I believe the Oh Snap criteria has been fulfilled.

just like ole' bush was a uniter, not a divider. Mitt Rmoney

Hurr Durr Biden Gaffes hurr durr he never says anything relevant or...f*cking right on, in this case.

Agreed, but what have the Democrats done to stop or reduce outsourcing in the past 30 years?

You know its bad when Biden is ripping on you hard.

farkityfarker: Agreed, but what have the Democrats done to stop or reduce outsourcing in the past 30 years?

Yeah, yeah.... both sides are bad... so vote accordingly.

But in reality you're right. The dem's are less bad, but in a lot of important facets they are complicit. They need to try stuff and fail rather than just trying to "poo-poo" on the issues after the fact with no substance, only criticism.

chiett: Well if Old Joe could have created a job for every gaff he's made the unemployment problem would already be solved.

You DO know the definition of gaffe is "accidentally speaking the truth"? And that's bad, because ...?

No respect, I tell you. No respect.

November 6, 2012:



"Hey, everybody! We're all gonna get laid!"

So many lines of counterattack...Do you bring up the Obama Free Trade agreements? Or the standard "Liberals are racist against [insert people from foreign country with slave labor wages]!" Or maybe the classic "why do leftists hate free markets? What's wrong with freedom?" Meh, let's keep it simple - neither 0bama or Biden has had a job in the private sector - they're mooches from the government and don't know the meaning of creating a job.

fusillade762: Hey, but they're still jobs, right?

And don't forget THEIR STANDARD OF LIVING HAS INCREASED. Significantly.

farkityfarker: Agreed, but what have the Democrats done to stop or reduce outsourcing in the past 30 years?

How about the anti-outsourcing bill that was killed by Republican filibuster in 2010?

AverageAmericanGuy: No respect, I tell you. No respect.

Respect is earned. What has Rmoney done to earn it?

Shaggy_C: 0bama

*lolhurrdurrfistbrobump*

Yea, cause Obama is fighting for our jobs...

A critical document from President Barack Obama's free trade negotiations with eight Pacific nations was leaked online early Wednesday morning, revealing that the administration intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations, contradicting prior promises.

The leaked document has been posted on the website of Citizens Trade Campaign, a long-time critic of the administration's trade objectives. The new leak follows substantial controversy surrounding the secrecy of the talks, in which some members of Congress have complained they are not being given the same access to trade documents that corporate officials receive.

"The outrageous stuff in this leaked text may well be why U.S. trade officials have been so extremely secretive about these past two years of [trade] negotiations," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch in a written statement.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has been so incensed by the lack of access as to introduce legislation requiring further disclosure. House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has gone so far as to leak a separate document from the talks on his website. Other Senators are considering writing a letter to Ron Kirk, the top trade negotiator under Obama, demanding more disclosure.

The newly leaked document is one of the most controversial of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. It addresses a broad sweep of regulations governing international investment and reveals the Obama administration's advocacy for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.

Oh, wait... He's actually fighting to give radical new powers to his obscenely wealthy "job creator" friends.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: farkityfarker: Agreed, but what have the Democrats done to stop or reduce outsourcing in the past 30 years?

Yeah, yeah.... both sides are bad... so vote accordingly.

But in reality you're right. The dem's are less bad, but in a lot of important facets they are complicit. They need to try stuff and fail rather than just trying to "poo-poo" on the issues after the fact with no substance, only criticism.

Canadian politics at its finest. We don't vote them in, we vote them out.

See folks...Trickle-Down Econ DOES work....just not for American workers.

Both sides are bad, so revolution.

mr lawson: See folks...Trickle-Down Econ DOES work....just not for American workers.

Exactly, as long as you can find countries that have employment laws that could best be described as "I can't believe it's not slavery."

If he keeps this awesomeness up, somebody will need to 'shop a Biden Trollface.

chiett: Well if Old Joe could have created a job for every gaff he's made the unemployment problem would already be solved.

You should slap yourself for saying something so stupid

Joe Biden is one of the best things about the Obama administration. Choosing him as his VP was an absolutely inspired choice.

Biden is getting impatient. He is beginning to think that he'll have no one to debate over the election.

DarwiOdrade: So vote Republican!

So stop pretending either one of them is anything other than a sold out tool of the obscenely wealthy.

BullBearMS: Yea, cause Obama is fighting for our jobs...

A critical document from President Barack Obama's free trade negotiations with eight Pacific nations was leaked online early Wednesday morning, revealing that the administration intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations, contradicting prior promises.

The leaked document has been posted on the website of Citizens Trade Campaign, a long-time critic of the administration's trade objectives. The new leak follows substantial controversy surrounding the secrecy of the talks, in which some members of Congress have complained they are not being given the same access to trade documents that corporate officials receive.

"The outrageous stuff in this leaked text may well be why U.S. trade officials have been so extremely secretive about these past two years of [trade] negotiations," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch in a written statement.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has been so incensed by the lack of access as to introduce legislation requiring further disclosure. House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has gone so far as to leak a separate document from the talks on his website. Other Senators are considering writing a letter to Ron Kirk, the top trade negotiator under Obama, demanding more disclosure.

The newly leaked document is one of the most controversial of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. It addresses a broad sweep of regulations governing international investment and reveals the Obama administration's advocacy for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.

Oh, wait... He's actually fighting to give radical new powers to his obscenely wealthy "job creator" friends.

For fark's sake.

StopLurkListen: You DO know the definition of gaffe is "accidentally speaking the truth"? And that's bad, because ...?

Dimwit doesn't even know how to spell "gaff" (sic). You think he/she/it has any idea of the definition of the word?

BullBearMS: Yea, cause Obama is fighting for our jobs...

A critical document from President Barack Obama's free trade negotiations with eight Pacific nations was leaked online early Wednesday morning, revealing that the administration intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations, contradicting prior promises.

The leaked document has been posted on the website of Citizens Trade Campaign, a long-time critic of the administration's trade objectives. The new leak follows substantial controversy surrounding the secrecy of the talks, in which some members of Congress have complained they are not being given the same access to trade documents that corporate officials receive.

"The outrageous stuff in this leaked text may well be why U.S. trade officials have been so extremely secretive about these past two years of [trade] negotiations," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch in a written statement.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has been so incensed by the lack of access as to introduce legislation requiring further disclosure. House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has gone so far as to leak a separate document from the talks on his website. Other Senators are considering writing a letter to Ron Kirk, the top trade negotiator under Obama, demanding more disclosure.

The newly leaked document is one of the most controversial of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. It addresses a broad sweep of regulations governing international investment and reveals the Obama administration's advocacy for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.

Oh, wait... He's actually fighting to give radical new powers to his obscenely wealthy "job creator" friends.

Time to abandon both political parties, they're both only on the side of the 1%.

dervish16108: BullBearMS: Yea, cause Obama is fighting for our jobs...

A critical document from President Barack Obama's free trade negotiations with eight Pacific nations was leaked online early Wednesday morning, revealing that the administration intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations, contradicting prior promises.

The leaked document has been posted on the website of Citizens Trade Campaign, a long-time critic of the administration's trade objectives. The new leak follows substantial controversy surrounding the secrecy of the talks, in which some members of Congress have complained they are not being given the same access to trade documents that corporate officials receive.

"The outrageous stuff in this leaked text may well be why U.S. trade officials have been so extremely secretive about these past two years of [trade] negotiations," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch in a written statement.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has been so incensed by the lack of access as to introduce legislation requiring further disclosure. House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has gone so far as to leak a separate document from the talks on his website. Other Senators are considering writing a letter to Ron Kirk, the top trade negotiator under Obama, demanding more disclosure.

The newly leaked document is one of the most controversial of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. It addresses a broad sweep of regulations governing international investment and reveals the Obama administration's advocacy for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.

Oh, wait... He's actually fighting to give radical new powers to his obscenely wealthy "job creator" friends.

Time to abandon both political parties, they're both only on the side of the 1%.

So which Republican that claims to be a "libertarian" should we vote for?

stoli n coke: mr lawson: See folks...Trickle-Down Econ DOES work....just not for American workers.

Exactly, as long as you can find countries that have employment laws that could best be described as "I can't believe it's not slavery."

I think this is the part that pisses me off most when people proclaim "Trickle-down doesn't work". It DOES work! However, these people are actuall meaning it doesn't work for THEM. Which is correct.
All money flows (trickles) from top down whether the top is from the wealthy or from the government down to the poor. Money makes no distinction between the two. The question is how the effect from the top got the money in the first place. If from the government, it was acquired from the wealthy via taxes. Which means no additional value was created. However the multiplier effect (velocity) from the poor does create value. If from the wealthy, then value was created by way of good/services sold; however with a much lower multiplier effect namely because the capital to create the product (jobs) are not based in this country.

/this prob won't make sense

BURN!

I would hate to be the guy that Mitt Romney picks as his VP. Joe ain't holding back during the debates.

Shaggy_C: Final Senate Vote on NAFTA

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 103rd Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate
Vote Summary
Question: On Passage of the Bill (H.R.3450 )

Biden (D-DE), Yea

Remember when Obama pretended to be concerned with the loss of American manufacturing jobs to Mexico in the last campaign cycle and promised to renegotiate portions of NAFTA?

Whatever became of that?

President Barack Obama and Mexican President Felipe Calderón agreed Thursday to remove most restrictions on trucking across the U.S.-Mexico border, sparking furor from the Teamsters and raising concerns for truckers on both sides of the border - for different reasons.

The American Trucking Association praised the announcement, saying it will promote trade. The Teamsters and certain trucking companies oppose the deal, saying it sacrifices American jobs when unemployment is high so that big business can save money partly by hiring cheaper drivers.

Ah yes. Giving America's manufacturing jobs to Mexican citizens wasn't quite enough. The "job creators" also want to give America's union service economy jobs to them too.

Naturally, being owned by the obscenely wealthy, Obama is in favor of this as well. The "job creators" shouldn't be forced to pay Americans a living wage, after all.

FTA: "Swiss bank account and money socked away in the Cayman Islands as evidence he" ... is a traitor and should probably be in prison. When he is sent to prison, I hope he ends up in Reidsville, GA.

stoli n coke: So which Republican that claims to be a "libertarian" should we vote for?

So which Democrat pretending to be a liberal should we vote for?

Obama's busy prying union jobs away from teamsters and granting "radical new powers" to corporations.

hurdboy: Call center and light manufacturing jobs are what we need. Americans are amped to do those.

Better than McDonalds.

Oh, and what about all those IT jobs that get offshored? 2.5 million a year is the figure I've seen.

Guys, it doesn't matter if you question his "both sides are bad" shtick. The important thing is that he has found a way to be morally superior to both sides and he will continue to beat that drum.

elchip: hurdboy: Call center and light manufacturing jobs are what we need. Americans are amped to do those.

Better than McDonalds.

Oh, and what about all those IT jobs that get offshored? 2.5 million a year is the figure I've seen.

Ok, I think I read the figure wrong.

Still, it amounts to hundreds of thousands of IT jobs.

DarwiOdrade: BullBearMS: Yea, cause Obama is fighting for our jobs...

A critical document from President Barack Obama's free trade negotiations with eight Pacific nations was leaked online early Wednesday morning, revealing that the administration intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations, contradicting prior promises.

The leaked document has been posted on the website of Citizens Trade Campaign, a long-time critic of the administration's trade objectives. The new leak follows substantial controversy surrounding the secrecy of the talks, in which some members of Congress have complained they are not being given the same access to trade documents that corporate officials receive.

"The outrageous stuff in this leaked text may well be why U.S. trade officials have been so extremely secretive about these past two years of [trade] negotiations," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch in a written statement.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has been so incensed by the lack of access as to introduce legislation requiring further disclosure. House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has gone so far as to leak a separate document from the talks on his website. Other Senators are considering writing a letter to Ron Kirk, the top trade negotiator under Obama, demanding more disclosure.

The newly leaked document is one of the most controversial of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. It addresses a broad sweep of regulations governing international investment and reveals the Obama administration's advocacy for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.

Oh, wait... He's actually fighting to give radical new powers to his obscenely wealthy "job creator" friends.

So vote Republican!

No, I think I've seen enough of BullBears' various posts to state that his problem with Obama is that Obama is too right wing for him. My sense is that BullBear is not going to vote Republican: he considers Obama too right wing and pro-corporation.
I agree with him to some extent, but I think it is imperative to reelect Obama. Then, the real work can begin in earnest. Remember, even FDR, at times needed heavy pressure to initiate certain programs. Wasn't he the one, in fact, who once said to some advocate for ordinary people "I agree with you. Now, go out there and make me do it." or some such? It's too late for me to Google. I don't have enough brain power left.

Coco LaFemme: Joe Biden is one of the best things about the Obama administration. Choosing him as his VP was an absolutely inspired choice.

Initially, I was disappointed that Obama didn't choose Kucinich, but Biden has grown on me.

BullBearMS: stoli n coke: So which Republican that claims to be a "libertarian" should we vote for?

So which Democrat pretending to be a liberal should we vote for?

Obama's busy prying union jobs away from teamsters and granting "radical new powers" to corporations.

So vote Republican. I got it. But which Republican? Romney, Paul, Gary Johnson? Help a brother out.

Lunaville: I agree with him to some extent, but I think it is imperative to reelect Obama. Then, the real work can begin in earnest

Whereas he thinks the real work can only begin after the Republicans win because that will further the liberal agenda or something.

I'm sure Romney will create plenty of jobs here at home: HR "involuntary separation" counselors, bill collectors, foreclosure agents, moving truck rental clerks, cardboard box sellers, repo agents, pawn shop clerks...

Besides, the rich always need some extra help. Pallets full of $100 bills don't just move themselves.

stoli n coke: BullBearMS: stoli n coke: So which Republican that claims to be a "libertarian" should we vote for?

So which Democrat pretending to be a liberal should we vote for?

Obama's busy prying union jobs away from teamsters and granting "radical new powers" to corporations.

So vote Republican. I got it. But which Republican? Romney, Paul, Gary Johnson? Help a brother out.



Apparently your idea is that we only condemn these actions when the Republicans are behind them and then make excuses for the Democrats doing the same damn things when they are in power.

Perhaps you haven't heard of Dr. Jill Stein, the Green party nominee?

She wants to do crazy things like restore Glass-Steagall, extend Medicare to everyone, and restore the Civil Liberties that the two traditional parties have worked together to destroy.

Those crazy Harvard alums.

Just found this out about the Green Party:

6. Puerto Rican Independence
In 1898, Puerto Rico was invaded by the United States and has been held by the U.S. in the form of a colony ever since. In response to international pressure, in 1952, the U.S. established the "Free Associated State" status for Puerto Rico but continued to claim that Puerto Rico belongs to, yet is not a part of, the United States.

Greens support the right of the people of Puerto Rico to self-determination and independence in conformity with United Nations Resolution 1514(XV) of 1960, the release of all Puerto Rican political prisoners being held in U.S. prisons, and call for the appropriate environmental clean-up and sustainable development of Vieques and Culebra, islands that were used as firing ranges by the U.S. military. We oppose recruitment of the youth of Puerto Rico into the U.S. armed forces and their deployment to U.S. wars abroad.

Doesn't PR want to be part of the US?

And Obama's EPA is busy killing jobs.

BullBearMS: Perhaps you haven't heard of Dr. Jill Stein, the Green party nominee?

So far as I know, she's not even going to be on the ballot in my state.

I can't wait to see who Biden gets to troll in the VP debate this year. The one between him and Palin was by far the best debate I've ever seen.

Now I remember why I always thought the Greens were too far to the left for me:

Parts of the Green Party platform that I think are loony and unnecessary:

Prohibit commercial advertising targeted to children under 12 years old, as well as advertising in public places such as schools, parks, and government buildings.

Promote policies to encourage the people of the United States to watch less television, and instead to spend time with their families, friends and neighbors, and to engage in myriad other constructive, artistic or healthful pursuits.

Create a publicly-controlled "Audience Network" empowered to take airtime from commercial television and radio stations, to broadcast a variety of non-commercial cultural, political, entertainment, scientific or other high-quality programs.

So yeah. Our choices consist of a center-right party (Democrats), a party moving further to the right each day (Republicans), and the loony toons occupying both ends of the political spectrum (Greens and Libertarians).

BGates: And Obama's EPA is busy killing jobs.

Do you actually have proof of this or are you just relaying what the guy on the radio told you to say?

Mrtraveler01: loony toons occupying both ends of the political spectrum (Greens and Libertarians).

Amazing - you define supporting the arts, preventing exploitation of our children, and encouraging exercise as "loony".

Yet I'm sure you don't bat an eye when thinking of the slaughter of innocent Pakistani women and children by the hundred via illegal and unauthorized drone strikes.

Typical brainwashed American, I suppose. Your "center" is about two steps to the right of Franco.

Mrtraveler01: Now I remember why I always thought the Greens were too far to the left for me:

Parts of the Green Party platform that I think are loony and unnecessary:

I know. The Greens want to hold the bankers who destroyed our economy responsible for their actions instead of protecting them from prosecution as Obama has right from the start.

Had Obama wanted to strike real fear in the hearts of bankers, he might have appointed former special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald or some other fire-breather as his attorney general.

Instead, he chose Eric Holder, a former Clinton Justice official who, after a career in government, joined the Washington office of Covington & Burling, a top-tier law firm with an elite white-collar defense unit. The move to Covington, and back to Justice, is an example of Washington's revolving-door ritual, which, for Holder, has been lucrative--he pulled in $2.1 million as a Covington partner in 2008, and $2.5 million (including deferred compensation) when he left the firm in 2009.

Putting a Covington partner--he spent nearly a decade at the firm--in charge of Justice may have sent a signal to the financial community, whose marquee names are Covington clients. Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Deutsche Bank are among the institutions that pay for Covington's legal advice, some of it relating to matters before the Department of Justice.

Holder's was not the only face at Justice familiar to Covington clients. Lanny Breuer, who had co-chaired the white-collar defense unit at Covington with Holder, was chosen to head the criminal division at Obama's Justice. Two other Covington lawyers followed Holder into top positions, and Holder's principal deputy, James Cole, was recruited from Bryan Cave LLP, another white-shoe firm with A-list finance clients.

Holding those whose fraud and greed destroyed the economy responsible for their illegal acts instead of protecting them? Crazy talk!

Shaggy_C: Mrtraveler01: loony toons occupying both ends of the political spectrum (Greens and Libertarians).

Amazing - you define supporting the arts, preventing exploitation of our children, and encouraging exercise as "loony".

Yet I'm sure you don't bat an eye when thinking of the slaughter of innocent Pakistani women and children by the hundred via illegal and unauthorized drone strikes.

Typical brainwashed American, I suppose. Your "center" is about two steps to the right of Franco.

lol

You guys are funny.

All I've got to say is that you guys have a hell of a lot of work to do to convince enough Americans to vote Green.

Good luck with that.

So you Greens have a candidate.

Now the next step is convincing Americans to vote for her over Obama or Romney as well as to try to make some impact on Congress as well.

What is your strategy to do this? How do you guys plan to fight against the well-monied machines of the Democratic and Republican Parties?

BullBearMS: Yea, cause Obama is fighting for our jobs...

Oh, wait... He's actually fighting to give radical new powers to his obscenely wealthy "job creator" friends.

You can vote for Romney then. He not only supports this measure, but he thinks we need to sign it immediately. Do you think Romney will stop there? Doubtful.

Mrtraveler01: So you Greens have a candidate.

Now the next step is convincing Americans to vote for her over Obama or Romney as well as to try to make some impact on Congress as well.

What is your strategy to do this? How do you guys plan to fight against the well-monied machines of the Democratic and Republican Parties?

Let's look at the math here:

With two candidates, a tie would be 50-50.

But with three candidate, a tie would be 33.3-33.3-33.3

Which means that you guys need to siphon off 16.7 percent of the votes that would've gone to either Romney or Obama. That's a large number, what sound strategy do you guys have to pull a feat like this off?

I mean you guys have thought out your political strategy haven't you?

Shaggy_C: Mrtraveler01: loony toons occupying both ends of the political spectrum (Greens and Libertarians).

Amazing - you define supporting the arts, preventing exploitation of our children, and encouraging exercise as "loony".

Yet I'm sure you don't bat an eye when thinking of the slaughter of innocent Pakistani women and children by the hundred via illegal and unauthorized drone strikes.

Typical brainwashed American, I suppose. Your "center" is about two steps to the right of Franco.

He has no problem at all spending all day every day shilling for the guy who ordered the Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee to remove language that made American citizens immune to being tossed into military prisons without a trial from the NDAA.

Watch it on CSPAN: Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) I'm wondering whether the Senator is familiar with the fact that the language which precluded the application of section 1031 to American citizens was in the bill that we originally approved in the armed services committee and the Administration asked us to remove the language which says that U.S. citizens and lawful residents would not be subject to this session?

Tossing American citizens into military prisons without a trial? He's fine with that.

However, when the Greens want to hold fraudulent bankers responsible for destroying the economy instead of protecting them from the consequences of their criminal acts they are just "loony".

Mrtraveler01: All I've got to say is that you guys have a hell of a lot of work to do to convince enough Americans to vote Green.

My philosophy has and always will be to vote your conscience only when the outcome is not in doubt. A third party is not the solution; moving the Democrat party to the left is far more realistic.

/Awaits, for BullBearMS's response to his questions about the strategies the Green Party should take to make a large impact on the upcoming election.

Shaggy_C: A third party is not the solution; moving the Democrat party to the left is far more realistic.

Can they do that without losing the people toward the center and center-right (ie: Blue Dog and Reagan Democrats).

I mean liberals may disagree with them, but they still need their votes in order to be successful.

/Personally thinks a parliamentary system would work better than the train wreck we have now

BullBearMS: However, when the Greens want to hold fraudulent bankers responsible for destroying the economy instead of protecting them from the consequences of their criminal acts they are just "loony".

No, that's not loony.

Mrtraveler01: BGates: And Obama's EPA is busy killing jobs.

Do you actually have proof of this or are you just relaying what the guy on the radio told you to say?

What radio do you speak of?

Rwa2play: coeyagi: Mrtraveler01: /Awaits, for BullBearMS's response to his questions about the strategies the Green Party should take to make a large impact on the upcoming election.

They don't need strategies. Righteousness and good intentions are enough. The Nader inroads were dead ends. But I am sure a good showing (i.e., ending up on the ballot and getting 0.01% of the vote) is enough to make a concession speech of "We fought the good fight!"

Huh, Nader. Don't get me started on that farking crackpot. I blame him as much a Gore for 8 years of W.

Exactly. Which is why we should vote third party again!

/US needs a parliamentary system desperately

BGates: Mrtraveler01: BGates: And Obama's EPA is busy killing jobs.

Do you actually have proof of this or are you just relaying what the guy on the radio told you to say?

What radio do you speak of?

Location: Green River, WY

Ahhh, my mistake. I didn't know you lived in a town with only 3 radio stations within 100 miles.

/Driven through Wyoming
//I-80 is boring as hell
///Gets better when you get off I-80 toward the Tetons

Mrtraveler01: BullBearMS: However, when the Greens want to hold fraudulent bankers responsible for destroying the economy instead of protecting them from the consequences of their criminal acts they are just "loony".

No, that's not loony.

Yet you're shilling for the guy whose response to the Senate investigation showing widespread fraudulent acts on the part of the banks was to ask the bankers for more donations.

Justice's inaction regarding the big Wall Street firms is not for a lack of suspicious activity. Three different government entities exhaustively examined the practices that contributed to the financial collapse, and each has referred its findings to the department for possible criminal investigation. One such matter involved a 2007 transaction by Goldman Sachs, in which Goldman created an investment, based on mortgage-backed securities, that seemed designed to fail. Goldman allowed a client who was betting against the mortgage market to help shape the investment instrument, which was called Abacus 2007-AC1; then both Goldman and the client bet against the investment without informing other clients (whose investments were wagers on its success) how the securities included in the portfolio were selected. These uninformed clients lost more than $1 billion on the investment. In 2010, the Securities and Exchange Commission charged Goldman with securities fraud "for making materially misleading statements and omissions" in marketing the investment. The SEC, which conducts only civil litigation, referred the case to Justice for criminal investigation.

A year later, in April 2011, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Democrat Carl Levin, after a two-year inquiry, issued a fat report detailing several transactions, including Goldman's Abacus deal, that Levin and his staff believed should be investigated by Justice as possible crimes. The subcommittee made a formal referral to the department (as did the federal Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, chaired by Phil Angelides), and Levin publicly stated his view that criminal inquiry was warranted. Goldman executives, including the firm's chief executive officer, Lloyd Blankfein, started hiring defense lawyers.

Meanwhile, Obama's political operation continued to ask Wall Street for campaign money. A curious pattern developed. A Newsweek examination of campaign finance records shows that, in the weeks before and after last year's scathing Senate report, several Goldman executives and their families made large donations to Obama's Victory Fund and related entities, some of them maxing out at the highest individual donation allowed, $35,800, even though 2011 was an electoral off-year. Some of these executives were giving to Obama for the first time.

Oddly, the millionaire Wall Street defense attorney Obama appointed to head the Department of Justice hasn't indicted anyone despite multiple Congressional bodies and the SEC referring criminal cases to Obama's DOJ.

This is the reality of Obama's record with the "job creators".

hurdboy: Call center and light manufacturing jobs are what we need. Americans are amped to do those.

Its funny how Americans wont do these jobs, they were just let go from, so their previous employer can employ 3 Indian staffers instead.

I also find it amusing the idea and notion Americans arent amped for any job. What happened to bootstrappy mentality?

BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: BullBearMS: However, when the Greens want to hold fraudulent bankers responsible for destroying the economy instead of protecting them from the consequences of their criminal acts they are just "loony".

No, that's not loony.

Yet you're shilling for the guy whose response to the Senate investigation showing widespread fraudulent acts on the part of the banks was to ask the bankers for more donations.

Justice's inaction regarding the big Wall Street firms is not for a lack of suspicious activity. Three different government entities exhaustively examined the practices that contributed to the financial collapse, and each has referred its findings to the department for possible criminal investigation. One such matter involved a 2007 transaction by Goldman Sachs, in which Goldman created an investment, based on mortgage-backed securities, that seemed designed to fail. Goldman allowed a client who was betting against the mortgage market to help shape the investment instrument, which was called Abacus 2007-AC1; then both Goldman and the client bet against the investment without informing other clients (whose investments were wagers on its success) how the securities included in the portfolio were selected. These uninformed clients lost more than $1 billion on the investment. In 2010, the Securities and Exchange Commission charged Goldman with securities fraud "for making materially misleading statements and omissions" in marketing the investment. The SEC, which conducts only civil litigation, referred the case to Justice for criminal investigation.

A year later, in April 2011, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Democrat Carl Levin, after a two-year inquiry, issued a fat report detailing several transactions, including Goldman's Abacus deal, that Levin and his staff believed should be investigated by Justice as possible crimes. The subcommittee made a formal referral to the department (as did the federal Financial Crisis Inquiry ...

Alright, so how do you get the Greens elected then?

/You still haven't answered this question yet

BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: BullBearMS: However, when the Greens want to hold fraudulent bankers responsible for destroying the economy instead of protecting them from the consequences of their criminal acts they are just "loony".

No, that's not loony.

Yet you're shilling for the guy whose response to the Senate investigation showing widespread fraudulent acts on the part of the banks was to ask the bankers for more donations.

Justice's inaction regarding the big Wall Street firms is not for a lack of suspicious activity. Three different government entities exhaustively examined the practices that contributed to the financial collapse, and each has referred its findings to the department for possible criminal investigation. One such matter involved a 2007 transaction by Goldman Sachs, in which Goldman created an investment, based on mortgage-backed securities, that seemed designed to fail. Goldman allowed a client who was betting against the mortgage market to help shape the investment instrument, which was called Abacus 2007-AC1; then both Goldman and the client bet against the investment without informing other clients (whose investments were wagers on its success) how the securities included in the portfolio were selected. These uninformed clients lost more than $1 billion on the investment. In 2010, the Securities and Exchange Commission charged Goldman with securities fraud "for making materially misleading statements and omissions" in marketing the investment. The SEC, which conducts only civil litigation, referred the case to Justice for criminal investigation.

A year later, in April 2011, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Democrat Carl Levin, after a two-year inquiry, issued a fat report detailing several transactions, including Goldman's Abacus deal, that Levin and his staff believed should be investigated by Justice as possible crimes. The subcommittee made a formal referral to the department (as did the federal Financial Crisis Inquiry ...

You're preaching to the choir. Both sides bad. Vote Republican. But which one?

BullBearMS: DarwiOdrade: So vote Republican!

So stop pretending either one of them is anything other than a sold out tool of the obscenely wealthy.

[dl.dropbox.com image 640x491]

Seems to me that those obscenely wealthy of whom you speak are, by far and large, united behind the GOP. If the Democrats are equally compliant in assisting their screwing of the poor and middle class, why don't the Koch brothers and their ilk throw money at them as well.

Shaggy_C: Final Senate Vote on NAFTA

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 103rd Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate
Vote Summary
Question: On Passage of the Bill (H.R.3450 )

Biden (D-DE), Yea

So...Sarah Palin is automagically President?

For what, the third time, now...

Mrtraveler01: Alright, so how do you get the Greens elected then?

No, we should never support actual liberals. We should all just make excuses for the Democrats turning into "the other Republican party" like you do.

It's much more important that we shill for corrupt politicians who sell us out to the job creators just as long as they put a (D) behind their name.

Mrtraveler01: Parts of the Green Party platform that I think are loony and unnecessary:

Prohibit commercial advertising targeted to children under 12 years old, as well as advertising in public places such as schools, parks, and government buildings.

Promote policies to encourage the people of the United States to watch less television, and instead to spend time with their families, friends and neighbors, and to engage in myriad other constructive, artistic or healthful pursuits.

Create a publicly-controlled "Audience Network" empowered to take airtime from commercial television and radio stations, to broadcast a variety of non-commercial cultural, political, entertainment, scientific or other high-quality programs.

... Actually, that stuff sounds pretty good to me. I can certainly see why you and the vast majority of Americans don't support it.

olderbudnoweiser: Omahawg: His hair is perfect but he'll never be able to understand why no one likes him.

Here's why I don't like him:[2012patriot.files.wordpress.com image 450x489]

He was admittedly "BRAINWASHED" as a young man.

/"...according to a 1970 story that ran in the Boston Globe on the views of children in Nixon's cabinet, of which his father George was a member, Romney's views on the Vietnam War shifted with his father's. By 1970 it appeared the younger Romney was against the war effort.

Willard Mitt Romney, 23, uses his father's famous remark to show where he stands, "I think we were brainwashed," says the son of House of Housing and urban Development Secretary George Romney. "If it wasn't a political blunder to move into Vietnam, I don't know what is."
But young Romney agrees with Theodore Stans, 26, son of the Treasury Secretary, that the President's move into Cambodia was sincerely motivated."

[www.straight.com image 340x365]

VIVE LA FRANCE!

so he's consistently inconsistent?

stoli n coke: BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: BullBearMS: However, when the Greens want to hold fraudulent bankers responsible for destroying the economy instead of protecting them from the consequences of their criminal acts they are just "loony".

No, that's not loony.

Yet you're shilling for the guy whose response to the Senate investigation showing widespread fraudulent acts on the part of the banks was to ask the bankers for more donations.

Justice's inaction regarding the big Wall Street firms is not for a lack of suspicious activity. Three different government entities exhaustively examined the practices that contributed to the financial collapse, and each has referred its findings to the department for possible criminal investigation. One such matter involved a 2007 transaction by Goldman Sachs, in which Goldman created an investment, based on mortgage-backed securities, that seemed designed to fail. Goldman allowed a client who was betting against the mortgage market to help shape the investment instrument, which was called Abacus 2007-AC1; then both Goldman and the client bet against the investment without informing other clients (whose investments were wagers on its success) how the securities included in the portfolio were selected. These uninformed clients lost more than $1 billion on the investment. In 2010, the Securities and Exchange Commission charged Goldman with securities fraud "for making materially misleading statements and omissions" in marketing the investment. The SEC, which conducts only civil litigation, referred the case to Justice for criminal investigation.

A year later, in April 2011, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, chaired by Democrat Carl Levin, after a two-year inquiry, issued a fat report detailing several transactions, including Goldman's Abacus deal, that Levin and his staff believed should be investigated by Justice as possible crimes. The subcommittee made a formal referral to the department (as did the federal Financial Cr ...

Of course, it never gets brought up that perhaps the people of Levin's district should stop voting for him and and what we could do about it as citizens to get someone else to beat him in an election, but it's more like we're not being libby lib enough and Obama's farking up so vote Republican. Or Ron Paul. I got sick of it.

coeyagi: BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: Alright, so how do you get the Greens elected then?

No, we should never support actual liberals. We should all just make excuses for the Democrats turning into "the other Republican party" like you do.

It's much more important that we shill for corrupt politicians who sell us out to the job creators just as long as they put a (D) behind their name.

This is the new and improved Fark Independent™ tactic: the libs suck because they aren't libby enough. Yeah, ok, well, certainly some truth to that, but if you follow your argument logically, you're just voting for Romney by voting Green, so are you really a new Independent™ or just a cheap ripoff of the old?

Yes. Because nobody in the world is actually liberal.

All of us only pretend to oppose right wing policy when the Republicans are responsible for them yet jump to defend those very same policies when they are carried out by the Democrats like you do.

BullBearMS: All of us only pretend to oppose right wing policy when the Republicans are responsible for them yet jump to defend those very same policies when they are carried out by the Democrats like you do.

You're getting your ass beat in here, but it does still amuse me that you can't tell the difference between being stuck with the cleanup of a previous f*ckup administration and "
jumping to defend" right-wing policy.

The fact is that many of us are going to make sure Obama is re-elected. Pretty sure we wouldn't have done that for Bush.

coeyagi: BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: Alright, so how do you get the Greens elected then?

No, we should never support actual liberals. We should all just make excuses for the Democrats turning into "the other Republican party" like you do.

It's much more important that we shill for corrupt politicians who sell us out to the job creators just as long as they put a (D) behind their name.

This is the new and improved Fark Independent™ tactic: the libs suck because they aren't libby enough. Yeah, ok, well, certainly some truth to that, but if you follow your argument logically, you're just voting for Romney by voting Green, so are you really a new Independent™ or just a cheap ripoff of the old?

Nailed it. Also, wasn't BullBear whoring it up for RON PAUL earlier this year?

chiett: Well if Old Joe could have created a job for every gaff he's made the unemployment problem would already be solved.

Not bad, but needs more potatoe.

BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: Alright, so how do you get the Greens elected then?

No, we should never support actual liberals. We should all just make excuses for the Democrats turning into "the other Republican party" like you do.

It's much more important that we shill for corrupt politicians who sell us out to the job creators just as long as they put a (D) behind their name.

So then the Green party strategy is to browbeat people into voting for them?

Brilliant. Good luck with that.

Flappyhead: Also, wasn't BullBear whoring it up for RON PAUL earlier this year?

A career Republican. Amazing how Ron Paul is somehow outside of the 2-Party political spectrum. Magnets...

Linux_Yes: just like ole' bush was a uniter, not a divider. Mitt Rmoney

I'd more call him "git Rmoney". Then I would think myself clever.

/then have a beer

BullBearMS: DarwiOdrade: So vote Republican!

So stop pretending either one of them is anything other than a sold out tool of the obscenely wealthy.

So give us a solution and lead the way. I'm getting so sick of biatches like you who are full of anger, but don't do shiat to make a real difference.

"Both sides are bad! The whole system sucks! Raaaaage!"
"Ok... So what's YOUR plan?"
(crickets)

BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: Alright, so how do you get the Greens elected then?

No, we should never support actual liberals. We should all just make excuses for the Democrats turning into "the other Republican party" like you do.

It's much more important that we shill for corrupt politicians who sell us out to the job creators just as long as they put a (D) behind their name.

So your strategy to get people to vote Green is to talk down to them?

Mrtraveler01: Mrtraveler01: So you Greens have a candidate.

Now the next step is convincing Americans to vote for her over Obama or Romney as well as to try to make some impact on Congress as well.

What is your strategy to do this? How do you guys plan to fight against the well-monied machines of the Democratic and Republican Parties?

Let's look at the math here:

With two candidates, a tie would be 50-50.

But with three candidate, a tie would be 33.3-33.3-33.3

Which means that you guys need to siphon off 16.7 percent of the votes that would've gone to either Romney or Obama. That's a large number, what sound strategy do you guys have to pull a feat like this off?

I mean you guys have thought out your political strategy haven't you?

And even then, even IF a Green party candidate managed to get into the Oval Office, they'd still have to deal with Congress. There simply aren't enough liberals in Congress currently to win a vote against the Republicans and the center-right Democrats.

El Morro: BullBearMS: DarwiOdrade: So vote Republican!

So stop pretending either one of them is anything other than a sold out tool of the obscenely wealthy.

So give us a solution and lead the way. I'm getting so sick of biatches like you who are full of anger, but don't do shiat to make a real difference.

"Both sides are bad! The whole system sucks! Raaaaage!"
"Ok... So what's YOUR plan?"
(crickets)

I'm eager to find out what his plan is as well.

LordJiro: Mrtraveler01: Mrtraveler01: So you Greens have a candidate.

Now the next step is convincing Americans to vote for her over Obama or Romney as well as to try to make some impact on Congress as well.

What is your strategy to do this? How do you guys plan to fight against the well-monied machines of the Democratic and Republican Parties?

Let's look at the math here:

With two candidates, a tie would be 50-50.

But with three candidate, a tie would be 33.3-33.3-33.3

Which means that you guys need to siphon off 16.7 percent of the votes that would've gone to either Romney or Obama. That's a large number, what sound strategy do you guys have to pull a feat like this off?

I mean you guys have thought out your political strategy haven't you?

And even then, even IF a Green party candidate managed to get into the Oval Office, they'd still have to deal with Congress. There simply aren't enough liberals in Congress currently to win a vote against the Republicans and the center-right Democrats.

Yep, no way in hell you'd be able to get a Green Party congressman in states like Mississippi and Alabama.

Unless they start whoring themselves for Jesus of course.

BullBearMS: Shaggy_C: Final Senate Vote on NAFTA

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 103rd Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate
Vote Summary
Question: On Passage of the Bill (H.R.3450 )

Biden (D-DE), Yea

Remember when Obama pretended to be concerned with the loss of American manufacturing jobs to Mexico in the last campaign cycle and promised to renegotiate portions of NAFTA?

Whatever became of that?

President Barack Obama and Mexican President Felipe Calderón agreed Thursday to remove most restrictions on trucking across the U.S.-Mexico border, sparking furor from the Teamsters and raising concerns for truckers on both sides of the border - for different reasons.

The American Trucking Association praised the announcement, saying it will promote trade. The Teamsters and certain trucking companies oppose the deal, saying it sacrifices American jobs when unemployment is high so that big business can save money partly by hiring cheaper drivers.

Ah yes. Giving America's manufacturing jobs to Mexican citizens wasn't quite enough. The "job creators" also want to give America's union service economy jobs to them too.

Naturally, being owned by the obscenely wealthy, Obama is in favor of this as well. The "job creators" shouldn't be forced to pay Americans a living wage, after all.

Which is why we must vote the Mexican into office!

simplicimus: I wouldn't mind a third party, but this isn't something that can harped about for a few months every 4 years. It requires local and state groups to organize around a coherent platform, and needs to get started the day after the election.

Yeah, but that's too hard.

It's much easier to just sit online and biatch about how both sides are bad without having a detailed plan on how to fix this dilemma.

BullBearMS: So stop pretending either one of them is anything other than a sold out tool of the obscenely wealthy.



But both sides are bad, right?

Giant walls of blue text is kind of fun to scroll past on the iPad.

/Vote Republican

coeyagi: I never said that, Ray Bolger. Of course there are liberals, but most liberals I know are smart enough to know you don't piss away you're vote on a Green party candidate unless you think that the GOPer running is at least moderate / competent enough not to completely run this country into the ground if he gets elected via your "taking a chance".

Or unless you're absolutely certain that the GOP candidate is such a loser that he could never even come close to winning.. That's what I thought about Bush, so I thought it would be okay to send a message to the Dems that they are not perfect. So I voted for Nader. In Florida.

Yes, it is all my fault.

Someday, future generations of Americans will look back on us and think we were the biggest dumbasses in history for allowing the term "job creators" into our daily vocabulary.

FTA: "On day One, Mitt Romney will take action to jumpstart our economy and give job creators the incentives they need to thrive here in America," she said.

Give "job creators" incentives to thrive? What about the rest of us, eh? I'm getting really tired of their veiled "tax cuts for the rich" rhetoric. Some rebuttal. Only really reaffirms Biden's statement. Where do they FIND these people?!

The Dog Ate My Homework: Someday, future generations of Americans will look back on us and think we were the biggest dumbasses in history for allowing the term "job creators" into our daily vocabulary.

My solution is to imprint a Pavlovian response to the term. Every time someone uses it, you punch them in the face. Once pain is associated with it the usage will drop significantly(S&M aficionados being the majority of exceptions).

Veloram: FTA: "On day One, Mitt Romney will take action to jumpstart our economy and give job creators the incentives they need to thrive here in America," she said.

Give "job creators" incentives to thrive? What about the rest of us, eh? I'm getting really tired of their veiled "tax cuts for the rich" rhetoric. Some rebuttal. Only really reaffirms Biden's statement. Where do they FIND these people?!

If we don't gut regulations. eliminate minimum wage, and remove their taxes so they can have a few extra pennies' worth of profit, they're gonna hold their breath til they turn blue! They'll do it, really!

hurdboy: Call center and light manufacturing jobs are what we need. Americans are amped to do those.

Why not give the jobs back to the American people they were outsourced from 10 years ago?

I predict a weird phenomenon is going to show up soon, if it hasn't already. We're going to see the rise of the (cynically, disingenuously) "bleeding-heart" conservative, who argues for outsourcing as a human rights issue, because people in third-world countries need jobs and economic opportunities. Then, awkwardly, on the other side, liberals will have to admit that we really don't give a shiat about poor people who would rather making $4/day in a factory than $2/day farming. Of course it goes without saying that neither do conservatives, who just want to save labor costs.

Tommy Moo: I predict a weird phenomenon is going to show up soon, if it hasn't already. We're going to see the rise of the (cynically, disingenuously) "bleeding-heart" conservative, who argues for outsourcing as a human rights issue, because people in third-world countries need jobs and economic opportunities. Then, awkwardly, on the other side, liberals will have to admit that we really don't give a shiat about poor people who would rather making $4/day in a factory than $2/day farming. Of course it goes without saying that neither do conservatives, who just want to save labor costs.

The Fark Independents have already tried trotting out this talking point.

Mrtraveler01: BGates: And Obama's EPA is busy killing jobs.

Do you actually have proof of this or are you just relaying what the guy on the radio told you to say?

Of course it's the latter...in fact I could make the argument that the EPA regulations create jobs. First, companies hire people to make sure the company is in compliance, Second, the higher bar set by the regulations encourages better, cleaner technology which creates jobs and wealth.

Or we could just build coal plants without any pollution controls, that will work out great...

I have the biggest crush on Joe Biden right now.

Shaggy_C: Mrtraveler01: All I've got to say is that you guys have a hell of a lot of work to do to convince enough Americans to vote Green.

My philosophy has and always will be to vote your conscience only when the outcome is not in doubt. A third party is not the solution; moving the Democrat party to the left is far more realistic.

What is the "democrat party?' I think your mask slipped.

pretty sure I caught it here...didn't I see some RW blog/or whatever floating the line that off shoring is a good thing? the way jesus and paul revere intended or something along those lines...

Is that still being beta tested or is am radio/fox running with it?

I know the GOP propaganda wing is really doing well, so it wouldn't surprise me if they thought they could talk their disciples into this. I gotta admit I'd like to see them go with this one.

We need some sort of labor movement back in this country... There is no counter-balance. There was a day if an American company sent our jobs overseas that almost everybody would be breathing down their greedy farking necks. Now half the people defend it as..."well they have to make money too"

The democrats forgot what they use to be, but at least their is still a little bit of that. The republicans are just way too crazy for people with the money. Romney couldn't be anything other then a republican with his so called job creating ways. I am voting with the lesser of two evils...but I wish I could kick both their asses out. The billionares have gotten to both

trivial use of my dark powers: I have the biggest crush on Joe Biden right now.



Getting a real kick, etc.

/After that speech he gave the other day to the family of fallen vets and this latest zinger Joe's stock has risen pretty darn high in my book and I already viewed him as one of last few decent public servants left out there with an intact and functional heart and brain.

Mrtraveler01: simplicimus: I wouldn't mind a third party, but this isn't something that can harped about for a few months every 4 years. It requires local and state groups to organize around a coherent platform, and needs to get started the day after the election.

Yeah, but that's too hard.

It's much easier to just sit online and biatch about how both sides are bad without having a detailed plan on how to fix this dilemma.

This. Until the Greens get off their asses, come up with a coherent message, and start running/winning school boards, dog catcher, county commissioners and work their way up the line, they don't, nor should they, have a prayer in hell of doing anything on a state or national level.

farkityfarker: Agreed, but what have the Democrats done to stop or reduce outsourcing in the past 30 years?

Because actively promoting and profiting from outsourcing isn't a big deal if someone else isn't trying to stop it?

2010 - GOP filibuster prevents anti-outsourcing bill from reaching the floor.


"Republicans fought to protect tax loopholes for corporations that send our jobs overseas."

H.R. 3596: United States Call Center Worker and Consumer Protection Act

To require a publicly available a list of all employers that relocate a call center overseas and to make such companies ineligible for Federal grants or guaranteed loans and to require disclosure of the physical location of business agents engaging in customer service communications.

Weird...that last one has somehow been stuck in committee for 7 months...despite having 136 co-sponsors (I only see 4 Republicans, but that's from a visual scan).

This bill has a 4% chance of being enacted. The following factors were considered:

The sponsor is a member of the minority party. (-2%)

There is at least one cosponsor from the majority party and one cosponsor outside of the majority party. (+2%)

A cosponsor in the minority party has a high leadership score. (+3%)

A cosponsor is the ranking member of a committee to which the bill has been referred. (+9%)

quatchi: trivial use of my dark powers: I have the biggest crush on Joe Biden right now.

[i293.photobucket.com image 379x306]

Getting a real kick, etc.

/After that speech he gave the other day to the family of fallen vets and this latest zinger Joe's stock has risen pretty darn high in my book and I already viewed him as one of last few decent public servants left out there with an intact and functional heart and brain.

Hearts are for commies!

/so are brains
//patriots only need guts

James F. Campbell: BullBearMS: So stop pretending either one of them is anything other than a sold out tool of the obscenely wealthy.

[home.comcast.net image 454x340]

But both sides are bad, right?

Looks like Democrats help everyone increase income, but Republicans disproportionately benefit the richest at the expense of the poorest.

I am shocked to learn this.

HellRaisingHoosier: BURN!

I would hate to be the guy that Mitt Romney picks as his VP. Joe ain't holding back during the debates.

Hopefully, he won't pick a high-functioning retard. Then Joe will have to hold back AGAIN.

:debate rehearsals:

"Senator O'Biden."
"Senator O'Biden."
"Senator O'Biden."

:actual debate:

"Can I call ya Joe?"

But she managed to do it anyway.

BullBear and Mrtraveler:

You guys are fighting over the green party's presidential candidate, which is so crazy it's pointless. If you want to truly build a left wing, progressive party in this country, the only way to do so is to start small. Run greens for state rep in solid D districts where the primary is the general election. A state rep race in Missouri usually costs less than $100,000, and can feasibly be done in a lot of places for less than $50,000.

Once you've seeded a few state legislatures with multiple Green reps, you'll start being a voting bloc that will actually have to be taken seriously. One person cannot run an entire movement. But once you have four or five state reps who can actually swing a vote in a tight enough legislature, then the party becomes something that has to be respected. And a few high profile power moves will continue to raise the profile and attract more support.

Look at what happened to Ross Perot after his campaign flopped - any momentum he'd built up died with his candidacy.