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(CBS Boston)   Kevin Youkilis is told to change his Sox   (boston.cbslocal.com) divider line 71
    More: Followup, Kevin Youkilis, Red Sox, White Sox, Brent Lillibridge, pinch runner, interleague game, Fenway Park, curtain calls  
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1157 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Jun 2012 at 10:48 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-24 06:09:40 PM  
Okay, I love the headline and am glad I didn't submit one.

+1
 
2012-06-24 10:56:30 PM  
Yay, a thread!

Is this is the first CLEAR WIN trade Kenny Williams has ever made? Or am I forgetting something?
 
2012-06-24 10:56:43 PM  
At some point in 2011, Stewart and Lillibridge would have seemed like a decent haul. But since both have reverted to their old replacement-level selves in 2012, I can't say I understand this one. Especially when Boston also pays for the rest of Youk's contract.
 
2012-06-24 10:57:43 PM  
The AL Central will get to see even more of his straight down Broadway strike 3 biatching, good for them.

/that dig aside, it's gonna be really weird seeing him in another uniform
 
2012-06-24 10:59:47 PM  

Super Chronic: Especially when Boston also pays for the rest of Youk's contract.


One star for 2 "meh" players seemed odd to me. Maybe it's coz Youk is 33 and getting close to the end of his shelf life? *shrug*
 
2012-06-24 11:02:32 PM  

Super Chronic: At some point in 2011, Stewart and Lillibridge would have seemed like a decent haul. But since both have reverted to their old replacement-level selves in 2012, I can't say I understand this one. Especially when Boston also pays for the rest of Youk's contract.


The BoSox view is, essentially, this makes Middlebrooks the starting 3B. A lot of teams would kill to have that going on.

As I said in one of the earlier threads, I have to assume that the BoSox are pretty sure they can 'fix' Stewart (which, since his primary problem is HR luck, shouldn't be TOO difficult). Apparently, he was the guy they really wanted...Lillibridge was just because they wanted a guy who can play anywhere. The bench was sorely lacking in someone like that.
 
2012-06-24 11:04:44 PM  
Actually, what really confuses me is that Boston got two 40-man roster guys back. They were already at 40 (and in fact DFAed Oscar Tejada today, but that's no great loss), but they'll be facing a bit of a crunch when the 60-day DL guys start to arrive.

Would've much rather gotten 2 C to B level prospects on minor-league deals, even if they amounted to nothing.
 
2012-06-24 11:11:19 PM  
Wow, I really thought the Dodgers would make a good run at him. I don't watch too many of their games, but I believe who they consider their #1 options at 1B and 3B are still, "respectively", James Loney and Juan Uribe.
 
2012-06-24 11:11:25 PM  
Kevin Youlilis is a good man and a good ball player and I wish him well.
 
2012-06-24 11:12:17 PM  

robsul82: it's gonna be really weird seeing him in another uniform


Eh, not that weird - he'll still be butt ugly.
 
2012-06-24 11:13:27 PM  

Killer Cars: Wow, I really thought the Dodgers would make a good run at him. I don't watch too many of their games, but I believe who they consider their #1 options at 1B and 3B are still, "respectively", James Loney and Juan Uribe.


Yeah, they were my best guess as well.
 
2012-06-24 11:21:44 PM  

Kevin72: Kevin Youlilis is a good man and a good ball player and I wish him well.

 
2012-06-24 11:36:44 PM  
My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.
 
2012-06-24 11:38:41 PM  
As for the people questioning why he was traded for such a lowly haul: the clubhouse hates him. He's tough to take, especially when he'shiatting like .220 and isn't producing anything b/c he's injured. The Bosox just wanted him gone... it isn't like he's going to get better the older he gets. And if he pulls a Clemens... I think we all know what piss test to administer before we believe it.
 
2012-06-24 11:43:34 PM  
Great, another older, former awesome player at the
End of his career. Thanks Kenny.
 
2012-06-24 11:50:52 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: the clubhouse hates him.


I disagree with this claim. BOBBY V seems to hate him, but I haven't really seen anything credible that suggests the players did.

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: And if he pulls a Clemens


By "pull a Clemens", I assume you mean "start hitting well in Chicago?" Because I can provide you with all sorts of reasons to believe that'll happen anyway. In fact, I did, down in the Moyer thread.
 
2012-06-24 11:54:39 PM  
Hmm...I guess that they'll need to sell off Youkilis jerseys. I wonder if I can get a good one.
 
2012-06-24 11:54:50 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Yay, a thread!

Is this is the first CLEAR WIN trade Kenny Williams has ever made? Or am I forgetting something?


He traded for a player no longer on roids?
 
2012-06-24 11:58:25 PM  

skoobx: My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.


I think we all know that story, but other than maybe Varitek, what Jerseys could you have bought those three years that wouldn't have had a very similar result?

Also, Wakefield
 
2012-06-24 11:59:14 PM  

ilikeracecars: I think we all know that story, but other than maybe Varitek, what Jerseys could you have bought those three years that wouldn't have had a very similar result?

Also, Wakefield


Ortiz?
 
2012-06-24 11:59:28 PM  
I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.
 
2012-06-25 12:03:11 AM  

ongbok: I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.


Well, they didn't WANT to trade him to the AL. But the Pirates, Braves and D-backs all dropped out. That left the Dodgers, and I haven't heard anything about who they might have been offering. Might've been nothing.

And they pretty much had to trade him. Especially after all the stuff that happened Saturday.
 
2012-06-25 12:07:17 AM  

DeWayne Mann: ongbok: I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.

Well, they didn't WANT to trade him to the AL. But the Pirates, Braves and D-backs all dropped out. That left the Dodgers, and I haven't heard anything about who they might have been offering. Might've been nothing.

And they pretty much had to trade him. Especially after all the stuff that happened Saturday.


What happened Saturday? I was pretty much out of the loop this weekend.
 
2012-06-25 12:23:45 AM  

ongbok: DeWayne Mann: ongbok: I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.

Well, they didn't WANT to trade him to the AL. But the Pirates, Braves and D-backs all dropped out. That left the Dodgers, and I haven't heard anything about who they might have been offering. Might've been nothing.

And they pretty much had to trade him. Especially after all the stuff that happened Saturday.

What happened Saturday? I was pretty much out of the loop this weekend.


Super short version since I'm on my tablet now: Bobby V had said he was having conversations with Youk about what was going on (getting benched, trade talks, etc). Youk said that he was basically learning everything from the media. Bobby V claimed he never meant that he was PERSONALLY talking to youk...he was just pretty sure that SOMEONE was.
 
2012-06-25 12:28:03 AM  

DeWayne Mann: ongbok: I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.

Well, they didn't WANT to trade him to the AL. But the Pirates, Braves and D-backs all dropped out. That left the Dodgers, and I haven't heard anything about who they might have been offering. Might've been nothing.

And they pretty much had to trade him. Especially after all the stuff that happened Saturday.



I was hoping they'd at least trade him to the Reds (his hometown) and get Arroyo back, and maybe some magic beans. *shrug*

/I really hate this ownership group
//don't give me that, "they got you two WS championships" crap either
///they are scumbags
 
2012-06-25 12:41:22 AM  

fatalvenom: DeWayne Mann: ongbok: I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.

Well, they didn't WANT to trade him to the AL. But the Pirates, Braves and D-backs all dropped out. That left the Dodgers, and I haven't heard anything about who they might have been offering. Might've been nothing.

And they pretty much had to trade him. Especially after all the stuff that happened Saturday.


I was hoping they'd at least trade him to the Reds (his hometown) and get Arroyo back, and maybe some magic beans. *shrug*

/I really hate this ownership group
//don't give me that, "they got you two WS championships" crap either
///they are scumbags


No real room on cincy. They've got a pretty good 1b, I hear, and rolen's probably about as good as youk.

Cleveland was an interesting target, though. Same state at least.
 
2012-06-25 12:47:54 AM  

Kevin72: Kevin Youlilis is a good man and a good ball player and I wish him well.


Can't argue about his skills, but he just came off as a whiny douche in interviews. I thought it was just me, but after seeing the reaction on Sam Horn today,a lot of Sox fans grew tired of his attitude too.

/Pedo gets a pass for now I guess, since he can still play at a high level.
 
2012-06-25 01:12:54 AM  
Kenny likes 'em old. Glad to have him though, and Boston's lucky to get Lillibridge. Sad to see him go.
 
2012-06-25 01:19:08 AM  

spacemanjones: Thanks Kenny.


i787.photobucket.com

"You're welcome, motherf*cker."
 
2012-06-25 02:35:43 AM  

skoobx: My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.


I know your pain. Alex Rios five years ago for myself. A D'arcy Tucker jersey for my brother in '06. I won a free Mat Stajan jersey in '04 and only considered getting it re-lettered for Nikolai Kulemin two years ago. Then there was the Luke Schenn tee-shirt I got made....
 
2012-06-25 03:14:32 AM  
Great. He'll have more opportunities to think twice about charging Porcello. Maybe this time he wont make a jackass of himself.

He probably will, but maybe not.
 
2012-06-25 03:26:39 AM  
I like this video of Youk getting an ovation as he goes to the dugout, and the announcers are like "WTF is a-going on here?" Youkilis had an issue where he would get emotional after making an out or whatever (that's one reason I heard he and Manny got into that fight years ago) but he is a great player. Sad to see him go.


And as for the guy wondering what Red Sox Jersey to get next to fulfill his curse ability: get a Bobby Valentine jersey. I wouldn't mind seeing him gone after one year.

 
2012-06-25 06:21:04 AM  

Kevin72: Kevin Youlilis is a good man and a good ball player and I wish him well.

 
2012-06-25 07:27:39 AM  

DeWayne Mann: Yay, a thread!

Is this is the first CLEAR WIN trade Kenny Williams has ever made? Or am I forgetting something?


You are forgetting that Youk has fallen off a cliff and that there are no longer comp picks for free agents like him.
 
2012-06-25 07:43:36 AM  

skoobx: My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.


I bought a Gehrig jersey. And now he's dead and a disease is named after him. :(
 
2012-06-25 07:47:22 AM  
I was at the game yesterday. Awesome moment with Youk getting that triple (a very generous call) and then coming out of the game. Everyone in the place knew even though it hadn't been announced. I'm sad to see him go.
 
2012-06-25 08:35:18 AM  
Zach Stewart was a top 5 Jays prospect on his way up through the minors but he has not been good at all at the major league level. It's possible he'll figure something out, but right now he's a below average reliever.
 
Slu
2012-06-25 08:51:37 AM  

december: Zach Stewart was a top 5 Jays prospect on his way up through the minors but he has not been good at all at the major league level. It's possible he'll figure something out, but right now he's a below average reliever.


Seems like a fair trade then because right now Youk is a below average hitter.
 
2012-06-25 09:14:56 AM  

Slu: december: Zach Stewart was a top 5 Jays prospect on his way up through the minors but he has not been good at all at the major league level. It's possible he'll figure something out, but right now he's a below average reliever.

Seems like a fair trade then because right now Youk is a below average hitter.


For 165 PA. He's 33, not 43.

He has a career OBP of .388, has hit with ~20 HR power, plays excellent 1B or passable 3B. He got top-10 consideration for MVP in 2008 and 2009. He's still valuable.

Chicago will have to pay him $1.1M for the remainder of the year, then either pick up his 2013 option ($13M) or buy it out for $1M. They're only committed to $2.1M.

To date, the most played 3B for the White Sox has been Brent Morel, who has hit .177/.225/.195 after a thoroughly mediocre rookie season. They've also played Orlando Hudson there for 28 games. In related news, Orlando Hudson still plays baseball.

Youkilis is a huge upgrade for them, and they got him for $2.1M and two barely-prospects. This is a steal, forced on Boston because of the poor relationship he had with the team.
 
2012-06-25 09:27:26 AM  

Witchyman: Kevin72: Kevin Youlilis is a good man and a good ball player and I wish him well.

 
2012-06-25 09:27:43 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: skoobx: My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.

I bought a Gehrig jersey. And now he's dead and a disease is named after him. :(

Hey, check this out. Lou Gehrig's pants. Not a bad fit. Hey, you don't
think that nerve disease of his was contagious, do you? Uh, I better take 'emoff. I'm too important to this team. Big Stein can't be flopping and twitching.


I was never a big fan of his but I wish Youk the best of luck.
 
2012-06-25 09:41:46 AM  

skoobx: My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.


Quick, go buy a John Lackey jersey!
 
2012-06-25 09:44:06 AM  

Captain Kickass: skoobx: My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.

Quick, go buy a John Lackey jersey!


Lol. That's what I said on facebook.
 
2012-06-25 09:46:47 AM  

DeWayne Mann: ongbok: I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.

Well, they didn't WANT to trade him to the AL. But the Pirates, Braves and D-backs all dropped out. That left the Dodgers, and I haven't heard anything about who they might have been offering. Might've been nothing.

And they pretty much had to trade him. Especially after all the stuff that happened Saturday.


I think the Dodgers are saving their trade assets to go after pitching. They're rumored to want either Garza or Dempster from the Cubs.
 
2012-06-25 09:47:57 AM  

ongbok: I thought that this deal was dead because the Red Sox didn't want to trade him to an American League team.


No worries...since the Red Sox won't make the post season this deal won't come back to bite them in ass if they did, only to lose to the White Sox.
 
2012-06-25 09:55:20 AM  
The first part of the "I win because I'm angry" duo sell-off is done.
Pedroia had better be gone soon, too.

/Beckett can go. Even though he's not always angry, he doesn't win.
 
Slu
2012-06-25 10:07:12 AM  

chimp_ninja: Slu: december: Zach Stewart was a top 5 Jays prospect on his way up through the minors but he has not been good at all at the major league level. It's possible he'll figure something out, but right now he's a below average reliever.

Seems like a fair trade then because right now Youk is a below average hitter.

For 165 PA. He's 33, not 43.

He has a career OBP of .388, has hit with ~20 HR power, plays excellent 1B or passable 3B. He got top-10 consideration for MVP in 2008 and 2009. He's still valuable.

Chicago will have to pay him $1.1M for the remainder of the year, then either pick up his 2013 option ($13M) or buy it out for $1M. They're only committed to $2.1M.

To date, the most played 3B for the White Sox has been Brent Morel, who has hit .177/.225/.195 after a thoroughly mediocre rookie season. They've also played Orlando Hudson there for 28 games. In related news, Orlando Hudson still plays baseball.

Youkilis is a huge upgrade for them, and they got him for $2.1M and two barely-prospects. This is a steal, forced on Boston because of the poor relationship he had with the team.


I agree that they got him for essentially nothing. I agree that he is an upgrade for what they have now, so it was worth a shot for the White Sox. Where we disagree is in Youk's future value. I think he is better than he is now, but I think MVP caliber Youk is a memory. I think he can be league average at the plate though, which would be a win for the White Sox.
 
2012-06-25 10:08:34 AM  

skoobx: My jersey curse continues. 2003, I buy a Nomar jersey. 2010, I buy a Papelbon jersey for my wife. Four years ago my wife buys me an official mlb Youklis jersey.


The others I can see, but four years out of a jersey really isn't that horrible.
 
2012-06-25 11:37:36 AM  

skinink: And as for the guy wondering what Red Sox Jersey to get next to fulfill his curse ability: get a Bobby Valentine jersey. I wouldn't mind seeing him gone after one year.


YES PLEASE

You're the jerk... jerk: You are forgetting that Youk has fallen off a cliff and that there are no longer comp picks for free agents like him.


Well, they could get a comp pick....next year. Just need to pick up the option, then offer him $15mil at the end of 2013.

But you're just asking for some math now. Semi-copying off myself in the Moyer thread:

Youk's best offensive season, arguably, was 2010. Here's his batted ball profile:

16.3% LD, 37% GB, 46.7% FB, .327 BABIP

Here's his batted ball profile THIS year:

20.4% LD, 50% GB, 29.6% FB, .288 BABIP

It's very, very unusual to see a LD% go up, yet the BABIP drops 40 points. While the rise in ground balls might be a cause for worry, you would expect it to result in more singles and fewer HRs, not significantly fewer hits all around. Note that you can still be a HR hitter with GB% that high: Robinson Cano's career rate is 48.3 and I hear he's pretty good.

So already, it looks like a bad bit of luck. But you might say "hey, his walk rate is down too!" Which, hey, true. But let's look at his plate discipline, from PitchF/X:

In 2010, he swung at 20.8% of pitches out of the zone, and made contact with 77.8% of those swings. He swung at 53.1% of pitches in the zone, and made contact with 90.1% of his swings.

This year, he's swung at 16.4% of pitches out the zone, and made contact with 57.9%. He's swung at 53.9% in the zone, and made contact with 87.1%.

His discipline is arguably better: he swings at balls less, and swings at strikes a smidge more. He's just making a bit less contact. Which we'd expect: he's 33.

So going forward, unless the White Sox try to "fix" him, I'd expect a walk rate closer to career, a slightly higher K rate, BA & OBP roughly as good as career, and a lower SLG tan career. With that in mind, here's his Rest of Season ZiPS projection, which actually seems a bit pessimistic to me:

11.6 BB% (12.4 career) 19.8 K% (18.3 career), .302 BABIP (which is the pessimistic part...closer to .320 seems more likely to me), .262/.364/.466 (vs .287/.388/.487 career)

Even if they're right and I'm wrong...that's a pretty dang good player considering he cost $2 mil and 2 crappy players.

december: Zach Stewart was a top 5 Jays prospect on his way up through the minors but he has not been good at all at the major league level. It's possible he'll figure something out, but right now he's a below average reliever.


A lot of Stewart's major league problems have been luck related. In 2011, he had a .357 BABIP. This year, he's allowing HRs on 26.3% of flyballs. Neither of those make a lot of sense.

But even so, he seems pretty much expendable. The Red Sox will 'fix' him in the minors, and he'll come up, and maybe be a bit better than average. The end.
 
2012-06-25 11:54:29 AM  

DeWayne Mann: Even if they're right and I'm wrong...that's a pretty dang good player considering he cost $2 mil and 2 crappy players.


The comp system has changed, it would be very strange for them to get a pick from Youk in 2 years (they would have to offer arbitration, he would have to decline then he would have to sign for a certain amount).

Your facts are mostly right (a high GB rate for is bad for a slow guy, the dropping fly ball rate means no more power, etc) but I refuse to believe that Kenny Williams would ever win a trade.
 
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