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(Telegram)   Result of renaming Massachusettts state "colleges" to state "universities" is more spending on marketing instead of education   (telegram.com) divider line 67
    More: Fail, Massachusettts, Worcester State, marketing, Worcester, board of trustees, look and feel, colleges  
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3450 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2012 at 10:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-24 10:05:39 AM  
Letterhead ain't cheap.
 
2012-06-24 10:11:17 AM  
Welkom to Obama's Amerika
 
2012-06-24 10:13:34 AM  
Duh.
 
2012-06-24 10:17:27 AM  
Nervous to point out the obvious spelling mistake in headline, for fear this is some meme and I'll be immediately chastened.
 
2012-06-24 10:20:42 AM  
That's what a University education is all about -- increased value.
 
2012-06-24 10:20:45 AM  
Do I need to point out that the difference between a college and a university is a matter of accreditation rather than naming?
 
2012-06-24 10:20:50 AM  
Same thing happened in Pennsylvania in the 80's. Hey Massasses...try to keep up.
 
2012-06-24 10:23:02 AM  
massachusets institute of COLLEGE.
 
2012-06-24 10:24:00 AM  
trifecta is in play here folks...
 
2012-06-24 10:26:31 AM  
At least they are using "university" correctly I suppose.
 
2012-06-24 10:29:41 AM  
Or maybe they are just becoming British
 
2012-06-24 10:32:04 AM  
Rename them all "Post High Schools." Or maybe "Young Adult Training Facilities."
 
2012-06-24 10:33:20 AM  
Wait, are you telling me that Massachusetts is behind the curve of Missouri on this one?

Missouri State University (formerly Southwest Missouri State Universtity until 2004)
University of Central Missouri (formerly Central Missouri State University until 2006)
Missouri University of Science and Technology (formerly University of Missouri-Rolla until 2008)
And my Alma Mater, Truman State University (formerly Northeast Missouri State University until 1996)

All within the course of 16 years.
 
2012-06-24 10:34:40 AM  

Snarfangel: Rename them all "Post High Schools." Or maybe "Young Adult Training Facilities."


Socialist Indoctrination Mills
 
2012-06-24 10:38:05 AM  

Shaggy_C: Snarfangel: Rename them all "Post High Schools." Or maybe "Young Adult Training Facilities."

Socialist Indoctrination Mills


Funny thing is that people actually think public schools are really like that.

Those people are idiots though.
 
2012-06-24 10:44:54 AM  
I know, change the name from College to Collage. Then they can put up fun signs like this:
www.semboa.org
 
2012-06-24 10:45:45 AM  

Shaggy_C: Snarfangel: Rename them all "Post High Schools." Or maybe "Young Adult Training Facilities."

Socialist Indoctrination Mills


Darksided holocaust camps for your skull's Satan-house.
 
2012-06-24 10:46:49 AM  
www.victorialabalme.com

/hot, baby
 
2012-06-24 10:52:37 AM  
Of all the ways to misspell Massachusetts...
 
2012-06-24 10:55:55 AM  

LDM90: Of all the ways to misspell Massachusetts...


Just be glad subby didn't spell it with dollar signs (plus a cent sign for added humor).
 
2012-06-24 10:57:05 AM  
They may as well have flushed the money down the toilet, the shameful way they squandered it to promote their self-image and make the school more attractive to parents and potential students.
 
2012-06-24 11:05:41 AM  

Snarfangel: LDM90: Of all the ways to misspell Massachusetts...

Just be glad subby didn't spell it with dollar signs (plus a cent sign for added humor).


Ma$$a¢hu$$et$
 
2012-06-24 11:12:06 AM  
That's the way we do it up here in Canada.
There are Colleges, and Universities.

A college gives you either a 2 or 3 year 'diploma'. And the studies are very specific (legal administration only for example). Equivelant to the American "Associate's Degree" I think.
Whereas the University gives you the undergrads and what not, and the studies are more nebulous (business, engineering, etc).

A smester of college is about $1,500, whereas the University is about $3,000 or so. Maybe more I dunno I haven't been in like a decade.

I went to college, and I kick myself for it every day. 2 years is a waste, and if you go 3 years, well it makes more sense to just go an extra year to a University and get a degree. That being said, college diplomas here aren't looked down upon like I am under the impression that state college diplomas in the US are.

I wonder if this trend means the US is going to the same thing?
 
2012-06-24 11:19:12 AM  
Maryland has one that apparently tries to split the difference: University of Maryland University College. Seriously, why not throw a few more synonyms in there: University of Maryland School University College Education Center School College University and Place to Learn Stuff and Get Educated and Also Get a Degree from this University College School.
 
2012-06-24 11:19:29 AM  

sure haven't: I wonder if this trend means the US is going to the same thing?


Not even a little bit. The technical line between "college" and "university" is very hazy in the US, but there is a social hierarchy that puts universities above colleges. So this sort of thing is an attempt to boost the cache of the school by changing its title (and nothing else). The predatory for-profit tech colleges and online schools are also getting into this game by branding themselves as a "university" instead.
 
2012-06-24 11:20:26 AM  

sure haven't: That's the way we do it up here in Canada.
There are Colleges, and Universities.

A college gives you either a 2 or 3 year 'diploma'. And the studies are very specific (legal administration only for example). Equivelant to the American "Associate's Degree" I think.
Whereas the University gives you the undergrads and what not, and the studies are more nebulous (business, engineering, etc).

A smester of college is about $1,500, whereas the University is about $3,000 or so. Maybe more I dunno I haven't been in like a decade.

I went to college, and I kick myself for it every day. 2 years is a waste, and if you go 3 years, well it makes more sense to just go an extra year to a University and get a degree. That being said, college diplomas here aren't looked down upon like I am under the impression that state college diplomas in the US are.

I wonder if this trend means the US is going to the same thing?


Yeah, except for where tuition gets an extra 0 just before the decimal compared to yours.
 
2012-06-24 11:20:55 AM  

MOHWowbagger: They may as well have flushed the money down the toilet, the shameful way they squandered it to promote their self-image and make the school more attractive to parents and potential students.


I don't understand why a university would be more attractive than a college. And even if that were the case, all the state colleges in Massachusetts are seeing continuous increases in applications and are over crowded anyways. I have absolutely no idea why they did this.
 
2012-06-24 11:22:39 AM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: sure haven't: I wonder if this trend means the US is going to the same thing?

Not even a little bit. The technical line between "college" and "university" is very hazy in the US, but there is a social hierarchy that puts universities above colleges. So this sort of thing is an attempt to boost the cache of the school by changing its title (and nothing else). The predatory for-profit tech colleges and online schools are also getting into this game by branding themselves as a "university" instead.


Hmm, interesting. I see commercials all the time for those tech places, and I just shudder at how many people must get suckered into that each year.

Honest question: how do you know the difference if you're a kid looking for somewhere to go? Do they all give the same degree/diploma/happy meal, and the only thing that matters where you got it?
 
2012-06-24 11:24:41 AM  
cachet, not cache. Different words.
 
2012-06-24 11:26:47 AM  

Mrtraveler01: Shaggy_C: Snarfangel: Rename them all "Post High Schools." Or maybe "Young Adult Training Facilities."

Socialist Indoctrination Mills

Funny thing is that people actually think public schools are really like that.

Those people are idiots though.


On FARK, you need not look far to find them.
 
2012-06-24 11:27:33 AM  

Xythero: I have absolutely no idea why they did this.


hubris
 
2012-06-24 11:28:53 AM  

Xythero: I don't understand why a university would be more attractive than a college.


The closest analogy I can think of is that Italians have something like five different words for "restaurant", which exist on a socially agreed-upon hierarchy ("ristorante" > "trattoria" > "hosteria" > ...). Technically there is little that separates one from another, but the name evokes a certain level of classiness.

Changing your school's title from "college" to "university" seems a bit like writing a paper and then hoping to get a better grade by printing it on resume paper.
 
2012-06-24 11:30:06 AM  
Connecticut did the same thing awhile back. Buddy of mine graduated from western connecticut state college. In the 1980's, they changed it to western connecticut state university and sent him a new parchment.

they's all fancied up now! yea buddy.
 
2012-06-24 11:35:48 AM  
I was attending Salem State when it became a university. Nothing changed except higher tuition and more expensive parking.
 
2012-06-24 11:38:11 AM  

sure haven't: Honest question: how do you know the difference if you're a kid looking for somewhere to go? Do they all give the same degree/diploma/happy meal, and the only thing that matters where you got it?


The typical break-down is (a) ~2-year associate's degree, which has very little value these days, (b) ~4-year bachelor's degree, which appears to be the minimum required education for a lot of entry-level work in this insane economy, and (c) graduate school, which is a completely different discussion (my impression from talking with European grad students and PhD grads is that there are a great number of differences between European and US grad school, especially where money is concerned).

Typically a college or university is going to have only a few very strong departments, and the rigor of a good department is fairly well recognized. So it does matter where you go, provided you are entering a job market that really pays attention to your degree (rather than just checking to see if you have any degree at all, then tossing your resume on the pile with the others).

However, those for-profit tech schools and online colleges are treacherous. A lot of them are not really recognized as accredited learning institutions, and others are outright cash-for-diploma scam operations. They service a very small minority of people who know what they are getting and only need to hand over some money for a degree so they can move up in their career, and a vast majority of students who got suckered in my advertising (and a cozy relationship with the government that makes student aid easier to get for those places), and think they are getting a real degree when they're not.
 
2012-06-24 11:39:17 AM  
FTA: John P. Brissette, chairman of the trustees, said school officials considered rebranding at the time of the name change, but the school was in the midst of a presidential search at the time.
"I didn't want to stick a new president with something he didn't like," Mr. Brissette said.


cdn3.hark.com
So an incoming president has veto power over an existing college/university logo? So they'll change it again for the next president in case he doesn't like it? College vs University reminds me of the Windows silliness: version 3.1, Windows 95, XP, Server 2003, Vista, now back to Windows 7.
 
2012-06-24 11:39:34 AM  
The distinction used to be that Universities conducted research and granted terminal degrees, whereas colleges did not.
/Wonders what kind of original research has come out of U of Phoenix
 
2012-06-24 12:06:51 PM  
DNRTFA.

I agree with subby's point..
 
2012-06-24 12:11:15 PM  

Shaggy_C: Snarfangel: Rename them all "Post High Schools." Or maybe "Young Adult Training Facilities."

Socialist Indoctrination Mills


No no no... Since people with bachelors degrees make significantly more money over their lifetimes than people without, we give every highschool graduate a bachelors in general studies. That'll heal the economy overnight.
 
2012-06-24 12:12:01 PM  
I went to Salem State College. First thing every alumnus got was this email:

Show your Salem State University pride!

Order your Salem State University diploma and display it proudly in your home or office!
Diplomas come in an 8.5 x 11 blue cover with the university logo printed on the front.
Cost: $50, shipping and handling included.
 
2012-06-24 12:13:16 PM  
So you mean I went to Berklee UNIVERSITY of Music"? They didn't even have dorms or a health center. All the students went to the free clinic down the street even for stuff like vaccinations and morning after pills.
 
2012-06-24 12:21:57 PM  

Basily Gourt: Connecticut did the same thing awhile back. Buddy of mine graduated from western connecticut state college. In the 1980's, they changed it to western connecticut state university and sent him a new parchment.

they's all fancied up now! yea buddy.


They just sent it or did he pay for it? My college tried to shake us all down for ours. It didn't surprise me that they wanted to charge us for the reprinted diploma. I had to stick the little gold sticker for Cum Laude on my original diploma myself. I'm sticking with my old one. It harkens me back to a simpler time.
 
2012-06-24 12:31:28 PM  

dasc: I went to Salem State College. First thing every alumnus got was this email:

Show your Salem State University pride!

Order your Salem State University diploma and display it proudly in your home or office!
Diplomas come in an 8.5 x 11 blue cover with the university logo printed on the front.
Cost: $50, shipping and handling included.


I'll take 3 please.
 
2012-06-24 12:45:29 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: sure haven't: Honest question: how do you know the difference if you're a kid looking for somewhere to go? Do they all give the same degree/diploma/happy meal, and the only thing that matters where you got it?

The typical break-down is (a) ~2-year associate's degree, which has very little value these days, (b) ~4-year bachelor's degree, which appears to be the minimum required education for a lot of entry-level work in this insane economy, and (c) graduate school...

However, those for-profit tech schools and online colleges are treacherous. A lot of them are not really recognized as accredited learning institutions, and others are outright cash-for-diploma scam operations...


Traditionally in the US, the term "college" meant a school that granted bachelor's degrees, or associate's degrees in the case of junior/technical/community college. A university is typically composed of relatively independent academic communities (e.g., liberal arts, sciences, engineering, etc.) that may or may not grant graduate degrees, although I've never heard of a school called a university that didn't offer grad degrees in at least one field.

In the case of Oxbridge (and hence the origin of tradition) the colleges were residential and academic units and covered more than one discipline, but the idea is pretty much the same (university composed of several colleges). Even Oxbridge is moving away from the traditional residential, multi-discipline colleges to academic units organized around a discipline. They've been doing it the old way for almost 1,000 years (literally), so changes will take time. Another example is Harvard; Harvard College is the undergraduate body for the university. Claremont-McKenna is an interesting hybrid.

For some schools, the single emphasis on undergraduate education preempts the title, so some colleges do offer limited graduate programs.

In terms of quality, you are right that there is always a difference in academic disciplines. Harvard, for example, has a good CS program, but it doesn't have the cachet of MIT or Stanford. The factors are also different for undergrad vs. grad programs, which can also change rapidly based upon recent research output. Again, looking at CS (which is very dynamic), Ivy League schools aren't that great (relative to their standing in the liberal arts), but Dartmouth and Princeton top the list. Some universities are good across the board, though, and well over half of the big state universities (typically main campus only) are all-around powerhouses. Unfortunately for students, regional campuses are not as good and it's just not possible for every reasonably bright high school kid to go to State U's main campus.

The for-profit sector is a mess. There are a few that are regionally accredited (regional accreditation is good, national accreditation is bad, long story), but even those have mediocre records. They distort their records (e.g., job placement, placement into mandatory internships, salaries, completion rates) and they can now take up to 90% of their income in federal money. What's worse is that the target population for most of these schools always includes GI Bill students, whose money doesn't even count in that 90%. They have an attitude of "thank you for serving our country, let us take your hard-earned benefit and fark you over in the process."

Even not-for-profit schools can be bad. There was a recent article about a young woman who went to Ohio Northern University. ONU is a smallish private school that charges about $50K/year in tuition, so even with a generous "financial aid" package, she ended up about $120K in debt. ONU prides itself on being #1, and it is; it's the best private regional school in that region (or one of them), which is like being the fastest funny car at the local racetrack; it means nothing. It means you don't even rank with the big boys. If you have $200K to spare, it's probably not a bad place, but she went to a school that can't even be meaningfully compared with OSU, OU, or even Kent State.

Wow, OK, I guess the simplest way of putting this is that State U's main campus is fine in most states, but beyond at regional campuses of state schools, you have to ask about completion and placement rates and compare them. If they are cagey about this information at all, run. My father's advice with private schools was simply "give me a good reason why." I couldn't because I didn't get in to a place like Stanford or Cal Tech.
 
2012-06-24 12:50:03 PM  

dasc: Basily Gourt: Connecticut did the same thing awhile back. Buddy of mine graduated from western connecticut state college. In the 1980's, they changed it to western connecticut state university and sent him a new parchment.

they's all fancied up now! yea buddy.

They just sent it or did he pay for it? My college tried to shake us all down for ours. It didn't surprise me that they wanted to charge us for the reprinted diploma. I had to stick the little gold sticker for Cum Laude on my original diploma myself. I'm sticking with my old one. It harkens me back to a simpler time.


No idea, that's going back almost 30 years. I don't remember the details.

/HOLY KRIST! I'M OLD!
 
2012-06-24 12:53:45 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: (c) graduate school, which is a completely different discussion (my impression from talking with European grad students and PhD grads is that there are a great number of differences between European and US grad school, especially where money is concerned).


Outside of the US, a master's degree is traditionally research-oriented and sometimes required for advancement to the PhD. Most PhD programs outside of the US require no coursework. In the US, Plan B master's degrees (coursework-only) are more common (think of an MBA or PSM), and almost all PhDs require coursework. However, more degree programs around the world are adding graduate-level coursework (there are even "taught master's" at major British universities), and there is no move to get rid of coursework at the graduate level in the US.

In terms of money, most PhDs are funded (it would be a rare situation to actually justify pursuing a PhD unfunded), and that's true in the US and western Europe. It's not a fancy life (I call it "genteel poverty"), but you're usually only burning opportunity cost. This is why there aren't massive demonstrations in the streets by PhD graduates in most areas, as we can't place most of our PhDs in jobs that require the degree. The same is true in Europe, and it's a bit worse in eastern Europe. It's not a bad or unfair system; it's just very, very competitive, and it's nearly impossible to tell who will excel until the end of the degree program.
 
2012-06-24 01:01:31 PM  

MOHWowbagger: They may as well have flushed the money down the toilet, the shameful way they squandered it to promote their self-image and make the school more attractive to parents and potential students.


... and they're not alone.

Linky Goodness on how to waste nearly a million dollars

blogs.denverpost.com

to

cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com

Same place, same low-octane education, but now with more federal dollars! (somehow connected with changing the term 'college' to 'university')
 
2012-06-24 01:05:23 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Wait, are you telling me that Massachusetts is behind the curve of Missouri on this one?

Missouri State University (formerly Southwest Missouri State Universtity until 2004)
University of Central Missouri (formerly Central Missouri State University until 2006)
Missouri University of Science and Technology (formerly University of Missouri-Rolla until 2008)
And my Alma Mater, Truman State University (formerly Northeast Missouri State University until 1996)

All within the course of 16 years.


It must be something with the "M" states. A few years ago, Maryland paid something like $800k to consultants (plus reprinting/relabeling costs) to change the name of their flagship campus from:

The University of Maryland at College Park

to:

The University of Maryland, College Park

Comma inflation, the economic calamity no one talks about.
 
2012-06-24 01:08:08 PM  

Snarfangel: I know, change the name from College to Collage. Then they can put up fun signs like this:
[www.semboa.org image 600x400]


Cape Cod Community College?
 
2012-06-24 01:11:06 PM  

dasc: I went to Salem State College. First thing every alumnus got was this email:

Show your Salem State University pride!

Order your Salem State University diploma and display it proudly in your home or office!
Diplomas come in an 8.5 x 11 blue cover with the university logo printed on the front.
Cost: $50, shipping and handling included.


Wow! $50 is a bargain. I'll bet your Salem State College diploma cost roughly $36,000. Plus mandatory attendance at 8AM classes while hungover, or even still drunk.
 
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