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(Digital Trends)   Surely by now, everyone realizes that the largest group of video gamers are adults. Why then, is there so little sex in video games? Custer's Revenge notwithstanding   (digitaltrends.com) divider line 165
    More: Interesting, tomb raider, informed consents, Mass Effect, Lara Croft, Tom and Jerry  
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3308 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Jun 2012 at 12:23 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-25 01:53:54 AM
Because maybe we don't need sex in our video games?

Well that and polygonal breasts would look terrible.
 
2012-06-25 02:12:05 AM
Because sex in video games is creepy.
 
2012-06-25 02:37:12 AM
Leisure suit Larry disagrees.
 
2012-06-25 03:34:44 AM
ITT: People who have never visited ULMF or Hongfire claim there is no sex in video games.

(Obviously, that statement carries the mother of all NSFW connotations, should you choose to visit either.)
 
2012-06-25 06:30:30 AM
because porn?

www.inquisitr.com
 
2012-06-25 08:52:20 AM
A A B B A ^ ^ A A A A A AAAAA!!!
 
2012-06-25 09:10:25 AM
Because sex scenes in movies are stupid, unrealistic, and gratuitous even though there are real actors.

Video game sex scenes are even worse.
 
2012-06-25 09:27:12 AM
In my opinion, I don't really think sex scenes are necessary. And if they are included, if they're not done right, they are really difficult to take seriously. Throw in the possibility of modding, and you get all kinds of ridiculous 'skimpy' this and 'doggy style' that kinds of mods that sometimes make one roll one's eyes.

That being said; IF sex in a game is done well, it can be enjoyable. A good example in my mind is Dragon Age: Origins. A bad example would be its sequel, Dragon Age II.

Also, adding in sex to a video game can be a controversial decision. If you decide to budget the game more tightly by adding only heterosexual encounters, all the gays (myself included) get a little bit irritated by this, especially if the game company has a history of including homoerotic experiences in past games (see BioWare). If the game company decides to be inclusive, and add homosexual experiences as well, they run the risk of alienating the more conservative fan base.

If sex is done well, it can enhance RPG video games greatly, and can be seen as a reward for complex interactions and play choices with certain NPCs. If done poorly, it makes the game laughable. But in the end, I can take it or leave it. If I was forced to choose between sex and no sex in all future games though, I'd probably pick no sex since it's the least risky option for a potentially enjoyable game.
 
2012-06-25 09:31:27 AM
The real problem is that we can't have sex with video game characters yet.
 
2012-06-25 09:38:39 AM
Not once have I ever been playing a video game and thought "gee, I wish there was some kinky sex right here".

It's different in a TV show or movie. I mean... my hands are busy playing the game! Don't give me conflicting desires like that!
 
2012-06-25 09:58:54 AM
Leisure Suit Larry. Now that was hot.
 
2012-06-25 10:07:34 AM

Cythraul: If sex is done well, it can enhance RPG video games greatly, and can be seen as a reward for complex interactions and play choices with certain NPCs. If done poorly, it makes the game laughable. But in the end, I can take it or leave it. If I was forced to choose between sex and no sex in all future games though, I'd probably pick no sex since it's the least risky option for a potentially enjoyable game.


I'm not a big fan of romances in general, but sometimes those lead to different rewards. More character options, dialogue, stat increases etc. If the reward is just a sex scene, I'd much rather they left it out altogether.
 
2012-06-25 10:39:16 AM
Because videogame developers write games to get girls, and to get girls to play can't put boy sex in, because it'd annoy the girls and they wouldn't play your game.
 
2012-06-25 11:11:55 AM
ts2.mm.bing.net
 
2012-06-25 12:06:23 PM
The biggest obstacle is that too many people who would oppose putting sex in anything cannot admit that "video games" can be for adults.

/Hot Coffee
 
2012-06-25 12:27:06 PM
Diablo 3 had a scene that was amusing, creepy, and full of innuendo in Act 2. Haven't gotten elsewhere yet.

I'll tell you why (without RTFA).

Money, and they can make a hell of a lot more selling Teen rated games than Mature or Adults Only. Same reason studios want PG-13 over R movies.

//And who really wants a XXXMMORPG?
 
2012-06-25 12:30:10 PM

meat0918: //And who really wants a XXXMMORPG?


You mean Second Life?
 
2012-06-25 12:31:48 PM
Because with the video game rating system, if you created a decent sexual video game, you could only sell it at places that sell Adult Only rated games, and that cuts out your biggest video game stores, not to mention, where the fark would you advertise the game at?

There is a reason why porn games look like crap. You really can't make money off of them so why bring your A game?
 
2012-06-25 12:32:04 PM

Mike_LowELL: ITT: People who have never visited ULMF or Hongfire claim there is no sex in video games.

(Obviously, that statement carries the mother of all NSFW connotations, should you choose to visit either.)


I have no idea what ULMF is, but I've visited hongfire before and was rather amazed at the collection of sex games you can find there along with mods and what not for each. Thing is, the vast majority of them appeared to be of Japanese in origin and all the good bits were censored.

Yes folks, there's loads of games that are about nothing but sex, but dear god do they suck. (no pun intended.)
 
2012-06-25 12:34:27 PM
I have a wife for sex.

I play video games so I can kill people without getting in trouble.

I don't care to mix these things.
 
2012-06-25 12:34:41 PM
In case you weren't aware of it, there are plenty of sex videogames. It is a thriving industry, people are making a lot of money, and they are doing so pretty much independently of the advertising industry. Lessons which can be taken from that are:

1) Sex sells no matter what the packaging or delivery method is.
2) Some people really are pathetically lacking in social skills.
3) The advertising industry is largely non-essential thanks to the internet.
 
2012-06-25 12:38:01 PM

meat0918: //And who really wants a XXXMMORPG?


Isn't that what Second Life is??
 
2012-06-25 12:38:09 PM
The games industry hasn't reached that level of maturity yet. Not "maturity" as in rating, "maturity" as in being able to tell a compelling story where sex taking part within the context of the game works as a plot element to improve the overall story being told.

Some devs are still trying (BioWare, Quantic Dream, etc.), but we're still some years and some evolution away from really getting to where sex as an integral story element can work well within gameplay.

If games were movies, we're essentially still in the porn and exploitation phase, with some stumbling movement into serious drama and art house territory. Give it time and another generation of game devs. It'll get there.
 
2012-06-25 12:39:51 PM
The Japanese have had ero-games for years. They are basically sexy choose your own adventure stories. If you're really lucky, you get a minigame, but for the most part these games are made to be played "one handed".

Mass effect allowed you to romance and make love, but fade to black. Artistically, there is nothing to be gained from showing Sheppard bone their love interest.

Duke Nukem 3d allowed you to pay a stripper money and she'd flash you.


The honest truth is that for the most part, there is no good way to make a sexual intercourse game mechanic. This immediately makes sex as a game play element completely impractical.

If sex cannot be used as a game play element, then it must be used for plot exposition. Given America's stupid obsession with not seeing naked bodies, It's much more sensible to move plot exposition to some non sexual situation and get the "E for everyone" rating for your first person shooter. ಠ_ಠ

Ultimately, you can't make a good farking minigame, and sex is almost never required for plot exposition.
 
2012-06-25 12:41:11 PM
Leather Goddesses of Phobos?
 
2012-06-25 12:41:21 PM
Because it's perversion. The reason we're such a morally corrupt society is the inclusion of deviant sexual media from other cultures. Frankly anyone who wants sex in video games probably also watches the pornography and should be locked up and given treatment, the same that we do for drug addicts.
 
2012-06-25 12:41:25 PM
Heavy Rain had an interactive sex scene and it felt totally out of place for the medium. It just comes of as strange and pandering when it's thrown in, even if it tries to do it tastefully.
 
2012-06-25 12:41:41 PM

meat0918: Money, and they can make a hell of a lot more selling Teen rated games than Mature or Adults Only. Same reason studios want PG-13 over R movies.


That seems reasonable, except that there's a lot of triple-A titles that are rated M. I don't see a lot of stampeding to get a T rating.

It makes sense if you think about it. The reason that PG-13 is the holy grail in Hollywood is because they want to get entire families to go see their movies and there's a gatekeeper at the ticket window to keep kids out without parents.

When it comes to buying titles for home there aren't nearly as many obstacles to selling an M title, especially since the only gatekeeper is at the point of purchase, where, unlike a movie, you don't have to bring your kids to the counter to buy the product. If a dad wants to buy God of War for his own pleasure, he can do it quite easily, and it's entirely up to him whether or not he wants to let his kids play it, too.
 
2012-06-25 12:43:46 PM

verbal_jizm: Because sex in video games is creepy.


Pretty much.

When it comes to video game violence, we don't care that it's not photo-realistic. In fact, that's one of the things that makes violence in video games so acceptable: it doesn't really look like the real thing.

Sex, though? That falls right into a very creepy crevice of the uncanny valley.
 
2012-06-25 12:43:55 PM
There was a mini event in God of War that allowed you to have your way with some women. It replenished your health and mana, IIRC.
 
2012-06-25 12:44:59 PM
I had sex with a woman with goat legs in The Witcher 2.

I even had to betray someone to do it, but I needed that sweet goat ass.
 
2012-06-25 12:45:01 PM
Because the intersection of "hardcore gamers" and "people who have sex" is a null set.

sithon: Leisure suit Larry disagrees.


Also, this.

/Played LSL waaaay back in the late 1980s on an IBM PS/2 Model 30.
 
2012-06-25 12:45:25 PM

Yuri Futanari: Because it's perversion. The reason we're such a morally corrupt society is the inclusion of deviant sexual media from other cultures. Frankly anyone who wants sex in video games probably also watches the pornography and should be locked up and given treatment, the same that we do for drug addicts.


Hah! You think we actually rehabilitate drug addicts!
 
2012-06-25 12:45:48 PM
And what sex would you put into a video game?

Video games are about about achieving goals through a mixture of puzzles, speed and dexterity. You can make a game where someone has to shoot Nazis without getting shot. But simulating say, seduction isn't easy.

Consider how you get the "Achievement Unlocked: 3rd Base". You've got to be attractive to a woman from a number of points of view like physical attraction, wealth, humour, youth, how you dress, hobbies and so forth. You then need time, the right environment, you need to pace things right. I once was getting on real well with a woman and just went too fast, going for a snog on the first dance, and she blew me out, wouldn't talk to me, answer my calls.

And the problem is that simulating that is pretty complicated, even from just a verbal perspective, because we don't have advanced Turing Test-passing machines that simulate a woman on a date. You can, at best, end up with multiple choice situations, but then, people just work things out quite quickly. Fact is, the most advanced sex game that we have is probably Leisure Suit Larry.
 
2012-06-25 12:46:31 PM

fluffy2097: The Japanese have had ero-games for years. They are basically sexy choose your own adventure stories. If you're really lucky, you get a minigame, but for the most part these games are made to be played "one handed".

Mass effect allowed you to romance and make love, but fade to black. Artistically, there is nothing to be gained from showing Sheppard bone their love interest.

Duke Nukem 3d allowed you to pay a stripper money and she'd flash you.


The honest truth is that for the most part, there is no good way to make a sexual intercourse game mechanic. This immediately makes sex as a game play element completely impractical.

If sex cannot be used as a game play element, then it must be used for plot exposition. Given America's stupid obsession with not seeing naked bodies, It's much more sensible to move plot exposition to some non sexual situation and get the "E for everyone" rating for your first person shooter. ಠ_ಠ

Ultimately, you can't make a good farking minigame, and sex is almost never required for plot exposition.


Almost never, but I can name a few. Godfather II for the 360 has you running a string of brothels, strip joints and a joint that produces porn. Needless to say, the female characters in such locations are typically bikini-clad at most, most often topless or naked. There's also the scene where you catch Senator Geary with a dead hooker.
 
2012-06-25 12:46:45 PM
The self-described "hardcore gamer" won't accept anything like that unless it is as "realistic" as possible, which in current terms means 3D. But the 3D graphics folks have yet to make it look realistic enough: in the context of the current crop of games that have tried this, "uncanny valley" is no mere innuendo.

Among those who don't fetishize realism quite so much, there's been a thriving industry in this sort of thing for years if not decades.
 
2012-06-25 12:46:48 PM
What I want to know is why I can watch a man cut off his own nipples or get literally shot to pieces in the middle of the day on cable but a woman taking a shower or changing clothes causes a sh*tstorm of controversy.

This country is fncked up.

As far as video games go...

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-25 12:46:55 PM

fluffy2097: Mass effect allowed you to romance and make love, but fade to black. Artistically, there is nothing to be gained from showing Sheppard bone their love interest.


Out of all of Biowares games that had an intimate scene, the first Mass Effect had the only good one. Darkened camera, out of focus, didn't really show much but it doesn't have to. The later games, as well as Dragon Age, were just messes of horribly jerky animations and looked terribly out of place. They should have just stuck with the same style as ME1, or done nothing and keep the fade-to-black standard.
 
2012-06-25 12:50:56 PM

Yuri Futanari: Because it's perversion. The reason we're such a morally corrupt society is the inclusion of deviant sexual media from other cultures. Frankly anyone who wants sex in video games probably also watches the pornography and should be locked up and given treatment, the same that we do for drug addicts.


Your handle is what makes that post
 
2012-06-25 12:51:08 PM

MightyPez: Heavy Rain had an interactive sex scene and it felt totally out of place for the medium. It just comes of as strange and pandering when it's thrown in, even if it tries to do it tastefully.


Haha man I forgot about that scene in that game. That was the weirdest/funniest segment in any game that I've ever played.
 
2012-06-25 12:51:18 PM
Video games are much more about violence than they are about sex, in general.

Killing someone is a an easy way to determine whether you win. You kill, you win. You don't, you lose. Simple as that.

What would be the end game for a sex-based game? Getting video-laid? I feel like getting turned down by a video game girl would be a new low for many gamers out there.....
 
2012-06-25 12:54:34 PM

keepitcherry: MightyPez: Heavy Rain had an interactive sex scene and it felt totally out of place for the medium. It just comes of as strange and pandering when it's thrown in, even if it tries to do it tastefully.

Haha man I forgot about that scene in that game. That was the weirdest/funniest segment in any game that I've ever played.


What made it worse for me is my best friend would watch me play it because we were both so engaged with the story. After a few minutes I shouted out, "For the record this is pretty uncomfortable and I don't think there is a way to skip it. I have to keep fondling her until it's done!"
 
2012-06-25 12:54:44 PM

Beaver1224: The biggest obstacle is that too many people who would oppose putting sex in anything cannot admit that "video games" can be for adults.

/Hot Coffee


The funny thing about Hot Coffee is games showed everything that showed without a ratings problem. The only substantive difference was that Hot Coffee had interactivity during the sex act, and the circumstances of Hot Coffee's discovery.
 
2012-06-25 12:59:38 PM

netweavr: meat0918: //And who really wants a XXXMMORPG?

You mean Second Life?


aka Furry Valhalla
 
2012-06-25 01:00:43 PM

Aarontology: Because sex scenes in movies are stupid, unrealistic, and gratuitous even though there are real actors.

Video game sex scenes are even worse.


some_beer_drinker: because porn?



aaaaaand thread/
 
2012-06-25 01:00:45 PM

farkeruk: And what sex would you put into a video game?

Video games are about about achieving goals through a mixture of puzzles, speed and dexterity. You can make a game where someone has to shoot Nazis without getting shot. But simulating say, seduction isn't easy.

Consider how you get the "Achievement Unlocked: 3rd Base". You've got to be attractive to a woman from a number of points of view like physical attraction, wealth, humour, youth, how you dress, hobbies and so forth. You then need time, the right environment, you need to pace things right. I once was getting on real well with a woman and just went too fast, going for a snog on the first dance, and she blew me out, wouldn't talk to me, answer my calls.

And the problem is that simulating that is pretty complicated, even from just a verbal perspective, because we don't have advanced Turing Test-passing machines that simulate a woman on a date. You can, at best, end up with multiple choice situations, but then, people just work things out quite quickly. Fact is, the most advanced sex game that we have is probably Leisure Suit Larry.


That's why there are tenacles. Lots of tentacles. And robots.
 
2012-06-25 01:04:42 PM
Don't the console manufacturers have final say in what titles can be published for their machine? I'm sure Sony's would not want the reputation for being the pron console, so they don't allow devs to make pron games for the PS3.

So that would leave PCs as the place for pron gaming... and if you are on a PC find pron is not exactly difficult.
 
2012-06-25 01:06:13 PM

Kuroshin: The games industry hasn't reached that level of maturity yet. Not "maturity" as in rating, "maturity" as in being able to tell a compelling story where sex taking part within the context of the game works as a plot element to improve the overall story being told.

Some devs are still trying (BioWare, Quantic Dream, etc.), but we're still some years and some evolution away from really getting to where sex as an integral story element can work well within gameplay.

If games were movies, we're essentially still in the porn and exploitation phase, with some stumbling movement into serious drama and art house territory. Give it time and another generation of game devs. It'll get there.


Yeah, came here to say almost exactly this. As others note, there are tons of sex games, but there aren't very many games that aren't about sex, but still include it as a plot or character device. Probably Bioware is the most cutting edge in that regard, but they still haven't quite got it right.
 
2012-06-25 01:08:15 PM
About the only "sex" in video games I ever found worthwhile was Liberty City were you could get a hooker, drive into some trees, and get a health bonus. It was amusing and you could kill her to get your money back. Even then they didn't show it, they just played some amusing sounds of the car's suspension squeaking.

As others have said, you're playing video games to do something you normally can't do. Everyone can jerk off except for the paraplegics.
 
2012-06-25 01:11:21 PM
Because DDR style game mechanics are hard to do one handed?
 
2012-06-25 01:13:11 PM

farkeruk: And what sex would you put into a video game?

Arcanum

.

You can do multiple quests for a brothel, including turning tricks.

One quest humorously involves an orgiastic hippie cult. Friendly bunch, actually. They just wanted to celebrate their religion by making a big pile of naked and farking each other.

In a complete flavor change from the above two, another quest involves delving into a conspiracy concerning the origins of half-ogre slaves. It should not take a lecture about birds and bees to figure out that half-ogres don't come from pelicans. Not any action per se, but at one point you read a lab journal that should chill you to the bone.

The sex actually was anything but explicit (fade to black and you wake up on the floor), and in every case optional. However, it was done well enough that (if the game had the resources to make it worthwhile) showing the action may very well have added to the experience, not cheapen it.

Sex isn't always gratuitous or creepy. We're only familiar with sex as gratuitous or creepy in video games only because that's the only way it's served. Arcanum made me feel like not only can it be done, but they only scratched the surface of how to do it right.
 
2012-06-25 01:13:13 PM
Okay, I think a lot of people in here are a bit confused by how 'sex scenes' are usually done in video games. Many are describing the sex sense in video games as 'porn.' When I think of porn, I think of content actively showing sex organs being stimulated (penis, vagina).

However, I do not think of 'porn' as two video game models with their underwear still on doing a quick grind and kiss session before the game fades to black preventing you from seeing the real dirty deeds to follow.

I think there's a bit of a difference there.

I didn't read the whole article, though. So maybe the author really is calling for more X rated pornographic farking in video games.
 
2012-06-25 01:13:34 PM

Saiga410: Because DDR style game mechanics are hard to do one handed?


Pshaw. Newgrounds has trained me well.
 
2012-06-25 01:16:40 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: meat0918: Money, and they can make a hell of a lot more selling Teen rated games than Mature or Adults Only. Same reason studios want PG-13 over R movies.

That seems reasonable, except that there's a lot of triple-A titles that are rated M. I don't see a lot of stampeding to get a T rating.

It makes sense if you think about it. The reason that PG-13 is the holy grail in Hollywood is because they want to get entire families to go see their movies and there's a gatekeeper at the ticket window to keep kids out without parents.

When it comes to buying titles for home there aren't nearly as many obstacles to selling an M title, especially since the only gatekeeper is at the point of purchase, where, unlike a movie, you don't have to bring your kids to the counter to buy the product. If a dad wants to buy God of War for his own pleasure, he can do it quite easily, and it's entirely up to him whether or not he wants to let his kids play it, too.


I posted, and realized the big hitters are M games, M for all the violence, not the sex content though.

Why is it we have a big problem with breasts, but have no problem with entrails and knocking someone out of their skin?

And lord help us if we have full frontal female nudity. If there is full frontal male nudity? Well, it's the end of the world as we know it! Cats and dogs living together! MASS HYSTERIA!
 
2012-06-25 01:18:57 PM

Cythraul: Okay, I think a lot of people in here are a bit confused by how 'sex scenes' are usually done in video games. Many are describing the sex sense in video games as 'porn.' When I think of porn, I think of content actively showing sex organs being stimulated (penis, vagina).

However, I do not think of 'porn' as two video game models with their underwear still on doing a quick grind and kiss session before the game fades to black preventing you from seeing the real dirty deeds to follow.

I think there's a bit of a difference there.

I didn't read the whole article, though. So maybe the author really is calling for more X rated pornographic farking in video games.


I think you're missing the point. The issue was that sex is rarely done in video games, period*. If video games are telling a story (which more and more are doing), then why don't those stories include intimacy? Is Nathan Drake asexual, for example?

As noted above, as video game developers mature and figure out to tell an interactive story better, there will be more sex in games.

*other than sex games, but they're a lot more explicit than grinding in underwear
 
2012-06-25 01:19:09 PM

wingnut396: Don't the console manufacturers have final say in what titles can be published for their machine? I'm sure Sony's would not want the reputation for being the pron console, so they don't allow devs to make pron games for the PS3.


It didn't stop them from putting major nudity/off screen sex mini-games in the PSP God of War games, tho. I'm always surprised that the MSM and/or puritans never get up in arms about GoW.
 
2012-06-25 01:24:59 PM

MightyPez: keepitcherry: MightyPez: Heavy Rain had an interactive sex scene and it felt totally out of place for the medium. It just comes of as strange and pandering when it's thrown in, even if it tries to do it tastefully.

Haha man I forgot about that scene in that game. That was the weirdest/funniest segment in any game that I've ever played.

What made it worse for me is my best friend would watch me play it because we were both so engaged with the story. After a few minutes I shouted out, "For the record this is pretty uncomfortable and I don't think there is a way to skip it. I have to keep fondling her until it's done!"


Seriously the funniest thing I've read in a week. Can't stop laughing.
 
2012-06-25 01:27:15 PM

dragonchild: farkeruk: And what sex would you put into a video game?

Arcanum.

You can do multiple quests for a brothel, including turning tricks.

One quest humorously involves an orgiastic hippie cult. Friendly bunch, actually. They just wanted to celebrate their religion by making a big pile of naked and farking each other.

In a complete flavor change from the above two, another quest involves delving into a conspiracy concerning the origins of half-ogre slaves. It should not take a lecture about birds and bees to figure out that half-ogres don't come from pelicans. Not any action per se, but at one point you read a lab journal that should chill you to the bone.

The sex actually was anything but explicit (fade to black and you wake up on the floor), and in every case optional. However, it was done well enough that (if the game had the resources to make it worthwhile) showing the action may very well have added to the experience, not cheapen it.

Sex isn't always gratuitous or creepy. We're only familiar with sex as gratuitous or creepy in video games only because that's the only way it's served. Arcanum made me feel like not only can it be done, but they only scratched the surface of how to do it right.


Arcanum and Fallout 2 did the sex in video games well.

Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines did it pretty well too. The only sex is the opening scene, and it's the whole reason for your transformation.

The Malkavian crazy lady and the Toreador sex kitten insinuated quite a bit too.
 
2012-06-25 01:31:38 PM
Once the graphics get this good:

img707.imageshack.us

Then and maybe then I'll be interested. But right now, the girl on the games dont do it for me.
 
2012-06-25 01:35:12 PM

meat0918: Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines did it pretty well too. The only sex is the opening scene, and it's the whole reason for your transformation.

The Malkavian crazy lady and the Toreador sex kitten insinuated quite a bit too.


img837.imageshack.us

Her?

I've roleplayed Vampire from the very beginning but stopped a long time ago. Most my gaming buddies moved away after college and I dont have anyone to game with. Thought about picking up this game just for the nostalgia.
 
2012-06-25 01:37:33 PM
The uncensored version of the Witcher was fun. Problem was I had to stop playing every time I got a card. For a few minutes. And then I could keep playing again.
 
2012-06-25 01:41:09 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Once the graphics get this good:

[img707.imageshack.us image 500x773]

Then and maybe then I'll be interested. But right now, the girl on the games dont do it for me.


memeorama.com
 
2012-06-25 01:42:45 PM

fawlty: wingnut396: Don't the console manufacturers have final say in what titles can be published for their machine? I'm sure Sony's would not want the reputation for being the pron console, so they don't allow devs to make pron games for the PS3.

It didn't stop them from putting major nudity/off screen sex mini-games in the PSP God of War games, tho. I'm always surprised that the MSM and/or puritans never get up in arms about GoW.


Probably because if you're going to complain a bout God of War, the "punching faces into hamburger" outweighs "sexy sounds off screen".

/I've never complained a bout GoW.
 
2012-06-25 01:43:41 PM

meat0918: I posted, and realized the big hitters are M games, M for all the violence, not the sex content though.

Why is it we have a big problem with breasts, but have no problem with entrails and knocking someone out of their skin?

And lord help us if we have full frontal female nudity. If there is full frontal male nudity? Well, it's the end of the world as we know it! Cats and dogs living together! MASS HYSTERIA!


Part of that is because anything too explicit gets an A rating, which really is the ghetto for gaming, but another part of that is that sex in game is really, really cheesy. I can see a case being made that this is part of our weird sexual taboos but, honestly, I'm not really sure I ever want to see Mario plunging the Princesses pasta, if you know what I mean.

You do see some nudity (God of War and Diablo, to give two examples), but it almost always comes across as being a lame attempt at titillation. It's also not like M-rated titles avoid sexualization. I don't really think that anyone can look at a game like Bayonetta and not see that 90% of the reason for the game was to put a hot chick in an absurdly tight outfit so that she could fight monsters with stripper moves.
 
2012-06-25 01:46:09 PM

meat0918: Why is it we have a big problem with breasts, but have no problem with entrails and knocking someone out of their skin?


Intimacy. In the video game world, the behavior inhibitors of pain and embarrassment get screwed up because pain drops to zero. In that context, killing someone in public is much easier than falling in love. Having seen it done well (Arcanum, Mass Effect et. al.) I do think it's perfectly acceptable to express sexuality in a one-player game intended to be played privately. But at least as far as Western developers are concerned, the big money's in on-line gaming. If you're gutted in a video game in public, you feel no pain. If you gut someone, you feel no remorse. But if you're stripped naked and farked doggie-style, even with the cloak of anonymity people would feel real shame and a lot of witnesses would feel awkward. Oops.

The other side of it is that properly weaving exposition and context into a sexual situation requires writing skills and most video game developers are crappy writers. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but even most games that DO have writing are on the level of pulp. Let's face it; most fans wouldn't have it any other way. That does, however, explain why games tend to shy away from anything more complex than "humans rock, monsters suck". It doesn't take writing talent to make an enjoyable shoot-'em-up, which is why I believe most developers take the easy way out and only portray sex in campy ways, like beating up the hooker in GTA. Scripting actual mature sex requires, well, maturity, which is something either video game writers lack or they believe their fans lack. And if it's the latter, as far as I know they're right.

I think you're wrong about one thing, though -- it's not the actual skin the prudes are concerned with. In what I daresay is by far the creepiest aspect of sex in video games, the prudes are far more threatened by physical intimacy than nudity. Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 featured girls in "bathing suits" that left damn near nothing to the imagination (except for how the fark they stayed on) frolicking like skanks during Spring Break. This wasn't exactly a secret; the fanservice was the marketing and the product. And while I can pick on that one, there are countless games packed to the gills with fanservice (some right on the cover -- X-Blades, anyone?) that draw hardly more than a look of annoyance. Mass Effect showed a little sideboob in a love scene between two consenting adults as a culmination of a relationship pursued over dozens of hours of character development in an otherwise un-sexy sci-fi RPG. Guess which one drew the ire of the derp brigade.
 
2012-06-25 01:46:18 PM
Haven't you seen/heard/read all the aversion to booth babes from gamers as of late, subby?

The modern crop of gamers fancy themselves enlightened and above all those sorts of crude human displays.

/even though they're actually just afraid of their of sexuality
 
2012-06-25 01:54:20 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: meat0918:I can see a case being made that this is part of our weird sexual taboos but, honestly, I'm not really sure I ever want to see Mario plunging the Princesses pasta, if you know what I mean.


No, what do you mean?
 
2012-06-25 01:58:11 PM

meat0918: dragonchild: farkeruk: And what sex would you put into a video game?

Arcanum.

You can do multiple quests for a brothel, including turning tricks.

One quest humorously involves an orgiastic hippie cult. Friendly bunch, actually. They just wanted to celebrate their religion by making a big pile of naked and farking each other.

In a complete flavor change from the above two, another quest involves delving into a conspiracy concerning the origins of half-ogre slaves. It should not take a lecture about birds and bees to figure out that half-ogres don't come from pelicans. Not any action per se, but at one point you read a lab journal that should chill you to the bone.

The sex actually was anything but explicit (fade to black and you wake up on the floor), and in every case optional. However, it was done well enough that (if the game had the resources to make it worthwhile) showing the action may very well have added to the experience, not cheapen it.

Sex isn't always gratuitous or creepy. We're only familiar with sex as gratuitous or creepy in video games only because that's the only way it's served. Arcanum made me feel like not only can it be done, but they only scratched the surface of how to do it right.

Arcanum and Fallout 2 did the sex in video games well.

Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines did it pretty well too. The only sex is the opening scene, and it's the whole reason for your transformation.

The Malkavian crazy lady and the Toreador sex kitten insinuated quite a bit too.


also FTM Bloodlines for the win.

Being a beautiful monster with the Toreador was 1 step below sparkly vampire, even when it came down to your adoring wide eyed girl who follows you around.

Who was pretty much there to lure men into your apartment for you to feed off of, or for you to fark as you saw fit (Toreador for the win). You even got the best armor in the game if you treated her right.

Provided you were not all creepy vampire "YOU ARE A GHOUL NOW, DEAL WITH IT."

Catch and release is the best method.

thumbs2.modthesims2.com
//Oh, the fun we shall have my dear.
 
2012-06-25 02:01:01 PM
www.blogcdn.com
 
2012-06-25 02:04:26 PM
They call her Tipper, Tipper; viewpoints are frightening.
No one you see, is more prudish than she...except Hilary.

Link
List - Video Slideshow
 
2012-06-25 02:09:09 PM
?

The only issues that anyone's really had with consensual sex on the level of national media biatching was ME 1 and the Hot Coffee thing, and the latter was just because they hadn't fulfilled their quota of biatching about GTA that month. Since then there's been Dragon Age, DA2, God of War (various), several Fallout games, The Old Republic MMO, and of course a calvacade of actual porn titles that feature sex as a major plot element, sometimes moderately explicit sex. And not a single fark was given by the media or anyone else.

It's not usually interactive, just used as a plot element/cutscence, but frankly that's probably because there isn't really any particularly good way to make it interactive mechanically.

I think the complaints about Tomb Raider are more about it being kind of annoying to give a formerly fairly entertaining action-girl type heroine the standard generic, stupid rape trauma storyline. It's a retarded place to go with a character that typically laughs in the face of death and then kicks it in the balls (then jumps in completely in the wrong direction from the ledge and plummets to her death because fark this retarded control scheme.)
 
2012-06-25 02:13:59 PM

mechgreg: [www.blogcdn.com image 490x269]


Was looking for an image of Frank with his theory about how realistic characters/sex can be in games before it gets creepy. Yours covers it, though. +1 internets for you, sir.
 
2012-06-25 02:18:05 PM
I've seen a fair few attempts, and all of them failures.
 
2012-06-25 02:20:15 PM
Probably for the same reason that mainstream movies don't feature hard-core sex scenes.
 
2012-06-25 02:30:27 PM
Because honestly, till now it always looked a bit goofy. A lot of games try to look real, and honestly, it's a sort of uncanny valley thing when they try to make nudity look good.

Ero-games have had it for some time, in the form of stylized artwork, but that's really about it so far as actual sex goes. In terms of nudity, games like GoW, Witcher, heavy rain, and a few others have had it with some success.

Honestly, I just don't think most game developers don't really know how to use it for dramatic effect, and so they don't use it.
 
2012-06-25 02:33:35 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: meat0918: Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines did it pretty well too. The only sex is the opening scene, and it's the whole reason for your transformation.

The Malkavian crazy lady and the Toreador sex kitten insinuated quite a bit too.

[img837.imageshack.us image 560x674]

Her?

I've roleplayed Vampire from the very beginning but stopped a long time ago. Most my gaming buddies moved away after college and I dont have anyone to game with. Thought about picking up this game just for the nostalgia.


I played it a bit in college. Always loved the Gangrel. I still remember his weapon of choice, sawed off shotgun loaded with specially made phosphorous rounds.
 
2012-06-25 02:33:54 PM

A Leaf in Fall: The uncensored version of the Witcher was fun. Problem was I had to stop playing every time I got a card. For a few minutes. And then I could keep playing again.


2.bp.blogspot.com

Ploughing ain't dead. These devs just scared.
 
2012-06-25 02:37:05 PM
*cough* Japan...*cough*
 
2012-06-25 02:45:04 PM

meat0918: Some 'Splainin' To Do: meat0918: Money, and they can make a hell of a lot more selling Teen rated games than Mature or Adults Only. Same reason studios want PG-13 over R movies.

That seems reasonable, except that there's a lot of triple-A titles that are rated M. I don't see a lot of stampeding to get a T rating.

It makes sense if you think about it. The reason that PG-13 is the holy grail in Hollywood is because they want to get entire families to go see their movies and there's a gatekeeper at the ticket window to keep kids out without parents.

When it comes to buying titles for home there aren't nearly as many obstacles to selling an M title, especially since the only gatekeeper is at the point of purchase, where, unlike a movie, you don't have to bring your kids to the counter to buy the product. If a dad wants to buy God of War for his own pleasure, he can do it quite easily, and it's entirely up to him whether or not he wants to let his kids play it, too.

I posted, and realized the big hitters are M games, M for all the violence, not the sex content though.

Why is it we have a big problem with breasts, but have no problem with entrails and knocking someone out of their skin?

And lord help us if we have full frontal female nudity. If there is full frontal male nudity? Well, it's the end of the world as we know it! Cats and dogs living together! MASS HYSTERIA!


I'm good with some full frontal female nudity.

The censors can keep the schlongs, though.

/I keed
//but not really
 
2012-06-25 02:56:14 PM

Codenamechaz: Well that and polygonal breasts would look terrible.


i.ytimg.com

You'll put your eye out...
/Hot like the Fire Temple
 
2012-06-25 02:56:19 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Once the graphics get this good:

[img707.imageshack.us image 500x773]

Then and maybe then I'll be interested. But right now, the girl on the games dont do it for me.


Needs to be better than that. I mean, that's some great texturing, but the flesh tones are all wonky; they've got this weird orange cast.
 
2012-06-25 03:03:42 PM

verbal_jizm: Because sex in video games is creepy.


Yup.
 
2012-06-25 03:09:30 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Haven't you seen/heard/read all the aversion to booth babes from gamers as of late, subby?

The modern crop of gamers fancy themselves enlightened and above all those sorts of crude human displays.

/even though they're actually just afraid of their of sexuality


Or, perhaps, just not enslaved to it. If you're not looking through boner-tinted glasses, booth babe displays come off as nonsensical at best, usually really tasteless, and sometimes just plain creepy. The only reason to use them is to market to people who can't handle them.
 
2012-06-25 03:12:51 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I'm not really sure I ever want to see Mario plunging the Princesses pasta, if you know what I mean.


I'd probably make an exception for Mario. Middle age, blue mushrooms and cuckholding with Bowser. Intuitive controls. Easy to learn sort of difficult to master. Fun at parties. I'd buy it.
 
2012-06-25 03:13:50 PM

homarjr: Video games are much more about violence than they are about sex, in general.

Killing someone is a an easy way to determine whether you win. You kill, you win. You don't, you lose. Simple as that.

What would be the end game for a sex-based game? Getting video-laid? I feel like getting turned down by a video game girl would be a new low for many gamers out there.....


art.penny-arcade.com

/hot
 
2012-06-25 03:16:50 PM
Fallout New Vegas gets this one right. The sex scenes are just fade to black (mainly because I think you can't have nudity on any of the consoles), but you can choose to be a male or female character and then choose perks that let you seduce either male or female characters (you can have both perks at the same time). There are also male and female prostitutes (duh, it's Vegas) which any character can bed (if you have the perks they tend to give you discounts or free). The "seduction" perks will also sometimes make certain NPCs give you other things. (Plus there's a bonus damage against the sex the perk applies to in combat.)
 
2012-06-25 03:18:39 PM
i.imgur.com

I miss dithered, early 90's graphics.

It makes me think of a time when women had thick, full, unshaven bush. Playing games from that era make me feel like I'm back in those days where any woman's pantsu I could pull down, I could stick my face into a wonderful, thick, fragrant dark forest.
 
2012-06-25 03:24:40 PM
I don't see the point to fully realised sex in video games, unless you're playing Prince of Whips: Dungeon Master, it's useless. Context is important. Same with movies or European deodorant commercials, boobs are appreciated but not necessary and I wouldn't cry foul if they we're removed or omitted in the first place.

Basic Instinct is a good example where nudity was called for in my opinion. I can't really think of one Video game that it was used appropriately but then again, I don't play much video games anymore.

Leisure suit Larry didn't have any nudity in it unless you used cheats. That's what I remember anyway. Those games were full of good humor. I remember having to call up my uncle for the answers to those questions that let you in the game. He bought it for me, good ol uncle Pete.
 
2012-06-25 03:26:57 PM

Millennium: Or, perhaps, just not enslaved to it. If you're not looking through boner-tinted glasses, booth babe displays come off as nonsensical at best, usually really tasteless, and sometimes just plain creepy. The only reason to use them is to market to people who can't handle them.


Those are some really bad writing skills going on there or some bizarre thought processes.

The only reason to use them is to market to people who can't handle them.

As an example, what does this even mean. You hire booth babes in order to market to people who can't handle booth babes? What does it mean to "handle" a booth babe? Or do you mean that you believe people hire booth babes in order to drive away people who are too embarrassed to talk to booth babes (which makes no sense)?
 
2012-06-25 03:34:41 PM

ProfessorOhki: Needs to be better than that. I mean, that's some great texturing, but the flesh tones are all wonky; they've got this weird orange cast.


img651.imageshack.us

img835.imageshack.us

img441.imageshack.us

Yeah, she is down right fugly....

/rather have the brunette
 
2012-06-25 03:37:19 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Millennium: Or, perhaps, just not enslaved to it. If you're not looking through boner-tinted glasses, booth babe displays come off as nonsensical at best, usually really tasteless, and sometimes just plain creepy. The only reason to use them is to market to people who can't handle them.

Those are some really bad writing skills going on there or some bizarre thought processes.

The only reason to use them is to market to people who can't handle them.

As an example, what does this even mean. You hire booth babes in order to market to people who can't handle booth babes? What does it mean to "handle" a booth babe? Or do you mean that you believe people hire booth babes in order to drive away people who are too embarrassed to talk to booth babes (which makes no sense)?


I think what he means is that booth babes are used to reel in the suckers who don't have the maturity to realize that the booth babe is their to sucker them in. The booth babes are usually not there for people who are more interested in story, mechanics, visuals the game provides. The assertation is that gamers are smart enough to know when their being baited with sex instead of a good game, and the ones who can "handle it" (the ones who are more interested in the game than the pair of tits shilling for the game) see right through this trick.
 
2012-06-25 03:53:56 PM

Celerian: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Millennium: Or, perhaps, just not enslaved to it. If you're not looking through boner-tinted glasses, booth babe displays come off as nonsensical at best, usually really tasteless, and sometimes just plain creepy. The only reason to use them is to market to people who can't handle them.

Those are some really bad writing skills going on there or some bizarre thought processes.

The only reason to use them is to market to people who can't handle them.

As an example, what does this even mean. You hire booth babes in order to market to people who can't handle booth babes? What does it mean to "handle" a booth babe? Or do you mean that you believe people hire booth babes in order to drive away people who are too embarrassed to talk to booth babes (which makes no sense)?

I think what he means is that booth babes are used to reel in the suckers who don't have the maturity to realize that the booth babe is their to sucker them in. The booth babes are usually not there for people who are more interested in story, mechanics, visuals the game provides.


I hear this argument a lot (basically "the PAX argument"). Given that most booths have limited demos at trade shows, you're going to get better information from just looking on the Internet. This is aside from the fact that shows like PAX have seemingly arbitrary rule enforcement.

The assertation is that gamers are smart enough to know when their being baited with sex instead of a good game, and the ones who can "handle it" (the ones who are more interested in the game than the pair of tits shilling for the game) see right through this trick.

It amuses me that "gamers" are offended when they are lumped into a group, except when they're lumped into a group as all being super enlightened and above-average with regards to intelligence and people skills.

/if you're above being baited, the booth babes are irrelevant to you
//but since the hatred of them is palpable in some quarters, i can only assume it's either actual misogyny ("what are these sluts doing at *our* event") or white-knighting ("if I object loudly to these women being paid to be models, I can get women who also dislike them to like me!"
///het men like boobs near them any time, it's nature
 
2012-06-25 04:05:20 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: What I want to know is why I can watch a man cut off his own nipples or get literally shot to pieces in the middle of the day on cable but a woman taking a shower or changing clothes causes a sh*tstorm of controversy.

This country is fncked up.

As far as video games go...

24.media.tumblr.com

 
2012-06-25 04:12:33 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: ProfessorOhki: Needs to be better than that. I mean, that's some great texturing, but the flesh tones are all wonky; they've got this weird orange cast.

[img651.imageshack.us image 640x426]

[img835.imageshack.us image 640x480]

[img441.imageshack.us image 640x427]

Yeah, she is down right fugly....

/rather have the brunette


Seriously. See how every photo cuts off right before the knees?

/You know, on account of the pointiness

Celerian: The assertation is that gamers are smart enough to know when their being baited with sex instead of a good game, and the ones who can "handle it" (the ones who are more interested in the game than the pair of tits shilling for the game) see right through this trick.


Just like a serious moviegoer doesn't waste their time with oversexed movies and the flicks with attractive actresses in skimpy clothing are generally box office disasters? I don't disagree, but I can't help but feel like you might be giving the gaming community a tiny bit more credit than deserved.
 
2012-06-25 04:20:50 PM
Space Channel 5 was a great sex game. Ever since the Dreamcast days, I can't have sex without rhythmically chanting the litany.

/ up up, up right down
// chu chu chu
 
2012-06-25 04:36:53 PM

rickycal78: Mike_LowELL: ITT: People who have never visited ULMF or Hongfire claim there is no sex in video games.

(Obviously, that statement carries the mother of all NSFW connotations, should you choose to visit either.)

I have no idea what ULMF is, but I've visited hongfire before and was rather amazed at the collection of sex games you can find there along with mods and what not for each. Thing is, the vast majority of them appeared to be of Japanese in origin and all the good bits were censored.

Yes folks, there's loads of games that are about nothing but sex, but dear god do they suck. (no pun intended.)


BUT WUT THAY LACK IN GAMEPLAYS THEY MAEK UP FOR IN RAEP RAEP RAEP
 
2012-06-25 04:41:25 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: /if you're above being baited, the booth babes are irrelevant to you


The thing is, they're not, because they attract the sorts of people I don't want to play with: the ones ruin it for everyone else by driving away the interesting people.

//but since the hatred of them is palpable in some quarters, i can only assume it's either actual misogyny ("what are these sluts doing at *our* event") or white-knighting ("if I object loudly to these women being paid to be models, I can get women who also dislike them to like me!"
///het men like boobs near them any time, it's nature


The prosecution rests, fratcore.
 
2012-06-25 04:51:03 PM
Just remember, that "hot female" character your character is banging is really a 300 lb fat guy that lives in his mom's basement.
 
2012-06-25 04:58:37 PM

ProfessorOhki: Seriously. See how every photo cuts off right before the knees?

/You know, on account of the pointiness


That is a serious concern
 
2012-06-25 05:00:02 PM
Because losers like my brother get their asses beat every time and then say "good game, good game," repeatedly into his Dreamcast headset to let other gamers know he's a whiny crying b*tch who likes having his own ass handed to him.

/he hides from me because he knows he will get his ass beat when I find him
//petty f*cking thief, steal from your own brother
///grown male adult hiding behind his mommy from his younger brother -- what. a. b*tch.
//because they can't get laid -- like my brother
 
2012-06-25 05:00:27 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: //but since the hatred of them is palpable in some quarters, i can only assume it's either actual misogyny ("what are these sluts doing at *our* event") or white-knighting ("if I object loudly to these women being paid to be models, I can get women who also dislike them to like me!"


If those are the only two options you can think of, you need to go back to the drawing board. How about disgust over pandering to half of the game's audience while alienating the other half?
But it's natural that it didn't occur to you, since it's clear you don't think that other half exists:
///het men like boobs near them any time, it's nature
 
2012-06-25 05:04:29 PM
The most adult game I've played in recent memory

assets.nydailynews.com

It started off slow, really slow. But once it picked up, holy shiat.

// This game is just plain farked up.

// FBI guy died, I rescued the boy, killer got away.

// Haven't done a second playthrough yet, but watched a video of the 'worst possible' ending, and damn.
 
2012-06-25 05:14:31 PM

rickycal78: Yes folks, there's loads of games that are about nothing but sex, but dear god do they suck.


Almost all of them do. Found a few diamonds in the rough that were well worth it.
 
2012-06-25 05:17:14 PM

ZoSo_the_Crowe: [i.imgur.com image 639x396]

I miss dithered, early 90's graphics.

It makes me think of a time when women had thick, full, unshaven bush. Playing games from that era make me feel like I'm back in those days where any woman's pantsu I could pull down, I could stick my face into a wonderful, thick, fragrant dark forest.


It loses it's charm when there is no CRT.
 
2012-06-25 05:17:15 PM

Millennium: The thing is, they're not, because they attract the sorts of people I don't want to play with: the ones ruin it for everyone else by driving away the interesting people.


Ah, so you're one of the people who wants to determine who is and who is not a "gamer".

You don't know it, but you're actually the problem with gaming today.
 
2012-06-25 05:19:06 PM

Theaetetus: If those are the only two options you can think of, you need to go back to the drawing board. How about disgust over pandering to half of the game's audience while alienating the other half?
But it's natural that it didn't occur to you, since it's clear you don't think that other half exists:
///het men like boobs near them any time, it's nature


Because I hear het men complaining about booth babes much, much, much more often than I hear women complain about them. Even on the Internet.

And if it's that much more prevalent on the Internet, that's sayin' something.

/but hey, I don't hate on models for doin' their jobs, so I've got one up on these folks, too
 
2012-06-25 05:20:34 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Millennium: The thing is, they're not, because they attract the sorts of people I don't want to play with: the ones ruin it for everyone else by driving away the interesting people.

Ah, so you're one of the people who wants to determine who is and who is not a "gamer".


I only see an attempt to classify "interesting", which is to say "not vapid". It's rather vague, but I agree.

Call me elitist but any market that is easily manipulated by booth babes is probably packed with people I'd rather not have making choices on my behalf. Case in point, there are two flavors of Resident Evil fans -- those who liked 1-4, and those who like what they're doing with it now.
 
2012-06-25 05:26:33 PM

dragonchild: I only see an attempt to classify "interesting", which is to say "not vapid". It's rather vague, but I agree.

Call me elitist but any market that is easily manipulated by booth babes is probably packed with people I'd rather not have making choices on my behalf. Case in point, there are two flavors of Resident Evil fans -- those who liked 1-4, and those who like what they're doing with it now.


It was a very clear implication that only the people whom the poster considers interesting are "proper" gamers.

Gamers are allowed to be different than what the stereotype is, gamers are allowed to like different things and gamers are allowed to have different personalities.

It's like that silly comic going around with the conventionally attractive girl nibbling on the controller and the "Marigold"-like character at the bottom, declaring that one is a gamer and one is a "slut with a controller".

The folks white-knighting women (and women gamers) are actually harming them, and they don't even realize it.
 
2012-06-25 05:32:12 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Theaetetus: If those are the only two options you can think of, you need to go back to the drawing board. How about disgust over pandering to half of the game's audience while alienating the other half?
But it's natural that it didn't occur to you, since it's clear you don't think that other half exists:
///het men like boobs near them any time, it's nature

Because I hear het men complaining about booth babes much, much, much more often than I hear women complain about them. Even on the Internet.


Confirmation bias is a terrible thing, huh?

/but hey, I don't hate on models for doin' their jobs, so I've got one up on these folks, too

I'm not sure how you got that those folks "hate" the models. Rather, it's the game company that draws ire, not the models. Maybe that's why you've missed all the complaints?
 
2012-06-25 05:33:51 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: The folks white-knighting women (and women gamers) are actually harming them, and they don't even realize it.


i235.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-25 05:35:21 PM

lordargent: The most adult game I've played in recent memory

[assets.nydailynews.com image 485x364]

It started off slow, really slow. But once it picked up, holy shiat.

// This game is just plain farked up.

// FBI guy died, I rescued the boy, killer got away.

// Haven't done a second playthrough yet, but watched a video of the 'worst possible' ending, and damn.


A good example on how maybe we should get the basics like plot done right in video games before we start working on smaller details.
 
2012-06-25 05:40:43 PM

Theaetetus: I'm not sure how you got that those folks "hate" the models. Rather, it's the game company that draws ire, not the models. Maybe that's why you've missed all the complaints?


Any time some poster refers to the booth babe as "some bimbo" or "some slut" who "doesn't know jack" about the game at the booth, that's hating the model.

Theaetetus: Confirmation bias is a terrible thing, huh?


I could be wrong and everyone simply wanted a sterile, rated-G environment that is "nothing but the facts" (which sounds dreadfully boring to me), but that flies in the face of all that I've experienced thus far. White knighting and calling models names have been the order of the day for a long time. I refer you to the above-mentioned, frequently liked by "real gamers", "slut with a controller" comic.

Though I've watched you posting for a long time, so I know you're never going to even admit that I might be on to something.
 
2012-06-25 05:42:08 PM

Lumbar Puncture: lordargent: The most adult game I've played in recent memory

[assets.nydailynews.com image 485x364]

It started off slow, really slow. But once it picked up, holy shiat.

// This game is just plain farked up.

// FBI guy died, I rescued the boy, killer got away.

// Haven't done a second playthrough yet, but watched a video of the 'worst possible' ending, and damn.

A good example on how maybe we should get the basics like plot done right in video games before we start working on smaller details.


There's a lot of folks who really didn't like that game. Such things are very subjective.
 
2012-06-25 05:44:56 PM

Theaetetus: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: //but since the hatred of them is palpable in some quarters, i can only assume it's either actual misogyny ("what are these sluts doing at *our* event") or white-knighting ("if I object loudly to these women being paid to be models, I can get women who also dislike them to like me!"

If those are the only two options you can think of, you need to go back to the drawing board. How about disgust over pandering to half of the game's audience while alienating the other half?
But it's natural that it didn't occur to you, since it's clear you don't think that other half exists:
///het men like boobs near them any time, it's nature


You're right. They should get some boothbros just to make sure all their bases are covered. If some of my friends are any indication, an attractive man in costume at the Assassin's Creed booth would lead to a significant decrease in people complaining about paid models and a significant uptick in fangirl-like typing.

/Well until it all went full circle
//Sure he's hot, but I bet he doesn't even play video games!
 
2012-06-25 05:49:57 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Theaetetus: I'm not sure how you got that those folks "hate" the models. Rather, it's the game company that draws ire, not the models. Maybe that's why you've missed all the complaints?

Any time some poster refers to the booth babe as "some bimbo" or "some slut" who "doesn't know jack" about the game at the booth, that's hating the model.


Yes, and there's a whole world of complaints out there that never once use the terms "bimbo" or "slut", but rather object to the game company pandering to stereotypical heterosexual male players while alienating the remainder of the market.
You apparently have missed all of those, which is odd considering that you were replying to one.

Theaetetus: Confirmation bias is a terrible thing, huh?

I could be wrong and everyone simply wanted a sterile, rated-G environment that is "nothing but the facts" (which sounds dreadfully boring to me), but that flies in the face of all that I've experienced thus far. White knighting and calling models names have been the order of the day for a long time. I refer you to the above-mentioned, frequently liked by "real gamers", "slut with a controller" comic.


You're the one who mentioned that comic, so I'm not sure how that's evidence that other people do it. Plus, I still have no idea what comic you're referring to.

Though I've watched you posting for a long time, so I know you're never going to even admit that I might be on to something.

Ah, the good old pre-emptive troll. A classic of internet arguments. Unfortunately, it never actually works, but that hasn't stopped people from using it.
 
2012-06-25 05:50:04 PM

ProfessorOhki: You're right. They should get some boothbros just to make sure all their bases are covered. If some of my friends are any indication, an attractive man in costume at the Assassin's Creed booth would lead to a significant decrease in people complaining about paid models and a significant uptick in fangirl-like typing.

/Well until it all went full circle
//Sure he's hot, but I bet he doesn't even play video games!


I'd be okay with this. Equal opportunity cheesecake for all.
 
2012-06-25 05:53:05 PM

ProfessorOhki: You're right. They should get some boothbros just to make sure all their bases are covered. If some of my friends are any indication, an attractive man in costume at the Assassin's Creed booth would lead to a significant decrease in people complaining about paid models and a significant uptick in fangirl-like typing.


The Aliens: Colonial Marines both at PAX prime last year had a few of those. They were guys who had made their own props/costumes and sega was paying them to man the booth. They were an absolute riot and a lot of fun to talk to. Bioware had a female shepard cosplayer for the mass effect series that was also at the booth, and again, an absolute class act.

On the flip side, you had a few both models that were not fans on the series, not fans of the fans, and basically treating it as a paid gig and nothing more. They often felt very distant and treated the fans like crap. the girl who was dressed as Jill Valentine for the Resident Evil 3ds game booth was like that.
 
2012-06-25 05:55:34 PM

Theaetetus: Yes, and there's a whole world of complaints out there that never once use the terms "bimbo" or "slut", but rather object to the game company pandering to stereotypical heterosexual male players while alienating the remainder of the market.
You apparently have missed all of those, which is odd considering that you were replying to one.


A thin veneer laid over misogyny and puritanical sexual repression in order to make it palatable to activists (doubling as white knighting).

Are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games? Absolutely. They're wrong, though. They want to battle the alienation of women in gaming? Concentrate on the folks who are obsessed with declaring who is and is not a "gamer" on the basis of what they play and what their non-gamer interests are. Felicia Day can tell you all about it, since she's been a popular target lately for folks of that mindset.

Theaetetus: You're the one who mentioned that comic, so I'm not sure how that's evidence that other people do it. Plus, I still have no idea what comic you're referring to.


I'm not sure that you're really in a position to be discussing this topic if you aren't aware of the current trendy expressions of "supporting real women gamers" in the community.

Theaetetus: Ah, the good old pre-emptive troll. A classic of internet arguments. Unfortunately, it never actually works, but that hasn't stopped people from using it.


The best thing is that you didn't say I was wrong.
 
2012-06-25 05:57:26 PM

Antimatter: On the flip side, you had a few both models that were not fans on the series, not fans of the fans, and basically treating it as a paid gig and nothing more. They often felt very distant and treated the fans like crap. the girl who was dressed as Jill Valentine for the Resident Evil 3ds game booth was like that.


Though it should be noted, of course, that you can not be a fan of the series and still be a good model representative for your employer. Having a bad attitude is doing a bad job, regardless of whether or not you're well versed in the property you're representing.
 
2012-06-25 05:58:09 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: ProfessorOhki: You're right. They should get some boothbros just to make sure all their bases are covered. If some of my friends are any indication, an attractive man in costume at the Assassin's Creed booth would lead to a significant decrease in people complaining about paid models and a significant uptick in fangirl-like typing.

/Well until it all went full circle
//Sure he's hot, but I bet he doesn't even play video games!

I'd be okay with this. Equal opportunity cheesecake for all.


Besides, you can have lots of fun using models that aren't for cheesecake. I mean, let's take Halo. Which is more entertaining, "photo next to hot Cotana" or "attach this glowing plasma grenade to your back and pose running from Mater Chief." Passive displays are the antithesis of an interactive medium.
 
2012-06-25 05:58:24 PM
Because anytime someone puts a sexual situation in a video game, the repressed population freaks out?
 
2012-06-25 06:03:55 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: They should get some boothbros just to make sure all their bases are covered. . .

I'd be okay with this. Equal opportunity cheesecake for all.


Not me. I don't consider equal opportunity obtained by a race to the bottom to be progress.

I married a gamer, and my wife and I have the same lament -- game quality is getting spotty. My wife is even OK with male-oriented fanservice, which makes for some fun times. Neither of us have problems with the booth babes, per se. We have issues with crappy business models in gaming, one of which is to market shovelware using paid models. The models are really just the symptom. Them being there or not doesn't affect the quality of the product, but the marketing strategy sure is obvious.

Don't read too much into this, like some deep meta-psychological interpretation of modern American chauvanism. Sure, some guys are assholes but I can't speak for them. However, regardless of who hires the booth babes for what purpose or whether they're "real" gamers or how they're treated, it's an open secret that a lot of developers are trying to gloss over some rather shoddy products by hiring booth babes. It's called marketing, and I don't like it whether they're peddling video games or watered-down beer. Making half the models male doesn't fix the damned problem!
 
2012-06-25 06:09:51 PM

ProfessorOhki: Besides, you can have lots of fun using models that aren't for cheesecake. I mean, let's take Halo. Which is more entertaining, "photo next to hot Cotana" or "attach this glowing plasma grenade to your back and pose running from Mater Chief." Passive displays are the antithesis of an interactive medium.


Doesn't need to be either/or. In some cases, a booth might choose to have booth babes (in cosplay or not) to catch some customer's eye and then direct them if they have questions to a more product-versed employee. Or you can have them eyecatch and have them versed in the other interactive activities at the booth which can then lead to more product-based interaction.

Furthermore, marketing folks know what crowd they're going for. Are there women who are super into the GoW series? You bet. Does the market research for that game indicate that the split for the gender population even approaches 50/50 with women on the lower side? I'm betting that's a big no. Same with RE. If you decide that no matter what you do, you're not going to have a significant female audience for a particular game based on your market research, then you're going to focus your money on the folks that your numbers show is going to be your target market, you direct your marketing dollars at that demographic.

And, as much as some men complain about booth babes, gamers are well known for complaining about a company and their games, and then buying them anyway.
 
2012-06-25 06:11:43 PM

BurnShrike: Not once have I ever been playing a video game and thought "gee, I wish there was some kinky sex right here".


The only time I've thought the characters in a (non sex-specific) video game should have sex was in Planescape: Torment, when Annah and The Nameless One fell in love. There was a foreplay scene, but it just cut off abruptly, which didn't feel right.
 
2012-06-25 06:14:35 PM

dragonchild: I married a gamer, and my wife and I have the same lament -- game quality is getting spotty. My wife is even OK with male-oriented fanservice, which makes for some fun times. Neither of us have problems with the booth babes, per se. We have issues with crappy business models in gaming, one of which is to market shovelware using paid models. The models are really just the symptom. Them being there or not doesn't affect the quality of the product, but the marketing strategy sure is obvious.


This has been a perennial problem in gaming since the beginning of the 8-bit console era, though. It's not new. Hell, the market collapsed in the 80s due to it. It's been made even more easy to perpetrate with things like XBLA.

Are you sure it's not that as you've gotten older you've become more particular about your gaming quality standards? I know it's certainly the case with me. I pick by games very judiciously compared with the previous generations, but other gamers do not, and so I can only conclude that I've become much more picky.
 
2012-06-25 06:14:59 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: A thin veneer laid over misogyny and puritanical sexual repression in order to make it palatable to activists (doubling as white knighting).


I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Complaints about pandering that people find offensive and insulting are really just misogyny and sexual repression, somehow combined with white knighting? So, if a woman complains that she feels like she's not invited to the booth when a company uses booth babes, she's really just a person who hates women, is trying to get women to sleep with her, and is sexually repressed to boot?
I think that in your rush to throw out various buzzwords, you forgot that they actually had meanings.

Are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games?

Don't forget "feel that women are such a small portion of their audience that they don't care".

Absolutely. They're wrong, though.

So you have evidence of this? Or is it just an unsupported conclusion?

They want to battle the alienation of women in gaming? Concentrate on the folks who are obsessed with declaring who is and is not a "gamer" on the basis of what they play and what their non-gamer interests are.

... because women only play certain types of games? It sounds like you're parroting the same arguments of the game developers: "women don't play these games, so therefore it doesn't matter if we ignore or insult them when we pander to our audience."

Also, it's blatant concern trolling to do the "women are upset about problem X? Well, they really should focus on problem Y."

Theaetetus: You're the one who mentioned that comic, so I'm not sure how that's evidence that other people do it. Plus, I still have no idea what comic you're referring to.

I'm not sure that you're really in a position to be discussing this topic if you aren't aware of the current trendy expressions of "supporting real women gamers" in the community.


Let me guess... You've forgotten where or when you saw the alleged comic and have no way of linking to it now, so instead you're trying to go on sheer bluster.
I'm not sure you're really in a position to be discussing this topic if you can't name the source of such comic. Clearly, you're out of the loop of popular game culture.

Theaetetus: Ah, the good old pre-emptive troll. A classic of internet arguments. Unfortunately, it never actually works, but that hasn't stopped people from using it.

The best thing is that you didn't say I was wrong.


Oh. You're wrong. And you're not on to anything, as evidenced by your above circular or unsupported arguments. Happy that I've addressed it? I'm sure you are, but you won't admit it, since you're so invested in this topic that you can't admit that you're wrong, even when you're citing vague references like "I saw this comic and it totally said this and I forget where it was or how to find it," or making arguments like "women totally hate women and want to sleep with women and hate sex".
 
2012-06-25 06:17:13 PM
i612.photobucket.com

The sound is what really makes it.
 
2012-06-25 06:17:23 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If you decide that no matter what you do, you're not going to have a significant female audience for a particular game based on your market research, then you're going to focus your money on the folks that your numbers show is going to be your target market, you direct your marketing dollars at that demographic.


As I said:

Theaetetus: "Are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games?"

Don't forget "feel that women are such a small portion of their audience that they don't care".


In one post, you're admitting that video game companies ignore the female demographic, while in another, you're saying that it doesn't happen.
 
2012-06-25 06:24:41 PM
I think some of our hang ups over sexuality, social stigma, taboos, etc. in our interactive media (Is a medium really "non-interactive" if you're actively watching, reacting to visual stimuli?) is instead of passively observing, we're "involved" somehow. Taking for example the new Lara Croft game and the ensuing controversy: As far as the lizard brain is concerned, the bad men attacking Lara are coming after US next. We need to feed our lizard brain a grasshopper and stop freaking the fark out over an issue of character development in a video game.

This is not to say I'm comfortable with the idea of watching the main character in an action/adventure game become a sexual assault victim. If this appeared in my game as non-interactive cutscene it becomes a depressing reminder that there are awful people in the world, capable of vile acts. If the scene is interactive and I botch it somehow (Which wouldn't ever happen because I've never failed an in-game objective.), I've just failed to prevent the rape and probable slaying of a well known, likable character who, oh by the way, turns out to be a 16 year old Lara Croft. Oooooooooh PLOT TWIST!! I don't find either possibility particularly entertaining, but neither am I going to take part in a product boycott over this.

Also the headline is a little misleading. The article had to do with the double standard of mature content in video games versus that of non-interactive media. Sex isn't the only mature subject matter our uptight, close-minded, prudish society forbids in our games but tolerates in other media.
 
2012-06-25 06:27:39 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: And, as much as some men complain about booth babes, gamers are well known for complaining about a company and their games, and then buying them anyway.


True. I figure it irks people, but isn't a total deal breaker.

i50.tinypic.com
But, then again, every once in a great while, the invisible hand presents a monolithic middle finger :)
 
2012-06-25 06:28:49 PM

Theaetetus: I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Complaints about pandering that people find offensive and insulting are really just misogyny and sexual repression, somehow combined with white knighting? So, if a woman complains that she feels like she's not invited to the booth when a company uses booth babes, she's really just a person who hates women, is trying to get women to sleep with her, and is sexually repressed to boot?
I think that in your rush to throw out various buzzwords, you forgot that they actually had meanings.


If a woman doesn't feel "invited" to a booth because there are booth babes there, the woman does indeed have issues. The only way they're "not invited" is if there's a big sign saying "men only" or gets shooed out.

This argument is always interesting, though, because 1) it concludes that women are offended or alienated by consistent things based on their gender and 2) that there's some magical, non-sterilized, non-vanilla way to ensure that everyone is always included in everything. Sure, I suppose you could do that, but then E3 would look like the Industrial Shinglemaker of America Museum.

Theaetetus: Don't forget "feel that women are such a small portion of their audience that they don't care".


For individual titles, this may very well be true.

Theaetetus: So you have evidence of this? Or is it just an unsupported conclusion?


To be right, companies would have to not want more money. Companies want more money.

Theaetetus: ... because women only play certain types of games? It sounds like you're parroting the same arguments of the game developers: "women don't play these games, so therefore it doesn't matter if we ignore or insult them when we pander to our audience."


You're so turned around you don't even know that you're agreeing with me, here. The point being that being a gamer is self-assigned, self-claimed and there's a whole lot of people trying to say that you're only a gamer (and, in particular, a woman gamer) if you conform to some standard of behavior. If you're unaware of this, you need to spend some more time outside your preferred echo chamber.

Theaetetus: Also, it's blatant concern trolling to do the "women are upset about problem X? Well, they really should focus on problem Y."


Interestingly, it's mostly men who are making these statements. How do I know? The predominance of posts in that vein that start with "as a male gamer".

Theaetetus: Let me guess... You've forgotten where or when you saw the alleged comic and have no way of linking to it now, so instead you're trying to go on sheer bluster.
I'm not sure you're really in a position to be discussing this topic if you can't name the source of such comic. Clearly, you're out of the loop of popular game culture.


http://weknowmemes.com/2012/03/this-is-not-a-gamer-girl/ It's been everywhere for months. I've seen it at least 3 times from different people on my Facebook homepage.

You're really bad at this.

Theaetetus: Oh. You're wrong. And you're not on to anything, as evidenced by your above circular or unsupported arguments. Happy that I've addressed it? I'm sure you are, but you won't admit it, since you're so invested in this topic that you can't admit that you're wrong, even when you're citing vague references like "I saw this comic and it totally said this and I forget where it was or how to find it," or making arguments like "women totally hate women and want to sleep with women and hate sex".


Wow. You've really got some deep seated issues. I mean, I suspected it before, but wow.
 
2012-06-25 06:29:53 PM

Theaetetus: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If you decide that no matter what you do, you're not going to have a significant female audience for a particular game based on your market research, then you're going to focus your money on the folks that your numbers show is going to be your target market, you direct your marketing dollars at that demographic.

As I said:
Theaetetus: "Are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games?"

Don't forget "feel that women are such a small portion of their audience that they don't care".

In one post, you're admitting that video game companies ignore the female demographic, while in another, you're saying that it doesn't happen.


For individual titles. If you think that the "gaming industry" is a marketing monolith, you really should do some more research into the matter. It's a truly simplistic (and truly wrong) idea.
 
2012-06-25 06:32:07 PM

ProfessorOhki: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: And, as much as some men complain about booth babes, gamers are well known for complaining about a company and their games, and then buying them anyway.

True. I figure it irks people, but isn't a total deal breaker.

[i50.tinypic.com image 585x323]
But, then again, every once in a great while, the invisible hand presents a monolithic middle finger :)


I was reading about that, maybe it was on Ars? Apparently TOR was expected by a whole ton of investors to be on par with WoW (and anyone who as followed the modern history of MMOs should have known better, I suppose). That's not just even a middle finger, though, that's a bona fide wedgie.
 
2012-06-25 06:41:12 PM

Jame5G: This is not to say I'm comfortable with the idea of watching the main character in an action/adventure game become a sexual assault victim. If this appeared in my game as non-interactive cutscene it becomes a depressing reminder that there are awful people in the world, capable of vile acts. If the scene is interactive and I botch it somehow (Which wouldn't ever happen because I've never failed an in-game objective.), I've just failed to prevent the rape and probable slaying of a well known, likable character who, oh by the way, turns out to be a 16 year old Lara Croft. Oooooooooh PLOT TWIST!! I don't find either possibility particularly entertaining, but neither am I going to take part in a product boycott over this.


Seems like most the rage at that one comes from it being a lazy plot device; ie: rape being the go-to for 'severe trauma in any female character's past' and the way the way Ron Rosenberg presented the entire thing. I mean, take the quote about wanting to protect her and rooting for her in a way you wouldn't root for a male character. It was pretty much a slap in the face to anyone who actually did identify with the character, which is apparently a far larger group than he expected. It's a risk you run whenever you do an origin story that strips a badass character of their badassness and it's doubly dangerous when it comes off as that being done specifically because she's a woman; see: Other M.

Gamers in general really don't seem to like having their long-established characters messed with.
 
2012-06-25 06:47:53 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If a woman doesn't feel "invited" to a booth because there are booth babes there, the woman does indeed have issues. The only way they're "not invited" is if there's a big sign saying "men only" or gets shooed out.


So you've never noticed that an environment may be made welcoming to certain groups rather than others? Have you ever been out in society, or are the rest of us aliens to you?

This argument is always interesting, though, because 1) it concludes that women are offended or alienated by consistent things based on their gender and 2) that there's some magical, non-sterilized, non-vanilla way to ensure that everyone is always included in everything.

I think you need to show your work there, since that conclusion doesn't flow from what I said. I'd start with trying to explain how you get from "if a woman complains" to "all women are offended or alienated by consistent things based on their gender." Do you believe that women are all a uniform block with no individual characteristics? That may make some of your other statements more understandable.

Sure, I suppose you could do that, but then E3 would look like the Industrial Shinglemaker of America Museum.

I realize this may be a tough thing for you to understand, but most attendees are at E3 because they like video games, want to see video games, want to try video games, and/or want to discuss video games. It's possible to do a video game connection that focuses on, say, video games, rather than bikinis. And, remarkably, the result is a video game convention, rather than a shinglemaking convention.


Theaetetus: Don't forget "feel that women are such a small portion of their audience that they don't care".

For individual titles, this may very well be true.


Yes, which is why, contrary to your earlier assertion, many game companies ignore women.
The mistake you're making is believing there's no causal relationship there.

To be right, companies would have to not want more money. Companies want more money.

To be wrong, companies may well want more money, but be wrong about how to get it. Perhaps, like yourself, they think women are a uniform faceless block and that a single thing will appeal to them.

www.interbutt.org

You're so turned around you don't even know that you're agreeing with me, here.

Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that you're concern trolling by ignoring one stated problem and saying people should focus on another, unrelated one.

Theaetetus: Also, it's blatant concern trolling to do the "women are upset about problem X? Well, they really should focus on problem Y."

Interestingly, it's mostly men who are making these statements. How do I know? The predominance of posts in that vein that start with "as a male gamer".


Which statements? "As a male gamer, women are upset about problem X?" "As a male gamer, it's blatant concern trolling?" "As a male gamer, they should focus on problem Y?"
Mind you, none of these were said, so nice red herring there.

http://weknowmemes.com/2012/03/this-is-not-a-gamer-girl/ It's been everywhere for months. I've seen it at least 3 times from different people on my Facebook homepage.

That says more about your friends than anything else. I fail to see how an image that appears on your Facebook page has been "everywhere for months". I mean, really - narcissist much?
It does show up on FunnyJunk, but that's not really an endorsement of much except douchebaggery.
 
2012-06-25 06:50:03 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If you think that the "gaming industry" is a marketing monolith, you really should do some more research into the matter. It's a truly simplistic (and truly wrong) idea.


Agreed. Only an idiot would think of them as a monolith and say something stupid like "are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games? Absolutely. They're wrong, though."
 
2012-06-25 06:53:35 PM

Theaetetus: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If you think that the "gaming industry" is a marketing monolith, you really should do some more research into the matter. It's a truly simplistic (and truly wrong) idea.

Agreed. Only an idiot would think of them as a monolith and say something stupid like "are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games? Absolutely. They're wrong, though."


You're really going to assert that there's game studios that don't know there are women gamers? Really? That's what you're going with?
 
2012-06-25 06:56:52 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Theaetetus: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If you think that the "gaming industry" is a marketing monolith, you really should do some more research into the matter. It's a truly simplistic (and truly wrong) idea.

Agreed. Only an idiot would think of them as a monolith and say something stupid like "are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games? Absolutely. They're wrong, though."

You're really going to assert that there's game studios that don't know there are women gamers? Really? That's what you're going with?


[eyeroll]
That was what you typed. If you remember, I responded by saying that there were game studios that ignored women gamers. You agreed to that, in fact. Please try to keep your argument consistent.
 
2012-06-25 06:57:55 PM
TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: There's a lot of folks who really didn't like that game. Such things are very subjective.

It's not for everyone, it's a very specific genre. If you were a fan of this genre of game, you would probably like it.

I'm sure PGR and its iterations are good games, but I just don't go for racing simulators, so while I recognize them as good games within their respective genre, I personally don't like them.

Likewise, you won't see me touching any sort of ball based sports game (no football, no basketball, no baseball, no soccer, no tennis etc), I'm an escapist gamer, and games based on real life games are just too mundane for me to appreciate.

// also, it's a farked up game, and there are some people who would quit the first time a farked up scene occurred (let's put it this way, you have to cut off one of your own fingers at some point in the game, and let's just say that the voice actor is very good).
 
2012-06-25 07:11:56 PM
TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: There's a lot of folks who really didn't like that game. Such things are very subjective.

Heavy rain in a nutshell (A comedian did a skit on it).

http://farkedupgames.org/2012/02/12/heavy-rain-is-comically-depressin g /

// need to change fark back to the actual word due to the filter.
 
2012-06-25 07:15:12 PM

Theaetetus: So you've never noticed that an environment may be made welcoming to certain groups rather than others? Have you ever been out in society, or are the rest of us aliens to you?


In that situation, the assertion that women don't feel welcome in a booth that has booth babes is about as reasonable as saying that guys who go into a booth with booth beefcake are justified in feeling uninvited. It's not an issue with the booth presentation in either case. Now, if the models (male or female) are assertively unwelcoming, that's another story, but in that case, they're simply not doing their jobs very well.

Theaetetus: I think you need to show your work there, since that conclusion doesn't flow from what I said. I'd start with trying to explain how you get from "if a woman complains" to "all women are offended or alienated by consistent things based on their gender." Do you believe that women are all a uniform block with no individual characteristics? That may make some of your other statements more understandable.


Ah, but see here you're missing the point again. "If a woman complains" implies that we should take action on the behalf of all women based on the opinions of a singular individual. If you do not mean that, perhaps you should restate your meaning more clearly.

Theaetetus: I realize this may be a tough thing for you to understand, but most attendees are at E3 because they like video games, want to see video games, want to try video games, and/or want to discuss video games. It's possible to do a video game connection that focuses on, say, video games, rather than bikinis. And, remarkably, the result is a video game convention, rather than a shinglemaking convention.


If you think that E3 is about bikinis, then you probably need to control your own eyes and impulses a little better. Especially if the simple presence of them prevents you from noticing the video game content. Given that there was extensive gaming-related media coverage of E3, this does not seem to be a problem for most people.

Theaetetus: Yes, which is why, contrary to your earlier assertion, many game companies ignore women.
The mistake you're making is believing there's no causal relationship there.


The mistake you're making is asserting that "for individual titles" means "many game companies ignore women."

What you're basically saying is that all companies are beholden to some standard whereby they should market specifically to women with their games, and that the level is too low by your measure. My position is that they are in the market to make money, and where they believe that marketing to women gamers *specifically* will be profitable, they will do so.

Out of curiosity, how exactly does one market to women gamers in your mind? Be careful, most of those that pop into your head right now are stereotypes you probably have been conditioned to deny.

Theaetetus: To be wrong, companies may well want more money, but be wrong about how to get it. Perhaps, like yourself, they think women are a uniform faceless block and that a single thing will appeal to them.

[www.interbutt.org image 500x379]


So, in your mind, the gaming companies in question are either nefarious or naive and everyone in their marketing departments is wrong most of the time?

Theaetetus: Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that you're concern trolling by ignoring one stated problem and saying people should focus on another, unrelated one.


I don't agree with you on the problem. Booth babes are not the cause of any problem in the gaming industry. Period. Some may argue, as another poster did, that they are a symptom of a different problem, and that may be true, but eliminating them does nothing but appease a very small number of gamers (loud that they may be at present), both male and female, that dislike them.

Theaetetus: Which statements? "As a male gamer, women are upset about problem X?" "As a male gamer, it's blatant concern trolling?" "As a male gamer, they should focus on problem Y?"
Mind you, none of these were said, so nice red herring there.


All of the above and more. Sure, you're going to come back with "well, if women post that they are women gamers, they're going to get jumped on!" and sure that may be true, but since "male" is assumed most of the time on the internet in lieu of other proof, it's trivial to make a comment and have it be assumed to be male. As such, the proper assumption is that if someone is chiming in as "as a male x", they are attempting to use that in some sort of public way to garner favor. Similar to how it works on reddit in the women-centric subreddits. "Look at how my opinion stands me out from the crowd, isn't it favorably significant?"

Theaetetus: That says more about your friends than anything else. I fail to see how an image that appears on your Facebook page has been "everywhere for months". I mean, really - narcissist much?
It does show up on FunnyJunk, but that's not really an endorsement of much except douchebaggery.


Yeah, you're right. It totally shows up in meme collections because I'm the only one who has ever seen it.

Do a reverse image search, based on this link: http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/this-is-not-a-gamerg irl.jpg

It's all over tumblr, too.

Here's the main problem with your mindset, Theaetetus. You're so invested in being an "ally" that you've forgotten how to think for yourself. You know all the catch phrases, you know how to call things "concern trolling" and use variations on "derailment" in order to, amusingly, derail any line of conversation that runs counter to the standard opinion in your echo chamber. You toe the line very well, and I'm sure you get great satisfaction from it, but in the end, all you're doing is repeating memes like some 4channer. Sure, you use more words, and the statements are acceptable to those who are heavily involved with Internet-based social justice issues, but you've lost the ability to critically assess the issues. And for that, I feel sad, because you seem like a smart person, just led astray into activist orthodoxy.

But, you've never used the phrase "It's not my job to educate you," that I've ever seen, so that's a pretty good start.
 
2012-06-25 07:18:53 PM

Theaetetus: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Theaetetus: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: If you think that the "gaming industry" is a marketing monolith, you really should do some more research into the matter. It's a truly simplistic (and truly wrong) idea.

Agreed. Only an idiot would think of them as a monolith and say something stupid like "are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games? Absolutely. They're wrong, though."

You're really going to assert that there's game studios that don't know there are women gamers? Really? That's what you're going with?

[eyeroll]
That was what you typed. If you remember, I responded by saying that there were game studios that ignored women gamers. You agreed to that, in fact. Please try to keep your argument consistent.


I think you don't quite understand the text. Let's try this again.

"are there folks who TRULY TRULY believe that booth babes are the result of companies that are unaware that women play video games?"

"Yes, there absolutely are folks who believe this."

"Those folks who believe that are wrong."

There are no game publishers in existence who are unaware of women gamers. To think otherwise is to entertain a fantasy.

There will be (and are) titles that are not marketed with women in mind. Either because they chose to do that, or the market research for a concept showed that the women gamer consumer base is too low to be a profitable concern for that particular title.
 
2012-06-25 07:23:08 PM

lordargent: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: There's a lot of folks who really didn't like that game. Such things are very subjective.

It's not for everyone, it's a very specific genre. If you were a fan of this genre of game, you would probably like it.

I'm sure PGR and its iterations are good games, but I just don't go for racing simulators, so while I recognize them as good games within their respective genre, I personally don't like them.

Likewise, you won't see me touching any sort of ball based sports game (no football, no basketball, no baseball, no soccer, no tennis etc), I'm an escapist gamer, and games based on real life games are just too mundane for me to appreciate.

// also, it's a farked up game, and there are some people who would quit the first time a farked up scene occurred (let's put it this way, you have to cut off one of your own fingers at some point in the game, and let's just say that the voice actor is very good).


Have you played Deadly Premonition?
 
2012-06-25 07:32:07 PM
And it's the end of the work day, and end of caring about the Interbutts. Tah tah peeps.
 
2012-06-25 07:34:38 PM
Even gamers think it would be a bit creepy for expecting a handy for rescuing Zelda.
 
2012-06-25 07:34:40 PM
TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Have you played Deadly Premonition?

Nahh, I'm so far behind on my gaming it's ridiculous.

// but my TV watching season is over (game of thrones and fringe are done) so I'll be catching up in a bit.

// Finished prototype 2, working on gears 2 right now, then back to Skyrim.
 
2012-06-25 07:48:11 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: In that situation, the assertion that women don't feel welcome in a booth that has booth babes is about as reasonable as saying that guys who go into a booth with booth beefcake are justified in feeling uninvited. It's not an issue with the booth presentation in either case.


"If you feel uninvited, then it's your problem." I realize that does sum up most of your arguments. I just think it's laughably ignorant.

Ah, but see here you're missing the point again. "If a woman complains" implies that we should take action on the behalf of all women based on the opinions of a singular individual. If you do not mean that, perhaps you should restate your meaning more clearly.

No, "if a woman complains" was to create a hypothetical woman that would fall into the categories you had set. Let's return to the tape:
Complaints about pandering that people find offensive and insulting are really just misogyny and sexual repression, somehow combined with white knighting? So, if a woman complains that she feels like she's not invited to the booth when a company uses booth babes, she's really just a person who hates women, is trying to get women to sleep with her, and is sexually repressed to boot?
See, you had said that anyone complaining was either a white knight or a misogynist. So, if a woman complains, she's a white knight or a misogynist?
I was merely pointing out the absurdity of your dichotomy.
Somehow you turned that into a statement that women, as a uniform block, want a single thing.

How something as simple as those two sentences, one of which was quoting you, can go over your head is beyond me.

Theaetetus: I realize this may be a tough thing for you to understand, but most attendees are at E3 because they like video games, want to see video games, want to try video games, and/or want to discuss video games. It's possible to do a video game connection that focuses on, say, video games, rather than bikinis. And, remarkably, the result is a video game convention, rather than a shinglemaking convention.

If you think that E3 is about bikinis, then you probably need to control your own eyes and impulses a little better.


Au contraire, mon frere. You said that if we remove the bikini-clad girls, we would end up with a shinglemaking convention. You apparently ignore the very existence of the games or the game fans. I pointed out that - as you agree - most people recognize that E3 is about video games, and that therefore removing the booth babes would not do away with the content as you argued.

The mistake you're making is asserting that "for individual titles" means "many game companies ignore women."

The mistake you're making is that you believe every game company published a plurality of titles. Some only publish an "individual title". So if they ignore women for that title, then they ignore women, no?

What you're basically saying is that all companies are beholden to some standard whereby they should market specifically to women with their games, and that the level is too low by your measure.

Actually, you've got it backwards. I'm saying they should market to all gamers, regardless of gender, and that hiring booth babes is a waste because it misses a huge demographic. I'm not sure why you think companies should market exclusively to a demographic. It's like you think companies don't want to earn money or something.

Out of curiosity, how exactly does one market to women gamers in your mind? Be careful, most of those that pop into your head right now are stereotypes you probably have been conditioned to deny.

Really? Because "survey" doesn't seem like a stereotype. Can you please explain what trait a "survey" would seem to characterize?

So, in your mind, the gaming companies in question are either nefarious or naive and everyone in their marketing departments is wrong most of the time?

i948.photobucket.com
Nah, these guys totally know what broads like. So much so that they don't need to ask them or listen to them, and if said broads don't like their campaign, why, it's those women that have the problem.

Booth babes are not the cause of any problem in the gaming industry. Period... eliminating them does nothing but appease a very small number of gamers (loud that they may be at present), both male and female, that dislike them.

So they do cause a problem, then.
Does eliminating them save money? Yes.
Does eliminating them cost sales? No.
Does eliminating them result in a video game convention being nothing more than a shinglemaking convention? No.
So, why keep them? Ignorance, naivety, bigotry, etc. It's clearly not justified by any reasonable marketing decision.

Theaetetus: Which statements? "As a male gamer, women are upset about problem X?" "As a male gamer, it's blatant concern trolling?" "As a male gamer, they should focus on problem Y?"
Mind you, none of these were said, so nice red herring there.

All of the above and more. Sure, you're going to come back with "well, if women post that they are women gamers..."


Actually, I was going to come back with "none of those were said, so nice red herring there."
Lots of things haven't been said that we could discuss. But why bother?

Yeah, you're right. It totally shows up in meme collections because I'm the only one who has ever seen it.

Do a reverse image search, based on this link: http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/this-is-not-a-gamerg irl.jpg

It's all over tumblr, too.


255 hits out of more than a hundred billion pages. Wow. It's like the next Lolcat. How could I possibly have missed something that is easily more widespread than Justin Beiber and Katy Perry combined?

Here's the main problem with your mindset, Theaetetus.

Is it my mastery of logic and facts and refusal to let someone constantly backpedal and shift goalposts?
I agree... It doesn't make me the most popular sort in the circles of people who would post on your Facebook page.
 
2012-06-25 08:07:24 PM

Antimatter: On the flip side, you had a few both models that were not fans on the series, not fans of the fans, and basically treating it as a paid gig and nothing more. They often felt very distant and treated the fans like crap. the girl who was dressed as Jill Valentine for the Resident Evil 3ds game booth was like that.


And that's why they're models, not actors, and will eventually become strippers.

/if you cant be genuine at least act.
 
2012-06-25 08:16:45 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Are you sure it's not that as you've gotten older you've become more particular about your gaming quality standards?


I was always picky. I was more eager to try different games back when I had more free time, but I always fell back to the same favorite games I played over and over. In my wife's case, her preference is for JRPGs and there is a VERY tangible drop in overall quality -- and I doubt anyone in the industry would deny it. She works full time and does her fair share of the chores, yet with her limited time she still manages to literally run out of games to play (having re-played her favorites and going many months between even half-decent releases).

I'm not so blinded by nostalgia to think there was ever a time where good games outnumbered bad ones, but before the suits took over if a studio threw serious money at a title you can at least bet the game would be decent. Now the more money that's invested in a title, the more cautious I get.
 
2012-06-25 08:24:16 PM

Fano: Even gamers think it would be a bit creepy for expecting a handy for rescuing Zelda.


That is almost literally the least she could do. Is there anyone in the history of video games with a worse case of blueballs than Link? At least Mario has the prospect of anonymous, DADT Toad sex when the dark, lonely night is at its coldest.
 
2012-06-25 08:41:00 PM

Precision Boobery: Fano: Even gamers think it would be a bit creepy for expecting a handy for rescuing Zelda.

That is almost literally the least she could do. Is there anyone in the history of video games with a worse case of blueballs than Link? At least Mario has the prospect of anonymous, DADT Toad sex when the dark, lonely night is at its coldest.


In Zelda II you know he railed her sleeping body every chance he got
 
2012-06-25 08:44:34 PM

Theaetetus: Really? Because "survey" doesn't seem like a stereotype. Can you please explain what trait a "survey" would seem to characterize?


People who have so few interesting things to do with their lives, they take surveys. They're society's exact reciprocal of "we're going to change the world with our signatures" clipboard guy.
 
2012-06-25 08:48:42 PM

Theaetetus: i948.photobucket.com
Nah, these guys totally know what broads like. So much so that they don't need to ask them or listen to them, and if said broads don't like their campaign, why, it's those women that have the problem.


Who are these guys? I did a reverse image search but only got 127 hits out of more than a hundred billion pages, so they've got to be pretty obscure...
 
2012-06-25 08:48:59 PM
To tell you the true I don't even know why I try anymore.
 
2012-06-25 10:46:42 PM
Yep, because adult males play video games to get away from the womenfolk. if i want to have sex, ill go get the woman out of the kitchen.
 
2012-06-25 10:51:08 PM

fluffy2097: Antimatter: On the flip side, you had a few both models that were not fans on the series, not fans of the fans, and basically treating it as a paid gig and nothing more. They often felt very distant and treated the fans like crap. the girl who was dressed as Jill Valentine for the Resident Evil 3ds game booth was like that.

And that's why they're models, not actors, and will eventually become strippers.

/if you cant be genuine at least act.


Bingo. If you can't maintain a smile and be cheerful, even if your definitely not happy to be there, your going to end up on a pole someday, or out of work.

I mean hell, their game nerds. Smile a little and laugh, and you'll have them eating out of your hand in no time. Might get a few dinner requests from the more confident ones, but just politely decline and move on. If a really handsome or well off one asks, hey, go for it.
 
2012-06-25 11:33:44 PM

Antimatter: Bingo. If you can't maintain a smile and be cheerful, even if your definitely not happy to be there, your going to end up on a pole someday, or out of work.

I mean hell, their game nerds. Smile a little and laugh, and you'll have them eating out of your hand in no time. Might get a few dinner requests from the more confident ones, but just politely decline and move on. If a really handsome or well off one asks, hey, go for it.


Or take 5 seconds to Wikipedia the character you've been hired to play. Know a catch phrase or two, know a few memes and references. Your character might even be surly and if you play it right, you could legitimately tell off obnoxious nerds and get away with it because it's in character.

Nope. They stand around and look pretty and bored. It's sad to see them not using their head. At least they are pretty, and there is an endless supply of them.
 
2012-06-26 12:26:27 AM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: There's a lot of folks who really didn't like that game. Such things are very subjective


I enjoyed a lot of that game, just not the fact that it had plot holes you could drive the Death Star through.
 
2012-06-26 12:32:39 AM

Expolaris:
Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines did it pretty well too. The only sex is the opening scene, and it's the whole reason for your transformation.

The Malkavian crazy lady and the Toreador sex kitten insinuated quite a bit too.

also FTM Bloodlines for the win.

Being a beautiful monster with the Toreador was 1 step below sparkly vampire, even when it came down to your adoring wide eyed girl who follows you around.

Who was pretty much there to lure men into your apartment for you to feed off of, or for you to fark as you saw fit (Toreador for the win). You even got the best armor in the game if you treated her right.

Provided you were not all creepy vampire "YOU ARE A GHOUL NOW, DEAL WIT ...


Had a Bloodlines mod that allowed you to play as a Tzimisce (no fleshcrafting though; it was a mix of Toreador and Gangrel spells), who I felt were the most original and horrifying of all the bloodsuckers from the Masquerade. Always thought it would've been more twisted if you could sculpt her to a beauty -- or disfigured maniacal servant -- or like Andrei in Hollywood did, his furniture.
 
2012-06-26 03:16:52 AM
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-06-26 04:21:21 AM
I like seeing a lot of sexual innuendos in my video games... like seeing Lara Croft's Melons while running the game on the highest settings. Or maybe seeing those Dead or Alive Girls... like for example looking at Lei Fang's long legs delivering a high kick to some dude's face in those sexy heels. Now that's worthy of my attention.

If I could go back in time all over again, I would have dropped the whole Tomb Raider series in favor of the Zelda or the Final Fantasy series. Cause let's face it, Tomb Raider sucks. The coont's been all over world a good three times over. And don't get me started on every single level with an Egyptian theme on it. I have yet to see razor sharp blades that actually turn this chick into burger or turn her into individual meaty bits just for the lawls.

But if you are going to have a game where I have to constantly masturbate the spacebar to reach climax or prevent the evildoer from fondling my character, what kind of stupid shiat is that? Video games never really did the sex thing very well anyways. And that's because 3D polygon porn looks hopelessly retarded.
 
2012-06-26 07:43:41 AM

Clickscope: Video games never really did the sex thing very well anyways.


It's actually quite hard to do. If you think about it a video game is always going to be an objective based experience; even if those objectives are player set (i.e. sandbox games) it's still an objective.

Romance/sexual encounters in video games simply appear on a players given "to do" list of objectives and beyond the RP value, XP gained or gear it gives the player largely doesn't care one iota about it.
 
2012-06-26 09:37:49 AM

Vaneshi: Romance/sexual encounters in video games simply appear on a players given "to do" list of objectives and beyond the RP value, XP gained or gear it gives the player largely doesn't care one iota about it.


That's the majority of the market, I'm sure, and those brats can play Medal of Dudebro for all eternity. I like games with some depth, which sometimes means the "game" is more an interactive experience than a set of goals. There's enough room in this market for the both of us.
 
2012-06-26 03:52:52 PM

ProfessorOhki: Who are these guys? I did a reverse image search but only got 127 hits out of more than a hundred billion pages, so they've got to be pretty obscure...


The clue is actually in the image name - Mad Men. It's a tv show about an advertising agency in the 1960s.

Some 'Splainin' To Do: When it comes to buying titles for home there aren't nearly as many obstacles to selling an M title,


Now, I'm not fully up on the rating system, but if I remember right, M isn't the highest rating. M is equivalent to R, then there's AO which is equivalent to NC-17/X, which is the 'kiss of death' for standard movies.

It doesn't really matter what the proportion is - 10% of the potential market being underage is still 10% of your target group being gone if you go 'adult only'. Plus, if you go to AO then stores like Gamestop and Walmart won't carry it, which limits your target audience to those who visit adult stores(whether in person or online). In addition, most people don't know about hongfire and co.
 
2012-06-28 03:39:47 AM

Firethorn: ProfessorOhki: Who are these guys? I did a reverse image search but only got 127 hits out of more than a hundred billion pages, so they've got to be pretty obscure...

The clue is actually in the image name - Mad Men. It's a tv show about an advertising agency in the 1960s.


I believe the sarcasm may have escaped you, see:

Theaetetus: 255 hits out of more than a hundred billion pages. Wow. It's like the next Lolcat. How could I possibly have missed something that is easily more widespread than Justin Beiber and Katy Perry combined?


/Vaguely familiar with the Christina-Hendricks-walks-towards-the-camera-and-then-away-from-the-ca mera-show.
 
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