my god my brain chemistry has changed.

going out to eat every night. new threads. staying up til 4 drinking in Jersey. disposable income. I couldn't give less of a sh*t.

They serve no useful purpose. Harvest them all for their organs.

30, married, two children (2 y/old son and 6 month old daughter), in the planning stages of building a house.

I play video games, I watch cartoons, and I love to goof off.

Just now I get to goof off with chainsaws, acetylene torches, power saws, and other dangerous implements.

/just because you get old, doesn't mean you have to stop playing with toys, it just means that you can play with a bigger variety of them
//love my children, they are the best thing in the world

kisseswookies: Don't own a house, because renting is convenient.

I don't own a house because rent yields here are very low. But apparently I should forgo the cash-flow analysis and tie up huge amounts of capital in a house, so I can become more "adult".

/ My grandmother tells me this literally every time I talk to her
// She recently sold her house to free up capital

My husband and I haven't had children, but we keep trying!

(hint: check user name, and a big thank you to Gov. Cuomo)

lamecomedian: Step 1: Spend extravagantly without saving for the future.
Step 2: Retire w/ little to no assets or savings
Step 3: Wish that you had some family to move in with now that you're old, sick, and broke.
Step 4: Watch social security fall apart because your (and successive) generation(s) did not add to the rising general population whose wages constitute the program.
Step 5: Blame your parents.

But srsly:
Not trying to get down on people who are waiting until the appropriate time to have kids (my wife and I put it off for about five years), but the world kinda needs... well, people. Nor do I have any beef with people who live responsibly, never have children, and plan for their future retirement. The kind of people described in TFA, however, deliberately (and from the tone of the author, GLEEFULLY) are living without the slightest foresight or sense of responsibility, and while there's no problem with that now, in another 20-30 years things are not going to look so rosy. And in all honesty, the thought of my kid becoming an adult and having to pick up the slack for an earlier generation that couldn't behave like grown-ups kind of ticks me off. But then, I live across the pond, so I'm probably just being a curmudgeon.

I might go so far as to say that having children and raising them to be good citizens (note that the two are linked) is a form of civic service - not that everyone needs to fulfill their obligation to their community in that SPECIFIC way, but somebody has to do it. A lot of "somebodies," actually.

I couldn't disagree more. I see what you're saying on paper, but to me, there's something borderline psychopathic about saying "I'm going to have a bunch of kids so that I can sponge off them when I get older." Bad enough that it's been that way for the past 3-4 generations, I see no need to perpetuate that trend now that my generation is the one caught in the gears. For all the talk about how my generation is spoiled, entitled, or other things that mean "you aren't waiting on your betters elders on bended knee," at least we're not recruiting new rubes into the pyramid scheme.

If you feel like you have to defend your maturity, you still have quite a ways to go

FloydA: I do not want children. I have never wanted children. I never will want children. I do not like children. I am not going to change my mind, no matter how many people tell me I will.

I have, in the past, uttered those same words; and now I would take a bullet for my daughter.

I just said it can be good. Not everybody wants kids and that's cool.

busy chillin': my god my brain chemistry has changed.

going out to eat every night. new threads. staying up til 4 drinking in Jersey. disposable income. I couldn't give less of a sh*t.

It sounds like you're too busy chillin'.

Burr: /just because you get old, doesn't mean you have to stop playing with toys, it just means that you can play with a bigger variety of them

I've had the whole "when I became a man, I put away childish things" quoted to me more than once. All it does is irritate me.

I have a cousin who got married and had kids mainly because she felt it was time. It was what all her friends were doing at the time, etc. Now she has a 1,000 yard stare that screams, "How did I end up trapped in this life?" Her husband is pretty controlling and they're always on a tightrope financially...probably a couple paychecks away from relative disaster. It sucks. On paper, she was WAY more of an "adult" at 35 than I am...kids, house, etc. On the flipside, I rent (rent control apartment in DC? You can pry this place from my cold, dead hands), no kids, not married, travel for silly sports tournaments, etc. BUT...I've got money in the bank, a job I really enjoy, tons of friends and stuff to do, and oh yeah...I'm happy. No 1,000 yard stare. I will take my version of "adult" any day.

I do take issue with the author's tone regarding saving for the future. The author may look back on her years of perpetual adolescence a little differently once her friends are hitting 65 and have no money saved. My Mom has a handful of friends in that scenario and it is BLEAK. Being totally ridiculous but still being financially responsible is where it's at.

I realize I still do dumb shiat that an adult should never think or do.

For instance, I was walking along with some coworkers the other day to a place in the city for some lunch. Here we are: young men in their 20's, all well educated, great careers, all healthy, suited-up and all generally take care of our looks.

And while walking along I zone out and start touching everything within arms reach (I like to touch things). And then begin thinking about myself as a War General back in the days of the Roman Legions, and what my armor would look like and how I would position my troops, and .... BAM! ... then snap back into reality when someone asks me a question.

I know I should act or think that way. That's how I know I'm no where near ready for the responsibility of raising a child. I still act and think like a child myself!

These tend to be intelligent, reasonable people. The problem is, intelligent, reasonable people are having less and less kids, while stupid people keep on keepin' on.

32, single, childless, just recently got a decent job (that lasts for 14 weeks). It's hard to put money away when you spend you entire 20s in grad school, and it's hard it's hard to pick that special girl out of a parade or clingy whiners and psychopaths (although I finally found someone awesome...and it looks like my career path may pull us apart). I have no desire for children (although if that's your thing, I applaud you for producing the people who will be paying into the health care system when I'm old), and if I ever buy a domicile rather than renting, it'll probably be a condo because I hate mowing. That said, right now I'm renting a tiny one-bedroom house (I think it used to be someone's vacation cottage in the 40s) with no grass, and it's pretty awesome. Either way, a giant 3-bedroom house with a massive yard is way more than I'll need.

There's an argument to be made for owning over renting: you have to spend money on living space. That money may as well go towards something you'll own one day, rather than lining a landlord's pocket. The trick is to buy intelligently (and of course, be prescient enough to not get completely farked when a bunch of rich bastids make decisions you have no control over and tank the market).

Last Man on Earth:

I couldn't disagree more. I see what you're saying on paper, but to me, there's something borderline psychopathic about saying "I'm going to have a bunch of kids so that I can sponge off them when I get older." Bad enough that it's been that way for the past 3-4 generations, I see no need to perpetuate that trend now that my generation is the one caught in the gears. For all the talk about how my generation is spoiled, entitled, or other ...

When you put it that way it does sound pretty creepy, I'll admit. And I'm not suggesting that as the sole or primary reason for having kids, but our society is currently structured around the assumption that young have (at least some) responsibility to the elderly, and that it would be cruel or inhumane to leave the old codgers to their own devices once they're past working age (as I recall, Bismarck actually got Germany's Soc. Sec. program started to make way in the workforce for the younger population - with the assurance of some kind of retirement benefits, older citizens could retire and free up jobs for the next generation).

/I'll just leave the "pyramid scheme" bit alone, I think.

Ow! That was my feelings!: One of the most mature decisions I've ever made was passing on marriage and babies when it was the "thing to do" among my friends and family. Still surprises me the hostility and negativity I get from some friends and family for not "doing what I'm suppose too".

//yeah, got some very conservative folks among my family and friends.

This explains why even the most religious of conservatives barely get mad when their little snowflakes gets knocked up or knocks up a girlfriend, no matter how young they are. It's just a sign to them that at least their hetero and procreating as according to God's plan. If they get hitched, even better. Scary ass thinking isn't it?

H31N0US: FloydA: I do not want children. I have never wanted children. I never will want children. I do not like children. I am not going to change my mind, no matter how many people tell me I will.

I have, in the past, uttered those same words; and now I would take a bullet for my daughter.

I just said it can be good. Not everybody wants kids and that's cool.

Mom, I see through your ploy

I have 2/3 and if having kids makes me an adult, I hope that I never become an adult.

Actually, why would anyone want to be an adult? I don't even know what that's supposed to mean to some people.

I think as long as you are able to pay your bills and take care of yourself, you're pretty much an adult. I don't see why kids, marriage, or a house would be requirements for that. Theoretically I see how they might make people more responsible, but in reality that is not always the case.

On a related note:

Now that I've done the responsible parent thing, and after the kid gets older, a vasectomy and a trip to London (for me, not the kid) sounds like a good idea?

Buffet: Rembrant_Q_Einstein: Buffet: Getting married is for old, bald, fat dudes who can't get laid. Having babies is for old losers who have no life and don't want one.

Now you tell me!!!

Fear not. It's never too late. Dump the brats and the ball and chain and hit the gym. If you drive a four door car, sell it and get a two door, high performance real one. Trash your Ward Cleaver wardrobe and get some cool threads. Hit the town running. Ta-da!

Great advice! Should I "manscape" as well?

MoronLessOff

busy chillin': my god my brain chemistry has changed.

going out to eat every night. new threads. staying up til 4 drinking in Jersey. disposable income. I couldn't give less of a sh*t.

It sounds like you're too busy chillin'.


ha...that is how my name came about...back in the days before kids my friend was out with his girlfriend and I knew I would be third wheel for a drink so I was late. He asked me why...I said I was busy chillin'.

but now I am busy raising two kids. I guess it is not for everyone, but I love it. And kids keep you young. I guess I am adult but I play with legos almost every night. Built a castle with my daughter last week.

FloydA: H31N0US:
But later in life, say mid 30's, family life can be a very enriching experience. Watching your kid learn and grow is hard to describe. It's not all rainbows and unicorns but it's not all puke and noise either. Also, you have more money at that time and in a better position to defend your savings against the burdens of child rearing.


I do not want children. I have never wanted children. I never will want children. I do not like children. I am not going to change my mind, no matter how many people tell me I will.

I understand that some people actually like children, but I do not.

Why is this so difficult a concept for some people to grasp?

I'm with you on that. I've heard SO many people tell me that I have no idea how I actually feel about children, and I'll change my mind when I'm "older". I'm 23 now and I hate kids more than ever.

I actually feel lucky that I'm smart enough to realize that I would be a very shiatty mom. I had no female role model myself growing up so I have no concept of what a "good mom" really is. I have zero patience, and being around any children at all makes me irrationally angry. But I have a wonderful man and a great life. WITHOUT kids.

SueDisco: Being totally ridiculous but still being financially responsible is where it's at.

Seriously, it sounds like you've really got it going for you. +1 just for that.

Also, +1 to everyone who's happy with where they're at. It's been said, but different strokes for different folks.

FloydA:

Do you actually believe that the world is at risk of running out of people?

I'm concerned that we're going to start running short of young, healthy people who can take care of all the old folks.

Places like Germany are already in a bit of a bind, demographically. America and Canada are better off because we have such large immigrant populations to offset declining fertility rates.

TomD9938       2012-06-27 03:17:52 PM
(favorite)
More and more Londoners are childless.

Allah rejoices.


It's always so disappointing when someone I had favorited turns out to be a racist after all.

lamecomedian: Step 1: Spend extravagantly without saving for the future.
Step 2: Retire w/ little to no assets or savings
Step 3: Wish that you had some family to move in with now that you're old, sick, and broke.
Step 4: Watch social security fall apart because your (and successive) generation(s) did not add to the rising general population whose wages constitute the program.
Step 5: Blame your parents.

But srsly:
Not trying to get down on people who are waiting until the appropriate time to have kids (my wife and I put it off for about five years), but the world kinda needs... well, people. Nor do I have any beef with people who live responsibly, never have children, and plan for their future retirement. The kind of people described in TFA, however, deliberately (and from the tone of the author, GLEEFULLY) are living without the slightest foresight or sense of responsibility, and while there's no problem with that now, in another 20-30 years things are not going to look so rosy. And in all honesty, the thought of my kid becoming an adult and having to pick up the slack for an earlier generation that couldn't behave like grown-ups kind of ticks me off. But then, I live across the pond, so I'm probably just being a curmudgeon.

I might go so far as to say that having children and raising them to be good citizens (note that the two are linked) is a form of civic service - not that everyone needs to fulfill their obligation to their community in that SPECIFIC way, but somebody has to do it. A lot of "somebodies," actually.


Obviously you haven't lived on your own for awhile.

Do you have any idea how easy it is to take care of JUST yourself? I haven't even looked at my checking account in a few months because I know there is more money in it then I spend, on top of the savings to 401(k) and Roth IRA that come out every paycheck. And lets not forget that as a single, health male I get the BEST health insurance and preventative care imaginable for the cheapest price.

If it makes you feel better, I volunteer for Big Brothers and Big Sisters (I have a "little brother" named Jerome that I meet up with every other week or sometimes weekly if there is an event). But the last thing this world needs is MORE people. There are over 6 BILLION of us already.

RexTalionis: Hey, single Peter Pan generation Fark ladies. Who wants to procreate with me? I'm employed, well educated and reasonably presentable in dim lighting. I have prophesized my demise and I must procreate for I require a vessel of my own issue as the instrument of my resurrection.

Well, next time I'm bored that's going up on Match.com.

+1, sir. +1...

GAT_00: what_now: I'm two and a half of those things, and quite happy with my life.

Half-broke, half-single or able to half-fly? This is important because if you can half fly we need to meet.

What a half-fly might look like:

I love the thought "other people's children annoy me, so I can't be a parent"

Yeah, I have two kids, people say I am a wonderful father, but I still get annoyed with other people's children. Why? Because they aren't mine. I can discipline mine, I can't discipline other peoples.

Also, you don't need to have had good parents yourself to be a good parent. My wife says her mom wasn't a good mother, but my wife is a wonderful mother. You are not your parents.

FloydA: H31N0US:
But later in life, say mid 30's, family life can be a very enriching experience. Watching your kid learn and grow is hard to describe. It's not all rainbows and unicorns but it's not all puke and noise either. Also, you have more money at that time and in a better position to defend your savings against the burdens of child rearing.


I do not want children. I have never wanted children. I never will want children. I do not like children. I am not going to change my mind, no matter how many people tell me I will.

I understand that some people actually like children, but I do not.

Why is this so difficult a concept for some people to grasp?

The hell if i know. I have friends who keep telling me I'll change my mind. Why?

reklamfox: FloydA: H31N0US:
But later in life, say mid 30's, family life can be a very enriching experience. Watching your kid learn and grow is hard to describe. It's not all rainbows and unicorns but it's not all puke and noise either. Also, you have more money at that time and in a better position to defend your savings against the burdens of child rearing.


I do not want children. I have never wanted children. I never will want children. I do not like children. I am not going to change my mind, no matter how many people tell me I will.

I understand that some people actually like children, but I do not.

Why is this so difficult a concept for some people to grasp?

I'm with you on that. I've heard SO many people tell me that I have no idea how I actually feel about children, and I'll change my mind when I'm "older". I'm 23 now and I hate kids more than ever.

I actually feel lucky that I'm smart enough to realize that I would be a very shiatty mom. I had no female role model myself growing up so I have no concept of what a "good mom" really is. I have zero patience, and being around any children at all makes me irrationally angry. But I have a wonderful man and a great life. WITHOUT kids.

I'm in exactly the same boat. 23, no kids, and even if I wanted them, I know myself well enough to know I would be a terrible father. My personality just isn't geared for it.

H31n0us, I've heard the thing about how people's minds change once they have kids, and I've seen it myself so much that I'm fairly sure people's brain chemistry physically changes during pregnancy/childbirth, but it isn't a universal, and I just don't see the need to give up my current sense of happiness on the mere chance that I might change my mind. If it didn't happen as advertised, it would be a bad move for all involved, parent and child alike. You and others take great joy in raising kids, and I respect that, but it just isn't something that suits me, either psychologically or motivationally.

reklamfox
I have zero patience, and being around any children at all makes me irrationally angry.

I've tried interacting with kids. It's nigh-well impossible. They've got the attention span of a gnat, their thought processes can be modeled using Brownian motion, and the don't understand a word you say to them. Most of my communication takes the form of snark and sarcasm, and it flies right over their heads.

I did a chemistry magic show once for a bunch of 5-year-olds. Never again. I simply don't relate well to anyone who's younger than about 15. I did a lot of high school tutoring and manage to develop a rapport with the keeners who wanted extra help, but anyone younger I just couldn't get along with.

lamecomedian: I'm concerned that we're going to start running short of young, healthy people who can take care of all the old folks.

Places like Germany are already in a bit of a bind, demographically. America and Canada are better off because we have such large immigrant populations to offset declining fertility rates.


I hear doomsayers about how narcissistic Americans are and Ive always just waved my hand and said there are good people out there but I have come to realize that it is not the abnormal anymore. The only bright side is that it is a self correcting life philosophy ie you farkers die and all you are die with you since you are too full of yourselves and your cats to create a new generation. It is unfortunate you farkers are becoming the norm and society will fall apart because of it. You have done such a good job selling the bullcrap you sell yourselves to justify your lives that more and more are buying it. Europeans have bought it whole cloth. Fertility rates are actually starting to make the powers that be nervous. There are smart people out there that can see where this road leads. So congratulations you are winning. Values such as sacrifice and child rearing are being thrown to the side in the interest of selfish lives lived 100% for yourself. Good for you and it sucks to be the ones that will have to pay the price for it. Sucks to be them I guess eh? Farkers

FloydA:

Easily solved. There are a lot of people who want to immigrate to the US from Mexico, Central and South America, Africa, and Asia. Make it easy for them to do so legally and make it easy for them to become citizens who earn reasonable wages and pay into Social Security, and we'll have no problem.


Bad: If they became citizens, then they'd be able to take Social Security benefits out.

Good: If they pay SS under a fraudulent number, they won't be able to make a claim for benefits, later.

FloydA: H31N0US:
I have, in the past, uttered those same words; and now I would take a bullet for my daughter.



Look, I am flat out telling you that you are wrong about me. I will not ever change my mind about this. Period. No, that does not mean I am not an adult. No that does not mean I'm going through a phase. No that does not mean whatever you think it means.

I do not like children.

Why can't you accept that?

I get it, you love your little bundle of joy. That's fine, that's wonderful, I'm sure he, she, or it is the most preciousest widdle snowfwake sparkle in god's eye. That's lovely, I'm happy for you. But parenthood is not for me, and no amount of cajoling, pressure, or this sort of condescending "oh I used to think like that too..." bullshiat is going to change that fact. So just lay off, ok? Jeez.

I'm not a big fan of having kids either, but are you trying to convince him or yourself? Kinda... defensive there.

HellRaisingHoosier:


Obviously you haven't lived on your own for awhile.

Do you have any idea how easy it is to take care of JUST yourself? I haven't even looked at my checking account in a few months because I know there is more money in it then I spend, on top of the savings to 401(k) and Roth IRA that come out every paycheck. And lets not forget that as a single, health male I get the BEST health insurance and preventative care imaginable for the cheapest p ...

It is easy to live on your own and take care of yourself... when you have your youth, health, and a lucrative job. Most senior citizens (in America, anyway) have none of those things (well, I guess by definition NONE of them have their youth, but you get what I mean).

I'm glad things are going so well for you, and clearly you're wise enough to save for the future. And you give back to the community - great! But the people in TFA seem to lack (or deliberately choose not to exercise) the good judgment and philanthropy that you demonstrate - it is at them specifically that I am directing my criticism (which perhaps I did not make clear).

A generation that does not save AND does not have children is setting itself up for problems in the future, because when they're too old and sick to take care of themselves, they won't have any resources to fall back upon or taxpayers to foot their medical bills and pensions.

SueDisco: I have a cousin who got married and had kids mainly because she felt it was time. It was what all her friends were doing at the time, etc. Now she has a 1,000 yard stare that screams, "How did I end up trapped in this life?" Her husband is pretty controlling and they're always on a tightrope financially...probably a couple paychecks away from relative disaster. It sucks. On paper, she was WAY more of an "adult" at 35 than I am...kids, house, etc. On the flipside, I rent (rent control apartment in DC? You can pry this place from my cold, dead hands), no kids, not married, travel for silly sports tournaments, etc. BUT...I've got money in the bank, a job I really enjoy, tons of friends and stuff to do, and oh yeah...I'm happy. No 1,000 yard stare. I will take my version of "adult" any day.

I do take issue with the author's tone regarding saving for the future. The author may look back on her years of perpetual adolescence a little differently once her friends are hitting 65 and have no money saved. My Mom has a handful of friends in that scenario and it is BLEAK. Being totally ridiculous but still being financially responsible is where it's at.

Rent control you say in DC? hmmmmm whats the address?

/Gets the gun


I dont think I can live in DC again. Stayed with a GF for a while she lived down the street from the fire dept. Drove me nuts. I do like living outside DC now. Worst thing that happend to me was my car got egged.

You know who else was baby-free ?