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(Deadspin)   Win: Raul Mondesi, Jr. hits game-tying HR in the bottom of the 10th inning. Fail: He doesn't touch home plate   (deadspin.com) divider line 86
    More: Fail, Raul Mondesi, home -plate, home runs, fly tying  
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3051 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Jun 2012 at 12:32 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-26 12:41:24 PM
that's a mistake he'll only make once.
i396.photobucket.com
Once.
 
2012-06-26 12:54:09 PM
My first thought: "Raul Mondesi? He's still playing? He must be ancient by now!" Then of course I saw the "Jr." attached to the name.

This will be embarrassing, and I'm sure his teammates will mock him endlessly about it. But thank god it occurred in a relatively meaningless minor league game. You can rest assured that he will learn an important lesson from this and make damn certain he hits that plate in the future.
 
2012-06-26 01:01:44 PM

Supes: My first thought: "Raul Mondesi? He's still playing? He must be ancient by now!" Then of course I saw the "Jr." attached to the name.

This will be embarrassing, and I'm sure his teammates will mock him endlessly about it. But thank god it occurred in a relatively meaningless minor league game. You can rest assured that he will learn an important lesson from this and make damn certain he hits that plate in the future.


I would love to see this happen to somebody in Game 7 of the World Series.
 
2012-06-26 01:09:05 PM
What the hell did he think home plate is there for? Just a guide for balls and strikes? How can you get to that level, WITH YOUR DAD AS A FORMER MLB PLAYER, and not know you have to touch the plate?
 
2012-06-26 01:12:27 PM
I remember hearing a story about Marv throneberry.He hit a triple and
was called out for not touching 2nd base.Casey Stengel came out to argue,
and his 1st base coach said 'Casey he missed 1st base too.'

/ reckless abandon
 
2012-06-26 01:12:47 PM

Supes: My first thought: "Raul Mondesi? He's still playing? He must be ancient by now!" Then of course I saw the "Jr." attached to the name.


You should try being a Dodger fan. Jerry Hairston, Tony Gwynn, and Ivan de Jesus are all current Dodgers. Not to mention the offspring of Andy Van Slyke and Tom Gordon.
 
2012-06-26 01:16:50 PM
his dad was pretty good
 
2012-06-26 01:24:35 PM
Google "Merkle's boner". No, seriously.
 
2012-06-26 01:27:00 PM
Wait...was that a pitch with no one in the batter's box, or did the pitcher appeal to the home plate umpire? It looked like the pitcher waited until the umpire had his mask on, and was behind the catcher.
 
2012-06-26 01:27:27 PM

bonefolder: Google "Merkle's boner". No, seriously.


And you know, the Cubs haven't won the World Series since then. Make of it what you will.
 
2012-06-26 01:27:35 PM

Supes: My first thought: "Raul Mondesi? He's still playing? He must be ancient by now!" Then of course I saw the "Jr." attached to the name.


ha. same thougth i had initially.


tooeasy: his dad was pretty good


but he could have been better.....he had that cannon arm -- didn't he get a tattoo of a rifle on his arm -- and set LA on fire for a year or two but then he kinda fizzled.
 
2012-06-26 01:27:45 PM

bonefolder: Google "Merkle's boner". No, seriously.


A somewhat more similar situation is Robin Ventura's walk-off grand slam single, but they still won that game.
 
2012-06-26 01:28:40 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Wait...was that a pitch with no one in the batter's box, or did the pitcher appeal to the home plate umpire? It looked like the pitcher waited until the umpire had his mask on, and was behind the catcher.


Looked to me it was an appeal, but no one involved knew how to handle an appeal at home.
 
2012-06-26 01:31:09 PM

DeWayne Mann: Sin_City_Superhero: Wait...was that a pitch with no one in the batter's box, or did the pitcher appeal to the home plate umpire? It looked like the pitcher waited until the umpire had his mask on, and was behind the catcher.

Looked to me it was an appeal, but no one involved knew how to handle an appeal at home.


That catcher needs to work on his GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL sign.
 
2012-06-26 01:32:52 PM

beantowndog: DeWayne Mann: Sin_City_Superhero: Wait...was that a pitch with no one in the batter's box, or did the pitcher appeal to the home plate umpire? It looked like the pitcher waited until the umpire had his mask on, and was behind the catcher.

Looked to me it was an appeal, but no one involved knew how to handle an appeal at home.

That catcher needs to work on his GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL sign.


This. Even I was getting anxious picturing the catcher going "throw me the ball! throw me the ball!"
 
2012-06-26 01:33:39 PM
aaaaaaand this is why Baseball is retarded.
 
2012-06-26 01:35:26 PM
Does anyone know the actual rules involved here and why he was considered out and didn't just have to come out and touch home plate? It looked like they had to throw a pitch or something before the ump would call him out - what gives?
 
2012-06-26 01:37:35 PM

rickythepenguin: Supes: My first thought: "Raul Mondesi? He's still playing? He must be ancient by now!" Then of course I saw the "Jr." attached to the name.

ha. same thougth i had initially.


tooeasy: his dad was pretty good

but he could have been better.....he had that cannon arm -- didn't he get a tattoo of a rifle on his arm -- and set LA on fire for a year or two but then he kinda fizzled.


yeah, pretty good. more natural talent than production, but, without knowing the details definitively, i take everything that happened in the '90s with a grain of salt. he was one of those guys that was more fun to watch than to read about in the paper- the skills were obvious, but he never had the day-to-day consistancy that thetrue stars of the game possess

/just heard on bbtonite that bautista has passed hamilton in hr. hamilton's another guy who's more impressive in person than on the stat sheet
 
2012-06-26 01:39:26 PM

JonQDoe: Does anyone know the actual rules involved here and why he was considered out and didn't just have to come out and touch home plate? It looked like they had to throw a pitch or something before the ump would call him out - what gives?


Dang it, I just typed up the relevant rule and then was like "meh, not gonna bore everyone with the rules."

7.10(d):[Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when-] He fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged.

Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.


It's basically the same idea as when a player goes early on a tag play.
 
2012-06-26 01:46:28 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Wait...was that a pitch with no one in the batter's box, or did the pitcher appeal to the home plate umpire? It looked like the pitcher waited until the umpire had his mask on, and was behind the catcher.



I'm not sure, but i believe there's a rule about when the batter leaves the field of play he can't go back and retouch home. perhaps it is the college rule.

but i believe that's why in baseball a team will waaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiit until the batter (or baserunner) goes to the dugout to toss the ball to whatever base was missed or as apparently here, throw to home.
 
2012-06-26 01:46:32 PM

DeWayne Mann: JonQDoe: Does anyone know the actual rules involved here and why he was considered out and didn't just have to come out and touch home plate? It looked like they had to throw a pitch or something before the ump would call him out - what gives?

Dang it, I just typed up the relevant rule and then was like "meh, not gonna bore everyone with the rules."

7.10(d):[Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when-] He fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged.

Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.

It's basically the same idea as when a player goes early on a tag play.


So, a little blame goes to the next hitter for not jumping into the box? I wonder if the hitter could swing at the "pitch" when the pitcher threw it in to the catcher, if he were in the box.

/Yes, he could, provided that the ball was pitched properly and the pitcher didn't step off the mound to throw home. Would have to check the replay to see if this is the case. If the hitter were in the box, the catcher'd probably come running out to the mound to get the ball.
 
2012-06-26 01:46:40 PM

DeWayne Mann: bonefolder: Google "Merkle's boner". No, seriously.

A somewhat more similar situation is Robin Ventura's walk-off grand slam single, but they still won that game.


We only needed the one run. Of course that just set us up for the Kenny Rogers *walk*-off in the next game.

/rage
 
2012-06-26 01:47:31 PM

JonQDoe: Does anyone know the actual rules involved here and why he was considered out and didn't just have to come out and touch home plate? It looked like they had to throw a pitch or something before the ump would call him out - what gives?


You have to do what's called an appeal. The umpire doesn't signal whether or not someone touched a base. If he missed it and you don't notice and continue on, well tough shiat. If you think he missed the base, you can appeal to an umpire to try to get the runner ruled out. Why did he have to touch the rubber first? Because a homerun is a dead ball and the ball has to be made "live" in order to appeal. The pitcher going to the rubber makes this a live ball.
 
2012-06-26 01:49:12 PM

FreakinB: DeWayne Mann: bonefolder: Google "Merkle's boner". No, seriously.

A somewhat more similar situation is Robin Ventura's walk-off grand slam single, but they still won that game.

We only needed the one run. Of course that just set us up for the Kenny Rogers *walk*-off in the next game.

/rage


Obligatory AUGH.
 
2012-06-26 01:50:58 PM

Dafatone: So, a little blame goes to the next hitter for not jumping into the box? I wonder if the hitter could swing at the "pitch" when the pitcher threw it in to the catcher, if he were in the box.

/Yes, he could, provided that the ball was pitched properly and the pitcher didn't step off the mound to throw home. Would have to check the replay to see if this is the case. If the hitter were in the box, the catcher'd probably come running out to the mound to get the ball.


My guess would be that, assuming the umpire knows the rule (which, based on the video, I'm not sure he did), since it's not a "play", the catcher wouldn't have to set up in the catcher's box and could simply stand on the plate. I suppose the batter could still swing, but ouch.

Then again, the pitcher CAN be charged with a balk on an appeal, so...hmmm...

I'm a little stumped, actually.
 
2012-06-26 01:52:19 PM

exick: The umpire doesn't signal whether or not someone touched a base. If he missed it and you don't notice and continue on, well tough shiat.



yeah....one of those things you notice moreso at the game than on TV is how intently the umpire watches the baserunner / batter touch the bag, particularly 3rd on running plays. when a guy has a full head of steam rounding second, you'll notice the 3B ump (and often the 3B coach) basically staring at the bag.

either way, they don't signal if it was touched or not. the only time you find out is when the pitcher tosses the ball to third and then the ump makes the call.


/on that note, still like the old school move 1B umps use on appeals for checked swing; slowly walking away means "no swing"
 
2012-06-26 01:57:36 PM

DeWayne Mann: JonQDoe: Does anyone know the actual rules involved here and why he was considered out and didn't just have to come out and touch home plate? It looked like they had to throw a pitch or something before the ump would call him out - what gives?

Dang it, I just typed up the relevant rule and then was like "meh, not gonna bore everyone with the rules."

7.10(d):[Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when-] He fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged.

Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.

It's basically the same idea as when a player goes early on a tag play.


exick: JonQDoe: Does anyone know the actual rules involved here and why he was considered out and didn't just have to come out and touch home plate? It looked like they had to throw a pitch or something before the ump would call him out - what gives?

You have to do what's called an appeal. The umpire doesn't signal whether or not someone touched a base. If he missed it and you don't notice and continue on, well tough shiat. If you think he missed the base, you can appeal to an umpire to try to get the runner ruled out. Why did he have to touch the rubber first? Because a homerun is a dead ball and the ball has to be made "live" in order to appeal. The pitcher going to the rubber makes this a live ball.


Thanks to both of you, most of that makes perfect sense.

exick: I'm surprised a ball can become "live" without a batter in the box. Is the ball considered live unless a batter specifically asks for time?
 
2012-06-26 01:57:53 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: Wait...was that a pitch with no one in the batter's box, or did the pitcher appeal to the home plate umpire? It looked like the pitcher waited until the umpire had his mask on, and was behind the catcher.


Play is dead on a home run. They had to get set (pitcher, catcher, and umpire) to resume play. Then he stepped off the rubber (note the back foot stepping backwards) and threw it to the catcher to touch home plate and appeal. I don't think any of the catcher, pitcher, or umpire were exactly sure what was needed to be done. Though I thought the batter needed to be set as well.

Dafatone: This. Even I was getting anxious picturing the catcher going "throw me the ball! throw me the ball!"


I believe the pitcher did it right. Resume play, then throw to the catcher.
 
2012-06-26 01:58:16 PM

DeWayne Mann: Then again, the pitcher CAN be charged with a balk on an appeal, so...hmmm...

I'm a little stumped, actually.


It's all judgment in that case. If the pitcher throws the ball in order to appeal while still on the rubber, that's perfectly legal provided that he doesn't make motions associated with pitching. The batter could certainly swing at the ball, but that doesn't make it a play. The umpire makes the determination on whether or not something is a legal pitch. The umpire also determines if it's a balk, which is why it's recommended to remove all doubt and step off the rubber before throwing to a base for an appeal.
 
2012-06-26 02:02:21 PM

exick: It's all judgment in that case.


Yeah, that's essentially the conclusion I came to.
 
2012-06-26 02:02:47 PM

JonQDoe: exick: I'm surprised a ball can become "live" without a batter in the box. Is the ball considered live unless a batter specifically asks for time?


After a dead ball, the umpire calls "Play" once the pitcher has the ball and is on the rubber. No batter is required. That doesn't necessarily mean that the pitcher can pitch at that point, just that play has resumed.
 
2012-06-26 02:02:50 PM
How does that look in a play-by-play?

Raul Mondesi homers on a fly ball to right field. X scores. Raul Mondesi out at home

?
 
2012-06-26 02:05:35 PM

Dafatone: So, a little blame goes to the next hitter for not jumping into the box? I wonder if the hitter could swing at the "pitch" when the pitcher threw it in to the catcher, if he were in the box.


It wasn't a pitch. The pitcher stepped off the rubber once the umpire signalled play was live. At 50 seconds you can clearly see him step his back foot off the rubber.
 
2012-06-26 02:05:41 PM
For all the crap umpires get, props to this guy. He was where he should be, paying attention. And an attaboy for the catcher to the presence of mind to see it too
 
2012-06-26 02:07:12 PM

machoprogrammer: How does that look in a play-by-play?

Raul Mondesi homers on a fly ball to right field. X scores. Raul Mondesi out at home

?


It's a triple, with Mondesi out at home.
 
2012-06-26 02:12:20 PM

machoprogrammer: How does that look in a play-by-play?

Raul Mondesi homers on a fly ball to right field. X scores. Raul Mondesi out at home

?


Mondesi gets a triple and an RBI, then put out at home. Similar to when a batter gets a single when he is thrown out trying to get a double.
 
2012-06-26 02:14:35 PM
Also, if a batter enters the box and and while the pitcher has at least one foot on the rubber, if the batter calls for time and the umpire grants time and if the pitcher throws a pitch while the umpired calls time, if the batter is within the batter's box while time is called and the pitch was thrown, the batter is entitled to first base. if the batter is outside of the box it is considered a balk and not only does the batter get first base, but as a balk, all runners advance one base. if however the pitch is a wild pitch or passed ball, then the batter gets first base but no balk can be called due to a dead ball being outside of the field of play.
 
2012-06-26 02:16:45 PM

rickythepenguin: Also, if a batter enters the box and and while the pitcher has at least one foot on the rubber, if the batter calls for time and the umpire grants time and if the pitcher throws a pitch while the umpired calls time, if the batter is within the batter's box while time is called and the pitch was thrown, the batter is entitled to first base. if the batter is outside of the box it is considered a balk and not only does the batter get first base, but as a balk, all runners advance one base. if however the pitch is a wild pitch or passed ball, then the batter gets first base but no balk can be called due to a dead ball being outside of the field of play.


Stop copying & pasting Yahoo Answers.
 
2012-06-26 02:21:14 PM
Did you notice how long it took him to circle the bases, especially between second and home? Deserves to be called out for hot doggin'.
 
2012-06-26 02:22:36 PM

crzytxn: Did you notice how long it took him to circle the bases, especially between second and home? Deserves to be called out for hot doggin'.


Yeah, when I first watched it, I assumed he was going to be called out for leaving the field before coming anywhere near home. Was actually surprised when he came back on screen.
 
2012-06-26 02:22:55 PM
I wonder if he's juicing like his old man?
 
2012-06-26 02:25:45 PM

DeWayne Mann: Then again, the pitcher CAN be charged with a balk on an appeal, so...hmmm...


Not in this case. A balk, by definition, is an attempt to deceive a runner. But the bases are empty.
 
2012-06-26 02:27:09 PM

buckeyebrain: DeWayne Mann: Then again, the pitcher CAN be charged with a balk on an appeal, so...hmmm...

Not in this case. A balk, by definition, is an attempt to deceive a runner. But the bases are empty.


And the batter didn't come to the plate either. The whole discussion was more of a general question: can a batter swing at an appeal pitch?
 
2012-06-26 02:34:24 PM

DeWayne Mann: The whole discussion was more of a general question: can a batter swing at an appeal pitch?


The umpire has to know while that play is happening that one of the managers is getting tossed.
 
2012-06-26 02:40:16 PM

DeWayne Mann: buckeyebrain: DeWayne Mann: Then again, the pitcher CAN be charged with a balk on an appeal, so...hmmm...

Not in this case. A balk, by definition, is an attempt to deceive a runner. But the bases are empty.

And the batter didn't come to the plate either. The whole discussion was more of a general question: can a batter swing at an appeal pitch?


It's not a pitch, pitcher steps off the rubber before throwing the ball to the catcher who has already told the ump he's appealing.

So, no, you can't swing at it.
 
2012-06-26 02:46:38 PM
Good to see that they're starting 'em on Brewer Baseball early in the organization. I has a sad...
 
2012-06-26 02:52:26 PM

DoBeDoBeDo: DeWayne Mann: buckeyebrain: DeWayne Mann: Then again, the pitcher CAN be charged with a balk on an appeal, so...hmmm...

Not in this case. A balk, by definition, is an attempt to deceive a runner. But the bases are empty.

And the batter didn't come to the plate either. The whole discussion was more of a general question: can a batter swing at an appeal pitch?

It's not a pitch, pitcher steps off the rubber before throwing the ball to the catcher who has already told the ump he's appealing.

So, no, you can't swing at it.


Ok, again, here's how the discussion started:

Dafatone: I wonder if the hitter could swing at the "pitch" when the pitcher threw it in to the catcher, if he were in the box.

/Yes, he could, provided that the ball was pitched properly and the pitcher didn't step off the mound to throw home. Would have to check the replay to see if this is the case. If the hitter were in the box, the catcher'd probably come running out to the mound to get the ball.


You've failed to explain why the batter cannot physically swing at the appeal throw.
 
2012-06-26 02:56:48 PM
We just moved to Helena and went to our first game here last week. There' nothing like minor league ball to produce some strange plays.

Like: the runner breaks from first, catcher tries to nail him at second, ball slips in catcher's hand and describes a long slow arc into right field between first and second base.

Batter pops a high fly ball up towards the mound. Pitcher studies it, backs off. Catcher charges out, sees the rest of the infield approaching, backs off. First and second basemen back off. Third baseman saves the day with a diving catch on the first base side of the mound. Thank goodness, the batter was running and was almost to second base by the time the catch was made. Darn near got a stand up double on a ball that didn't go farther than the front of the mound.
 
2012-06-26 02:59:34 PM

WyDave: Like: the runner breaks from first, catcher tries to nail him at second, ball slips in catcher's hand and describes a long slow arc into right field between first and second base.


Shoot, that just happened in the majors. Let me see if I can find it.
 
2012-06-26 03:03:07 PM

DeWayne Mann: WyDave: Like: the runner breaks from first, catcher tries to nail him at second, ball slips in catcher's hand and describes a long slow arc into right field between first and second base.

Shoot, that just happened in the majors. Let me see if I can find it.


http://msti.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/bobby_wilson_throw.gif
 
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