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(Huffington Post UK)   Since the "intelligent design" argument wasn't really panning out, fundamentalists created a brand new theory to teach kids: the Loch Ness monster disproves evolution   (huffingtonpost.co.uk) divider line 978
    More: Asinine, Loch Ness Monster, Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education, Loch Ness, intelligent design, minority religion, fundamentalists, Darwinism, private schools  
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14313 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2012 at 2:53 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-26 03:58:48 PM

Epicedion: Kit Fister: I dunno about anyone else, but it sure is annoying that some people who choose atheism don't just stop at choosing atheism, but become evangelical to the extent that they must belittle and berate those who choose to believe in some higher power.

Does it scare you so much that some rational human beings can see the extent of scientific discovery and still feel that there is more to it than what we are able to understand?

Do you think it's more wrong than confronting ghost hunters and alien abductees, or less?


I think it's more wrong, especially to confront those who aren't out there publicizing their beliefs. If someone says "yes, I believe in ghosts" and people jump all over them, it's as bad as bashing religious folks who just happen to be religious.

Now if the person is out there actively pushing their beliefs, they deserve whatever they get in response.
 
2012-06-26 03:59:10 PM

Kit Fister: However I've met more than a few people who believe that because it isn't explainable by scientific reasoning or experimentation, it must not exist, and I have to put up with a LOT of crap because of it.


What? Do you talk to the dead, hunt ghosts, or have regular contact with Emperor Bloxblarx 7 of Farkimus Prime? Do you sell accupuncture, chiropractic, or homeopathic remedies? In what possible way would you take regular crap like this?
 
2012-06-26 04:00:41 PM

Kit Fister: No, it's not a strawman, yes, I realize that. However I've met more than a few people who believe that because it isn't explainable by scientific reasoning or experimentation, it must not exist, and I have to put up with a LOT of crap because of it.


Well, I'm sorry if you've had to put up with crap because of this position because it's an incredibly unreasonable position.

Fortunately no actual scientist nor rationalist I know of holds this position, so you may be getting trolled by ignorants.

Or it's possible that you're mistaking "I don't believe that it exists" for "it must not exist." Skepticism demands that we tentatively disbelieve any claim until it's supported by reason and/or evidence with a strong bias towards evidence.

If you posit that X exists but offer no evidence, then we have no reason to believe that it does and will act accordingly.
 
2012-06-26 04:01:32 PM

Epicedion: Waldo Pepper: so calling what I believe a fairly tale, calling me stupid, ignorant none of that qualifies as name calling.

Well, you got called stupid for acting stupid, ignorant for ignoring knowledge, and your beliefs were dubbed a fairy tale because they're based on a magic book. You're batting 3 for 3 there.

Waldo Pepper: face it you guys are a bunch of bullies with it comes to Christians who dare stand up to you. no worries it makes for a fun discussion.

You made put your religion at issue, not anyone else. Take some responsibility for where you sling your beliefs.

Waldo Pepper: but you don't press you simply state asinine comments over and over again. you give no credit to anything that Christians have done and you act like your all innocent and persecuted by Christians yet the truth is you want God gone out of this country. I've never said Atheist should be treat unfairly or should not have a right to their say or opinions.

You've said a lot but answered very little. You seem to be dodging questions by ignoring them. You have plenty of time to post complaints like this, but when it comes to actual discussion, you fold.


there is no discussion, we have been over this quite a lot in other threads. it makes you all feel smart and self important to sit behind a keyboard and spout off how bad Christians are and how believing in God and the word of God is stupid. You think that previous culture were primitive and backwards for believing in God or gods and yet mankind for all its so call evolution is behaving just as stupid now as they did thousands of years ago. Sure we have gotten better at making stuff but really how have we evolved?

I guess one of my questions on evolution is why did it get as far as man. Man is destroying the earth, should it have not stopped at animals? they see to have a pretty good structure for not overpopulation, they never create anything that destroys the earth. if some breed is too weak it will die off.

seems as far as the earth we are the weakest link
 
2012-06-26 04:02:30 PM

Leeds: Waldo Pepper: so you are saying all Atheist are pro homosexual and pro choice?

No, of course not. But those who hate homos and hate women and back rapists (etc) do so for ridiculous reasons, 99% of which are rooted entirely in some fictional book written by misogynistic troglodytes who were trying to enslave the human race.

So it's unlikely that someone who was not brought up in a cult would spontaneously choose to hate the people and things that you cult-folks choose to hate since your hatred stems entirely from the evil contained in that "good" book of yours.


BS and you know it
 
2012-06-26 04:03:29 PM

Leeds: Waldo Pepper: Epicedion: Waldo Pepper: yet you're still wrong in what you believe. that must really suck. I guess that explains the hatred.

You're not making very much sense. I think you might be confused.

No I believe I was quite clear that for all your intelligence you are still wrong in your belief that there is no God. No matter how brilliant you think you are you are a fool not to believe.

Why?

(I have my assumptions as to what your answer would be if you were ever honest with yourself, but I'm willing to see what it is that you are comfortable writing as an answer)


Since you choose not to answer any of the questions posed to you, I'll offer my guess as to what you would say to this one- if you were honest with yourself.

You believe that we are "fools not to believe" because you have an over inflated sense of self worth (image of god and all that self-fellating garbage) and when you see people who aren't as full of themselves as you seem to be, you feel the desire to try to pretend that they must be wrong in some way. In the end, trying to convince yourself that everyone else is wrong or a fool is the only way you can convince yourself to continue the charade of believing that you're as special a snowflake as you hope yourself to be.

Get over it though. You and I and everyone else on this board are merely biological organisms and every one of us will cease to exist within the next 90 or so years. And in 5 thousand years there will be little or no evidence of any single one of us ever having existed.

I'm fine with that, it's what being a human being is all about. You religious people seem to spend all of your time trying to convince yourselves otherwise though with your "souls" and "gods" and special chants and such...
 
2012-06-26 04:04:07 PM

Waldo Pepper: there is no discussion, we have been over this quite a lot in other threads.


We have never been over this at all in any other threads. I don't think I've ever even seen you before this thread, and we've almost certainly never interacted. The only alternative to that is that you're either very confused, or you've forgotten which alt you've argued with me as.
 
2012-06-26 04:05:53 PM

Waldo Pepper: You think that previous culture were primitive and backwards for believing in God or gods and yet mankind for all its so call evolution is behaving just as stupid now as they did thousands of years ago


No they're not. (Generally speaking) slavery abolished, women treated more fairly, fewer infant deaths, life expectancy increases across the board. Humanity has flourished thanks to Enlightenment and secularism. There's still a lot of work to be done and something tells me sticking to thousands of year old dogma won't help.

Waldo Pepper: I guess one of my questions on evolution is why did it get as far as man. Man is destroying the earth, should it have not stopped at animals? they see to have a pretty good structure for not overpopulation, they never create anything that destroys the earth. if some breed is too weak it will die off.

seems as far as the earth we are the weakest link


Because "not destroying the earth" isn't a trait that has anything to do with survival and natural selection. And we don't know that end "ended" with man. It's still going on. We're just uber-dominant so it's not likely a competing species (on this planet) will out do us.
 
2012-06-26 04:09:39 PM

Waldo Pepper: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: so you are saying all Atheist are pro homosexual and pro choice?

No, of course not. But those who hate homos and hate women and back rapists (etc) do so for ridiculous reasons, 99% of which are rooted entirely in some fictional book written by misogynistic troglodytes who were trying to enslave the human race.

So it's unlikely that someone who was not brought up in a cult would spontaneously choose to hate the people and things that you cult-folks choose to hate since your hatred stems entirely from the evil contained in that "good" book of yours.

BS and you know it


Then in your opinion, what is the root of the hatred some cult-followers feel towards homos and women if it doesn't come from that book that your cult worships that professes hatred towards homos and women???
 
2012-06-26 04:15:08 PM

Metaphysical Ham Sandwich: Waldo Pepper: You think that previous culture were primitive and backwards for believing in God or gods and yet mankind for all its so call evolution is behaving just as stupid now as they did thousands of years ago

No they're not. (Generally speaking) slavery abolished, women treated more fairly, fewer infant deaths, life expectancy increases across the board. Humanity has flourished thanks to Enlightenment and secularism. There's still a lot of work to be done and something tells me sticking to thousands of year old dogma won't help.

Waldo Pepper: I guess one of my questions on evolution is why did it get as far as man. Man is destroying the earth, should it have not stopped at animals? they see to have a pretty good structure for not overpopulation, they never create anything that destroys the earth. if some breed is too weak it will die off.

seems as far as the earth we are the weakest link

Because "not destroying the earth" isn't a trait that has anything to do with survival and natural selection. And we don't know that end "ended" with man. It's still going on. We're just uber-dominant so it's not likely a competing species (on this planet) will out do us.


Slavery still exist in this world, Women are now killing their babies before they are born legal murder (call it a choice if you want but it is still killing a baby), for all our advancements there is a bigger gap between the rich and the poor, people are stressed out more so than ever before, companies are controlling more of our lives, are food even down to the seed is processed so who knows what the heck we are truly eating.
 
2012-06-26 04:19:16 PM

Leeds: Then in your opinion, what is the root of the hatred some cult-followers feel towards homos and women if it doesn't come from that book that your cult worships that professes hatred towards homos and women???


Personally, I think most of them are just bigoted for their own personal reasons, and merely use their religion as justification for their hatred... If so-called Christians actually followed the teachings of, you know, Christ, they wouldn't be so filled with hate towards anyone...
 
2012-06-26 04:20:13 PM

Waldo Pepper: it is still killing a baby


No it's not... It's killing an embryo or fetus... Those things are not "babies" by any sane definition of the word...
 
2012-06-26 04:20:39 PM

Waldo Pepper: Boatmech: Epicedion: Waldo Pepper:

Long winded rant about people picking on poor ol' Waldo.


Christian church
house of worship of Satan
"Christian snake worshipping " type Churches
Other than minor differences in ritual all 3 are based
on the same basic myths.

So, "Why is one particular delusion any better
than the other 2?"
 
2012-06-26 04:22:20 PM

RobSeace: Leeds: Then in your opinion, what is the root of the hatred some cult-followers feel towards homos and women if it doesn't come from that book that your cult worships that professes hatred towards homos and women???

Personally, I think most of them are just bigoted for their own personal reasons, and merely use their religion as justification for their hatred... If so-called Christians actually followed the teachings of, you know, Christ, they wouldn't be so filled with hate towards anyone...


That group resigned from the various state governments en masse the day after the Declaration of Independence was signed. They could not officially back the violence that would come of that decision.

// Seriously
 
2012-06-26 04:23:02 PM

Waldo Pepper: ...


Not going to address that "we go over this a lot" comment? Fine, you're listed as "Probably Someone's Alt" in plagiarist orange for the time being, along with He Who Shall Not Be Named.
 
2012-06-26 04:27:48 PM

Leeds: Waldo Pepper: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: so you are saying all Atheist are pro homosexual and pro choice?

No, of course not. But those who hate homos and hate women and back rapists (etc) do so for ridiculous reasons, 99% of which are rooted entirely in some fictional book written by misogynistic troglodytes who were trying to enslave the human race.

So it's unlikely that someone who was not brought up in a cult would spontaneously choose to hate the people and things that you cult-folks choose to hate since your hatred stems entirely from the evil contained in that "good" book of yours.

BS and you know it

Then in your opinion, what is the root of the hatred some cult-followers feel towards homos and women if it doesn't come from that book that your cult worships that professes hatred towards homos and women???


God doesn't teach hatred toward people. Jesus was never tolerant of sin, sure he hung out with all types and he made certain to tell them to go and sin no more.

to be fair to everyone, I truly can't explain the vile mean hatred that comes from anyone on these subject as far as the people. I will gladly say I hate abortion, doesn't mean I hate any woman who has one or go up to her and call her a murderer. my opinion is it is wrong and i'm confident that would be my opinion even if I was an atheist.

homosexuality. my understanding it is a sin. but again who am I to judge what is in someone's heart. my opinion that is between them and God. I don't care who lives beside me as long as they are good neighbors. I don't care who I work with as long as they are good employees of the company. I don't care who you are or whether we agree or disagree on anything if I see you need help I will help and I hope you do the same for me.

I am a Christian first and American second but this is the country I choose to live in and the beauty is everyone is welcome here. We are also welcome to agree to disagree.
 
2012-06-26 04:28:50 PM

RobSeace: Waldo Pepper: it is still killing a baby

No it's not... It's killing an embryo or fetus... Those things are not "babies" by any sane definition of the word...


if your wife, sister or friend is 6 weeks pregnant and is hit by a drunk driver and she loses her baby do you still feel it wasn't a life?
 
2012-06-26 04:29:30 PM

Epicedion: Waldo Pepper: ...

Not going to address that "we go over this a lot" comment? Fine, you're listed as "Probably Someone's Alt" in plagiarist orange for the time being, along with He Who Shall Not Be Named.


what are you talking about?
 
2012-06-26 04:35:35 PM

Epicedion: Waldo Pepper: ...

Not going to address that "we go over this a lot" comment? Fine, you're listed as "Probably Someone's Alt" in plagiarist orange for the time being, along with He Who Shall Not Be Named.


what is plagiarist orange, is this suppose to have me worried? dude this freaking fark, if it cease to exist tomorrow I would not shed a tear. I doubt if i never came back to this site you would ever shed a tear.

so listing me as plagiarist orange or whatever worries me not.
 
2012-06-26 04:36:29 PM

Waldo Pepper: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: so you are saying all Atheist are pro homosexual and pro choice?

No, of course not. But those who hate homos and hate women and back rapists (etc) do so for ridiculous reasons, 99% of which are rooted entirely in some fictional book written by misogynistic troglodytes who were trying to enslave the human race.

So it's unlikely that someone who was not brought up in a cult would spontaneously choose to hate the people and things that you cult-folks choose to hate since your hatred stems entirely from the evil contained in that "good" book of yours.

BS and you know it

Then in your opinion, what is the root of the hatred some cult-followers feel towards homos and women if it doesn't come from that book that your cult worships that professes hatred towards homos and women???

God doesn't teach hatred toward people. Jesus was never tolerant of sin, sure he hung out with all types and he made certain to tell them to go and sin no more.

to be fair to everyone, I truly can't explain the vile mean hatred that comes from anyone on these subject as far as the people. I will gladly say I hate abortion, doesn't mean I hate any woman who has one or go up to her and call her a murderer. my opinion is it is wrong and i'm confident that would be my opinion even if I was an atheist.

homosexuality. my understanding it is a sin. but again who am I to judge what is in someone's heart. my opinion that is between them and God. I don't care who lives beside me as long as they are good neighbors. I don't care who I work with as long as they are good employees of the company. I don't care who you are or whether we agree or disagree on anything if I see you need help I will help and I hope you do the same for me.

I am a Christian first and American second but this is the country I choose to live in and the beauty is everyone is welcome here. We are also welcome to agree to disagree.


You've stated why not all cultists hate homos and women. That didn't answer the question, but it's getting the dialog going.

Recap-
You: Are all non-cult followers pro homo and pro choice?
Me: It stands to reason since anti homo and anti female mantras are only found in religious teachings.
You: Well I don't believe those particular religious teachings and I personally am not anti woman or anti homo.
Me: So... You still haven't provided a single reason why a non cult-follower would adopt these hate-based beliefs of religious origin, you only stated that you don't feel as filled with hate as other religious people...

I can show the flaw in your argument using venn diagrams if that helps you to understand. Let me know if you need that sort of visual to "get it."
 
2012-06-26 04:36:34 PM

Leeds: And in 5 thousand years there will be little or no evidence of any single one of us ever having existed.


Speak for yourself there, buddy... I fully intend on leaving works of stone behind when I die. If there has been one group of people who have managed to leave behind evidence of their existence in history, it has been the artists... in particular, the artists who work with stone or paint in caves.

Just sayin'...
 
2012-06-26 04:38:00 PM

Waldo Pepper: what is plagiarist orange, is this suppose to have me worried? dude this freaking fark, if it cease to exist tomorrow I would not shed a tear. I doubt if i never came back to this site you would ever shed a tear.

so listing me as plagiarist orange or whatever worries me not.


You're just sharing space with another unreasonable farker.
 
2012-06-26 04:39:37 PM

Waldo Pepper: RobSeace: Waldo Pepper: it is still killing a baby

No it's not... It's killing an embryo or fetus... Those things are not "babies" by any sane definition of the word...

if your wife, sister or friend is 6 weeks pregnant and is hit by a drunk driver and she loses her baby do you still feel it wasn't a life?


I didn't say it wasn't a "life", did I? It's clearly alive... But, so are cancer cells and bacteria... What it's not is a "baby"... And, no, that simple fact of linguistics and reality doesn't change regardless of my own personal involvement in the situation, or how I or anyone else happens to feel toward the embryo or fetus... It's still just an embryo or fetus, and not a "baby" by convention until it is born... However, in guessing your next likely line of reasoning, no I wouldn't support killing it right up until the last second before it's born, either... At some point, clearly in the third trimester, it becomes a viable, separate being of its own, worthy of some kind of rights... Before that, however, it's just not a human being, and has no rights of any kind...
 
2012-06-26 04:41:44 PM

Waldo Pepper: We are also welcome to agree to disagree.


Ahhh... and there it is folks. That is the battle cry of those who have lost an argument and have no evidence or proof to back up their side, but want to walk away from said argument feeling like they still won it.
 
2012-06-26 04:43:26 PM

Leeds: Waldo Pepper: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: so you are saying all Atheist are pro homosexual and pro choice?

No, of course not. But those who hate homos and hate women and back rapists (etc) do so for ridiculous reasons, 99% of which are rooted entirely in some fictional book written by misogynistic troglodytes who were trying to enslave the human race.

So it's unlikely that someone who was not brought up in a cult would spontaneously choose to hate the people and things that you cult-folks choose to hate since your hatred stems entirely from the evil contained in that "good" book of yours.

BS and you know it

Then in your opinion, what is the root of the hatred some cult-followers feel towards homos and women if it doesn't come from that book that your cult worships that professes hatred towards homos and women???

God doesn't teach hatred toward people. Jesus was never tolerant of sin, sure he hung out with all types and he made certain to tell them to go and sin no more.

to be fair to everyone, I truly can't explain the vile mean hatred that comes from anyone on these subject as far as the people. I will gladly say I hate abortion, doesn't mean I hate any woman who has one or go up to her and call her a murderer. my opinion is it is wrong and i'm confident that would be my opinion even if I was an atheist.

homosexuality. my understanding it is a sin. but again who am I to judge what is in someone's heart. my opinion that is between them and God. I don't care who lives beside me as long as they are good neighbors. I don't care who I work with as long as they are good employees of the company. I don't care who you are or whether we agree or disagree on anything if I see you need help I will help and I hope you do the same for me.

I am a Christian first and American second but this is the country I choose to live in and the beauty is everyone is welcome here. We are also welcome to agree to disagree.

You've stated why not all cultists ha ...


I'm sorry to disappoint you, to find your answer I'm sure google can supply you with some links.

i'm not sure why by asking a question of me you feel you are entitled to me replying with an answer. if this simply your ego getting in the way. "how dare he not answer my question, well that must mean he is avoiding me and must be stupid."

not every question is worth answering.

and I think I'm done with this tread, it not longer amuses me.
 
2012-06-26 04:43:57 PM

Waldo Pepper: RobSeace: Waldo Pepper: it is still killing a baby

No it's not... It's killing an embryo or fetus... Those things are not "babies" by any sane definition of the word...

if your wife, sister or friend is 6 weeks pregnant and is hit by a drunk driver and she loses her baby do you still feel it wasn't a life?


Who are you to impose your feelings on others? Hey look, I can construct a hypothetical, too: your sister was raped by your dad and got pregnant... would you feel right in forcing her to carry that pregnancy to term, a reminder every day of the violence perpetrated against her, for the rest of her life?
 
2012-06-26 04:44:40 PM

JohnnyC: Speak for yourself there, buddy... I fully intend on leaving works of stone behind when I die. If there has been one group of people who have managed to leave behind evidence of their existence in history, it has been the artists... in particular, the artists who work with stone or paint in caves.

Just sayin'...

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.


Waldo Pepper: Slavery still exist in this world, Women are now killing their babies before they are born legal murder (call it a choice if you want but it is still killing a baby), for all our advancements there is a bigger gap between the rich and the poor, people are stressed out more so than ever before, companies are controlling more of our lives, are food even down to the seed is processed so who knows what the heck we are truly eating.


I did say "generally speaking" regarding everything I posted and calling abortion murder is begging the question. Embryos and fetuses aren't people.

There isn't a bigger gap between the rich and the poor, and people aren't stressed out more than ever. Companies is an unfair comparison because they're a relatively new construct, and what in the fark are you talking about food? Fewer people die of starvation now than they ever have (far too many still) thanks to technological advances not just in growing food but distributing it. Technology has vastly improved the quality of life for all humans from the bottom to the top.
 
2012-06-26 04:45:30 PM

JohnnyC: Waldo Pepper: We are also welcome to agree to disagree.

Ahhh... and there it is folks. That is the battle cry of those who have lost an argument and have no evidence or proof to back up their side, but want to walk away from said argument feeling like they still won it.


wow way to take that sentence out of everything I said in that post.

does that make you feel special
 
2012-06-26 04:49:33 PM

Pitabred: Waldo Pepper: RobSeace: Waldo Pepper: it is still killing a baby

No it's not... It's killing an embryo or fetus... Those things are not "babies" by any sane definition of the word...

if your wife, sister or friend is 6 weeks pregnant and is hit by a drunk driver and she loses her baby do you still feel it wasn't a life?

Who are you to impose your feelings on others? Hey look, I can construct a hypothetical, too: your sister was raped by your dad and got pregnant... would you feel right in forcing her to carry that pregnancy to term, a reminder every day of the violence perpetrated against her, for the rest of her life?


it would not be my say but knowing how my sister feels she might just have the baby.

of course if abortion was legal in the 30's my Mom might never have been born as she is a daughter of a rape victim.

I never said I wanted abortion outlawed I simply said I feel it is wrong and I feel it is legal murder. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty but if someone murdered my kid and was sentence to death, part of me would feel it is just.
 
2012-06-26 04:51:56 PM

Waldo Pepper: JohnnyC: Waldo Pepper: We are also welcome to agree to disagree.

Ahhh... and there it is folks. That is the battle cry of those who have lost an argument and have no evidence or proof to back up their side, but want to walk away from said argument feeling like they still won it.

wow way to take that sentence out of everything I said in that post.

does that make you feel special


So, Waldo -

A Christian church
A house of worship of Satan
A "Christian snake worshipping " type Churches

Other than minor differences in ritual all 3 are based
on the same basic myths.
Why is one particular delusion any better than the other 2?
 
2012-06-26 04:56:19 PM

Metaphysical Ham Sandwich: JohnnyC: Speak for yourself there, buddy... I fully intend on leaving works of stone behind when I die. If there has been one group of people who have managed to leave behind evidence of their existence in history, it has been the artists... in particular, the artists who work with stone or paint in caves.

Just sayin'...

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Waldo Pepper: Slavery still exist in this world, Women are now killing their babies before they are born legal murder (call it a choice if you want but it is still killing a baby), for all our advancements there is a bigger gap between the rich and the poor, people are stressed out more so than ever before, companies are controlling more of our lives, are food even down to the seed is processed so who knows what the heck we are truly eating.

I did say "generally speaking" regarding everything I posted and calling abortion murder is begging the question. Embryos and fetuses aren't people.

There isn't a bigger gap between the rich and the poor, and people aren't stressed out more than ever. Companies is an unfair comparison because they're a relatively new construct, and what in the fark are you talking about food? Fewer people die of starvation now than they ever have (far too many still) thanks to technological advances not just in growing food but distributing it. Technology has vastly improved the quality of life ...


on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

I'll give you the companies are still too new, but it doesn't look like a good thing. I might argue is our quality of life improved or just easier. I'll never agree on the baby issue. Now I do think the morning after pill is a good thing. I'm not sure why anyone argues on it.
 
2012-06-26 05:06:21 PM

Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.


Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?
 
2012-06-26 05:22:53 PM

Leeds: Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?


Hmm. I might have said that backwards - countries that have overthrown the shackles of starvation have tended to outgrow things like religion.
 
2012-06-26 05:29:38 PM

Leeds: Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?


not really. politics/power and greed are the major reasons there is starvation. abuse of God by man has led to horror, I will agree. but those in power have always found a way to abuse good to advance evil.
 
2012-06-26 05:30:09 PM

HighZoolander: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?

Hmm. I might have said that backwards - countries that have overthrown the shackles of starvation have tended to outgrow things like religion.


I think the fact that a prominent world religion chooses to block access to condoms is a pretty telling thing. No condoms means more disease, more strife, more families unable to feed their young, more despair, more starvation and more death.

It's a vicious circle but regardless of which comes first (rising above religion or ending starvation and needless suffering) the two seem statistically to go hand in hand pretty well.
 
2012-06-26 05:32:40 PM

Waldo Pepper: abuse of God by man


I shouldn't have chuckled when I read that but I did. I immediately pictured a priest raping god. :-)

// What would that be called? Diacest???
 
2012-06-26 05:33:46 PM

HighZoolander: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?

Hmm. I might have said that backwards - countries that have overthrown the shackles of starvation have tended to outgrow things like religion.


sort of reads the same either way. I knew what you meant.

this is an interesting site about slavery today. Link
 
2012-06-26 05:34:39 PM

Leeds: Waldo Pepper: abuse of God by man

I shouldn't have chuckled when I read that but I did. I immediately pictured a priest raping god. :-)

// What would that be called? Diacest???


and in a lot of ways that is very accurate.
 
2012-06-26 05:38:55 PM

Leeds: HighZoolander: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?

Hmm. I might have said that backwards - countries that have overthrown the shackles of starvation have tended to outgrow things like religion.

I think the fact that a prominent world religion chooses to block access to condoms is a pretty telling thing. No condoms means more disease, more strife, more families unable to feed their young, more despair, more starvation and more death.

It's a vicious circle but regardless of which comes first (rising above religion or ending starvation and needless suffering) the two seem statistically to go hand in hand pretty well.


I don't get that one either. but like I said earlier about power and greed holds very true in politics, business and religion. I don't even find how condoms would be like abortion (i believe that is what they believe). Wouldn't pulling out also be the same as a condom.
 
2012-06-26 05:43:08 PM

Leeds: I think the fact that a prominent world religion chooses to block access to condoms is a pretty telling thing.


Yeah, that's incredible, isn't it? While most people are arguing over whether or not abortion is morally wrong, here we have the Catholic Church still stuck in a previous century still claiming that farking contraception is morally wrong, when literally everyone else on the planet has long since moved away from that silly question, and is looking at the Catholics like, "Really? Dude, WTF??"...
 
2012-06-26 05:49:13 PM

RobSeace: Leeds: I think the fact that a prominent world religion chooses to block access to condoms is a pretty telling thing.

Yeah, that's incredible, isn't it? While most people are arguing over whether or not abortion is morally wrong, here we have the Catholic Church still stuck in a previous century still claiming that farking contraception is morally wrong, when literally everyone else on the planet has long since moved away from that silly question, and is looking at the Catholics like, "Really? Dude, WTF??"...


I won't judge the catholic church goer on his/her personal belief but the powers that be I truly don't believe are doing God's work. their charities and missionaries do some great work as do a lot of folks from other religions and non-religions. I remember when Sinead O'Conner ripped up the photo of the pope on snl. if only everyone has listen to her how many kids wouldn't have been raped.
 
2012-06-26 06:14:58 PM

Leeds: HighZoolander: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?

Hmm. I might have said that backwards - countries that have overthrown the shackles of starvation have tended to outgrow things like religion.

I think the fact that a prominent world religion chooses to block access to condoms is a pretty telling thing. No condoms means more disease, more strife, more families unable to feed their young, more despair, more starvation and more death.

It's a vicious circle but regardless of which comes first (rising above religion or ending starvation and needless suffering) the two seem statistically to go hand in hand pretty well.


Yeah, I'd agree that the correlation is there. I don't have a good/better answer about the causation. And really, if I knew that I'd be making great strides towards ending religion as we know it.

I'm all for people having their own irrational beliefs, so long as they're harmless, but the harmful ones have got to go - and decreeing that one set of beliefs is the TRUE, eternal and unchanging word of god is not a rational basis to decide which beliefs are causing harm and which aren't
 
2012-06-26 06:23:19 PM

0Icky0: Waldo Pepper: God is love, without His love you wouldn't exist.

You're confusing God with my dad not pulling out and giving my mom a pearl necklace.
And you're sounding a bit too much like "I Drunk What".


you say that like it's a bad thing

u jelly?
 
2012-06-26 06:24:47 PM

Waldo Pepper: not every question is worth answering


what's your religion so that i can make fun of it?
 
2012-06-26 06:30:53 PM

HighZoolander: Leeds: HighZoolander: Leeds: Waldo Pepper: on the food I said who knows what we are eating. I never said more people are starving. I agree too many people still die of starvation and the same is so much as to do with politics/power/green in third world nations.

Yes, starvation in third world countries is still a big deal.

Have you noticed how countries who have overthrown the shackles of religion have tended to outgrow things like starvation? It's an interesting coincidence, is it not?

Hmm. I might have said that backwards - countries that have overthrown the shackles of starvation have tended to outgrow things like religion.

I think the fact that a prominent world religion chooses to block access to condoms is a pretty telling thing. No condoms means more disease, more strife, more families unable to feed their young, more despair, more starvation and more death.

It's a vicious circle but regardless of which comes first (rising above religion or ending starvation and needless suffering) the two seem statistically to go hand in hand pretty well.

Yeah, I'd agree that the correlation is there. I don't have a good/better answer about the causation. And really, if I knew that I'd be making great strides towards ending religion as we know it.

I'm all for people having their own irrational beliefs, so long as they're harmless, but the harmful ones have got to go - and decreeing that one set of beliefs is the TRUE, eternal and unchanging word of god is not a rational basis to decide which beliefs are causing harm and which aren't


God and a belief in God is not what is causing all the damage. I will give you that too many people use religion as an excuse for doing harm. but even if you were right that all religion is false, once you eliminate it you still have man and all his faults. sure you might have a grace period where it all seems to be working the way you expect but then comes greed, power and the "me first" mentality. Where will you be once man has nobody else to blame but himself.
 
2012-06-26 06:33:22 PM

Kit Fister: However, so far, nothing has explicitly disproven the presence of a higher power, nor proven it.


That depends on what sense of the word "prove" you have in mind, among other things.

Waldo Pepper: atheistism is the religion of being selfish


That would more be Randite Capitalism... which is an atheist philosophy, but not the only one. For example, Marxist Communism is also atheist, but quite different. Neither appears particularly common in the US these days; the prevalent strain is a secular scientific/technological progressive humanist variety... which isn't particularly selfish. (It still tends to be a bit speciesist for my taste.)

Waldo Pepper: yet you're still wrong in what you believe.


1.bp.blogspot.com


Look! It's a bear assertion.

Waldo Pepper: you are still wrong in your belief that there is no God.


1.bp.blogspot.com


And another....

Kit Fister: I dunno about anyone else, but it sure is annoying that some people who choose atheism don't just stop at choosing atheism, but become evangelical to the extent that they must belittle and berate those who choose to believe in some higher power.


It's not so much that they "must"; more that they find it a tactic that sometimes helps people start questioning their beliefs.

Kit Fister: However I've met more than a few people who believe that because it isn't explainable by scientific reasoning or experimentation, it must not exist, and I have to put up with a LOT of crap because of it.


I think you're confusing "scientific reasoning" with "current scientific understanding", BTW. I also suspect you're confusing "must not" and "probably doesn't".

Anyway, I have to argue about flying saucers on the beach with people, you know. And I was interested in this: they keep arguing that it is possible. And that's true. It is possible. They do not appreciate that the problem is not to demonstrate whether it's possible or not but whether it's going on or not. - Richard Feynman


Waldo Pepper: I guess one of my questions on evolution is why did it get as far as man. Man is destroying the earth, should it have not stopped at animals?


Well, we're not destroying the planet. We're probably not going to even wipe out multicellular life.

But, even supposing we do figure out how to commit geocide.... what makes you think evolution necessarily would avoid that?

a.imageshack.us

Waldo Pepper: Now I do think the morning after pill is a good thing. I'm not sure why anyone argues on it.


On the protestant side of the fence, some mistakenly believe it blocks implantation rather than merely delaying ovulation. The mechanism wasn't clear when it first came out, merely the efficacy; however, they continue their opposition because they won't abandon their misapprehensions about reality.

For Catholics, Humanae Vitae says contraception is also bad.
 
2012-06-26 07:04:30 PM

Waldo Pepper: Wouldn't pulling out also be the same as a condom.


They don't officially allow that either. The only method that they begrudgingly allow is the rhythm method.

You have to understand that the best way for a church to grow profits is through breeding ... childhood indoctrination is the hardest to break therefore children born into the church are the least likely to leave.

Most religions encourage large families ... catholicism is one of the few that take it to the next level of effectively forcing extra children on you.
 
2012-06-26 07:15:35 PM

I drunk what: Waldo Pepper: not every question is worth answering

what's your religion so that i can make fun of it?


IDW, are you catching this Waldo Pepper guy? Now that is how you herp the persecuted Christian derp! You've been replaced, man. He's been carrying this thread for like 300 posts. At this point you could only dream.

Of course, there may be more to this. Is he your alt? Nah! No one could fake such poor grammar. Protege perhaps?...
 
2012-06-26 07:32:53 PM

Waldo Pepper: HighZoolander

Yeah, I'd agree that the correlation is there. I don't have a good/better answer about the causation. And really, if I knew that I'd be making great strides towards ending religion as we know it.

I'm all for people having their own irrational beliefs, so long as they're harmless, but the harmful ones have got to go - and decreeing that one set of beliefs is the TRUE, eternal and unchanging word of god is not a rational basis to decide which beliefs are causing harm and which aren't

God and a belief in God is not what is causing all the damage. I will give you that too many people use religion as an excuse for doing harm. but even if you were right that all religion is false, once you eliminate it you still have man and all his faults. sure you might have a grace period where it all seems to be working the way you expect but then comes greed, power and the "me first" mentality. Where will you be once man has nobody else to blame but himself.


Note that I did not say "end religion" I said "end religion as we know it". I think people will always need irrational beliefs to help them through times of uncertainty and to deal with the unknown. And there will always be unknowns that people are confronted with.

You are simply asserting that God and belief have a beneficial effect - I'd prefer for that to be a testable hypothesis, and for there to be room for objectively better beliefs to replace those that are objectively worse (should a test be devised).

I think greed, power, and the 'me first' mentality are doing just fine right now, with God. As far as where I'll be - I'm an atheist, so I'll be right where I am now. My morality won't change if your god disappears in a puff of smoke.

Hopefully yours wouldn't either - because if faith in god is the only think keeping you on the straight and narrow then you need help (and I'm glad that religion is there to provide the help you need, but wish there could be a better system than the current one - I'm not sure psychiatry is up to the job just yet).

I do think that people are better behaved when they are forced to take responsibility for the harm they cause others, and have no one to blame but themselves - maybe I'm an idealist though.

And some people do have more faults than others, just don't assume that everybody would be as amoral as you might be without God.
 
2012-06-26 07:59:45 PM

Nick the What: He's been carrying this thread for like 300 posts.


i've only been able to read about 10-12

did i miss anything?

/sorry lad
//real life is keeping me busy at the moment
///i'll try to catch up on the weekend
 
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