonight and start tearing up Facebook.


That's exactly why my nutjob extended family members are all blocked from view...I'm sure the unemployed ones have already flooded their accounts with lots of troll-tastic hate speech.
 
2012-06-28 02:04:01 PM

ontariolightning: Then I don't see this as some big victory.


It's not. The bill does some nice things to allow people who previously would have had a hell of a time getting insurance actually join regular people in not being completely, totally screwed by healthcare costs. What all this is about is that the Republicans were getting all excited about sticking it in the craw of the Democrats, and are now furious that it was snatched away from them. The Democrats were resigned to having it stuffed in their craw, and are now taunting the Republicans, not that they need to as the Republicans are perfectly capable of whipping themselves into a delirious frenzy over this.
 
2012-06-28 02:04:51 PM

HeartBurnKid: xltech: Well, I will be out of a job in the medical field within 2 years... thanks a lot libs. Small rural clinics like mine will be shut down because of the high cost of compliance. We were already worried about the mandidtory Electronic Records implementation to get reimbursement with Medicare/Medicaid. That alone was going to cost us over $50k. We will be closed within 2 years now.

What new regulations are imposed on clinics by the PPACA? AFAIK, pretty much everything in it deals with insurers, not medical practitioners. Including the mandate that was at issue.


RIght now, we do not have enough staff to take care of all the "prior authorizations" we are forced to deal with. Medicaid in our state is going to require us to prior authorize every procedure, among other things, (no matter how minor like clipping toenails) and we must meet criteria before said procedure can be done. With any more increases, we will need to hire at least one employee full time. We have one Doctor, one PA one nurse and I do all the lab work, EKGs and x-rays, 3 others work in the office for billing, insurance and coding. With reimbursements going down, costs going up and no big hospital sponsoring us... we will be closing. Then, maybe I can get free health care and not work.... let all you libs support me for once!
 
2012-06-28 02:04:52 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Let me get the right-wing's reasoning straight.

The Supreme Court upheld the ACA on the basis that the mandate is a tax, and therefore Constitutional. That was wrong.

Obama said that he wouldn't increase taxes on the bottom 95%, so, since the SC says the mandate is a tax, that makes him a liar.

So, for their "logic" to be correct, the Supreme Court has to be right in calling the mandate is a tax, but wrong in saying that a tax is constitutional. There's no other combination that would allow them to be pissed off at the decision AND happy that Obama somehow looks bad.

Right?

They're eating a hunk of shiat and are trying to convince us that it tastes like steak.


Don't worry about it. Moderator deleted any offending opinions for you.
 
2012-06-28 02:05:12 PM

The Larch: // on the internet, nobody can tell that I'm a dog!


So we finally got a Fark handle to match this?

weknowmemes.com
 
2012-06-28 02:05:14 PM

bwilson27: jigger: robbrie: ACA is a tax, only if you CHOOSE to opt out of "mandatory" health insurance.

Using the tax code to influence the behavior of the electorate is neither new nor newsworthy.

Why do you think we have a home mortgage interest primary residence tax deduction? So more people will become homeowners.

Why do you think we lowered the long term capital gains tax rate to 15%? To stimulate individual investment.

So the Dems and Obama raised tax rates on ALL of the middle class. Well, no on everyone. So the Dems and Obama raised tax rates on EVERYONE, and then added a tax deduction for having health insurance. Is that what you're saying?

Whatever they're paying you, they should lower it.




If it's a tax deduction, then everyone's tax rates were raised. Do you deny this?
 
2012-06-28 02:05:20 PM

ontariolightning: raise taxes on everything, cut way back on military expenditures and spend the money on universal healthcare for all Americans

problem solved


Let me guess, you're one of the people who gift extra money to the treasury each year for fun? No, you don't do that? Shocker..
 
2012-06-28 02:06:31 PM

The Larch: jigger: That was a lot of words just to say that you're not very bright. Keep it up. One day you'll be somebody.

I get so excited when people respond to me, I pee on the floor a little bit! I hope we can continue to have this stimulating and intellectual conversation! It makes me so happy my tail wiggles.

// on the internet, nobody can tell that I'm a dog!


Damn. Sorry. I thought you were a tree, or more likely a stump.
 
2012-06-28 02:06:50 PM

xanadian: abb3w: Essentially... the mandate is functionally a tax (or pedantaically, an exercise of the taxing power) from the stance of constitutional law, but it's not a tax from the standpoint of statutory law.

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg. - attributed to Abraham Lincoln

lh6.googleusercontent.com

So, what you're telling me is, the ruling was so ambiguously worded as to allow people like Faux News to scream "TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX"?


Sh:t, they were doing that 2 years ago.
 
2012-06-28 02:06:54 PM
All I want for Christmas is the same farkin' health insurance Congress has seen fit to give itself at my expense.

/good enough for all their family, good enough for mine
 
2012-06-28 02:07:20 PM

muck4doo:

Don't worry about it. Moderator deleted any offending opinions for you.


you're so cute when you're asshurt.
 
2012-06-28 02:07:30 PM

mrshowrules: Lucky LaRue: PanicMan: My coworker just said "they can't do that because the founding fathers wrote the constitution based on the old testimate". Also, this is the end of the country.

My coworker's reaction:

Me - Did you hear?
Her - Hear what?
Me - The Supreme Court upheld the entire law.
Her - Oh... What law was that?
Me - Um.. Obamacare.
Her - Oh - I thought the already decided that.

Is she hot? Because that type of dumb is just a bonus when they are hot.


Alas, no..
 
2012-06-28 02:07:31 PM
Seems it's another famous 5-4. Obama's a lucky bastard to have justices stepping down during his time. Unless....my god...he forced them to retire! With his secret hypno-beam!

Nah that can't be. Good job, though.
 
2012-06-28 02:07:42 PM
This sucks for poor people,now you get to choose between insurance and food,now everyone in this country is born into the system by default ,GG.
 
2012-06-28 02:07:45 PM

brobdiggy: It amazes me that so many of you think this is a great thing. It's just the government getting its foot in the door to have even greater power.


The red font is what makes me agree with you.
 
2012-06-28 02:08:10 PM
ObamaCare - Explain It Like I'm Five by captainpixystick

Bob: Hi, insurance company. I'd like to buy some health insurance.

Insurance company: No. You had cancer when you were 3 years old, and the cancer could come back. We're not selling you health insurance.

Bob: It's not my fault I got cancer when I was three! Besides, that was years ago!

Insurance company: If we sell insurance to you, we'll probably lose money, and we're not doing it.

Bob: But I need insurance more than anyone! My cancer might come back!

Insurance company: We don't care. We're not selling you insurance.

Obama: Hey, that's totally not fair. Bob is right, he does need insurance! Sell Bob some insurance.

Insurance company: If we have to, I guess.

Mary: This is cool. Obama said the insurance company has to sell insurance to anyone who needs it.

Sam: Hey, I have an idea. I'm going to stop paying for health insurance. If I get sick, I can always go buy some insurance then. The insurance company won't be able to say no, because Obama's told them they have to sell it to anyone who needs it!

Dave: That's a great idea! I'm not paying for health insurance either, at least not until I get sick.

Insurance company: Hey! If everyone stops paying for insurance, we'll go bankrupt!

Obama: Oh come on Sam and Dave, that's not fair either.

Dave: I don't care. It saves me money.

Obama:(Facepalm) Oh for god's sake. Sam, Dave, you have to keep paying for health insurance, and not wait until you're sick. You too, Mary and Bob.

Mary:But I'm broke! I can't buy insurance! I just don't have any money.

Obama: Mary, show me your piggy bank.

(Mary Breaks it Open)

Obama: Oh, wow, you really are broke. Ok, tell you what. You still have to buy insurance, but I'll help you pay 95% of the cost.

Mary: Thank you!

Obama: I need an aspirin.

Insurance company: We're not paying for that aspirin.

**FLASHBACK after credits**:

All the People:
Wait! Won't this just mean we all give money to the companies and they keep it all?

Obama: No, they will be required to spend 85% of what they get paid in premiums on actual healthcare.

Cue: I got this.jpg

Now Comic Form!
 
2012-06-28 02:08:30 PM
Came for the FARK independent butthurt. Left more than satisfied.
 
2012-06-28 02:08:34 PM

relcec: Fail in Human Form: mr lawson: Fail in Human Form: The bill limits the amount of overhead so if they raise the rates, or requires a rebate cheque to be sent to the policy holders, it'll be to cover the cost not to line their pockets.

Hey yoohoo. THAT is the problem. Just think for a second about this. .....What is stopping the hospitals and doctors from RAISING their prices? They know they are now gonna get paid, right? What is stopping them? Nothing is!
Well now Mr. Insurance Comp will just raise your premiums to cover this increase because, guess what? Ya' gotta have it by law. Let's say your premium was $1,000. well 80% has to be spent on care which leaves $200 for the insurance comp profit. Now your rate increase to $2,000 to cover the increased hospitals fees, 80% still has to go to care, but now the insurance comp profits are $400!
Think!

Prices don't just arbitrarily rise, as fewer people rely on expensive emergency services the cost should go down. Hospitals will still have to compete for coverage from various insurance companies since this bill keeps health coverage in private hands. That's part of what the exchanges that go into effect in 2014 will help avoid.


do you really honestly think there is any business (for-profit or not-for-profit) in America that wouldn't arbitrarily raise prices in a given year without regard to how much if at all cost had risen during that period if they could?

listen, I contract commercial rates for hospital groups for a living.
all providers do arbitrarily raise all prices every year, and I have never seen any regard paid to how much more expensive a service has become in the preceding year. we don't even bother to look up cost increase information even though we know it because we report it to medicare,; we just increase prices as much as we possibly can (and the amount we can raise prices is usually just a function of market share we have with an individual commercial payer in the locality in question).

costs will nev ...


A lot of what you describe, especially the point about how costs wouldn't necessarily go down if we suddenly imported several million new doctors and nurses, is because many segments of the health care market suffer from supply-driven demand. The very fact that a doctor CAN do something often leads him to doing that thing over and over and over again. Supply-side controls are unfortunately necessary to controlling health care costs, and that's something only the government can do in many cases.

/I know you know this, just clarifying for other Farkers
 
2012-06-28 02:08:54 PM
I'm surprised Republicans haven't followed the same reaction as after OBL was killed.

"Dubya appointed Roberts? Thanks, President Bush, for giving us health care!"
 
2012-06-28 02:09:02 PM

dandude23: This sucks for poor people,now you get to choose between insurance and food,now everyone in this country is born into the system by default ,GG.


You have no idea how this is implemented, do you? Come on, admit it.
 
2012-06-28 02:09:05 PM

Voiceofreason01: no he didn't

/he explicitly mentions that those types of taxes would be unconstitutional


I'm reading up, but I don't see what you're talking about. Do you at least have a page/paragraph number to back up your claim? On reading this, it does indeed sound like he's saying Congress has the power to enact taxes for anything it wants.
 
2012-06-28 02:09:15 PM

cman: And I bet ya Kos is having the biggest orgasm


I believe the Daily KOS staff were watching it live and it looked something like this;
anongallery.org
 
2012-06-28 02:09:53 PM

xltech: Medicaid in our state is going to require us to prior authorize every procedure....With reimbursements going down, costs going up and no big hospital sponsoring us... we will be closing


but I bet you vote the same people to your State Legislature that you did last time.
 
2012-06-28 02:10:16 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I hate those taxes I get levied when I get pulled over and can't produce proof of insurance.
 
2012-06-28 02:10:16 PM
I love the Republitards saying Obama promised that he wouldnt raise taxes and he lied to poor naive you.

I guess you morons wont be voting for him this November, like you didnt vote for him in 2008.
 
2012-06-28 02:10:40 PM

Smiths: SharkTrager: I never did get my answer regarding the status of fungal infused multi-handled gerdunzas of a familial nature.

btw.. this was an awesome title defense.


WHy thank you. I try to make them kind of fit the topic.
 
2012-06-28 02:10:51 PM

andrewskdr: ontariolightning: raise taxes on everything, cut way back on military expenditures and spend the money on universal healthcare for all Americans

problem solved

Let me guess, you're one of the people who gift extra money to the treasury each year for fun? No, you don't do that? Shocker..


I'm sorry I don't speak the language of oh my god how am I going to pay this hospital bill
 
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