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(RamblingBeachCat.com)   The Dyatlov Pass Incident: Creepy as hell and still unable to be debunked   (ramblingbeachcat.com) divider line 66
    More: Scary, Dyatlov Pass, Dyatlov, Abercrombie & Fitch, Ural Mountains, internal organs, rescue missions, Ludmila Dubinina, Zinaida Kolmogorova  
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7948 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Jun 2012 at 9:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-27 08:36:58 AM
Do they always measure radioactivity as part of a mountain rescue in 1959?

Story is dumb.
 
2012-06-27 09:42:53 AM
I'll just leave this here:
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108
 
2012-06-27 09:43:59 AM
ugg, stupid clicky
Link
 
2012-06-27 09:48:27 AM
Ok...ok...enough! It was all my fault. I didn't mean for this charade to go on this long. I was cranky and happened to be in a wild part of Russia. I lost control. I regret everything....except taking that girl's tongue. That was pretty cool.
 
2012-06-27 09:49:25 AM
In before the bird haired Ancient Aliens guy
 
2012-06-27 09:49:33 AM
 
2012-06-27 09:51:09 AM

Magnifica: I'll just leave this here:
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108


Nice work. Won't make a bit of difference to those hungry for mystery, but that's always the case.
 
2012-06-27 09:52:26 AM

Argoran: Hey! Cracked.com took a swipe at that one!


From the article:

On October 20, 2008, Cracked.com included the Dyatlov Pass incident on their list article entitled 6 Famous Unsolved Mysteries (With Really Obvious Explanations) by Jake Slocum.

No offense to one of my favorite websites/sometimes employer Cracked.com (which you can probably tell by my article formattting) or Mr. Slocum, but they got this one dead wrong with regards to the explanation being "obvious."


Thank you, Argoran!
 
2012-06-27 09:52:34 AM

Argoran: Hey! Cracked.com took a swipe at that one!


There was a long bit about that in the article, there before the end of it.
 
2012-06-27 09:53:44 AM
This is not a bookmark to come back to read up on other odd/creepy stories that I hope get linked here.
 
2012-06-27 10:02:13 AM
This is actually easily explainable. submitter just beleives everything he reads.

First:

* "What would make them take their clothes off?"
Paradoxical undressing explains that part. It's a symptom of hypothermia. Hypothermia also can make people violent and disoriented, so this explains the wounds, too

*"Why were they orange!!?!?!?
Dead skin left to the elements in snowy terrain becomes leathery and orange-ish very quickly. Think of it like mummification. Completely normal and happens all the time. This is not the same thing as "tanning," you dolt. Ever seen a mummy?

*B-B-But they were radioactive!!
No. Just no. Without knowing the normal background levels. A relative spike as measured from some device doesn't tell you much unless you know the scale of the device, and the normal background dose.

*"But they walked a kilometer away from the campsite!"
Really? Seriously? Perhaps they were killed by some unknown process. Or perhaps they were out hiking when they saw the avalanche, and started running for help? Who knows? This disproves nothing.

*"But they were crushed to death and there was no soft tissue damage!
Well that's bad news for your explosion theory, too, then. Shock waves cause tissue damage as well. More likely they were crushed slowly over time, almost as if someone dumped a great amount of heavy material on top of them, like sand. or... I dunno... SNOW?


I know, I know, goddamn logic. fark me, right?
 
2012-06-27 10:02:35 AM

rudemix: This is not a bookmark to come back to read up on other odd/creepy stories that I hope get linked here.


I just clicked on the one in TFA about the Swedish sisters who go on a rampage in London. Weird, wild stuff.
 
2012-06-27 10:04:02 AM

jfarkinB: Magnifica: I'll just leave this here:
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108

Nice work. Won't make a bit of difference to those hungry for mystery, but that's always the case.


Not really. What you call nice work, I call ignorance. For example, it posits:

They quickly got hypothermia and probably shouted themselves hoarse for their friends. Two of them lost consciousness and the others made a desperation decision: To take what little clothes their two unconscious buddies had and risk it all to try and make it back to camp.

The more likely explanation for the people who died of hypothermia in this instance being undressed is paradoxical undressing, for example. Giving mundane but wrong answers to "spooky things" is just plain stupid, especially since it only fuels those who look for supernatural reasons once they find out that certain factual explanations are "wrong".
 
2012-06-27 10:04:56 AM

Crocodilly_Pontifex: This is actually easily explainable. submitter just beleives everything he reads.


Came in here to make pretty much those exact points, but you beat me to it.
 
2012-06-27 10:06:38 AM

Crocodilly_Pontifex: This is actually easily explainable. submitter just beleives everything he reads.

First:

* "What would make them take their clothes off?"
Paradoxical undressing explains that part. It's a symptom of hypothermia. Hypothermia also can make people violent and disoriented, so this explains the wounds, too


So if submitter just believes everything he reads, then he must have read this part:

We can be fairly certain that the "orange spheres" were missiles and that the hikers' disrobing was a symptom of hypothermia. We can also probably assume that Ms. Dubinina's tongue was made into a winter snack for some type of varmint.

...and believe it, right? So what, exactly, are you correcting him or her on?
 
2012-06-27 10:12:45 AM
Obligatory Link
 
2012-06-27 10:19:07 AM

Crocodilly_Pontifex: This is actually easily explainable. submitter just beleives everything he reads.

First:

* "What would make them take their clothes off?"
Paradoxical undressing explains that part. It's a symptom of hypothermia. Hypothermia also can make people violent and disoriented, so this explains the wounds, too

*"Why were they orange!!?!?!?
Dead skin left to the elements in snowy terrain becomes leathery and orange-ish very quickly. Think of it like mummification. Completely normal and happens all the time. This is not the same thing as "tanning," you dolt. Ever seen a mummy?

*B-B-But they were radioactive!!
No. Just no. Without knowing the normal background levels. A relative spike as measured from some device doesn't tell you much unless you know the scale of the device, and the normal background dose.

*"But they walked a kilometer away from the campsite!"
Really? Seriously? Perhaps they were killed by some unknown process. Or perhaps they were out hiking when they saw the avalanche, and started running for help? Who knows? This disproves nothing.

*"But they were crushed to death and there was no soft tissue damage!
Well that's bad news for your explosion theory, too, then. Shock waves cause tissue damage as well. More likely they were crushed slowly over time, almost as if someone dumped a great amount of heavy material on top of them, like sand. or... I dunno... SNOW?


I know, I know, goddamn logic. fark me, right?


So what you're saying is that an avalanche knocked out a few of them, spared the rest. Left the campsite in check, as well as footprints. Were the dead found above or below the snow? The ones that were left had no idea what to do with themselves and stayed within a kilometer vicinity dying of hypothermia?

Quite possible but I think there is a better explanation.

I'm not saying it was aliens but...
 
2012-06-27 10:19:57 AM

Dr. Mojo PhD: Crocodilly_Pontifex: This is actually easily explainable. submitter just beleives everything he reads.

First:

* "What would make them take their clothes off?"
Paradoxical undressing explains that part. It's a symptom of hypothermia. Hypothermia also can make people violent and disoriented, so this explains the wounds, too

So if submitter just believes everything he reads, then he must have read this part:

We can be fairly certain that the "orange spheres" were missiles and that the hikers' disrobing was a symptom of hypothermia. We can also probably assume that Ms. Dubinina's tongue was made into a winter snack for some type of varmint.

...and believe it, right? So what, exactly, are you correcting him or her on?


I'll be honest, I didn't even read the guys post. For one, what I scanned over was nothing original, and for another, I've read so many conspiracy blogs about this and other incidents that I felt pretty certain I would hit all the high notes without even looking.
 
2012-06-27 10:22:54 AM

FenixStorm1: Crocodilly_Pontifex: This is actually easily explainable. submitter just beleives everything he reads.

First:

* "What would make them take their clothes off?"
Paradoxical undressing explains that part. It's a symptom of hypothermia. Hypothermia also can make people violent and disoriented, so this explains the wounds, too

*"Why were they orange!!?!?!?
Dead skin left to the elements in snowy terrain becomes leathery and orange-ish very quickly. Think of it like mummification. Completely normal and happens all the time. This is not the same thing as "tanning," you dolt. Ever seen a mummy?

*B-B-But they were radioactive!!
No. Just no. Without knowing the normal background levels. A relative spike as measured from some device doesn't tell you much unless you know the scale of the device, and the normal background dose.

*"But they walked a kilometer away from the campsite!"
Really? Seriously? Perhaps they were killed by some unknown process. Or perhaps they were out hiking when they saw the avalanche, and started running for help? Who knows? This disproves nothing.

*"But they were crushed to death and there was no soft tissue damage!
Well that's bad news for your explosion theory, too, then. Shock waves cause tissue damage as well. More likely they were crushed slowly over time, almost as if someone dumped a great amount of heavy material on top of them, like sand. or... I dunno... SNOW?


I know, I know, goddamn logic. fark me, right?

So what you're saying is that an avalanche knocked out a few of them, spared the rest. Left the campsite in check, as well as footprints. Were the dead found above or below the snow? The ones that were left had no idea what to do with themselves and stayed within a kilometer vicinity dying of hypothermia?

Quite possible but I think there is a better explanation.

I'm not saying it was aliens but...


Two things:
1.) There is almost never a better explanation than human bewilderment/stupidity
2.) If you have a better, more plausible and concise argument that isn't needlessly complex, I'd love to hear it. Until then, Hypothermia and an avalanche in some combination is the best answer.
 
2012-06-27 10:24:40 AM
Messin' with Sasquatch.
 
2012-06-27 10:29:37 AM
Paradoxical undressing?

No. The two bodies found under the cedar nearly naked had their clothes cut off after they were dead, according to the official investigation. A very sensible thing to do for people trying to stave off hypothermia is to remove the clothes of the dead to use for themselves.

Here is a link to much more detailed information regarding the incident and the ensuing investigations, including diary entries and photos. (NSFW, dead bodies)

The evidence not only does not support paradoxical undressing, it eliminates it as a possibility.
 
2012-06-27 10:36:36 AM

Balchinian: Paradoxical undressing?

No. The two bodies found under the cedar nearly naked had their clothes cut off after they were dead, according to the official investigation. A very sensible thing to do for people trying to stave off hypothermia is to remove the clothes of the dead to use for themselves.

Here is a link to much more detailed information regarding the incident and the ensuing investigations, including diary entries and photos. (NSFW, dead bodies)

The evidence not only does not support paradoxical undressing, it eliminates it as a possibility.


That interpretation of the evidence certainly does.
 
2012-06-27 10:36:41 AM
FTFA: the lack of soft tissue damage associated with the enormous and fatally crushing force experienced by three of the hikers

This is not mysterious at all: this pattern is seen all the time in crashes involving rapid deceleration. There was one report that, IIRC, involved a helicopter crash where the occupants were found still strapped in to their harnesses. They looked perfectly healthy, apart from the whole Being Dead thing, although their internal organs were basically soup. It's only "mysterious" if you assume that the crushing force had to penetrate from the outside, but in reality it's no more mysterious than how somebody can get a concussion without having a hole in their head.

Without access to an actual autopsy report that details internal and external injuries it's impossible to say for sure, but the description is completely consistent with bodies that were moving fast and stopped suddenly.
 
2012-06-27 10:47:24 AM

Dr. Mojo PhD: ...and believe it, right? So what, exactly, are you correcting him or her on?


This "incident" was four kids killed by an avalanche. There is no "strange" or "paranormal" aspect to it. The radiation part was simply made up.
 
2012-06-27 10:47:38 AM

MadMonk: Messin' with Sasquatch.


You mean Samsqaunch.

Orange spheres?
videogamecritic.net
 
2012-06-27 10:55:32 AM
Subby's use of the word "debunked" seems to imply there is some alternative explanation (read: Aliens) that better explains this than the commonly accepted and mundane explanation of an avalanche, and that this alternative holds up better to scrutiny.
 
2012-06-27 11:03:55 AM

FenixStorm1: So what you're saying is that an avalanche knocked out a few of them, spared the rest. Left the campsite in check, as well as footprints. Were the dead found above or below the snow? The ones that were left had no idea what to do with themselves and stayed within a kilometer vicinity dying of hypothermia?

Quite possible but I think there is a better explanation.

I'm not saying it was aliens but...


Or, some people decided to go on a hike that day, and other people stayed behind. The avalanche killed the people who hiked, who weren't found until May presumably after the snow melted. The ones that were left didn't want to leave because they didn't know what had happened to their friends, and died near their intact camp of hypothermia.

You don't need to make up some bizzare sentient avalanche story to explain this stuff, nor do you need to grow your hair out and get a job with the History Channel.
 
2012-06-27 11:04:26 AM

kingoomieiii: Dr. Mojo PhD: ...and believe it, right? So what, exactly, are you correcting him or her on?

This "incident" was four kids killed by an avalanche. There is no "strange" or "paranormal" aspect to it. The radiation part was simply made up.



But avalanches bury things.

They and the tents weren't buried, from what I understand.
 
2012-06-27 11:15:29 AM
Blues_X


But avalanches bury things.

They and the tents weren't buried, from what I understand.


Hikers disappeared in January. Several bodies weren't found until May, four months later when the snow had most likely melted.The two who were found in February were found near in the woods nearby. It's possible the first two people who left the tent thought there was an avalanche coming and panicked, running into the nearby woods without a lantern. They built a fire to try and stay warm until there was enough light to find their way back to camp. When no avalanche came the others went looking for them, and while they were out searching an actual avalanche occurred, burying them in a different location.
 
2012-06-27 11:26:54 AM
i.qkme.me
 
2012-06-27 11:36:46 AM

Balchinian: Here is a link to much more detailed information regarding the incident and the ensuing investigations, including diary entries and photos. (NSFW, dead bodies)


Very interesting link; I hadn't read some of those details (or theories) before - thanks for posting.

/will read more at lunchtime
 
2012-06-27 12:01:23 PM

StandsWithAFist: Balchinian: Here is a link to much more detailed information regarding the incident and the ensuing investigations, including diary entries and photos. (NSFW, dead bodies)

Very interesting link; I hadn't read some of those details (or theories) before - thanks for posting.

/will read more at lunchtime


My pleasure. :)
 
2012-06-27 12:51:46 PM
if you read the actual autopsies that they linked to in that article, you can clearly see that every single member had soft tissue damage

Link
 
2012-06-27 12:58:53 PM
"Paradoxical Undressing"?

I'm using that line this weekend.
 
2012-06-27 01:02:32 PM
Wait, didn't we see this on the X-Files?

\I want to believe...
 
2012-06-27 01:44:00 PM
The Soviets generated mountains of paperwork on everything.

Either somebody went through it and cherry-picked every odd detail they could find in order to tell stories and write books about a compelling mystery, or people were killed by magic, which may or may not have come from aliens.

Avalanche is probable, and if the military was testing weapons nearby, that could certainly cause one.
 
2012-06-27 02:37:55 PM

StandsWithAFist: Balchinian: Here is a link to much more detailed information regarding the incident and the ensuing investigations, including diary entries and photos. (NSFW, dead bodies)

Very interesting link; I hadn't read some of those details (or theories) before - thanks for posting.

/will read more at lunchtime


Read this and came to the conclusion that it was definitely not an avalanche. I think most likely it was criminals escaped from a nearby Gulag who killed these people:

Siberia at the time of the tragedy was still a land of Gulag. Many political prisoners were released in 1953- 56, but criminals were still behind bars. Many small concentration camps were dispersed all over the region. The closest was Ivlag situated just few miles from a site of a tragedy. Although it is true that there were no escapes around the time of the tragedy it doesn't mean that it never happened before. History knows many examples then prisoners would escape and go into hiding for years and even decades at a time. They could have easily missed death of Stalin in 1953 and subsequent amnesty to all political prisoners. Young tourists could be taken for unwanted witnesses and subsequently killed. If you take in consideration that many of the political prisoners came straight from the fronts of the World War II it is plausible that these people knew how to kill and were open to the idea. Furthermore Yury Yudin discovered a piece of clothing that did not belong to any of the members of the group. This "obmotki" is a wide piece of clothing that are wrapped around feet or legs to keep them warm. They have distinct shape and made from a particular material. They were widely used among the soldiers in the 40's and later among the prisoners of Stalin's concentration camps. No body knows how it got here and no body knows how it disappeared from the evidence room. But it did.

 
2012-06-27 03:05:10 PM
The ghost of Alfred Packer?
 
2012-06-27 03:07:53 PM

Cymbal: Read this and came to the conclusion that it was definitely not an avalanche. I think most likely it was criminals escaped from a nearby Gulag who killed these people:


I don't follow. How does an extra piece of clothing, which cannot even be proven to exist, rule out an avalance?

Call me cynical, but the whole escaped prisoner thing sounds more like an urban legend, and the convienient "disappearing evidence" aspect doesn't really lend the idea a ton of credibility.
 
2012-06-27 03:44:48 PM
How about they got pissy with each other and some members got voted off the island as a possible explanation.

Still not seeing anyone trying to take on the slashed up tent issue.

Let me elaborate, "You slept with X, get the fark out;" cut cut cut. "What a dick for forcing them out to die in the snow, we're leaving"
 
2012-06-27 03:51:33 PM

NathanAllen: Still not seeing anyone trying to take on the slashed up tent issue.


You mean a tent exposed to the elements for several months with no maintenance wouldn't get ripped?

/Of course not, is *SOVIET* tent.
 
2012-06-27 04:06:32 PM

NathanAllen: Still not seeing anyone trying to take on the slashed up tent issue.



I didn't think that was a big part of the mystery. If people were panicking because they thought there was an avalance coming down on them they'd probably get out of the tent as quickly as possible without worrying about if they were ripping it up.
 
2012-06-27 04:18:00 PM

Chameleon: Or, some people decided to go on a hike that day, and other people stayed behind. The avalanche killed the people who hiked, who weren't found until May presumably after the snow melted. The ones that were left didn't want to leave because they didn't know what had happened to their friends, and died near their intact camp of hypothermia.

You don't need to make up some bizzare sentient avalanche story to explain this stuff, nor do you need to grow your hair out and get a job with the History Channel.


That doesn't make any sense if you read the autopsy reports and other reports. The clothes that were cut off the people adjacent to the site were found with the bodies found far away from the site. It is clear the people at the site died first.


Based on the autopsy reports, it sounds like either a couple of the guys fought each other or fought some unknown person or persons. They had damage to their hands consistent with punching someone or something repeatedly.


Even in the case of avalanche, why are the footprints intact, why are items at the campsite not disturbed and why couldn't the survivors return to the site?

I don't really see how a flimsy canvas tent would have prevented hypothermia but then they suddenly all die when they can't return to it? How did they all fit in that tiny tent anyway?

Why were all the shoes missing, despite each person having brought two sets on the trip? If it is -25 you're not going to take off your shoes, even in the tent.

The girl with her tongue missing had a blood filled stomach. She was probably alive when it got cut off. Now, it could have been cut off by her jaw slamming shut, getting hit by an avalanche. Then should would have bled out essentially in her own mouth. Why her lips were gone then is beyond me. If her tongue was cut while her heart was still beating, why would animals need to eat her lips off to get her tongue? Why didn't they eat the other peoples tongues?



It seems highly unusual, unless there were multiple avalanches in a short time that somehow did minimal damage to things like tents while crushing human bodies into pulp.
 
2012-06-27 04:19:23 PM

Vash The Stampede: Blues_X


But avalanches bury things.

They and the tents weren't buried, from what I understand.

Hikers disappeared in January. Several bodies weren't found until May, four months later when the snow had most likely melted.The two who were found in February were found near in the woods nearby. It's possible the first two people who left the tent thought there was an avalanche coming and panicked, running into the nearby woods without a lantern. They built a fire to try and stay warm until there was enough light to find their way back to camp. When no avalanche came the others went looking for them, and while they were out searching an actual avalanche occurred, burying them in a different location.


Fail. The clothing from the people dead near the camp was cut off and found with the people dead in the other location. The people near the camp died first, this is a fact.
 
2012-06-27 04:21:40 PM

Vash The Stampede: Cymbal: Read this and came to the conclusion that it was definitely not an avalanche. I think most likely it was criminals escaped from a nearby Gulag who killed these people:

I don't follow. How does an extra piece of clothing, which cannot even be proven to exist, rule out an avalance?

Call me cynical, but the whole escaped prisoner thing sounds more like an urban legend, and the convienient "disappearing evidence" aspect doesn't really lend the idea a ton of credibility.


Three of the men were undeniably in a fistfight prior to death, based on their autopsies. Were they fighting each other watching the avalanche coming or fighting someone else?
 
2012-06-27 04:23:24 PM

Vash The Stampede: NathanAllen: Still not seeing anyone trying to take on the slashed up tent issue.


I didn't think that was a big part of the mystery. If people were panicking because they thought there was an avalance coming down on them they'd probably get out of the tent as quickly as possible without worrying about if they were ripping it up.


If there was an avalanche coming, they probably would have used the door.
 
2012-06-27 04:39:27 PM

Bullseyed: Vash The Stampede: Blues_X


But avalanches bury things.

They and the tents weren't buried, from what I understand.

Hikers disappeared in January. Several bodies weren't found until May, four months later when the snow had most likely melted.The two who were found in February were found near in the woods nearby. It's possible the first two people who left the tent thought there was an avalanche coming and panicked, running into the nearby woods without a lantern. They built a fire to try and stay warm until there was enough light to find their way back to camp. When no avalanche came the others went looking for them, and while they were out searching an actual avalanche occurred, burying them in a different location.

Fail. The clothing from the people dead near the camp was cut off and found with the people dead in the other location. The people near the camp died first, this is a fact.


Okay, I don't claim to know exactly what happened. Perhaps the people closer to the camp died first and the others removed their clothes and tried to bundle themselves up more to protect against the cold. I don't know, but there are perfectly natural, relatively mundane explanations for everything that happened so I don't see the need to create overly complex alternative theories.
 
2012-06-27 04:47:57 PM

Bullseyed: Vash The Stampede: NathanAllen: Still not seeing anyone trying to take on the slashed up tent issue.


I didn't think that was a big part of the mystery. If people were panicking because they thought there was an avalance coming down on them they'd probably get out of the tent as quickly as possible without worrying about if they were ripping it up.

If there was an avalanche coming, they probably would have used the door.


Doubt it. Think about it: you think you hear an avalanche bearing down on you, but can't see out. You know how fast an avalanche can move. Are you going to try to fumble with a tiny zipper pull in a blind panic (while anyone else in the tent with you is ALSO in a blind panic), or are you going to whip out the knife on your belt and cut yourself the fark out of that tent?
 
2012-06-27 04:52:21 PM

Bullseyed: Three of the men were undeniably in a fistfight prior to death, based on their autopsies. Were they fighting each other watching the avalanche coming or fighting someone else?



You'll have to forgive me if I'm skeptical of your ability to interpret the autopsy results definitively. I cannot view them on the computer I am currently at so I can't comment on them beyond that.


Bullseyed:If there was an avalanche coming, they probably would have used the door.

They could have, but that doesn't mean they did. In the middle of the night, they wake up in total darkness and think they hear death raining down on them, who can say they didn't panic and just start slashing to get out as fast as they could? I'm not saying it's definitely what happened, but I don't see why it's not a perfectly reasonable explanation.
 
2012-06-27 04:56:30 PM

Vash The Stampede: NathanAllen: Still not seeing anyone trying to take on the slashed up tent issue.


I didn't think that was a big part of the mystery. If people were panicking because they thought there was an avalance coming down on them they'd probably get out of the tent as quickly as possible without worrying about if they were ripping it up.


Agreed. The biggest mystery is what compelled them to flee the tent. I have a hard time believing it was an avalanche when the tent remained in place and the only damage found was caused by them ripping it. An avalanche would most likely completely destroy the tent, and scatter all remains.

If they got spooked by the sound of an avalanche, fled, then realized the avalanche wasn't heading their way, wouldn't they go back to the tent? Especially when many of them fled without shoes/socks?
 
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