I'm really glad to see the support for Monsters Inc. coming here at the end of the thread at last. It's really one of their best films. In creativity, story, humor, characters, and quality of animation, it stands head and shoulders above most of their other films.

After thinking about it overnight I still say that my only real knock on this movie is that the story seems to take Tangled, How to Train Your Dragon and Brother Bear, puts them in a blender and this was the result.

I'd be curious as to how close the final product was to Brenda Chapman's original vision was for this film and what the "creative differences" were that caused her to be yanked out of the director's chair.

Fano: eddiesocket: Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: The closing shot of Sully is why they *shouldn't* make a Monsters Inc. sequel.

They're not. It's a prequel.

What if they did a "reimagining?"

Then they can DIAF!

fusillade762: I can still remember when "Babe" came out (or maybe it was the sequel?) McDonalds had Babe Happy Meals that came with little stuffed pig and cow toys. I went in and asked if I could get one with a bacon cheeseburger. The clerk either had zero sense of irony or he'd heard that a thousand times because he just stared blankly at me.

Or (C) He was a McDonalds employee and therefore was only capable of staring blankly at the people ordering food.

Don't try to be cute to fast food employees. The stupid ones don't get it, and the smart ones (still in school and hating their jobs) will think you're a douche... and possibly alter the quality of your food.

eddiesocket: They're not. It's a prequel.

A follow-up project, I mean, regardless of whether it's a prequel or sequel.

Monsters Inc. was a perfect self-contained movie. I see no need for another movie, but I'm sure the Pixar money bin folks see things just a tad differently.

I couldn't put Pixar movies in order, so I'll just put them on categories.

The ones I LOVED: Up, Wall-e, Ratatouille, Toy Story 1 and 3, The Incredibles.

The ones I really liked: Bug's Life, Monsters Inc., Toy Story 2, Finding Nemo.

The one that is OK: Cars.

I don't hate Cars, I think is fun enough to watch it on DVD (it's my baby brother's favorite movie), but it's not nearly as good as the rest.

Hope to see Brave soon enough, and despite the criticism, I will watch Cars 2 just to see if it's really that awful.

DarkPascual: The ones I LOVED: Up, Wall-e, Ratatouille, Toy Story 1 and 3, The Incredibles.

I have never seen Wall-E or Up. Absolutely love The Incredibles. Are they planning a SQL.

My problem with Brave is that the main character didn't learn anything. She started off as a brat, and in the end, her mom accepts the bratness, while I never got the sense that Meridea ever accepts her adult place in the world.

Well, I guess she learned that "if you are a teenaged brat and are getting hassled by your mom, you should do the worst imaginable thing to her, and then mom will love you for it when everything gets fixed."

Which seemed like a weird lesson to be taught.

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: eddiesocket: They're not. It's a prequel.

A follow-up project, I mean, regardless of whether it's a prequel or sequel.

Monsters Inc. was a perfect self-contained movie. I see no need for another movie, but I'm sure the Pixar money bin folks see things just a tad differently.

What if they added a breakout character ala Stifler from American Pie? That would be rad!

Harry_Seldon: DarkPascual: The ones I LOVED: Up, Wall-e, Ratatouille, Toy Story 1 and 3, The Incredibles.

I have never seen Wall-E or Up. Absolutely love The Incredibles. Are they planning a SQL.

If you have the chance, watch them. Both have great moments, are beautifully designed and animated, and I found them honestly heartwarming.

As far as I know, there are no plans to do an Incredibles sequel. I would say that is for the better, but the Toy Story movies are proof that Pixar could come up with some great ideas.

vrax: So, in what way was the rest of "Wall-E" bad? Please tell me that you aren't one of those dullards who was offended by the depiction of the gluttonous humans.

The second part of the movie is a boring, drek-ful, moralizing piece of dogma in a worse way than the "consumption mmkay" aspects of He-Man or GI Joe were rather trashy back in the day.

You want to agree with the dogma? Fine. I think it's lazy. The gluttonous humans were simplistic in the extreme, and the robots (like Wall-E and EVE) were what brought them to that state.

How do you reconcile Wall-E & the fatass humans coexistence in the end? Technology bad (except for the ones that remind us of Chaplin, or the ones that agree with our socio-political point of view)... pretty damn lame.

Wall-E is a mish-mash in a way that Cars was not, and Cars wasn't that great. At least Cars hung together internally, and has a broader appeal than Cult of Mac.

Wall-E simply doesn't belong in the same sentence as The Incredibles or Toy Story 3... or even Tangled, Cars, Ratatouille, etc.

snowshovel: My problem with Brave is that the main character didn't learn anything. She started off as a brat, and in the end, her mom accepts the bratness, while I never got the sense that Meridea ever accepts her adult place in the world.

Well, I guess she learned that "if you are a teenaged brat and are getting hassled by your mom, you should do the worst imaginable thing to her, and then mom will love you for it when everything gets fixed."

Which seemed like a weird lesson to be taught.

I think the theme was about being yourself and taking charge of your own destiny. In fact Merida actually does start to accept her princessly duties and she and her mother realize that they need to meet in the middle if they're going to have a happy relationship. That awkward scene where it looks like she's going to make an announcement (but instead plays a sort of charades with someone off camera) implies that she was going to accept that a decision concerning this match making had to be made. She was pretty much ready to do what she had to abate a tense situation, something she would have completely avoided the day before.

Family drug me off to the Snow White with Julia Roberts and they played the ad for Brave... I have never, ever witnessed a theater fill of people go so crazy for an ad. Crowd was mostly young girls, but still... never.

Maduin: Family drug me off to the Snow White with Julia Roberts and they played the ad for Brave... I have never, ever witnessed a theater fill of people go so crazy for an ad. Crowd was mostly young girls, but still... never.

I about yelled "Holy Copyright Improbability, Batman!" in that video game movie trailer. I imagine it was like that when people first saw the marketing for Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

Fano: snowshovel: My problem with Brave is that the main character didn't learn anything. She started off as a brat, and in the end, her mom accepts the bratness, while I never got the sense that Meridea ever accepts her adult place in the world.

Well, I guess she learned that "if you are a teenaged brat and are getting hassled by your mom, you should do the worst imaginable thing to her, and then mom will love you for it when everything gets fixed."

Which seemed like a weird lesson to be taught.

Movie teaches you to be yourself

Huh?? I would get that if Merida was attempted to be someone other than herself, and failed. But at no point did she even try to be the character hew mom wanted her to be.

The whole movie was "You don't like what your parents want you to do? Just keep on rebelling, and in fact hurting them, don't worry, they'll come around."

snowshovel: Fano: snowshovel: My problem with Brave is that the main character didn't learn anything. She started off as a brat, and in the end, her mom accepts the bratness, while I never got the sense that Meridea ever accepts her adult place in the world.

Well, I guess she learned that "if you are a teenaged brat and are getting hassled by your mom, you should do the worst imaginable thing to her, and then mom will love you for it when everything gets fixed."

Which seemed like a weird lesson to be taught.

Movie teaches you to be yourself

Huh?? I would get that if Merida was attempted to be someone other than herself, and failed. But at no point did she even try to be the character hew mom wanted her to be.

The whole movie was "You don't like what your parents want you to do? Just keep on rebelling, and in fact hurting them, don't worry, they'll come around."

But her mother was hurting her by not listening to her concerns about marriage. What Merida did (ripping the patchwork, which of course was the key to the whole "your mom can stop being a bear when you apologize for your immaturity" clue from the witch) was stupid, and she obviously realized that during and after the whole Mom Is A Bear thing.

What did you want, to see Merida get beaten down and just marry some dude to make mom happy?

I always thought a sequel to Monsters, Inc. should be a dark movie in which we catch up with Boo, now an adult with kids of her own. The world is on the brink of nuclear disaster, the reason for which is no one has learned to be scared anymore because the monsters turned into a comedy act. Sully and Mike, having forgotten what it takes to scare, go to the Florida Everglades to track down the one monster who hasn't lost his touch--Randall. But Randall has an agenda of his own. . ..

Nah, Pixar would never make it.

vrax: legion_of_doo: TheMatchHare: KatjaMouse: Unsung_Hero: I'd go further - I'd say that the first act of Up and the first act of Wall-E are effectively different movies from the remainder of the films. They're ART with all three letters capitalized.

I think if Charlie Chaplan were alive to see Up he'd wave his arms and applaud and exclaim "SEE! See everyone! I TOLD you silent story telling isn't dead!"

My favorite part about Wall-E was that the first half hour or so was basically a Chaplin tramp comedy with robots. It went down hill after that for me, but still a fun/decent film. I guess it was also as heavy-handed as Chaplin films tended to be, so it also had that going for it...

exactly.

the robot part of wall-e is superb, but the rest of the movie was pretty bad. people may scoff at Cars, but the story and the way the characters fit together were far better as a whole than that dreadfully overrated wall-e.

wall-e is yet another example of the over-use of the word "great". if wall-e is "great", you might as well call Disney's Hercules, Tarzan, and Atlantis "great", then.

/ Jobs is dead. he doesn't care if you all kiss his ass anymore

So, in what way was the rest of "Wall-E" bad? Please tell me that you aren't one of those dullards who was offended by the depiction of the gluttonous humans.

I know you weren't directing your comment at me, but I thought I'd clarify my view anyway. ..and, in case anyone cares, obviously there will be spoilers here.

The fact that the humans were gluttonous & wasteful didn't bother me at all (that was, after all, the point), but the humans on the ship didn't really have any real redeeming qualities at all, when there was no need for that to be true for the story to work. Having them be ignorant to the point where the Captain doesn't know what's on his vessel, nor what the vessel's purpose actually is carries the degeneration of the species a bit too far without any corresponding payoff. Honestly, if the audience wasn't humans themselves, what possible motivation is there to root for the survival of the species based upon what you see in the film?

The other real problem I had is the choice of villians. It's a recurring theme where characters on the ship change for the better after their encounter with Wall-E (to the point where Wall-E spends a fair part of the third act practically destroyed with only the others he's interacted with to make things right). To carry on that theme, the story begs for a villian who has a change-of-heart and gets behind the idea of restoring the planet back to what it was. In this case, though, the ultimate villian (Fred Willard's character) is presumably long dead and his henchman (the autopilot) is never converted to see the benefit of trying to fix things--it's merely powered off & would actively resist everything if it were ever turned back on. With the villians in the movie seeming to have a far greater knowledge than the other human characters, having them always against the plan of restoring the Earth keeps alive a seed of doubt as to whether the plan is even feasible. Having Wall-E convert the villian, as he did EVE, John, Mary & the Captain would have removed quite a bit of this doubt that the efforts to fix the planet could succeed.

The kicker for me is that having the captain as a villian instead of a buffon would pretty much solve all my complaints with the film without having to really change anything fundamentally. There's no particular reason for Fred Willard's character to not tell the ship's captain of the change of plans, given the circumstances of the time, so a human could easily take the role of being the villian without being truly evil or beyond redemption. He'd simply be doing what he thought was best for everyone given his orders, which is reasonable and the same stubbornness of the autopilot wouldn't be out of place on such a character. That's neither here nor there, though...

Anyway, all that aside, I really did enjoy Wall-E and, in fact, own the DVD. I just also feel there's some perfectly reasonable flaws one can find in the film without too much effort or nitpicking.

Grown men arguing about movies geared towards children never fails to amuse me.

You lame farks would argue that a dime was worth more that a quarter if someone started a post about it.

TheMatchHare: In this case, though, the ultimate villian (Fred Willard's character) is presumably long dead and his henchman (the autopilot) is never converted to see the benefit of trying to fix things--it's merely powered off & would actively resist everything if it were ever turned back on.

Hard to say Otto (Auto?) was a traditional villain. It/he wasn't acting out of malice, he was following the last superior order he received.

The other robots changing to 'good' is more unlikely; depending on one's interpretation of what an AI is capable of, or whether some of those bots should even be capable of independent thought.

snowshovel: My problem with Brave is that the main character didn't learn anything. She started off as a brat, and in the end, her mom accepts the bratness, while I never got the sense that Meridea ever accepts her adult place in the world.

SPOILER ALERT

So you completely missed the part where the only thing that removed the spell was that Meridea had to admit that the whole thing was her fault? Had she not accepted responsibility for her actions (something she'd denied the whole movie), she would have completely destroyed her family. You also kind of skipped over Meridea's speech to the combatants earlier. Her mother wasn't feeding her the part about what she learned from the other castle.

Are you brain dead or just a professional film critic?

megalynn44: snowshovel:
Huh?? I would get that if Merida was attempted to be someone other than herself, and failed. But at no point did she even try to be the character hew mom wanted her to be.

The whole movie was "You don't like what your parents want you to do? Just keep on rebelling, and in fact hurting them, don't worry, they'll come around."

WTF are you talking about? What do you call that whole scene where she goes in and brings all the tribes to peace through her speech and makes Mom really effing proud? Then later in the movie Merida takes full responsibility for the mess she put everyone in, acknowledges that she was being selfish, and goes on to fix the mess she created.

Exactly. And the mom met her halfway and realized that not wanting to be forced to be in an arranged marriage with a stranger is not simply being a "brat".

I do not know what the critics are smoking, but this is a wonderful film. Definitely worth paying full price in the theatre for.

This is a fairy-tale where they have veered away from the "Prince Charming" trope into saving families. This is about saving a mother and daughter's relationship as the daughter passes through a turbulent adolescence, feeling the constriction of adult responsibilities looming as represented (to her) by her overbearing mother.

Putting Merida's more extreme fairy-tale traits aside (like being the perfect archer, etc.) she is very much a headstrong teenage girl, convinced that the world is out to get her and that she knows best, listening to no one, thoughtlessly hurting people to get her way. She is not unkind, she just is not thinking. Elinor is also convinced that she knows best, trying to make her daughter into a second version of herself to prepare her for her adult responsibilities as a noble woman. Elinor is proud and (benevolently) dictatorial, Merida is proud and rebellious, but neither is a caricature. Elinor truly loves her daughter and is doing what she thinks is is best. Merida is angry at her mother, but is appalled at what she has done. Neither one is really communicating to the other.

Seriously, what woman has not gone through this?

The story is their journey to understanding. Merida's learns that as an adult, she make take responsibility for her actions and take on adult responsibilities in life. Elinor learns that her daughter is not her, but someone special with her own strengths and that needs space and understanding to grow into the woman and leader she has the potential to be. The journey is fresh and exciting, with real emotion and human interaction, and the final climax is so viscerally satisfying and edge of your seat (I was literally on the edge of my seat) exciting, I'm having chills just thinking about it now.

And the twist bringing the story of the magic full circle makes it very satisfying.

Emma Thompson is perfectly cast as Elinor, a proud but kind noble woman who is honestly confused and frustrated with the daughter she loves. Kelly MacDonald's Merida is fiery and reckless, yet with true heart. Billy Connally's Fergus is the typical father in this situation; holding great love for his family, but befuddled on the sidelines of a fray he has no hope of understanding.

The world Pixar has created is stunning. They reach new heights with animation here. The beauty of the landscape is photo-realistic at points, the figures are wonderfully rendered with Pixar's attention to detail.

Most mother-daughter films I do not resonate with me, "Ya-Ya Sisterhood" etc. just have nothing for me to relate to, but this does. Probably because in general terms, this is what happened between myself (you know me, not imagine me as a teenager, if that isn't enough to put people off having children, I don't know what is) and my mother who came from a long line of high-ranking officers wives.

snowshovel: My problem with Brave is that the main character didn't learn anything. She started off as a brat, and in the end, her mom accepts the bratness, while I never got the sense that Meridea ever accepts her adult place in the world.

Remember how when her mother first transformed she was saying, 'It's not my fault, don't blame me!" and then the throne room she said she had offended, she had to make amends and fix the problem?

That was her growing up.

People seem to miss the point of this was Merida was taking her first steps toward adult responsibility.

Surool: snowshovel: My problem with Brave is that the main character didn't learn anything. She started off as a brat, and in the end, her mom accepts the bratness, while I never got the sense that Meridea ever accepts her adult place in the world.

SPOILER ALERT

So you completely missed the part where the only thing that removed the spell was that Meridea had to admit that the whole thing was her fault? Had she not accepted responsibility for her actions (something she'd denied the whole movie), she would have completely destroyed her family. You also kind of skipped over Meridea's speech to the combatants earlier. Her mother wasn't feeding her the part about what she learned from the other castle.


She admitted it was her fault but I thought the whole thing was more than a bit obvious. In fact, the entire plot was 100% predictable - not necessarily a bad thing if the journey is fun and interesting but I thought this journey was pretty pedestrian. Whenever Merida, i.e. the writers, couldn't find a natural way to advance the story in the direction they wanted, out would come the will o' wisps to steer the plot where the writers wanted it to go. Can you say plot device?

In the same way, the clans were mostly depicted as a bunch of baboons so I couldn't take their fighting seriously. It looked more like they were having a food fight. There was no real sense of danger there so Merida's actions come off less heroic because of it. I'm not even entirely sure what they were fighting about in the first place but the writers needed a crisis for Merida to resolve so there it was. Hell, one of the clan chiefs was even named MacGuffin fer crissakes. I guess he embraced his role.

Don't get me wrong. The movie was enjoyable and never boring or annoying like so many other kid movies but it wasn't up there with the other Pixar efforts.

So Brave is to The Incredibles as Ponyo is to Spirited Away?

In other words, still better than 99% of the other animated movies this year.

Persnickety: In fact, the entire plot was 100% predictable - not necessarily a bad thing if the journey is fun and interesting but I thought this journey was pretty pedestrian

You really thought Marlin would not fin Nemo? That Boo would never make it home? That Bob and Helen and the kids would not come together to save the world?

I thought it was very natural that having seen the consequences of her actions on someone she loves, having seen her mother disappear into the bear and realize how much was riding her freeing her mother from the spell, that she would realize come to accept her responsibility in the mess that she had created. Her speech to the clan leaders was an analogy for what she had done to her mother, she'd messed up and it was her responsibility to her own mistake it.

My daughters saw the movie with my husband and they loved it. Some Pixar movies I like better than others, but I can honestly say there isn't one that I would say was horrible beyond watching. I want to see Brave myself. I didn't go because I can't stand to sit in the movie theater seat for too long because of my arthritis in my knees (I'm tall and the seats are too cramped), but I will be definitely getting it on DVD and watching it then.

Some folks might not Wall-E, but it is probably my favorite so far. For me I liked the whole Robinson Crusoe-esque feel it has in the beginning on Earth. I think the message of the movie is fairly obvious without hitting you over the head with it. And if memory serves, there were a lot of environmental groups who wanted to tag themselves with the marketing of the movie and Pixar said no. They wanted the movie to speak for itself instead of being a cause. I think had that happened, the real story underneath it all would have been lost. It was a story about robots, not people.

A second Monster's Inc movie would be a horrible idea. As someone said earlier, the final shot of Monsters with Sully looking in on Boo is enough. I think adding anything more would ruin the original.

Finding Nemo was good. I liked Ellen DeGeneres as Dory but I couldn't stand Albert Brooks as Marlin. But I don't like Albert Brooks in general. However, for Marlin's character, Albert Brooks was a good fit given the nature of the character.

My favorite scene in Toy Story 2 was Jesse's story with the song "When She Loved Me". Other than that, the movie was okay. Not necessarily my favorite out of the bunch.

Cars was decent and okay. Cars 2? Eh.. there's only so much of Larry the Cable Guy you can take.

I enjoyed Up. The dog and his inability to *SQUIRREL!* and the first few minutes of the movie showing the life of of the old man and his wife.

I really liked Ratatouille and The Incredibles. There's one particular scene in the Incredibles that always makes me laugh and is first that comes to mind. Dash it running across the water and when he realizes he is over the water, there's this little giggle he does.

While we're on the subject, how about the Pixar shorts? What are your favorites.


For me:

1. Jack-Jack Attack (The Incredibles/DVD)
2. Presto (WALL-E)
3. One Man Band (Cars)
4. Partly Cloudy (Up)
5. Boundin' (The Incredibles)

/Hot

KiplingKat872: Persnickety: In fact, the entire plot was 100% predictable - not necessarily a bad thing if the journey is fun and interesting but I thought this journey was pretty pedestrian

You really thought Marlin would not fin Nemo? That Boo would never make it home? That Bob and Helen and the kids would not come together to save the world?

Um, yeah, I said predictable is not necessarily bad as long as the journey is interesting. You must have missed that part.


I thought it was very natural that having seen the consequences of her actions on someone she loves, having seen her mother disappear into the bear and realize how much was riding her freeing her mother from the spell, that she would realize come to accept her responsibility in the mess that she had created. Her speech to the clan leaders was an analogy for what she had done to her mother, she'd messed up and it was her responsibility to her own mistake it.

The whole bear thing was just ... odd. Seemed out of place and forced.. I can accept a mother/daughter story but the plot crippled the concept but making the mother effectively mute. The fishing stuff was cute and mom learned that her daughter can fish but what did it have to do with the central issue of duty, responsibility and freedom to choose?

The clans fighting reminded me of the ridiculous scene in Cinderella where the king goes bonkers and starts throwing things because the prince refuses to marry. More comical than serious. I dunno. The whole tone was seemed off in a lot of places.

The movie was also lacking a compelling villain. The mean old bear was just an uninteresting monster.

The witch and the will o' wisps existed seemingly without context. They show up when the plot needs them and then disappear. We don't know their motivations, history, how they fit in the world or why it makes sense that they would appear when they do.

The previews for Brave show Merida with a bow and promise an adventure but the plot is basically a Lifetime Original Movie but with animation and some archery in the first act, combined with schlocky SyFy monster/magic MacGuffins.

Persnickety: KiplingKat872: Persnickety: In fact, the entire plot was 100% predictable - not necessarily a bad thing if the journey is fun and interesting but I thought this journey was pretty pedestrian

You really thought Marlin would not fin Nemo? That Boo would never make it home? That Bob and Helen and the kids would not come together to save the world?

Um, yeah, I said predictable is not necessarily bad as long as the journey is interesting. You must have missed that part.


I thought it was very natural that having seen the consequences of her actions on someone she loves, having seen her mother disappear into the bear and realize how much was riding her freeing her mother from the spell, that she would realize come to accept her responsibility in the mess that she had created. Her speech to the clan leaders was an analogy for what she had done to her mother, she'd messed up and it was her responsibility to her own mistake it.

The whole bear thing was just ... odd. Seemed out of place and forced.. I can accept a mother/daughter story but the plot crippled the concept but making the mother effectively mute. The fishing stuff was cute and mom learned that her daughter can fish but what did it have to do with the central issue of duty, responsibility and freedom to choose?


Well, the point was that Merida and her mother started to communicate better when her mother was effectively mute than at any time before that. They were FORCED to pay attention to exactly what the other was saying...which is why Merida's mom signing pantomiming her change of heart about marriage to her daughter after seeing her daughter try to take on the Princess role to calm the clans down was so effective.

TheMatchHare: The kicker for me is that having the captain as a villian instead of a buffon would pretty much solve all my complaints with the film without having to really change anything fundamentally. There's no particular reason for Fred Willard's character to not tell the ship's captain of the change of plans, given the circumstances of the time, so a human could easily take the role of being the villian without being truly evil or beyond redemption. He'd simply be doing what he thought was best for everyone given his orders, which is reasonable and the same stubbornness of the autopilot wouldn't be out of place on such a character. That's neither here nor there, though...

That's an interesting idea, that the captain is in charge, but if the ship goes back to earth, he's just another grunt.

My biggest problem with Wall-E is humanity. For one thing, a lot of people wouldn't want to go to earth. Why be a farmer when the food just appears. Secondly, in a society where money makes no difference, there would be an even greater emphasis on being in good physical shape to attract a mate.

I saw it yesterday afternoon, and enjoyed it

I could have dealt without the mischief triplets, that's my only actual complaint

Slow To Return: Grown men arguing about movies geared towards children never fails to amuse me.

You lame farks would argue that a dime was worth more that a quarter if someone started a post about it.

Aww, your childish idea of what grown men (and women) are supposed to do is so cute. Now, back to your crib for nap time.

Smelly McUgly: Well, the point was that Merida and her mother started to communicate better when her mother was effectively mute than at any time before that. They were FORCED to pay attention to exactly what the other was saying...which is why Merida's mom signing pantomiming her change of heart about marriage to her daughter after seeing her daughter try to take on the Princess role to calm the clans down was so effective.

But that's kind of my point. Instead of Merida and her mom learning to communicate naturally, you have one person dominating the conversation while the other mimes. Contrast with the buddy/travel portion of The Emperors New Groove where two characters go on an adventure and one is an animal. The animal can still talk and it makes their interaction more engaging and real - or as real as one person turning into an animal can be. Instead we get a teenage fantasy where mom is forced to shut up and listen to you.

Again, not that the movie was bad, just that the movie took the easy way out too often. I've seen almost everything in Brave before, oftentimes done better.

Persnickety:



The whole bear thing was just ... odd. Seemed out of place and forced.. I can accept a mother/daughter story but the plot crippled the concept but making the mother effectively mute. The fishing stuff was cute and mom learned that her daughter can fish but what did it have to do with the central issue of duty, responsibility and freedom to choose?

The fishing scene was important because it forced Elinor, who prides herself on elegance and propriety, to learn a useful skill from her tomboy daugher. It was a moment where two people stopped talking at each other and communicated instead.


The movie was also lacking a compelling villain. The mean old bear was just an uninteresting monster.

The witch and the will o' wisps existed seemingly without context. They show up when the plot needs them and then disappear. We don't know their motivations, history, how they fit in the world or why it makes sense that they would appear when they do.



We know that long ago the witch cast a similar spell that also backfired, turning the prince into the insane bear. No idea why she has a bear fixation, though. I'll grant that her disappearance was a bit contrived. The will-o'-the-wisps supposedly lead people to their fates...but mythology usually has them luring travellers astray into bogs.

cretinbob: I also have to say that people who think John Carter sucked, didn't read the book or books. It was awesome as fark.That being said, the fact that you had to have read the book or books to really enjoy the movie....not a good thing.

but so much was wrong

at least it looked close to right

Devo Cornholiosky: AverageAmericanGuy: Skipping on Cars because of Larry the Cable Guy is like skipping on Toy Story because of Jim Varney.

Jim Varney could do the hell out of Shakespeare. I'd be surprised if the guy playing Larry could spell Shakespeare.

Of course he can, it's right there on his fishing rod.

KiplingKat872: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 608x457]

/Hot

Too bad the other 88 minutes were mediocre.

Digitalstrange: Devo Cornholiosky: AverageAmericanGuy: Skipping on Cars because of Larry the Cable Guy is like skipping on Toy Story because of Jim Varney.

Jim Varney could do the hell out of Shakespeare. I'd be surprised if the guy playing Larry could spell Shakespeare.

Of course he can, it's right there on his fishing rod.

Also, behind-the-scenes footage demonstrates that Larry the Cable Guy is a persona Daniel Whitney steps into. He has masterful comic timing onstage and plays his audience so well that they don't mind that they are the target of his humor. I wouldn't be surprised if Whitney, once Larry has played out, sets him down and goes after a more "citified" comic approach.

Persnickety: Smelly McUgly: Well, the point was that Merida and her mother started to communicate better when her mother was effectively mute than at any time before that. They were FORCED to pay attention to exactly what the other was saying...which is why Merida's mom signing pantomiming her change of heart about marriage to her daughter after seeing her daughter try to take on the Princess role to calm the clans down was so effective.

But that's kind of my point. Instead of Merida and her mom learning to communicate naturally, you have one person dominating the conversation while the other mimes. Contrast with the buddy/travel portion of The Emperors New Groove where two characters go on an adventure and one is an animal. The animal can still talk and it makes their interaction more engaging and real - or as real as one person turning into an animal can be. Instead we get a teenage fantasy where mom is forced to shut up and listen to you.

Again, not that the movie was bad, just that the movie took the easy way out too often. I've seen almost everything in Brave before, oftentimes done better.

Well, but you lose the point that they were talking AT each other without listening. The pantomime forced them to stop doing that. If her mom kept talking, they would have kept verbalizing crosswise to one another instead of having to step back and really pay attention.