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(US Supreme Court) NewsFlash Supreme Court rules that Obamacare is constitutional. The bland mask that is Mitt Romney's face twitches with something called "emotion"   (supremecourt.gov) divider line 3382
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14913 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jun 2012 at 10:27 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-06-28 11:32:20 AM

david_gaithersburg: I wonder who will be the first poor soul to be thrown in jail for choosing to feed themselves instead of feeding the insurance companies?


Yeah, that won't happen, unless you've done a lot more nefarious things with your taxes.

The courts shot down the expansion of Medicaid for the poor. Here in MD one does not qualify for assistance if they have any equity in things like their home, car, 401(k). So now if you loose your job you will be forced to decide between either food or jail if I'm reading this decision correctly.

No, they didn't. They shot down the ability for the feds to yank all Medicaid funding if a state opts out of the Medicaid expansion.
 
2012-06-28 11:32:25 AM

The_Sponge: Remember when Obama promised that he wouldn't raise your taxes if you made less than $250K per year?


Oh well I guess he won't have your support now. Poor guy.
 
2012-06-28 11:32:30 AM
draa

Liberals are such nice people ...... As long as you GIVE them everything
If you meet one.....Smile.
 
2012-06-28 11:32:34 AM

cameroncrazy1984: barneyfifesbullet: Obama said it wasn't a tax.

The Supreme Court says he lied.

Romney's donations box just got even bigger. Obama is going to have make more trips to George Clooney's house to try and keep up.

Actually, the second argument used by the DoJ lawyers was that it was a tax, which is the argument the court accepted.

Keep on failing.


That was the THIRD argument. The second was the "necessary and proper" clause, which was rejected as well.
 
2012-06-28 11:32:35 AM

you need help: I will never go to the doctor in my lifetime, so this is nothing but butthurt for me.


But if you chose to skip health coverage, it would be more than butthurt. I've opted out of healthcare previously simply because my company will pay me a special bonus for opting out, because they still save money after the bonus. Nothing has changed for them, but now I cannot do that anymore.
 
2012-06-28 11:32:36 AM

Weaver95: gaith


.
.
I see that you are not familiar with the consequences of not having enough cash to pay the IRS.
 
2012-06-28 11:32:45 AM

Jon Snow: Just a reminder, the best deal in individual health care is to refuse to buy in to the mandate.


If you refuse to buy into the mandate your still have to pay $95.

Which is $95 more than "free loaders" who "couldn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and "carry their weight" were paying into the system to cover their healthcare costs in the existing system.

No one is saying this is perfect legislation, far from it. However, it does further the "liberal" moral imperative of having universal coverage for all and the "conservative" moral imperative of "free loaders pulling their weight" (the Glorious and Innately Efficient Free Market Private Enterprise, to boot).
 
2012-06-28 11:32:47 AM
The thing that most conservatives are forgetting is that it is extremely common to be fined aka "taxed", for not having insurance. Most states require people to have auto insurance, where is the outrage over that? I have to have homeowners insurance, where is the outrage over that? Many people have to have flood insurance, where is the outrage over that? you get the point.

And before babbling on about "OMG biggest tax increase EVAR!!!" crunch the numbers and see how many people are likely to get fined in 2014 and how many exceptions have already been given out and how many more applications for exceptions will now be flowing in due to this being upheld. If you have a year and a half to get healthcare insurance and don't, you probably deserve to get fined as there are many programs to help those who cannot afford it. I predict that the majority of those who will be fined will be the tea-bagging type who want a confrontation.
 
2012-06-28 11:32:53 AM

kidgenius: truthseeker2083: Good! Next step, single payer!

We can only hope. I consider myself more to the right of center, but single payer is the only real way to do this.

Now there is absolutely ZERO reason for a health insurance company to lower premiums. They know people will buy insurance (if it's cheaper than the tax), so they can keep their prices just high enough so the cost/benefit is to buy the insurance instead of paying the tax. That's the magic premium cost right there. And, that'll be for a super-high deductible plan as well. Everything else will cost more. All the other companies will do the same (effectively an oligopoly). This won't make insurance any cheaper.


Insurance can't be cheaper unless

1) Preventive measures are moneterily incentivized for policy holders

2) Procedures' & medications' prices are controlled

3) Insurance companies are run like non-profits so that admin/exec/ marketing expenditures are
 
2012-06-28 11:32:53 AM

crab66: schattenteufel: -Republican raise taxes to pay for foreign wars? No Problem! Lets give our boys the best toys to pertect our freedums!

Raise taxes to pay for wars? When did that happen?



It's why the IRS was created in the first place.

But if you want to split hairs, maybe "Raise" wasn't the best word. How about "Spend" Is that better?
 
2012-06-28 11:32:58 AM

fluffytuff: Anti_illuminati: fluffytuff: I'm not a very political person, and I haven't really kept up on this whole Obamacare thing. Can somebody explain to me just what the hell happened, or provide a link that explains it short bus style?

/thanks

If you don't have health insurance, when you file your taxes, you'll have to pay a bit more or receive a little less.

So wait...

Currently I'm working two jobs that don't provide healthcare. My kids are covered, but my wife and I are not. Healthcare is not very affordable at the moment for my wife and I. Will this make healthcare more affordable at all? Or am I going to be stuck with a $400+ a month paying for a private healthcare company? If so, then this bill sucks. I got just slapped with an expensive car payment.

/somebody please correct me if I'm wrong


Get a better job! It's not our fault you're poor! You need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and be responsible for once! Us Real AmericansTM are sick of paying for idiots like you who get cancer and walk in front of trucks! If you couldn't afford to take care of yourself, you shouldn't have gotten married, and god help us, procreate! You're the one increasing my taxes and health insurance premiums by not being financial sound, forcing us to foot the bill for these health issues! Healthcare is not a right! The hell is wrong with you!

/god that hurt to type
//yes it's going to make health insurance more affordable, no it will not make healthcare more affordable.
 
2012-06-28 11:33:08 AM

WombatControl: bdub77: Doesn't matter. Americans got health care. This is a win for the American people, not just Obama. Obama will now go down as the first president who got Americans health care. His legacy in that regard, not to mention countless other things he's done as president, will solidify him as one of the greats.

And yes I expect him to fully whip Romney's ass in November.

WHISKY. TANGO. FOXTROT.

Really? Now Americans have health care? You mean no one in this country had health care prior to Obama? Is this what you really think?

Here's a clue: health insurance is not health care. All "universal" or "single-payer" systems work by rationing care. You want treatment for your rare cancer? Some government bureaucrat will determine that the treatment isn't cost effective, and you will either die waiting for it, or you'll never be given the chance. Not only do you end up dead in that scenario, but new and innovative treatments never get developed because said bureaucrat won't pay for them. Oh, but you have "free" health insurance - just not free health care.

Nothing is free. Health care is not free, and it can't be made free by government fiat. If the liberals got their way we'd have a system in which everyone but the ultra rich who could afford private insurace (or black-market care) is stuck waiting in lines for treatments they may never get.

If the statists got their way and we magically had an NHS-style system in the United States there would be riots in the streets because Americans do not take kindly to the government dictating to them what they can and cannot have. At least those Americans who still believe in the spirit of this nation's Founding, anyway.


You know, our system also rations care. We just happen to ration it by telling people who can't afford it that they don't get anything at all rather than anything approaching sanity in terms of what care will actually, you know, help people.
 
2012-06-28 11:33:11 AM

EyeballKid: This time for sure....

[crooksandliars.com image 519x268]
Hey, Dana, was there a bag of dicks included in those just desserts? 'Cos I think the SCOTUS just suggested you eat one


Hey now, she might be a closet Sasha Grey and enjoy the experience.
 
2012-06-28 11:33:22 AM

Lando Lincoln: The_Sponge: Remember when Obama promised that he wouldn't raise your taxes if you made less than $250K per year?

Let the spinning commence!


It really is kind of interesting to see all sorts of right-wing shills show up in the thread saying the exact same thing within minutes of each other...

Oh, sorry, did I say interesting? I meant blatantly obvious and expected.
 
2012-06-28 11:33:40 AM
 
2012-06-28 11:33:48 AM
ACA is a tax, only if you CHOOSE to opt out of "mandatory" health insurance.

Using the tax code to influence the behavior of the electorate is neither new nor newsworthy.

Why do you think we have a home mortgage interest primary residence tax deduction? So more people will become homeowners.

Why do you think we lowered the long term capital gains tax rate to 15%? To stimulate individual investment.
 
2012-06-28 11:33:54 AM

hubiestubert: So with the Court making its decision, then the debate is over, right? Process served, and now we can get back to issues that are important?


are you kidding!? we have a cat 5 derpstorm warning posted and the outer markers are already reporting derpwinds in excess of 50 rovians per hour!
 
2012-06-28 11:33:54 AM

vpb: MasterThief: Silver lining based on SCOTUSBlog: The mandate was not a legit use of the commerce clause, but it was OK as a tax.

So yes, Obama and the Democrats did, in fact, raise taxes on the middle class. After repeatedly promising not to.

Except that the tax is only on people who don't get insurance. So no, he didnt' unless you think all or most of the middle class will refuse insurance
.


there is so much fail there, all in just two sentences.

/hint for you sherlock: most middle class will refuse it cause the CAN'T AFFORD IT.
//the stupid, it hurts. too bad i can't afford insurance to get it looked at.
 
2012-06-28 11:34:02 AM

sweetmelissa31: Hehe I like this one. Stealth Marxist.


Why is it that people who get mad about things on the internet know pretty much nothing about history and like basic theories of government?
 
2012-06-28 11:34:12 AM

LoneWolf343: ialdabaoth: Ok, look. This is simple.

If someone can't afford to stay competitive, why do they deserve to compete?

If someone can't afford to keep working, why do they deserve to work?

If someone can't afford to stay healthy, why do they deserve health?

If someone can't afford to stay alive, why do they deserve to live?

You get what you pay for. If you can't afford to pay, well... I suppose it's polite to pretend that it was nice knowing you, but you aren't much use anymore, are you?

And if you disagree with all of the above statements, great! Politics takes money. If someone can't afford a lobbyist or a campaign, why do they deserve to have an opinion?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Don't like it? Leave. You're not an American.


What should the people who can't afford to leave do?
 
2012-06-28 11:34:18 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: My only question about the Freepers is: if conservatives start a civil war, will their health insurance cover assault rifle wounds?


I doubt the US military will be shooting to wound.

/Oh, right, conservatives think the military will side with them if they rebel against the government. How precious.
 
2012-06-28 11:34:30 AM
As a Canadian, I'm getting a kick...
 
2012-06-28 11:34:35 AM

Lawnchair: SuperT: So what about working poor whose employers don't offer insurance, they pay the tax that they can ill afford and what do they get in return? Do they get health care in return? Can someone fill me in on how this doesn't fark over the uninsured? I don't think we had a problem with people refusing or choosing not to have insurance, just unable to afford not offered or refused by insurance co.

Sure. Let me do my best.

Said employees will be directed toward the state-run exchanges for individual insurance. Mostly private providers, but at least Vermont will have a public option. The exchange plans will be community-rated and not subject to denial due to pre-existing conditions.

For anyone 'working poor' (let's say, under $50k family income), there are *huge* subsidies written in PPACA for purchasing insurance. Now, the actual funding for those subsidies is subject to the appropriations process each year, so that could get very dicey.

But, part of PPACA is that if a 'silver' plan (minus the subsidies) in the exchange costs more than 8% of your household gross income, you're exempt. If the subsidies are slaughtered, over half the nation would be exempt from the mandate.

This latter is an important point. Because you're exempt if your income is below a threshold, Roberts found that it is an income tax, not a capitation/poll tax in violation of the Constitution.


As a fellow Vermonter, have you noticed the Vermont government has absolutely no clue what Shumlins' universal health care dream will cost? We are already number 1 in taxes per capita and 49th in economic outlook. Can only get so much blood from so few turnips.
 
2012-06-28 11:34:49 AM

Anagrammer: President Obama's Pledge Never to Raise Taxes on Anyone Making Less Than $250,000 a Year

SCOTUS says it's a tax, so Obama has just raised taxes on everyone, including those who make under $250,000/Yr.


You sure? Net taxes?

reddogreport.com
 
2012-06-28 11:34:53 AM
If corporations are people, are they required to have insurance?
 
2012-06-28 11:35:04 AM

CommieTaoist: The thing that most conservatives are forgetting is that it is extremely common to be fined aka "taxed", for not having insurance. Most states require people to have auto insurance, where is the outrage over that? I have to have homeowners insurance, where is the outrage over that? Many people have to have flood insurance, where is the outrage over that? you get the point.



And if you don't have auto insurance, what do some states require? You pay an "uninsured motorist's fee" to the DMV, and everyone goes about their day.

SOCIALISM!
 
2012-06-28 11:35:14 AM

optimistic_cynic: The_Sponge: Remember when Obama promised that he wouldn't raise your taxes if you made less than $250K per year?

If you have health insurance they won't be raised.



Newsflash: There are people who make under $250K per year who don't have health insurance.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:17 AM

Lawnchair: david_gaithersburg: I wonder who will be the first poor soul to be thrown in jail for choosing to feed themselves instead of feeding the insurance companies?

You do realize that you're exempt from the mandate if a silver plan would cost more than 8% of your gross income, right?


Do you think he gives half a shiat?
 
2012-06-28 11:35:22 AM

david_gaithersburg: Weaver95: gaith

.
.
I see that you are not familiar with the consequences of not having enough cash to pay the IRS.


well...since i'm not a tax dodging cheat...no. can't say i'm familiar with what happens if/when you lie to the IRS.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:22 AM

LasersHurt: keylock71: I see the talking points have been issued...

[msnbcmedia.msn.com image 474x268]

The talking point is that Obama plays football? Weird.


No no... That's Obama taking away the football all the Republicans were getting ready to spike.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:34 AM

Thunderpipes: Weird, Obama stated over and over this is not a tax. Now he argues it is.

At least they shot down the forced Medicaid expansion. That will throw a big wrench into his plans. 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes. Vote Republican? Obama can impose a tax on you. Buy an American car? Obama can impose a tax on you. Christian? Obama can impose a tax on you.

Now liberals, if we get a Republican advantage, how about we implement a tax on the unemployed? No job? Fine, pay a tax. I know you think you just won, but you just screwed everyone equally with another erosion of individual rights.


Rent a house? Pay taxes. Not Married? Pay taxes. Don't have children? Pay taxes...Oh we do that now already.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:36 AM

jayhawk88: Craptastic: praymantis: It's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax tax tax.

It's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax tax tax.
It's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax tax tax.
It's a taaaaaaaaax! It's a tax tax tax!


What? I thought we were doing the William Tell Overture...

/suck it cons

[sharetv.org image 320x240]

Hurry up, hurry up, get the pig pig pigs
Hurry up, hurry up, get the pig pig pigs
Hurry up, hurry up, get the pig pig pigs
Hurry uuuuuup....get the pig pig pigs!


Where does the Lone Ranger take his trash?

To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump
To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump
To the dump, to the dump, to the dump dump dump
To the DUUUUUMP... To the dump dump dump!
 
2012-06-28 11:35:38 AM

Krymson Tyde: Roberts is more evil than Obama. He pretended to be a conservative, but he is nothing more than another beltway liberal who is more interested in cultivating his Washington society friendships than he is in protecting the Constitution, or the rights and liberties of Americans.


There are tens of millions of Americans pretending to be Conservatives. I think the movement is called the Tea Party.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:43 AM

CavalierEternal: Not sure if anyone's posted it yet, but Boehner is about to go live.


Oh boy, where did I leave my galoshes
 
2012-06-28 11:35:43 AM

optimistic_cynic: Yeah I'm amazed how many people forget that this is a government created for the people by the people. Heaven forbid we want to pool our resources/risk to get the best possible return for our healthcare investment.


For the rich people, by the rich people,perhaps...

Hopefully this drives some Teatards to suicide.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:47 AM

TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.


We survived Bush. You will survive Obama.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:51 AM

Dimensio: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: NowhereMon: LOL free republic is melting down

$10 says they call for Roberts to be impeached (or worse).

Why would they do that? Obama would get to appoint another justice, who would surely be more liberal than Roberts.

You have forgotten that most Freepers are also "Birthers". After Justice Roberts is impeached, they will continue their efforts to prove that President Obama is not Constitutionally eligible to hold office. Upon succeeding, which they are confident will occur at Any Day Now, all acts and appointments of Obama will be reversed and Sarah Palin will automatically become President.


So.... because they're a bunch of damned fools is what you're telling me? Unpossible! They're salt of the earth real Murikans that just want their country back!
 
2012-06-28 11:35:56 AM

Thunderpipes: Still scary. Means Congress can regulate your behavior via taxes.


Look up gas taxes and why States have the same drinking age and mostly the same freeway speeds. This is nothing new.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:58 AM

SuperT: So what about working poor whose employers don't offer insurance, they pay the tax that they can ill afford and what do they get in return? Do they get health care in return? Can someone fill me in on how this doesn't fark over the uninsured? I don't think we had a problem with people refusing or choosing not to have insurance, just unable to afford not offered or refused by insurance co.


I think it might be finally time for you to actually read the Act.
 
2012-06-28 11:36:08 AM

bhcompy: you need help: I will never go to the doctor in my lifetime, so this is nothing but butthurt for me.

But if you chose to skip health coverage, it would be more than butthurt. I've opted out of healthcare previously simply because my company will pay me a special bonus for opting out, because they still save money after the bonus. Nothing has changed for them, but now I cannot do that anymore.


And as a mortal human being you are eventually going to get sick and die, and if you were uninsured those costs would have been covered by the insured.

You were simply gambling (with other people's money) that was going to happen later rather than sooner. I shed no tears for you, and you get no sympathy from me.
 
2012-06-28 11:36:13 AM

bhcompy: you need help: I will never go to the doctor in my lifetime, so this is nothing but butthurt for me.

But if you chose to skip health coverage, it would be more than butthurt. I've opted out of healthcare previously simply because my company will pay me a special bonus for opting out, because they still save money after the bonus. Nothing has changed for them, but now I cannot do that anymore.


Sure you can. What part of the law prevents you from doing that? Why wouldn't you, if the bonus was more than the tax for not carrying health insurance?

Also, I don't see why the rest of us should be paying for your uninsured ass to visit the emergency room.
 
2012-06-28 11:36:14 AM

BunkyBrewman: FoxNews is keeping up the fight.

[a57.foxnews.com image 640x387]

/nothing like not updating the headline on their front page for at least half an hour after the decision has been made


As opposed to CNN who updated with the wrong verdict?

No one was prepared for this ruling because it is blatantly obvious that the law was unConstitutional.
 
2012-06-28 11:36:14 AM
Not gonna lie, I did a decently loud "WOOHOO!" and a quick fist-pumping lap around the room when I saw SCOTUSBlog say that long story short, "the entirety of the bill is upheld"
 
2012-06-28 11:36:22 AM

EighthDay: Oh, sorry, did I say interesting? I meant blatantly obvious and expected.



The truth is often obvious and expected.
 
2012-06-28 11:36:39 AM
Hilarious reddit comment on CNN failing so hard with this

"CNN: always first...sometimes right"
 
2012-06-28 11:37:05 AM
Tyrone Slothrop: They already use my taxes to fight wars I don't agree with, and to give bailouts to failing companies. How about taxes actually being used for something useful once?

How about just giving me back my money, and I'll decide what to do with it ?
 
2012-06-28 11:37:08 AM

Thunderpipes: 17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following

90% of HSA plans will not qualify by the way. Remember when you could keep your current insurance? 14 million people use HSA plans. So over 12 million people will be forced to drop their plans or pay more just on that alone.

It is a loss for Obama, Vodka posting moron. He will lost millions of votes because of this. The Medicaid part screws his plans, and all America loses. This is bad news, for Obama.


I guess Obama won't win in 2016.
 
2012-06-28 11:37:11 AM
FIX OLD, NO NEW
 
2012-06-28 11:37:16 AM

inner ted:
there is so much fail there, all in just two sentences.

/hint for you sherlock: most middle class will refuse it cause the CAN'T AFFORD IT.
//the stupid, it hurts. too bad i can't afford insurance to get it looked at.


What the hell are you talking about? Most middle class people don't have health insurance now? You need to check your facts, clown.
 
2012-06-28 11:37:19 AM

Resolute: As a Canadian, I'm getting a kick...


So is the rest of the developed world, I'm sure.
 
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