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(Some Guy)   Captain's Log of the Prometheus: "Weyland Corporation must not give a crap about this mission since they hired Insane Clown Posse to be our science team"   (larrycorreia.wordpress.com) divider line 491
    More: Amusing, Insane Clown Posse, Prometheus, Idris Elba, Charlize Theron, last things, Uh Huh, Michael Fassbender, Noomi Rapace  
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11478 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 26 Jun 2012 at 3:06 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-26 05:32:04 PM  
I like origin stories. They explain things that make prior exposure to the content easier to understand.
I like the Alien franchise. Xenomorph goodness right there... granted I usually only consider Alien and Aliens in this.

Prometheus has wonderful visuals/aesthetics/designs/etc, a few good bits of acting.
It had outright shiat for writing. Dialog, plot, character motivations, high-school level science was not 'confusing', it was pants on head retarded. Wait, scratch that, even mentally challenged/disabled people can do better than this crap. It was bad.

I should've gone to see Brave.
 
2012-06-26 05:32:06 PM  

Funbags: Ed Grubermann: Too bad they couldn't have made those helmets out of something you could see through.

You can distinguish between them in close ups, but in any wider shots, or from the side/back you wouldn't see enough facial detail.


Um, no. I could tell who was who just fine. Did you have a problem when Mr Tentacle Rape and Mad Max put their helmets back on? It doesn't wash. It's stupid.

And that's the big problem I have with the movie: everybody had to be stupid for it to work.
 
2012-06-26 05:33:37 PM  
Well written, good snark, and very thorough.
 
2012-06-26 05:37:57 PM  
Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?
 
2012-06-26 05:38:50 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Shostie: scottydoesntknow: Why would they cut that out?

Time.

I understand that, but if it's actually critical to the plot, why would you cut it out?

Like when they cut out the story of Ripley's daughter in Aliens. The one about how she wanted to see her daughter (promised to be home on her 11th birthday), but 67 years had passed and her daughter was already dead. That story gave the entire motivation for why Ripley cared so much for Newt/why she risked her life to save the kid. Otherwise you're wondering why Ripley even cared about some kid she met in a dirty air duct.


Basic human empathy?
 
2012-06-26 05:42:29 PM  

justtray: Another assumption on the planet. I thought it was the alien world and that was their way of explaining how the outbreak occurred. Maybe that alien wanted to be a Martyr and didn't believe in genocide so sabotaged the installation.


What the hell? Why would you assume that? I thought it was obvious that it was Earth. The ship is leaving and one dude is left behind, followed by a montage of the guy's cells breaking down and seeding the water and a movie about humanity's birth via aliens.

The translation is great, but it doesn't explain why he then ripped the head off the android and killed the rest. In fact, it only adds to the confusing motive of the alien that we never really find out

That's the point of the open ending. They don't know why the Engineers wanted to kill humanity and they're going to find out.

I thought both points were made very clearly in the film.
 
2012-06-26 05:43:57 PM  
telephone: Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?

To be fair, it was a cute, killer alien. Kane, the XO of a billion/trillion dollar ore and mining ship, farking around with creepy look alien egg is up there. Or the ALIEN not ripping Ripley to shreds when it blocked her way to the shuttle. Or The captain and XO both going on an away team, after leaving the Nos alone in orbit with no crew. Or a host of other nitpicks, that aren't plot holes, but are valid things that are done to move the story along.
 
2012-06-26 05:44:23 PM  

telephone: Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?


Yes, and let's look at that scene. Until the Alien drops down to kill him, they think they're dealing with something the size of the chest burster. After they piss themselves with the cat red herring, they went on auto-pilot (as people can do in stressful situations) and, well, we see what that got them. It was a completely believable episode of post-stress brain fart.
 
2012-06-26 05:45:35 PM  

Cinaed: I like origin stories. They explain things that make prior exposure to the content easier to understand.
I like the Alien franchise. Xenomorph goodness right there... granted I usually only consider Alien and Aliens in this.

Prometheus has wonderful visuals/aesthetics/designs/etc, a few good bits of acting.
It had outright shiat for writing. Dialog, plot, character motivations, high-school level science was not 'confusing', it was pants on head retarded. Wait, scratch that, even mentally challenged/disabled people can do better than this crap. It was bad.

I should've gone to see Brave.


As you should. AVP movies are in a completely different universe. It kinda makes the whole "Oh God, we can't let it get to Earth" in the rest of the movies more nonsensical than it is.

Call it hubris, but the idea that the Aliens could take out the entire population of Earth with nothing but facehuggers and Xenomorphs is stretching credulity.

The one is scary in Alien because it's just one, and it's picking them off. It's Michael Myers/Jason/Freddy in Space.

Aliens have at most 157(since Newt somehow survived) Xenomorphs versus the small marine squad.

Alien 3 was a return to one picking them off, and Aliens 4 was, well, let's not bother with that one too much...

Even if a Queen managed to land undetected on Earth and start pumping out eggs, at some point "protocols"(i.e. nuke the area) that stop the spread of contagion would be enacted.

Zombie plagues are more believable than xenomorph horde fears, acid blood included.
 
2012-06-26 05:47:00 PM  

justtray: So you just assume they were running from their own. Why do you assume that? That's a plot hole. Especially with the pile of dead bodies. Didn't seem like a psychopathic killer alien would group up a bunch of dead bodies. But we can't know, because the plot is missing that 'hole' you might say.

Another assumption on the planet. I thought it was the alien world and that was their way of explaining how the outbreak occurred. Maybe that alien wanted to be a Martyr and didn't believe in genocide so sabotaged the installation. Yet another plot hole that you just make assumptions on because you're not a critical, intelligent individual. You think whatever your head made up is the only answer.

The translation is great, but it doesn't explain why he then ripped the head off the android and killed the rest. In fact, it only adds to the confusing motive of the alien that we never really find out.

Gotta love being told you don't know what a plot hole is by people who literally make up their own facts in their heads to fill said plot holes and expect everyone else to come to the same, unsupported conclusions. Thank god you kids don't have any real say in movie production. Your ignorance on the topic is unparalleled.


You are adorable, you know that? I don't think I've ever met someone so enthusiastically dedicated to missing the point. I mean, if you want movies to be a completely passive experience where everything is just handed to you, I guess that's your prerogative. I prefer to watch movies that spark my imagination, which is exactly what Prometheus did. Is my version of unexplained events the "right" version? How the fark should I know? I never said it was. But the fact that you can come up with alternate explanations for the same events is what makes discussing the movie interesting. Was it Earth or another planet? I don't know, but it's interesting to talk about either possibility. You look at something that could have multiple explanations and call it a "plot hole", I call it "interesting writing."

I'm curious, do you dislike movies like Pulp Fiction or Ronin where they have major plot devices that are never explained?
 
2012-06-26 05:47:48 PM  

telephone: Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?


The funny thing is, that's just about the only scene in "Alien" where I roll my eyes at the decisions made. They're in a spaceship carrying ore, and it's raining? Sure, it's great for atmosphere, but it just makes no sense.

I'm sure someone will give me a reason for it, though.
 
2012-06-26 05:50:38 PM  

meat0918: Alien 3 was a return to one picking them off, and Aliens 4 was, well, let's not bother with that one too much...


There was an Alien 4? You're making that up.
 
2012-06-26 05:51:07 PM  

Wayne 985: That's the point of the open ending. They don't know why the Engineers wanted to kill humanity and they're going to find out.

I thought both points were made very clearly in the film.


Indeed, that's why I'm looking forward to the next two films. They get to explore the motivations behind the Engineers more and, since Shaw is on a ship with an uber-cryopod, it can be set before, during, or even after the events of the Alien movies.
 
2012-06-26 05:51:28 PM  
theorellior: telephone: Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?

The funny thing is, that's just about the only scene in "Alien" where I roll my eyes at the decisions made. They're in a spaceship carrying ore, and it's raining? Sure, it's great for atmosphere, but it just makes no sense.

I'm sure someone will give me a reason for it, though.


They killed the Alien with light and rain too BTW. Which begs the question, where did they store all the water to get Ripley back to the inner colonies?
 
2012-06-26 05:53:06 PM  

theorellior: telephone: Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?

The funny thing is, that's just about the only scene in "Alien" where I roll my eyes at the decisions made. They're in a spaceship carrying ore, and it's raining? Sure, it's great for atmosphere, but it just makes no sense.

I'm sure someone will give me a reason for it, though.


Ore has liquid in it, and it has to go somewhere.

/ tada!
 
2012-06-26 05:54:02 PM  

theorellior: One of the big disappointments was that the Space Jockey wasn't an elephant-headed alien dude with prominent ribs, just a superhuman in organic, ribbed, elephant-headed armor. And there was a specific point where I gave up and decided it wasn't up to snuff. After a long convoluted scene in which Noomi Rapace manages to give herself an alien abortion, IT'S NEVER MENTIONED BY ANYONE. She stumbles in, all bloody and shaking, on Weyland, David and various red shirts, and nobody says, "What just happened?" and she doesn't say, "Oh, I just left a horrible alien squid fetus in your surgical pod, you might want to look into that." No, David just gives her a clean robe and we get some fountain of youth woo-woo dialogue. WTF?


So I wasn't the only one that thought this scene was odd.
 
2012-06-26 05:54:30 PM  
If I am remembering the sequence when David is looking at the replay of the engineers going into hibernation. You see Earth and then lines come out of Earth to all these other planets. It made me think Earth was going to be some kind of starting/jumping off point for whatever they planned on doing with the black goo. They intended to go to Earth and use the goo on us but were prevented from doing so.

I also think the engineers are afraid of us because we are full of pathogens. The scanner showed them to be pathogen free. David was asked to say who we are and that we have been looking for them. David probably started to say we are from this planet called Earth located in this area of space...

Engineer: OH CRAP... Kill them all... kill them quick...
 
2012-06-26 05:54:41 PM  

theorellior: telephone: Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?

The funny thing is, that's just about the only scene in "Alien" where I roll my eyes at the decisions made. They're in a spaceship carrying ore, and it's raining? Sure, it's great for atmosphere, but it just makes no sense.

I'm sure someone will give me a reason for it, though.


It's just how things work a century in the future. You wouldn't want to be the only interstellar corporation without a rainy chain room in your refinery, would you?
 
2012-06-26 05:55:07 PM  

theorellior: telephone: Remember that scene in "Alien" when Harry Dean Stanton spent five minutes looking for a cat by himself, even though there was a killer alien on the loose?

The funny thing is, that's just about the only scene in "Alien" where I roll my eyes at the decisions made. They're in a spaceship carrying ore, and it's raining? Sure, it's great for atmosphere, but it just makes no sense.

I'm sure someone will give me a reason for it, though.


Condensation.
 
2012-06-26 05:56:57 PM  
Teufelaffe: Wayne 985: That's the point of the open ending. They don't know why the Engineers wanted to kill humanity and they're going to find out.

I thought both points were made very clearly in the film.

Indeed, that's why I'm looking forward to the next two films. They get to explore the motivations behind the Engineers more and, since Shaw is on a ship with an uber-cryopod, it can be set before, during, or even after the events of the Alien movies.


There a lot of hate because of that. This was David/Shaw/Weylands story. We were only showed what happened to them, and how it effected them. Some people are really up in arms because we don't know what happened 200 years ago on the moon, or what the guy was doing in stasis, or what the plan of the prologue was, or how the goo works.

Ultimately, it didn't matter. It's what happened to the characters, but it isn't important to their story. Not yet. The whole movie is things going horribly wrong and their hubris, arrogant assumptions being crushed. When they finally repent for their sins, they blast off in search of the answers to why.

All structured around allegory, allusion and homages to ALIEN and 2001 just to mention a few.

So, yeah, works for me. Even if some of the dialogue and plot mechanics were a tad out of balance at times. You got Fifield and Milburn, but then you also have the scene between David and Holloway. Thats where the movie failed, mixing the hard stuff with the popcorn flick and trying to be both.
 
2012-06-26 05:57:49 PM  

justtray: As I mentioned, I still enjoyed it, but as far as movie writing goes, it was very poor and lazy. I hope they do much better with the sequel.


I enjoyed it too, but I agree it was not a very good movie. The more I think about it the dumber it gets.

However, I have seen the end of Lost. If you're hoping it'll get better with a sequel -- it won't.
 
2012-06-26 05:59:57 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: It was Asshole Geologist, and you weren't supposed to care about him, you were supposed to care about the people on the ship that he's potentially going to kill if he doesn't get stopped.

Except that's the point everyone's making. The characters were so one-dimensional that you didn't care who lived or died. Just based on the stupid actions of every single crew member, I wanted them all to die by the end. I would've been happy with Fassbender stranded alone on the planet just wandering around

naked.
 
2012-06-26 06:02:11 PM  

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: justtray: So you just assume they were running from their own. Why do you assume that? That's a plot hole. Especially with the pile of dead bodies. Didn't seem like a psychopathic killer alien would group up a bunch of dead bodies. But we can't know, because the plot is missing that 'hole' you might say.

Another assumption on the planet. I thought it was the alien world and that was their way of explaining how the outbreak occurred. Maybe that alien wanted to be a Martyr and didn't believe in genocide so sabotaged the installation. Yet another plot hole that you just make assumptions on because you're not a critical, intelligent individual. You think whatever your head made up is the only answer.

The translation is great, but it doesn't explain why he then ripped the head off the android and killed the rest. In fact, it only adds to the confusing motive of the alien that we never really find out.

Gotta love being told you don't know what a plot hole is by people who literally make up their own facts in their heads to fill said plot holes and expect everyone else to come to the same, unsupported conclusions. Thank god you kids don't have any real say in movie production. Your ignorance on the topic is unparalleled.

You are adorable, you know that? I don't think I've ever met someone so enthusiastically dedicated to missing the point. I mean, if you want movies to be a completely passive experience where everything is just handed to you, I guess that's your prerogative. I prefer to watch movies that spark my imagination, which is exactly what Prometheus did. Is my version of unexplained events the "right" version? How the fark should I know? I never said it was. But the fact that you can come up with alternate explanations for the same events is what makes discussing the movie interesting. Was it Earth or another planet? I don't know, but it's interesting to talk about either possibility. You look at something that could have multiple explanations and ca ...


Which is exactly why everyone calls you and anyone else who thinks this was a thinker movie, a moron. They weren't left there to make you wonder, they were left there because the writers were lazy and bad. It's very telling that you don't know the difference.

I loved pulp fiction and ronin. I'd love to see where that point is going. I presume you will attempt to make a false equivilency based on a few minor plot holes from those movies? Go ahead. Unlike you, I can probably address them in a rational and logical manner
 
2012-06-26 06:02:14 PM  

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: ITT (and all over America, apparently): People who get confused and angry when a movie doesn't hold their hand and explain everything to them like they're retarded or under the age of 6. You people must farking despise Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy if Prometheus gets you all grumpy.

Seriously, use your farking brain and imagination some. Not only will you enjoy Prometheus more, you'll find a lot of things in life are suddenly more interesting and/or entertaining when you actually use your brain for more than the motor function required to shovel more snacks in your gaping gob.


just because you can make up a better movie in your head doesn't make the massive plot holes coherent. there's no internally consistent logic driving the plot because it's written by that idiot who wrote lost. you're not smarter than people who actually expect their fiction to make sense. 2001 might be an example of a movie where lots of details are left out that are immediately confusing to the viewer, but there's an internal logic to it that makes perfect sense on reflection. "IF YOU USE YOUR BRAIN YOU CAN COME UP WITH REASONS FOR THE STUPID THINGS NOT BEING STUPID IF YOU STRETCH AND STRAIN REAL HARD" is just you having shiatty taste and feeling superior about it. people who expected quality were disappointed, don't pretend it's brilliant or that you're brilliant because you filled in the plot holes with your own fan fiction. it's not a smart movie, you're not a smart person.

i wonder if you come off this stupid and obnoxious in real life.
 
2012-06-26 06:02:15 PM  
fozziewazzi: Noomi Rapace manages to give herself an alien abortion, IT'S NEVER MENTIONED BY ANYONE. She stumbles in, all bloody and shaking, on Weyland, David and various red shirts, and nobody says, "What just happened?" and she doesn't say, "Oh, I just left a horrible alien squid fetus in your surgical pod, you might want to look into that." No, David just gives her a clean robe and we get some fountain of youth woo-woo dialogue. WTF?

So I wasn't the only one that thought this scene was odd.


Thats a lie. Or at least a mis-telling of the scene.

Shaw comes in and two of Weyland marines immediately detain here seconds after entering, looking pretty WTF horrified. David looks surprised, as only he could, and makes note of her. Wayland dosen't even notice, or care, because she doesn't matter. He goes on to his sociopathic the means justify the ends speech and tells her to suit up if she's still hasn't lost faith (DICK). It was a scene that instantly tells you about his concerns, the real mission and why the crew was so... loose. They didn't not notice her, two detained her, David spoke to her and weyland told her to stop farking around.
 
2012-06-26 06:03:41 PM  

State_College_Arsonist: It was an amusing movie, but there were more than a few glaring plot holes. Hell, the fact that the constellation of stars recorded across all those civilizations didn't change over 30,000 years is flat out wrong, and that's the first few minutes. Then there's the complete lack of concern for biological contamination, the short duration of the trip through space...

I still enjoyed the movie.


I was wondering about the flight duration too. The nearest star is about 4 light years away, but it only took Prometheus 2 years/4months to get to where they were going?
 
2012-06-26 06:04:06 PM  
I came out of Prometheus really liking it a lot, but the more I thought about it, the more pissed off I got. It's a gorgeous movie, and it seems like a top-tier sci-fi flick while you're watching it, but once you have a chance to digest it, the gaping plot holes ruin it.

Even while I was watching it, I was impressed by the stupidity of some of the plot stuff (SPOILER WARNING):

1. Two crewmembers get lost in a structure that has already been fully mapped in 3-D (by one of the guys who subsequently gets lost). And whose 3D model is being displayed on the bridge of the vessel with red dots representing the guys who are lost, and who are in radio contact with their vessel during the period of being lost.

2. Charlize Theron's announcement that she's Weyland's daughter was not only pointless and completely unmotivated, but also silly, given the age difference. And Charlize's casual hook-up with the ship captain was likewise completely unmotivated and pointless.

3. Apparently, geologists and biologists on future space missions will be recruited from the "soccer hooligans" and "unemployed stoner" demographics.

4. The "run in a straight line from a giant rolling doughnut" provoked audible groans from the entire audience in the showing I went to.

Upshot: a pretty but profoundly stupid movie.
 
2012-06-26 06:04:59 PM  
blackomne: If I am remembering the sequence when David is looking at the replay of the engineers going into hibernation. You see Earth and then lines come out of Earth to all these other planets. It made me think Earth was going to be some kind of starting/jumping off point for whatever they planned on doing with the black goo. They intended to go to Earth and use the goo on us but were prevented from doing so.

I also think the engineers are afraid of us because we are full of pathogens. The scanner showed them to be pathogen free. David was asked to say who we are and that we have been looking for them. David probably started to say we are from this planet called Earth located in this area of space...

Engineer: OH CRAP... Kill them all... kill them quick...


Yes, and then Earth was left in what appeared to be a destination input thingy to the side. Later the Engineer pulls up the course plot and starts up the ship.

My take is the Engineer was supposed to be in stasis while the ship auto piloted to Earth, hence why he was sleeping when the outbreak happened. also why he;s damn confused to see humans standing there when he wakes. He's supposed to be hiding in IO's atmosphere.
 
2012-06-26 06:10:30 PM  

TyrantII: fozziewazzi: Noomi Rapace manages to give herself an alien abortion, IT'S NEVER MENTIONED BY ANYONE. She stumbles in, all bloody and shaking, on Weyland, David and various red shirts, and nobody says, "What just happened?" and she doesn't say, "Oh, I just left a horrible alien squid fetus in your surgical pod, you might want to look into that." No, David just gives her a clean robe and we get some fountain of youth woo-woo dialogue. WTF?

So I wasn't the only one that thought this scene was odd.

Thats a lie. Or at least a mis-telling of the scene.

Shaw comes in and two of Weyland marines immediately detain here seconds after entering, looking pretty WTF horrified. David looks surprised, as only he could, and makes note of her. Wayland dosen't even notice, or care, because she doesn't matter. He goes on to his sociopathic the means justify the ends speech and tells her to suit up if she's still hasn't lost faith (DICK). It was a scene that instantly tells you about his concerns, the real mission and why the crew was so... loose. They didn't not notice her, two detained her, David spoke to her and weyland told her to stop farking around.


that doesn't explain why they didn't ask about her baby. it doesn't explain why they let her go meet the engineer. weyland not giving a fark about anyone but himself doesn't explain why he hires idiots who put the entire crew, INCLUDING HIMSELF in danger. you know, the people responsible for making contact and getting weyland home safely. it doesn't explain why noomi can do awesome long jumps and sprinting and rolling with her abdominal muscles cut in half. it doesn't explain why "push up" vickers doesn't just roll to the farking side. it doesn't explain the incredibly shiatty science that any 8 year old can pick apart.
 
2012-06-26 06:10:39 PM  
And despite my criticisms, there were phenomenal aspects to the film. Fassbender's portrayal of David being the most noteworthy. The set design and costuming were also amazing, as were the exteriors. If handled by a different writer, the sequels could really be something special.
 
2012-06-26 06:11:00 PM  
My beef wasn't that it had plot holes-- the entire series is a bunch of relatively mindless slasher flicks with a distinctive art and direction style, frankly if you care about plot holes the only movie that didn't suck was the first one (Alien) which was a slasher film _and_ a monster movie and thus had no plot for there to be holes in.

What bothered me about Prometheus is that it is neither:

(a) Suspenseful (making it a thriller/suspense film)

(b) Scary (making it a straight horror film)

while Alien was both and Aliens was at least the latter. This isn't to say this is a bad thing in itself, plenty of slasher movies are neither and just rely on gore and visuals (what Promethius essentially did). It's just a huge letdown given the rest of the movies in the setting... though I guess technically the Alien v Predator movies are also in the setting so I shouldn't have hoped so much.

What distinguishes scary from gory is that something is scary only if the audience can reasonably place themselves in the position of the person the bad thing happens to. If an even mildly intelligent person would have easily avoided a given situation through common sense. If your hero hears something in his house and goes sneaking around with a bat checking for burglars, the audience can see themselves conceivably doing that, so when he opens the door and there's a giant blade-monster that eats him, the monster is scary. If your hero is on a foreign planet with no information about the atmosphere beyond general composition and in a structure clearly built by entities known to be biologically similar to humans and he takes off his helmet before a detailed analysis is completed, even the dumbest person in the audience knows he's too stupid to live and can't put themselves in his shoes anymore.

//Though, all that said, what broke my suspension of disbelief was something slightly more specialized-- when they carbon-dated an alien creature, on an alien planet, which had an alien civilization with farking spaceships on it. There are at least half a dozen reasons why that wouldn't even kinda work in any way. Reasons that spending thirty seconds in the "carbon dating" article of wikipedia should make your writer clear on the need to add technobabble for at least.
 
2012-06-26 06:11:45 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Geez, you can just smell the butt-hurt in here. Prometheus was a masterpiece. Easily on par with Space Balls or Galaxy Quest.

It completely disconstructed the flaws of modern sci-fi films. Having the biologist run from a harmless dead alien, but then go right up to a live, threatening one? I was cracking up. And having the guy with the map get lost? farking hilarious!

And having Holloway perform combat gymnastics immediately after getting a c-section? Brilliantly subversive commentary on the bloodless violence of action films. And Guy Pearce's ridiculous Halloween costume? Really powerful statement on how practical effects aren't always adequate.

And the mysterious black goo, a damning condemnation of the hack writer's Macguffin - quick, we need a crew member to get sick: black goo! Now we need one to turn into a supermutant: black goo! And now we need a reason to destroy the alien ship for our climactic set piece: black goo to the rescue.

Prometheus is epic in its critique of lazy writing and the use of mystery to replace a plot. It'll be studied in film classes for decades.


Give them credit, at least they didn't defeat the aliens with unobtanium.
 
2012-06-26 06:13:38 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And despite my criticisms, there were phenomenal aspects to the film. Fassbender's portrayal of David being the most noteworthy. The set design and costuming were also amazing, as were the exteriors. If handled by a different writer, the sequels could really be something special.


luckily damon lindelof has stated he will not be on board for a sequel. i don't think ridley scott would recognize a good script, though. look forward to PROMETHEUSES: WRITTEN BY DIABLO CODY.
 
2012-06-26 06:18:01 PM  

YoTengoId: luckily damon lindelof has stated he will not be on board for a sequel. i don't think ridley scott would recognize a good script, though. look forward to PROMETHEUSES: WRITTEN BY DIABLO CODY.

Oscar Winner

Diablo Cody.

//shudder
 
2012-06-26 06:18:02 PM  

justtray: Which is exactly why everyone calls you and anyone else who thinks this was a thinker movie, a moron. They weren't left there to make you wonder, they were left there because the writers were lazy and bad. It's very telling that you don't know the difference.


Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you personally know the writers and the motivations behind their writing. Forgive me for not realizing sooner that you possesed such insightful insider knowledge.


I loved pulp fiction and ronin. I'd love to see where that point is going. I presume you will attempt to make a false equivilency based on a few minor plot holes from those movies? Go ahead. Unlike you, I can probably address them in a rational and logical manner

Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Pulp Fiction or Ronion = Not a problem, it was totally deliberate.
Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Prometheus = OMG, I KNOW FOR A FACT IT WASN'T DELIBERATE, IT'S A PLOT HOLE, LAZY WRITING, WARGARBHLLLLLL!!!!
 
2012-06-26 06:18:20 PM  
YoTengoId: TyrantII: fozziewazzi: Noomi Rapace manages to give herself an alien abortion, IT'S NEVER MENTIONED BY ANYONE. She stumbles in, all bloody and shaking, on Weyland, David and various red shirts, and nobody says, "What just happened?" and she doesn't say, "Oh, I just left a horrible alien squid fetus in your surgical pod, you might want to look into that." No, David just gives her a clean robe and we get some fountain of youth woo-woo dialogue. WTF?

So I wasn't the only one that thought this scene was odd.

Thats a lie. Or at least a mis-telling of the scene.

Shaw comes in and two of Weyland marines immediately detain here seconds after entering, looking pretty WTF horrified. David looks surprised, as only he could, and makes note of her. Wayland dosen't even notice, or care, because she doesn't matter. He goes on to his sociopathic the means justify the ends speech and tells her to suit up if she's still hasn't lost faith (DICK). It was a scene that instantly tells you about his concerns, the real mission and why the crew was so... loose. They didn't not notice her, two detained her, David spoke to her and weyland told her to stop farking around.

that doesn't explain why they didn't ask about her baby. it doesn't explain why they let her go meet the engineer. weyland not giving a fark about anyone but himself doesn't explain why he hires idiots who put the entire crew, INCLUDING HIMSELF in danger. you know, the people responsible for making contact and getting weyland home safely. it doesn't explain why noomi can do awesome long jumps and sprinting and rolling with her abdominal muscles cut in half. it doesn't explain why "push up" vickers doesn't just roll to the farking side. it doesn't explain the incredibly shiatty science that any 8 year old can pick apart.


Weyland had a meeting with the creator, so the previous methods of experiments really didn't matter, did they? Who cares about the goo, when David will talk to the SJ for Weyland directly? Weyland was never in danger, unless you can tell me how.... he had his nice own partitioned off pad, remember? We already know David can run the entire ships operations, Weyland only needed him, did he not? He was the only one Weyland trusted, as the movie made very clear.

As for Shaw, space adrenalin and oxycontin is a hell of a drug. Her use of it to stay mobile was some last action hero shiat, but so what. The cesarian scene was flipping cool.
 
2012-06-26 06:19:45 PM  

Teufelaffe: Suede head: Life on Earth began nearly four billion years ago. Are they saying these engineers have been tooling around with the same tech, same motivations, same physical appearance over BILLIONS of years? That just defies belief.

The movie doesn't suggest that ALL life on Earth came from the Engineers, just that human life did. That's a whole lot smaller time span than billions of years.


How can their DNA be 100% human when they look so different?

Both of these people have 100% human DNA, yet they look as different from each other as the Engineers do from us:

[graphics8.nytimes.com image 328x500]
[0.tqn.com image 394x594]


If that Engineer at the start is seeding a barren planet with life then how come there's an oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere for him to breath?

That wasn't a barren planet. Not sure what gave you that idea, but you do see some plant life as they pan across the landscape.


Hmm, interesting points. I take your point about the diversity of human appearance but the Engineers are uniformly much larger than Humans whereas you are using extreme examples and they have blue-grey skin which implies more than just varying amounts of melanin like we have. Is it my imagination or did they have white blood too?

If it's just human life that they seeded then that's still a time-frame of millions of years. I would find it more plausible if they took a hominid species and "uplifted" it with intelligence. I still think the "100% human DNA match" is really stupid. If it was, say, 98% match then fair enough, but there would be a lot of mutation and evolution in the millions of years since recognisably human Hominids evolved. Ridley Scott should really have someone play Devil's Advocate and kick holes in his ideas until he could come up with plausible explanations.
 
2012-06-26 06:20:37 PM  

Jim_Callahan: My beef wasn't that it had plot holes-- the entire series is a bunch of relatively mindless slasher flicks with a distinctive art and direction style, frankly if you care about plot holes the only movie that didn't suck was the first one (Alien) which was a slasher film _and_ a monster movie and thus had no plot for there to be holes in.

What bothered me about Prometheus is that it is neither:

(a) Suspenseful (making it a thriller/suspense film)

(b) Scary (making it a straight horror film)

while Alien was both and Aliens was at least the latter. This isn't to say this is a bad thing in itself, plenty of slasher movies are neither and just rely on gore and visuals (what Promethius essentially did). It's just a huge letdown given the rest of the movies in the setting... though I guess technically the Alien v Predator movies are also in the setting so I shouldn't have hoped so much.

What distinguishes scary from gory is that something is scary only if the audience can reasonably place themselves in the position of the person the bad thing happens to. If an even mildly intelligent person would have easily avoided a given situation through common sense. If your hero hears something in his house and goes sneaking around with a bat checking for burglars, the audience can see themselves conceivably doing that, so when he opens the door and there's a giant blade-monster that eats him, the monster is scary. If your hero is on a foreign planet with no information about the atmosphere beyond general composition and in a structure clearly built by entities known to be biologically similar to humans and he takes off his helmet before a detailed analysis is completed, even the dumbest person in the audience knows he's too stupid to live and can't put themselves in his shoes anymore.

//Though, all that said, what broke my suspension of disbelief was something slightly more specialized-- when they carbon-dated an alien creature, on an alien planet, which had an alien civi ...


it's been a little while, but i don't remember any glaring plot holes in Alien or Aliens. I remember likable/interesting characters that behaved like real people might and retained their intelligence even in the face of terror, naturalistic dialogue, internal plot consistency, a mystery about the Space Jockeys lingering in the margins, and awesomely horrific rape anxiety/body horror and creeping dread.

there were only like 3 instances of shiat science in each movie apiece, which is commendable.

anyways, these could just be fond memories. are there really gaping plot holes in the early alien franchise?
 
2012-06-26 06:21:24 PM  

TyrantII: fozziewazzi: Noomi Rapace manages to give herself an alien abortion, IT'S NEVER MENTIONED BY ANYONE. She stumbles in, all bloody and shaking, on Weyland, David and various red shirts, and nobody says, "What just happened?" and she doesn't say, "Oh, I just left a horrible alien squid fetus in your surgical pod, you might want to look into that." No, David just gives her a clean robe and we get some fountain of youth woo-woo dialogue. WTF?

So I wasn't the only one that thought this scene was odd.

Thats a lie. Or at least a mis-telling of the scene.

Shaw comes in and two of Weyland marines immediately detain here seconds after entering, looking pretty WTF horrified. David looks surprised, as only he could, and makes note of her. Wayland dosen't even notice, or care, because she doesn't matter. He goes on to his sociopathic the means justify the ends speech and tells her to suit up if she's still hasn't lost faith (DICK). It was a scene that instantly tells you about his concerns, the real mission and why the crew was so... loose. They didn't not notice her, two detained her, David spoke to her and weyland told her to stop farking around.


Did I watch a different movie? Shaw stumbles in covered in blood with staples across her stomach and falls to her knees. Two men walk over and help her up, then David walks over to give her a jacket to cover herself. The only reaction that registers is "oh, we didn't expect you". It was a peculiar scene, and seemed like a writer's clumsy short-cut to quickly get Shaw back into the story.
 
2012-06-26 06:23:19 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And despite my criticisms, there were phenomenal aspects to the film. Fassbender's portrayal of David being the most noteworthy. The set design and costuming were also amazing, as were the exteriors. If handled by a different writer, the sequels could really be something special.

I'm pretty excited for a sequel with just Fassbender and Noomi. Hell, thats how to keep production cost down, only cast and focus on them!

Linds can leave, I don't really care. This flick wasn't horrible, but it was too loose and it did try to hard to both be hard scifi and popcorn, always being one or the other, never a meld of both. A lot of minor flaws could easily have been written around.

Example: don't switch the characters, but switch milburn and fifileds actions. Milburn is the scaredy cat, Fifield has to babysit, and goes after the worm xeno facehugger thing, with milburn telling him it's not a good idea. Honestly, it's not much better, but apparently that's the big deal for a lot of people. The cliche charters and actions weren't boilerplate enough.
 
2012-06-26 06:24:05 PM  

Teufelaffe: Suede head: Life on Earth began nearly four billion years ago. Are they saying these engineers have been tooling around with the same tech, same motivations, same physical appearance over BILLIONS of years? That just defies belief.

The movie doesn't suggest that ALL life on Earth came from the Engineers, just that human life did. That's a whole lot smaller time span than billions of years.


But then you have the problem of how similar our DNA is to other life on Earth. Not to mention all the common ancestry fossils or hell, just the fact that we can live in the same ecosystem as the other life on Earth or hell, just being able to digest and integrate protein from other species on Earth....

It'd have to suggest that the black goo not only seeded humans, but also changed the ecosystem of Earth and its inhabitants to mirror the birth of humans. While that's conceivable, surely fossil records would show such a drastic change in biology?
 
2012-06-26 06:24:10 PM  

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: justtray: Which is exactly why everyone calls you and anyone else who thinks this was a thinker movie, a moron. They weren't left there to make you wonder, they were left there because the writers were lazy and bad. It's very telling that you don't know the difference.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you personally know the writers and the motivations behind their writing. Forgive me for not realizing sooner that you possesed such insightful insider knowledge.


I loved pulp fiction and ronin. I'd love to see where that point is going. I presume you will attempt to make a false equivilency based on a few minor plot holes from those movies? Go ahead. Unlike you, I can probably address them in a rational and logical manner

Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Pulp Fiction or Ronion = Not a problem, it was totally deliberate.
Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Prometheus = OMG, I KNOW FOR A FACT IT WASN'T DELIBERATE, IT'S A PLOT HOLE, LAZY WRITING, WARGARBHLLLLLL!!!!


As I said, false equivilency. Not that you actually listed any plot holes from those movies. I get you're offended. You should be. You're one of the people this article makes fun of. An idiot who inserts his own belief into plot holes and asserts they are therefore not.

Anyway I think we're done here. You've proven yourself to be a child who does not understand basic movie critique, who cannot reconcile the fact that he liked a movie with the fact that it was bad writing, who cannot even identify bad writing even when told explicitly. There is literally no reason to continue conversation with a blatant white knighting nerd rager. You'll have to take solace knowing you're superior to everyone and that only you were smart enough to make bold leaps in logic not supported by the film. Bravo
 
2012-06-26 06:24:17 PM  

Cinaed:
I should've gone to see Brave.


Well bad news, according to the internet you have to hate Brave too.
 
2012-06-26 06:24:42 PM  

bluesbox: And Charlize's casual hook-up with the ship captain was likewise completely unmotivated and pointless.


It made it so the captain was no longer monitoring the knuckleheads who got face raped by a mutant worm and turned into a raging burn victim.
Very Friday the 13th-esque.
Apparently in the future they don't have DVRs so instead of watching the tape back of what happened to them, they just went out looking.
But yeah, other than that, it was just kind of dropped. Didn't really have much to do with anything else, either before or after that point.
That whole sequence, starting with when the two knuckleheads got left behind, was terrible.
 
2012-06-26 06:27:39 PM  

TyrantII: YoTengoId: TyrantII: fozziewazzi: Noomi Rapace manages to give herself an alien abortion, IT'S NEVER MENTIONED BY ANYONE. She stumbles in, all bloody and shaking, on Weyland, David and various red shirts, and nobody says, "What just happened?" and she doesn't say, "Oh, I just left a horrible alien squid fetus in your surgical pod, you might want to look into that." No, David just gives her a clean robe and we get some fountain of youth woo-woo dialogue. WTF?

So I wasn't the only one that thought this scene was odd.

Thats a lie. Or at least a mis-telling of the scene.

Shaw comes in and two of Weyland marines immediately detain here seconds after entering, looking pretty WTF horrified. David looks surprised, as only he could, and makes note of her. Wayland dosen't even notice, or care, because she doesn't matter. He goes on to his sociopathic the means justify the ends speech and tells her to suit up if she's still hasn't lost faith (DICK). It was a scene that instantly tells you about his concerns, the real mission and why the crew was so... loose. They didn't not notice her, two detained her, David spoke to her and weyland told her to stop farking around.

that doesn't explain why they didn't ask about her baby. it doesn't explain why they let her go meet the engineer. weyland not giving a fark about anyone but himself doesn't explain why he hires idiots who put the entire crew, INCLUDING HIMSELF in danger. you know, the people responsible for making contact and getting weyland home safely. it doesn't explain why noomi can do awesome long jumps and sprinting and rolling with her abdominal muscles cut in half. it doesn't explain why "push up" vickers doesn't just roll to the farking side. it doesn't explain the incredibly shiatty science that any 8 year old can pick apart.

Weyland had a meeting with the creator, so the previous methods of experiments really didn't matter, did they? Who cares about the goo, when David will talk to the SJ for Weyland direct ...

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: justtray: Which is exactly why everyone calls you and anyone else who thinks this was a thinker movie, a moron. They weren't left there to make you wonder, they were left there because the writers were lazy and bad. It's very telling that you don't know the difference.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you personally know the writers and the motivations behind their writing. Forgive me for not realizing sooner that you possesed such insightful insider knowledge.


I loved pulp fiction and ronin. I'd love to see where that point is going. I presume you will attempt to make a false equivilency based on a few minor plot holes from those movies? Go ahead. Unlike you, I can probably address them in a rational and logical manner

Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Pulp Fiction or Ronion = Not a problem, it was totally deliberate.
Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Prometheus = OMG, I KNOW FOR A FACT IT WASN'T DELIBERATE, IT'S A PLOT HOLE, LAZY WRITING, WARGARBHLLLLLL!!!!


you are literally gibbering right now.

tarintino describes writing a movie like this: you write a great story, remove half of it. the other half is left up to the audience to get through things like LOGIC and SUBTEXT and CONTEXT and other smart writery devices that add depth and meaning beyond what is immediately apparent.

can you figure out the difference between that and what prometheus did? are you ready to exercise that big brain of yours? or are you just a sockpuppet account for damon lindelof, another hack who can string together ideas created by his betters without adding any insight or connective tissue or recognizable human emotion?
 
2012-06-26 06:28:29 PM  
The main reason (there are a lot) the first scene can't be earth is because the black ooze turns everything into a monster. Everything. So therefore it could not have been seeding and creating life as we know it.

It makes slightly more sense that that scene was the beginning of the outbreak on the alien planet 2k years ago and since all of those creatures died due to lack of nutrition. Granted, only slightly more sense....

That scene can still go both ways
 
2012-06-26 06:28:59 PM  

YoTengoId: that doesn't explain why they didn't ask about her baby.


As far as we know, David is the only person who knows about the baby. Now that there's an Engineer to talk to, the status of said baby is of lesser importance.

it doesn't explain why they let her go meet the engineer.

Because Weyland likes to show off.

weyland not giving a fark about anyone but himself doesn't explain why he hires idiots who put the entire crew, INCLUDING HIMSELF in danger. you know, the people responsible for making contact and getting weyland home safely.

Already been touched on in this thread, but it boils down to Weyland only really needs a small number of people in order to accomplish his goals (as far as he knows) and everyone else is not important enough to even spare a thought about. If you've spent some time around a sociopathic rich person before, you'll recognize the attitude.

it doesn't explain why noomi can do awesome long jumps and sprinting and rolling with her abdominal muscles cut in half.

Yeah, that's an annoying bit. They could have included any number of explanations, but didn't bother.

it doesn't explain why "push up" vickers doesn't just roll to the farking side. it doesn't explain the incredibly shiatty science that any 8 year old can pick apart.

I guess you could say she was panicking and not thinking straight, but it's still not really believable.
 
2012-06-26 06:30:49 PM  

imgod2u: But then you have the problem of how similar our DNA is to other life on Earth. Not to mention all the common ancestry fossils or hell, just the fact that we can live in the same ecosystem as the other life on Earth or hell, just being able to digest and integrate protein from other species on Earth....


It was a religion-themed movie, they're dismissing Darwinian evolution as the origin of humans, and replacing it with black goo.
 
2012-06-26 06:31:14 PM  
fozziewazzi: TyrantII: fozziewazzi: Noomi Rapace manages to give herself an alien abortion, IT'S NEVER MENTIONED BY ANYONE. She stumbles in, all bloody and shaking, on Weyland, David and various red shirts, and nobody says, "What just happened?" and she doesn't say, "Oh, I just left a horrible alien squid fetus in your surgical pod, you might want to look into that." No, David just gives her a clean robe and we get some fountain of youth woo-woo dialogue. WTF?

So I wasn't the only one that thought this scene was odd.

Thats a lie. Or at least a mis-telling of the scene.

Shaw comes in and two of Weyland marines immediately detain here seconds after entering, looking pretty WTF horrified. David looks surprised, as only he could, and makes note of her. Wayland dosen't even notice, or care, because she doesn't matter. He goes on to his sociopathic the means justify the ends speech and tells her to suit up if she's still hasn't lost faith (DICK). It was a scene that instantly tells you about his concerns, the real mission and why the crew was so... loose. They didn't not notice her, two detained her, David spoke to her and weyland told her to stop farking around.

Did I watch a different movie? Shaw stumbles in covered in blood with staples across her stomach and falls to her knees. Two men walk over and help her up, then David walks over to give her a jacket to cover herself. The only reaction that registers is "oh, we didn't expect you". It was a peculiar scene, and seemed like a writer's clumsy short-cut to quickly get Shaw back into the story.


Must of, David make a obtuse remark that he "didn't think she had it in her" and said something else I don;t seem to recall. Both both David and the mercs faces do tell a story; much like Vickers absolute horror when torching Holloway. Weyland looks on in indifference that border on contempt or annoyance. Yes it's an assumption, but David most likely told Weyland about Shaw's "child", so he;s not very surprised or caring when he see's her, as we know David had been relaying stuff to Weyland the whole time.

Like I said, there's a lot of subtle things in the visuals. I went a second time and paid attention to scenes that had me wondering stuff too. Visually, and paying close attention to the dialogue, it made much more sense.
 
2012-06-26 06:32:25 PM  

justtray: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: justtray: Which is exactly why everyone calls you and anyone else who thinks this was a thinker movie, a moron. They weren't left there to make you wonder, they were left there because the writers were lazy and bad. It's very telling that you don't know the difference.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you personally know the writers and the motivations behind their writing. Forgive me for not realizing sooner that you possesed such insightful insider knowledge.


I loved pulp fiction and ronin. I'd love to see where that point is going. I presume you will attempt to make a false equivilency based on a few minor plot holes from those movies? Go ahead. Unlike you, I can probably address them in a rational and logical manner

Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Pulp Fiction or Ronion = Not a problem, it was totally deliberate.
Plot point left entirely unexplained and therefore up to the viewer's imagination in Prometheus = OMG, I KNOW FOR A FACT IT WASN'T DELIBERATE, IT'S A PLOT HOLE, LAZY WRITING, WARGARBHLLLLLL!!!!

As I said, false equivilency. Not that you actually listed any plot holes from those movies. I get you're offended. You should be. You're one of the people this article makes fun of. An idiot who inserts his own belief into plot holes and asserts they are therefore not.

Anyway I think we're done here. You've proven yourself to be a child who does not understand basic movie critique, who cannot reconcile the fact that he liked a movie with the fact that it was bad writing, who cannot even identify bad writing even when told explicitly. There is literally no reason to continue conversation with a blatant white knighting nerd rager. You'll have to take solace knowing you're superior to everyone and that only you were smart enough to make bold leaps in logic not supported by the film. Bravo


I'm not sure why you're still arguing with that idiot, it became pretty clear pretty damned quickly that they'd never come around...

/Am I also to assume that C S-W has confused MacGuffins for plot holes?
 
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