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(The New Republic)   Those who benefit most from Obamacare are the same people who are most against it. This is why we can't have nice things   (tnr.com) divider line 329
    More: Ironic, obamacare, federal benefits, unpopularity, health law, government insurance, working poor  
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3021 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jun 2012 at 3:42 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-23 08:57:59 AM  
That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?
 
2012-06-23 10:44:09 AM  

voltOhm: taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING


It's called living in a society, dipshiat. God you people have the most childish way of looking at things.
 
2012-06-23 11:16:54 AM  
My 85-year old father, who was a staunch Republican all his life, thought we ought to have some form of universal healthcare. I doubt the issue will quietly disappear.
 
2012-06-23 11:35:34 AM  
It's called voting Republican. For the vast majority of those who vote that way, they are voting against their own interests.

Actually, I saw a quote yesterday that said it best, though this is rough: "Socialism will never succeed in America because the poor view themselves as temporarily impoverished millionaires." It sums up the stupid that is voting Republican nicely.
 
2012-06-23 11:49:12 AM  
With very few exceptions, people who are impoverished are in that position due to ignorance, and chronic bad decision making.

That's why they vote GOP, even though the party's unspoken platform is to utterly guarantee that impoverished people will never have the opportunity to better themselves.
 
2012-06-23 11:50:54 AM  

voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?


No, it's not stealing. It's taxation. I'm cool with paying my taxes to help those less fortunate than myself, defend the country, provide invaluable services to all including myself.

/Don't be such a selfish dick.
 
2012-06-23 11:52:16 AM  
But the man responsible has a funny sounding name! That should be more than enough information for most people to make a rational decision!
 
2012-06-23 12:06:23 PM  
www.modleft.com
 
2012-06-23 12:07:17 PM  
Now that the Supreme Court has left the fate of the Affordable Care Act hanging another few days, it seems an opportune moment to pose a question that has been growing on me after several recent reporting trips: why aren't the most obvious beneficiaries of the law more aware of it?

Because FoxNews
 
2012-06-23 12:08:18 PM  

DarwiOdrade: [www.modleft.com image 500x370]


The hammer and sickle really drive the point home.
 
2012-06-23 12:12:08 PM  

voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?


Farking right. I'm going to build my own highway system!
 
2012-06-23 12:19:05 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?

Farking right. I'm going to build my own highway system!


I have one but a bunch of other jerks keep using it.
 
2012-06-23 12:26:53 PM  

voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?


A toll both will be erected at the end of your driveway shortly.
 
2012-06-23 12:28:16 PM  
The same people who don't want others to have access to affordable healthcare because it costs money have no problem with their tax dollars being wasted on unnecessary wars and corporate welfare.
 
2012-06-23 12:28:20 PM  

unyon: voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?

A toll both will be erected at the end of your driveway shortly.


You really think he ever leaves his mom's basement?
 
2012-06-23 12:33:18 PM  

voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?


bankers, for one. Wall street, for another. why are bailouts for banks and CEOs good, but we can't help the sick and poor without the GOP getting into a snit over it?
 
2012-06-23 12:34:43 PM  

verbal_jizm: voltOhm: taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING

It's called living in a society, dipshiat. God you people have the most childish way of looking at things.


Whatever. I want every last cent of my money going towards a $1000 toilet seat, or a second engine of a jet fighter we don't need, not the healthcare of my fellow citizen.

/When you think about it, a strong military is the only healthcare a good American needs.
//I LOVE YOU FREEEDOM!!!
 
2012-06-23 12:42:14 PM  

Lorelle: The same people who don't want others to have access to affordable healthcare because it costs money have no problem with their tax dollars being wasted on unnecessary wars and corporate welfare.


not to mention wall street and bank bailouts. see - that's the bit that really floors me. Ok, fine - I get the whole 'not liking government spending' on people thing. But if you're going to say that government shouldn't spend money helping out private citizens and/or organizations than be consistent about it...you can't support government bailouts of wall street and/or bankers either.

I think that's really what illustrates the flaws in what passes for Republican philosophies these days: they do give government bailouts a free pass. And if you say it's ok for the Fed to bail out a banker who f*cked up...then you cannot say it's a bad idea for government to help out the sick and poor. open the door to spend public money to help out a CEO, and you open the door to government helping out everyone who needs public assistance. its no different - public assistance is public assistance is public assistance. Be it a CEO needing a bailout or a single mother with 4 kids from 3 different fathers. you help one, you help them all.
 
2012-06-23 12:44:18 PM  
Expanded availability to healthcare is something good. Government intervention seems like the way to get it until things happen like drug companies learning that the government won't pay as much for some drugs so they stop producing effective meds. Even if you are willing to pay youself, the drugs no longer exist.

Why do I think this? So far this year 4 of the meds my wife needed were pulled from the market for "Re-formulating". Turns out that just prior to that decision the drugs had been reclassified by Medicare/Medicaid. The substitutes don't work as well and have more side-effects.

Expanding the healthcare is a good thing unless that healthcare becomes less effective.
 
2012-06-23 12:52:23 PM  

Weaver95: not to mention wall street and bank bailouts. see - that's the bit that really floors me. Ok, fine - I get the whole 'not liking government spending' on people thing. But if you're going to say that government shouldn't spend money helping out private citizens and/or organizations than be consistent about it...you can't support government bailouts of wall street and/or bankers either.


But that's different! According to the GOP, if you give the rich more money, eventually it will trickle down to the unwashed masses, and then EVERYONE will be rich!

That's what Reagan told us in 1980. I naively believed him; then again, I was 18 years old.
 
2012-06-23 12:53:11 PM  

Weaver95: not to mention wall street and bank bailouts. see - that's the bit that really floors me. Ok, fine - I get the whole 'not liking government spending' on people thing. But if you're going to say that government shouldn't spend money helping out private citizens and/or organizations than be consistent about it...you can't support government bailouts of wall street and/or bankers either.



OK, I'll try to keep it simple. Bankers and investors are job creators. They create jobs. They're good for America.

Sick people can't work. They create no jobs. They are bad for America. Sick people are lucky we let them keep their citizenship.

And since I have a better chance of becoming a billionaire Wall Street investor than I do of ever needing the health care system, I'm OK with this.

/One cannot see the countless examples of the horrible consequences of Republican Ideology, both intended and unintended, without realizing exactly how incredibly sick these people really are.
 
2012-06-23 12:56:34 PM  

Lorelle: Weaver95: not to mention wall street and bank bailouts. see - that's the bit that really floors me. Ok, fine - I get the whole 'not liking government spending' on people thing. But if you're going to say that government shouldn't spend money helping out private citizens and/or organizations than be consistent about it...you can't support government bailouts of wall street and/or bankers either.

But that's different! According to the GOP, if you give the rich more money, eventually it will trickle down to the unwashed masses, and then EVERYONE will be rich!

That's what Reagan told us in 1980. I naively believed him; then again, I was 18 years old.


the other thing that gets me is the religious angle. Christ made if VERY clear - it is the duty of christians everywhere to help the sick and poor. you wanna be in the silly hat club, you help the sick and poor. Period. No exceptions. But the GOP wants to STOP helping the sick and poor. they want to make it MORE difficult for the sick and poor to have access to affordable medical care. Then the GOP turns around and says that they're 'Christian' and very moral people.

it's almost as if the Republican leadership wants to force Christians to reject Christian morality.
 
2012-06-23 01:01:52 PM  

Dufus: Why do I think this? So far this year 4 of the meds my wife needed were pulled from the market for "Re-formulating". Turns out that just prior to that decision the drugs had been reclassified by Medicare/Medicaid. The substitutes don't work as well and have more side-effects.


It's Medicare/Medicaid's fault that the drugmakers are more interested in money than health?
 
2012-06-23 01:04:44 PM  

Weaver95:
the other thing that gets me is the religious angle. Christ made if VERY clear - it is the duty of christians everywhere to help the sick and poor. you wanna be in the silly hat club, you help the sick and poor. Period. No exceptions. But the GOP wants to STOP helping the sick and poor. they want to make it MORE difficult for the sick and poor to have access to affordable medical care. Then the GOP turns around and says that they're 'Christian' and very moral people.

it's almost as if the Republican leadership wants to force Christians to reject Christian morality.


If Jesus Christ showed up today, Republicans and Teabaggers would crucify him again. No way would they tolerate a homeless, unemployed dude who hung out with street people, defended prostitutes, and had the nerve to ask the rich for money to feed the poor.
 
2012-06-23 01:10:17 PM  

Weaver95: Lorelle: Weaver95: not to mention wall street and bank bailouts. see - that's the bit that really floors me. Ok, fine - I get the whole 'not liking government spending' on people thing. But if you're going to say that government shouldn't spend money helping out private citizens and/or organizations than be consistent about it...you can't support government bailouts of wall street and/or bankers either.

But that's different! According to the GOP, if you give the rich more money, eventually it will trickle down to the unwashed masses, and then EVERYONE will be rich!

That's what Reagan told us in 1980. I naively believed him; then again, I was 18 years old.

the other thing that gets me is the religious angle. Christ made if VERY clear - it is the duty of christians everywhere to help the sick and poor. you wanna be in the silly hat club, you help the sick and poor. Period. No exceptions. But the GOP wants to STOP helping the sick and poor. they want to make it MORE difficult for the sick and poor to have access to affordable medical care. Then the GOP turns around and says that they're 'Christian' and very moral people.

it's almost as if the Republican leadership wants to force Christians to reject Christian morality.


Yeah, I have trouble picturing Christ campaigning against universal health care.
 
2012-06-23 01:25:09 PM  

voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?


Rich people get rich by having others work for them.
That "something for nothing" part you have touched on can be justified by my former statement.
 
2012-06-23 01:33:08 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Dufus: Why do I think this? So far this year 4 of the meds my wife needed were pulled from the market for "Re-formulating". Turns out that just prior to that decision the drugs had been reclassified by Medicare/Medicaid. The substitutes don't work as well and have more side-effects.

It's Medicare/Medicaid's fault that the drugmakers are more interested in money than health?


No

Unfortunately, it IS a reality and the government can't FORCE the drug companies to keep producing those drugs. You have to take such things into account when passing new laws concerning healthcare. Everything has consequences, no matter how well intended.

One of the lessons learned from growing up in the country is that following an old path can be long and tiresome, but taking a new shorter path across a pasture means you're probably gonna find unexpected crap in your way and some of it might be extra nasty. Choices, choices.
 
2012-06-23 02:14:19 PM  

GAT_00: It's called voting Republican. For the vast majority of those who vote that way, they are voting against their own interests.


You have just provided the reason why Florida votes the way it does. We have all these retirees down here who keep voting for politicians who want to get rid of entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare, even though most of them are deriving benefits from one or both. These people are their own worst enemy when it comes to politics.
 
2012-06-23 02:22:11 PM  
pbh.pbhmedianetwork.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-06-23 02:35:39 PM  

St_Francis_P: My 85-year old father, who was a staunch Republican all his life, thought we ought to have some form of universal healthcare. I doubt the issue will quietly disappear.


So did Richard Nixon.
 
2012-06-23 02:39:14 PM  

snowjack: St_Francis_P: My 85-year old father, who was a staunch Republican all his life, thought we ought to have some form of universal healthcare. I doubt the issue will quietly disappear.

So did Richard Nixon.


Uh-oh. Sekrit commie.
 
2012-06-23 03:06:13 PM  

St_Francis_P: snowjack: St_Francis_P: My 85-year old father, who was a staunch Republican all his life, thought we ought to have some form of universal healthcare. I doubt the issue will quietly disappear.

So did Richard Nixon.

Uh-oh. Sekrit commie.


He did go to China, after all.
 
2012-06-23 03:44:27 PM  

lohphat: [pbh.pbhmedianetwork.netdna-cdn.com image 640x551]


That photo never gets old.
 
2012-06-23 03:44:35 PM  
it's simple: republicans have long gotten their constituents to vote against their interests using the three Gs: guns, god and gays. it's also why they oppose education so vehemently. an intelligent populace is much less likely to vote against its interests.
 
2012-06-23 03:45:23 PM  
What really kills me is the concept (like the argument I had here a few months back with some asshole) that some of these people, even before the Medicaid cap is raised, will not apply for government help - preferring instead to suffer (and hurt their children) so that they can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" or whatever.

fark that. If you qualify for assistance, take the farking assistance. Don't let your goddamn petty politics endanger your children.
 
2012-06-23 03:45:56 PM  

GAT_00: It's called voting Republican. For the vast majority of those who vote that way, they are voting against their own interests.

Actually, I saw a quote yesterday that said it best, though this is rough: "Socialism will never succeed in America because the poor view themselves as temporarily impoverished millionaires." It sums up the stupid that is voting Republican nicely.


Dickinson: Perhaps so, but don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. And that is why they will follow us...

All [singing]: TO THE RIGHT! EVER TO THE RIGHT! NEVER TO THE LEFT! FOREVER TO THE RIGHT!!
 
2012-06-23 03:50:26 PM  

voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?


Because "I've got mine, fark you" is an unsustainable economic model, despite what Ayn Rand says.
 
2012-06-23 03:55:37 PM  
Ah, the GOP.

Getting morons to vote against their economic self interests using divide and conquer strategies and dog whistle racism is kinda their forte.
 
2012-06-23 03:56:14 PM  
Fine. These people love the current system so much, let a few hundred thousand more of these idiots loose their homes or declare bankruptcy due to unforeseen medical bills. Then maybe they'll wise up.

Makes me wonder if most people even deserve affordable medical care.
 
2012-06-23 04:01:39 PM  
Watching the US healthcare debate from across the border makes me queasy. It's like seeing Canada's past and future simultaneously.
 
2012-06-23 04:02:22 PM  
The GOP base vote GOP because they want to stick it to the libs, regardless of how much damage they do to themselves in the process. Its like trying to blow a raspberry at someone but in the process you end up cutting off your arm, foot and nose and lose a couple of major organs. but fark that noise about living well, you got one on those old libs!

GOPers take pyrric victories to heart.
 
2012-06-23 04:03:49 PM  

Gyrfalcon: GAT_00: It's called voting Republican. For the vast majority of those who vote that way, they are voting against their own interests.

Actually, I saw a quote yesterday that said it best, though this is rough: "Socialism will never succeed in America because the poor view themselves as temporarily impoverished millionaires." It sums up the stupid that is voting Republican nicely.

Dickinson: Perhaps so, but don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. And that is why they will follow us...

All [singing]: TO THE RIGHT! EVER TO THE RIGHT! NEVER TO THE LEFT! FOREVER TO THE RIGHT!!


There's a guy I work with who used to run his own business, who's having a really, really hard time with the fact that he'll never be a millionaire. He was railing against estate taxes one day, and I asked him if he was eligible for them. I asked if his father was eligible for them. Then I pointed out that, in all likelihood, he would never, ever be in a position where the estate tax would be an issue for him.

I swear, he looked as if he was about to cry. He was incredibly depressed for the rest of the day. Now he avoids me a lot. I don't really mind.
 
2012-06-23 04:05:47 PM  

voltOhm: That's because they know that you can't get something for nothing and that taking stuff from one person to give to another is STEALING, even if it's the government that's taking it. Why would anyone be in favor of that?


photos1.blogger.com

It's fun to take from liberals, but we don't need no dental work.
 
2012-06-23 04:06:28 PM  
It's easy to get people to vote against their interests. Claim a different group is benefiting more than the chosen voting block (or just invent a group from whole cloth and claim they are benefiting more), and watch your little voters push their way to the front of the voting line to take something away from themselves.

If you don't want your citizens to have job safety, tell them some other group is getting better job safety, and you have the chance to take that away from them if you vote on X. Don't want them to have healthcare? Tell them someone else is benefiting from the healthcare law, and voters have the chance to take it away. Repeat as often as you'd like; it's not like the American voter is going to catch on any time soon.
 
2012-06-23 04:06:44 PM  

GAT_00: Actually, I saw a quote yesterday that said it best, though this is rough: "Socialism will never succeed in America because the poor view themselves as temporarily impoverished millionaires." It sums up the stupid that is voting Republican nicely.


It also explains why the poor GOPers are so damn adamant against raising taxes on the rich who can EASILY take a tiny hit and still live comfortably: they see themselves as being millionaires any second now. At any point their ship will come in and they will be rich, so they don't want to pay more taxes on their imaginary riches.
 
2012-06-23 04:07:17 PM  

Dufus: Expanded availability to healthcare is something good. Government intervention seems like the way to get it until things happen like drug companies learning that the government won't pay as much for some drugs so they stop producing effective meds. Even if you are willing to pay youself, the drugs no longer exist.

Why do I think this? So far this year 4 of the meds my wife needed were pulled from the market for "Re-formulating". Turns out that just prior to that decision the drugs had been reclassified by Medicare/Medicaid. The substitutes don't work as well and have more side-effects.

Expanding the healthcare is a good thing unless that healthcare becomes less effective.


In my own lifetime the entire concept of a not for profit healthcare system, which my parents and I found quite affordable, was completely tossed out the window under the premise that the profit motive and competition will drive costs down.

How's that working out for ya so far?

/They did this same damn thing with energy generation and distribution too.
//And how's THAT working out for ya?
 
2012-06-23 04:07:49 PM  
Obvious tag at a townhall meeting screaming about soshulizm?
 
2012-06-23 04:07:57 PM  

Gyrfalcon: GAT_00: It's called voting Republican. For the vast majority of those who vote that way, they are voting against their own interests.

Actually, I saw a quote yesterday that said it best, though this is rough: "Socialism will never succeed in America because the poor view themselves as temporarily impoverished millionaires." It sums up the stupid that is voting Republican nicely.

Dickinson: Perhaps so, but don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. And that is why they will follow us...

All [singing]: TO THE RIGHT! EVER TO THE RIGHT! NEVER TO THE LEFT! FOREVER TO THE RIGHT!!


I saw a Futurama commercial the other day that summed this up pretty well. Nixon was ranting on how he would lower taxes for the rich and use the poor for shark food, while Fry cheered. Leela pointed out he was clearly voting against his best interests. Fry said, "Yeah, but I might get rich!"

/CSB.
//tell it at parties
 
2012-06-23 04:08:13 PM  
Americans are their own worst enemies. That's usually how it goes for large empires right before they collapse into obscurity.
 
2012-06-23 04:08:33 PM  
If you wanted something nice I guess you should have objected to the plan to create a federal mandate to purchase overpriced insurance from for profit insurance company blood suckers then, you bunch of mildly retarded corporatist political sycophants.
 
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