Subby, it is sad that you can't get past your jealousy over not being able to afford something that someone else can, but you need to look at the big picture. When people who have money buy shiny stuff, it is people who need money that build it. Why do you hate poor people?

One of the executives that used to work here got the Robb Report. Since he isnt here anymore I take his copy. It's pretty cool great pictures of exotic resorts and $$$$ toys. This months issue has a $3 million sub and they give you lessons!!

It's kind of funny for those of us who remember when the government had Subbys attitude towards the American yacht building industry. That turned out brilliantly...

baka-san: No matter what you think of the owners of executive jets, they employ a hell of a lot of people in manufacturing, maintenance, pilots, etc etc.

I see Subby has already been dogpiled on, but as I have aerospace engineer friends working at Bombardier, Dassault-Falcon, and Boeing, I felt the need to chip in as well.

What hasn't been mentioned is the fact that at least jet manufacturers MAKE something. You know, like, physical goods that require expertise, and refined manufacturing processes. As in, the kind of thing America needs to be MORE involved in, not less. Yeah, those wall street guys sure do generate a lot of "productivity" by moving numbers around in computers, but the jet maker's productivity doesn't disappear when the market hiccups. Added bonus: Private jet manufacturers would have to work REALLY HARD to wreck the American economy. The other guys, not so much.

/also, minor ftfy
//it's "etc", as in "et cetera"

I was in Wichita one day when Cessna announced they were laying off multiple thousands of employees...Hawker Beech had announced layoffs a week or two before.

The entire city felt hung over.

Over 10% the population of Wichita is employed in aerospace, which is largely business aviation (private jets).

Gulfstream employes nearly 7,000 in Savannah, GA, and close to 1000 in Dallas.

Dassault Falcon Jet and Hawker Beech employ hundreds in Little Rock, AR.

Society felt bad for the hit Detroit took when the Big 3 automakers fell on weak sales, because almost everybody drives a car. Not many people care when aircraft manufacturers fall on weak sells because a precious few will ever ride on a private jet, let alone have enough cash to own one...but both industries are important to the country and provide GOOD MANUFACTURING JOBS that this country desperately needs.

/corporate pilot

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Just as long as those evil CEOs are suffering who really cares about the little right??

What planet do you live on? The people that can actually afford these types of luxuries aren't suffering.

IrateShadow: What planet do you live on? The people that can actually afford these types of luxuries aren't suffering

You're late.

I do. Every time one of their products goes screaming over my house at 10pm. It's worse when there's cloud cover.

Cars ~ Detroit
Planes ~ Wichita

Why is it people are fascinated by planes but dont have a simple grasp of how the industry works...

The_Sponge: groppet: One of the executives that used to work here got the Robb Report. Since he isnt here anymore I take his copy. It's pretty cool great pictures of exotic resorts and $$$$ toys. This months issue has a $3 million sub and they give you lessons!!


I'll occasionally buy an issue if there's a good cigar article inside.

/Stogies are pretty much the only thing in that magazine that I can afford.

Yeah about all I could get would be an $80 cigar. They have a special bred pig from some company Jamon Ibrerico de Bellota. They say its a pata negra pig fed on a diet of acorns. It goes for $1290 a pound. I wonder how much a strip of bacon from it costs?

fustanella: It's worse when there's cloud cover.

Only the really really expensive ones can fly in the clouds.

grinding_journalist:
What hasn't been mentioned is the fact that at least jet manufacturers MAKE something. You know, like, physical goods that require expertise, and refined manufacturing processes. As in, the kind of thing America needs to be MORE involved in, not less. Yeah, those wall street guys sure do generate a lot of "productivity" by moving numbers around in computers, but the jet maker's productivity doesn't disappear when the market hiccups. Added bonus: Private jet manufacturers would have to work REALLY HARD to wreck the American economy. The other guys, not so much.


Don't forget all the electronics, exhaust systems, etc. that go into making those (you covered some of that). Many of the subcomponents are made by other companies aside from the builders and they're affected by this as well.

Someone referred to the industry as "trickle down". It's one of the few industries that truly is (until you get to the larger companies who supply commercial airlines, govt., and the like).

The Stealth Hippopotamus: You know those poor starving private jet makers employee a lot of people. But screw 'em right? Just as long as those evil CEOs are suffering who really cares about the little right??

This from the side of the aisle that has brought us such gems as "poor people have refrigerators" and "why shouldn't people just above the poverty line pay the same percent of their income to taxes as billionaires do?".

People like you lamenting the plight of the "little guy" is like a hungry wolf being concerned for the safety of a lost lamb. So forgive me if I suspect your concerns are merit-less, dishonest and aimed solely at selfish goals rather than being borne of a genuine concern for your fellow man.

Flew on a corporate jet twice, it was freakin awesome.

JohnAnnArbor: If you have no argument, attack opponent.

So, basically, you have no idea what you're talking about?

JohnAnnArbor: You haven't refuted his point

He hasn't made a point and he won't make a point and the fact that you're unaware of his well-established leanings and opinions which he has made very clear in many, many similar threads is of little consequence to me.

I don't know why people like you insist upon misusing logical fallacies in threads like this just because you heard someone else reference them once. Do you think I'm crafting a doctoral thesis or trying to engage in a formal philosophical argument with anybody where that would be relevant? Are you laboring under a fundamental misunderstanding of the typically informal nature of public web forums? The point is very simple: people who associate with a group that has made it a goal to wage economic warfare on "little guys" don't get taken seriously when they make posts lamenting the plight of "little guys". This is not unfair, it is not unusual, and it is not invalid. Allow me to simplify my response to him so that you understand it better:

"Your prior comments on similar subjects lead me to believe that your current comments are being made dishonestly and that you are feigning concern for opportunistic reasons. Because of these factors I do not believe that your comments are valid and I dismiss them without further consideration because you have caused me to lose enough respect for you that I do not feel it is worth my time to do any more than this."

It's called "pointing out hypocrisy". I am under no obligation to treat his assumptions as meaningful or factual and I am certainly under no obligation to go to the trouble of a formalized argument when my belief is that he's lying to begin with.

File all this away for future reference so that you don't make such a fool of yourself going forward.

CoolHandLucas: I was in Wichita one day when Cessna announced they were laying off multiple thousands of employees...Hawker Beech had announced layoffs a week or two before.

The entire city felt hung over.

Over 10% the population of Wichita is employed in aerospace, which is largely business aviation (private jets).

Gulfstream employes nearly 7,000 in Savannah, GA, and close to 1000 in Dallas.

Dassault Falcon Jet and Hawker Beech employ hundreds in Little Rock, AR.

Society felt bad for the hit Detroit took when the Big 3 automakers fell on weak sales, because almost everybody drives a car. Not many people care when aircraft manufacturers fall on weak sells because a precious few will ever ride on a private jet, let alone have enough cash to own one...but both industries are important to the country and provide GOOD MANUFACTURING JOBS that this country desperately needs.

/corporate pilot

What was the collective reaction this year when the city found out they were closing the plant that was to build the latest tanker and was given billions in incentives locally and at the state level?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020351360457714068058495 3 576.html

Red Shirt Blues: CoolHandLucas: I was in Wichita one day when Cessna announced they were laying off multiple thousands of employees...Hawker Beech had announced layoffs a week or two before.

The entire city felt hung over.

Over 10% the population of Wichita is employed in aerospace, which is largely business aviation (private jets).

Gulfstream employes nearly 7,000 in Savannah, GA, and close to 1000 in Dallas.

Dassault Falcon Jet and Hawker Beech employ hundreds in Little Rock, AR.

Society felt bad for the hit Detroit took when the Big 3 automakers fell on weak sales, because almost everybody drives a car. Not many people care when aircraft manufacturers fall on weak sells because a precious few will ever ride on a private jet, let alone have enough cash to own one...but both industries are important to the country and provide GOOD MANUFACTURING JOBS that this country desperately needs.

/corporate pilot

In my town Piper just laid off a bunch of people. They were going to expand and make a single engine private jet but the whole thing was canceled. Across the street is the former Dodger spring training facility. Flight Safety just canned some instructors......bad times.

Honda in Greensboro, NC is still moving along
Link

The_Sponge: dittybopper: All planes are amphibious at least once.


Wait....what?

Fark them.
I'd rather be unemployed than to build shiny toys for the rich that I can't aford myself.
What kind of world is this?
The people who has the competence to design the airplanes can't afford them, yet some gangster who are useless to anyone exept themselves can?
We become more and more wage-slave to the wealthy.

The_Sponge: dittybopper: All planes are amphibious at least once.


Wait....what?

US Airways Flight 1549 (better known as the "Miracle on the Hudson") provided an illustration of this concept a few years ago.