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(Telegraph)   Someday Italy and Spain will cry out to be saved...and Merkel will whisper...."no"   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 45
    More: Obvious, Angela Merkel, Spain, Italy, Spanish Prime Minister, Italian Prime Minister, Franco-German, Prime Minister of Italy, Bundestag  
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3609 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jun 2012 at 10:16 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-28 10:19:08 AM
NEIN! NEIN, NEIN, NEIN!!
 
2012-06-28 10:19:25 AM
Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.
 
2012-06-28 10:19:47 AM
So Merkel is going to do this press conference blue and naked?
 
2012-06-28 10:26:29 AM

Negligible: So Merkel is going to do this press conference blue and naked?


i.imgur.com
 
2012-06-28 10:27:04 AM
And to rub salt in, Germany will defeat Spain this weekend.
 
2012-06-28 10:30:27 AM

ronaprhys: Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.


Spain was running a budget surplus until the housing bubble fueled by German banks blew up their economy.
 
2012-06-28 10:33:06 AM
In other words, the people who hold things together are getting tired of being taken advantage of.
 
2012-06-28 10:33:08 AM

Mentat: ronaprhys: Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.

Spain was running a budget surplus until the housing bubble fueled by German banks blew up their economy.


So were they wise or foolish to put all their eggs in a government basket dependent on tax revenue from a housing bubble?
 
2012-06-28 10:33:51 AM

Negligible: So Merkel is going to do this press conference blue and naked?


Err, wasn't that Rorshach's line?

So she'd be wearing a morph-mask?
 
2012-06-28 10:34:20 AM
Good for Germany.
 
2012-06-28 10:44:06 AM

Wangiss: Mentat: ronaprhys: Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.

Spain was running a budget surplus until the housing bubble fueled by German banks blew up their economy.

So were they wise or foolish to put all their eggs in a government basket dependent on tax revenue from a housing bubble?


Do you understand how housing bubbles work?
 
2012-06-28 10:44:21 AM
She tried to save Greece. Every time she offered a hand, Greece swatted it away as an affront to it's sovereignty.

I'd be twice-shy about going through the same scenario with another nation too.
 
2012-06-28 10:46:47 AM
You know, I can't help but think that if the US had just stayed out of WWII, and allowed Germany to win, Europe would already be united under one currency, and running smoothly...
 
2012-06-28 10:53:25 AM

Mentat: Wangiss: Mentat: ronaprhys: Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.

Spain was running a budget surplus until the housing bubble fueled by German banks blew up their economy.

So were they wise or foolish to put all their eggs in a government basket dependent on tax revenue from a housing bubble?

Do you understand how housing bubbles work?


Yeah, individuals pay increasingly outlandish amounts for housing.
 
2012-06-28 11:03:14 AM

Mentat: Wangiss: Mentat: ronaprhys: Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.

Spain was running a budget surplus until the housing bubble fueled by German banks blew up their economy.

So were they wise or foolish to put all their eggs in a government basket dependent on tax revenue from a housing bubble?

Do you understand how housing bubbles work?


Yes, and so does California. Governments love bubbles in highly taxable sectors of the economy because bubbles last about as long as election cycles.
 
2012-06-28 11:10:19 AM
Revenge of the Nazis
 
2012-06-28 11:13:32 AM

CheekyMonkey: You know, I can't help but think that if the US had just stayed out of WWII, and allowed Germany to win, Europe would already be united under one currency, and running smoothly...


That was the original plan until the Germans stupidly bombed Pearl Harbor.
 
2012-06-28 11:21:32 AM

instantwin: CheekyMonkey: You know, I can't help but think that if the US had just stayed out of WWII, and allowed Germany to win, Europe would already be united under one currency, and running smoothly...

That was the original plan until the Germans stupidly bombed Pearl Harbor.


Jackasses.
 
2012-06-28 11:21:56 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Mentat: Wangiss: Mentat: ronaprhys: Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.

Spain was running a budget surplus until the housing bubble fueled by German banks blew up their economy.

So were they wise or foolish to put all their eggs in a government basket dependent on tax revenue from a housing bubble?

Do you understand how housing bubbles work?

Yeah, individuals pay increasingly outlandish amounts for housing.


A simple "no" would have sufficed.
 
2012-06-28 11:28:56 AM

Mentat: Debeo Summa Credo: Mentat: Wangiss: Mentat: ronaprhys: Good. Get your people to pay their taxes so you can pay your damned bills or get booted.

That and socialism sucks. Can't pay for everyone to be on the dole.

Spain was running a budget surplus until the housing bubble fueled by German banks blew up their economy.

So were they wise or foolish to put all their eggs in a government basket dependent on tax revenue from a housing bubble?

Do you understand how housing bubbles work?

Yeah, individuals pay increasingly outlandish amounts for housing.

A simple "no" would have sufficed.


Debeo's answer was accurate if not informative. Did you need some more information on housing bubbles? There's a helpful site some people use when they want the gist of something. It's not always spot-on, but the information is free and it usually references external sources, often peer-reviewed: It's called "Wikipedia". It's a weird name; don't let it deter you. There are hundreds of thousands of articles in many different languages.
 
2012-06-28 11:35:11 AM

CheekyMonkey: You know, I can't help but think that if the US had just stayed out of WWII, and allowed Germany to win, Europe would already be united under one currency, and running smoothly...


Yeah, but you know where the grease would come from, right?

/same place as the soap.
//and the lampshades.
///mein Herr Trollen.
 
2012-06-28 11:48:56 AM
Negligible: So Merkel is going to do this press conference blue and naked?

PunGent: Err, wasn't that Rorshach's line?
So she'd be wearing a morph-mask?


OK, so if Germany is Rorschach then I guess the US is Dr Manhattan - uber powerful and disengaged.
So which of the Watchmen characters are we in the UK?

My vote is The Comedian - secretly does the USA's dirty work.
 
2012-06-28 11:50:42 AM

Debeo Summa Credo:

Do you understand how housing bubbles work?

Yeah, individuals pay increasingly outlandish amounts for housing.


Normal people do that. The rich can continuously churn houses making a huge profit on every sale....
 
2012-06-28 11:52:22 AM

Joce678: Debeo Summa Credo:

Do you understand how housing bubbles work?

Yeah, individuals pay increasingly outlandish amounts for housing.

Normal people do that. The rich can continuously churn houses making a huge profit on every sale....


I'm sticking to tiny, one-line classified ads in newspapers. We'll see who ends up on top.
 
2012-06-28 11:52:49 AM

Valiente: CheekyMonkey: You know, I can't help but think that if the US had just stayed out of WWII, and allowed Germany to win, Europe would already be united under one currency, and running smoothly...

Yeah, but you know where the grease would come from, right?

/same place as the soap.
//and the lampshades.
///mein Herr Trollen.


Yeah, I know. I wasn't actually advocating the idea. Just sayin', is all.
 
2012-06-28 12:06:36 PM

Wangiss: Mentat: Debeo Summa Credo: Mentat: Do you understand how housing bubbles work?

Yeah, individuals pay increasingly outlandish amounts for housing.

A simple "no" would have sufficed.

Debeo's answer was accurate if not informative. Did you need some more information on housing bubbles? There's a helpful site some people use when they want the gist of something. It's not always spot-on, but the information is free and it usually references external sources, often peer-reviewed: It's called "Wikipedia". It's a weird name; don't let it deter you. There are hundreds of thousands of articles in many different languages.


That's just the dictionary definition of housing bubbles. Mentat's personal, far superior (in his own mind) definition is, "magic spell I can invoke to shift the blame for anything wherever I want."

/like "one percenter"
//or "Zionist"
 
2012-06-28 12:07:03 PM
If the entire global economy crashes because of this, and it very well might, Germany will be hurt far more than it would have been if they had just given them the damn money, and Angela Merkel will go down in history as the worst chancellor since Hitler. Yes the money should be loaned with certain conditions, no that doesn't mean cutting back on everything in the middle of the worst economic downturn since the Depression.
 
2012-06-28 12:07:41 PM

Tatterdemalian: Wangiss: Mentat: Debeo Summa Credo: Mentat: Do you understand how housing bubbles work?

Yeah, individuals pay increasingly outlandish amounts for housing.

A simple "no" would have sufficed.

Debeo's answer was accurate if not informative. Did you need some more information on housing bubbles? There's a helpful site some people use when they want the gist of something. It's not always spot-on, but the information is free and it usually references external sources, often peer-reviewed: It's called "Wikipedia". It's a weird name; don't let it deter you. There are hundreds of thousands of articles in many different languages.

That's just the dictionary definition of housing bubbles. Mentat's personal, far superior (in his own mind) definition is, "magic spell I can invoke to shift the blame for anything wherever I want."

/like "one percenter"
//or "Zionist"


Oh, I didn't know you two had a history. Sorry for butting in.
 
2012-06-28 12:16:32 PM

Wangiss: Oh, I didn't know you two had a history. Sorry for butting in.


You're welcome.

/want privacy?
//try that e-mail thing
 
2012-06-28 12:20:01 PM

malaktaus: If the entire global economy crashes because of this, and it very well might, Germany will be hurt far more than it would have been if they had just given them the damn money, and Angela Merkel will go down in history as the worst chancellor since Hitler. Yes the money should be loaned with certain conditions, no that doesn't mean cutting back on everything in the middle of the worst economic downturn since the Depression.


You think Germany is going to suffer? That's rich. Germany has stuff. Everyone around them has no stuff. That's a position of power no matter what else happens. Germany will suffer disproportionately less than everyone else in every conceivable potentiality outside of some group of powers invading Germany. They've played every card right. High interest on default-prone loans is cash money every month. If they default, it's still not a lot of money in relation to German GDP. The house always wins.
 
2012-06-28 12:34:05 PM

Wangiss: malaktaus: If the entire global economy crashes because of this, and it very well might, Germany will be hurt far more than it would have been if they had just given them the damn money, and Angela Merkel will go down in history as the worst chancellor since Hitler. Yes the money should be loaned with certain conditions, no that doesn't mean cutting back on everything in the middle of the worst economic downturn since the Depression.

You think Germany is going to suffer? That's rich. Germany has stuff. Everyone around them has no stuff. That's a position of power no matter what else happens. Germany will suffer disproportionately less than everyone else in every conceivable potentiality outside of some group of powers invading Germany. They've played every card right. High interest on default-prone loans is cash money every month. If they default, it's still not a lot of money in relation to German GDP. The house always wins.


Who are they going to sell their stuff to if nobody else has any money? The German economy relies on exports, arguably more than any other country in the world, including China. 60% of those exports go to the EU. You think everything in Germany will be copacetic if that drops to nothing? It's not like they have a vast, untapped domestic market to fall back on.
 
2012-06-28 12:55:46 PM
cbssanfran.files.wordpress.com

First thing that popped into my head reading the headline.
 
2012-06-28 01:14:32 PM

Wangiss: You think Germany is going to suffer? That's rich. Germany has stuff. Everyone around them has no stuff. That's a position of power no matter what else happens. Germany will suffer disproportionately less than everyone else in every conceivable potentiality outside of some group of powers invading Germany. They've played every card right. High interest on default-prone loans is cash money every month. If they default, it's still not a lot of money in relation to German GDP. The house always wins.


The problem is that having stuff also makes you vulnerable. The ones who don't have stuff start to resent you for it, no matter how the situation came about, and it eventually reaches a critical mass where they simply take it from you, imagining whatever justifications they might need. If they've got numbers on their side, they win.

From a standpoint of numbers this is not much different from the way they were taking advantage of your before, but it tends to involve considerably more pain.
 
2012-06-28 01:21:40 PM

Millennium: The problem is that having stuff also makes you vulnerable. The ones who don't have stuff start to resent you for it, no matter how the situation came about, and it eventually reaches a critical mass where they simply try take it from you, imagining whatever justifications they might need. If they've got numbers on their side, they win.

From a standpoint of numbers this is not much different from the way they were taking advantage of your before, but it tends to involve considerably more pain.


In a different time, yes, they'd try. At this point, however, it's hard to imagine someone actually attempting to take Germany's stuff. Or the US's stuff.

Or, honestly, even the stuff from the rich. Sure, you might have some short term looting (Katrina, LA) but invariably they don't make it to the actual rich neighborhoods. They loot the shops in their own areas. I don't think it'd work on a large scale as that'd require too much coordination and our politicians, being the whores they are, would simply vote them a slightly large dole. If you can keep the poor relatively happy (defined as shiny rims on their car, a big screen TV, nice ATV, or whatever else they want - even if they've mortgaged their entire financial future to get the shiny new toy) then revolts defuse quickly.
 
2012-06-28 02:13:29 PM
That woman needs a shoulder rub.
 
2012-06-28 02:21:15 PM

CheekyMonkey: You know, I can't help but think that if the US had just stayed out of WWII, and allowed Germany to win, Europe would already be united under one currency, and running smoothly...


That guy's proposed lyrics for the Anthem of Europe did seem just a little too Horst Wesselly for me.
 
2012-06-28 02:40:03 PM

ronaprhys: Millennium: The problem is that having stuff also makes you vulnerable. The ones who don't have stuff start to resent you for it, no matter how the situation came about, and it eventually reaches a critical mass where they simply try take it from you, imagining whatever justifications they might need. If they've got numbers on their side, they win.

From a standpoint of numbers this is not much different from the way they were taking advantage of your before, but it tends to involve considerably more pain.

In a different time, yes, they'd try. At this point, however, it's hard to imagine someone actually attempting to take Germany's stuff. Or the US's stuff.

Or, honestly, even the stuff from the rich. Sure, you might have some short term looting (Katrina, LA) but invariably they don't make it to the actual rich neighborhoods. They loot the shops in their own areas. I don't think it'd work on a large scale as that'd require too much coordination and our politicians, being the whores they are, would simply vote them a slightly large dole. If you can keep the poor relatively happy (defined as shiny rims on their car, a big screen TV, nice ATV, or whatever else they want - even if they've mortgaged their entire financial future to get the shiny new toy) then revolts defuse quickly.


THIS.

The con artists who sell revolutionary class warfare always claim it's rich vs. poor. The trick is that, in reality, it's poor and rich vs. middle class. It never really gets to rich vs. poor because, after they destroy the middle class, the proles get too hungry to keep up the fight, and so quietly submit to the rich, who get to decide how the remaining food gets distributed.

/the only people who win are the con artists who join the rich with the wealth they squeeze out of the poor
 
2012-06-28 03:21:30 PM
You know what a good Watchmen headline puts me in the mood for?

theapronarchives.files.wordpress.com

Yum, yum.

(http://theoryofeverythingcomics.com/2009/03/presidential-trouble.htm l )
 
2012-06-28 05:37:53 PM

Wangiss: Debeo's answer was accurate if not informative. Did you need some more information on housing bubbles? There's a helpful site some people use when they want the gist of something. It's not always spot-on, but the information is free and it usually references external sources, often peer-reviewed: It's called "Wikipedia". It's a weird name; don't let it deter you. There are hundreds of thousands of articles in many different languages.


Did you just snottily tell me to educate myself using Wikipedia? Because I thought I was doing good by reading the Financial Crisis Inquiry Report.
 
2012-06-28 06:01:48 PM
It's too bad, the post-war generations of Germans, especially in the west, have been indoctrinated with the notion that it's not ok to think of their own country first. I'm surprised, that there's no open dissent toward the government's European policies. How long are these folks are going to take it, that they have to work harder and pay more, just so the southern EU countries can have their siestas and hold up their collective hands for more, more and more. I guess, it's a good thing the German army is barely more than a fire brigade with guns these days.
 
2012-06-28 07:15:54 PM
I can think of 2-0 reasons that there won't be a bailout for Italy.
 
2012-06-28 07:39:28 PM

Mentat: Wangiss: Debeo's answer was accurate if not informative. Did you need some more information on housing bubbles? There's a helpful site some people use when they want the gist of something. It's not always spot-on, but the information is free and it usually references external sources, often peer-reviewed: It's called "Wikipedia". It's a weird name; don't let it deter you. There are hundreds of thousands of articles in many different languages.

Did you just snottily tell me to educate myself using Wikipedia? Because I thought I was doing good by reading the Financial Crisis Inquiry Report.


I see you like what I did there.
 
2012-06-28 11:02:55 PM

malaktaus: Who are they going to sell their stuff to if nobody else has any money? The German economy relies on exports, arguably more than any other country in the world, including China. 60% of those exports go to the EU. You think everything in Germany will be copacetic if that drops to nothing? It's not like they have a vast, untapped domestic market to fall back on.


Well, since the surrounding countries have resources that Germany needs to make more stuff, they can exchange resources for money.

Once they exchange resources they will have money to buy stuff, possibly from Germany.

Since these countries haven't been fiscally responsible, they will need money and the stuff that money buys, more than Germany needs their resources. This results in Germany's money being worth a lot more than the resources those countries hold.

This increases Germany's buying power, which strengthens their manufacturing base.

Once the idea of exchanging resources for money, then using that money to buy finished goods and resources not locally sourced, catches on perhaps the whole continent might grow what you could call a "Flourishing" Economy.

but that's just crazy talk, Germany should just hand cash over to any country that can't be bothered to manufacture goods or set up proper chains of distribution of resources because the economy is bad.

Obviously cutting expenses and selling stuff is no way to increase liquid funds and stabilize an economy. What a thought! We all know when you are heavily in debt the only way out of it is to borrow even vaster sums of money to blow on consumables and bribes to the citizens while your infrastructure and economic base continues to rot.
 
2012-06-29 12:20:32 PM

H31N0US: And to rub salt in, Germany will defeat Spain this weekend.


Not sure if serious ಠ_ಠ

/Italia! Italia!
 
2012-06-30 03:55:16 AM
I think we made them scream "NO NO NO NO" enough the other evening when our lovely Italian black player scored twice... I wonder if he has a little Jewish ancestry in him too...
 
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