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(Den Of Geek)   Starship Troopers reboot to be less violent. Would you like to know more?   (denofgeek.com) divider line 164
    More: Unlikely, Starship Troopers, jumpsuits, Robert Heinlein, Paul Verhoeven, Empire Magazine, reboot, RPGs, Total Recall  
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4335 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 28 Jun 2012 at 9:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-28 06:54:55 AM
I'm okay with this. ST was more of a Military drama set in space than it was the campy send-up of Fascism we saw in the first movie. Jump suits lobbing atomic weapons at enemy aliens (that eventually fight along side us against the bugs), bugs that aren't giant cockroaches but are actually an insect-like race with their own sophisticated starships, all that could make for an excellent film.

That said, they will screw it all up. Again.
 
2012-06-28 07:20:21 AM
The Roughnecks TV CG series was more true to the book.

The one thing that Verhoeven got right, was the shower scene. Not because it had it had Dina Meyer's bewbs, but because it had soldiers bantering back and forth. It wasn't a sexy scene, it was soldiers cracking on each other.

My problem with Verhoeven's version was that he hated the book. Hated everything about it, and it would be nice to see someone who liked the material not make it a parody...
 
2012-06-28 07:31:36 AM

hubiestubert: The Roughnecks TV CG series was more true to the book.

The one thing that Verhoeven got right, was the shower scene. Not because it had it had Dina Meyer's bewbs, but because it had soldiers bantering back and forth. It wasn't a sexy scene, it was soldiers cracking on each other.

My problem with Verhoeven's version was that he hated the book. Hated everything about it, and it would be nice to see someone who liked the material not make it a parody...


Absolutely. Heinlein would have freaked out if he saw what Verhoeven did to his story. I would really like to see a semi-accurate movie rendition of ST because it would be pretty damn good. Yes, they'd have to embellish it a bit, maybe add some more combat scenes (or expand those already there), but it would basically be a classic, WWII war film... set in space. And that would work, if done properly.
 
2012-06-28 07:50:13 AM

hubiestubert: The one thing that Verhoeven got right, was the shower scene. Not because it had it had Dina Meyer's bewbs, but because it had soldiers bantering back and forth. It wasn't a sexy scene, it was soldiers cracking on each other.


I never read the source material but if that scene is more true to the books then maybe I should. It's one of the few scenes I've ever seen with nudity where the predominate theme wasn't "ooooh look, boobs!".
 
2012-06-28 07:58:17 AM

hubiestubert: The one thing that Verhoeven got right, was the shower scene. Not because it had it had Dina Meyer's bewbs, but because it had soldiers bantering back and forth. It wasn't a sexy scene, it was soldiers cracking on each other.


True, but Dina Meyer's boobs certainly act as an effective force multiplier in this case.
(NSFW)
 
2012-06-28 08:29:00 AM

itsdan: It's one of the few scenes I've ever seen with nudity where the predominate theme wasn't "ooooh look, boobs!".


It was for me...
 
2012-06-28 09:17:09 AM

tallguywithglasseson: itsdan: It's one of the few scenes I've ever seen with nudity where the predominate theme wasn't "ooooh look, boobs!".

It was for me...


Same here.
 
2012-06-28 09:27:52 AM

hubiestubert: My problem with Verhoeven's version was that he hated the book. Hated everything about it, and it would be nice to see someone who liked the material not make it a parody...


Verhoeven has said in interviews he thinks all scifi is stupid. That's why all of his scifi movies are over-the-top. But SST was a crime and said basically the exact opposite of what the book was saying.
 
2012-06-28 09:28:53 AM
So no Neil Patrick Harris shoving a spike through a giant alien vagina? Pass.
 
2012-06-28 09:30:34 AM
*clicks link*

"Jaffe said of Paul Verhoeven's take on the material that his movie was "a critique of fascism, whereas Heinlein was writing from the persective of someone who had served in World War II ... one man's fascism is another man's patriotism"

Why does this interpretation worry me?
 
2012-06-28 09:40:37 AM

vygramul: hubiestubert: My problem with Verhoeven's version was that he hated the book. Hated everything about it, and it would be nice to see someone who liked the material not make it a parody...

Verhoeven has said in interviews he thinks all scifi is stupid. That's why all of his scifi movies are over-the-top. But SST was a crime and said basically the exact opposite of what the book was saying.


The thing about Verhoeven is that he likes to say he's making "artistic statements" about sex and violence. He tells himself that he's making commentary on society. And then he shovels in as much over the top ridiculousness and wallows in the very images that he tells folks that he's trying to pillory. Showgirls was a great example, of just losing the thread of the "statement" and instead, just getting off on it, and not realizing when he'd crossed the line to masturbatory revenge fantasy. He's obsessed with sex and cartoonish violence, but he likes to hide that back by labeling it something else. At least Russ Meyer was honest about his obsession. At least Michael Bay is up front about "asplosions for EVERYONE!" Verhoeven just likes to hide his obsessions behind layers of psychopop cultural analysis, and he actively enjoys crapping on stuff, collecting a buck, and then hiding behind "artistic vision that you wouldn't understand" as his defense. He's more talented than Uwe Boll for certain--though, to be fair, Uwe Boll's job was to make crappy movies as tax shelters, but likewise he liked to pretend he was a "serious" filmmaker--but in the end, they're both essentially trolling audiences and studios...
 
2012-06-28 09:43:58 AM
The movie was hilarious. The only problem was they tried to brand it as Heinlein related. If they'd just released it as its own movie without claiming any tie ins to the book, it would have been even better.

/of course you can troll people for nerd rage with "I saw the movie, why bother to read the book?"
//read the book before I saw the movie
 
2012-06-28 09:44:11 AM
Starship Troopers was a great movie if you remember this: this isn't Robert Heinlein's story. This is Paul Verhoeven's film. They are completely different things.

A more accurate adaptation of Starship Troopers would be great. In fact, it's been done as a CG series called Starship Troopers; The Roughneck Chronicles.
 
2012-06-28 09:45:14 AM

DjangoStonereaver: hubiestubert: The one thing that Verhoeven got right, was the shower scene. Not because it had it had Dina Meyer's bewbs, but because it had soldiers bantering back and forth. It wasn't a sexy scene, it was soldiers cracking on each other.

True, but Dina Meyer's boobs certainly act as an effective force multiplier in this case. (NSFW)


This, most definitely this. ^^^ I always thought she was smoking hot.
 
2012-06-28 09:45:46 AM
Psh. What a gyp. Verhoeven's gore was an essential part of the satire, just like in Robocop.
 
2012-06-28 09:46:17 AM
*Sigh* No.
 
2012-06-28 09:47:26 AM

vygramul: *clicks link*

"Jaffe said of Paul Verhoeven's take on the material that his movie was "a critique of fascism, whereas Heinlein was writing from the persective of someone who had served in World War II ... one man's fascism is another man's patriotism"

Why does this interpretation worry me?


Because Heinlein had been invalided out of the Navy for medical reasons *PRIOR* to WWII. He did help with research as a civilian, but never saw any combat, so right off the bat there is a gross misunderstanding of the man.
 
mhd
2012-06-28 09:52:57 AM
Closer to the novel does sound good, but even a good adaption (i.e. they don't mess things up straight-away) will have to tackle the military approach. Even before the movie, Heinlein was criticized for alleged pseudo-fascist undertones. I'm not saying it's that easy, but it's certainly a focal point of the whole story. Making it into a farce is actually the easy way out, it's a very hard topic to approach even-handed.

Maybe they'll just go with a slightly four-color, PG-13 version. A bit over the top, maybe even a bit retro space opera. Old-fashioned, tongue-in-cheek patriotism replacing thinly veiled fascism.

One thing I'm actually willing to bet on: The main characters will be quite white-washed (were they Fillipino or Brazilian in the original?)
 
2012-06-28 09:58:13 AM
It was a campy and horribly acted movie but at least it had boobs. Don't really care if it was true to any book.
 
2012-06-28 09:58:33 AM

hubiestubert: The thing about Verhoeven is that he likes to say he's making "artistic statements" about sex and violence. He tells himself that he's making commentary on society. And then he shovels in as much over the top ridiculousness and wallows in the very images that he tells folks that he's trying to pillory.


I'm not going to defend Showgirls, but plenty of Verhoeven's films work both as a satire and as a straightforward example of what they're satirizing. Robocop is probably the best example - if you haven't seen it in a while, go back and watch it as a satire. It's like it simultaneously manages to be two different films..
 
2012-06-28 09:58:39 AM

Bloody William: Starship Troopers was a great movie if you remember this: this isn't Robert Heinlein's story. This is Paul Verhoeven's film. They are completely different things.


They SHOULD have been completely different things.

Reminds me of how Mamoru Oshii royally pissed off some fans with Ghost in the Shell. The people who only saw the movie didn't know what the fuss was about, because it was a very complete film. The problem was the tone was completely different from the original material. His cardinal sin was using the names of basically unrelated works to sell his. Except unlike Verhoeven, Oshii actually makes damn good films. Patlabor 2 would've been an incredible slow thriller if it wasn't for the fact that pretty much every character from the show had their personalities re-written.

Verhoeven made an otherwise enjoyable 2-star action flick with some over-the-top social commentary. If they simply didn't name the film Starship Troopers people might've just confused it for the latest Michael Bay cash cow.
 
2012-06-28 09:58:47 AM
paul verhoeven has made three of my all time favorite films.

Robocop.

Total Recall.

Starship Troopers.

all three are ultra violent, funny, fun, sexy, and all three hold up to repeat viewing.

Hell, Robocop is the single best movie ever made that isn't Aliens.

Troopers fans need to stop biatching about that movie. that movie (Starship Troopers) is farking AWESOME. NO, it isn't the book. I wish they would make a movie that was closer to the book. But Paul's film is brilliant.

Don't like it?

blog.ledebugger.com

TOO BAD.
 
2012-06-28 10:02:17 AM

frepnog: paul verhoeven has made three of my all time favorite films.

Robocop.

Total Recall.

Starship Troopers.

all three are ultra violent, funny, fun, sexy, and all three hold up to repeat viewing.

Hell, Robocop is the single best movie ever made that isn't Aliens.

Troopers fans need to stop biatching about that movie. that movie (Starship Troopers) is farking AWESOME. NO, it isn't the book. I wish they would make a movie that was closer to the book. But Paul's film is brilliant.

Don't like it?

[blog.ledebugger.com image 490x261]

TOO BAD.


*Beating bongo drums* My sentiments exactly!
 
2012-06-28 10:03:05 AM

vygramul: *clicks link*

"Jaffe said of Paul Verhoeven's take on the material that his movie was "a critique of fascism, whereas Heinlein was writing from the persective of someone who had served in World War II ... one man's fascism is another man's patriotism"

Why does this interpretation worry me?


There are folks who take some exception to the concept of service for citizenship. In Heinlein's book, it was a position taken after watching chickenhawks of all stripes voting to send folks off to a war that they and their own children would never fight, and who only fed at the public trough, but didn't actually give back. In part, the book is commentary on the state the nation was in. It was bound up in some of his thoughts on politics in general, and the nature of service. Some folks looked on the idea of military service alone, but in that book, there was plenty of other services one could perform in. The idea was that in order to vote, you had to first serve your society in some way, to earn the franchise. Put your own needs second, and then you can earn the right to influence that society.
 
2012-06-28 10:04:07 AM
The film was tongue-in-cheek and it worked. They strayed enough from the source material that it was definitely not Heinlein's world, but were goofy enough about that few cared overmuch.

I think it can be done, and done well. Though I'd halfway prefer a mini-series.
 
2012-06-28 10:05:08 AM
Verhoeven's movie was stupid. For a movie based on Starship Troopers, it certainly wasn't based on any of the theme, characterization, plot, or technology in the novel.
 
2012-06-28 10:05:35 AM

mhd: Even before the movie, Heinlein was criticized for alleged pseudo-fascist undertones.


I don't think those critiques are necessarily valid. It might *SEEM* crypto-fascist to someone who's never been in the military, but that's because they don't understand the difference between real fascism and the structured, ordered military mindset. From the outside, they might seem similar, and certainly fascism has co-opted the second at times, but the second has also been used to defeat fascism, so it's a wash.
 
2012-06-28 10:06:12 AM

itsdan: hubiestubert: The one thing that Verhoeven got right, was the shower scene. Not because it had it had Dina Meyer's bewbs, but because it had soldiers bantering back and forth. It wasn't a sexy scene, it was soldiers cracking on each other.

I never read the source material but if that scene is more true to the books then maybe I should. It's one of the few scenes I've ever seen with nudity where the predominate theme wasn't "ooooh look, boobs!".


Do you wanna know how I know you're gay?
 
2012-06-28 10:08:06 AM
I like Verhoeven's version. No, it ain't the book. But I don't care in this case, because it's subversive, fun, and has just the right balance between cheese and social commentary to make it a classic as far as I'm concerned.

And yes, I like the shower scene, too... But that's just icing on the cake. The real fun of the flick is the way Verhoeven plays with the audience. It's his proto-Showgirls. It's brilliant schlock.
 
2012-06-28 10:09:39 AM

hubiestubert: vygramul: hubiestubert: My problem with Verhoeven's version was that he hated the book. Hated everything about it, and it would be nice to see someone who liked the material not make it a parody...

Verhoeven has said in interviews he thinks all scifi is stupid. That's why all of his scifi movies are over-the-top. But SST was a crime and said basically the exact opposite of what the book was saying.

The thing about Verhoeven is that he likes to say he's making "artistic statements" about sex and violence. He tells himself that he's making commentary on society. And then he shovels in as much over the top ridiculousness and wallows in the very images that he tells folks that he's trying to pillory. Showgirls was a great example, of just losing the thread of the "statement" and instead, just getting off on it, and not realizing when he'd crossed the line to masturbatory revenge fantasy. He's obsessed with sex and cartoonish violence, but he likes to hide that back by labeling it something else. At least Russ Meyer was honest about his obsession. At least Michael Bay is up front about "asplosions for EVERYONE!" Verhoeven just likes to hide his obsessions behind layers of psychopop cultural analysis, and he actively enjoys crapping on stuff, collecting a buck, and then hiding behind "artistic vision that you wouldn't understand" as his defense. He's more talented than Uwe Boll for certain--though, to be fair, Uwe Boll's job was to make crappy movies as tax shelters, but likewise he liked to pretend he was a "serious" filmmaker--but in the end, they're both essentially trolling audiences and studios...


And that's what makes him awesome.
 
2012-06-28 10:12:24 AM

ZeroCorpse: And that's what makes him awesome.


Don't forget this is the director responsible for Hollow Man. The guy is an utter hack.
 
2012-06-28 10:12:47 AM
A straight version of starship troopers would be as relevant as the recent reboot of John Carter. And movies have tried to have intelligent species who were not human like...............how many succeed? We will not see a movie where the aliens in starship troopers are treated as intelligent in their own right, unless we go into straight out horror movie territory, and only then if the need to shock doesn't overwhelm the story (good luck with that)

is this new version of starship troopers going to be a horror movie? what is its purpose? the 90s film version WORKS as satire.

what is the message supposed to be of the reboot?
 
2012-06-28 10:14:57 AM

DjangoStonereaver: hubiestubert: The one thing that Verhoeven got right, was the shower scene. Not because it had it had Dina Meyer's bewbs, but because it had soldiers bantering back and forth. It wasn't a sexy scene, it was soldiers cracking on each other.

True, but Dina Meyer's boobs certainly act as an effective force multiplier in this case. (NSFW)


They are not good boobs

these are good boobs Oh boy...
 
2012-06-28 10:19:00 AM

Cinaed: I think it can be done, and done well. Though I'd halfway prefer a mini-series.


I think you need a mini series to do Starship Troopers well or at least a couple of movies. To cram it into a movie you're cutting out some of the some of the important secondary characters. Depending on which ones/secenes you cut the story will slide out of balance and end up looking really violent, really fascist, or just one other aspect.

I'd think Starship Troopers would really shine if it was given the BSG treatment and done in a planned series. Season 1 can be graduation and training. Season 2 is the first part of Bug War. Season 3 is post OCS Rico and more bug war.

The real achievement in my mind would be mold John Steakley's Armor and Heinlien's Starship troopers together (Armor. Steakley's focus on how violence impacts soldiers would be timely and I enjoyed the depth of Felix. The opening seen in Armor with the asian girl was the one of the few times I've actually had to put a book down, go "God damn" and regain my composure before continuing regarding. Rico's near mechanical devotion to duty and ability to totally ignore the horrors of war is one of the weaker points of Starship Troopers IMHO. All the main characters seemingly internalize the horrors extremely well and the guys who have nervous breakdowns are mostly just mentioned in passing. Rico is the killing machine everyone thinks they are when they make it out of boot, Felix is what you come back as.

/I highly recommend Armor if you haven't read it
 
2012-06-28 10:24:17 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: A straight version of starship troopers would be as relevant as the recent reboot of John Carter. And movies have tried to have intelligent species who were not human like...............how many succeed? We will not see a movie where the aliens in starship troopers are treated as intelligent in their own right, unless we go into straight out horror movie territory, and only then if the need to shock doesn't overwhelm the story (good luck with that)

is this new version of starship troopers going to be a horror movie? what is its purpose? the 90s film version WORKS as satire.

what is the message supposed to be of the reboot?


The same as the book? That chickenhawks might not be useful? That the nature of service, in the face of danger, might be useful? That the folks who face the danger might want folks in charge that have at least put down their wallets a few times over the years to do something other than stuff it down deeper?

At its heart, Starship Troopers explores the idea of what it's like to put your own needs aside for the needs of those around you. That when faced with extinction, folks pulling together is what we need to do. That war is filled with insane and stupid occurrences that will kill you just as fast as strong intentions by an enemy. If anything, it's very much relevant today...
 
2012-06-28 10:28:38 AM
One question. Are the people upset about the previous movie treatment a. also upset about the 3 Transformers movies or b. critical of anyone that didn't like the 3 Transformers movies?
 
2012-06-28 10:32:12 AM

ha-ha-guy: Cinaed: I think it can be done, and done well. Though I'd halfway prefer a mini-series.

I think you need a mini series to do Starship Troopers well or at least a couple of movies. To cram it into a movie you're cutting out some of the some of the important secondary characters. Depending on which ones/secenes you cut the story will slide out of balance and end up looking really violent, really fascist, or just one other aspect.

I'd think Starship Troopers would really shine if it was given the BSG treatment and done in a planned series. Season 1 can be graduation and training. Season 2 is the first part of Bug War. Season 3 is post OCS Rico and more bug war.

The real achievement in my mind would be mold John Steakley's Armor and Heinlien's Starship troopers together (Armor. Steakley's focus on how violence impacts soldiers would be timely and I enjoyed the depth of Felix. The opening seen in Armor with the asian girl was the one of the few times I've actually had to put a book down, go "God damn" and regain my composure before continuing regarding. Rico's near mechanical devotion to duty and ability to totally ignore the horrors of war is one of the weaker points of Starship Troopers IMHO. All the main characters seemingly internalize the horrors extremely well and the guys who have nervous breakdowns are mostly just mentioned in passing. Rico is the killing machine everyone thinks they are when they make it out of boot, Felix is what you come back as.

/I highly recommend Armor if you haven't read it


Seconded.
 
2012-06-28 10:36:09 AM

frepnog: paul verhoeven has made three of my all time favorite films.

Robocop.

Total Recall.

Starship Troopers.

all three are ultra violent, funny, fun, sexy, and all three hold up to repeat viewing.

Hell, Robocop is the single best movie ever made that isn't Aliens.

Troopers fans need to stop biatching about that movie. that movie (Starship Troopers) is farking AWESOME. NO, it isn't the book. I wish they would make a movie that was closer to the book. But Paul's film is brilliant.

Don't like it?

[blog.ledebugger.com image 490x261]

TOO BAD.


Thank you. I quite enjoyed the movie and the book. I have no burning need to reconcile those two things.
 
2012-06-28 10:40:23 AM

dittybopper: It might *SEEM* crypto-fascist to someone who's never been in the military, but that's because they don't understand the difference between real fascism and the structured, ordered military mindset. From the outside, they might seem similar, and certainly fascism has co-opted the second at times, but the second has also been used to defeat fascism, so it's a wash.


That's a legitimate argument, so let's just say I agree 100%. For starters, discipline is required in the military for tactical reasons. The first distinction between "scrubs" and "elite" soldiers was whether they were trained to simply stay in the fight, and that's just as true today as 2500 years ago.

However, I feel the need to point out a distinction. When people say "pseudo-fascist", I often think they haven't quite pinned down what they feel themselves. Heinlein was certainly no fascist; his nationalism seemed genuine to me. On the other hand, Heinlein shares in common a particular form of arrogance that I've seen among some in the military -- that anyone who's awesome is a soldier first. To be fair, this is understandable. They experience shiat most others don't. Anyone who makes it through the military has a right to think they've been through a lot, and Heinlein is not wrong for being sympathetic to their well-earned pride.

Where I cry bullshiat is this tone I sometimes get from military folk (and bleeds through Heinlein's writing) who think military service is the ONLY way to become badass. There are some doctors, scientists and others who are every bit as worthy of respect from the best soldiers on the planet, but they don't get it because they're not soldiers. Not to mention, not every soldier is honorable. That almost religious unquestioning worship of all things military isn't fascism per se, but it's such a common symptom of fascism that it gives people the same heebie-jeebies. Heinlein certainly was smart enough to note that citizenship should be tied to compulsory national service, not necessarily military service, but he couldn't completely hide his bias. Consider his famous quote:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Not to disagree with him because I do think it's a great quote, but a good portion of these expectations apply to combat and a few of them ONLY apply to combat. Combat is an unavoidable facet of life, but consider the guy was a sci-fi writer and this quote doesn't even mention science (tho we did get math & computing).
 
2012-06-28 10:42:11 AM
As long as Verhoeven isn't allowed anywhere near it, the reboot has got a chance at being decent. The first five pages of the book was better than the entire piece of shiat he made.
 
2012-06-28 10:43:45 AM
A pretty good movie, but a wasted opportunity to show Denise Richards' bewbs...I kept waiting, was disappointed.
 
2012-06-28 10:45:55 AM

Memoryalpha: As long as Verhoeven isn't allowed anywhere near it, the reboot has got a chance at being decent.


Really? George Lucas? Michael Bay? Jerry Bruckheimer? Tim Burton? Ewe Boll? Tommy Wiseau?

Verhoeven is the only guy we need to worry about?
 
2012-06-28 10:46:42 AM
one of my favorite Heinlein quotes from ST

One girl told him bluntly: "My mother says violence never solves anything."

"So?" Mr. Dubois looked at her bleakly. "I'm sure the city fathers of Carthage would be glad to know that. Why doesn't your mother tell them so? Or why don't you?"

They had tangled before - since you couldn't flunk the course, it wasn't necessary to keep Mr. Dubois buttered up. She said shrilly, "You're making fun of me! Everybody knows that Carthage was destroyed!"

"You seem to be unaware of it," he said grimly. "Since you do know it, wouldn't you say that violence had settled their destinies rather thoroughly? However, I was not making fun of you personally; I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea - a practice I shall always follow. Anybody who clings to the historically untrue - and thoroughly immoral - doctrine that 'violence never solves anything' I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedom."

 
2012-06-28 10:49:47 AM

ha-ha-guy: Cinaed: I think it can be done, and done well. Though I'd halfway prefer a mini-series.

I think you need a mini series to do Starship Troopers well or at least a couple of movies. To cram it into a movie you're cutting out some of the some of the important secondary characters. Depending on which ones/secenes you cut the story will slide out of balance and end up looking really violent, really fascist, or just one other aspect.

I'd think Starship Troopers would really shine if it was given the BSG treatment and done in a planned series. Season 1 can be graduation and training. Season 2 is the first part of Bug War. Season 3 is post OCS Rico and more bug war.

The real achievement in my mind would be mold John Steakley's Armor and Heinlien's Starship troopers together (Armor. Steakley's focus on how violence impacts soldiers would be timely and I enjoyed the depth of Felix. The opening seen in Armor with the asian girl was the one of the few times I've actually had to put a book down, go "God damn" and regain my composure before continuing regarding. Rico's near mechanical devotion to duty and ability to totally ignore the horrors of war is one of the weaker points of Starship Troopers IMHO. All the main characters seemingly internalize the horrors extremely well and the guys who have nervous breakdowns are mostly just mentioned in passing. Rico is the killing machine everyone thinks they are when they make it out of boot, Felix is what you come back as.

/I highly recommend Armor if you haven't read it


hmm. as a high budget tv show, that might be ok..... except people would get tired of bootcamp and the series would probably fail. then again, Walking Dead survives despite the people behind the show trying their best to kill it.
 
2012-06-28 10:50:21 AM

dragonchild: Memoryalpha: As long as Verhoeven isn't allowed anywhere near it, the reboot has got a chance at being decent.

Really? George Lucas? Michael Bay? Jerry Bruckheimer? Tim Burton? Ewe Boll? Tommy Wiseau?

Verhoeven is the only guy we need to worry about?


Dude, don't give me nightmares.
 
2012-06-28 10:55:56 AM

Memoryalpha: Dude, don't give me nightmares.


I dunno, now that I mentioned it I'm kinda curious what Tommy Wiseau would do with it.
 
2012-06-28 10:57:01 AM

dragonchild: Where I cry bullshiat is this tone I sometimes get from military folk (and bleeds through Heinlein's writing) who think military service is the ONLY way to become badass


The bigger sin is is Heinlein acts like military service makes you immune to frailties. Rico has pretty much his entire unit slaughtered on his first drop, he has friends killed later, he burns sentients alive, and all he ends up with are some mild shakes before orbital drops (he still checks clean on the psych tests though). I served (during peace time) in and I don't really like Rico because he sounds like what the brass wishes they could program me to be. Loyal killing machine that gladly kills and dies for esprit de corps. When I read Starship Troopers I always get the vibe there is this oligarch group behind some curtain that did a really good programming of humanity. The result is inhumane, when officers die in combat the lower ranking officers or NCOs fill in perfectly. Everyone obeys the chain command and rarely questions it. To me it doesn't carry fascist overturns, such as at some point it becomes the masturbatory fantasy of a junior grade naval officer. We're just like the ants, just with jumpsuits. Rico and friends were what every butterbar dreams of commanding. Smart, capable, but not so smart they ask too many questions, and willing to die without asking why exactly the asshole in charge keeps getting so many KIAs.

There is also a point though that to beat the bugs you had to become better than them. So you can also consider how when you fight something you also become in some ways. The military becomes more bug like after its first disasters and changes how it reacts. Just like how America was locking the Japanese up in camps and confiscating their land out of fear they'd form a fifth column. Hitler of course locked the Jews up on the grounds they could form a fifth column and do more things like burn the Reichstag down (he blamed that on them).

I think the secret is to get the idea that you become what you fight on some level, while also accepting some of the excesses of Rico come from Heinlein's personal desires. Also Starship Troopers is a single POV from a character who isn't that smart. So it makes sense he wouldn't value the research weenies all that much. The strictures of the military are the only place Rico has only been successful, so it makes sense he worships it at some level.
 
2012-06-28 11:02:17 AM

jchic: tallguywithglasseson: itsdan: It's one of the few scenes I've ever seen with nudity where the predominate theme wasn't "ooooh look, boobs!".

It was for me...

Same here.


True dat.
 
2012-06-28 11:04:06 AM
Screw that shiat, make a movie version of the Forever War, that'd be awesome
 
2012-06-28 11:05:26 AM
Better than Starship Troopers

www.davidforbes.net
 
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