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(My Fox NY)   NHL players show that they are the biggest bunch of haters in the professional sports world   (myfoxny.com) divider line 390
    More: Dumbass, cramps, LeBron James, NHL, Twitter, professional sports, slap shot, Anaheim Ducks, AHL  
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5691 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Jun 2012 at 10:21 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-25 01:33:26 PM  

SultanofSchwing: You've obviously never played hockey before.


The point is that they don't play for 60 minutes/game. They play 15-18 minutes/game (wings/centers) and 25ish minutes/game (defensemen).

So saying "play 60 minutes/game" isn't an accurate representation of what said athletes are doing. If you're going to misrepresent everything, just don't bother even pretending like your opinion is worth voicing.
 
2012-06-25 01:36:31 PM  

MugzyBrown: NutznGum:
[img814.imageshack.us image 315x275]

1) Chara isn't really a big hitter, he's just big.
2) Chara's athletic abilities are more on par with Gheorghe Muresan than Lebron James.


1) Pacioretty, Graboviski, throwing 6'2, 223lb Bryan McCabe around like a ragdoll
2) Norris trophy winner, Messier trophy winner, Stanley Cup winner, hardest slapshot in the world. Gheorghe Muresan? I had to google him.
 
2012-06-25 01:39:08 PM  

MugzyBrown: boozehat: Pacioretty would disagree....

And so would Grabovski

Chara uses leverage for his hits, not speed (since he can't really generate any) thus he's not a 'big hitter'.

Chara as an athlete vs lebron is a total joke. Probably the only athletic thing Chara could do better than lebron is ice skate and take a slap shot.

SultanofSchwing: At 6'8" he would be upwards of 7' with skates on, also wearing another 30lbs of gear. It would make him quite unstable. Having a low center of gravity, combined with lower body strength is much more advantageous in terms of body checking than just height and mass. Also pretty certain Dion Phaneuf skates much better than Lebron.

"Taking a charge" is a basketball term. They don't play basketball on skates.

My point is Dion Phaneuf standing in the lane would get bulldozed by Lebron.. if he had the nerve to stand there.


Would Lebron stand in the way of this?
 
2012-06-25 01:39:22 PM  

NutznGum: 1) Pacioretty, Graboviski, throwing 6'2, 223lb Bryan McCabe around like a ragdoll


Your not understanding physics does not make it not exist.

2) Gheorghe Muresan? I had to google him.

Your knowledge being limited to hockey does not improve your argument.
 
2012-06-25 01:41:40 PM  

MugzyBrown: Chara as an athlete vs lebron is a total joke. Probably the only athletic thing Chara could do better than lebron is ice skate and take a slap shot.


I don't know about that... Chara could probably beat him in a bicycle race, climbing a mountain, and, based on his work-out regime, I'm guessing he could probably beat Lebron at just about everything except basketball.

Chara seems like a far more well rounded athlete than LeBron, at any rate.
 
2012-06-25 01:42:09 PM  
Would Lebron stand in the way of this?

Sauer didn't stand in the way of that.. he was hit with his head down. Dion Phaneuf being a cheap shot artist doesn't make him tough.

Standing in the way of a charge is a conscious decision to not move and absorb the full contact without protecting yourself.
 
2012-06-25 01:43:47 PM  

IAmRight: SultanofSchwing: You've obviously never played hockey before.

The point is that they don't play for 60 minutes/game. They play 15-18 minutes/game (wings/centers) and 25ish minutes/game (defensemen).

So saying "play 60 minutes/game" isn't an accurate representation of what said athletes are doing. If you're going to misrepresent everything, just don't bother even pretending like your opinion is worth voicing.


Where did I misrepresent? Clearly you knew what they were referring to. Just arguing semantics.

IAmRight: SultanofSchwing: Also pretty certain Dion Phaneuf skates much better than Lebron.

Because skating on a rink is a much more likely place that the two would run into one another, not the 99% of time people are in public where they're wearing shoes and on normal ground.

Both sets of athletes would get clowned on the others' turf. And all these tough hitters would start looking pretty soft trying to take charges or if they got hit while trying to make a layup.


The difference is in Basketball, you usually get a free throw for your efforts. In hockey you get a band-aid and a "suck it up champ."
 
2012-06-25 01:44:22 PM  

MugzyBrown: NutznGum: 1) Pacioretty, Graboviski, throwing 6'2, 223lb Bryan McCabe around like a ragdoll

Your not understanding physics does not make it not exist.

2) Gheorghe Muresan? I had to google him.

Your knowledge being limited to hockey does not improve your argument.


Speaking of limited knowledge....I'm just responding to you saying Chara is 'not a big hitter' and that his talent is on the same level as Muresan, both points are completely wrong.
 
2012-06-25 01:44:28 PM  

IAmRight: SultanofSchwing: You've obviously never played hockey before.

The point is that they don't play for 60 minutes/game. They play 15-18 minutes/game (wings/centers) and 25ish minutes/game (defensemen).

So saying "play 60 minutes/game" isn't an accurate representation of what said athletes are doing. If you're going to misrepresent everything, just don't bother even pretending like your opinion is worth voicing.


Don't forget, most of the time basketball players are trotting back and forth across the court. Not really running. Plus a rink is over 2x the length and almost 2x the width of a basketball court.
 
2012-06-25 01:44:32 PM  
Old stories, headlines clearly showing subby didn't read the articles...it's been a pretty crappy couple days here on the tab, lol.
 
2012-06-25 01:45:46 PM  

MugzyBrown: absorb the full contact without protecting yourself.


Well, not really, you protect your nuts and you semi-flop because you don't really want to take the full contact.
 
2012-06-25 01:46:21 PM  

MugzyBrown: Would Lebron stand in the way of this?

Sauer didn't stand in the way of that.. he was hit with his head down. Dion Phaneuf being a cheap shot artist doesn't make him tough.

Standing in the way of a charge is a conscious decision to not move and absorb the full contact without protecting yourself.



You're right, being blindsided isn't a fair example:

Here you go.
 
2012-06-25 01:47:32 PM  

zippolight2002: Plus a rink is over 2x the length and almost 2x the width of a basketball court.


Gliding across ice is also a far more efficient means of locomotion than running, so the distance isn't that big a deal.
 
2012-06-25 01:48:40 PM  

SultanofSchwing: You're right, being blindsided isn't a fair example:


Hey, remember how hard it is to skate? It's pretty easy to knock someone on skates down.
 
2012-06-25 01:49:06 PM  

IAmRight: zippolight2002: Plus a rink is over 2x the length and almost 2x the width of a basketball court.

Gliding across ice is also a far more efficient means of locomotion than running, so the distance isn't that big a deal.


Gliding? Really? Another example why it's pretty obvious you've never played hockey before.
 
2012-06-25 01:49:38 PM  

MugzyBrown: Would Lebron stand in the way of this?

Sauer didn't stand in the way of that.. he was hit with his head down. Dion Phaneuf being a cheap shot artist doesn't make him tough.

Standing in the way of a charge is a conscious decision to not move and absorb the full contact without protecting yourself.


No penalty on the play, hardly a cheap shot. Even Sauer said it was a clean hit. How fast do you think someone is running in on a charge and how fast do you think a player can skate?

A hockey player can get hit like that every time they step on the ice, they make the conscious decision every shift. And would Lebron dive in front a 100 mph slapshot?
 
2012-06-25 01:50:23 PM  

keylock71: I don't know about that... Chara could probably beat him in a bicycle race, climbing a mountain, and, based on his work-out regime, I'm guessing he could probably beat Lebron at just about everything except basketball.


Ummm so he likes to ride his bike a lot. It doesn't say he's a great cyclist.

If you put Lebron in pretty much any athletic event, he would absolutely smoke him. 100m dash, 1,000m, high jump, shotput... assuming they both can swim 100m freestyle.

Chara isn't even particularly gifted at hockey. He skates very well for his size, but to say he skates well for an NHLer would be a joke. He's good enough so that his size and reach become a huge advantage and coordinated enough so that he can use his size to generate a ton of torque on a slap shot.
 
2012-06-25 01:51:10 PM  

animesucks: if anyone can make fun of another professional athlete for not toughing it out, it's hockey players


No shait, those athletes play with broken bones (literally). I've seen many a time where a player gets multiple teeth knocked out (via puck or stick), gets bandaged or stitched and plays the next damn shift.

No athlete more tough than hockey players...none, no not one.
 
2012-06-25 01:52:01 PM  

IAmRight: zippolight2002: Plus a rink is over 2x the length and almost 2x the width of a basketball court.

Gliding across ice is also a far more efficient means of locomotion than running, so the distance isn't that big a deal.


Which means you're travelling faster on skates than you can by running, faster speed = bigger impact.
 
2012-06-25 01:52:05 PM  

ontariolightning: Lebron is a jackass though

ive seen him interupt a teammates interview, crowded the guy out and then start talking about himself


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saj5HqNyeMI

keylock71: MugzyBrown: Chara as an athlete vs lebron is a total joke. Probably the only athletic thing Chara could do better than lebron is ice skate and take a slap shot.

I don't know about that... Chara could probably beat him in a bicycle race, climbing a mountain, and, based on his work-out regime, I'm guessing he could probably beat Lebron at just about everything except basketball.

Chara seems like a far more well rounded athlete than LeBron, at any rate.


Iguodola was a 6'8 high jumper in high school before he switched to basketball full time. He almost certainly would have cleared 7' if he kept it up in college. LeBron is a comparable leaper. I'd take LeBron over Chara in pretty much anything based on speed, strength, or agility. Endurance, I have no idea. I doubt that's really either guy's forte.

Hockey doesn't attract the best athletes because it's really expensive so lots of people don't get into it and it doesn't reward pure athleticism the same way basketball or football does.
 
2012-06-25 01:53:17 PM  

NutznGum: I'm just responding to you saying Chara is 'not a big hitter' and that his talent is on the same level as Muresan


I said Chara's athletic ability is more on par with Muresan than Lebron james. He's obviously good at being a hockey defenseman.

And he's not a big hitter. Do most of his hits come in open ice or by leveraging people against the boards?
 
2012-06-25 01:54:15 PM  

you have pee hands: Hockey doesn't attract the best athletes because it's really expensive so lots of people don't get into it and it doesn't reward pure athleticism the same way basketball or football does.


0/10
 
2012-06-25 01:54:50 PM  

MugzyBrown: Chara isn't even particularly gifted at hockey.


Lol... OK. Whatever you say, my friend.
 
2012-06-25 01:54:58 PM  

NutznGum: Which means you're travelling faster on skates than you can by running, faster speed = bigger impact.


You guys are arguing so many irrelevant points on so many different fronts. Just come up with a particular argument for why NHL players are "tougher" that doesn't involve differences between the sports or arenas that have nothing whatsoever to do with the players.
 
2012-06-25 01:56:10 PM  

SultanofSchwing: you have pee hands: Hockey doesn't attract the best athletes because it's really expensive so lots of people don't get into it and it doesn't reward pure athleticism the same way basketball or football does.

0/10


Someone doesn't understand basic economics or probability.
 
2012-06-25 01:56:18 PM  

meanmutton: balki1867: I actually follow the NHL way more closely than the NBA but this is kind of stupid. In terms of taking a hit you have to be way tougher to play in the NHL, but very few of those guys could handle running up and down the court at an NBA pace for 48 minutes 82+ times a year.

Different sports require different skillsets; shocking, I know.

// Still can't do anything about the flopping in the NBA

Huh? They sprint-skate up and down the rink at an NHL pace for 60 minutes 82+ times a year.


No f**kin' shait! And then do the same thing for a potential of 28 more games in the playoffs. 48 minutes? You're watching 80% of a real game.

Oh - and don't forget the players (NHL) who get into bare-fisted fights (vs the sissy slap-fests that are the NBA and - really - any other sport).

RIP Probert.
 
2012-06-25 01:57:55 PM  

IAmRight: SultanofSchwing: you have pee hands: Hockey doesn't attract the best athletes because it's really expensive so lots of people don't get into it and it doesn't reward pure athleticism the same way basketball or football does.

0/10

Someone doesn't understand basic economics or probability.


-1/10

"doesn't reward pure athleticism" lol...what a joke you two are.
 
2012-06-25 01:58:55 PM  

meanmutton: FreakinB: meanmutton: balki1867: I actually follow the NHL way more closely than the NBA but this is kind of stupid. In terms of taking a hit you have to be way tougher to play in the NHL, but very few of those guys could handle running up and down the court at an NBA pace for 48 minutes 82+ times a year.

Different sports require different skillsets; shocking, I know.

// Still can't do anything about the flopping in the NBA

Huh? They sprint-skate up and down the rink at an NHL pace for 60 minutes 82+ times a year.

But they do it in shifts. Nobody in hockey is playing most of the game, or even half the game. Plus it's not like you're going to glide on a basketball court.

/fan of both, but hockey a bit more

I don't think it's a "I'm a fan of X versus Y" thing at all but I think you're downplaying a bit what kind of condition professional hockey players are in.

Absolutely, they can't make a fade-away three point shot with a defender's hand in their face any more than a basketball player could hit a 90 MPH slap-shot from the point and tuck it into a 4" x 4" spot. Those are areas where they've certainly got substantial differences in skills.



That would be a 4' x 6' space - never mind a goalie limiting the potential for a goal to probably 12 square inches of space.
 
2012-06-25 01:58:56 PM  
Lol... OK. Whatever you say, my friend.

In the NHL skills competition, what event would Chara do well in other than hardest shot?

Is he a fast skater? No.
Is he an agile skater? No.
Is he a good stickhandler? No.

All else being equal, if he was 6'0 185, he wouldn't even be in the NHL.
 
2012-06-25 02:01:02 PM  

IAmRight: NutznGum: Which means you're travelling faster on skates than you can by running, faster speed = bigger impact.

You guys are arguing so many irrelevant points on so many different fronts. Just come up with a particular argument for why NHL players are "tougher" that doesn't involve differences between the sports or arenas that have nothing whatsoever to do with the players.


When an NBA player breaks his leg in a game and hits the winning shot in overtime, let me and Bobby Baun know.
 
2012-06-25 02:03:05 PM  

NutznGum: When an NBA player breaks his leg in a game and hits the winning shot in overtime, let me and Bobby Baun know.


What you don't understand is, being able to play competitively with a broken leg says less about hockey, not more.

An NBA player with a broken leg would be such a liability to his team, if he wanted to play the coach wouldn't play him.
 
2012-06-25 02:04:31 PM  

MugzyBrown: Lol... OK. Whatever you say, my friend.

In the NHL skills competition, what event would Chara do well in other than hardest shot?

Is he a fast skater? No.
Is he an agile skater? No.
Is he a good stickhandler? No.

All else being equal, if he was 6'0 185, he wouldn't even be in the NHL.


And would Lebron be in the NBA at that size? Maybe, but we wouldn't be talking about him right now.
 
2012-06-25 02:05:06 PM  

SultanofSchwing: "doesn't reward pure athleticism" lol...what a joke you two are.


Every sport requires some mix of skill and athleticism, right? The Incredible Hulk would make a pretty good D Lineman - there's skill, but it's dominated by athleticism. John Kruk was a pretty decent baseball player even though he was fat, because being able to hit a ball is a lot more important than being able to run or jump. Hockey requires relatively more skill and relatively less athleticism because skating and controlling a puck with a stick are pretty specialized skills.

Your ceiling in the NHL if you're not tremendously big, strong, and fast is... Wayne Gretzky.
 
2012-06-25 02:05:22 PM  

AKTurkey: [thecapslock.files.wordpress.com image 399x400]

That is all


Good example. He knowingly played an entire playoffs with an untreated broken foot/ankle, rather than have a cast put on and miss the post-season.
 
2012-06-25 02:06:32 PM  

NutznGum: IAmRight: NutznGum: Which means you're travelling faster on skates than you can by running, faster speed = bigger impact.

You guys are arguing so many irrelevant points on so many different fronts. Just come up with a particular argument for why NHL players are "tougher" that doesn't involve differences between the sports or arenas that have nothing whatsoever to do with the players.

When an NBA player breaks his leg in a game and hits the winning shot in overtime, let me and Bobby Baun know.


So because one player proves that hockey isn't as harsh as basketball on the legs, that proves that all hockey players are tougher. You people are really deluded and you need this, don't you?

Okay, dude, you can keep believing it, since that's all you have.
 
2012-06-25 02:09:18 PM  
Oh, and let's not forget the amount of force of a hockey player driving another one into the boards (or hell, how about open-ice hits by, say, a Vladimir Konstantinov [in this hockey days] or a Scott Stevens or even the average sized player.

Where is that in basketball? Nowhere would be the answer.
 
2012-06-25 02:09:24 PM  

NutznGum: And would Lebron be in the NBA at that size? Maybe, but we wouldn't be talking about him right now.


Lebron would probably be an NBA player if he was smaller. He is a good shooter, not great, he can dribble and play good defense, and he is fast. He is very fast for his size, but still fast even for a smaller player.

Would he be the MVP of the league? No. Chara would be a total stiff.
 
2012-06-25 02:12:24 PM  

DaCaptain19: Where is that in basketball? Nowhere would be the answer.


Which has nothing to do with player toughness and everything to do with the sport's setup and the fact that they don't want to lose the puck or injure fans.

Also, you'd be a pretty big piece of sh*t to just randomly hit someone away from the play for no reason but "because I could" in basketball. Pretty sure they'd be able to handle it if it were allowed, though.
 
2012-06-25 02:12:24 PM  
Can someone with more NBA knowledge answer me a question: What do NBA players make in the post season? I know in the NFL, everyone gets a flat sum based on which round of the playoffs it is (wild card, divisional, superbowl, etc...) and whether they win or lose that round. NHL, players get nothing (aside from a select few that may have an escalator clause in their contract for winning the Cup or getting named the Conn Smythe winner). In both of those sports, having bonuses specifically for the play-offs in their contracts isn't allowed**.

How does the NBA handle this?

** In the NHL (and I'm pretty sure the NFL is the same way), you can't have a "$50,000 bonus for making the play-offs", "$5000 for every post-season goal", or "$100,000 for making the cup finals" escaltors in your contract. I'm pretty sure the only one allowed is "$$$ for winning 'award' or leading in certain allowed stat categories."
 
2012-06-25 02:12:27 PM  
ITT: People think a sport which requires parents to subsidize expensive equipment, provides less economic and social incentive for success, is played by a smaller percentage of people worldwide, and has more roster slots at its highest levels provides a better average quality of athlete than what is seen in the National Basketball Association.
 
2012-06-25 02:13:33 PM  

IAmRight: NutznGum: IAmRight: NutznGum: Which means you're travelling faster on skates than you can by running, faster speed = bigger impact.

You guys are arguing so many irrelevant points on so many different fronts. Just come up with a particular argument for why NHL players are "tougher" that doesn't involve differences between the sports or arenas that have nothing whatsoever to do with the players.

When an NBA player breaks his leg in a game and hits the winning shot in overtime, let me and Bobby Baun know.

So because one player proves that hockey isn't as harsh as basketball on the legs, that proves that all hockey players are tougher. You people are really deluded and you need this, don't you?

Okay, dude, you can keep believing it, since that's all you have.


You asked for an example, I provided one.

How about this:

I block a shot in the NBA - high fives from my team mates.

I block a shot in the NHL - I could be killed.
 
2012-06-25 02:13:49 PM  

Mike_LowELL: ITT: People think a sport which requires parents to subsidize expensive equipment, provides less economic and social incentive for success, is played by a smaller percentage of people worldwide, and has more roster slots at its highest levels provides a better average quality of athlete than what is seen in the National Basketball Association.


High barriers to entry and low rewards really ensure that only the best are able to play! Yeah, that's what it is!
 
2012-06-25 02:15:15 PM  

NutznGum: You asked for an example, I provided one.

How about this:

I block a shot in the NBA - high fives from my team mates.

I block a shot in the NHL - I could be killed.


Which is an equipment/rules of the game issue, not a "player toughness" issue.

If you want to say you have to take more abuse in a hockey game, that is a legitimate argument. Saying "players are tougher" is stupid.
 
2012-06-25 02:19:30 PM  

IAmRight: NutznGum: IAmRight: NutznGum:

When an NBA player breaks his leg in a game and hits the winning shot in overtime, let me and Bobby Baun know.

So because one player proves that hockey isn't as harsh as basketball on the legs, that proves that all hockey players are tougher. You people are really deluded and you need this, don't you


Hockey isn't as harsh on the legs? This is from one blocked shot, some players will block 4 or 5 in a game.

img151.imageshack.us
 
2012-06-25 02:19:43 PM  

IAmRight: NutznGum: You asked for an example, I provided one.

How about this:

I block a shot in the NBA - high fives from my team mates.

I block a shot in the NHL - I could be killed.

Which is an equipment/rules of the game issue, not a "player toughness" issue.

If you want to say you have to take more abuse in a hockey game, that is a legitimate argument. Saying "players are tougher" is stupid.


Basketball players act like thugs, and fall to the ground when someone touches their wrist during a shot. They push off on the court when they fall so it looks like "holy cow did you see how hard i just got fouled!?"

Pretty tough guys.

Hockey players on the other hand laugh, and twat their opinions at basket ball players.
 
2012-06-25 02:21:12 PM  

IAmRight: NutznGum: You asked for an example, I provided one.

How about this:

I block a shot in the NBA - high fives from my team mates.

I block a shot in the NHL - I could be killed.

Which is an equipment/rules of the game issue, not a "player toughness" issue.

If you want to say you have to take more abuse in a hockey game, that is a legitimate argument. Saying "players are tougher" is stupid.


Wouldn't 'taking more abuse in a game' kind of be the definition of toughness? How are you defining it?
 
2012-06-25 02:23:12 PM  
My only contribution is that players will play injured...in the playoffs mostly . an off hand example is Sergi Gonchar after Ovechkin collided with him knee of knee. He had a torn MCL from that and still came back the next series AND was productive while injured( with the Penguins. )

This isn't a lone example either. Many players never disclose when they are injured during playoffs because it gives the other team a target. Grin and bear it, release the details later.

But this is very subjective to the definition of "player toughness."
 
2012-06-25 02:26:23 PM  

NutznGum: Hockey isn't as harsh on the legs? This is from one blocked shot, some players will block 4 or 5 in a game.


Holy sh*t you people are really, genuinely stupid, aren't you? When an activity is described as "hard on your back" do you think that's referring to how many times something hits you in the back?

NutznGum: Wouldn't 'taking more abuse in a game' kind of be the definition of toughness? How are you defining it?


You are saying the players are tougher. No, the sport is "tougher." Not the players.

boozehat: Hockey players on the other hand laugh, and twat their opinions at basket ball players.


And then fall to the ice when a stick gets anywhere near their head level. Or jump to the ice anytime a stick gets near their skates when they f*ck up a shot.
 
2012-06-25 02:27:28 PM  
I came here expecting the stupid and I got it. Well done all of you.
 
2012-06-25 02:28:29 PM  

AKTurkey: [thecapslock.files.wordpress.com image 399x400]

That is all


I can't believe I had to go halfway through a long thread about diving and flopping in sports before someone posted Sidney Crosby. You guys are slacking, normally he's the first one up.

/Sid's gotten a lot better
//LeBron, however, remains a douche
 
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