If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Scientists continue to be divided over whether a double amputee would have an "unfair advantage" competing against able-bodied sprinters in the Olympics   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 180
    More: Asinine, International Association of Athletics Federations, Court of Arbitration for Sport, Paralympic Games, Southern Methodist, athleticism, lower leg, Oscar Pistorius, Pretoria  
•       •       •

6495 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jun 2012 at 7:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



180 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-06-27 08:37:47 PM
What's asinine about considering the possibility that body altering equipment may impart an unfair advantage?

Ingoring the debate and considering the devices inferior because they're not made of people would be asinine.
 
2012-06-27 08:41:21 PM

yelmrog: This. People would kill for the chance to customize their kid.


I would kill people for customizing their kids.
 
2012-06-27 08:41:50 PM
Toward the end, but the whole thing is very good. Basically the subject of this thread could be the future of human evolution. The near future.

http://www.ted.com/talks/juan_enriquez_shares_mindboggling_new_scienc e .html
 
2012-06-27 08:44:11 PM
FTA - "The science is fully clear that ... Mr. Pistorius runs considerably faster with his artificial limbs," said Peter Weyand

...and without his artificial limbs he doesn't run very fast at all... more of a crawl really. Good info.
 
2012-06-27 08:44:16 PM

the biggest redneck here: eggrolls: Here come the Super-special Olympics.

Cybernetic sprinters

Weightlifters who eat 'roids like Cheerios

Genetically modified swimmers with gills

Biathalon competitors with shoulder-mounted guns and targeting computers in their brains.

It will be more like composite white blood cells that allow us to sprint full speed for 10 minutes at a time or swim the 400 IM on 3 breaths, and it's MUCH closer to reality than most realize.

/the singularity is near
//we're all gonna be "cyborgs" in 35 years, tops


How does fighting off an infection more efficiently make you able to store more oxygen?
 
2012-06-27 08:44:24 PM
Epicanis:
I would support Team Cyborg USA

Honestly, I'd be pretty interested in seeing "unlimited class" (no enhancements prohibited) athletic competitions - it'd definitely spur on a lot of medical and prosthetic research and development that would probably also be very useful for people with injuries, ailments, and general physical problems (if someone develops a mysostatin inhibitor to promote muscle growth, that might also be useful to combat sarcopenia in the elderly, for example).

/"Go, go, Gadget [bodypart]!"

This would make for an interesting spectacle.

I'd certainly like to see a 50m sprint with no drug testing.
Huuuuuge men exploding out of the blocks and rocketing forwards and then tearing muscles and falling all over the place would definitely be entertaining.

There may be some ethical implications about a system that essentially forced athletes to act as human guinea-pigs in order to stay competitive though :)
 
2012-06-27 08:44:43 PM
Just give him a motorcycle.
 
2012-06-27 08:50:39 PM
Thats why they have the Special Olympics ...

unless you want to demo a new sport that allows people with all of their original meatware to add some hardware and compete... (puts on sunglasses) ... on even footing.
 
2012-06-27 08:51:27 PM
As long as the other runners are allowed to wear carbon fibre elastic rebound devices on the bottoms of their shoes, then yeah, it's all good.
 
2012-06-27 08:51:35 PM
i.ytimg.com

Closer than you think.
 
2012-06-27 08:53:48 PM
The question is whether these particular feet are *compensating* for a limb loss, or he's using the limb loss as a reason to do essentially the same thing that his able-bodied competitors would be doing by showing up in these.

Looks like experts are divided on that question as it applies to his choice of gear, but it seems obvious that specialized sprinting feet *could* easily cross that threshold. I'm not sure it makes sense to even try to rule them in or out on an individual basis, given that the experts' statements in TFA all basically amount to guesswork and handwaving.

I think it is awesome that a guy without feet can easily outrun me, but doing well in a sporting event simply because your competition doesn't have access to the equivalent of your equipment still doesn't seem very sporting.

/with the right selection of feet he could probably do well in a bunch of other events, too, and not just in track and field
 
2012-06-27 08:53:50 PM
It's not just the equipment.

It's the fact that the runner has the advantage of NOT HAVING LEGS full of muscles that cost energy, that must pump blood and oxygen to move them. The prosthetics are lighter, sleeker, more aerodynamic, but most importantly, do not require the nominal upkeep it takes to move them. There is less stress on the heart, lungs, and other body faculties without having to send signals to the feet. This is an incredible advantage.

I say no. Only what you are born with. If guy wants to win, the Paralympics are a month after.
 
2012-06-27 08:59:43 PM

Epicanis: Honestly, I'd be pretty interested in seeing "unlimited class" (no enhancements prohibited) athletic competitions - it'd definitely spur on a lot of medical and prosthetic research and development that would probably also be very useful for people with injuries, ailments, and general physical problems (if someone develops a mysostatin inhibitor to promote muscle growth, that might also be useful to combat sarcopenia in the elderly, for example).


You know why drugs are banned from the Olympics (and technically all sporting competition)? Because they are a detriment to the athlete's health. Winning is important, but not at a deleterious cost to life. If some people are willing to risk/shorten their lives for glory, that forces other athletes who don't want to risk their lives to do also just to stay competitive. It cultivates a culture of death, misery and trauma, where winning at all costs takes precedence over health and well-being. That is the very antithesis of the essence of sport.

People should not be forced to make a choice to modify their bodies just to compete.
 
2012-06-27 09:01:12 PM

dislocated: FTA - "The science is fully clear that ... Mr. Pistorius runs considerably faster with his artificial limbs," said Peter Weyand

...and without his artificial limbs he doesn't run very fast at all... more of a crawl really. Good info.


Weyland is involved in this? PROMETHEUS IS REAL, PEOPLE!
 
2012-06-27 09:05:45 PM

Gdalescrboz: ongbok
Little Tink Tink.


Game Over, we has winner


no no, you mean "POOR Little Tink Tink

">

/hot
 
2012-06-27 09:09:04 PM

Acharne: usernameguy: Scientists continue to be divided over whether a double amputee cyborg with hyper-legs would have an "unfair advantage" competing against able-bodied sprinters in the Olympics.

[www.battlereports.com image 640x376]

"Really now, deep down, I just want to be held at night."


im loading this game up now!
 
2012-06-27 09:09:36 PM
This thread needs more Aimee Mullins.
 
2012-06-27 09:11:18 PM

Rreal: Gdalescrboz: ongbok
Little Tink Tink.


Game Over, we has winner

no no, you mean "POOR Little Tink Tink

">

/hot


Po.
 
2012-06-27 09:13:49 PM
Because it is quite easy to run while one's arms are tucked in tight to one's body.
 
2012-06-27 09:15:54 PM

Rich Cream: Because it is quite easy to run while one's arms are tucked in tight to one's body.


At least glancing at TFA could have saved you looking this foolish
 
2012-06-27 09:18:06 PM

trozman: Here are the facts:
1. These prosthetics are clearly performance-enhancing. They were designed specifically for running and nothing else (e.g. impossible to climb mountains, walk in mud, plenty of other things that generic doctor-prescribed leg prosthetics are able to do).
2. Science was eventually going to reach this point, where a person with a targeted prosthesis could outperform a human in an isolated skill; science will also inevitably surpass this point (but I doubt with this man or this particular set of legs, as he's struggling just to reach qualifying time).
3. As others have pointed out, once you open the floodgates (though I'm sure they'll be closed in no time once people realize how stupid it is), you open the door to all sorts of shenanigans. Runners on stilts. Amputees on bicycles. Most obvious to me is a double-amputee with spring-loaded prostheses for high jumps; no more (or less) of an advantage than this guy.


Heh. You've just given me a flashback to a Judge Dredd comic I read in my youth. Pretty sure he was legislating on the moon, over an athletics event where anything was allowed.

And a second flashback to a Viz top tip:

Olympic athletes. Disguise the fact that you've taken anabolic steroids by running a bit slower. - B. Johnson, Canada


jcasetnl: Then the credibility of the Olympics will be called into question and then they will reluctantly ban it, now that the world has seen proof that the prosthetic creates an unfair advantage.


... the "credibility of the Olympics will be called into question"? The Olympics used to be an exhibition of amateur athletes and sportsmen. The modern Olympics is a giant billboard for McDonalds, Coca-Cola.... just as any other major sporting event is.

Champions' League. Sponsored by Sony and Heineken.

Euro 2012. Brought to you by McDonalds and Hyundai.

People watch the Superbowl for the ads for farks sake.

/Panem et circenses; keeps a population docile.
//More Viz top tips here.
 
2012-06-27 09:18:58 PM
Why is this even a question? Its not asinine, its obvious and the obvious answer is no, you can't race.
 
2012-06-27 09:21:08 PM

ViralMonkey: Rich Cream: Because it is quite easy to run while one's arms are tucked in tight to one's body.

At least glancing at TFA could have saved you looking this foolish



OH NO! MY REPUTATION!

/did not RTFA
//did not read TFThread
///did not even read TFPost
 
2012-06-27 09:21:10 PM

mr smart the great: Acharne: usernameguy: Scientists continue to be divided over whether a double amputee cyborg with hyper-legs would have an "unfair advantage" competing against able-bodied sprinters in the Olympics.

[www.battlereports.com image 640x376]

"Really now, deep down, I just want to be held at night."

im loading this game up now!


And you do right by your name good sir.
 
2012-06-27 09:22:59 PM

Ishkur: It's not just the equipment.

It's the fact that the runner has the advantage of NOT HAVING LEGS full of muscles that cost energy, that must pump blood and oxygen to move them. The prosthetics are lighter, sleeker, more aerodynamic, but most importantly, do not require the nominal upkeep it takes to move them. There is less stress on the heart, lungs, and other body faculties without having to send signals to the feet. This is an incredible advantage.

I say no. Only what you are born with. If guy wants to win, the Paralympics are a month after.


Ding ding! There is already an olympics for these type of people. Having feet, ankles, and legs that never get tired is kind of an advantage.
 
2012-06-27 09:23:07 PM
I don't care. It's a game. Give him rocket shoes and a big dose of PCP. No skin off my back.
 
2012-06-27 09:23:45 PM

dsmith42: the biggest redneck here: eggrolls: Here come the Super-special Olympics.

Cybernetic sprinters

Weightlifters who eat 'roids like Cheerios

Genetically modified swimmers with gills

Biathalon competitors with shoulder-mounted guns and targeting computers in their brains.

It will be more like composite white blood cells that allow us to sprint full speed for 10 minutes at a time or swim the 400 IM on 3 breaths, and it's MUCH closer to reality than most realize.

/the singularity is near
//we're all gonna be "cyborgs" in 35 years, tops

How does fighting off an infection more efficiently make you able to store more oxygen?


**smacks own forehead**

/red
 
2012-06-27 09:25:31 PM

eggrolls: Here come the Super-special Olympics.

Cybernetic sprinters

Weightlifters who eat 'roids like Cheerios


Genetically modified swimmers with gills

Biathalon competitors with shoulder-mounted guns and targeting computers in their brains.


www.unnecessaryumlaut.com
 
2012-06-27 09:25:46 PM

eggrolls: Biathalon competitors with shoulder-mounted guns and targeting computers in their brains.


Yes to this.
 
2012-06-27 09:25:50 PM

Yeah, why not just open Marathon records for RUNNING to these guys:

i.imgur.com


If you are using special prosthetics, it's not the same as running on real legs. It's Apples and Oranges. It's great that a double amputee can perform, but it will always be at a different level than a natural runner.

...that said, I really don't have a problem with athletes 'borging (or 'roiding) it up for our entertainment. Every year it gets harder to stop enhancement cheats in sports, why not run with it?
 
2012-06-27 09:26:26 PM
This is the illuminati's plan, to start with professionals getting augs, next the world so they can take over our brains.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
 
2012-06-27 09:26:50 PM

ViralMonkey: This would make for an interesting spectacle.

I'd certainly like to see a 50m sprint with no drug testing.
Huuuuuge men exploding out of the blocks and rocketing forwards and then tearing muscles and falling all over the place would definitely be entertaining.

There may be some ethical implications about a system that essentially forced athletes to act as human guinea-pigs in order to stay competitive though :)



Like an All-drug Olympics?
 
2012-06-27 09:28:39 PM

jcasetnl: I think if the guy competed, and won, his victory wouldn't be accepted by the majority of the populace. They would say it was due to the prosthetics, and any competent but not quite world class athlete could duplicate the feet given the right hardware.


Well, yeah.
 
2012-06-27 09:34:22 PM
Just another reason for nerds to hate jocks.
 
2012-06-27 09:36:06 PM

Donnchadha: Magorn: Will that answer change when genetics has advanced to the point that we can custom build our offspring?

I think that people (as a whole) will generally eschew the idea of genetically building offspring. The technology will be there, but something about that idea will just be too weird and creepy to really catch on. I'm not saying it will never happen, but I don't see it becoming "normal" or at least generally acceptable anytime in the near future.


You don't think some Asian parents will want to find the straight A gene? Or some one percenter will want the perfect stock picker in the family? If these people are so proud of their prized racing horses, think of how proud they will be to have the fastest child in the world. Just takes some tinkering.
 
2012-06-27 09:36:31 PM

LesserEvil: I really don't have a problem with athletes 'borging (or 'roiding) it up for our entertainment. Every year it gets harder to stop enhancement cheats in sports, why not run with it?


Because as I just explained, they are a detriment to the athlete's health. Winning is important, but not at a deleterious cost to life. If some people are willing to risk/shorten their lives for glory, that forces other athletes who don't want to risk their lives to do also just to stay competitive. It cultivates a culture of death, misery and trauma, where winning at all costs takes precedence over health and well-being. That is the very antithesis of the essence of sport.

People should not be forced to make a choice to damage their bodies just to compete.
 
2012-06-27 09:38:55 PM
Isn't there a type of games for which this person is qualified for? Something like a Special Olympics or something like that.
 
2012-06-27 09:41:36 PM

Epicanis: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Nem Wan: If we have separate men's and women's events then obviously people with these prosthetics should be in a separate class of competition.

There's no logical way to distinguish between this and letting the Six Million Dollar Man compete. Usain Bolt can sprint at perhaps 30MPH. Col. Steve Austin's nuclear-powered bionic legs can sustain 60MPH, so if he existed he'd beat everyone except other bionic people.

I would support Team Cyborg USA

Honestly, I'd be pretty interested in seeing "unlimited class" (no enhancements prohibited) athletic competitions - it'd definitely spur on a lot of medical and prosthetic research and development that would probably also be very useful for people with injuries, ailments, and general physical problems (if someone develops a mysostatin inhibitor to promote muscle growth, that might also be useful to combat sarcopenia in the elderly, for example).

/"Go, go, Gadget [

penis]!"

FTFY. Eff the Olympics, I want a bionic johnson with full sensitivity, variable speed vibration and the ability to adjust length and girth with a single thought.
 
2012-06-27 09:44:11 PM

Daedalus27: Isn't there a type of games for which this person is qualified for? Something like a Special Olympics or something like that.


Sure. But then there's that quote that points out how arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics:
Even if you win you're still retarded.
 
2012-06-27 09:53:25 PM
Although, general cosensus still states that a one-legged actor has a distinct advantage over a no-legged actor for the role of Tarzan.
 
2012-06-27 09:53:53 PM
How many races has he run, and how many has he won, against non-amputees? There is going to have to be a limit on what level of technology can be allowed, but if he has run a bunch of races and hasn't won most of them, then it hasn't been reached yet. The 'science' of whether the lighter artificial legs compensate for potential bad balance and no leg muscles seems to be nothing more than opinion, at least from what was reported in the article. If it really is a huge advantage I would expect near world class times for most of his races. Is this what is happening? It says he has been running races for close to 10 years. What are his times, and how do they compare with other 'normal' Olympic class runners?
 
2012-06-27 09:56:09 PM

xcv: Donnchadha: Magorn: Will that answer change when genetics has advanced to the point that we can custom build our offspring?

I think that people (as a whole) will generally eschew the idea of genetically building offspring. The technology will be there, but something about that idea will just be too weird and creepy to really catch on. I'm not saying it will never happen, but I don't see it becoming "normal" or at least generally acceptable anytime in the near future.

It's going to happen, with a generation of super-boys out of Asia first, Indian parents giving birth to sons with perfect recall, 7' tall Chinese with all sorts of endangered species genes grafted into their DNA to give them an edge on the basketball court and university entrance tests. South Korea might act all, holier than thou Christian ethics and reject the science at first but wait till they see the ability to raise their mouse-click speeds with a few chromosome tweaks. And the Japanese will be outright horrifying as they fully morph into real-life anime characters.

America will have to follow suit out of necessity or we'll never win another spelling bee or video game tournament again and eventually be conquered by mecha piloted by tweens.


Guess I'll post it.
SMBC

/Image too large
 
2012-06-27 09:59:51 PM

mr smart the great: loadin


myspace.roflposters.com

/I consider it every time myself
 
2012-06-27 10:00:42 PM

Ishkur: You know why drugs are banned from the Olympics (and technically all sporting competition)? Because they are a detriment to the athlete's health. Winning is important, but not at a deleterious cost to life. If some people are willing to risk/shorten their lives for glory, that forces other athletes who don't want to risk their lives to do also just to stay competitive. It cultivates a culture of death, misery and trauma, where winning at all costs takes precedence over health and well-being. That is the very antithesis of the essence of sport.

People should not be forced to make a choice to modify their bodies just to compete.


Because all the training they do in all it's absurdity right now (low pressure chambers for the win) has absolutely no negative effect on their bodies. The repetitive stress. The training injuries. Injuries during competitions. The unhealthy diets. Stunted growth and development (gymnastics). Then we get into other fun sports like american football and boxing. Even ballet often, probably always, causes permanent injuries if you do it seriously enough.

Your argument boils down to banning the Olympics and all sports, period.
 
2012-06-27 10:00:45 PM

mr smart the great: Acharne: usernameguy: Scientists continue to be divided over whether a double amputee cyborg with hyper-legs would have an "unfair advantage" competing against able-bodied sprinters in the Olympics.

[www.battlereports.com image 640x376]

"Really now, deep down, I just want to be held at night."

im loading this game up now!


Wow I suck at quoting sometimes
 
2012-06-27 10:05:01 PM

Steve Zodiac: How many races has he run, and how many has he won, against non-amputees? There is going to have to be a limit on what level of technology can be allowed, but if he has run a bunch of races and hasn't won most of them, then it hasn't been reached yet. The 'science' of whether the lighter artificial legs compensate for potential bad balance and no leg muscles seems to be nothing more than opinion, at least from what was reported in the article. If it really is a huge advantage I would expect near world class times for most of his races. Is this what is happening? It says he has been running races for close to 10 years. What are his times, and how do they compare with other 'normal' Olympic class runners?


How fast he's actually running shouldn't be relevant.
What's important is: Is he using equipment which imparts a mechanical advantage over other athletes who don't have the equipment?

The question hasn't mattered in the past because limb replacement equipment was obviously inferior to normal limbs. It does matter now because, even if this current equipment is borderline, the next generation of equipment may well be easily superior.

Are you going to allow this equipment just because this one man isn't beating everyone at the moment?
What happens when the next guy comes along and is faster than all able bodies athletes while using it? what happens when the next gen of equipment is released?

What they need is a blanket rule.
And the only blanket rule that makes sense is: no bionic limb enhancements.
You can't make exceptions just because it'd be nice to let the guy with no legs run
 
2012-06-27 10:05:48 PM

debug: Ishkur: It's not just the equipment.

It's the fact that the runner has the advantage of NOT HAVING LEGS full of muscles that cost energy, that must pump blood and oxygen to move them. The prosthetics are lighter, sleeker, more aerodynamic, but most importantly, do not require the nominal upkeep it takes to move them. There is less stress on the heart, lungs, and other body faculties without having to send signals to the feet. This is an incredible advantage.

I say no. Only what you are born with. If guy wants to win, the Paralympics are a month after.

Ding ding! There is already an olympics for these type of people. Having feet, ankles, and legs that never get tired is kind of an advantage.


It's about recognition for their accomplishments. He can be the best sprinter in the world, but that's not going to mean a thing because (At least in this country) nobody watches the paralympics. Heck, most people either don't know about it or confuse it with the "Special Olympics."
 
2012-06-27 10:07:06 PM
Where the hell are the pictures of Khan?!?
 
2012-06-27 10:12:44 PM

Rakishi: Because all the training they do in all it's absurdity right now (low pressure chambers for the win) has absolutely no negative effect on their bodies. The repetitive stress. The training injuries. Injuries during competitions. The unhealthy diets. Stunted growth and development (gymnastics). Then we get into other fun sports like american football and boxing. Even ballet often, probably always, causes permanent injuries if you do it seriously enough


Exactly. Sports at the top echelon are dangerous enough, let's not damage them further by permitting rampant drug use.

I don't want athletes hiked up on meth, coke, vocodin, ephedrine, a shot of espresso and two shots of whisky going into cardiac arrest on the track.
 
2012-06-27 10:15:58 PM
My thoughts have been echoed here already I think, but for lack of anything better to do I'll vomit them on you.

I'm not so much concerned with the current level of prosthesis these guys are rocking, but it very quickly becomes a slippery slope where the mechanical beats the flesh. Even if you limit the technology somehow, these devices are still subject to engineering and manufacturing techniques which a similar competitor cannot achieve without removing his own limbs, something detrimental to his health (also the nominal reason performance enhancing drugs are no-fly).

Others have mentioned, these are strap on limbs; they always perform at peak capacity and can be battered, abused, and completely destroyed with abandon then simply replaced in an instant; flesh can only be pushed so far, so hard, and when it is destroyed, it's done.

If people get over the squeamish fear of seeing people with missing limbs, the paralympics will become a much more interesting game to watch in the future, but only if the money is there.

Flesh and blood simply can't compete with mechanics and engineering; we don't ride horses anymore for a reason.
 
Displayed 50 of 180 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report