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(CNSNews)   From the Department of Money Well Spent: After almost 50 years and untold trillions of dollars, the US poverty level is the same as it was when war was declared   (cnsnews.com) divider line 413
    More: Obvious, poverty line, President Johnson, Earned Income Tax Credit  
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1405 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Jun 2012 at 12:22 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-27 04:37:39 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: I am upper middle class probably. Definitely not lower class and definitely not poor.

I don't own a refrigerator or a washer or dryer.

I live in an apartment that has these things. I could buy them, but I am a single father putting one kid through college with no help from anyone.

Where does Fox News feel I belong?


Depends. What color are you?
 
2012-06-27 06:25:59 PM  

hasty ambush: "I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. "
Benjamin Franklin, On the Price of Corn, and Management of the Poor



Completely relevant today, since America is the same type of farm society heavily reliant on slave labor.
 
2012-06-27 09:54:51 PM  

bugontherug: SouthernFriedYankee: The first half of that huge slope was during JFK, who cut the top marginal tax rates during his adminstration.

Also noteworthy:

[Kennedy] did lower the top tax bracket significantly, although from a vastly higher starting point than anything we've seen in recent years: 91 percent on marginal income greater than $400,000. And he cut it only to 70 percent, hardly the mark of a future Club for Growth member.

Link

So I'm glad we agree on Kennedynomics as a model for the nation. Demand side tax cuts, and a top marginal rate of 70% sounds about right to me.


Except nobody really paid 70%. Prior to the1980s there were far more deductions and loop holes. The "Reagan tax cuts" were a compromise of lowering marginal rates in exchange for closing loop holes and eliminating or making some deductions harder to take.

Net effect was the rich paid more in taxes

1981 the top 1% paid 17.6% of all personal income taxes,
1988 the top 1% paid 27.5%,
The top 10% of taxpayers share of taxes paid increased from 48.0% in 1981 to 57.2% in 1988. The share of income taxes paid by the bottom 50% of taxpayers dropped from 7.5% in 1981 to 5.7% in 1988.

1981, the top marginal tax rate was 70% In 1989, it was 28%

Federal Income Tax Revenue increased from $326 billion in 1983 to $549 billion in 1989.

Lesson learned: Don't make the tax rate punitive and people will expend less effort looking for ways to avoid paying it.

In what just society does government deserve over 30% of a person's income regardless of the amount?
 
2012-06-27 10:22:17 PM  

intelligent comment below: hasty ambush: "I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. "
Benjamin Franklin, On the Price of Corn, and Management of the Poor


Completely relevant today, since America is the same type of farm society heavily reliant on slave labor.


Completely relevant whe you consider that the Federal Welfare State has not ended poverty or even significantly reduced it. It has created a mutli-generational dependency class that not only views welfare has an "entitlement" but a career choice.

Any attempt to reform much less end these failed programs is of course bitterly resisted by the poltical left who have among the dependency class a group willing to sell their votes in exchange for continue acess or increased access to other people's money.

If you want to talk about slavery consider that the average american tax payer (an ever decreasing percentage of the population carrying the load for the rest)
had to work until the 17th of April to pay his/her taxes before they started working for themselves

spokelement.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-27 10:26:00 PM  
Here is a thought. We set up a timeline withe benchmarks so we can withdrawl from this decades long, multi-trillion dollar quagmire known as the war on poverty
 
2012-06-27 10:44:07 PM  

hasty ambush: Completely relevant whe you consider that the Federal Welfare State has not ended poverty or even significantly reduced it.



These programs are not designed to end poverty, they are designed to allow people living in poverty a chance to still live life.

They also were mainly designed to end elderly poverty rates, which have significantly dropped.


hasty ambush: Any attempt to reform much less end these failed programs is of course bitterly resisted by the poltical left who have among the dependency class a group willing to sell their votes in exchange for continue acess or increased access to other people's money.



First, learn to spell. And second, remind me what President reformed Welfare in the 1990's?


hasty ambush: If you want to talk about slavery consider that the average american tax payer (an ever decreasing percentage of the population carrying the load for the rest)
had to work until the 17th of April to pay his/her taxes before they started working for themselves



You mean an American tax payer who hasn't paid any lower taxes since the beginning of the income tax?
 
2012-06-27 10:45:02 PM  

hasty ambush: Here is a thought. We set up a timeline withe benchmarks so we can withdrawl from this decades long, multi-trillion dollar quagmire known as the war on poverty



I'm sure poverty rates will magically decrease because... magic.

/you might want to spend your hard earned money on an English class
 
2012-06-28 07:19:30 AM  

Hobodeluxe: demaL-demaL-yeH: coeyagi:

DrPainMD: There was a time when Medicare, Pell grants and food stamps didn't exist. Guess what, not one turd hit one fan blade.

Yep, everyone was going to college and poverty was nearly non-existent back in the good ole days of entitlement-less America.

Now, now. There really was a time when the middle class constituted a healthy majority of the population.
When unions represented 30% of workers, 65% were middle class.
Now that unions represent only 7% of private sector workers, fewer than 42% of workers are middle class.
Union membership and middle class membership declined in lockstep.

Now I'm not sayin' that correlation necessarily implies causation, but ...

back when the rich paid up to 90 % of their income in taxes.
before the American worker was sold to the highest bidding foreign slave traders.
before the middle class was thrown into the pit to compete with 3rd world labor.


There was NEVER a time in the US when the rich paid 90% of their income in taxes. NEVER. Even when the top MARGINAL RATE (google it) was 90%, nobody paid it (google: loopholes).
 
2012-06-28 07:23:02 AM  

mat catastrophe: DrPainMD: mat catastrophe: It's hard to eliminate poverty when every single policy enacted over forty years has increased it.

Let's start with enacting a maximum wage, followed by a meaningful minimum wage. Let's move on to destroying the profit motive in food production, then health care, then real estate.

And if the rich don't like it, fark 'em. There's always Macau.

Do you really think that a maximum wage will accomplish anything good? Let's say you set it at $100,000. If a brain surgeon makes $200,000 per year, do you really think that he'll work six months for free? I don't; he's more likely to take a six month vacation every year. Any way you look at it, high earners will produce less and GDP, along with the production of the various things we consume, will plummet.

I don't know why, but I'm constantly amazed at how little thought people put into their stupid ideas.

If you became a doctor for the money, then fark you.


So, that's your answer: let GDP and tax revenue go down the tubes, and the poverty rate go up, just so you can stick it to the man and gloat about the maximum wage?
 
2012-06-28 01:12:17 PM  

intelligent comment below: hasty ambush: Completely relevant whe you consider that the Federal Welfare State has not ended poverty or even significantly reduced it.


These programs are not designed to end poverty, they are designed to allow people living in poverty a chance to still live life.

They also were mainly designed to end elderly poverty rates, which have significantly dropped.


We have already established the the overall poverty rate has remained virtually unchanged and if they were for the elderly why are others drawing from the programs? If the programs do not exist to end poverty (which is how they were sold) but to make people comfortable in "poverty" what incentive is there to get out of poverty?

Like I stated these programs have created a dependency class that politicians can rely on to sell their votes to them in exchange for other people's money. the other people being the tax payers. It is easy for the politician to promise the dependency class more free stuff, thus insuring their political allegiance; after all the politician is not giving them any of his money.


hasty ambush: Any attempt to reform much less end these failed programs is of course bitterly resisted by the political left who have among the dependency class a group willing to sell their votes in exchange for continue acess or increased access to other people's money.


First, learn to spell. And second, remind me what President reformed Welfare in the 1990's?


You mean the same President who apologized for it and promised to "fix" that same reform? There would have been no reform without a Republican controlled House, just like there would not have been any budget surpluses. Prior to that the Clinton Administration was forecasting deficits out to 2000.

hasty ambush: If you want to talk about slavery consider that the average american tax payer (an ever decreasing percentage of the population carrying the load for the rest)
had to work until the 17th of April to pay his/her taxes before they started working for themselves


You mean an American tax payer who hasn't paid any lower taxes since the beginning of the income tax?

??????
 
2012-06-28 03:31:17 PM  

DrPainMD: mat catastrophe: DrPainMD: mat catastrophe: It's hard to eliminate poverty when every single policy enacted over forty years has increased it.

Let's start with enacting a maximum wage, followed by a meaningful minimum wage. Let's move on to destroying the profit motive in food production, then health care, then real estate.

And if the rich don't like it, fark 'em. There's always Macau.

Do you really think that a maximum wage will accomplish anything good? Let's say you set it at $100,000. If a brain surgeon makes $200,000 per year, do you really think that he'll work six months for free? I don't; he's more likely to take a six month vacation every year. Any way you look at it, high earners will produce less and GDP, along with the production of the various things we consume, will plummet.

I don't know why, but I'm constantly amazed at how little thought people put into their stupid ideas.

If you became a doctor for the money, then fark you.

So, that's your answer: let GDP and tax revenue go down the tubes, and the poverty rate go up, just so you can stick it to the man and gloat about the maximum wage?


Why should I answer to your asinine hypothetical situation that assumes that every high-income earner is a heartless fark like yourself?
 
2012-06-29 03:48:21 AM  

beta_plus: HeartBurnKid: Dancin_In_Anson: Or that one of the actual stated goals of the Great Society was the elimination of poverty.

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."

For America, the results were more like this:

[cdn.babble.com image 600x539]


Wasn't Reagan in charge when that happened?
 
2012-06-29 03:00:20 PM  

Bigdogdaddy:
Wasn't Reagan in charge when that happened?


Yes. Yes, he was.
That man was a disaster who did more political and economic damage to the US than the communists ever did.
That picture is the middle class under his watch, too.
And the beginning of the Gordon Gekko era.
And the move from GATT to WTO.
And gutting Glass-Steagall.
"Trickle-down economics."
Iran-Contra.
Redistributing income from the poor to the rich and shifting the tax burden from the rich to the poor.
Reversing Carter's initiative toward achieving energy independence.

Four trillion dollars of extra deficit for weapons systems that had been canceled and "Star Wars" missile defense?
Imagine our infrastructure, health care, retirement, and education systems with that kind of investment thirty years ago.

The Cold War? You're going to hang his "greatness" on that?
The Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact already experiencing an economic meltdown.
And he almost set off World War III - more than once.
 
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