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(Colorado Springs Gazette)   The military steps in with C-130s to take on the Waldo Canyon fire just outside Colorado Springs. Go get 'em boys   (gazette.com) divider line 253
    More: Interesting, Canyon Fire, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, recreation area, canyons, navigators, Lincoln Chafee, emergency managers  
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12575 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2012 at 5:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



253 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-06-25 03:06:51 PM
seems like over kill, I can usually find him after a few minutes of searching
 
2012-06-25 03:10:12 PM
Where's that canyon?
 
2012-06-25 03:13:08 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: Where's that canyon?


IT'S THE ONE WITH THE STRIPES AND.. AND...
 
2012-06-25 03:14:21 PM
Let's just hope they don't get all excited and lose the wings this time.
 
2012-06-25 03:30:54 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: Where's that canyon?


Just west of Colorado Springs.
 
2012-06-25 03:31:34 PM

Unfreakable: AdolfOliverPanties: Where's that canyon?

Just west of Colorado Springs.


I just bit, didn't I?

/dammit
 
2012-06-25 03:59:18 PM

Unfreakable: Unfreakable: AdolfOliverPanties: Where's that canyon?

Just west of Colorado Springs.

I just bit, didn't I?

/dammit


No, you just found it and you're onto the next page: Waldo, Kansas. Go.
 
2012-06-25 04:17:38 PM
Tomorrow's WND headline: MYSTERY MILITARY AIRCRAFT SPOTTED FLYING LOW OVER COLORADO
 
2012-06-25 04:24:32 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Let's just hope they don't get all excited and lose the wings this time.


I remember seeing that happen just after I moved to Estes Park in 2002. The plane exploded in mid-air. Talk about a helpless feeling....

crash
 
2012-06-25 05:08:57 PM
i18.photobucket.com

Waldo's canyons?
 
2012-06-25 05:11:01 PM
I see all the obvious Waldo jokes have been used up, moving right along then....
 
2012-06-25 05:12:40 PM
You can find it on a map if you look really hard but you'll need glasses. And a hat.
 
2012-06-25 05:13:07 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tomorrow's WND headline: MYSTERY MILITARY AIRCRAFT SPOTTED FLYING LOW OVER COLORADO


Unlikely:

FTFA:

2:42
We're getting reports that the C-130s have been grounded because of smoke, but we haven't confirmed. Report comes from our news partners at KOAA.
 
2012-06-25 05:17:08 PM

adeist69: I see all the obvious Waldo jokes have been used up, moving right along then....


What Waldo jokes? I didn't see any. Are they hidden in this thread somewhere?
 
2012-06-25 05:18:00 PM
My cousin's house is half a mile from the fire as of yesterday so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2012-06-25 05:18:36 PM
Those huge trees I used to ride under are surely ash, though they were pine.

Miss Waldo Canyon rides!
 
2012-06-25 05:18:45 PM

VRaptor117: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tomorrow's WND headline: MYSTERY MILITARY AIRCRAFT SPOTTED FLYING LOW OVER COLORADO

Unlikely:

FTFA:

2:42
We're getting reports that the C-130s have been grounded because of smoke, but we haven't confirmed. Report comes from our news partners at KOAA.


So much for that.
 
2012-06-25 05:18:55 PM
Waldo pond?
 
2012-06-25 05:19:20 PM

VRaptor117: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tomorrow's WND headline: MYSTERY MILITARY AIRCRAFT SPOTTED FLYING LOW OVER COLORADO

Unlikely:

FTFA:

2:42
We're getting reports that the C-130s have been grounded because of smoke, but we haven't confirmed. Report comes from our news partners at KOAA.


Oh my

/my joke is invalid
//bless you sir... bless you
 
2012-06-25 05:20:07 PM
Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-25 05:21:37 PM
This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.
 
2012-06-25 05:21:38 PM
Damn, the fire had to kill at least 13 people in a row without dying to get those!
 
2012-06-25 05:23:31 PM

algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.


Buzzkill.
 
2012-06-25 05:24:13 PM

Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]


payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.
 
2012-06-25 05:24:16 PM

algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.


You have a really weird sense of "what is fun", don't you? You probably watch train wrecks on Saturday afternoon to relax.

/oh wait, so do I.
//"Caught on Camera" disaster marathon
 
2012-06-25 05:24:32 PM

SultanofSchwing: algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.

Buzzkill.


What? We were drinking.
 
2012-06-25 05:24:58 PM

halB: kill at least 13 people in a row without dying


[nathanfillioncantreply.gif]
 
2012-06-25 05:25:10 PM
Wow, fighting a 5,000 acre fire with a plane that can carry almost 3000 gallons of water at a time.

I'll bet they can effectively cover up to five acres with just one plane.

// They have a couple hundred of those planes, right?
 
2012-06-25 05:28:36 PM
OBAMA PANDERING

or

BIG GOVERNMENT PICKING WINNERS AND LOSERS
 
2012-06-25 05:28:58 PM

algrant33: SultanofSchwing: algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.

Buzzkill.

What? We were drinking.


What? You were not?
 
2012-06-25 05:29:27 PM

halB: Damn, the fire had to kill at least 13 people in a row without dying to get those!


it's 11 or 10 if it has hardline, but I'm guessing it used danger close
 
2012-06-25 05:30:08 PM

Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]


That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-06-25 05:31:00 PM
subversatile.net

I heard we were taking on fire at Waldo Canyon. I responded with C-130s.
 
2012-06-25 05:33:30 PM
Hopefully there aren't any big fires elsewhere in the nation. More than half of our wildfire fighting equipment is in Colorado right now, and it looks like the temperature is going to keep hovering around 100 degrees without any rain in sight
 
2012-06-25 05:34:05 PM

notmtwain: Wow, fighting a 5,000 acre fire with a plane that can carry almost 3000 gallons of water at a time.

I'll bet they can effectively cover up to five acres with just one plane.

// They have a couple hundred of those planes, right?


I'm no expert on firefighting, but I assume that you can use each plane more than once.
 
2012-06-25 05:34:27 PM

Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]


Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

www.flugzeuginfo.net
 
2012-06-25 05:35:02 PM
and no, that's not the one I saw, just a picture of some CL415 like the one I saw.
 
rka
2012-06-25 05:35:36 PM

notmtwain: Wow, fighting a 5,000 acre fire with a plane that can carry almost 3000 gallons of water at a time.

I'll bet they can effectively cover up to five acres with just one plane.

// They have a couple hundred of those planes, right?


You don't put out a forest fire with the planes. All the planes do is make an area (cool it down) where the firefighters can get into and really go to work. WIldfires are fought by people on the ground doing hard, backbreaking work.
 
2012-06-25 05:36:30 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Hopefully there aren't any big fires elsewhere in the nation. More than half of our wildfire fighting equipment is in Colorado right now, and it looks like the temperature is going to keep hovering around 100 degrees without any rain in sight


Yeah, we are burning up here. In some places literally.


/not looking forward to the electric bill
 
2012-06-25 05:38:58 PM
Go get 'em boys

Sexist.
 
2012-06-25 05:39:21 PM

RoyBatty: [subversatile.net image 450x301]

I heard we were taking on fire at Waldo Canyon. I responded with C-130s.


Close. That would be an AC-130. If you responded with a C-130, it would be with supplies, retardant, or a plane load of very pissed off paratroopers.

But I like the way you think.
 
rka
2012-06-25 05:39:26 PM

jst3p: Communist_Manifesto: Hopefully there aren't any big fires elsewhere in the nation. More than half of our wildfire fighting equipment is in Colorado right now, and it looks like the temperature is going to keep hovering around 100 degrees without any rain in sight

Yeah, we are burning up here. In some places literally.


/not looking forward to the electric bill


The little storm activity we are getting is basically lightning. Just what we need.
 
2012-06-25 05:39:59 PM
I'm torn. On the one hand, I don't want to see my childhood town damaged. On the other, it's Colorado Springs. Fire might do it a favor.

Unfortunately, the city itself will be spared. The nice outer parts won't.
 
2012-06-25 05:41:58 PM

MeSoHomely: RoyBatty: [subversatile.net image 450x301]

I heard we were taking on fire at Waldo Canyon. I responded with C-130s.

Close. That would be an AC-130. If you responded with a C-130, it would be with supplies, retardant, or a plane load of very pissed off paratroopers.

But I like the way you think.


Just cutting fire breaks, Sir!
 
2012-06-25 05:42:07 PM

notmtwain: Wow, fighting a 5,000 acre fire with a plane that can carry almost 3000 gallons of water at a time.

I'll bet they can effectively cover up to five acres with just one plane.

// They have a couple hundred of those planes, right?


The planes are not used to 'put out' a wildfire. They are used to buy time, slow down a hot spot, protect a specific structure, 'guide' the fire in a less destructive direction. They give the boots on the ground a chance to contain the fire and limit its destruction.

Nobody puts out a wildfire, all you can do is contain it and let it burn out.
 
2012-06-25 05:42:36 PM

Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]


Nope. They're using 60+ year-old submarine hunters donated by the military. They need to land and be refilled by a tanker. And I think there are less than a dozen left that are still airworthy.
 
2012-06-25 05:45:01 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: Where's that canyon?


I wouldn't know.

Carmen Sandiego stole the damn thing.
 
2012-06-25 05:45:30 PM
Between the fires, which are TNCGWEITAIHNDHA (Totally Not Caused by Global Warming, and Even If They Are, It Has Nothing to Do with Human Action), and the pine beetle, which is likewise TNCGWEITAIHNDHA, Colorado, and plenty of other Western states, are going to become very sad places in the coming decades. Devoid of forest (certainly of pine trees), and eventually more or less uninhabitable, unless you don't mind your house burning down every few years.

They'd better pass a law soon making it illegal to suggest that the fires and beetles anything other than TNCGWEITAIHNDHA.
 
2012-06-25 05:46:14 PM

firefly212: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

[www.flugzeuginfo.net image 640x480]


Peterson Air Force Base is about 10 miles from the area so they can fill as they please without risking water reloads, which some if not most pilots would probably prefer.

As far as the hercs are concerned, I'm thinking that the issue is an altitude/air mixture issue caused by the smoke which would affect most aircraft similarly. The Air Force (like all military forces) runs a risk analysis for flight missions and just does not think that the risk is worth the reward right now.
 
2012-06-25 05:47:28 PM

RoyBatty: MeSoHomely: RoyBatty: [subversatile.net image 450x301]

I heard we were taking on fire at Waldo Canyon. I responded with C-130s.

Close. That would be an AC-130. If you responded with a C-130, it would be with supplies, retardant, or a plane load of very pissed off paratroopers.

But I like the way you think.

Just cutting fire breaks, Sir!


And in the right areas, you can do lots of area improvements in advance of the fire.

/Since he always sends disasters their way, I have to ask: Why does God hate trailer parks?
 
2012-06-25 05:48:48 PM

algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.


What you standin there for?
Get up, get out, get out of the door
 
2012-06-25 05:49:36 PM

firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.


For really low-level work, I'd stick with the piston engine prop-jobs. There is no spool-up time with them - torque is direct and instantaneous.
 
2012-06-25 05:51:06 PM
Good to see they finally put them to use... High park fire has been burning for weeks.
 
2012-06-25 05:54:01 PM

firefly212: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

[www.flugzeuginfo.net image 640x480]


Huh, I didn't think there were too many of those operating in US airspace.

What they really need is the pair of Martin Mars bombers, CF-LYK and CF-LYL.

www.martinmars.com
 
2012-06-25 05:55:51 PM

swahnhennessy: On the other, it's Colorado Springs. Fire might do it a favor.


Pssst: Just because James Dobson and Ted Haggard live here doesn't mean everyone is like them.
 
2012-06-25 05:57:21 PM
The The PGM-38/U Enhanced 25 mm High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) round would probably cause more fires than it puts out, right?
 
2012-06-25 05:57:53 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!:
The planes are not used to 'put out' a wildfire. They are used to buy time, slow down a hot spot, protect a specific structure, 'guide' the fire in a less destructive direction. They give the boots on the ground a chance to contain the fire and limit its destruction.

Nobody puts out a wildfire, all you can do is contain it and let it burn out.



"It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters. It'll be just like Beggars' Canyon."
 
2012-06-25 05:58:05 PM

Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]


OMG!!! Won't SOMEONE think of the fish????

/fight fire, feed firefighters all in one pass?
 
kth
2012-06-25 05:58:07 PM

queezyweezel: Marcus Aurelius: Let's just hope they don't get all excited and lose the wings this time.

I remember seeing that happen just after I moved to Estes Park in 2002. The plane exploded in mid-air. Talk about a helpless feeling....

crash


Good to see that the EP one from yesterday was contained quickly. That could have been a whole lot worse than it was.

My parents sent pictures, although they live on the other side of town.
 
2012-06-25 05:58:44 PM

highendmighty: algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.

What you standin there for?
Get up, get out, get out of the door


I've got a bug-out bag put together, but I hope it won't come to that. I'm 8 blocks from the mandatory evacs, so it's certainly possible. A sustained heavy westerly wind will make it happen.
 
2012-06-25 06:00:55 PM
My house is a major-block away from the mandatory evacuation area near Garden of the Gods, so I'm really getting a kick out of the replies etc.

/Evac'ed on Saturday across town just in case
 
2012-06-25 06:02:16 PM

Charlie Freak: firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.

For really low-level work, I'd stick with the piston engine prop-jobs. There is no spool-up time with them - torque is direct and instantaneous.


Can any of you plane guys tell us if there's a distinct advantage/disadvantage of prop vs. jet when going through really hot air? Or is it not an issue at the altitude they'd be dropping from?
 
2012-06-25 06:02:20 PM

VRaptor117: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tomorrow's WND headline: MYSTERY MILITARY AIRCRAFT SPOTTED FLYING LOW OVER COLORADO

Unlikely:

FTFA:

2:42
We're getting reports that the C-130s have been grounded because of smoke, but we haven't confirmed. Report comes from our news partners at KOAA.


Also FTFA:

3:40 p.m.

Reporter Jakob Rodgers says the C-130s are NOT grounded. The planes are in Pueblo, where refueling station is, according to the 302nd Airlift Wing.
 
2012-06-25 06:03:00 PM

RoyBatty: [subversatile.net image 450x301]

I heard we were taking on fire at Waldo Canyon. I responded with C-130s.


That's just spooky.
 
2012-06-25 06:03:28 PM

MeSoHomely: If you responded with a C-130, it would be with supplies, retardant, or a plane load of very pissed off paratroopers.


The fire will be out before you can count to potato!
 
2012-06-25 06:03:58 PM

Noekken: Ow! That was my feelings!:
The planes are not used to 'put out' a wildfire. They are used to buy time, slow down a hot spot, protect a specific structure, 'guide' the fire in a less destructive direction. They give the boots on the ground a chance to contain the fire and limit its destruction.

Nobody puts out a wildfire, all you can do is contain it and let it burn out.


"It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters. It'll be just like Beggars' Canyon."


My God! You shoot animals for fun? That's the first indicator of a serial killer, you freak!
 
2012-06-25 06:04:07 PM

change1211: firefly212: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

[www.flugzeuginfo.net image 640x480]

Huh, I didn't think there were too many of those operating in US airspace.

What they really need is the pair of Martin Mars bombers, CF-LYK and CF-LYL.

[www.martinmars.com image 590x456]


just curious, but is that up in b.c. ? the name on the tail is the same of a large mill & it would make sense that they have their own fire fighting planes.

just curious.
 
2012-06-25 06:05:20 PM
My cousin has been evacuated from the Ute Pass where my great-grandparents built their home in the 1880s so I'm not getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2012-06-25 06:07:02 PM

stvdallas: The The PGM-38/U Enhanced 25 mm High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) round would probably cause more fires than it puts out, right?


How about some daisy cutters/MOABs? We use dynamite to put out oil well fires, right?
 
2012-06-25 06:10:18 PM

algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.


Welcome to the party, CS. I read flames at the north end of the High Park fire topped 200 feet the other day :(
 
2012-06-25 06:10:26 PM
change1211: firefly212: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

[www.flugzeuginfo.net image 640x480]

Huh, I didn't think there were too many of those operating in US airspace.

What they really need is the pair of Martin Mars bombers, CF-LYK and CF-LYL.

[www.martinmars.com image 590x456]


Fark it, convert the Spruce goose to be a tanker
 
2012-06-25 06:10:39 PM

change1211: firefly212: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

[www.flugzeuginfo.net image 640x480]

Huh, I didn't think there were too many of those operating in US airspace.

What they really need is the pair of Martin Mars bombers, CF-LYK and CF-LYL.

[www.martinmars.com image 590x456]


It was definitely a CL-415... damned prettiest plane I ever saw... first one I saw was in Quebec, but they are so frickin pretty... I don't know who is flying it though, I don't think the Forest Service operates them. =/
 
2012-06-25 06:10:56 PM

jaytkay: My cousin has been evacuated from the Ute Pass where my great-grandparents built their home in the 1880s so I'm not getting a kick out of these replies...


Good subversion of the meme.

/Hope they and their property are okay though.
 
2012-06-25 06:11:24 PM

kth: queezyweezel: Marcus Aurelius: Let's just hope they don't get all excited and lose the wings this time.

I remember seeing that happen just after I moved to Estes Park in 2002. The plane exploded in mid-air. Talk about a helpless feeling....

crash

Good to see that the EP one from yesterday was contained quickly. That could have been a whole lot worse than it was.

My parents sent pictures, although they live on the other side of town.


No kidding. I'm not up there any more, but my friend lives two streets over from where it was burning off of high drive. Their street never got the evacuation order, and they have some pretty scary footage of the fire as it burnt up a few homes in short order.
 
2012-06-25 06:12:00 PM

MeSoHomely: /Since he always sends disasters their way, I have to ask: Why does God hate trailer parks?


Because SATAN lives there!!!

www.onetotom.com
 
2012-06-25 06:12:49 PM
highendmighty:
What you standin there for?
Get up, get out, get out of the door


I see what you did there and I love it.
 
2012-06-25 06:13:13 PM
Putin's on the job.

www.csmonitor.com

/from another thread
 
2012-06-25 06:14:36 PM

Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]


I would think there would be fuel issues with landing and re-taking off. A large jet can use up 1/4 to 1/3 of its fuel JUST on takeoff.
 
2012-06-25 06:15:12 PM

algrant33: highendmighty: algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.

What you standin there for?
Get up, get out, get out of the door

I've got a bug-out bag put together, but I hope it won't come to that. I'm 8 blocks from the mandatory evacs, so it's certainly possible. A sustained heavy westerly wind will make it happen.


Here's to hoping you won't have to...*raises beer*
 
2012-06-25 06:16:44 PM
Last night on the news, the reporters did an interview with one of the pilots who was saying they fly really low, so please don't call 911 reporting that an airplane is about to crash.

/Well, I thought it was humorous.
//I'm on the other side of Pikes Peak from the fire.
///Some idiot is running around El Paso/Teller/Park counties actually starting fires. Boy do the people have plans for that yahoo.
 
2012-06-25 06:17:54 PM
Slurry bombers will always remind me of this one time a seagull took a shiat on me.
 
2012-06-25 06:20:22 PM

violentsalvation: Slurry bombers will always remind me of this one time a seagull took a shiat on me.


Was it at band camp while you had a flute in your pussy? Because that's just weird.
 
2012-06-25 06:20:23 PM

Cork on Fork: MeSoHomely: If you responded with a C-130, it would be with supplies, retardant, or a plane load of very pissed off paratroopers.

The fire will be out before you can count to potato!


Wants to help:
us3.memecdn.com

/hot
 
2012-06-25 06:21:31 PM
lonesurvivor.matthewkelley.comze.com

Time to blow the shiat out of that brown person fire.
 
2012-06-25 06:23:21 PM

ProfessorOhki: Charlie Freak: firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.

For really low-level work, I'd stick with the piston engine prop-jobs. There is no spool-up time with them - torque is direct and instantaneous.

Can any of you plane guys tell us if there's a distinct advantage/disadvantage of prop vs. jet when going through really hot air? Or is it not an issue at the altitude they'd be dropping from?


the problem is not really the hot air, it is the ash and other small particles that would shred the internals of a jet engine
 
2012-06-25 06:23:45 PM

Sensei Can You See: swahnhennessy: On the other, it's Colorado Springs. Fire might do it a favor.

Pssst: Just because James Dobson and Ted Haggard live here doesn't mean everyone is like them.


Precisely THIS! Colorado got Californicated years ago when Dobson moved Focus on the Family here. We weren't all that happy about it or the way they've tried to co-opt our region. Plenty of great folks here who aren't whackos!

/Sad to see Purple Mountain's majesty above the burning flames.
 
2012-06-25 06:26:00 PM

CrscntBufS: ///Some idiot is running around El Paso/Teller/Park counties actually starting fires. Boy do the people have plans for that yahoo.


Wow, hadn't heard about that. If the cops don't catch him before someone else does, his only hope is that he picked an area with some decently laid back people. If he tried that to the NE I know a few people who honestly would have no issues with burying an arsonist where he fell (assuming they don't just leave him to the coyotes). The only call the cops would get would be along the lines of "You know that guy lighting fires? Yeah, you don't need to keep looking for him."
 
2012-06-25 06:26:07 PM

Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]


Yeah, but C-130's are huge... I was inside of this thing at Hill, AFB, and I could have lived inside of it. I'd love to know how much more space is in the C-130.

C-124C "GLOBEMASTER II"

/Thing was so big that try as I might, I couldn't find Waldo anywhere...
 
2012-06-25 06:26:29 PM

Kibbler: Between the fires, which are TNCGWEITAIHNDHA (Totally Not Caused by Global Warming, and Even If They Are, It Has Nothing to Do with Human Action), and the pine beetle, which is likewise TNCGWEITAIHNDHA, Colorado, and plenty of other Western states, are going to become very sad places in the coming decades. Devoid of forest (certainly of pine trees), and eventually more or less uninhabitable, unless you don't mind your house burning down every few years.

They'd better pass a law soon making it illegal to suggest that the fires and beetles anything other than TNCGWEITAIHNDHA.


I'm pretty sure that even here in the most conservative city outside the middle east, there are a lot of people thinking that human action has caused quite a few of these fires...just not the way you're thinking.

\Let's just say that Smokey is NOT happy.
 
2012-06-25 06:27:18 PM
Hey if any of you farkers are interested, here is a perimeter map of the fire.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_20928988

I'm just glad I live on the eastern part of down.
 
2012-06-25 06:28:12 PM

Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]


There's one here that's pretty big. Halfway down the page.

Martin JRM Mars
 
2012-06-25 06:28:21 PM

CrscntBufS: ///Some idiot is running around El Paso/Teller/Park counties actually starting fires. Boy do the people have plans for that yahoo.


I have some words for him myself.
/smoky but un-burned
 
2012-06-25 06:29:09 PM
 
2012-06-25 06:29:10 PM
That's retardant.
 
kth
2012-06-25 06:29:38 PM

queezyweezel: kth: queezyweezel: No kidding. I'm not up there any more, but my friend lives two streets over from where it was burning off of high drive. Their street never got the evacuation order, and they have some pretty scary footage of the fire as it burnt up a few homes in short order.


We rented a house on High Drive, across from the BVM entrance a few years ago. We were pleasantly surprised to see that it was okay.
 
2012-06-25 06:31:42 PM
*Town, not down. Smoke is getting to me.
 
2012-06-25 06:32:20 PM
I was a crew chief with the 146th Airlift Wing at Channel islands, CA ANG in their ancient C-130E with MAFFS gear so I'm really getting a kick out of this. Wish I'd been around long enough to get into those C-130J's.

farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2012-06-25 06:32:22 PM
Is this where we are posting pics of the fire?
i438.photobucket.com
hot like, well, you know
 
2012-06-25 06:32:27 PM
I used to live in Manitou Springs. It takes serious balls to fly *anything* in Waldo Canyon.

I wish them all well.
 
2012-06-25 06:33:09 PM

Mikey1969: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

Yeah, but C-130's are huge... I was inside of this thing at Hill, AFB, and I could have lived inside of it. I'd love to know how much more space is in the C-130.

C-124C "GLOBEMASTER II"

/Thing was so big that try as I might, I couldn't find Waldo anywhere...


The c-130 has a max payload of 45,000lbs, the C-124C had a max payload of 216,000 lbs

The c-130 ain't that big, but you can put it down just about anywhere. That's a big part of why we use them in firefighting.
 
2012-06-25 06:33:15 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Hopefully there aren't any big fires elsewhere in the nation. More than half of our wildfire fighting equipment is in Colorado right now, and it looks like the temperature is going to keep hovering around 100 degrees without any rain in sight


Yeah, we had that last weekend here in Utah, and then had a day with 30 mph+ winds. We got off lucky though.

I'm REALLY not ready for it to start hitting 100 degrees, that's for sure, I was supposed to get another 3 weeks before it got hot. It could be worse though, I could still be stuck in Az...
 
2012-06-25 06:34:09 PM
what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.
 
2012-06-25 06:35:49 PM

Sensei Can You See: Pssst: Just because James Dobson and Ted Haggard live here doesn't mean everyone is like them.


Pssst: Will Perkins was around well before those guys.
 
2012-06-25 06:35:49 PM
Anyone else read the headline as "the military steps in with C-3PO's"??
 
2012-06-25 06:36:17 PM
just found this beauty http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/story/2012-06-25/Colorado-Upda tes-on-the-fires-vacation-tips/55806328/1
 
2012-06-25 06:36:18 PM

jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.


img811.imageshack.us
 
2012-06-25 06:36:56 PM

firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.


I heard the Air Force Academy offered use of their field right away. As mentioned in the thread, you also have Peterson Air Force base. If you're going to bring in military assets to help with this, it's a good area.

/maybe we could get NORAD involved when we find the blasted arsonist that is running around and nuke him from orbit
 
2012-06-25 06:37:22 PM

Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.



Unfortunatley, I don't think we have that much water in the whole state
 
2012-06-25 06:39:58 PM

swahnhennessy: I'm torn. On the one hand, I don't want to see my childhood town damaged. On the other, it's Colorado Springs. Fire might do it a favor.

Unfortunately, the city itself will be spared. The nice outer parts won't.


Hey. My Mama is in the Springs.

/Did you go to high school there? I graduated from Wasson.
 
2012-06-25 06:40:22 PM

Earpj: /Did you go to high school there? I graduated from Wasson.


I dropped out of Wasson.
 
2012-06-25 06:41:43 PM

swahnhennessy: Earpj: /Did you go to high school there? I graduated from Wasson.

I dropped out of Wasson.


So did I. Went back.
 
2012-06-25 06:41:54 PM
Why does God hate Colorado Springs?

www.huffingtonpost.com

www.drjamesdobson.org
 
2012-06-25 06:42:56 PM

CJHardin: Noekken: Ow! That was my feelings!:
The planes are not used to 'put out' a wildfire. They are used to buy time, slow down a hot spot, protect a specific structure, 'guide' the fire in a less destructive direction. They give the boots on the ground a chance to contain the fire and limit its destruction.

Nobody puts out a wildfire, all you can do is contain it and let it burn out.

"It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters. It'll be just like Beggars' Canyon."

My God! You shoot animals for fun? That's the first indicator of a serial killer, you freak!


It's OK, they're an invasive species.
 
2012-06-25 06:51:06 PM
So there's absolutely no "Where's Pyro?" image ready for the stealin'? Come on internet what the fark?
 
2012-06-25 06:57:04 PM
I was evac'd out yesterday morning, but they let us go back home last night. Incredibly hot and dry with no sign of relief for at least the next week. Walking outside is miserable with all the smoke in the air. They're saying the fire is 5% contained which may not seem like much, but that's 5% more than it's been for the last two days.

Anyone who says we chose to live in a fire zone is totally clueless. There has NEVER been an event like this in the last 30-40 years at least.
 
2012-06-25 06:57:27 PM

muckin refarkable: Unfortunatley, I don't think we have that much water in the whole state


OK, that made me laugh. Gonna be a long, dry summer if the monsoons don't get here.
 
2012-06-25 07:00:32 PM
wrrgarbl government intervention let it burn wrrgarbl
 
2012-06-25 07:06:53 PM

ProfessorOhki: notmtwain: Wow, fighting a 5,000 acre fire with a plane that can carry almost 3000 gallons of water at a time.

I'll bet they can effectively cover up to five acres with just one plane.

// They have a couple hundred of those planes, right?

I'm no expert on firefighting, but I assume that you can use each plane more than once.


Sorry, kill streaks don't stack.
 
2012-06-25 07:07:26 PM
t1.gstatic.com

Damn plane scooped too low.
 
2012-06-25 07:11:13 PM
I used to live in the Springs, I love Waldo Canyon, and I hope all ends well, but I do chuckle when I see that most of the tab for this is being paid for by the feds. Typical for the "bootstrappy" Springs. Deride the government, but take the money.
 
2012-06-25 07:11:23 PM

firefly212: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

[www.flugzeuginfo.net image 640x480]


Canadair CL215's (now made by bombardier) are stationed all over the Canadian prairies to fight fires, and they do a damn good job, too. They fill up from a lake in under 30 seconds and can do up to 6 waterbombing runs an hour, depending on distances from a suitable body of water. I spent a few months working on a base a few hundred meters from one of their runways.
 
2012-06-25 07:12:11 PM
That's the answer - 1000lb bombs.
 
2012-06-25 07:13:05 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.


I thought Mythbusters busted that one
 
2012-06-25 07:19:56 PM
The way the winds are blowing now, the AIR FORCE ACADEMY is in plenty of potential danger too, so kindly take a moment to suck it!
 
2012-06-25 07:22:29 PM

Kibbler: Between the fires, which are TNCGWEITAIHNDHA (Totally Not Caused by Global Warming, and Even If They Are, It Has Nothing to Do with Human Action), and the pine beetle, which is likewise TNCGWEITAIHNDHA, Colorado, and plenty of other Western states, are going to become very sad places in the coming decades. Devoid of forest (certainly of pine trees), and eventually more or less uninhabitable, unless you don't mind your house burning down every few years.

They'd better pass a law soon making it illegal to suggest that the fires and beetles anything other than TNCGWEITAIHNDHA.


Good article in our paper yesterday.
 
2012-06-25 07:22:51 PM
I'm in Woodland Park, CO and the fire is 5.5 miles from us over Rampart Range. I can smell the smoke and see the plumes over the ridges from the deck. Packed and ready to go but I'm not leaving until I absolutely have to. Been down this path with the Heyman Fire in 2002.

Someone has been running around lighting fires in the western part of the county. The scanners are saying 2 females in a silver Subaru are wanted for questioning.
 
2012-06-25 07:23:29 PM

bobfloyd:

Anyone who says we chose to live in a fire zone is totally clueless. There has NEVER been an event like this in the last 30-40 years at least lives somewhere flat with no trees.


FTFY. Feel free to ignore flyover state morons. Fires like this are serious. When the Mississippi floods and takes out half the mid-west again, you'll know what to do.
 
2012-06-25 07:24:29 PM

drhansenej: I used to live in the Springs, I love Waldo Canyon, and I hope all ends well, but I do chuckle when I see that most of the tab for this is being paid for by the feds. Typical for the "bootstrappy" Springs. Deride the government, but take the money.


The fire is burning entirely in the Pike National Forest, US government land, not municipal CO Springs.
 
2012-06-25 07:27:48 PM

drhansenej: I used to live in the Springs, I love Waldo Canyon, and I hope all ends well, but I do chuckle when I see that most of the tab for this is being paid for by the feds. Typical for the "bootstrappy" Springs. Deride the government, but take the money.


Eh, it's not like the feds would let the AFA and Fort Carson burn just to spite the idiots who are spouting off about how firefighters make too much money and the service should be privatized.
 
2012-06-25 07:29:54 PM

ProfessorOhki: Charlie Freak: firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.

For really low-level work, I'd stick with the piston engine prop-jobs. There is no spool-up time with them - torque is direct and instantaneous.

Can any of you plane guys tell us if there's a distinct advantage/disadvantage of prop vs. jet when going through really hot air? Or is it not an issue at the altitude they'd be dropping from?


Short version is that a turbo-prop (the herc) is burning a lot more fuel at those altitudes (it's still essentially a jet, just very high bypass) and it's primary internal components are at risk with airborne ash. Piston driven engines have significant advantages at lower altitudes and they are much less susceptible to damage by ash, though air starvation is a risk.

Cheers.

/+13000 hours in a herc cockpit, navigator
//Way too may hours going almost fast at low altitude
///it's not very efficient on fuel, but it's an awesome way to put a lot of mass in an area fast
 
2012-06-25 07:31:46 PM
Are there just TWO C-130's??? There should be 20 or, fark, 200. We can transport millions of pounds of bombs to the other side of the world, but can't haul water/retardant to parts of the US. Come on, some of you fark-free thinkers out there - there's got to be a way to quickly load some kind of large bladder "bombs' on ....say a C-130, bombs that has a biodegradable skin that breaks apart upon dropping.
 
2012-06-25 07:34:12 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.

I thought Mythbusters busted that one


Nope. As reported in the Reno Gazette, June of 1983 there is the story of a fire, the water that it took to contain the fire, and a scuba diver named Delmer Darion, employee of the Peppermill Hotel and Casino, Reno, Nevada. Engaged as a blackjack dealer. Well liked and well regarded as a physical, recreational and sporting sort, Delmer's true passion was for the lake. As reported by the coroner, Delmer died of a heart attack somewhere between the lake and the tree.

A most curious side note is the suicide the next day of Craig Hansen, volunteer firefighter, estranged father of four and a poor tendency to drink. Mr. Hansen was the pilot of the plane that quite accidentally lifted Delmer Darion out of the water. Added to this, Mr. Hansen's tortured life met before with Delmer Darion just two nights previous. The weight of the guilt and the measure of coincidence so large, Craig Hansen took his life.

And I am trying to think this was all only a matter of chance ... but no. These strange things happen all the time.
 
2012-06-25 07:34:18 PM

the_immoral_minority: Are there just TWO C-130's??? There should be 20 or, fark, 200. We can transport millions of pounds of bombs to the other side of the world, but can't haul water/retardant to parts of the US. Come on, some of you fark-free thinkers out there - there's got to be a way to quickly load some kind of large bladder "bombs' on ....say a C-130, bombs that has a biodegradable skin that breaks apart upon dropping.


There are 4 in the US, 2 are here. I don't know why there aren't more but this is an unprecedented fire season. It's worse than 2002 and the Heyman Fire due to weather patterns and temps.
 
2012-06-25 07:37:57 PM

Elimiscaf: the_immoral_minority: Are there just TWO C-130's??? There should be 20 or, fark, 200. We can transport millions of pounds of bombs to the other side of the world, but can't haul water/retardant to parts of the US. Come on, some of you fark-free thinkers out there - there's got to be a way to quickly load some kind of large bladder "bombs' on ....say a C-130, bombs that has a biodegradable skin that breaks apart upon dropping.

There are 4 in the US, 2 are here. I don't know why there aren't more but this is an unprecedented fire season. It's worse than 2002 and the Heyman Fire due to weather patterns and temps.


They have to equip them with this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular _Airborne_FireFighting_System

Not sure how many the US owns.
 
2012-06-25 07:38:44 PM
Have to fight fire with fire. Nuke it from orbit.
 
2012-06-25 07:40:38 PM

Elimiscaf: the_immoral_minority: Are there just TWO C-130's??? There should be 20 or, fark, 200. We can transport millions of pounds of bombs to the other side of the world, but can't haul water/retardant to parts of the US. Come on, some of you fark-free thinkers out there - there's got to be a way to quickly load some kind of large bladder "bombs' on ....say a C-130, bombs that has a biodegradable skin that breaks apart upon dropping.

There are 4 in the US, 2 are here. I don't know why there aren't more but this is an unprecedented fire season. It's worse than 2002 and the Heyman Fire due to weather patterns and temps.


I think you need to clarify. I have no idea what the current fleet in the US is, but I'd bet a lot they have more than 4 E models in active service (some doing really kewl jobs), and hundreds of H and J kicking about. Unless you're referring specifically to C130s with the necessary kit to do the job at hand.

Cheers.
 
2012-06-25 07:45:11 PM
Actually, um, why isn't the military helping with the civilian fire crisis more? What are we paying you for, civilian forces?

That is all.

P.S. Thank you.
 
2012-06-25 07:47:04 PM

Brian_of_Nazareth: Elimiscaf: the_immoral_minority: Are there just TWO C-130's??? There should be 20 or, fark, 200. We can transport millions of pounds of bombs to the other side of the world, but can't haul water/retardant to parts of the US. Come on, some of you fark-free thinkers out there - there's got to be a way to quickly load some kind of large bladder "bombs' on ....say a C-130, bombs that has a biodegradable skin that breaks apart upon dropping.

There are 4 in the US, 2 are here. I don't know why there aren't more but this is an unprecedented fire season. It's worse than 2002 and the Heyman Fire due to weather patterns and temps.

I think you need to clarify. I have no idea what the current fleet in the US is, but I'd bet a lot they have more than 4 E models in active service (some doing really kewl jobs), and hundreds of H and J kicking about. Unless you're referring specifically to C130s with the necessary kit to do the job at hand.

Cheers.


I can't even imagine what the skies would look like if you added 20-200 C-130's on top of the aircraft already working the fire. That just sounds like a recipe for a midair.
 
2012-06-25 07:52:46 PM

jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.


THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"
 
2012-06-25 07:52:58 PM

CrscntBufS: Last night on the news, the reporters did an interview with one of the pilots who was saying they fly really low, so please don't call 911 reporting that an airplane is about to crash.

/Well, I thought it was humorous.
//I'm on the other side of Pikes Peak from the fire.
///Some idiot is running around El Paso/Teller/Park counties actually starting fires. Boy do the people have plans for that yahoo.


t.qkme.me
/hot like certain parts of Colorado
 
2012-06-25 07:53:50 PM

Indubitably: Actually, um, why isn't the military helping with the civilian fire crisis more? What are we paying you for, civilian forces?
That is all.
P.S. Thank you.


If this fire was bearing down on Key West, you can bet that the large fundie contingent in Colorado Springs would be calling it punishment from God. But now that it's bearing down on them they are calling in the military to stop it.
 
2012-06-25 07:54:01 PM

bobfloyd: I was evac'd out yesterday morning, but they let us go back home last night. Incredibly hot and dry with no sign of relief for at least the next week. Walking outside is miserable with all the smoke in the air. They're saying the fire is 5% contained which may not seem like much, but that's 5% more than it's been for the last two days.

Anyone who says we chose to live in a fire zone is totally clueless. There has NEVER been an event like this in the last 30-40 years at least.


Well, if you mean in the USA, you might be correct.

Otherwise, Australia (specifically Black Saturday) would like to have a word with you on this cute little bonfire.

/Call me when it turns into an honest-to-FSM firestorm
 
2012-06-25 07:55:20 PM

drhansenej: I used to live in the Springs, I love Waldo Canyon, and I hope all ends well, but I do chuckle when I see that most of the tab for this is being paid for by the feds. Typical for the "bootstrappy" Springs. Deride the government, but take the money.


typical for the entire intermountain west, where many towns only survive because of firefighting money from the feds, then decry the 'damn gummint'
 
2012-06-25 07:58:11 PM

0Icky0: Indubitably: Actually, um, why isn't the military helping with the civilian fire crisis more? What are we paying you for, civilian forces?
That is all.
P.S. Thank you.

If this fire was bearing down on Key West, you can bet that the large fundie contingent in Colorado Springs would be calling it punishment from God. But now that it's bearing down on them they are calling in the military to stop it.


When the shiat hits the fan close to home, perception becomes reality, no?

;)
 
2012-06-25 07:58:21 PM

huckleberg: jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.

THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"


Except that not long ago, they weren't living in such a tinderbox. It occured around them over the past 30 years.
 
2012-06-25 08:01:18 PM

0Icky0: Indubitably: Actually, um, why isn't the military helping with the civilian fire crisis more? What are we paying you for, civilian forces?
That is all.
P.S. Thank you.

If this fire was bearing down on Key West, you can bet that the large fundie contingent in Colorado Springs would be calling it punishment from God. But now that it's bearing down on them they are calling in the military to stop it.


Given your analogy, you sound very ghey and repressed...and stupid! Hope you live in an earthquake zone or a hurricane zone or a locust zone or a driveby zone.
 
2012-06-25 08:04:52 PM

Uzzah: MaudlinMutantMollusk: AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.

I thought Mythbusters busted that one

Nope. As reported in the Reno Gazette, June of 1983 there is the story of a fire, the water that it took to contain the fire, and a scuba diver named Delmer Darion, employee of the Peppermill Hotel and Casino, Reno, Nevada. Engaged as a blackjack dealer. Well liked and well regarded as a physical, recreational and sporting sort, Delmer's true passion was for the lake. As reported by the coroner, Delmer died of a heart attack somewhere between the lake and the tree.

A most curious side note is the suicide the next day of Craig Hansen, volunteer firefighter, estranged father of four and a poor tendency to drink. Mr. Hansen was the pilot of the plane that quite accidentally lifted Delmer Darion out of the water. Added to this, Mr. Hansen's tortured life met before with Delmer Darion just two nights previous. The weight of the guilt and the measure of coincidence so large, Craig Hansen took his life.

And I am trying to think this was all only a matter of chance ... but no. These strange things happen all the time.

--------------------------------

What a magnolia magnificent tale. I actually thought it was a bullshiat myth too. I just remembered that CSI did an episode on it. IIRC, the scuba diver in the tree on that show was not scooped up by a firefighting aircraft either.
 
2012-06-25 08:05:18 PM

walkerhound: algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.

Welcome to the party, CS. I read flames at the north end of the High Park fire topped 200 feet the other day :(


Yeah no kidding. It's like half the state's been burning for three weeks and nobody cares until it's at THEIR back door.
 
2012-06-25 08:05:34 PM
By the way, the vast majority of conservatives in Colorado Springs support ou military with maximum respect, and are greatful for their efforts, unlike whiny, welfare sucking, entitlement seeking folks in the Fark Lib Circle Jerk Club!
 
2012-06-25 08:05:35 PM

Friction8r: Given your analogy, you sound very ghey and repressed...and stupid! Hope you live in an earthquake zone or a hurricane zone or a locust zone or a driveby zone.


Typhoon zone. You got me fundie.
 
2012-06-25 08:06:10 PM

Uzzah: MaudlinMutantMollusk: AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.

I thought Mythbusters busted that one

Nope. As reported in the Reno Gazette, June of 1983 there is the story of a fire, the water that it took to contain the fire, and a scuba diver named Delmer Darion, employee of the Peppermill Hotel and Casino, Reno, Nevada. Engaged as a blackjack dealer. Well liked and well regarded as a physical, recreational and sporting sort, Delmer's true passion was for the lake. As reported by the coroner, Delmer died of a heart attack somewhere between the lake and the tree.

A most curious side note is the suicide the next day of Craig Hansen, volunteer firefighter, estranged father of four and a poor tendency to drink. Mr. Hansen was the pilot of the plane that quite accidentally lifted Delmer Darion out of the water. Added to this, Mr. Hansen's tortured life met before with Delmer Darion just two nights previous. The weight of the guilt and the measure of coincidence so large, Craig Hansen took his life.

And I am trying to think this was all only a matter of chance ... but no. These strange things happen all the time.


Well played, sir, I wonder if you'll get many bites....
 
2012-06-25 08:09:47 PM

Friction8r: 0Icky0: Indubitably: Actually, um, why isn't the military helping with the civilian fire crisis more? What are we paying you for, civilian forces?
That is all.
P.S. Thank you.

If this fire was bearing down on Key West, you can bet that the large fundie contingent in Colorado Springs would be calling it punishment from God. But now that it's bearing down on them they are calling in the military to stop it.

Given your analogy, you sound very ghey and repressed...and stupid! Hope you live in an earthquake zone or a hurricane zone or a locust zone or a driveby zone.


It's awfully presumptive of you to "hope" this poster lives in an area frequented by ultimately chaotic violence. It's actually a bit much. Are you human?

Tone it down, human.

Or are you Cro-Magnon? Neandethal?

I didn't read you were, so...

Stand down, human.

We are.
 
2012-06-25 08:11:05 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: CrscntBufS: ///Some idiot is running around El Paso/Teller/Park counties actually starting fires. Boy do the people have plans for that yahoo.

Wow, hadn't heard about that. If the cops don't catch him before someone else does, his only hope is that he picked an area with some decently laid back people. If he tried that to the NE I know a few people who honestly would have no issues with burying an arsonist where he fell (assuming they don't just leave him to the coyotes). The only call the cops would get would be along the lines of "You know that guy lighting fires? Yeah, you don't need to keep looking for him."


Two words, people: "Burn Phone"

/no pun intended
 
2012-06-25 08:11:14 PM

Bschott007: bobfloyd: I was evac'd out yesterday morning, but they let us go back home last night. Incredibly hot and dry with no sign of relief for at least the next week. Walking outside is miserable with all the smoke in the air. They're saying the fire is 5% contained which may not seem like much, but that's 5% more than it's been for the last two days.

Anyone who says we chose to live in a fire zone is totally clueless. There has NEVER been an event like this in the last 30-40 years at least.

Well, if you mean in the USA, you might be correct.

Otherwise, Australia (specifically Black Saturday) would like to have a word with you on this cute little bonfire.

/Call me when it turns into an honest-to-FSM firestorm


I think it was pretty clear he was referring to the specific area currently on fire, not globally.
 
2012-06-25 08:15:09 PM
So, with all the farkers here in the springs, should we get a Fark party going? Kinda like a hurricane party?
 
2012-06-25 08:15:29 PM
Kibbler

Between the fires, which are TNCGWEITAIHNDHA (Totally Not Caused by Global Warming, and Even If They Are, It Has Nothing to Do with Human Action), and the pine beetle, which is likewise TNCGWEITAIHNDHA, Colorado, and plenty of other Western states, are going to become very sad places in the coming decades. Devoid of forest (certainly of pine trees), and eventually more or less uninhabitable, unless you don't mind your house burning down every few years.

They'd better pass a law soon making it illegal to suggest that the fires and beetles anything other than TNCGWEITAIHNDHA.


Lodgepole pine are a pioneer species, they are short lived and give way to climax forest of Ponderosa Pine or Douglas Fir on dry sites. Lodgepole pine should be done after 80 or so years. Look up "succession" it is the process forests go through in their life cycle. The beetle issue is forest mismanagement and fire suppression leaving lots of food for the beetles and in suppressing fire we have left insane fuel loads which will result in catastrophic fires. These hot fires will slow the regeneration process.
You paint the picture that fire is bad. It is part of how forests reproduce, it is essential for good healthy forests to burn. Pine are just doing what they do, just seems like people don't really understand how nature works.
Hope the folks in Colorado get rain, that is all that will really help. We are having serious flooding here in BC, you can have all the rain were getting.
 
2012-06-25 08:15:59 PM

Indubitably: Friction8r: 0Icky0: Indubitably: Actually, um, why isn't the military helping with the civilian fire crisis more? What are we paying you for, civilian forces?
That is all.
P.S. Thank you.

If this fire was bearing down on Key West, you can bet that the large fundie contingent in Colorado Springs would be calling it punishment from God. But now that it's bearing down on them they are calling in the military to stop it.

Given your analogy, you sound very ghey and repressed...and stupid! Hope you live in an earthquake zone or a hurricane zone or a locust zone or a driveby zone.

It's awfully presumptive of you to "hope" this poster lives in an area frequented by ultimately chaotic violence. It's actually a bit much. Are you human?

Tone it down, human.

Or are you Cro-Magnon? Neandethal?

I didn't read you were, so...

Stand down, human.

We are.


P.S. Crap, "Neanderthal?"

Heh.
 
2012-06-25 08:16:20 PM

Mikey1969: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

There's one here that's pretty big. Halfway down the page.

Martin JRM Mars


7,200 US gallons per drop, (water or in flight mix gel load), 6 hours sustained operations and as little as 15 minutes between drops..so with the Hawaii and Philippines working in tandem you put 57,600 Gallons on the fire every hour..


Link

www.martinmars.com

farm7.static.flickr.com
/hot
 
2012-06-25 08:19:39 PM
Terrifying to hear about. I grew up in Green Mountain Falls, and went to high school in Manitou Springs, two of the towns under mandatory evacuation orders (although now the evacuation has been lifted for Manitou Springs.) Such beautiful historic little towns. I sure hope everybody is safe.

/Yeah, I know, CSB
 
2012-06-25 08:19:44 PM

algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.


I'm up the highway a few miles in Teller County, where we've had 21 suspicious fires set in the last 8 or so days. I hope they catch whoever's doing this soon---it's frightening.
 
2012-06-25 08:23:40 PM
can we put all the politics aside here and thank the firefighters. full gear in 90-100F temps on extremely rugged terrain. Imagine how rough of a job that is. With trees exploding into flames. and a possible arsonist or arsonists on the loose.

Thank you firefighters. (and the Red Cross volunteers and the shelters taking in animals and everybody else helping out.)
 
2012-06-25 08:26:27 PM

Proletariat In Charge: So, with all the farkers here in the springs, should we get a Fark party going? Kinda like a hurricane party?


Yes! Once they reopen 24 that is. ;-)
 
2012-06-25 08:27:06 PM
Wow.

I was in the Springs for a wedding last weekend. I was hiking in that exact area. Interestingly I was hiking there because my first choice up above Denver was on fire.
 
2012-06-25 08:27:08 PM

change1211: Brian_of_Nazareth: Elimiscaf: the_immoral_minority: Are there just TWO C-130's??? There should be 20 or, fark, 200. We can transport millions of pounds of bombs to the other side of the world, but can't haul water/retardant to parts of the US. Come on, some of you fark-free thinkers out there - there's got to be a way to quickly load some kind of large bladder "bombs' on ....say a C-130, bombs that has a biodegradable skin that breaks apart upon dropping.

There are 4 in the US, 2 are here. I don't know why there aren't more but this is an unprecedented fire season. It's worse than 2002 and the Heyman Fire due to weather patterns and temps.

I think you need to clarify. I have no idea what the current fleet in the US is, but I'd bet a lot they have more than 4 E models in active service (some doing really kewl jobs), and hundreds of H and J kicking about. Unless you're referring specifically to C130s with the necessary kit to do the job at hand.

Cheers.

I can't even imagine what the skies would look like if you added 20-200 C-130's on top of the aircraft already working the fire. That just sounds like a recipe for a midair.


I think you missed a level of quote. I wasn't supporting the idea of large numbers of C130s in the air, I know just how difficult deconflicting that would be. I was asking after the statement that there were only 4 in the US. shiat, we had problems deconflicting half a dozen aircraft in uncontrolled airspace, I wouldn't even joke about considering 200.

Cheers
 
2012-06-25 08:29:01 PM

change1211: firefly212: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

Bombardier makes some awesome planes that scoop up water from lakes and dump them, I saw one go over about an hour ago.

[www.flugzeuginfo.net image 640x480]

Huh, I didn't think there were too many of those operating in US airspace.

What they really need is the pair of Martin Mars bombers, CF-LYK and CF-LYL.

[www.martinmars.com image 590x456]


I think there are often four CL-415s (SuperScoopers) leased from Quebec in CA during the fire season. Some of the other Canadian-based planes make guest appearances in the states on occasion.
 
2012-06-25 08:33:36 PM

Uzzah: MaudlinMutantMollusk: AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.

I thought Mythbusters busted that one

Nope. As reported in the Reno Gazette, June of 1983 there is the story of a fire, the water that it took to contain the fire, and a scuba diver named Delmer Darion, employee of the Peppermill Hotel and Casino, Reno, Nevada. Engaged as a blackjack dealer. Well liked and well regarded as a physical, recreational and sporting sort, Delmer's true passion was for the lake. As reported by the coroner, Delmer died of a heart attack somewhere between the lake and the tree.

A most curious side note is the suicide the next day of Craig Hansen, volunteer firefighter, estranged father of four and a poor tendency to drink. Mr. Hansen was the pilot of the plane that quite accidentally lifted Delmer Darion out of the water. Added to this, Mr. Hansen's tortured life met before with Delmer Darion just two nights previous. The weight of the guilt and the measure of coincidence so large, Craig Hansen took his life.

And I am trying to think this was all only a matter of chance ... but no. These strange things happen all the time.


Ah. Thank you. I hadn't heard about an incident involving a plane. As I recall, Mythbusters was testing the helicopter snorkel water intake and couldn't make it work.
 
2012-06-25 08:34:45 PM
Brian_of_Nazareth:

I think you need to clarify. I have no idea what the current fleet in the US is, but I'd bet a lot they have more than 4 E models in active service (some doing really kewl jobs), and hundreds of H and J kicking about. Unless you're referring specifically to C130s with the necessary kit to do the job at hand.

Cheers.


Actually I believe the newscast said there are 8 in the U.S. There were already 2 in Colorado and they flew 2 in from Wyoming.
 
2012-06-25 08:35:13 PM

algrant33: highendmighty: algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.

What you standin there for?
Get up, get out, get out of the door

I've got a bug-out bag put together, but I hope it won't come to that. I'm 8 blocks from the mandatory evacs, so it's certainly possible. A sustained heavy westerly wind will make it happen.


Same here. We're on the west side by the quarry scar. That's a mighty big plume coming over my house right now.
 
2012-06-25 08:36:53 PM

Proletariat In Charge: So, with all the farkers here in the springs, should we get a Fark party going? Kinda like a hurricane party?


I'm game. Took 3 hours to get to work this morning in Woodland Park. I'm working from home now till they get 24 back open.
 
2012-06-25 08:39:14 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Uzzah: MaudlinMutantMollusk: AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.

I thought Mythbusters busted that one

Nope. As reported in the Reno Gazette, June of 1983 there is the story of a fire, the water that it took to contain the fire, and a scuba diver named Delmer Darion, employee of the Peppermill Hotel and Casino, Reno, Nevada. Engaged as a blackjack dealer. Well liked and well regarded as a physical, recreational and sporting sort, Delmer's true passion was for the lake. As reported by the coroner, Delmer died of a heart attack somewhere between the lake and the tree.

A most curious side note is the suicide the next day of Craig Hansen, volunteer firefighter, estranged father of four and a poor tendency to drink. Mr. Hansen was the pilot of the plane that quite accidentally lifted Delmer Darion out of the water. Added to this, Mr. Hansen's tortured life met before with Delmer Darion just two nights previous. The weight of the guilt and the measure of coincidence so large, Craig Hansen took his life.

And I am trying to think this was all only a matter of chance ... but no. These strange things happen all the time.

Ah. Thank you. I hadn't heard about an incident involving a plane. As I recall, Mythbusters was testing the helicopter snorkel water intake and couldn't make it work.


With this much time for hateful, how about you lovesome?
 
2012-06-25 08:46:11 PM

Bschott007:

bobfloyd: Anyone who says we chose to live in a fire zone is totally clueless. There has NEVER been an event like this in the last 30-40 years at least.



Well, if you mean in the USA, you might be correct.

Otherwise, Australia (specifically Black Saturday) would like to have a word with you on this cute little bonfire.


I understand the weather on Venus gets pretty bad this time of year.

/equally relevant observation
 
2012-06-25 08:46:34 PM

Brian_of_Nazareth: change1211: Brian_of_Nazareth: Elimiscaf: the_immoral_minority: Are there just TWO C-130's??? There should be 20 or, fark, 200. We can transport millions of pounds of bombs to the other side of the world, but can't haul water/retardant to parts of the US. Come on, some of you fark-free thinkers out there - there's got to be a way to quickly load some kind of large bladder "bombs' on ....say a C-130, bombs that has a biodegradable skin that breaks apart upon dropping.

There are 4 in the US, 2 are here. I don't know why there aren't more but this is an unprecedented fire season. It's worse than 2002 and the Heyman Fire due to weather patterns and temps.

I think you need to clarify. I have no idea what the current fleet in the US is, but I'd bet a lot they have more than 4 E models in active service (some doing really kewl jobs), and hundreds of H and J kicking about. Unless you're referring specifically to C130s with the necessary kit to do the job at hand.

Cheers.

I can't even imagine what the skies would look like if you added 20-200 C-130's on top of the aircraft already working the fire. That just sounds like a recipe for a midair.

I think you missed a level of quote. I wasn't supporting the idea of large numbers of C130s in the air, I know just how difficult deconflicting that would be. I was asking after the statement that there were only 4 in the US. shiat, we had problems deconflicting half a dozen aircraft in uncontrolled airspace, I wouldn't even joke about considering 200.

Cheers


I did indeed, my mistake.

strutin: Mikey1969: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

There's one here that's pretty big. Halfway down the page.

Martin JRM Mars

7,200 US gallons per drop, (water or in flight mix gel load), 6 hours sustained operations and as little as 15 minutes between drops..so with the Hawaii and Philippines working in tandem you put 57,600 Gallons on the fire every hour..


Link

[www.martinmars.com image 640x161]

[farm7.static.flickr.com image 500x334]
/hot


It's amazing to watch those two planes work. I was camping in Osoyoos in the summer of 2004 (At least I think it was '04) and I spent all of my time on a jetski parked around 100 feet from where they would touch down in the water.
 
2012-06-25 08:48:01 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Uzzah: MaudlinMutantMollusk: AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.

I thought Mythbusters busted that one

Nope. As reported in the Reno Gazette, June of 1983 there is the story of a fire, the water that it took to contain the fire, and a scuba diver named Delmer Darion, employee of the Peppermill Hotel and Casino, Reno, Nevada. Engaged as a blackjack dealer. Well liked and well regarded as a physical, recreational and sporting sort, Delmer's true passion was for the lake. As reported by the coroner, Delmer died of a heart attack somewhere between the lake and the tree.

A most curious side note is the suicide the next day of Craig Hansen, volunteer firefighter, estranged father of four and a poor tendency to drink. Mr. Hansen was the pilot of the plane that quite accidentally lifted Delmer Darion out of the water. Added to this, Mr. Hansen's tortured life met before with Delmer Darion just two nights previous. The weight of the guilt and the measure of coincidence so large, Craig Hansen took his life.

And I am trying to think this was all only a matter of chance ... but no. These strange things happen all the time.

Ah. Thank you. I hadn't heard about an incident involving a plane. As I recall, Mythbusters was testing the helicopter snorkel water intake and couldn't make it work.


OK, you got your bits, the party's over: http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/scuba.asp
 
2012-06-25 08:52:10 PM

Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]


I just saw a piece on the news about prop planes making a comeback - apparently they use about half the fuel and one guy they interviewed claimed they are actually safer.

Link
 
2012-06-25 08:55:05 PM
www.evergreenaviation.com

Why haven't they called this bad boy in yet? Or did I hear they were grounded?

//link is hot of course. no offense.
 
2012-06-25 08:58:48 PM
Bits, bytes, bites...whatever.

On an unrelated note, according to the NIFC website, the numbers of acres burned to date in the US is well below the ten-year average (1.3 million acres versus 1.9). Not that that's any consolation to those folks affected.
 
2012-06-25 09:02:53 PM
First time the air force has been on US soil in 33 years. Oughta be interesting considering they haven't been trained for this
 
2012-06-25 09:09:46 PM

rohar: huckleberg: jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.

THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"

Except that not long ago, they weren't living in such a tinderbox. It occured around them over the past 30 years.


the biggest myth of which these folks are convinced is that people get what they deserve and deserve what they get. it's the just world hypothesis, and it's just not true.
 
2012-06-25 09:11:32 PM

WonderWendie: [www.evergreenaviation.com image 450x338]

Why haven't they called this bad boy in yet? Or did I hear they were grounded?

//link is hot of course. no offense.


Lack of power. You need bigger engines if you wanna fly simething like that in Colorado.
 
2012-06-25 09:13:53 PM

Gough: Bits, bytes, bites...whatever.

On an unrelated note, according to the NIFC website, the numbers of acres burned to date in the US is well below the ten-year average (1.3 million acres versus 1.9). Not that that's any consolation to those folks affected.


Westerners like to squawk, despite what you've heard about the restive cowboy...
 
2012-06-25 09:17:00 PM

bobfloyd: Bschott007:

bobfloyd: Anyone who says we chose to live in a fire zone is totally clueless. There has NEVER been an event like this in the last 30-40 years at least.


Well, if you mean in the USA, you might be correct.

Otherwise, Australia (specifically Black Saturday) would like to have a word with you on this cute little bonfire.


I understand the weather on Venus gets pretty bad this time of year.

/equally relevant observation


Well, your post made it sound like you believed this was the worst fire event in the world in the last 30-40 years. It isn't even close.

Now if you were specific about this being the worst fire since the 80-90's in Colorado, then you may be correct.

So, yes, it was a relevant comment.
 
2012-06-25 09:18:20 PM
*sigh*
Guess I have to post it myself....
photos1.blogger.com
 
2012-06-25 09:20:30 PM

groundrush: *sigh*
Guess I have to post it myself....
[photos1.blogger.com image 450x325]


You actually didn't have to post it at all.
 
2012-06-25 09:20:50 PM
jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.
THIS.

Really? Where should people live then that is not a fire zone? I've never been anywhere where there was nothing to burn.

I do wonder how much of this assistance that the air force is offering has to do with the fire being right outside their academy.
 
2012-06-25 09:22:17 PM
Well, your post made it sound like you believed this was the worst fire event in the world in the last 30-40 years. It isn't even close.

er.. no, he was responding to the person who said he was living in a fire zone.
 
2012-06-25 09:31:20 PM

CapnBlues: rohar: huckleberg: jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.

THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"

Except that not long ago, they weren't living in such a tinderbox. It occured around them over the past 30 years.

the biggest myth of which these folks are convinced is that people get what they deserve and deserve what they get. it's the just world hypothesis, and it's just not true.


The irony is it's possible the rest of us did this to them. Pine beetle outbreaks are creating huge swaths of dead dry trees. It's not freesing hard enough in the winter to kill the beetles off like it used to.

Wonder what changed?
 
2012-06-25 09:33:23 PM
 
2012-06-25 09:38:17 PM
Fark, I am disappoint.
d1g4sq00ps2bp3.cloudfront.net
 
2012-06-25 09:38:18 PM

groundrush: *sigh*
Guess I have to post it myself....
[photos1.blogger.com image 450x325]


"Cast the what?"
 
2012-06-25 09:46:58 PM

RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 587x721]

Wildfiretoday.com - How to install a MAFFS II in a C-130J - Posted on June 25, 2012 by Bill Gabbert


Stupid Bill Gabbert... Those are C-130Hs, not C-130Js. 4 prop blades vs 6.
 
2012-06-25 09:57:36 PM
Godspeed gentlemen, godspeed.
 
2012-06-25 09:58:49 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: AdolfOliverPanties: [t1.gstatic.com image 300x200]

Damn plane scooped too low.

I thought Mythbusters busted that one


They did. I thought it was a true story.
 
2012-06-25 10:07:14 PM

RoyBatty: [subversatile.net image 450x301]

I heard we were taking on fire at Waldo Canyon. I responded with C-130s.


An SR-71 doing Mach 3 at 1500 feet might blow out the fire with the shock wave.
 
2012-06-25 10:09:59 PM
rohar

CapnBlues: rohar: huckleberg: jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.

THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"

Except that not long ago, they weren't living in such a tinderbox. It occured around them over the past 30 years.

the biggest myth of which these folks are convinced is that people get what they deserve and deserve what they get. it's the just world hypothesis, and it's just not true.

The irony is it's possible the rest of us did this to them. Pine beetle outbreaks are creating huge swaths of dead dry trees. It's not freesing hard enough in the winter to kill the beetles off like it used to.

Wonder what changed?


Learn how to spell.

Beetle problems are from mismanagement and fire suppression. Find my other post and read it, or have someone read it to you.

Look up "forest succession", "encroachment" and "pioneer species".
 
2012-06-25 10:11:00 PM

Mad-n-FL: RoyBatty: [subversatile.net image 450x301]

I heard we were taking on fire at Waldo Canyon. I responded with C-130s.

An SR-71 doing Mach 3 at 1500 feet might blow out the fire with the shock wave.


Naw, let's B1-B'em...
 
2012-06-25 10:21:51 PM

Mad-n-FL: An SR-71 doing Mach 3 at 1500 feet might blow out the fire with the shock wave.


or have the air pressure outside the transonic cone ignite additional spot fires. . .
 
2012-06-25 10:31:31 PM

Proteios1: First time the air force has been on US soil in 33 years. Oughta be interesting considering they haven't been trained for this


ANG trains for it, there's a reason the conversion kits for C130s exist in the first place, and a better reason they store a couple of em out at Buckley... every Coloradan has known this fire season was gonna be tough since about march or so... once we realized no snow was coming.
 
2012-06-25 10:35:46 PM

New Age Redneck: rohar

CapnBlues: rohar: huckleberg: jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.

THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"

Except that not long ago, they weren't living in such a tinderbox. It occured around them over the past 30 years.

the biggest myth of which these folks are convinced is that people get what they deserve and deserve what they get. it's the just world hypothesis, and it's just not true.

The irony is it's possible the rest of us did this to them. Pine beetle outbreaks are creating huge swaths of dead dry trees. It's not freesing hard enough in the winter to kill the beetles off like it used to.

Wonder what changed?

Learn how to spell.

Beetle problems are from mismanagement and fire suppression. Find my other post and read it, or have someone read it to you.

Look up "forest succession", "encroachment" and "pioneer species".


Funny, the University of British Columbia, Department of Forest Sciences says we're both right.

In the end, I stand by my previous statement. These people didn't move in to a fire zone. We all had a hand in it becomming one. Obviously we all should have a hand in dealing with it.
 
2012-06-25 10:45:19 PM

RoyBatty: groundrush: *sigh*
Guess I have to post it myself....
[photos1.blogger.com image 450x325]

You actually didn't have to post it at all.


that post should be on par with posting the mexican cycling accident..(and I guess I shouldn't call it an 'accident'..)

/posting pics of people dying should be an instant vacation, imho
 
2012-06-25 10:46:51 PM

Dinodork: RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 587x721]

Wildfiretoday.com - How to install a MAFFS II in a C-130J - Posted on June 25, 2012 by Bill Gabbert

Stupid Bill Gabbert... Those are C-130Hs, not C-130Js. 4 prop blades vs 6.


Those were F-16 Eagles.
 
2012-06-25 10:55:54 PM
They should be ready after those training missions in Vermont last week.
 
2012-06-25 11:08:39 PM
I've had that red sludge dropped right on me. Don't think they new we were down there.

Forest Service fire crew, a long time ago when I was actually fit. Always wondered how carcinogenic that stuff is. Of course breathing all that smoke isn't so good either. Your boogers are black for a week.
 
2012-06-25 11:14:39 PM

WonderWendie: [www.evergreenaviation.com image 450x338]

Why haven't they called this bad boy in yet? Or did I hear they were grounded?

//link is hot of course. no offense.


I think they turned it into a waterpark: http://www.evergreenmuseum.org/waterpark/
 
2012-06-25 11:16:12 PM
rohar

These people didn't move in to a fire zone.

Yes they did. If you live in or near pine forests you live in a potential fire zone. I live in a fire zone, pine forests burn, they have for millions of years. The problem is from suppressing fire for 50 years the fuel build-up will result in catastrophic fires. If we had let frequent low-intensity fires do their thing we wouldn't have the situation we are in now. It would have also aided in reducing the beetle problem, here on the west side of the Rockies we've NEVER had extended long cold winters....ever! Fire would be one of the more effective ways of reducing pine beetle populations. Pine is a pioneering species it is supposed to die after 80-100 years while providing shade for fir (climax species) that live 400-600 years.
We have caused the problem by thinking we should put out ever fire, it is our meddling that has caused the problem.
Forest fires are a weather related thing not climate related. Lightning, spring weather patterns, fuel loads, human carelessness, etc. are factors in forest fires.
Fantastic that you feel we should "save" the world, I am all for it. That said, maybe we should try and learn a little bit about how it actually works, that way when we're actually making things worse like with fire suppression, we may better understand mother nature doesn't need our help.
 
2012-06-25 11:22:57 PM

Brian_of_Nazareth: ProfessorOhki: Charlie Freak: firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.

For really low-level work, I'd stick with the piston engine prop-jobs. There is no spool-up time with them - torque is direct and instantaneous.

Can any of you plane guys tell us if there's a distinct advantage/disadvantage of prop vs. jet when going through really hot air? Or is it not an issue at the altitude they'd be dropping from?

Short version is that a turbo-prop (the herc) is burning a lot more fuel at those altitudes (it's still essentially a jet, just very high bypass) and it's primary internal components are at risk with airborne ash. Piston driven engines have significant advantages at lower altitudes and they are much less susceptible to damage by ash, though air starvation is a risk.



Came to say this, thanks for putting it better that I would have.
 
2012-06-26 12:00:01 AM

New Age Redneck: rohar

These people didn't move in to a fire zone.

Yes they did. If you live in or near pine forests you live in a potential fire zone. I live in a fire zone, pine forests burn, they have for millions of years. The problem is from suppressing fire for 50 years the fuel build-up will result in catastrophic fires. If we had let frequent low-intensity fires do their thing we wouldn't have the situation we are in now. It would have also aided in reducing the beetle problem, here on the west side of the Rockies we've NEVER had extended long cold winters....ever! Fire would be one of the more effective ways of reducing pine beetle populations. Pine is a pioneering species it is supposed to die after 80-100 years while providing shade for fir (climax species) that live 400-600 years.
We have caused the problem by thinking we should put out ever fire, it is our meddling that has caused the problem.
Forest fires are a weather related thing not climate related. Lightning, spring weather patterns, fuel loads, human carelessness, etc. are factors in forest fires.
Fantastic that you feel we should "save" the world, I am all for it. That said, maybe we should try and learn a little bit about how it actually works, that way when we're actually making things worse like with fire suppression, we may better understand mother nature doesn't need our help.


It depends on where you live, Where Rohar and I live, Ponderosa pine, not fir, would be the dominant tree species on most sites. Before fire suppression started ~100 years ago, the area around here was mainly widely-spaced P. pine. There were low-intensity fires every 5-7 years, on the average, which favored fire-resistant species like Ponderosa.

To fire-scape our Tree Farm, we're in the midst of trying to recreate that situation: thinning the trees and introducing periodic low-intensity fire.
 
2012-06-26 12:08:41 AM

notmtwain: Wow, fighting a 5,000 acre fire with a plane that can carry almost 3000 gallons of water at a time.

I'll bet they can effectively cover up to five acres with just one plane.

// They have a couple hundred of those planes, right?




Back in the mid 90's I worked for the MNR - can't remember where exactly, but it must have been somewhere around Armstrong. There was a forest fire burning a couple of kms away so the air was smokey/hazy (but it wasn't coming right for us, so we didn't shoot it). One of the CL-215's buzzed right over our heads and I got a fairly good picture, but I moved way too many times to be able to keep track of where that picture ended up.

Then a couple of summers later I was working at PNFI; our research plots were right on the Petawawa base. We were frequently buzzed by CF-130's doing various training routines and they were so close we could see the tech's sitting at the back passenger door (not the loading ramp) waiting to do their thing.

I have now told you absolutely nothing, and you are welcome.
 
2012-06-26 12:18:55 AM
WOW, a fark load of stupid in this thread. More than just trolls but true farking stupidity!

Good luck friends and family, stay safe.
 
2012-06-26 12:22:52 AM
groundrush 2012-06-25 09:18:20 PM

[redacted]


go f*ck yourself you ghoul

PLONK
 
2012-06-26 12:24:11 AM

stvdallas: The The PGM-38/U Enhanced 25 mm High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) round would probably cause more fires than it puts out, right?



Not if it consumed all of the available oxygen, it wouldn't.

Oh, wait, my bad. You specifically stated it was an incendiary....... my mistake. I think someone did try to BOMB a fire with an actual bomb (the theory being that if the nearby oxygen was consumed, the fire would be snuffed out) but obviously that was not deemed to be effective.
 
2012-06-26 12:31:23 AM

ProfessorOhki: Charlie Freak: firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.

For really low-level work, I'd stick with the piston engine prop-jobs. There is no spool-up time with them - torque is direct and instantaneous.

Can any of you plane guys tell us if there's a distinct advantage/disadvantage of prop vs. jet when going through really hot air? Or is it not an issue at the altitude they'd be dropping from?




I am certainly not a 'plane guy' but I'll spout off anyway, as is my right.

From the descriptions I read about the CL-215 and 415's, props let the plane have a slower stall speed, so they can fly slower right near the target to choose the best place to dump the retardent (and MAYBE slower over a smaller lake while reloading). But this isn't exactly an issue with going through hot air.
 
2012-06-26 12:33:06 AM

jaytkay: My cousin has been evacuated from the Ute Pass where my great-grandparents built their home in the 1880s so I'm not getting a kick out of these replies...




Ute have a good reason to be concerned about that PASSable structure.
 
2012-06-26 12:33:41 AM

serialsuicidebomber: stvdallas: The The PGM-38/U Enhanced 25 mm High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) round would probably cause more fires than it puts out, right?


Not if it consumed all of the available oxygen, it wouldn't.

Oh, wait, my bad. You specifically stated it was an incendiary....... my mistake. I think someone did try to BOMB a fire with an actual bomb (the theory being that if the nearby oxygen was consumed, the fire would be snuffed out) but obviously that was not deemed to be effective.


It worked for these guys. Sort of.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-06-26 12:35:33 AM

strutin: RoyBatty: groundrush: *sigh*
Guess I have to post it myself....
[photos1.blogger.com image 450x325]

You actually didn't have to post it at all.

that post should be on par with posting the mexican cycling accident..(and I guess I shouldn't call it an 'accident'..)

/posting pics of people dying should be an instant vacation, imho


I agree. (Although I would allow free cat)
 
2012-06-26 12:35:37 AM
Gough

It depends on where you live, Where Rohar and I live, Ponderosa pine, not fir, would be the dominant tree species on most sites. Before fire suppression started ~100 years ago, the area around here was mainly widely-spaced P. pine. There were low-intensity fires every 5-7 years, on the average, which favored fire-resistant species like Ponderosa.

To fire-scape our Tree Farm, we're in the midst of trying to recreate that situation: thinning the trees and introducing periodic low-intensity fire.


Yep. Solid plan do what mother nature does.

It is hard to sell the idea of prescribed burns and thinning to people that are just anti fire for some reason. We are doing the same management you are practicing around our town it has been a great wet spring to do lots of burning. It is amazing the amount of fuel that builds up in a short time.

As well we have ponderosa pine here as well it is a dry site climax species but gets encroached upon by fir due to fire suppression.

I was just trying to point out to folks that forests work in cycles, "succession", and that lodgepole pine is a pioneer species, it is supposed to die it's part of the cycle.
Just like a wet site here would have cedar/ hemlock as a climax forest, or high elevation would be a spruce climax forest subalpine fir being a pioneer species.

Sorry I am a tree geek.

img267.imageshack.us

Results of a prescribed burn near Banff.

img100.imageshack.us

I like big cedars.

img842.imageshack.us

I like big cedars.

img171.imageshack.us

Douglas fir encroachment in ponderosa pine near Syringa Creek BC.
 
2012-06-26 12:38:44 AM

nobs81: ProfessorOhki: Charlie Freak: firefly212: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

payload capacity is all that matters for these things, propulsion type is irrelevant... push come to shove, I'd take a prop, it's slower and has the ability to be slightly more accurate.

Military kinda had to step in to fight this one though, it's at Fort Carson's doorstep.

For really low-level work, I'd stick with the piston engine prop-jobs. There is no spool-up time with them - torque is direct and instantaneous.

Can any of you plane guys tell us if there's a distinct advantage/disadvantage of prop vs. jet when going through really hot air? Or is it not an issue at the altitude they'd be dropping from?

the problem is not really the hot air, it is the ash and other small particles that would shred the internals of a jet engine



Oh, good answer. My mistake...... I shoulda thought of the passenger plane that flew through a (???Philippines???) volcanic ash cloud in the early 90's.
 
2012-06-26 12:38:45 AM

algrant33: This shiat's about 5 miles from my house. Last night we were completely inundated with smoke, just like the entire south side of town.

It's awfully fun to watch what amounts to a 30-foot tall bonfire just up the hill after sundown, though.


I am next to UCCS and I went out expecting smoke and chuckled that it was completely skipping central Colorado Springs. Just another reason I am glad that I don't live in the south end of the city. And yeah....those flames are crazy.
 
2012-06-26 12:42:28 AM

Mikey1969: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

Yeah, but C-130's are huge... I was inside of this thing at Hill, AFB, and I could have lived inside of it. I'd love to know how much more space is in the C-130.

C-124C "GLOBEMASTER II"

/Thing was so big that try as I might, I couldn't find Waldo anywhere...




TRUE, dat.

/although I think it was a C5-Galaxy that I walked though (along with 10 to 15 people shoulder to shoulder) at an air show here in Ottawa years ago. I used to think that a Herc was big...... now I see I was wrong. First time ever, I swear.
 
2012-06-26 12:43:11 AM
So the Springs is 6,500 ft ASL.
TEmp was supposed to be near 100'F hotter over the fire. What at density altitude are those planes operating?
 
2012-06-26 12:44:49 AM

New Age Redneck: Gough

It depends on where you live, Where Rohar and I live, Ponderosa pine, not fir, would be the dominant tree species on most sites. Before fire suppression started ~100 years ago, the area around here was mainly widely-spaced P. pine. There were low-intensity fires every 5-7 years, on the average, which favored fire-resistant species like Ponderosa.

To fire-scape our Tree Farm, we're in the midst of trying to recreate that situation: thinning the trees and introducing periodic low-intensity fire.

Yep. Solid plan do what mother nature does.

It is hard to sell the idea of prescribed burns and thinning to people that are just anti fire for some reason. We are doing the same management you are practicing around our town it has been a great wet spring to do lots of burning. It is amazing the amount of fuel that builds up in a short time.

As well we have ponderosa pine here as well it is a dry site climax species but gets encroached upon by fir due to fire suppression.

I was just trying to point out to folks that forests work in cycles, "succession", and that lodgepole pine is a pioneer species, it is supposed to die it's part of the cycle.
Just like a wet site here would have cedar/ hemlock as a climax forest, or high elevation would be a spruce climax forest subalpine fir being a pioneer species.

Sorry I am a tree geek.

[img267.imageshack.us image 640x480]

Results of a prescribed burn near Banff.

[img100.imageshack.us image 640x480]

I like big cedars.

[img842.imageshack.us image 640x480]

I like big cedars.

[img171.imageshack.us image 240x320]

Douglas fir encroachment in ponderosa pine near Syringa Creek BC.


No apology necessary.
 
2012-06-26 12:45:18 AM

Proletariat In Charge: So, with all the farkers here in the springs, should we get a Fark party going? Kinda like a hurricane party?


Yes, count me in.
 
2012-06-26 12:46:50 AM

Mikey1969: Arkanaut: Maud Dib: Screw prop planes, they need this bad boy. Saw it at work in the Texas wildfires last year.


[thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]

That one probably needs a longer runway though.

What I'm wondering is if we have those planes that can scoop up water from a nearby lake and dump it on a fire. I think we used to use converted PBY's, and the Russians have built some using more recent airframes.

Example:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 639x480]

There's one here that's pretty big. Halfway down the page.

Martin JRM Mars




BEAUTIFULL link ! ! !

Near the bottom is a DC-10 that can carry 12000 gallons of water....... and it has windows so that the fish can look out to see what it's like to fly. How nice ! ! !
 
2012-06-26 12:54:29 AM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Dinodork: RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 587x721]

Wildfiretoday.com - How to install a MAFFS II in a C-130J - Posted on June 25, 2012 by Bill Gabbert

Stupid Bill Gabbert... Those are C-130Hs, not C-130Js. 4 prop blades vs 6.

Those were F-16 Eagles.


No no no... There is such a thing as a F-15 Eagle, or a F-16 Falcon, but no combination. Anyone in their right mind knows that's an extreme close-up of an AK-47.

blog.robballen.com

/the more you know...
 
2012-06-26 01:00:06 AM

New Age Redneck: rohar

These people didn't move in to a fire zone.

Yes they did. If you live in or near pine forests you live in a potential fire zone. I live in a fire zone, pine forests burn, they have for millions of years. The problem is from suppressing fire for 50 years the fuel build-up will result in catastrophic fires. If we had let frequent low-intensity fires do their thing we wouldn't have the situation we are in now. It would have also aided in reducing the beetle problem, here on the west side of the Rockies we've NEVER had extended long cold winters....ever! Fire would be one of the more effective ways of reducing pine beetle populations. Pine is a pioneering species it is supposed to die after 80-100 years while providing shade for fir (climax species) that live 400-600 years.
We have caused the problem by thinking we should put out ever fire, it is our meddling that has caused the problem.
Forest fires are a weather related thing not climate related. Lightning, spring weather patterns, fuel loads, human carelessness, etc. are factors in forest fires.
Fantastic that you feel we should "save" the world, I am all for it. That said, maybe we should try and learn a little bit about how it actually works, that way when we're actually making things worse like with fire suppression, we may better understand mother nature doesn't need our help.


Funny thing. I'm actually AGREEING with you.

In the end, it's somewhat immaterial. Within 10 years all the adult pine in Colorado will be dead. You add that to all the rest of the fuel already there due to fire suppression, there's no way we're gonna be able to stop the fire. We're alreadly likely past the point of no return.

Only question left is what to do about the people in the middle of it.
 
2012-06-26 01:05:49 AM
Flight Chiefed on C-124s.
Good reliable plane and engines. don't think their wings are stressed for fire tanker stuff.

Why not Firefighter version of the Antonov 125? Or it's big brother?

A year or two back the Russkies offered use of an IL-76 slurry tanker the Federales declined their help.
 
2012-06-26 01:06:24 AM

Thats an 827: So the Springs is 6,500 ft ASL.
TEmp was supposed to be near 100'F hotter over the fire. What at density altitude are those planes operating?


It;s higher on the west side too. 100 degrees today, I'm at 6700 feet. I get 10658 ft density altitude at my house, estimate closer to 12,000 feet where they're dropping over the hill. I hear the IR survey plane up now, I'm off to go moon it.
 
2012-06-26 01:26:36 AM
rohar

Funny thing. I'm actually AGREEING with you.

In the end, it's somewhat immaterial. Within 10 years all the adult pine in Colorado will be dead. You add that to all the rest of the fuel already there due to fire suppression, there's no way we're gonna be able to stop the fire. We're alreadly likely past the point of no return.

Only question left is what to do about the people in the middle of it.


Yes, I realize that. I disagree on the climate thing and as you say it really doesn't matter.

Regarding the catastrophic fires, yes I agree, we're not stopping them. I watched the Pend O'Reille fire here from my house in 2007 it burned 23 square kilometers and jumped a river, pretty sobering. As I said in another forest fire thread; we're boned.

Regarding people and property, the approach Gough mentioned above, thinning and fuel reduction via frequent low intensity fires, around habitations is a great start. Educating people on the fire process and how it works in pine forests is a good idea too, I really don't think people get it. I am amazed at how few people where I live have no plan at all regarding fire when it is a serious possibility. Prescribed burns would help as well where possible.
 
2012-06-26 01:34:51 AM

Thats an 827: Flight Chiefed on C-124s.
Good reliable plane and engines. don't think their wings are stressed for fire tanker stuff.

Why not Firefighter version of the Antonov 125? Or it's big brother?

A year or two back the Russkies offered use of an IL-76 slurry tanker the Federales declined their help.


We HAVE plenty of slurry bombers, just not many on USFS contract. Getting the MAFFS Herks in was a minor miracle from Congressman Lamborn (who, coincidentally, is in the republican primary tomorrow...) since commercial firefighters don't like federal competition.

Reading through the 2012-13 bids, we're adding a few more BaE-146s, a couple MD-87s (a new and untested type) and one RJ-85 (basically an improved -146). The DHC-8-300s were rejected, there are no P-3s, C-130s, large pistons (previously Privateers, C-97s, DC4/6/7s. C-119s were used) an no russian types are on the docket.

Not that there's anywhere nearby that a scooper could use anyway. The whole CL214/414, BE-200, Martin Mars argument is irrelevant).
 
2012-06-26 01:45:11 AM
www.supermotors.net

We can flush 'em out, by fighting fire with fire.
 
rka
2012-06-26 02:32:37 AM

bobfloyd: I was evac'd out yesterday morning, but they let us go back home last night. Incredibly hot and dry with no sign of relief for at least the next week. Walking outside is miserable with all the smoke in the air. They're saying the fire is 5% contained which may not seem like much, but that's 5% more than it's been for the last two days.

Anyone who says we chose to live in a fire zone is totally clueless. There has NEVER been an event like this in the last 30-40 years at least.


So basically a 50-60% chance in your lifetime. (assuming an average age of 80 years or so).

We're not talking earth shattering odds here. People do choose to live in fire zones and this is what happens. I personally don't *blame* anyone but don't cry "How could we have known?". It's insulting.

shiat burns, people come and help put it out. It's expensive. Either via taxes or insurance rates we all help each other out.

But then some dumb farks go vote Tea Party.
 
2012-06-26 08:36:53 AM

MeSoHomely: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: Dinodork: RoyBatty: [i.imgur.com image 587x721]

Wildfiretoday.com - How to install a MAFFS II in a C-130J - Posted on June 25, 2012 by Bill Gabbert

Stupid Bill Gabbert... Those are C-130Hs, not C-130Js. 4 prop blades vs 6.

Those were F-16 Eagles.

No no no... There is such a thing as a F-15 Eagle, or a F-16 Falcon, but no combination. Anyone in their right mind knows that's an extreme close-up of an AK-47.



/the more you know...


I don't know man... I think an AK-47 has a longer clip. If I had a Guns and Ammo magazine, I could look it up.
 
2012-06-26 09:59:12 AM
altfast.ru
"Sir, every time I fire at the fire, it makes more fire!"
 
2012-06-26 10:02:09 AM

Proteios1: First time the air force has been on US soil in 33 years. Oughta be interesting considering they haven't been trained for this


bensladerealty.com
Actualy the Air Force has been on US soil for some time now. About 83 years and countin, so far.
 
2012-06-26 10:31:33 AM

New Age Redneck: rohar

CapnBlues: rohar: huckleberg: jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.

THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"

Except that not long ago, they weren't living in such a tinderbox. It occured around them over the past 30 years.

the biggest myth of which these folks are convinced is that people get what they deserve and deserve what they get. it's the just world hypothesis, and it's just not true.

The irony is it's possible the rest of us did this to them. Pine beetle outbreaks are creating huge swaths of dead dry trees. It's not freesing hard enough in the winter to kill the beetles off like it used to.

Wonder what changed?

Learn how to spell.

Beetle problems are from mismanagement and fire suppression. Find my other post and read it, or have someone read it to you.

Look up "forest succession", "encroachment" and "pioneer species".


Apparently the open space managers here in Boulder went back and looked at photos of our mountains from the 1800s and realized that the ponderosa are an order of magnitude thicker than they used to be. So they announced a very unpopular plan to start thinning one particular mountain back so there's isolated clumps of ponderosa surrounded by meadow like in the photos. The idea is that the clumps are actually far enough apart that canopy fire can't spread from one to the other.

The problems come because you're talking about cutting down a slew of 100 year old trees. Some idiots want to selectively save all the old ones and not leave any
\Selfishly hoping we don't get wind from Fort Collins again. It was so smokey in Boulder the other day, I could hardly see the mountains. Flashbacks to LA.
 
2012-06-26 10:33:24 AM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: The problems come because you're talking about cutting down a slew of 100 year old trees. Some idiots want to selectively save all the old ones and not leave any


Ah, I should know better than to try to use a less than sign. That should've read not leave any under 50 year old trees to be the new 100 year old trees 50 years from now.
 
2012-06-26 10:48:24 AM

Thats an 827: So the Springs is 6,500 ft ASL.
TEmp was supposed to be near 100'F hotter over the fire. What at density altitude are those planes operating?


Pressure altitude is a little lower than indicated right now due to high pressure over the area. Fire is happening anywhere from the 7,500' level to the peaks at about 9,000'. Given a couple hundred feet for terrain clearance and add the midday temperature, and the E6B says you're looking at between 11,500' and 14,000' density altitude, depending on if you're at the base or the peak.
 
2012-06-26 10:48:27 AM
rohar

My apologies for the rude tone of a couple of my posts, that was completely uncalled for.
 
2012-06-26 11:00:46 AM
As a former Colo Springs resident... good luck guys and we will be thinking of ya.
 
2012-06-26 11:20:33 AM

New Age Redneck: rohar

My apologies for the rude tone of a couple of my posts, that was completely uncalled for.


No worries man. It's obviously something you're VERY passionate about and not enough are.

We've got 100 years of mismanagement about to bite us in the ass. We've had controlled burn programs funded since the late '80s and only 12%-15% of the funding has been used that was allocated to MT and CO. We know damned well we're in trouble but absolutely refuse to change our ways.

As you know, at this point, we're probably too far gone in CO. Sometime in the next 5 years we're going to have a massive incident. The whole state's gonna look like Yellowstone did a few years ago.

/and someone appologizing on FARK?
//isn't that agains the rules or something? :)
 
2012-06-26 11:25:50 AM
I guess it's doubtful whether this plane would be good fighting fires, but screw it, it's my favorite plane.
Ladies and gentlemen, the C-5M Supergalaxy.

3.bp.blogspot.com

Standing by the runway watching and hearing one of these land is awesome and surreal.
 
2012-06-26 11:37:15 AM

Stephen_Falken: I guess it's doubtful whether this plane would be good fighting fires, but screw it, it's my favorite plane.
Ladies and gentlemen, the C-5M Supergalaxy.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]

Standing by the runway watching and hearing one of these land is awesome and surreal.


I can't say that I'm an expert on that model (flew in several while on tour with the Army), but I think there would be a serious question of maneuverability. Considering how much trouble those birds had taking off from Pope AFB with a full load of equipment and only a partial load of fuel, I would imagine that you would be better off to use a number of C-130s or C-141s before bringing in the C-5.

Still, it was pretty cool to see the one I deployed in just before we left. 7 helicopters, 1 Hemmitt, 2 Hummvees, and 70 of us with all our gear and toolboxes. The seating upstairs? That sucked. I still appreciate that we flew back on Southwest.
 
2012-06-26 11:37:25 AM

Stephen_Falken: I guess it's doubtful whether this plane would be good fighting fires, but screw it, it's my favorite plane.
Ladies and gentlemen, the C-5M Supergalaxy.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]

Standing by the runway watching and hearing one of these land is awesome and surreal.


I was at Rhein Main working on the flight line in the lead up to Desert Storm. NAF employee for 37th TAS. The arival times for C-5s were seperated in minutes rather than hours. You'd think after seeing so many hit the ground, load them up, then watch them go again you'd get used to it. Won't happen. It's an AMAZING sight.

/also, worst way to fly across the Atlantic ever
 
2012-06-26 12:55:19 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: New Age Redneck: rohar

CapnBlues: rohar: huckleberg: jackthezomber: what a waste of resources. let it burn, and don't live in a fire zone, dumbasses.

THIS.

the truth is ugly, and smells like my asshole. that's why we call it the truth, instead of "a good story" or "such a wonderful idea"

Except that not long ago, they weren't living in such a tinderbox. It occured around them over the past 30 years.

the biggest myth of which these folks are convinced is that people get what they deserve and deserve what they get. it's the just world hypothesis, and it's just not true.

The irony is it's possible the rest of us did this to them. Pine beetle outbreaks are creating huge swaths of dead dry trees. It's not freesing hard enough in the winter to kill the beetles off like it used to.

Wonder what changed?

Learn how to spell.

Beetle problems are from mismanagement and fire suppression. Find my other post and read it, or have someone read it to you.

Look up "forest succession", "encroachment" and "pioneer species".

Apparently the open space managers here in Boulder went back and looked at photos of our mountains from the 1800s and realized that the ponderosa are an order of magnitude thicker than they used to be. So they announced a very unpopular plan to start thinning one particular mountain back so there's isolated clumps of ponderosa surrounded by meadow like in the photos. The idea is that the clumps are actually far enough apart that canopy fire can't spread from one to the other.

The problems come because you're talking about cutting down a slew of 100 year old trees. Some idiots want to selectively save all the old ones and not leave any
\Selfishly hoping we don't get wind from Fort Collins again. It was so smokey in Boulder the other day, I could hardly see the mountains. Flashbacks to LA.


We can see the same thing around here in the old photos. What we're trying to do is work our Tree Farm back to something close to "pre-settlement conditions". The density and spacing of trees does look a little sparse to our modern perception of "forest", but we've also been able to conduct low-intensity controlled burns with no major problems. I only hope we can get a few more surrounding landowners on board.

About ten years ago, we had a wildfire in the area. Our local extension forester had carefully firescaped his property. The only problem was that his neighbors hadn't. The intensity of fire all around his property was high enough to defeat his efforts and he lost his home in the fire.
 
2012-06-26 01:35:04 PM
You magnificent pagan GOD!
 
2012-06-26 01:35:25 PM

Dinodork: Thats an 827: Flight Chiefed on C-124s.
Good reliable plane and engines. don't think their wings are stressed for fire tanker stuff.

Why not Firefighter version of the Antonov 125? Or it's big brother?

A year or two back the Russkies offered use of an IL-76 slurry tanker the Federales declined their help.

We HAVE plenty of slurry bombers, just not many on USFS contract. Getting the MAFFS Herks in was a minor miracle from Congressman Lamborn (who, coincidentally, is in the republican primary tomorrow...) since commercial firefighters don't like federal competition.

Reading through the 2012-13 bids, we're adding a few more BaE-146s, a couple MD-87s (a new and untested type) and one RJ-85 (basically an improved -146). The DHC-8-300s were rejected, there are no P-3s, C-130s, large pistons (previously Privateers, C-97s, DC4/6/7s. C-119s were used) an no russian types are on the docket.

Not that there's anywhere nearby that a scooper could use anyway. The whole CL214/414, BE-200, Martin Mars argument is irrelevant).


Never understood why they rejected the new DHC-8's, they're great aircraft.
 
2012-06-26 03:15:14 PM
New Age Redneck and Gough

Not sure you're still watching this thread. I recently moved to a new property. It's heavily treed which is both a blessing and a curse. I'm pretty sure I'm living on a 10 acre tinderbox.

While I know the things that should be done on paper, I have no idea on how to start executing. Gotta admit, there's been more than one day where I thought about firing up the chainsaw and going nuts.

We're all in pretty much the same boat as far as species and geography go. You don't get two tree guys in your neighborhood very often so I thought I'd ask. Where the hell do I start?
 
2012-06-26 03:59:38 PM

rohar: New Age Redneck and Gough

Not sure you're still watching this thread. I recently moved to a new property. It's heavily treed which is both a blessing and a curse. I'm pretty sure I'm living on a 10 acre tinderbox.

While I know the things that should be done on paper, I have no idea on how to start executing. Gotta admit, there's been more than one day where I thought about firing up the chainsaw and going nuts.

We're all in pretty much the same boat as far as species and geography go. You don't get two tree guys in your neighborhood very often so I thought I'd ask. Where the hell do I start?


I'd suggest contacting a forester. I'm not sure how WA handles it, but I know there are foresters who work for the ID Department of Lands and I assume WA has similar arrangements.

There are also private consulting foresters. I'm not sure about the GEG area, but I know some of the principals in a consulting firm in Sandpoint who work all around the region.

From our experience, it's a long-term project, even on a modest-sized plot. Work with some pros to make a plan and re-visit that plan on a regular basis. Over the years, we've worked with university faculty and students, state foresters, SCS (now NRCS) foresters, private consulting foresters, and several logging companies. Good luck.
 
rka
2012-06-26 05:16:43 PM
From my office downtown I'm watching a new fire start up just west of Boulder. Lightning came through around noon and touched off a few in the area.

Boulder Daily Camera website has the story.

http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_20942065/boulder-co u nty-officials-responding-reports-two-small-grassfires
 
2012-06-26 05:44:29 PM
Now children can play a new game "Where is Waldo's Ashes?".
 
2012-06-26 06:55:12 PM
rohar

Gough offers some good advice. Even before you get a consultant you can do your own assessment of what species you have, approximate age, fuel load (ie. if the duff is a foot deep or lots of sticks and fallen trees), aspect (is the land flat? does it have differences in topography?, if there is pine is there green attack (little piles of sap and saw dust), history of the site (previous fires, or other significant disturbances), doug fir on the site (Armillaria? root rot makes for hazardous trees), etc.

The BC Ministry of Forests has some stuff on land management online that would be worth checking. The guy responsible for the fire mitigation work here in the Kootenays, check this article, has a reference to a US program
 
2012-06-26 10:45:29 PM

rohar: Stephen_Falken: I guess it's doubtful whether this plane would be good fighting fires, but screw it, it's my favorite plane.
Ladies and gentlemen, the C-5M Supergalaxy.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]

Standing by the runway watching and hearing one of these land is awesome and surreal.

I was at Rhein Main working on the flight line in the lead up to Desert Storm. NAF employee for 37th TAS. The arival times for C-5s were seperated in minutes rather than hours. You'd think after seeing so many hit the ground, load them up, then watch them go again you'd get used to it. Won't happen. It's an AMAZING sight.

/also, worst way to fly across the Atlantic ever


When I was stationed at Norfolk Naval Station C-5s would fly into the Air Station about half a mile away on the other side of the base. The flight path went directly over some of the piers...when the C-5s were landing it looked like they were trying to land on the ship! Then the rumble as they flew over just a couple hundred feet up...awesome!
 
2012-06-27 10:28:14 PM
Spooky.
 
2012-06-29 12:16:11 AM
Whoever came up with:

TNCGWEITAIHNDHA



....... that was simply beautifull. And it's easy to pronounce if you think of it as the native Innu word for masturbate.
 
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