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(CNN)   In depth investigation of Fast and Furious reveals that - now, you may want to sit down for this - the DOJ did nothing wrong and the whole thing is a politically motivated witch hunt   (features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com) divider line 653
    More: Obvious, Justice Department, DOJ, Furious, Branch-Davidians, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, Charles Grassley, contempt of Congress, street gangs  
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4007 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jun 2012 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-27 08:36:47 AM
I am shocked. In an election year!?
 
2012-06-27 09:12:26 AM
Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?
 
2012-06-27 09:19:09 AM
No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking

Wait, what?
 
2012-06-27 09:22:52 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


For one thing, it keeps the right wing frothing over this instead of looking for a new outrage.
 
2012-06-27 09:25:18 AM
 
2012-06-27 09:26:52 AM
People that work for various government agencies are not universally retarded?

That's not what those smart folks from the Tea Party have been telling me.
 
2012-06-27 09:38:46 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


He did.There was no cover up.
 
2012-06-27 09:41:02 AM
The cover up is worse than the crime.
Holder were are the documents, not just the ones you decide to give?
Why does 0bama assert exec privilege for something he knows nothing about and wasn't involved in?
 
2012-06-27 09:42:13 AM

Dinki: EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?

He did.There was no cover up.


Uh, no... There are several thousand documents that they are refusing to turn over. Also, the question of who ultimately authorized this is still unanswered. Twisting the facts is not the same as telling the truth.
 
2012-06-27 09:45:18 AM

BillCo: Twisting the facts is not the same as telling the truth.


Poe's law in effect in this thread so soon?
 
2012-06-27 09:45:44 AM

BillCo: Dinki: EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?

He did.There was no cover up.

Uh, no... There are several thousand documents that they are refusing to turn over. Also, the question of who ultimately authorized this is still unanswered. Twisting the facts is not the same as telling the truth.


gosh
the government keeping secrets secret?
or keeping evidence which is going to be used in a trial private?
gosh

tell you what
as soon as the bush admin turns over all of the documentation of the valerie plame investigation and releases the name of the person who outed her, THEN obama will let you see his REAL birth certificate from Iran.
 
2012-06-27 09:47:31 AM
Some call it the "parade of ants"; others the "river of iron." The Mexican government has estimated that 2,000 weapons are smuggled daily from the U.S. into Mexico.

Holy shiat.
 
2012-06-27 09:53:00 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


Is this the same as saying "if you're not guilty, you should have no problem with us searching your house?"
 
2012-06-27 09:53:08 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


Holder was going to turn the documents over, but his dog ate them.

And then Obama ate the dog!!!

/eleventy
 
2012-06-27 09:54:27 AM

namatad: or keeping evidence which is going to be used in a trial private?
gosh


you think that you are allowed to do that?
gosh.
 
2012-06-27 09:55:39 AM
The whole program was designed to sway public sentiment regarding firearms to make the US look like a major supplier of illegal guns to Mexico. It failed miserably, The drug cartels can fly in plane loads of guns, they don't need one guy to bring a couple back hidden in a truck of melons.


Fast and Furious was a political stunt from the start, a political stunt that got federal agents killed.
 
2012-06-27 09:58:16 AM
The DOJ did nothing right, either.
 
2012-06-27 10:01:15 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?

Is this the same as saying "if you're not guilty, you should have no problem with us searching your house?"


if there is a valid search warrant, then you should comply with the law...unless of course you are above the law like the AG.
 
2012-06-27 10:01:43 AM
If people actually care about this whole mess, they'd start calling for a massive reevaluation of the war on drugs.

Absent of that, this is nothing but political opportunism.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-06-27 10:05:46 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


Because they contain sensitive information like the names of informants and people who co-operated with ATF against Mexican drug cartels?

Because he knows that Republicans are simply trolling for policy memos they can use for political purposes?

Maybe he knows that Republicans will blow investigations and get people killed in they can score political points out of it?
 
2012-06-27 10:05:51 AM

feckingmorons: The whole program was designed to sway public sentiment regarding firearms to make the US look like a major supplier of illegal guns to Mexico.


Cletus C.: This is Rachel Maddow's talking point.

Pay attention.


teehee
 
2012-06-27 10:06:29 AM

make me some tea: Some call it the "parade of ants"; others the "river of iron." The Mexican government has estimated that 2,000 weapons are smuggled imported daily from the U.S. into Mexico.

Holy shiat.


TADA!
I fixed the problem, once and for all.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-06-27 10:07:50 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: namatad: or keeping evidence which is going to be used in a trial private?
gosh

you think that you are allowed to do that?
gosh.


How silly, to believe in the Constitution. I'll bet he believes in big foot too.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-06-27 10:09:51 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?

Is this the same as saying "if you're not guilty, you should have no problem with us searching your house?"

if there is a valid search warrant, then you should comply with the law...unless of course you are above the law like the AG.


Or if you actually know what the law is, like the AG.
 
2012-06-27 10:10:07 AM
DOJ turned over all the documents that Issa requested. Issa found nothing in those documents so he requested all the documents about gathering the documents and all the communications about dealing with Issa's investigation. The Whitehouse stepped in and told him no.

You can still pretend to be outraged, but at least know what's going on.
 
2012-06-27 10:15:23 AM
 
2012-06-27 10:15:45 AM

feckingmorons: The whole program was designed to sway public sentiment regarding firearms to make the US look like a major supplier of illegal guns to Mexico. It failed miserably, The drug cartels can fly in plane loads of guns, they don't need one guy to bring a couple back hidden in a truck of melons.


Fast and Furious was a political stunt from the start, a political stunt that got federal agents killed.


Here are 5 reasons why that conspiracy theory doesn't prove out.

Also read here: Link

"It was a very bad idea, poorly executed. But, as conservatives should understand better than most, the government frequently implements very bad ideas and does so incompetently. In any case, trying to apprehend cartel bosses through Fast and Furious strikes me as less foolish than intentionally increasing shootings in Mexico to enhance the cause of gun control in the U.S."
 
2012-06-27 10:18:19 AM

James!: DOJ turned over all the documents that Issa requested. Issa found nothing in those documents so he requested all the documents about gathering the documents and all the communications about dealing with Issa's investigation. The Whitehouse stepped in and told him no.

You can still pretend to be outraged, but at least know what's going on.


And the reason given is that the documents that the DOJ won't turn over (FTFA) "could not be released because they related to ongoing criminal investigations."

Sounds legit.
 
2012-06-27 10:18:26 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


Maybe because the documents requested had nothing to do with F&F program before it was ended.
 
2012-06-27 10:18:52 AM

make me some tea: Here are 5 reasons why that conspiracy theory doesn't prove out.


Yeah, but the conspiracy helps conservatives avoid noticing the fact that the GOP nominated a gun grabber who signed one of the most extensive gun control measures in the country and the Democrats nominated someone who has signed several pieces of legislation expanding gun rights in America.
 
2012-06-27 10:19:15 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: The cover up is worse than the crime.
Holder were whar are the documents, not just the ones you decide to give?
Why does 0bama assert exec privilege for something he knows nothing about and wasn't involved in?


Sorry. Pet peeve.
 
2012-06-27 10:21:22 AM

feckingmorons: The whole program was designed to sway public sentiment regarding firearms to make the US look like a major supplier of illegal guns to Mexico. It failed miserably, The drug cartels can fly in plane loads of guns, they don't need one guy to bring a couple back hidden in a truck of melons.


OK... so accepting the validity of the premise of your second sentence, can you see why the assertion in your first sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?
 
2012-06-27 10:30:14 AM

gilgigamesh: feckingmorons: The whole program was designed to sway public sentiment regarding firearms to make the US look like a major supplier of illegal guns to Mexico. It failed miserably, The drug cartels can fly in plane loads of guns, they don't need one guy to bring a couple back hidden in a truck of melons.

OK... so accepting the validity of the premise of your second sentence, can you see why the assertion in your first sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?


Good catch.
 
2012-06-27 10:41:50 AM

vpb: tenpoundsofcheese: namatad: or keeping evidence which is going to be used in a trial private?
gosh

you think that you are allowed to do that?
gosh.

How silly, to believe in the Constitution. I'll bet he believes in big foot too.


really, the Constitution says that you can hide evidence? I missed that.
 
2012-06-27 10:52:51 AM

gilgigamesh: feckingmorons: The whole program was designed to sway public sentiment regarding firearms to make the US look like a major supplier of illegal guns to Mexico. It failed miserably, The drug cartels can fly in plane loads of guns, they don't need one guy to bring a couple back hidden in a truck of melons.

OK... so accepting the validity of the premise of your second sentence, can you see why the assertion in your first sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?


Survey shows: no, he probably can't see why.
 
2012-06-27 10:54:18 AM
So, in Arizona, any citizen can walk in, purchase as many firearms as they want with cash, and walk out.

What is the BATFE supposed to do when they see this purchase? They can't arrest the buyer.

By January 2010 the agents had identified 20 suspects who had paid some $350,000 in cash for more than 650 guns. According to Rep. Issa's congressional committee, Group VII had enough evidence to make arrests and close the case then.

What would Rep. Issa charge them with? Buying lots of guns legally?
 
2012-06-27 10:54:25 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


Because we remember Whitewater.
 
2012-06-27 10:58:48 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: vpb: tenpoundsofcheese: namatad: or keeping evidence which is going to be used in a trial private?
gosh

you think that you are allowed to do that?
gosh.

How silly, to believe in the Constitution. I'll bet he believes in big foot too.

really, the Constitution says that you can hide evidence? I missed that.


What evidence? What's been hiding in the shadows of 0-fartbongo's dictator-lite administration? Secret Communist plots? The memo we've all know exists that lays out the nefarious plot to ban gun sales in the US, you know-that memo from 0bingo-lama-ding-dong to Beelzeholder that stated "dude, in power now-execute the plan to disarm the real americans. I've dispatched a border agent to sacrifice. Once that happens, we'll put the legislation on the table. FEMA camps are online and ready. My only regret was that due to my satanic rituals and required five daily Muslim prayer times, I was unable to use the rather perfect shooting of a sitting Congresswoman to execute the plot.

"We are go. Repeat, we are go"
 
2012-06-27 11:02:23 AM

chimp_ninja: So, in Arizona, any citizen can walk in, purchase as many firearms as they want with cash, and walk out.

What is the BATFE supposed to do when they see this purchase? They can't arrest the buyer.

By January 2010 the agents had identified 20 suspects who had paid some $350,000 in cash for more than 650 guns. According to Rep. Issa's congressional committee, Group VII had enough evidence to make arrests and close the case then.

What would Rep. Issa charge them with? Buying lots of guns legally?


Having cash while brown.
 
2012-06-27 11:07:16 AM

dr_blasto: tenpoundsofcheese: vpb: tenpoundsofcheese: namatad: or keeping evidence which is going to be used in a trial private?
gosh

you think that you are allowed to do that?
gosh.

How silly, to believe in the Constitution. I'll bet he believes in big foot too.

really, the Constitution says that you can hide evidence? I missed that.

What evidence? What's been hiding in the shadows of 0-fartbongo's dictator-lite administration? Secret Communist plots? The memo we've all know exists that lays out the nefarious plot to ban gun sales in the US, you know-that memo from 0bingo-lama-ding-dong to Beelzeholder that stated "dude, in power now-execute the plan to disarm the real americans. I've dispatched a border agent to sacrifice. Once that happens, we'll put the legislation on the table. FEMA camps are online and ready. My only regret was that due to my satanic rituals and required five daily Muslim prayer times, I was unable to use the rather perfect shooting of a sitting Congresswoman to execute the plot.

"We are go. Repeat, we are go"


Obama wanted to get the guns into Mexico to terrorize Romney's polygamist relatives.
 
2012-06-27 11:08:48 AM
Well, this thread has dried up like an old cooch now, hasn't it?

Anyone else got anything, or are we done here?
 
2012-06-27 11:13:02 AM
 
2012-06-27 11:18:52 AM

mrshowrules: dr_blasto: tenpoundsofcheese: vpb: tenpoundsofcheese: namatad: or keeping evidence which is going to be used in a trial private?
gosh

you think that you are allowed to do that?
gosh.

How silly, to believe in the Constitution. I'll bet he believes in big foot too.

really, the Constitution says that you can hide evidence? I missed that.

What evidence? What's been hiding in the shadows of 0-fartbongo's dictator-lite administration? Secret Communist plots? The memo we've all know exists that lays out the nefarious plot to ban gun sales in the US, you know-that memo from 0bingo-lama-ding-dong to Beelzeholder that stated "dude, in power now-execute the plan to disarm the real americans. I've dispatched a border agent to sacrifice. Once that happens, we'll put the legislation on the table. FEMA camps are online and ready. My only regret was that due to my satanic rituals and required five daily Muslim prayer times, I was unable to use the rather perfect shooting of a sitting Congresswoman to execute the plot.

"We are go. Repeat, we are go"

Obama wanted to get the guns into Mexico to terrorize Romney's polygamist relatives.


Oh my, this plot is more nefarious than I thought. Someone MUST STOP HIM!
 
2012-06-27 11:19:36 AM

gilgigamesh: Well, this thread has dried up like an old cooch now, hasn't it?

Anyone else got anything, or are we done here?


I have this weird foot pain today. Outside of the foot, mainly.
 
2012-06-27 11:24:37 AM

EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?


Isn't Holder's actual explanation that the documents list off multiple undercover agents that cartel enforcers would just LOVE to find and behead?
 
2012-06-27 11:26:50 AM

BillCo: Dinki: EvilEgg: Then why didn't Holder just turn over the documents? If there was no crime, why the cover up?

He did.There was no cover up.

Uh, no... There are several thousand documents that they are refusing to turn over. Also, the question of who ultimately authorized this is still unanswered. Twisting the facts is not the same as telling the truth.


Wanna know how I know you didn't RTFA?
 
2012-06-27 11:27:20 AM

feckingmorons: The whole program was designed to sway public sentiment regarding firearms to make the US look like a major supplier of illegal guns to Mexico. It failed miserably,


The United States IS A GIANT SUPPLIER OF ILLEGAL GUNS TO MEXICO.

Know why? Because the ATF wasn't selling these weapons. They were watching other people sell them. People that were already selling them, and had been for years. The problem with the program is that the gunrunners weren't arrested, just watched.

That border agent that "Obama killed"? If F&F had never been implemented and not been replaced with anything, exactly the same American guns would be in the hands of exactly the same people.
 
2012-06-27 11:28:58 AM
It's red meat for a base so afraid of everything that they'll vote against their interests just so they get the guy that makes them feel the safest.

Seriously, just how much energy does it take a Tea Party Republican to stay in that constant state of fear? It has to be exhausting.
 
2012-06-27 11:29:05 AM
Except they did

"In the fall of 2009, ATF agents installed a secret phone line and hidden cameras in a ceiling panel and wall at Andre Howard's Lone Wolf gun store. They gave him one basic instruction: Sell guns to every illegal purchaser who walks through the door.

"For 15 months, Howard did as he was told. To customers with phony IDs or wads of cash he normally would have turned away, he sold pistols, rifles and semiautomatics.

According to a confidential memo written by assistant federal prosecutor Emory Hurley, 'Mr. Howard had expressed concerns about the cooperation he was providing and whether he was endangering himself or implicating himself in a criminal investigation.'"

They told gun store owners to sell to customers they otherwise would not have sold to. It wasn't business as usual. They were instructed to sell to people with fake ids.
 
2012-06-27 11:33:11 AM

chimp_ninja: What would Rep. Issa charge them with? Buying lots of guns legally?


Selling guns to foreign nationals as an individual is a federal crime, unless the weapon is an antique.*

*99% sure
 
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