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(LA Times)   Supporters concede defeat as California's Prop. 29 tobacco tax has been defeated. Smokers laugh as hard as their black little lungs will allow them   (latimes.com) divider line 148
    More: Interesting, California, Philip Morris USA, Dan Schnur, California Secretary of State, state sales tax, Kennedy School, South Carolina Gamecocks, R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.  
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1567 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Jun 2012 at 8:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-23 08:38:52 AM
I'd heard the tobacco lobby has spent a fortune on ads, and made a huge shift against support for the measure in the California public in only a few months.
 
2012-06-23 08:42:59 AM

Alphax: I'd heard the tobacco lobby has spent a fortune on ads, and made a huge shift against support for the measure in the California public in only a few months.


I heard that people in California are getting tired of paying more taxes.
 
2012-06-23 08:50:32 AM
TFA: "Even if voters are willing to pay greater taxes, they don't really trust the government to spend it wisely," Schnur said of the results.

Where's the obvious tag when you need it.
 
2012-06-23 08:52:21 AM

BizarreMan: TFA: "Even if voters are willing to pay greater taxes, they don't really trust the government to spend it wisely," Schnur said of the results.

Where's the obvious tag when you need it.


You've never worked for a large company, eh?
 
2012-06-23 08:56:36 AM
Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

This will take care of the problem. Run ads showing how much cancer costs from the result of smoking and let people know you are on your own footing the bill. I'm sure the insurance companies will put them on affordable payment plans. Haha
 
2012-06-23 08:57:04 AM
wow, californians actually said 'no' to a morality think-of-the-childwen tax? guess they reached their saturation point. took long enough.
 
2012-06-23 08:58:19 AM
But I'm trying to pass these laws for your own good! Why won't you listen?
www.legendsofkansas.com
 
2012-06-23 09:04:06 AM

SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

This will take care of the problem. Run ads showing how much cancer costs from the result of smoking and let people know you are on your own footing the bill. I'm sure the insurance companies will put them on affordable payment plans. Haha


But, according to propaganda, every case of lung cancer is related to smoking! There's secondhand smoke, thirdhand smoke, looking at a pack of cigarettes...
 
2012-06-23 09:04:10 AM

BlippityBleep: wow, californians actually said 'no' to a morality think-of-the-childwen tax? guess they reached their saturation point. took long enough.


14 years since the last tobacco tax increase in California.
 
2012-06-23 09:11:02 AM

FirstNationalBastard: SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

This will take care of the problem. Run ads showing how much cancer costs from the result of smoking and let people know you are on your own footing the bill. I'm sure the insurance companies will put them on affordable payment plans. Haha

But, according to propaganda, every case of lung cancer is related to smoking! There's secondhand smoke, thirdhand smoke, looking at a pack of cigarettes...


You can bet that's what the insurance companies will say if you start excluding coverage for smokers. They'll deny payment to a non-smoker with lung cancer if he ever lived in an apartment that ever allowed smoking. Your choice! Could have lived somewhere else! Coverage denied.

Which is why these "why should I contribute to X when I don't do X" arguments are fatally stupid. Insurance is a risk pool. You start cutting it up, and suddenly there's no pool, and no insurance. Vegans have to chip-in and see their premiums cover people who get sick eating meat. Tee-totalers have to watch their payments cover people who drink. It is what it is.
 
2012-06-23 09:14:26 AM
Wow, you mean the do gooder asshats finally got beaten trying to tax a minority doing something they themselves don't like?

The logic behind smoking taxes is identical to if you started taxing fast food, or taxing coffee, or taxing consuming alcohol (which we already do, to excess in some states).

So if it takes a big lobby to make idiot do gooders get beaten, I'm all for it.

You all, every damn one of you, does something and enjoys it that others could find sinful, wasteful, and taxable.

Suck on that you stupid fark anti smoking punks.


/// not a smoker
 
2012-06-23 09:15:38 AM

SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

This will take care of the problem. Run ads showing how much cancer costs from the result of smoking and let people know you are on your own footing the bill. I'm sure the insurance companies will put them on affordable payment plans. Haha


"we" don't need to do anything. "you" need to quit being an a-hole that believes others sins are somehow more punishable than your own.
 
2012-06-23 09:19:19 AM

Generation_D: Wow, you mean the do gooder asshats finally got beaten trying to tax a minority doing something they themselves don't like?

The logic behind smoking taxes is identical to if you started taxing fast food, or taxing coffee, or taxing consuming alcohol (which we already do, to excess in some states).

So if it takes a big lobby to make idiot do gooders get beaten, I'm all for it.

You all, every damn one of you, does something and enjoys it that others could find sinful, wasteful, and taxable.

Suck on that you stupid fark anti smoking punks.


/// not a smoker


Trolling?
 
2012-06-23 09:20:53 AM
So what would all these state governments do if these sin taxes actually work and people quit smoking and their millions of dollars that are supposed to "help the taxpayers" goes up in smoke,
 
2012-06-23 09:28:01 AM

dennysgod: So what would all these state governments do if these sin taxes actually work and people quit smoking and their millions of dollars that are supposed to "help the taxpayers" goes up in smoke,


find a new demon in fast food, or something similar that will get a bunch of busybody do-gooders up in arms.
 
2012-06-23 09:36:04 AM

Alphax: I'd heard the tobacco lobby has spent a fortune on ads, and made a huge shift against support for the measure in the California public in only a few months.


www.whatthefolly.com
 
2012-06-23 09:36:31 AM

Alphax: I'd heard the tobacco lobby has spent a fortune on ads, and made a huge shift against support for the measure in the California public in only a few months.


Seems more likely that it's because it was a primary election and the turnout was decidedly Conservative because "oh, it was only a primary election" and we all know what demographics go out and vote most often.
 
2012-06-23 09:36:42 AM
If the govt truly cared about their citizens imbibing a toxic substance they'd ban it outright. Instead they'll play the triple profit. Smoking and anti-smoking lobby money and taxes. They sure have no hesitation banning things with any amount of lead in it.
 
2012-06-23 09:37:29 AM

SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

This will take care of the problem. Run ads showing how much cancer costs from the result of smoking and let people know you are on your own footing the bill. I'm sure the insurance companies will put them on affordable payment plans. Haha


I assume you take zero risks in your life, and make no mistakes or unhealthy decisions?

I applaud your perfect life, but I'd hate to find myself at a party with you.
 
2012-06-23 09:37:56 AM
Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery. The poor are not getting screwed by corporations. They are getting screwed by their government.
 
2012-06-23 09:42:28 AM

badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery. The poor are not getting screwed by corporations. They are getting screwed by their government.


No I think it is both.
 
2012-06-23 09:48:14 AM

downstairs: SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

This will take care of the problem. Run ads showing how much cancer costs from the result of smoking and let people know you are on your own footing the bill. I'm sure the insurance companies will put them on affordable payment plans. Haha

I assume you take zero risks in your life, and make no mistakes or unhealthy decisions?

I applaud your perfect life, but I'd hate to find myself at a party with you.


You've got that right.
 
2012-06-23 09:48:46 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Alphax: I'd heard the tobacco lobby has spent a fortune on ads, and made a huge shift against support for the measure in the California public in only a few months.

I heard that people in California are getting tired of paying more taxes.


It's an easy tax to avoid.
 
2012-06-23 09:49:10 AM

badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery. The poor are not getting screwed by corporations. They are getting screwed by their government.


Single payer.
 
2012-06-23 09:51:56 AM

badhatharry: The poor are not getting screwed by corporations.


I can't decide if this is sad or adorable.
 
2012-06-23 09:53:20 AM

HMS_Blinkin: tenpoundsofcheese: Alphax: I'd heard the tobacco lobby has spent a fortune on ads, and made a huge shift against support for the measure in the California public in only a few months.

I heard that people in California are getting tired of paying more taxes.

It's an easy tax to avoid.


We need a big tax on coffee. That would generate a lot of revenue. People that complain can just stop drinking coffee.
 
2012-06-23 09:54:58 AM

SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.


I am fine with this as long as we also deny any kind of aid that may rely on public funds for medical care from health problems caused by soda, alcohol, athletic injuries, not wearing a seatbelt, and every other persoanl choice that puts your more at risk.
 
2012-06-23 09:56:35 AM

badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery.


The lottery itself is a tax on stupidity.

/i'm okay with this
 
2012-06-23 09:58:34 AM

badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery. The poor are not getting screwed by corporations. They are getting screwed by their government.


do you really believe that the gov't and corporations are NOT working together to screw the little guy as much as possible? These assholes want to consolidate power in the hands of the few to the greatest extent they can.
 
2012-06-23 09:58:51 AM

ghare: BizarreMan: TFA: "Even if voters are willing to pay greater taxes, they don't really trust the government to spend it wisely," Schnur said of the results.

Where's the obvious tag when you need it.

You've never worked for a large company, eh?


Because companies are taxing me?
 
2012-06-23 09:59:39 AM

lilplatinum: badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery.

The lottery itself is a tax on stupidity.

/i'm okay with this


Yeah I'm not really seeing the "evil" of the lottery, either.
 
2012-06-23 10:01:19 AM

lilplatinum: badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery.

The lottery itself is a tax on stupidity.

/i'm okay with this


That's true. But the majority of stupid people are also poor. Cigarette smokers are not the smartest bunch either. It's not morally right to unfairly tax stupid people.
 
2012-06-23 10:02:41 AM

DirkValentine: badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery. The poor are not getting screwed by corporations. They are getting screwed by their government.

Single payer.


Single payer for cigarettes, booze, gas, and lottery tickets? You mean like a 7-Eleven?
 
2012-06-23 10:03:14 AM

BizarreMan: TFA: "Even if voters are willing to pay greater taxes, they don't really trust the government to spend it wisely," Schnur said of the results.

Where's the obvious tag when you need it.


^^^THIS^^^.

California's pious "we gotta tax the ciggies to fund cancer research!" got good support until it became clear that there were no guarantees in the law that that's how the money would be spent on cancer research. Just another sin tax that dumped its money into the general fund? Not so much!
 
2012-06-23 10:03:33 AM

badhatharry: That's true. But the majority of stupid people are also poor. Cigarette smokers are not the smartest bunch either. It's not morally right to unfairly tax stupid people.


Why not? They have to service the human race somehow, they obviously aren't donating genetics to advance their superiors so they might as well donate their money - and hey, this way its technically of their own dumb little accord.
 
2012-06-23 10:04:15 AM

badhatharry: lilplatinum: badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery.

The lottery itself is a tax on stupidity.

/i'm okay with this

That's true. But the majority of stupid people are also poor. Cigarette smokers are not the smartest bunch either. It's not morally right to unfairly tax stupid people.


I don't think I agree, I think Obama voters should still be paying their taxes just like the rest of us.
 
2012-06-23 10:04:39 AM

SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

This will take care of the problem. Run ads showing how much cancer costs from the result of smoking and let people know you are on your own footing the bill. I'm sure the insurance companies will put them on affordable payment plans. Haha


Only if you include Fatties, too.
 
2012-06-23 10:05:10 AM

badhatharry: Cigarette smokers are not the smartest bunch either.


Ever consider that maybe some of us don't really care to live to 90 years old?
 
2012-06-23 10:05:41 AM

ghare: BizarreMan: TFA: "Even if voters are willing to pay greater taxes, they don't really trust the government to spend it wisely," Schnur said of the results.

Where's the obvious tag when you need it.

You've never worked for a large company, eh?


C'mon... either evil corporations hoard their greedy profits or they waste them; it's one or the other.
 
2012-06-23 10:05:47 AM

Generation_D: "we" don't need to do anything. "you" need to quit being an a-hole that believes others sins are somehow more punishable than your own.


Never seen anyone die from cancer, have you.....
 
2012-06-23 10:07:20 AM

downstairs: badhatharry: Cigarette smokers are not the smartest bunch either.

Ever consider that maybe some of us don't really care to live to 90 years old?


Live to 100 as a miserable old fark who denied themselves pleasure all their lives so they could sit around in their own shiat for the last 15 years of their life in a nursing home, or live to 65 and have some fun?

Tough choice.
 
2012-06-23 10:07:36 AM

badhatharry: HMS_Blinkin: tenpoundsofcheese: Alphax: I'd heard the tobacco lobby has spent a fortune on ads, and made a huge shift against support for the measure in the California public in only a few months.

I heard that people in California are getting tired of paying more taxes.

It's an easy tax to avoid.

We need a big tax on coffee. That would generate a lot of revenue. People that complain can just stop drinking coffee.


Ok. Not sure what your point is. The gov't may tax any non-essential items they see fit. If we the voters don't like it, we vote against the tax or the politicians who put it in place. That's what happened here. I don't see what all the fuss is about, since the voters got what they wanted.

What I am saying is that if this tax had passed, it wouldn't make a lot of difference. If you were already thinking of quitting smoking, this would be another incentive. If you don't smoke at all, it doesn't matter. And if you and REALLY enjoy smoking and don't want to quit, then you'd choose to free up the money to continue, even with the higher taxes.
 
2012-06-23 10:08:33 AM

badhatharry: That's true. But the majority of stupid people are also poor. Cigarette smokers are not the smartest bunch either. It's not morally right to unfairly tax stupid people.


People who make blanket statements like this are definitely not the smartest bunch. It's not too difficult to find brilliant people who smoke, people much smarter than you or I. Perhaps it doesn't vary directly with intelligence at all, and there might be other motivating factors.
 
2012-06-23 10:09:25 AM

SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes.


Don't forget fatties, motorcycle riders, drinkers, people who don't look both ways before crossing the street, unsafe drivers, bungie jumpers, joggers, professional athletes, mountain climbers, etc. Heck, lets just have the government stop paying for anybody's medical care; nobody lives a risk-free life.
 
2012-06-23 10:09:30 AM
If you're anti-tobacco, you're anti-Diesel engines too, right?
 
2012-06-23 10:11:56 AM

HMS_Blinkin: badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery. The poor are not getting screwed by corporations. They are getting screwed by their government.

do you really believe that the gov't and corporations are NOT working together to screw the little guy as much as possible? These assholes want to consolidate power in the hands of the few to the greatest extent they can.


I agree that big corporations try their best to get laws passed that benefit them and restrict competition from small businesses. It's ultimately the policymakers that are responsible for making the laws.
 
2012-06-23 10:13:27 AM
I voted against this. I just vote against any Proposition that doesn't have a compelling need. And "Hey, we can't get our shiat together finance-wise, so we're just gonna bleed smokers some more" isn't a compelling need in my eyes.
 
2012-06-23 10:17:20 AM

Ontos: DirkValentine: badhatharry: Maybe people are starting to see the evil of the various poor taxes. Cigarettes, booze, gasoline, the lottery. The poor are not getting screwed by corporations. They are getting screwed by their government.

Single payer.

Single payer for cigarettes, booze, gas, and lottery tickets? You mean like a 7-Eleven?


: \
 
2012-06-23 10:18:05 AM

lilplatinum: SeismicJizzer: Instead if taxing the cancer sticks we need legislation that exempts tax payers from footing medical care for these assholes. Who cares if smokers get the cancer. As long as taxpayers don't have to pay for their medicine or surgeries removing half of their faces, I'm okay with them dying a painful death. These people know the risks and rewards of smoking. Just leave the rest of us out of it. As Ron Paul once said, let the churches take care of them.

People who get lung cancer other than from smoking should be helped, these asshats should suffer alone.

I am fine with this as long as we also deny any kind of aid that may rely on public funds for medical care from health problems caused by soda, alcohol, athletic injuries, not wearing a seatbelt, and every other persoanl choice that puts your more at risk.


Libs are so obsessed with money and sticking it to others. Get your fat ass off the computer as well, you pudgy useful idiot
 
2012-06-23 10:18:49 AM

FirstNationalBastard: downstairs: badhatharry: Cigarette smokers are not the smartest bunch either.

Ever consider that maybe some of us don't really care to live to 90 years old?

Live to 100 as a miserable old fark who denied themselves pleasure all their lives so they could sit around in their own shiat for the last 15 years of their life in a nursing home, or live to 65 and have some fun?

Tough choice.


I have no idea what smoking and fun have in common.
 
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