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(Yahoo)   Several thousand future inmates protest Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Tent City Jail complex   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 102
    More: Fail, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, naturalized citizen, La Raza, Maricopa County, United States Department of Justice, umbrella organization, cry babies, jail  
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9712 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2012 at 12:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-24 01:21:38 PM

Bathia_Mapes: I agree jail isn't supposed to be fun, but Arpiao is mistreating inmates.




the most recent death in one of Sheriff Joe's jail

ast Friday, six months after Atencio was buried with full military honors, the Maricopa County medical examiner released an unusual autopsy report that paints a horrifying picture of his last hours.

Atencio's cause of death was tied to "complications of cardiac arrest" due to "acute psychosis, law enforcement subdual and multiple medical problems," wrote the medical examiner, Mark Fischione. The medical examiner didn't specify whether Atencio died of natural causes or was killed by the officers.

Atencio is at least the 12th inmate to die under strange circumstances in the Maricopa County jail system. (The Phoenix New Times lists 11 other such cases here.) And listing "law enforcement subdual" as one cause of death, according to former Maricopa County chief prosecutor Rick Romley, is particularly unusual because it could implicate law enforcement in Atencio's death.

The former soldier's allegedly rough treatment by officers at Arpaio's infamous Fourth Avenue jail in Phoenix was caught on routine jail video tape. By then, Atencio had been in police custody for over four hours and had been showing signs of "acute psychosis," the medical examiner reports. The video appears to show burly officers from Phoenix and Maricopa County piling on Atencio, apparently after he said something, though exactly what remains unclear because jail cameras don't record audio.




and of course, the families inevitably sue, and the cases are as far as i can tell, ALWAYS RESOLVED VIA SETTLEMENT TO AVOID TRIAL.

and maricopa county taxpayers foot the bill.

sometime i wonder why i live in this backwards ass fark of a burg.
 
2012-06-24 01:24:03 PM

LikeALeafOnTheWind: RibbyK: skinink: It seems like he will never leave his position unless he dies. But it seems like the majority of voters in that area want him as Sheriff, so I don't see what the problem is. Are many of those protesters actually registered to vote? I can't understand why one of the most controversial officials in the U.S. hasn't been voted out yet.

You've answered your own question there. Majority of voters, how does it work?
it works a little weird when a majority of that majority dont even live in the area for most of the year. A lot of Arpaio supporters only live here Nov to March.


Yet you can be assured they claim AZ as their year round residence for tax purposes! This sort of thing isn't unique to AZ and Maricopa Co either. Every place that I've been to that has a Sun City type retirement community has local non-retired people complaining about the retirees voting as a block in "fark you got mine" fashion on everything.
 
2012-06-24 01:30:16 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Psychomancer: I work for a different Arizona law enforcement agency and beleive that Arpiao is wrong most of the time and that he is too old to remain sheriff, but tent city is one of his good ideas that actually works. The tents are no different that those our service men and women live in in Afghanistan. During the day, the inmates can go into the air conditioned day room. Jail is not supposed to be fun.

Since you work in law enforcement, I suppose I don't need to remind you that the majority of jail inmates have yet to be convicted of a crime and that some are still awaiting their initial court appearance.

I agree jail isn't supposed to be fun, but Arpiao is mistreating inmates.


The pre-trail/pre-sentence inmates aren't housed in the tents, so your point is kind of invalid. And your belief that most of the jailed inmates are pre-trail or pre-sentence is also wrong.
 
2012-06-24 01:32:40 PM

kd8our: If there is a single person that I would breath a sign of relief if I heard about their assassination it would be old joe.


Funny that the older generations biatched about a tiny wall in Berlin. Now they want to build miles of fences and put people in camps. Funny how things work.


Because Terrorist.
 
2012-06-24 01:33:22 PM

Turbo Cojones: diaphoresis: You know what scares me about tent city? People live in AZ and commit crimes KNOWING tent city exists.

Personally, I would have thought having a 'tent city' would be a deterrent to committing crimes in AZ. Obviously, there are an excessive amount of stupid criminals (redundancy intended) living in AZ. If I ever had to live in tent city, then got out, I would make DAMN sure I would commit crimes in some other state.

Hmmmmmm...The term "jail" actually means a place where folks convicted of misdemeanors are warehoused, but it is also a place for folks awaiting trial.

Let's have a laugh and suppose for a second that Joe really believes in the phrase "innocent until proven guilty". He is, after all, practically a super-hero when it comes to making sure Obama's qualifications are constitutionally valid. Why would he put innocent people in a tent city in AZ in the summer?

REAL criminals get A/C.


See my above comment. There are no non-convicted people in the tents.

Also, felons often serve jail terms as part of their probation grants.


Generally it helps to know your facts before you post fallacies.
 
2012-06-24 01:35:07 PM
On the one hand, I don't really care if prisoners live in tents or wear pink underwear. It's not inhumane.
On the other hand, "Sheriff Joe" seems to be a control-freak douchebag.
I need someone intelligent and unbiased to sort this out for me.
 
2012-06-24 01:35:12 PM

Turbo Cojones: Lost Thought 00:

Many of the people living in the "tent city" have been convicted of no crime.

Damn you and your legal mumbo-jumbo!


More like damn you and your fallacy.
 
2012-06-24 01:35:49 PM

A. Snatchfold: RibbyK: LikeALeafOnTheWind: I have huge problems with Sheriff Joe. Hes my sheriff, and i get to vote against him.. which i do. Count me in the anyone but Joe camp.. but my problems with him aren't with how he runs the jail. Im totally fine with the tents, the pink undies, the baloney sandwiches.. all thats fine. I think its not much more than theater, but its fine. My problem with Sheriff Joe is that hes an attention whore who spends more time concocting ways to get on TV than he does doing his job. We don't need a celebrity sheriff. Also, hes completely corrupt, he uses county resources to go after political opponents, and its not even subtle he does it right out in the open, cause he knows he has the vote of all the blue hairs and old dudes. Ill be happy the day he kicks the bucket.. cant be too far away now.. hes what? 80? and that seems to be the only way we will get rid of him.

If you change "Sheriff Joe" to "Obama" and "blue hairs and old dudes" to "naive youngsters", you'd expand your argument to the national level.

And have an entirely false equivalent.


Yep, exactly my point, making a false counterclaim to a false claim, reductio ad absurdum.
 
2012-06-24 01:35:50 PM
It will be interesting to see how this whole Arpaio thing shakes out. When the Feds make their judgement against him and call for him to turn himself in to the authorities and be hauled off to Federal prison, will there be a big standoff between the yokel police and the feds?

A kind of grand Waco, Texas style standoff like we had a few years back with the Branch Davidians? A states rights-style constitutional crisis firefight between the City of Phoenix Municipal Police Department versus the 2nd Division's 4th Stryker Brigade would make for some good entertainment.

Either way, Joseph Mussalini Arpaio will be behind bars for his crimes soon enough.
 
2012-06-24 01:36:30 PM
I'm not an American, so forgive me if I get this wrong, but I think most people would describe this a concentration camp.

Do I have that right?
 
2012-06-24 01:39:32 PM
Joe Arpayaso
 
2012-06-24 01:40:16 PM

gaslight: I'm not an American, so forgive me if I get this wrong, but I think most people would describe this a concentration camp.

Do I have that right?




No, you see, if it was done by Germans during the 1940s, its called a "concentration camp". If its done by Americans, its called a "prison camp".

Get with the program, son.
 
2012-06-24 01:46:46 PM

gaslight: I'm not an American, so forgive me if I get this wrong, but I think most people would describe this a concentration camp. Do I have that right?


Careful or you ain't gonna get a visa to see the Grand Canyon.
/Too bad, cuz it's in Arizona and really, really cool, especially the North Rim.
 
2012-06-24 01:50:21 PM
While i may agree with the idea I know from my time in the marines a tent city prison is difficult -almost- impossible to provide protection for your prisoners from each other
 
2012-06-24 01:54:53 PM
A lot of the protesters are UUs. Awesome! Love them. Was one up until recently.
 
2012-06-24 01:59:17 PM

4 lives down 5 to go: While i may agree with the idea I know from my time in the marines a tent city prison is difficult -almost- impossible to provide protection for your prisoners from each other


The danger comes from the guards and Joe. Hes a farkup.

And morons vote for him. Hes wasted millions if not tens or hundreds of millions of dollars from abuse, settlements, and corruption.

Throw his ass in prison where he belongs.
 
2012-06-24 02:00:38 PM

gaslight: I'm not an American, so forgive me if I get this wrong, but I think most people would describe this a concentration camp.

Do I have that right?


Arpaio already called it a concentration camp (skip to 2:30 for that comment if you like). He denied saying it at all even though it was caught on video.
 
2012-06-24 02:12:20 PM

diaphoresis: You know what scares me about tent city? People live in AZ and commit crimes KNOWING tent city exists.

Personally, I would have thought having a 'tent city' would be a deterrent to committing crimes in AZ. Obviously, there are an excessive amount of stupid criminals (redundancy intended) living in AZ. If I ever had to live in tent city, then got out, I would make DAMN sure I would commit crimes in some other state.


it's really not fair that many people suffer all their lives because they were born thick as a brick. eugenics would help eliminate this unwanted trend and make for a better society overall. if you're going to spend your life in prison you're better off skipping the life cycle to begin with.

-- and why is Sheriff Joe still walking around a free man? Seems Uncle Sam's little crews have been over to rip apart his offices more than once. Surely the Forensics Accounting people have found something on him. I'd bet they have, but they get too much highly polished wood watching him treat humans like poverty stricken homeless animals to usurp him from the fatarse throne.
 
2012-06-24 02:16:00 PM

Azlefty: diaphoresis: You know what scares me about tent city? People live in AZ and commit crimes KNOWING tent city exists.

Actually they are thinking "Well if Joe can commit crimes and the people love him, they will love me to!" They forget that they are not some senile white guy with a gun , badge, and a haterd for the Constitution going "It's them messsicans!"


LOL logic is certainly not wasted on you. You are a racist. He was talking about prevention/recidivism and watching a grown man shiat 2 feet from your head.
 
2012-06-24 02:17:53 PM

Psychomancer: I work for a different Arizona law enforcement agency and beleive that Arpiao is wrong most of the time and that he is too old to remain sheriff, but tent city is one of his good ideas that actually works. The tents are no different that those our service men and women live in in Afghanistan. During the day, the inmates can go into the air conditioned day room. Jail is not supposed to be fun.


The fark is wrong with you people?

They are TENTS in the DESERT.

It doesn't farking MATTER if the US military also sleeps in tents in the desert. You don't sentence people to be in the f*cking army. I've been in tents in the high heat of summer, as I was in the military using those same goddamn tents you cite. Forcibly confining someone to one is torture. I am not being facetious, I am not exaggerating, it is torture. So shut the fark up, show me what a tough you guy are and videotape yourself spending time in a 130+ degree tent.
 
2012-06-24 02:18:27 PM

RibbyK: skinink: It seems like he will never leave his position unless he dies. But it seems like the majority of voters in that area want him as Sheriff, so I don't see what the problem is. Are many of those protesters actually registered to vote? I can't understand why one of the most controversial officials in the U.S. hasn't been voted out yet.

You've answered your own question there. Majority of voters, how does it work?


Yea, I know my answer was there smartass. Since you missed the point I'll state it:if they want him out, vote him out. I think he's a bad sheriff and I myself am amazed the majority keep voting a bad person in.
 
2012-06-24 02:21:53 PM

skinink: RibbyK: skinink: It seems like he will never leave his position unless he dies. But it seems like the majority of voters in that area want him as Sheriff, so I don't see what the problem is. Are many of those protesters actually registered to vote? I can't understand why one of the most controversial officials in the U.S. hasn't been voted out yet.

You've answered your own question there. Majority of voters, how does it work?

Yea, I know my answer was there smartass. Since you missed the point I'll state it:if they want him out, vote him out. I think he's a bad sheriff and I myself am amazed the majority keep voting a bad person in.


That's not the way shiat works, dumbass. Does the phrase "Tyranny of the majority" mean anything to you?
 
2012-06-24 02:39:39 PM
130 degrees.... I would rather die. So, if the crime is worthy of the death sentence, just give them the death sentence.

fark torture. We're past that, aren't we?
 
2012-06-24 02:42:10 PM

skinink: if they want him out, vote him out. I think he's a bad sheriff and I myself am amazed the majority keep voting a bad person in.



Well, it just says something about the electorate in Arizona.
 
2012-06-24 02:43:32 PM

LavenderWolf: Psychomancer: I work for a different Arizona law enforcement agency and beleive that Arpiao is wrong most of the time and that he is too old to remain sheriff, but tent city is one of his good ideas that actually works. The tents are no different that those our service men and women live in in Afghanistan. During the day, the inmates can go into the air conditioned day room. Jail is not supposed to be fun.

The fark is wrong with you people?

They are TENTS in the DESERT.

It doesn't farking MATTER if the US military also sleeps in tents in the desert. You don't sentence people to be in the f*cking army. I've been in tents in the high heat of summer, as I was in the military using those same goddamn tents you cite. Forcibly confining someone to one is torture. I am not being facetious, I am not exaggerating, it is torture. So shut the fark up, show me what a tough you guy are and videotape yourself spending time in a 130+ degree tent.


Well maybe if we brutalize prisoners and treat them like useless animals, they will man up and in no way have any psychological problems or end up going back to prison again!

We have a sort of Brother's Grimm "You hose up once, you're damned forever." mindset in the US. Things such as speeding, littering and possession of weed could carry much larger prison sentences and basically brand you as a failure to society. Rehabilitation would help get them back on track and put it behind them, but that's considered being nice to prisoners and that's a bad thing if we can't have our future Hunger Games scenario with them.
 
2012-06-24 02:53:10 PM
Maximum Trolling... lol


s13.postimage.org

Maricopa County Jail modification

33.427713°N 112.123775°W

Prior to the election of Sheriff Joe Arpaio in 1993, the prisoner population in Maricopa County Jail, Arizona, the 4th largest jail system in the world,[37] exceeded the maximum number of inmates allowed in its facilities. Prisoners were routinely released from custody prior to completing their sentence due to the overcrowding. In a study conducted in 1993 it was estimated that construction of a new facility would cost approximately $70,000,000.[citation needed] Sheriff Arpaio, concerned about the cost of a new facility and reasoning that military tents were good enough for the men and women of the U.S. armed forces who fought in the Gulf War, ordered that a tent jail be constructed utilizing inmate labor.[38] It consisted of Korean War-era tents donated by the United States armed forces, and a 50 ft (15.4 m) observation tower with a vacancy sign mounted on the front. The final cost of the project was approximately $100,000 and it is capable of housing over 2,400 inmates.
 
2012-06-24 02:55:47 PM
Nothing will be solved by Joe dying, because he's a symptom, not the cause.

The real source of trouble in Maricopa for the foreseeable future can be more accurately blamed on 'Fossil Panic'. You have an artificially pumped up population of out-of-state seniors who bring all their requisite baggage, outmoded racism and 'new-guy' insecurity. Add on some ego issues that come from fears of becoming irrelevant with age. So they flex their political and financial muscle and vote for anybody - anybody - who will faithfully shoehorn their skewed and innapropriate viewpoints into everything, logic and ethics be damned.

None of that will go away with Sherrif Joe when he dies. They'll just find someone else like him to vote for, probably someone even worse. Once the Boomer generation dies off to a point where they lose enough influence, only then will change finally come.
 
2012-06-24 03:12:37 PM

snoproblem: Nothing will be solved by Joe dying, because he's a symptom, not the cause.

The real source of trouble in Maricopa for the foreseeable future can be more accurately blamed on 'Fossil Panic'. You have an artificially pumped up population of out-of-state seniors who bring all their requisite baggage, outmoded racism and 'new-guy' insecurity. Add on some ego issues that come from fears of becoming irrelevant with age. So they flex their political and financial muscle and vote for anybody - anybody - who will faithfully shoehorn their skewed and innapropriate viewpoints into everything, logic and ethics be damned.

None of that will go away with Sherrif Joe when he dies. They'll just find someone else like him to vote for, probably someone even worse. Once the Boomer generation dies off to a point where they lose enough influence, only then will change finally come.


You raise some good points and I agree that Joe is essentially a product of fear and ignorance.
What you *won't* see after his reign is this level of arrogance and flat out abuse of power in that office. Not for awhile, anyway.
You seem smart enough to not make me expound on that.
 
2012-06-24 03:27:59 PM

Goodfella: It will be interesting to see how this whole Arpaio thing shakes out. When the Feds make their judgement against him and call for him to turn himself in to the authorities and be hauled off to Federal prison, will there be a big standoff between the yokel police and the feds?

A kind of grand Waco, Texas style standoff like we had a few years back with the Branch Davidians? A states rights-style constitutional crisis firefight between the City of Phoenix Municipal Police Department versus the 2nd Division's 4th Stryker Brigade would make for some good entertainment.

Either way, Joseph Mussalini Arpaio will be behind bars for his crimes soon enough.


DPS has been tired of his shiat for quite some time. I don't think they'd hesitate if the fed said "yeah go get that dipstick."
Alzheimer governor aside.
 
2012-06-24 03:36:00 PM
I love people who say that "jail is supposed to be rough" without seeming to realize that America jails a much higher number of people than the rest of the world, and has a bad issue with repeat offenders.

We might be doing something wrong.

/look at prisons in Norway and you tell me
//Sheriff Joe doesn't give a crap about the law
 
2012-06-24 04:39:39 PM

Ringshadow: I love people who say that "jail is supposed to be rough" without seeming to realize that America jails a much higher number of people than the rest of the world, and has a bad issue with repeat offenders.

We might be doing something wrong.

/look at prisons in Norway and you tell me
//Sheriff Joe doesn't give a crap about the law


Yes we should follow Norway: Norway prison seeks 'friends' to play hockey, chess with mass killer Breivik
 
2012-06-24 04:43:29 PM

LavenderWolf: Psychomancer: I work for a different Arizona law enforcement agency and beleive that Arpiao is wrong most of the time and that he is too old to remain sheriff, but tent city is one of his good ideas that actually works. The tents are no different that those our service men and women live in in Afghanistan. During the day, the inmates can go into the air conditioned day room. Jail is not supposed to be fun.

The fark is wrong with you people?

They are TENTS in the DESERT.

It doesn't farking MATTER if the US military also sleeps in tents in the desert. You don't sentence people to be in the f*cking army. I've been in tents in the high heat of summer, as I was in the military using those same goddamn tents you cite. Forcibly confining someone to one is torture. I am not being facetious, I am not exaggerating, it is torture. So shut the fark up, show me what a tough you guy are and videotape yourself spending time in a 130+ degree tent.


I guess that there was an awful lot of torture going on in Arizona jails and prisons prior to the advent of air conditioning.

Not having A/C for prisoners is TORTURE! WAAAAAA!
 
2012-06-24 05:18:08 PM

Ringshadow: I love people who say that "jail is supposed to be rough" without seeming to realize that America jails a much higher number of people than the rest of the world, and has a bad issue with repeat offenders.

We might be doing something wrong.

/look at prisons in Norway and you tell me
//Sheriff Joe doesn't give a crap about the law


It's not a Justice System.
It's a REVENGE system, where the powerful who make the laws "avenge" those who they see as challenging their precious laws, because, to them, it's an insult.
And the senile idiots who think this is a good thing and continue to vote that way.
 
2012-06-24 05:26:50 PM
Maybe if we could trade with our brown skined neighbors for some good law abiding citizens in exchange for these village idiot protesters , we wouldn't need tent city at all .
 
2012-06-24 05:47:37 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: Ringshadow: I love people who say that "jail is supposed to be rough" without seeming to realize that America jails a much higher number of people than the rest of the world, and has a bad issue with repeat offenders.

We might be doing something wrong.

/look at prisons in Norway and you tell me
//Sheriff Joe doesn't give a crap about the law

It's not a Justice System.
It's a REVENGE system, where the powerful who make the laws "avenge" those who they see as challenging their precious laws, because, to them, it's an insult.
And the senile idiots who think this is a good thing and continue to vote that way.


I'm not of the mind that our current system is anywhere near ideal, but what would your alternative system be?
 
2012-06-24 05:56:42 PM

skinink: RibbyK: skinink: It seems like he will never leave his position unless he dies. But it seems like the majority of voters in that area want him as Sheriff, so I don't see what the problem is. Are many of those protesters actually registered to vote? I can't understand why one of the most controversial officials in the U.S. hasn't been voted out yet.

You've answered your own question there. Majority of voters, how does it work?

Yea, I know my answer was there smartass. Since you missed the point I'll state it:if they want him out, vote him out. I think he's a bad sheriff and I myself am amazed the majority keep voting a bad person in.


Ad hominem attacks, the first and last choice of the liberal strategy. It took you two posts to get there, an impressive display of restraint. Whom shall we personally bash next, Romney? Bush?
 
2012-06-24 06:42:16 PM

RibbyK: skinink: RibbyK: skinink: It seems like he will never leave his position unless he dies. But it seems like the majority of voters in that area want him as Sheriff, so I don't see what the problem is. Are many of those protesters actually registered to vote? I can't understand why one of the most controversial officials in the U.S. hasn't been voted out yet.

You've answered your own question there. Majority of voters, how does it work?

Yea, I know my answer was there smartass. Since you missed the point I'll state it:if they want him out, vote him out. I think he's a bad sheriff and I myself am amazed the majority keep voting a bad person in.

Ad hominem attacks, the first and last choice of the liberal strategy. It took you two posts to get there, an impressive display of restraint. Whom shall we personally bash next, Romney? Bush?


If it took two posts, then it wasn't really his first choice of a strategy now was it?
 
2012-06-24 06:59:43 PM
I'm kind of conflicted on this one.

On the one hand, Arpaio is a giant D-bag of the first order.

On the other hand, it's a bunch of tents people. It's not effing Dachau, get a grip.

Can I just hate everyone?
 
2012-06-24 08:19:41 PM

painless42: I'm kind of conflicted on this one.

On the one hand, Arpaio is a giant D-bag of the first order.

On the other hand, it's a bunch of tents people. It's not effing Dachau, get a grip.

Can I just hate everyone?


You can hate anyone you want. It's not just tent city, though. The man is a paranoid, power-hungry tyrant.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arpaio /target/

Sorry for not linking on this phone, but it's worth a look.
 
2012-06-24 08:35:07 PM

diaphoresis: You know what scares me about tent city? People live in AZ and commit crimes KNOWING tent city exists.


Arpaio has always made a point of visiting the inmates and telling them that the purpose of the tent city is to give them incentive to straighten up and not come back. He tells them plainly that if they don't want to be there then they need to stop breaking the law. He has been very explicit about this.

Why they keep committing crimes while knowing they could wind up in the tent city...?

"I don't know. I guess crime just makes you stupid." -- Frank Pembleton
 
2012-06-24 08:40:55 PM

diaphoresis: You know what scares me about tent city? People live in AZ and commit crimes KNOWING tent city exists.

Personally, I would have thought having a 'tent city' would be a deterrent to committing crimes in AZ. Obviously, there are an excessive amount of stupid criminals (redundancy intended) living in AZ. If I ever had to live in tent city, then got out, I would make DAMN sure I would commit crimes in some other state.


Well, obviously that's why they need a tent city.
 
2012-06-24 11:39:49 PM

jim32rr: Ringshadow: I love people who say that "jail is supposed to be rough" without seeming to realize that America jails a much higher number of people than the rest of the world, and has a bad issue with repeat offenders.

We might be doing something wrong.

/look at prisons in Norway and you tell me
//Sheriff Joe doesn't give a crap about the law

Yes we should follow Norway: Norway prison seeks 'friends' to play hockey, chess with mass killer Breivik


They also have a much lower rate of repeat offenders.
 
2012-06-24 11:57:36 PM

kg2095: jim32rr: Ringshadow: I love people who say that "jail is supposed to be rough" without seeming to realize that America jails a much higher number of people than the rest of the world, and has a bad issue with repeat offenders.

We might be doing something wrong.

/look at prisons in Norway and you tell me
//Sheriff Joe doesn't give a crap about the law

Yes we should follow Norway: Norway prison seeks 'friends' to play hockey, chess with mass killer Breivik

They also have a much lower rate of repeat offenders.


Here's a cite for that:

Link

The recidivism rate for prisoners in Norway is around 20 percent. Meanwhile, it's estimated that 67 percent of America's prisoners are re-arrested and 52 percent are re-incarcerated.

In 2009, Norway had .6 intentional homicides per 100,000 people. In the same year, the United States had 5 murders per 100,000 people, meaning that the U.S. proportionally has 8 times as many homicides.


That figure for Norway has a decimal point in front of it, so 0.6 compared to 5.0 for the US.

71 out of every 100,000 Norwegian citizens is incarcerated. In the United States, 743 out of every 100,000 citizens was incarcerated in 2009. The U.S. has the world's highest incarceration rate.

This points to a criminal justice system in the US that just does not work. It seems to be set up simply to take revenge on those who break the law without any thought for how to break the chain of crime, prison, crime, etc.

I have heard someone on a documentary once suggest that the US has more crime because it has more ethnic minorities than other countries. But that is demonstrably incorrect - Europe in general, including Norway is very ethnically and racially diverse. In fact that terrorist dickhead in Norway stated that his motivation for his atrocities was what he perceived as the Islamification of Norway.
 
2012-06-25 02:42:35 AM

kg2095: Norway is very ethnically and racially diverse


Norway
Norwegian 94.4% (ncludes Sami, about 60,000), other European 3.6%, other 2% (2007 estimate)

USA
White Americans are the racial majority, with an 72% share of the U.S. population. Hispanic and Latino Americans compose 15% of the population. Black Americans composing nearly 13% of the population.
 
2012-06-25 09:40:06 AM
Right because jails are not for punnishment right jack nuggets? farking retards. Quit protesting in support of thugs and criminals and get a farking job.
 
2012-06-25 09:48:05 AM
FTA:The jail complex in west Phoenix was the site of a January 2010 protest that drew 10,000 immigrant rights advocates and was marked by a clash between a small group of protesters and police officers.

Why does the media play along with this falacy? No one has a problem with immigrants, the problem is with ILLEGAL immigrants. With people this stupid they are in the right field of work, true journalism is dead.
 
2012-06-25 12:26:47 PM
There isn't much I agree with Sheriff Joe on, but I do like the idea of his tent city jail. Unfortunately most of the inmates will probably be there for minor drug offenses that I don't think should be crimes in the first place.
 
2012-06-25 01:06:21 PM

kg2095: kg2095: jim32rr: Ringshadow: I love people who say that "jail is supposed to be rough" without seeming to realize that America jails a much higher number of people than the rest of the world, and has a bad issue with repeat offenders.

We might be doing something wrong.

/look at prisons in Norway and you tell me
//Sheriff Joe doesn't give a crap about the law

Yes we should follow Norway: Norway prison seeks 'friends' to play hockey, chess with mass killer Breivik

They also have a much lower rate of repeat offenders.

Here's a cite for that:

Link

The recidivism rate for prisoners in Norway is around 20 percent. Meanwhile, it's estimated that 67 percent of America's prisoners are re-arrested and 52 percent are re-incarcerated.

In 2009, Norway had .6 intentional homicides per 100,000 people. In the same year, the United States had 5 murders per 100,000 people, meaning that the U.S. proportionally has 8 times as many homicides.

That figure for Norway has a decimal point in front of it, so 0.6 compared to 5.0 for the US.

71 out of every 100,000 Norwegian citizens is incarcerated. In the United States, 743 out of every 100,000 citizens was incarcerated in 2009. The U.S. has the world's highest incarceration rate.

This points to a criminal justice system in the US that just does not work. It seems to be set up simply to take revenge on those who break the law without any thought for how to break the chain of crime, prison, crime, etc.

I have heard someone on a documentary once suggest that the US has more crime because it has more ethnic minorities than other countries. But that is demonstrably incorrect - Europe in general, including Norway is very ethnically and racially diverse. In fact that terrorist dickhead in Norway stated that his motivation for his atrocities was what he perceived as the Islamification of Norway.


You think that possibly the recidivism rate could also be related to other factors, like culture?

Take two catastrophic natural disasters as examples...

Hurrican Katrina - Mass looting and violence. People stealing TV's and shoes from stores and burning others.

Japanese Tsunami - People actually farking took food from their homes TO the stores so that those who didn't have any would have an opportunity to get some. People weren't out looting and rioting and causing general mayhem.

These two cultures are extremely dissimilar, so you would expect their criminal justice system, among others, to not be directly comparable. I think that you have this same phenomenon when you try to compare our system to Norway. Perhaps it's not the system, but rather the people.
 
2012-06-25 05:22:40 PM

Silly Jesus: You think that possibly the recidivism rate could also be related to other factors, like culture?

Take two catastrophic natural disasters as examples...

Hurrican Katrina - Mass looting and violence. People stealing TV's and shoes from stores and burning others.

Japanese Tsunami - People actually farking took food from their homes TO the stores so that those who didn't have any would have an opportunity to get some. People weren't out looting and rioting and causing general mayhem.



And yet you have Japanese Yakuza and the Japanese sex trade (and that is just staying in modern times).

But you are right that there is a culture gap, and it probably has to do with Japan (as well as Norway for that matter) believing in a common good and providing opportunity to all and operating a society on those premises, while the US has a wide class gap that forces confrontation between us and them. This leads to situations with looting because they aren't looting from themselves, they are looting from the other.

Interestingly it probably also isn't coincidence that both societies are more homogenous than the US, and it gets harder for people to value the common good when they are sharing it with other culture. Ultimately people are born racists and have to learn to tolerate people who are different, and many people just never learn that skill. This is a universal problem, and as more foreigners enter Scandinavian countries for example, the more those countries becomes conservative.
 
2012-06-25 10:20:09 PM

Gwyrddu: Silly Jesus: You think that possibly the recidivism rate could also be related to other factors, like culture?

Take two catastrophic natural disasters as examples...

Hurrican Katrina - Mass looting and violence. People stealing TV's and shoes from stores and burning others.

Japanese Tsunami - People actually farking took food from their homes TO the stores so that those who didn't have any would have an opportunity to get some. People weren't out looting and rioting and causing general mayhem.


And yet you have Japanese Yakuza and the Japanese sex trade (and that is just staying in modern times).

But you are right that there is a culture gap, and it probably has to do with Japan (as well as Norway for that matter) believing in a common good and providing opportunity to all and operating a society on those premises, while the US has a wide class gap that forces confrontation between us and them. This leads to situations with looting because they aren't looting from themselves, they are looting from the other.

Interestingly it probably also isn't coincidence that both societies are more homogenous than the US, and it gets harder for people to value the common good when they are sharing it with other culture. Ultimately people are born racists and have to learn to tolerate people who are different, and many people just never learn that skill. This is a universal problem, and as more foreigners enter Scandinavian countries for example, the more those countries becomes conservative.


I agree with you in general. We probably differ on the degree to which we think that society vs. the individual is responsible for their state in life. I lean more heavily toward the individual.

Interesting points though.
 
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