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(CBS News)   CBS News report says Stockton, California will be the largest city ever to file for bankrupcy. In other news, CBS believes that Stockton is larger than Cleveland, Ohio   (cbsnews.com) divider line 27
    More: Fail, U.S., Central Falls, economists, bankruptcy  
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3519 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jun 2012 at 11:33 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-27 12:20:26 PM
4 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: brobdiggy: age 56

monthly pension

I think I can see why Stockton (and California) is having financial troubles here.

All these public union people think they deserve everything without paying for it.

People think Scott Walker was the devil. In a nutshell, he basically said "If you want big benefits and pensions, pay a little more out of your own pocket for them." The liberal Democrat response was "OMFG YOU HATE WORKING PEOPLE!"

This is what happens when liberal "let the government pay for everything instead of me" politicians keep getting elected. The budget can't keep up with their unsustainable promises.

1/10...weak sauce.


It's sad that you think that's a troll.

It's been pretty clear that many liberals have struggled politically and economically with the concept of the long-term sustainability of their spending. The huge pensions, benefits, and "I'll take care of you" promises are starting to bite them in the ass now. It's a mindset that put many of these locales in their current position.

"I want it, but don't want to pay for it". Well, someone has to pay for it, and now everyone's out of money because of the unsustainable spending.
2012-06-27 11:59:29 AM
4 votes:
age 56

monthly pension


I think I can see why Stockton (and California) is having financial troubles here.

All these public union people think they deserve everything without paying for it.

People think Scott Walker was the devil. In a nutshell, he basically said "If you want big benefits and pensions, pay a little more out of your own pocket for them." The liberal Democrat response was "OMFG YOU HATE WORKING PEOPLE!"

This is what happens when liberal "let the government pay for everything instead of me" politicians keep getting elected. The budget can't keep up with their unsustainable promises.
2012-06-27 11:53:20 AM
3 votes:
Stockton, Calif. could become the largest American city ever to file for bankruptcy on Wednesday.

Subby, Cleveland filed on a Thursday.

/reading comprehension - what is it?
2012-06-27 01:27:53 PM
2 votes:

Rev.K: Stockton had a pretty significant population increase between 2000 and 2010, almost 20% or 250,000 to a little over 290,000 persons.

- 80% of Stockton's $196 million budget is spent on Fire and Police. HOLY EFFING SH*T!


I think -- and I might be wrong -- that Stockton had the same problems as cities like Antioch. Massive amounts of Section 8 and other super-low-income housing was thrown up in those years, and with "those people" came lots of crime, drugs, etc. And with super-low-income people comes much lower per capita property and sales tax payments.

Also, Stockton was pretty cheap to buy property in, and is "only" 70-80 miles from Santa Clara, Oakland, San Jose, and SF...so looooooots of people living there are longer-haul commuters. So some of their money goes somewhere else.
2012-06-27 12:06:56 PM
2 votes:
From CNN of all places:
Link

California should look to Wisconsin. Gov. Scott Walker closed a large budget hole without raising taxes or cutting education but by going straight to one of the roots of the problem -- public employee unions. Last summer, Walker required union members to contribute 5.8% of their pay toward pensions and 12.6% of their health insurance premiums, while also reforming collective bargaining agreements for government workers.

At first glance, Walker's reforms appeared to be political suicide. But as the returns come in, and schools aren't closing, draconian cuts aren't being made and taxes aren't getting higher. Walker's success leaves his opponents with little ammunition.

Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, Walker's Democratic opponent in the June recall election, hardly mentions Walker's union reforms anymore. With Walker opening a lead in recent polls, top Wisconsin Democrats are angry that the Democratic National Committee is unwilling to invest heavily to recall him.

Wisconsin recently reported that property tax bills for the median homes fell by 0.4% in 2011, the first drop in more 13 years.

In January, Baldwin-Woodville School District reported a $100,000 budget surplus thanks to Walker's reforms. And in Kaukauna School District, school officials say the pension and health care reforms will transform their $400,000 budget deficit into a $1.5 million surplus
.
2012-06-27 11:57:36 AM
2 votes:
Without looking, I'm betting Stockton is run by Democrats. Just like Detroit, Harrisburg, Cleveland, Camden, etc.
2012-06-27 11:57:21 AM
2 votes:

socalnewwaver: Gentoolive: Califonia deserves everything that happens to it..

sadly, i can't disagree with you. between the corrupt democratic legislature, the incompetent voters (high speed rail? are you kidding me?), and the gerrymandered districts, we have to be the worst run state in the nation.


Y'all obviously have never spent anytime in Illinois. California is bad, but it's a statewide sport in Illinois.
2012-06-27 11:56:13 AM
2 votes:
Check out CA's projected pension shortfalls.

Liberals, they know economics!
2012-06-27 11:54:40 AM
2 votes:

Gentoolive: Califonia deserves everything that happens to it..


sadly, i can't disagree with you. between the corrupt democratic legislature, the incompetent voters (high speed rail? are you kidding me?), and the gerrymandered districts, we have to be the worst run state in the nation.
2012-06-27 11:50:52 AM
2 votes:
Califonia deserves everything that happens to it..
2012-06-28 02:51:28 AM
1 votes:
I've lived in San Francisco for 17 years, and yes, California does deserve everything that's coming to it. While everyone points partisan fingers and assigns blame, it's more likely to revert to being the 32nd Mexican state...not that I think it should or fear it will, it just seems a likely scenario. As far as I can see, apart from the Chinese, Latinos are the only ones who have any sort of recognizable family structure, work ethic, simple domestic peace and stability that is prerequisite for any civil society to continue to exist.

The rest are drifters: spoiled rich kids from elsewhere, deluded Gold Rush tech bubble ignoramii who think their "skills" won't soon be made obsolete, that the next little coders and marketing whores won't be raised up and ready to price them out of their studio apartments. And that they won't be selling shiat online to Americans. On the other side of the coin is generational Welfare poverty, the HUD section 8 baby-daddy rejects, gangbangers, dealers and addicts. Let's not forget the navel-gazers, bliss ninnies, foodies, winos, hobbyists, and snobs of all varieties. And of course those who think their sexual preference, confused gender identity, and/or their victimization for being a member of Maligned Group X makes their life so much more precious and real than who are too busy working for a living. Finally, we can't forget the Poverty Pimps, "blessed are the poor, for they will always be with us, and you will always have a job": the social workers, the do-gooders, the victims, and their sponsors. So it's those folks, and the farking Gettys and their ilk, who throw a Gala for all the little people in the Tenderloin and get to feel good about themselves. Because they care, you know.

I'm so utterly through with it I don't care if it shakes and burns to the ground while I'm still here. Because I, too, fit into at least one of the groups I listed above--I am part of the problem and have it coming just as much as any other lazy farker who moved here from the sticks with some hippie notion of rockstardom or reinventing themselves in magic happyland noodling their soul. You were lied to. Go home.

I hope whatever apocalypse which comes takes every useless pencil pusher retiring at age 55 in Sacramento with it.

It rightfully should become a satellite of the PRC and the whole lot should be handled the way Mao would've done it, with a mass grave.

Flush it, it's done.
2012-06-27 11:58:04 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: "Retired police department employee Geri Ridge said she fears not being able to afford health-care insurance.

I don't have that kind of income," said Ridge, 56, noting she is concerned a large share of her $1,895 monthly pension payment could be consumed by large insurance costs due to her history of heart attacks."

Well, she's too young for Medicare, so she could take advantage of the subsidized plans that will be made available via HCR....oh wait, I forgot, that would be communist or something.

Never mind - just let her put off care until she's in dire need, then the taxpayers can foot the bill that she won't be able to pay. That's much more American.


Or tell her to get a job like the rest of us that work in the private sector, that don't trade campaign contributions to the people that vote for exorbitant salaries, pensions and benefits.
2012-06-27 05:43:27 PM
1 votes:
Approves
ts1.mm.bing.net
2012-06-27 02:12:05 PM
1 votes:

chick-freak-a: , or the new casino.


I'm getting concerned that my friends back in my hometown of Cleveland aren't quite grasping the point of a casino.. Its supposed to pull in outsider and take THEIR money, not the money of the natives... People who live in Vegas know enough not to spend time in casinos unless its part of their job to somehow take money from outsiders...

I'm hoping once the novelty of having a casino wears off, Clevelanders stay out of their casino.
2012-06-27 01:16:37 PM
1 votes:
Ok, I found a presentation on Stockton's website that is from 2011 that details some of their budget woes. A few thoughts from this fellow municipal budget staffer.

- On their revenue side, property taxes only account for 17% of Stockton's general revenues, with utility taxes and sales taxes being higher.

- On top of that, Stockton had a pretty significant population increase between 2000 and 2010, almost 20% or 250,000 to a little over 290,000 persons.

- Stockton started seeing a sharp decline in their revenues in 2009, which would have coincided with the fall out of the subprime mortgage crisis, so no real surprise there. Their 2011 projection (whenever it was made) was that revenues would begin to level out. Perhaps that didn't happen.


So on the revenue side, I'm a little puzzled about this picture. Assuming there hasn't been a huge decline in population, their revenue makeup shows that the decline in property valuations shouldn't hurt their bottom line too much in terms of property tax receipts, which are after all only 17% of their total revenue.

The key factor here is obviously the high unemployment, which cut into sales taxes revenues and likely utility revenues as well. A 20% unemployment rate is a pretty f*cking scary thing.


On their expenditure side, 80% of Stockton's $196 million budget is spent on Fire and Police.

HOLY EFFING SH*T!

That's a pretty insane amount of money for two functions of a municipality. I assume that factored into those costs are the benefit and retirement amounts that are allocated to Police and Fire staff, and if that is indeed the driving factor behind the super inflation of those two budgets, there's no doubt that it is absolutely out of control.

To put it in perspective, where I live, Calgary, has a $2.8 billion budget for 2012. Calgary Police Service receives approximately $301 million of that budget, a mere 11%, compared to Stockton's 50%. Staggering.

Their labor to non-labor ratio on their general fund budget is 81% labor and 19% non-labor. That's definitely on the high side, but every municipality spends the majority of their operating budget on labor.

The proposal (in 2011) was to reduce staff at the City of Stockton by 41% in three years. That's a massive number and would likely result in extremely significant reductions to service. I can't comprehend layoffs of that magnitude.


All in all, wow, that's f*cked.

For anyone interested, the presentation is here.

Link
2012-06-27 12:25:43 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: "Retired police department employee Geri Ridge said she fears not being able to afford health-care insurance.

I don't have that kind of income," said Ridge, 56, noting she is concerned a large share of her $1,895 monthly pension payment could be consumed by large insurance costs due to her history of heart attacks."

Well, she's too young for Medicare, so she could take advantage of the subsidized plans that will be made available via HCR....oh wait, I forgot, that would be communist or something.

Never mind - just let her put off care until she's in dire need, then the taxpayers can foot the bill that she won't be able to pay. That's much more American.


Or the biatch could go back to work like the rest of us instead of sitting on her ass and complaining. Retired at 56 on the public dime? Not anymore.
2012-06-27 12:15:34 PM
1 votes:
Born & raised in Stockton, CA. It's only June and we already have 32 homicides this year, and now this news. fark Stockton. The dominoes are starting to topple in America, Stockton is just the beginning.
2012-06-27 12:15:26 PM
1 votes:

socalnewwaver: Gentoolive: Califonia deserves everything that happens to it..

sadly, i can't disagree with you. between the corrupt democratic legislature, the incompetent voters (high speed rail? are you kidding me?), and the gerrymandered districts, we have to be the worst run state in the nation.


If you like Robert Heinlein (even a little bit), read Friday just for his description of California of the future. I love it here, but the politics drive me mad.
2012-06-27 12:01:22 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Check out CA's projected pension shortfalls.

Liberals, they know economics!


They will just raise taxes on the rich people. Problem solved, cause they would never move away.
2012-06-27 11:55:56 AM
1 votes:
Didn't some finance chick not long ago write about how municipal debt (ie, cities being deeply in debt, partly because of pensions/healthcare costs) was going to be a big problem, and everybody (esp. people who run/work for municipalities) tell her she was crazy and irresponsible to even suggest such a thing?
2012-06-27 11:55:52 AM
1 votes:
While Cleveland was in default on some loans in the late '70s and early '80s, they were able to adjust their debts out of court and thus never made a formal Chapter 9 bankruptcy filing. Also while Stockton is the largest municipality to make a Chapter 9 filing, the largest two Chapter 9 filings were 1994 (Orange County, Calif.) and 2010-11 (Jefferson County, Ala). These last two examples had less to do with "hard times" and more to do with massive fraud, graft, bribery and embezzlement.
2012-06-27 11:54:38 AM
1 votes:

Fish in a Barrel: Of course, but that's a very, very long way from meaning they deserve to lose their money?


Well, depends on how you interpret the word. If you make a bad investment and you lose your money fair and square, you don't deserve to be repaid. It's not because you're a bad person, but because there is risk and your dice roll was bad. It's not deserves as in karma.
2012-06-27 11:52:00 AM
1 votes:

maudibjr: Fish in a Barrel: namatad: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Did Cleveland really file for Bankruptcy or is Subby just being snarky?

defaulted 30 years ago ... talked about filing in 2009?

but
doesnt this solve all the cities and states problems??
file for bankruptcy, screw the tards who gave you the loans in the first place, screw the voters who thought you were doing a good job when you borrowed the money in the first place, no one gets hurt.

well, no one who doesnt deserve it.

So people who bought muni bonds deserve to lose their money?

Investment is a form of risk.


Of course, but that's a very, very long way from meaning they deserve to lose their money?
2012-06-27 11:37:13 AM
1 votes:
Shush, Subby! I live in Cleveland.
I like it here.
I can buy a house for the price of a cheap car.

Roads need some work though.
2012-06-27 11:36:44 AM
1 votes:
How bad is it when you even get overlooked in the bankruptscy department?
Some day, Cleveland; some day something big and great will happen in your city, and I will be cheering for you.

/Unless it's at Boston's expense,
//in which case everyone in the world will be cheering for you except for me and my friends
2012-06-27 11:35:17 AM
1 votes:

namatad: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Did Cleveland really file for Bankruptcy or is Subby just being snarky?

defaulted 30 years ago ... talked about filing in 2009?

but
doesnt this solve all the cities and states problems??
file for bankruptcy, screw the tards who gave you the loans in the first place, screw the voters who thought you were doing a good job when you borrowed the money in the first place, no one gets hurt.

well, no one who doesnt deserve it.


So people who bought muni bonds deserve to lose their money?
2012-06-27 10:10:40 AM
1 votes:
"Retired police department employee Geri Ridge said she fears not being able to afford health-care insurance.

I don't have that kind of income," said Ridge, 56, noting she is concerned a large share of her $1,895 monthly pension payment could be consumed by large insurance costs due to her history of heart attacks."


Well, she's too young for Medicare, so she could take advantage of the subsidized plans that will be made available via HCR....oh wait, I forgot, that would be communist or something.

Never mind - just let her put off care until she's in dire need, then the taxpayers can foot the bill that she won't be able to pay. That's much more American.
 
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