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(Talking Points Memo)   Boehner's comment about the White House being involved in the coverup of Fast and Furious not meant to be factually correct   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 110
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2606 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Jun 2012 at 9:37 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-25 09:24:14 AM  
So, why the executive privilege? If he knows nothing and did nothing, he should order Holder to turn over the requested documents. Seems pretty simple to me.
 
2012-06-25 09:40:12 AM  
boehner's a liar? who'da thunk it?
 
2012-06-25 09:40:26 AM  
So are the Republicans in "lockstep" or aren't they?

Also, I hate to break it to you subby, but politicians lie all the time or make stuff up to make their side look more awesome.
 
2012-06-25 09:42:09 AM  
Enjoy your witch hunt, GOP.

On the positive note, if they do hire a "special prosecutor", at least the GOP House would have created one job.

'Cause the GOP is all about "Job Creatin"...
 
2012-06-25 09:42:15 AM  
It's called innuendo. We aren't saying the White House is covering this up, but we are going to waste hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars to make extra sure they didn't.
 
2012-06-25 09:44:13 AM  
Stop it, guys. You're gonna make Boehner cry.
 
2012-06-25 09:45:09 AM  
80% of what the GOP acuses Obama of is not factually correct whether it was intentended to be or not. Really though I love this kind of argument through sugestion tactic in debate...."All I can say is of the many farm animals that Boehner may have had sex with, the tom cat was not one of them."
 
2012-06-25 09:45:24 AM  

WTF Indeed: It's called innuendo. We aren't saying the White House is covering this up, but we are going to waste hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars to make extra sure they didn't.


So this is how the second-term impeachment begins?
 
2012-06-25 09:45:50 AM  
If Obama wasn't so damned secretive about everything he does, Boehner wouldn't have had to lie.
 
2012-06-25 09:46:18 AM  
Remember - when they pass no gun restriction legislation and are actually allowing the sale of guns in order to track them means that the high-fallutin' president is personally coming to everyone's homes and stealing all the guns. All of them.

/you complete idiots
 
2012-06-25 09:46:38 AM  

FlashHarry: boehner's a liar? who'da thunk it?


Can you prove he's lying about this?
 
2012-06-25 09:47:14 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: WTF Indeed: It's called innuendo. We aren't saying the White House is covering this up, but we are going to waste hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars to make extra sure they didn't.

So this is how the second-term impeachment begins?


Nah. I think Issa's smart enough to know that he won't be able to trump this up into a President-level Thing; he's got a good chance of getting Holder and he'll probably focus on that.
 
2012-06-25 09:47:39 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Remember - when they pass no gun restriction legislation and are actually allowing the sale of guns in order to track them means that the high-fallutin' president is personally coming to everyone's homes and stealing all the guns. All of them.

/you complete idiots


I have heard no one say this but you. Why are you hitting yourself?
 
2012-06-25 09:47:54 AM  

BillCo: So, why the executive privilege? If he knows nothing and did nothing, he should order Holder to turn over the requested documents. Seems pretty simple to me.


Frankly, I think it was try and make all this bullshiat go away.

Because it's not like Holder could release the documents if he wanted to, since it apparently would have been against the law for him to do so.

Not to mention all the investigations it would destroy and the undercover agents it would reveal.
 
2012-06-25 09:48:17 AM  
The only Obama facts that matter to the Republicans are: 1. He's still black 2. He's still not a Republican. So any and all efforts to remove him from the White House are justified, no matter what it costs the country.
 
2012-06-25 09:48:35 AM  

finaboy: So are the Republicans in "lockstep" or aren't they?

Also, I hate to break it to you subby, but politicians lie all the time or make stuff up to make their side look more awesome.


True, but the GOP has ceased to tell the truth at any time, even when it isn't necessary to lie! It's pathological, that's what it is.
 
2012-06-25 09:49:20 AM  

s2s2s2: Epoch_Zero: Remember - when they pass no gun restriction legislation and are actually allowing the sale of guns in order to track them means that the high-fallutin' president is personally coming to everyone's homes and stealing all the guns. All of them.

/you complete idiots

I have heard no one say this but you. Why are you hitting yourself?


Ahhh, the troll hasn't seen his talking points this morning.
 
2012-06-25 09:49:41 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: So this is how the second-term impeachment begins?


No, this is how you try to bog down a candidate in an election year. Much like Whitewater in the 1990's, this is just an attempt to weaken the President using taxpayer money. This House committee is basically committing a crime by using tax money to effect a political campaign. If there was really something to this story this all would have happened six months ago, instead they waited until the summer of the election year.
 
2012-06-25 09:50:52 AM  

s2s2s2: FlashHarry: boehner's a liar? who'da thunk it?

Can you prove he's lying about this?


Well when the Chairman of the House Oversight Committee tells you that the White House wasn't involved, wouldn't it be a lie to then turn around and say that the White House is involved? Is that not lying? Or are you now going to say that Issa didn't tell Boehner that the White House wasn't involved?
 
2012-06-25 09:53:04 AM  

WTF Indeed: Dwight_Yeast: So this is how the second-term impeachment begins?

No, this is how you try to bog down a candidate in an election year. Much like Whitewater in the 1990's, this is just an attempt to weaken the President using taxpayer money. This House committee is basically committing a crime by using tax money to effect a political campaign. If there was really something to this story this all would have happened six months ago, instead they waited until the summer of the election year.


And magically, this whole issue will be resolved and never heard of again after approximately 7:00 PM on election day. Just like, say, the Ground Zero mosque.
 
2012-06-25 09:53:25 AM  

s2s2s2: Epoch_Zero: Remember - when they pass no gun restriction legislation and are actually allowing the sale of guns in order to track them means that the high-fallutin' president is personally coming to everyone's homes and stealing all the guns. All of them.

/you complete idiots

I have heard no one say this but you. Why are you hitting yourself?


Well, for one, I have deep-seated emotional problems.

Also, is this not why Issa has a rage boner over this? Some idiot blogger decides to incite panic in his little neoconfederate world about the tracking of illegally sold guns and decides it must be the big bad Obama coming to take all of the guns? It can't be the death of one federal officer - seeing as people who work for the government are dying all the time and the GOP has done nothing but exacerbate the situation.
 
2012-06-25 09:53:57 AM  

Codenamechaz: BillCo: So, why the executive privilege? If he knows nothing and did nothing, he should order Holder to turn over the requested documents. Seems pretty simple to me.

Frankly, I think it was try and make all this bullshiat go away.

Because it's not like Holder could release the documents if he wanted to, since it apparently would have been against the law for him to do so.

Not to mention all the investigations it would destroy and the undercover agents it would reveal.


Republicans don't have any problems destroying undercover agents, as long as it can harm a political enemy.
 
2012-06-25 09:54:28 AM  

ongbok: Well when the Chairman of the House Oversight Committee tells you that the White House wasn't involved, wouldn't it be a lie to then turn around and say that the White House is involved? Is that not lying? Or are you now going to say that Issa didn't tell Boehner that the White House wasn't involved?


I guess there's no way the HOC Chairman is either lying or just plain ignorant...:I

You know the H in HOC doesn't mean the White House, right? Issa said he doesn't know, that's why he conducting an investigation and demanding the documents the WH wants to keep under wraps.
 
2012-06-25 09:54:55 AM  
BillCo

So, why the executive privilege? If he knows nothing and did nothing, he should order Holder to turn over the requested documents. Seems pretty simple to me

For one thing, Issa is asking for grand jury transcripts. Its illegal to release those.

For another, if confidential informants' names start getting tossed around in Congressional hearings, do you see a potential problem? That's the very kind of sceario for which executive privilege exists.

Is this not obvious? "Executive privilege" doesn't equal "coverup". There are legitimate reasons for it. It doesn't occur to you that a wide-ranging investigation that includes undercovers and confidential informants might be one of them?
 
2012-06-25 09:55:04 AM  

s2s2s2: FlashHarry: boehner's a liar? who'da thunk it?

Can you prove he's lying about this?


I guess we can just assume he's an idiot instead of a liar?
 
2012-06-25 09:55:14 AM  

finaboy: So are the Republicans in "lockstep" or aren't they?

Also, I hate to break it to you subby, but politicians lie all the time or make stuff up to make their side look more awesome.


I had a crazy idea this morning, but hear me out. OK, so you've got the President and a whole lotta guys, Democrat or Republican, often in the position of "incumbents". Can you imagine what would happen if they actually all worked together in compromise to do something good for the American people, rather than their corporate pimps? Think about it; the President gets credit for being a leader, the opposition party gets to claim that the good parts are all theirs, and all of the "incumbents" get to take credit for it when they campaign.

Yeah, I know, stupid. Our system of obstructionism, corporate whoring, and relentless yet disingenuous party partisanship is much better. As the history of republics throughout western history would certainly indicate, I'm sure it doesn't have a price.
 
2012-06-25 09:56:37 AM  

Epoch_Zero: s2s2s2: Epoch_Zero: Remember - when they pass no gun restriction legislation and are actually allowing the sale of guns in order to track them means that the high-fallutin' president is personally coming to everyone's homes and stealing all the guns. All of them.

/you complete idiots

I have heard no one say this but you. Why are you hitting yourself?

Well, for one, I have deep-seated emotional problems.

Also, is this not why Issa has a rage boner over this? Some idiot blogger decides to incite panic in his little neoconfederate world about the tracking of illegally sold guns and decides it must be the big bad Obama coming to take all of the guns? It can't be the death of one federal officer - seeing as people who work for the government are dying all the time and the GOP has done nothing but exacerbate the situation.


This was all prompted by a Limbaugh conspiracy theory. Issa's buttanguish is palpable.
 
2012-06-25 09:57:23 AM  

s2s2s2: I guess there's no way the HOC Chairman is either lying or just plain ignorant...:I


You think the Republican chairman of the House Oversight Committee is either lying or ignorant when he publicly says there's no evidence for a claim made by the Republican Speaker of the House? Why?
 
2012-06-25 09:57:46 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Also, is this not why Issa has a rage boner over this? Some idiot blogger decides to incite panic in his little neoconfederate world about the tracking of illegally sold guns and decides it must be the big bad Obama coming to take all of the guns? It can't be the death of one federal officer - seeing as people who work for the government are dying all the time and the GOP has done nothing but exacerbate the situation.


All this just reminds me of when Hillary was crying about the guns going to Mexico, and lying about the numbers. I would guess she knew about Bush's gunwalking program. What was it that she was calling for in response to those numbers she was lying about? It rhymes with (stricter) Fun Patrol.
 
2012-06-25 09:58:24 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: I guess we can just assume he's an idiot instead of a liar?


SOLD!
 
2012-06-25 09:58:52 AM  
Come on now, guys, this was clearly Boehner's idea of a joke. Many a time, now, he's showed us how many jokes the Boehner can make.
 
2012-06-25 09:59:04 AM  

qorkfiend: You think the Republican chairman of the House Oversight Committee is either lying or ignorant when he publicly says there's no evidence for a claim made by the Republican Speaker of the House? Why?


Because he's asking for the evidence he lacks.
 
2012-06-25 09:59:57 AM  

Millennium: Come on now, guys, this was clearly Boehner's idea of a joke. Many a time, now, he's showed us how many jokes the Boehner can make.


Bohner's boners?
 
2012-06-25 10:00:01 AM  

s2s2s2: Epoch_Zero: Also, is this not why Issa has a rage boner over this? Some idiot blogger decides to incite panic in his little neoconfederate world about the tracking of illegally sold guns and decides it must be the big bad Obama coming to take all of the guns? It can't be the death of one federal officer - seeing as people who work for the government are dying all the time and the GOP has done nothing but exacerbate the situation.

All this just reminds me of when Hillary was crying about the guns going to Mexico, and lying about the numbers. I would guess she knew about Bush's gunwalking program. What was it that she was calling for in response to those numbers she was lying about? It rhymes with (stricter) Fun Patrol.


Are you making an anecdote or trying to cite something as precedent?
 
2012-06-25 10:00:19 AM  

s2s2s2: ongbok: Well when the Chairman of the House Oversight Committee tells you that the White House wasn't involved, wouldn't it be a lie to then turn around and say that the White House is involved? Is that not lying? Or are you now going to say that Issa didn't tell Boehner that the White House wasn't involved?

I guess there's no way the HOC Chairman is either lying or just plain ignorant...:I

You know the H in HOC doesn't mean the White House, right? Issa said he doesn't know, that's why he conducting an investigation and demanding the documents the WH wants to keep under wraps.


Well if he is incompetent or lying, like you are saying, then we can't trust his investigation and it needs to end now. Or Boehner is just lying like he has done many times before. Which one is it?
 
2012-06-25 10:00:41 AM  

s2s2s2: qorkfiend: You think the Republican chairman of the House Oversight Committee is either lying or ignorant when he publicly says there's no evidence for a claim made by the Republican Speaker of the House? Why?

Because he's asking for the evidence he lacks.


So, was he lying about there not being any evidence (why would he do this?), or is he ignorant about the investigation he's been spearheading?
 
2012-06-25 10:01:44 AM  

born_yesterday: I had a crazy idea this morning, but hear me out. OK, so you've got the President and a whole lotta guys, Democrat or Republican, often in the position of "incumbents". Can you imagine what would happen if they actually all worked together in compromise to do something good for the American people, rather than their corporate pimps? Think about it; the President gets credit for being a leader, the opposition party gets to claim that the good parts are all theirs, and all of the "incumbents" get to take credit for it when they campaign.

Yeah, I know, stupid. Our system of obstructionism, corporate whoring, and relentless yet disingenuous party partisanship is much better. As the history of republics throughout western history would certainly indicate, I'm sure it doesn't have a price.


You realize of course that the majority of people who fund the election campaigns of these politicians enjoy legislation that is decidedly against the best interest of the country.
 
2012-06-25 10:01:52 AM  

qorkfiend: s2s2s2: I guess there's no way the HOC Chairman is either lying or just plain ignorant...:I

You think the Republican chairman of the House Oversight Committee is either lying or ignorant when he publicly says there's no evidence for a claim made by the Republican Speaker of the House? Why?



The Fark Independents need to believe the scary stories that their Oxy-popping, child-molesting microphone daddy tells them.
 
2012-06-25 10:03:43 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: s2s2s2: FlashHarry: boehner's a liar? who'da thunk it?

Can you prove he's lying about this?

I guess we can just assume he's an idiot instead of a liar?


Can't it be both?
 
2012-06-25 10:05:48 AM  

qorkfiend: Nah. I think Issa's smart enough to know that he won't be able to trump this up into a President-level Thing; he's got a good chance of getting Holder and he'll probably focus on that.


But all Obama has to do is call Holder to the carpet and tell him its time to write The Letter; Holder's infinitely replaceable; it's not like they're going after Biden or Clinton or any of the other cabinet members the president relies on on a daily basis.

Holder's resignation would be a political hit, but not a major one.
 
2012-06-25 10:06:34 AM  

BillCo: So, why the executive privilege? If he knows nothing and did nothing, he should order Holder to turn over the requested documents. Seems pretty simple to me.


Because asking the WH to reveal anything they're not required to means you get an "EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE LOLZ" in return. Bush did it, Clinton did it, the other Bush did it, Reagan did it, Carter did it, Ford did it, Nixon did it...

It keeps the privilege nice and robust in case the next president has to use it.

There's also that pesky notion that Issa was saying there's no evidence the WH was involved in the cover up. That means there might have been WH involvement in the op itself (don't know much about it) or that Obama/Holder had discussions about it. Deliberations are covered by EP since at least when Bush had the Rove/Miers documents withheld for the same reason.

It sucks that EP is so broad, but it'll take more than an act of Congress or a court case. You need 2 branches to overrule a third, and I'm not even sure they can make prescriptive rules about EP without a Constitutional Amendment in the first place.

// meaning that SCOTUS/Congress can overrule a declaration that certain materials are covered by EP, but I have no idea how they might (absent seeing the material)
// the states (37 of them) can absolutely pass an amendment that says "Only those materials examined by a sitting Federal judge and determined to be materially related to deliberations, discussions or other probing inquiries of an internal, Executive Branch matter may be covered by an invocation of Executive Privilege"
 
2012-06-25 10:06:48 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Are you making an anecdote or trying to cite something as precedent?


#JustSayin
 
2012-06-25 10:07:19 AM  
The problems of the modern GOP in a nutshell.

They finally have a real issue to use against Obama. He ran on transparency, but now he's using executive privilege to cover for one of his cronies. It's a clean hit, and it's one that could take some of the steam out of his base and make the moderates question just how different Obama is from Bush.

Instead, they're going to turn it into another derpfest. The allegations will get more and more outrageous and based entirely in fantasy. The FW:Fw:Fw; emails will start flying. Rush Limbaugh will foam at the mouth, and in the end, the teabaggers will be whipped into a frenzy, but moderates and independents will be turned off.

The GOP has lost control of its manufactured outrage machine, and now they're going to pay for it.
 
2012-06-25 10:08:33 AM  

qorkfiend: So, was he lying about there not being any evidence (why would he do this?), or is he ignorant about the investigation he's been spearheading?


He doesn't have the evidence he seeks, so currently "there is none". It's always C), bro.
 
2012-06-25 10:08:33 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: Holder's resignation would be a political hit, but not a major one.


True, especially since he's already carried some water for the administration over some other issues in the past. If the heat gets turned up to high, just take the resignation and ride off into the high-priced speaking engagement/cushy consulting job sunset that welcomes cabinet members when they've given their measure for god and country.
 
2012-06-25 10:08:56 AM  
"We had nothing to do with it, what you want our documents, no you can't have them" ...
 
2012-06-25 10:09:40 AM  

stoli n coke: The Fark Independents need to believe the scary stories that their Oxy-popping, child-molesting microphone daddy tells them.


Aren't you cute!
 
2012-06-25 10:09:52 AM  

s2s2s2: qorkfiend: So, was he lying about there not being any evidence (why would he do this?), or is he ignorant about the investigation he's been spearheading?

He doesn't have the evidence he seeks, so currently "there is none". It's always C), bro.


Right, and this proves that Issa is either lying or ignorant how?
 
2012-06-25 10:11:32 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: qorkfiend: Nah. I think Issa's smart enough to know that he won't be able to trump this up into a President-level Thing; he's got a good chance of getting Holder and he'll probably focus on that.

But all Obama has to do is call Holder to the carpet and tell him its time to write The Letter; Holder's infinitely replaceable; it's not like they're going after Biden or Clinton or any of the other cabinet members the president relies on on a daily basis.

Holder's resignation would be a political hit, but not a major one.


Right, that's what I mean by "getting Holder". Impeachment proceedings are unlikely so he wants a resignation.
 
2012-06-25 10:12:32 AM  

finaboy: So are the Republicans in "lockstep" or aren't they?


They're lockstep in opposition to ideas proposed by the Democrats and a friggin' retarded circus when it comes to anything else.
 
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