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(US Supreme Court) NewsFlash Supreme Court rules that Obamacare is constitutional. The bland mask that is Mitt Romney's face twitches with something called "emotion"   (supremecourt.gov) divider line 3382
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14917 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jun 2012 at 10:27 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-06-28 10:54:38 AM  
Wow. Not what I expected to read first thing in the morning...
 
2012-06-28 10:54:42 AM  

Thunderpipes: Most Americans are against the mandate, so you just pissed off a bunch of people who are independents.


Even if Americans aren't keen on the mandate, they like what the mandate pays for. They like that they can't be refused for pre-existing conditions. They like being able to keep their kids on their plans longer. They like many of the individual parts of the plan when they actually find out about it and realize it helps them.

This will not cost Obama votes, and in fact this could help shore up support, because the people who really benefit will now have a motivation to get out there and vote. If the Dems are smart, and who knows they might surprise us, then they'll make sure those pesky non-voting young people realize that letting Republicans take control will directly impact them. If Republicans make this a central issue, they might motivate a lot of voting against them.

And if you don't think people like the plan, then get a list of all the specific parts of this plan and ask people about the specifics. Tick off every part of the plan, and you'll find that people actually like it. Maybe not all of it, but more people than not are willing to deal with the parts they don't like for the parts they do. It's a net positive.
 
2012-06-28 10:54:44 AM  
From SCOTUSBlog: "The rejection of the Commerce Clause and Nec. and Proper Clause [arguments in favor of the ACA] should be understood as a major blow to Congress's authority to pass social welfare laws. Using the tax code -- especially in the current political environment -- to promote social welfare is going to be a very chancy proposition."
 
2012-06-28 10:55:01 AM  
I'm shocked. I really believed that SCOTUS would act politically on this one.
 
2012-06-28 10:55:01 AM  
Never thought I would be glad Roberts was on the court....

Seriously though both Roberts and Kennedy went to the opposite side of the fence on this. This makes me think they are doing damage control. The SCOTUS reputation has been dropping badly since Citizens United, they have seemed just as much a corporate tool as congress at times.
 
2012-06-28 10:55:12 AM  
Good! Next step, single payer!
 
2012-06-28 10:55:21 AM  

verbaltoxin: Clarification from the BBC:

1033: Some explanation of what has just happened: the individual mandate has been upheld within Congress' power in the "Taxing Clause" (Article1, Section 8, Clause 1 of the United States Consitution). In a nutshell: The charge on those who do not acquire a suitable insurance will be a tax authorised by the taxing clause. And so the individual mandate as a whole will be a valid exercise of Congress's taxation power. Is that clear enough?


Count on the BBC to do things right, unlike the American media.
 
2012-06-28 10:55:22 AM  

Corvus: MY JUSTIFICATION OF IT BEING A TAX WAS RIGHT!

How many farkers on here attacked me for saying that?


I think I agreed with you, saying it was no different from George Washington telling people they had to buy muskets, coats, napsacks, etc. as part of the Militia Acts.
 
2012-06-28 10:55:27 AM  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the things that people don't like about Obamacare is that they'll be required to buy health insurance that they feel they don't need as they are in generally good health?
 
2012-06-28 10:55:43 AM  

YoungSwedishBlonde: Holy farking shiat, Roberts upholds Obamacare? My mind is full of billions and billions and billions upon billions of f*ck.


t0.gstatic.com
...So full of f*ck
 
2012-06-28 10:56:00 AM  
Poor America. Maybe now your babies will survive at rates higher than Honduras and your people will live longer than those in Egypt.
 
2012-06-28 10:56:06 AM  

Wyalt Derp: RantCasey: And commence the Republican butthurt.....NOW.

Is butthurt covered under Obamacare?


Actually, it is. And it doesn't matter if it's a pre-existing condition, it's still covered. And if you are under 25, you are covered for it on your parents' policy.
 
2012-06-28 10:56:08 AM  
Good Lord, the freepers are having aneurysms:

"John Robert's poison legacy: Mexican takeover of America, and Socialist dictatorship. IMPEACH this traitorous bastard."
 
2012-06-28 10:56:14 AM  
For everyone surprised about Roberts being the swing: he is a conservative through and through, but he also cares about the image of the Supreme Court and actually does care about precedent (unlike Scalia who is a pure partisan hack adn would probably be happier as a politician). Not totally surprising that he would swing to keep the court from looking like a joke
 
2012-06-28 10:56:19 AM  

tricycleracer: BunkyBrewman: FoxNews is keeping up the fight.

[a57.foxnews.com image 640x387]

/nothing like not updating the headline on their front page for at least half an hour after the decision has been made

Drudge has the news in BIG RED LETTERS but no siren.

I miss the siren.

[dealbreaker.com image 125x125]




dealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.comdealbreaker.com


Now that we have been taken over by socialists the siren now goes "nee naw nee naw nee naw nee naw " instead of the real AMU'RICAN siren. "woo woo woo woo woo woo honk honk"
 
2012-06-28 10:56:19 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: And those that can't afford it? Who will pay for them?


You mean besides the subsidies already built in to the bill to help those who can't afford it?
 
2012-06-28 10:56:20 AM  
Boehner's team will not be spiking the ball today
 
2012-06-28 10:56:24 AM  
i60.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-28 10:56:29 AM  

Doctor Funkenstein: Wait, does this mean we get to put Trig Palin in front of that death panel now?


Yes. It also means we can sterilize the poor under the guise of a "tax."
 
2012-06-28 10:56:33 AM  
Woo-Hoo

This healthcare law wasnt' what I wanted but it is better than what we had, and I am happy with this decision.
 
2012-06-28 10:56:38 AM  
Does this mean my Atena POSII plan won't go up 27% ever year?
 
2012-06-28 10:56:43 AM  
It's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax tax tax. Obama and Democrats raised taxes on all the lower and middle class people in the US. IT'S A TAX! Per the SCOTUS.

Oh where are all the liberals biatching about 5-4 decisions today?
 
2012-06-28 10:56:44 AM  
You know... I dislike both candidates and consider myself to be libertarian... but uh... I don't care about this. You should have health insurance, through the same token that you should have car insurance.
 
2012-06-28 10:56:46 AM  
Legally, this was a piss-poor decision. Yes, the Commerce Clause end of things was upheld, but the SCOTUS basically saved Congress by doing something that Congress never intended to do. That's judicial activism. If Congress had intended the mandate to be a tax, they could have done so directly. SCOTUS inferred that's what they did, which is not the proper role of a judge.

Politically, anyone who wants to argue this is good for Obama is kidding themselves. This is the worst outcome for Obama. (The best being the bill being upheld under the Commerce Clause, the second best being the bill being totally struck down.) Why is this the worst outcome?

1.) This just energized the living fark out of the GOP base. It was ObamaCare that motivated the Tea Party in 2010. Now it's going to do the same in 2012.

2.) It just took away their "RomneyCare" attacks. (Yes, the whole "RomneyCare" bit was incoherent to begin with, but it's less coherent now.)

3.) Obama is now responsible for a major middle-class tax increase. After saying that he wouldn't raise taxes. Repeatedly. This will be in every Romney attack ad through this election season. It should be in them now.

From now on, it's not "ObamaCare." It's the "Obama Health Care Tax". Let's have the President own his massive tax hike right through to November.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:00 AM  

ignatius_crumbcake: Two Free Republic headlines got the outcome wrong. The comments are hilarious as they go from smug to petulant as they realize it was wrong:


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2900385/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2900380/posts


Aww I wish you had a copy of it because the threads have been pulled.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:09 AM  

MasterThief: Silver lining based on SCOTUSBlog: The mandate was not a legit use of the commerce clause, but it was OK as a tax.

So yes, Obama and the Democrats did, in fact, raise taxes on the middle class. After repeatedly promising not to.



We're not paying for two wars anymore and we've eliminated a shiatload of government jobs. There is a difference between "no new taxes" and "I will not INCREASE your taxes".
 
2012-06-28 10:57:10 AM  

Propain_az: Here comes the law of unintended consequences. If you thought health care was bad before.............


....well it will pretty much stay at the same level, since doctors will still be highly trained and paid, hospitals will continue to exist, function, and profit, and insurance, drug, and other medical companies will still be making money hand over fist.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:11 AM  

craig328: We need a healthcare overhaul in the worst farking way but this...this sets a new precedent for the relationship between government and citizenry that I don't think many have fully thought through yet.


The statists in both parties have been thinking it through for ages. That would of course include Romney.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:17 AM  

monoski: Boehner's team will not be spiking the ball today


That is really one of the better parts of today.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:19 AM  

ongbok: Thunderpipes: 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

That will go over real well with the citizens in those states. When the citizens of those states that as you put it "tell Obama and the Feds to go suck it", talk to their family and friends in other states and find out how well they are doing health wise because of Obamacare, I don't think they will be too happy with their state leadership. You can't keep lying to people once they see that somebody is getting something that they are not.


Those states are perfectly happy with that. States already saddled with debt being told to spend billions more on more welfare are not losing anything by choosing not to do so. Might want to think.

Once again, most Americans oppose Obamacare and the individual mandate. Obamacare was built partially by making states foot the bill. States have to balance their budgets you know, feds don't.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:20 AM  

Joe Blowme: Lets look at al the awsome new and increased taxes in this fil
Taxes that took effect in 2010:
2. Codification of the "economic substance doctrine" (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks "substance" and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113
.



Oh comeon, don't be such a horrible pied piper. Could you please give us an example of such a legal tax deduction that is now no longer allowed?

Because I can.

Let's say that I want to give 10,000,000 to my spoiled child, without paying gratuitous transfer taxes. So I create a corporation and issue 20,000,000 in stocks. I've put 20,000,000 into this corporation.l I give B-stocks, which have no control and cannot vote, valued at 10,000,000 to my lazy child. BUT WAIT! The IRS (used to) give me a discount. Since those b-shares can't vote, they get a discount. And since they can't control the company, they get ANOTHER discount. So that 10,000,000 only appears to be 5,000,000. So I'm only taxed on 5,000,000 dollars.

Of course, all of this is unnecessary, as this year you can transfer up to 13,000,000 gratuitously WITHOUT ANY FREAKING TAXES. But next year that goes away. These legal tax deductions you love so much are nothing more than a vehicle for rich people to transfer money without paying the requisite taxes, keeping them rich and us poor.

So go ahead, pied piper. Use a two sentence paragraph to get the plebians pissed off over another "tax hike." Don't even bother explaining what it is, how it will work, or any of that jazz. Which is a right shame, because those tax deductions are freaking amazingly inventive and genius.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:20 AM  

Joe Blowme: Lets look at al ..... holy shiat, 2000 lines of fw:fw:fw: nonsense


If I could flag you on Fark for spamming your uncle's dimwitted emails I would.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:22 AM  

Thunderpipes: LordJiro: Thunderpipes: 17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following

90% of HSA plans will not qualify by the way. Remember when you could keep your current insurance? 14 million people use HSA plans. So over 12 million people will be forced to drop their plans or pay more just on that alone.

It is a loss for Obama, Vodka posting moron. He will lost millions of votes because of this. The Medicaid part screws his plans, and all America loses. This is bad news, for Obama.

Oh wow, I've not seen this phrase used unironically in years. That's just beautiful. Gonna go on about the statisticals next?

See how it plays out. I guarantee you he will lose a lot of votes here. Most Americans do not like being forced to do things. Most Americans are against Obamacare and the individual mandate. The Medicaid part being struck down means Obamacare will cost possibly hundreds of billions more. He is increasing taxes all over the place after saying he would not. He lied about keeping your current insurance if you like it. A big part of the finances was forcing states to expand their Medicaid to cover more people (including lower middle class folks).

Yes, this is bad news for Obama. Not as bad as it could have been, just less bad, or wrong-bad, or babad.


Thunderpipes: LordJiro: Thunderpipes: 17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying "qualifying" health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following

90% of HSA plans will not qualify by the way. Remember when you could keep your current insurance? 14 million people use HSA plans. So over 12 million people will be forced to drop their plans or pay more just on that alone.

It is a loss for Obama, Vodka posting moron. He will lost millions of votes because of this. The Medicaid part screws his plans, and all America loses. This is bad news, for Obama.

Oh wow, I've not seen this phrase used unironically in years. That's just beautiful. Gonna go on about the statisticals next?

See how it plays out. I guarantee you he will lose a lot of votes here. Most Americans do not like being forced to do things. Most Americans are against Obamacare and the individual mandate. The Medicaid part being struck down means Obamacare will cost possibly hundreds of billions more. He is increasing taxes all over the place after saying he would not. He lied about keeping your current insurance if you like it. A big part of the finances was forcing states to expand their Medicaid to cover more people (including lower middle class folks).

Yes, this is bad news for Obama. Not as bad as it could have been, just less bad, or wrong-bad, or babad.


image.shutterstock.com
 
2012-06-28 10:57:23 AM  
I'm genuinely happy about this.

Surprised as hell at the outcome, but genuinely happy.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:27 AM  

Grables'Daughter: Aphostile: Only in America will so many people get their panties in a bunch over something that will help so many in need.

My panties are not in a bunch.


Prove it.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:28 AM  

vpb: TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.

Yes, he has taken away our right to die from treatable ailments. The horror. The horror.


Net result: Americans will now live three and a half years fewer than Canadians, instead of four and a half. Assuming they can count using fractions.

Let freedom ring. Enjoy a cold V-8.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:44 AM  
i47.tinypic.com

Don't worry guys, I got this.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:49 AM  
What I want to know is how the law will affect people that have expatriated from the USA.
/Permanent Dominican Republic resident.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:57 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Jackson Herring: [i.imgur.com image 640x281]

I just want to know why "pocketbook" keeps getting used in the press. Does anybody, anywhere say that these days? It's like "beverages."


My pocketbook is where my wife keeps my testicles.
 
2012-06-28 10:58:04 AM  

Epicedion: Free Republic post headings:

Will John Roberts be remembered in history the same as Benedict Arnold?

Today is The Day U.S. Citizens Became Slaves of Their Government

ObamaCare ruling means Americans hostage to 70 years of Supreme Court madness


LOL! You can count of FR being good for a laugh or two

/Cry moar Freepers!
 
2012-06-28 10:58:12 AM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Thunderpipes: 26 states can tell Obama and the Feds to suck it now, and they will.

Oh yeah, the States just love turning away Federal money.


Y/es, didn't they all turn away the stimulus money? And Colorado, home of the teabagging bootstrappy self starting libertarians, they are totes fighting that fire of thiers without a single federal dollar or plane, right? Oh wait...oh ....ooohhhhhhhhh awwwkwarrrrd
 
2012-06-28 10:58:26 AM  

WombatControl: 1.) This just energized the living fark out of the GOP base. It was ObamaCare that motivated the Tea Party in 2010. Now it's going to do the same in 2012.

2.) It just took away their "RomneyCare" attacks. (Yes, the whole "RomneyCare" bit was incoherent to begin with, but it's less coherent now.)

3.) Obama is now responsible for a major middle-class tax increase. After saying that he wouldn't raise taxes. Repeatedly. This will be in every Romney attack ad through this election season. It should be in them now.

From now on, it's not "ObamaCare." It's the "Obama Health Care Tax". Let's have the President own his massive tax hike right through to November.


You finally figured out how to copy and paste that mass email?
 
2012-06-28 10:58:28 AM  

wxboy: So how exactly does this work? I've always thought the best way to encourage the purchase of health insurance was to either provide a large tax deduction or just allow the cost of insurance to be subtracted from the final income tax amount.

Is that essentially what will happen, or is it something else?

I admit I haven't been paying close attention to this case (or ACA for that matter).


My understanding is it's basically like a tax incentive, but in reverse...you get the "incentive" to buy health insurance by paying a surcharge on your taxes if you DON'T buy it. That's basicallly how Romneycare works in Mass, at least.

I was surprised at the ruling, was expecting a 5-4 shootdown, personally.

As for the "scabby bandage" analogy someone else used, I agree...but this particular scabby bandage was originally proposed by conservatives, then co-opted by liberals. Meanwhile, the original conservatives have neither come up with anything better nor summoned the intestinal fortitude to get rid of things like Medicare.

So, it's better than nothing...I hope.
 
2012-06-28 10:58:33 AM  
America makes me proud sometimes.
 
2012-06-28 10:58:39 AM  

retarded: Good Lord, the freepers are having aneurysms:

"John Robert's poison legacy: Mexican takeover of America, and Socialist dictatorship. IMPEACH this traitorous bastard."


wat
 
2012-06-28 10:58:46 AM  

canyoneer: Not surprising.

First SCOTUS ruled that the state can seize your property and turn it over to a corporation of its choosing.

Then it ruled that corporations can spend unlimited money to influence the political process.

Now it has ruled that the state can force you to buy a product from a corporation of its choosing.

If you object to any of this, there is a law on the books (which no one has "standing" to challenge) which allows the state to declare you a "terrorist" based on secret evidence that you are not allowed to see, and based on this to subject you to indefinite detention and/or extra-judicial execution.

Sounds like everything is in place now.


Gotta love how prescient certain authors turned out to be.
 
2012-06-28 10:58:47 AM  
!!TOUCHDOWN!!

!!TOUCHDOWN!!
!!TOUCHDOWN!!
!!TOUCHDOWN!!
 
2012-06-28 10:58:48 AM  
Sorry, forgot to add that the corporation is then dissolved so that the "5,000,000" in stocks becomes 10,000,000 dollars. So ya, they got rid of a hack in the tax code that created thousands or millions of corporations each year that are then instantly dissolved, merely for the purpose of avoiding paying taxes.
 
2012-06-28 10:58:54 AM  

retarded: Good Lord, the freepers are having aneurysms:

"John Robert's poison legacy: Mexican takeover of America, and Socialist dictatorship. IMPEACH this traitorous bastard."


Oh lord, I would love love LOVE to see the Republicans impeach Roberts. Talk about not thinking their cunning plan all the way through.
 
2012-06-28 10:59:08 AM  

Blues_X: TIKIMAN87: Obama has just destroyed this country.

Obama killed my father, shot my dog, and stole my bible.


I'll miss that dog.
 
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