FARK.com: (7176638) Online petition forces removal of billboard that boosts self-esteem of women

If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

		Online petition forces removal of billboard that boosts self-esteem of women (nj.com)		246
		More: Sad, Princeton MarketFair, online petition

• • •

17395 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jun 2012 at 1:50 PM | Favorite | share:

Share this link:

URL:

http://fark.com/go/7176638

Bookmark:

Article Comments close

Voting Results (Smartest)

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Redisplay/refresh voting results (Smartest or Funniest) or Return to comments

Archived thread

Maud Dib		2012-06-22 02:02:42 PM

9 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: Looks like we're going green. Cue the clueless farktards in 3. . . 2. . .

Yes, because that extra 5 bucks a month you spend to read poop threads or "What are you having for lunch" makes you a goddamn genius.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 12:27:30 PM

9 votes:

That is not about self-esteem. That is about blaming the women for the actions disgusting men choose to take. Leave off all the bullshiat about whistling at women, and remove that idiotic perky cartoon character, keep the part about promising to clean up your farking mess, and quit acting like misogyny is something that you can't control.

Sorry, but when you guys decide to frame the argument in this way, it doesn't make the women look bad for choosing to wear clothing and walk down the street. It makes men look like savage beasts who can't be expected to control themselves.

Troublesome Strumpet: This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

Except it's not suggesting that women should put up with it; it's suggesting that women should take such actions as a compliment! You were so sexy, I just HAD to whistle at you! Blaming the victim while making the perpetrator look like a drooling bag of hormones.

WI241TH		2012-06-22 12:15:12 PM

9 votes:

I dunno, it seems kind of offensive to me.

stereotyping construction workers like that.

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-22 10:58:51 AM

9 votes:

I take it subby isn't a woman who's been harassed on the street.

Dr. Goldshnoz		2012-06-22 01:58:54 PM

6 votes:

Then stop wearing these, dumbass.

KiTTeNs_on_AciD		2012-06-22 02:23:53 PM

5 votes:

Question for the 'whistling is harassment' crowd? Are you equally outraged by the women who do it to men? It absolutely does happen.

Worked a few years as a courier when I was younger, turns out mail room women and receptionists are not the least bit bashful about commenting on a the fit of a man's shorts, even if he's only 19. Even better when they used the inappropriate comment as a segue into asking me out or inquiring if I'd be interested in doing any side work stripping out of the uniform.

Office women are even worse, and less subtle. I have been in corporate I.T. for years now, and from time to time the need arises to crawl under a user's desk to test or label a network jack. I have lost count of how many times a women will call her friends over while I'm under her desk on hands and knees only to turn around and see the three or four of them looking on attentively then to breaking into giggles, whispers, and blushing. Then for good measure, invite me to "come back and crawl under my desk anytime".

No amount of planning could have kept me out of these areas as they involved my work responsibilities. Surely this is an outrage as well? Right?

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 02:04:28 PM

5 votes:

Why whistle and cat call at all, though? Aren't you capable of having a look at a nice ass passing by without announcing it? Is subtlety that difficult a concept?

Grungehamster		2012-06-22 02:00:38 PM

5 votes:

I was sexually harassed on a regular basis from the year I turned fourteen until the year I left for college. I tried so hard, every day, to ignore it. But I couldn't. It changed me. The irrepressible nervousness when a stranger approached. Being afraid to look any man on the street in the eyes. Worrying I was being followed. Not wanting to leave my house unless I had to. Crying. Not crying until I got home, then crying. Hating myself for crying. Playing the faces of dozens of men back in my mind-I remember them all. Wondering what would have happened if I had bumped into them in a deserted area. The rape nightmares.

But the worst part was how it warped my own view of myself. Maybe it was my fault, I thought. Maybe I was asking for it. It was because I was small and weak, I thought. I hated myself for my own helplessness. Hated myself every time the snappy retort, the "leave me alone," the "stop," bubbled up furiously in my heart only to wilt in my throat. The tiny, illogical, and unshakable fear that no matter how hard I worked, I would never amount to anything more than a body. That my feelings-my disgust, the anger and loathing written all over my face-would deter no one because they simply did not matter. That it would only get worse as I grew older. That my only worth was sexual. That I was less than human. That I was nothing.
/I'm sure this sentiment is already all over this thread, but needed to share probably the best summary of what is wrong with what some people think is harmless flirtation.

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-22 12:22:19 PM

5 votes:

WI241TH: I dunno, it seems kind of offensive to me.

stereotyping construction workers like that.

Yes, that too. One of the comments on the article said something about how they're not all savage beasts who can't control themselves, but an ad like that reinforces the stereotype.

This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

ProfessorOhki		2012-06-22 03:01:28 PM

4 votes:

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: Right, it's not the same thing. Not an 'equal comparison' because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion of all men bad, all women victims.

I'm 31, I've spent the vast majority of my career reporting to women bosses, being educated by women teachers, having a women governor, the home I grew up in was not a male-dominated patriarchy.

But because you're view of society differs from my real life experience, I'm less entitled to the same courtesy you demand.

What a hypocrite.

You've spent far too much time in women's studies courses and not enough living in the world around you.

^ Bears bears bears. But, this is why these arguments never go anywhere. Last line is guilty of the same thing you're complaining about though. The world around them might very well support what they're saying just the same as the world around you supports what you're saying. Here's the thing...

In one corner, we've got guys who grew up in an era where they hear nothing except how dangerous and misogynist they are, even though they've never done anything, feel like they live in a culture where women are [at least] equals, and want to stop being vilified.

In the other corner, we've got women who grew up in an environment where felt like society gave women no power, and felt like they had no defenses to the culture around them, and want to stop being objectified.

And by virtue of forum (both Internet general, and Fark specifically), you've got people who aren't afraid to say what they're thinking. So there you have it, two groups of people who feel like the society they're personally acquainted with is taking a collective dump on them as individuals for no reason other than their sex, while being unable to shake the feeling that the other side is blame.

tl;dr: Not everyone you talk to online has the same life experiences.
/That's what makes it interesting

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:17:50 PM

4 votes:

Grobbley: Your thoughts and routines are interrupted by a passing comment? What if a lady were to say "That's a pretty dress you are wearing"? Would that cause you to freak out as well?

No, because I would not immediately fear for my safety and have to start checking to make sure that someone else was around and that I wasn't alone with a stranger expressing unwanted sexual interest in me.

It's particularly awful when it happens in places where you're already watching for your own safety- bad neighborhoods, parking garages, elevators, etc.

I May Be Crazy But...		2012-06-22 02:15:57 PM

4 votes:

For all the guys who are arguing that you ought to be able to whistle or whatever at a woman, step back a second. It's not just about you. Clearly a lot of them don't like it. If you're not going to stop because of that alone, then stop so you quit ruining it for the rest of us. We like seeing them in clothes that they look good in and when they're confident, so don't give them reason not to.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:15:30 PM

4 votes:

Graffito: The guy doing the whistling is doing it in front of other men, and for the benefit of his position in his peer group. It is a male-bonding ritual at the expense of the woman. It is not a date-getting strategy.

Yup, that's generally the case.

SultanofSchwing: I'm also sorry that you're an overzealous hosebeast.

You know, that's not doing a whole lot to make you sound like anything but a misogynistic asshat.

Graffito		2012-06-22 02:13:20 PM

4 votes:

Grobbley: Troublesome Strumpet: Yeah, not everyone likes it, and not everyone understands that there's a line between "You look nice today" and "Woo baby I wanna tap that! Hey, where you going? What, too good to talk to me? biatch!"

Here's a question, do you think it's offensive if it stops at "Woo baby I wanna tap that!"? Because the sign in question doesn't give the impression that the construction workers are being douchebags, it is simply referring to the act of whistling. I think a woman who is offended by a man whistling at her in a way that indicates he's attracted to her is probably more of a douchebag than the guy whistling.

But I will certainly agree that if it turns into "Hey, where you going? What, too good to talk to me? biatch!" it's well beyond inappropriate. But those words even without the whistling would be inappropriate.

The guy doing the whistling is doing it in front of other men, and for the benefit of his position in his peer group. It is a male-bonding ritual at the expense of the woman. It is not a date-getting strategy.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:11:32 PM

4 votes:

Grobbley: The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that it's not a compliment in the eyes of the women that you're doing it to, no matter how much you really really want it to be, so knock it off. Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day. Let them.

This just in, The My Little Pony Killer speaks for all women.

/I've had plenty of women give me positive reactions when I indicate that they are beautiful. Surprisingly enough, not all women are biatches all of the time.
//I understand if you don't like it, just ignore it and move on, or remove the stick from your ass and take a compliment instead of throwing a fit

It's not a compliment though, and I refuse to take it as such just because it makes you feel bad (you poor farking baby) or just because other women don't rightfully put you in your place. Girls are brought up from a very young age to be NICE to everybody, so I'm not surprised that you somehow think that their "acceptance" of your "compliment" makes you think that you somehow have a right to act like an animal in public. I'm not a biatch just because I find you slimey, you're the asshole who initiated the situation in the first place.

And no, I will not just ignore it and move on, because as I said earlier, it makes pieces of shiat like you think that what you are doing is okay, when it is ANYTHING but.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:09:04 PM

4 votes:

SultanofSchwing: The My Little Pony Killer: No, the problem is I don't know what else that man is willing to do if he can't even filter what's coming out of his face.

So, every male who catcalls, whistles, or stares at you for any indeterminate amount of time has a very high potential to be a rapist. Got it.

No... we DON'T KNOW if the man who catcalls, whistles, or stares at us so we notice him staring has the potential to be a rapist. Sadly enough, rapists don't wear freaking signs and announce "Hey, I'm scary and dangerous and you should stay away from me."

And anyone that gives us unwanted attention sends up a red flag and puts us on our guard a bit. That's the reality of being a woman.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:02:37 PM

4 votes:

Nana's Vibrator		2012-06-22 02:01:31 PM

4 votes:

Hopefully the billboard will be replaced with an advertisement for clothing, shoes, hair, makeup, weight loss, home appliances, soaps or detergents, etc...
None of those products' companies would ever exploit insecurity in their target consumers.

elsuavio		2012-06-22 05:57:26 PM

3 votes:

What I've learned today: Start whistling and catcalling women. The really insecure, angry, manhating, nasty women will run away and have their days ruined. The nice ones will take it as a compliment and smile and wave.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 05:33:58 PM

3 votes:

WhippingBoy: I May Be Crazy But...: Phinn: namegoeshere: "It is offensive" is really all you need to know.

So? Some women are offended. That matters ... why?

Well, and bear with me here, because this is going to sound crazy, apparently women are people. I know, it sounds silly, but that's what the latest research from the egg-heads that study this stuff is showing. I'd always thought they were an animal of some variety, maybe a parrot since parrots can pretend to talk too, but there you go.

I think the point he was trying to make was that everybody, everywhere, everyday gets offended by something. Why does the fact that it happens to women make it exceptional?

It speaks to "it's a compliment to be catcalled." No, it's not. It's offensive. No one needs to explain to you why. Just know, it isn't a compliment. It's offensive.

Why that matters? Because if you catcall, you are not demonstrating your masculinity, virility, or suitability as a potential mate. You are demonstrating your creepiness, low intellect, inability to understand nonverbal cues, ineptness in relating to women, and general all around douchiness.

If this is what you're aiming for with the whole catcalling deal, hey. A winnar is you.

If otoh, you expect the woman to respond to you positively, you're doing it wrong.

Kymry		2012-06-22 03:24:05 PM

3 votes:

Most Females in Thread: We hate it when you catcall at us, seriously. It is creepy and makes our skin crawl. It's faintly threatening. Please stop.

Certain Males in Thread: Stuck up b*tches, we'll say what we want, if you're offended it's your fault! You dress like you want it anyhow, so we call shenanigans! You really like it! You and your mixed messages, sheez. I'm not a rapist, I just want to leer at you regardless of how it makes you feel! You're the sexists, not us! What's wrong with you?! Crazy women.

...at least, that's how It has seemed to go so far.

SultanofSchwing		2012-06-22 03:06:34 PM

3 votes:

voodoolady: I find it to be hysterical pathetic that, though a lot of women on here are sharing how this sort of behavior honestly makes them and others feel, some men on here are still trying to tell women how to feel. Newsflash for men: yes, this is harassment. How many women need to say so before you believe it? Some women take it better than others, but that they are more deadened to it doesn't make the behavior ok. That so many men continue to make some of the ridiculous justifications I've read here is why the trope of men not understanding women exists.

Because there is an equal or larger number of women who would get upset at the total lack of appreciation if we all decided to just ignore them completely.

Dear Women,

Pick your complaint: "Men focus too much on me as a sex object." vs "Men pay no attention to me, am I not attractive?"

Don't care, but please decide on a universally accepted stance on the subject and farking stick to it.

Sincerely,
Men

PS. We don't all want to rape you.

SouthernFriedYankee		2012-06-22 02:55:25 PM

3 votes:

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: It's best that men treats women they see on the street like dog shiats on the sidewalk. Ignore and avoid them with indifference.

Which is pretty much my MO any more. I like women - a lot - but I'm done putting up with the crazy. I don't look, I don't flirt, I don't care. I keep hoping that the pissed-off, chip-on-shoulder feminism will die off, to be replaced by confident, empowered, intelligent women who can simply know in their hearts that they deserve equality and carry themselves accordingly, instead of all this bitter invective so many of them spew now.

I know, I know. But a guy can dream, can't he?

DantesDiscoInferno		2012-06-22 02:52:35 PM

3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: DantesDiscoInferno: Genevieve Marie: Grobbley: Your thoughts and routines are interrupted by a passing comment? What if a lady were to say "That's a pretty dress you are wearing"? Would that cause you to freak out as well?

No, because I would not immediately fear for my safety and have to start checking to make sure that someone else was around and that I wasn't alone with a stranger expressing unwanted sexual interest in me.

It's particularly awful when it happens in places where you're already watching for your own safety- bad neighborhoods, parking garages, elevators, etc.

Are you farking kidding? How the hell do you ever manage to leave the house if you're that damn afraid of everything? It must suck to be that debilitated by y our utterly irrational fear of men.

You are paranoid. Your crippling fear? It's neither reasonable nor rational. The men in his thread are not the ones who are wrong. You're a misandrist.

Cool story, bro. See you in the next rape thread where we can read a hundred comments about how if the victim had just USED COMMON SENSE and looked out for herself, nothing would have happened to her.

Hint: I am not a bro.

That I am not irrational, paranoid, and terrified of the world outside my own home (and probably in it, too, since I bet you think every delivery or repair person who comes near your house might return at night to rape you) does not make me male.

It makes me sane.

ProfessorOhki		2012-06-22 02:46:04 PM

3 votes:

SouthernFriedYankee: I make a point of not staring at pretty girls in public, because I know they don't know me, and in this day and age, the fear of sexual assault is very very valid.

Serious question: do you believe that the risk of sexual assault is actually greater now than it has been in the past 10 years? 50 years? 100 years? 200? Not to say the fear isn't valid, but what makes you so sure that the risk increased and it's not simply a case of fear escalating to acknowledge a risk that was there all along?

/pet peeve

DaJesus		2012-06-22 02:44:31 PM

3 votes:

From what I am reading in this thread, MLP Killer and others assume that because a man catcalled or whistled, that they have poor impulse control and are therefore much more likely to be a rapist. Any misstep in how the woman acts could lead to a raping at that very moment in that very spot.

Do you have any data to show how many rapes or sexual assaults occur from spurned or ignored catcalls or whistles? You can start with how many rapes and sexual assaults are performed by a complete stranger.

I accept that you feel that fear and react to it, but I ask, how rational is that fear? If the data doesn't support this fear, I would like to look at another part of this argument. How is assuming that a guy who whistles is a rapist really different from assuming that a woman is loose based on the way she dresses?

/Has never catcalled or whistled.

Representative of the unwashed masses		2012-06-22 02:22:02 PM

3 votes:

Ok ladies, ever consider that when construction workers whistle, they are just doing so because it's a traditional way of saying, "Hey you, you're cute!". The victimization crap is in your head. It's something that us men consider and dismiss in a nanosecond. Here's another clue, if we were intent on harming or stalking you we wouldn't whistle...

ALSO the sign is completely covering the area that workers are in, the sign is poking fun at the stereotype and is meant to draw in the eyes of the passerby to tell them HEY there's a new store coming!

Seriously stop looking for ways to feel like a victim. Sometimes we just like saying that a woman is cute!

Amos Quito		2012-06-22 02:21:11 PM

3 votes:

Hermione_Granger: LOL. The other day I had a comment deleted for calling someone a dick who was truly being a dick. Some of the posts in this thread will never be deleted and they are some of the most insulting bullshiat I've had the displeasure of reading on FARK.

I can actually say that the idiot white males on FARK think less of all women than they do of black people in particular and minorities in general.

You sound like a professional victim.

Kymry		2012-06-22 02:21:06 PM

3 votes:

Yeah, I've received nice compliments on the street before. Some random guy walked by me once and said, "Miss, you look lovely today." Smiled and kept walking. It was not threatening, it was charming. I dunno if anyone can get away with this, but this guy obviously had practice.

Anyone who walks by and eyes you, then whistles or catcalls or leers or grabs their crotch is, whether they mean it or not, making a threat of sexual violence.

I'm honestly going with the idea that 99.9% of them are unaware that women feel this way about their attentions. But it doesn't change that that's how we feel. Dirty, like we are just an object for their pleasure.

/okay sometimes that's good
//but not with strangers on the street

Dr. Goldshnoz		2012-06-22 02:09:31 PM

3 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Yes, it does. girls dress like hos because they like being looked at. if you didn't like being looked at, you wouldn't show so much and you would dress more appropriately.

You've got to be trolling. Seriously. So much ignorance in everything you've posted here, and I usually find you intelligent and funny.

media.giantbomb.com

Only half-troll. Seriously, if someone bugs you, tell them to stop and grow up, but don't go around trying to speak for ALL women as hating attention to their beauty and needing to not "put up" with it, because its a farce.

Grobbley		2012-06-22 02:08:04 PM

3 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that it's not a compliment in the eyes of the women that you're doing it to, no matter how much you really really want it to be, so knock it off. Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day. Let them.

This just in, The My Little Pony Killer speaks for all women.

/I've had plenty of women give me positive reactions when I indicate that they are beautiful. Surprisingly enough, not all women are biatches all of the time.
//I understand if you don't like it, just ignore it and move on, or remove the stick from your ass and take a compliment instead of throwing a fit

WTFDYW		2012-06-22 02:07:21 PM

3 votes:

There's a whole lot of attention whoring going on in this thread.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:02:27 PM

3 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. And it makes me then plan out ways that I can avoid being in that particular area ever again. I could give a rat's ass about your intentions when the actual action that you take makes me feel like I need to go home, shower, and throw on a burqa.

Yup. I've done that so many times- altered my routes walking around to avoid areas where I know guys that like to catcall hangout. It makes me feel like prey, and it's scary and awful in ways that a lot of men don't bother to even try and understand.

Grobbley: I think a woman who is offended by a man whistling at her in a way that indicates he's attracted to her is probably more of a douchebag than the guy whistling.

Yes, because having our own thoughts and routines interrupted so that someone we don't know whose attention we didn't seek can let us know that he finds us sufficiently farkable is something we should enjoy.

Hermione_Granger		2012-06-22 02:00:44 PM

3 votes:

If by "boosts self-esteem of women" you mean makes them feel small, harassed and unsafe then, yeah, sure.

Sad tag must be for anyone who thinks this sign would make a woman feel good about herself. Because everyone woman is white, thin and 8 feet tall.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 01:56:20 PM

3 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

Dr. Goldshnoz		2012-06-22 01:55:37 PM

3 votes:

Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

MilesTeg		2012-06-22 01:54:13 PM

3 votes:

BarkingUnicorn		2012-06-22 12:59:02 PM

3 votes:

One more comma would have prevented this tragedy. Instead of

"We apologize for the whistling construction workers, but man you look good!"

it could have read,

"We apologize for the whistling, construction workers, but man you look good!"

DantesDiscoInferno		2012-06-23 06:49:08 AM

2 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: No, it is not. And good job completely missing the farking point.

No matter what a woman does, she's either too paranoid for protecting herself, or is stupid or asked for it if something bad does happen. We don't WANT to have to keep looking over our shoulders and mistrusting people, but between assholes who think they deserve our attention for commenting on our tits and safety pamphlets and such insisting that the burden of our safety is entirely on us without also telling people to stop being assholes, what the hell are we supposed to do?

Stop saying 'we' like you speak for all women, because you sure as fark don't speak for me. I don't walk around in fear, mistrusting everyone I see. I don't think there's any kind of dilemma involved in being on the elevator with a man. I am not confused, afraid, and unable to take care of myself.

You don't speak for me, and your false implication that you do is the move of a presumptuous asshole.

And it's not as simple as carrying a taser, numbnuts. It can be taken away and used on you, it might not work, and since most of the time the rapist is someone the victim knows and trusts, there's a mental block stopping us from using it. The brain doesn't work logically under stress. Try reading up on the subject before trying to claim it's simple.

I carry a gun. Not because I'm afraid that the guy in the elevator is going to rape me, but because there are farking face eating zombies out there. That is taking responsibility for my own safety, and it is simple. Practice, train, become familiar with your defense weapon and how to use it. Although you'd probably shoot the UPS guy when he approached to ask you to sign for a package, so maybe you should just stay at home behind your barred windows and locked doors.

eris523		2012-06-23 04:08:52 AM

2 votes:

ghawds, people.

its not based on how "attractive" women are. i get catcalled, and i'm far from pretty or conventionally hot.

do i feel unsafe? no, but i'm a butch who is built like a willendorff linebacker, and i know how to fight. (the catcalls are usually based on the size of my tits) nonetheless, its still rude and dehumanising.

i was sitting on a corner waiting for someone one day, and some random guy came up and said that he liked my lips and wanted to know what they'd feel like on assorted body parts. i calmly told him that he was rude, and that if he really needed to objectify me, he could go look up the magazines i used to model for and that would be as close as he got.

after he left, a woman who had seen the whole thing came up to me, and seemed really surprised that i just talked to him calmly. she said she would have screamed or yelled for help. i said that would just give him more power, and i wasn't about to do that.

not all men are boors, but jeez guys, men would have more standing if *they* ever called the rude ones out on their boorishness, instead of women having to do it.

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-23 03:27:12 AM

2 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: Troublesome Strumpet: And it's not all in our head. This happens all the time

um. Yea, Nah. Rape certainly happens, and it certainly sucks, but your whole lone women getting raped on elevators ALL THE TIME schtick here is extreme hyperbole.

Troublesome Strumpet: We don't need reminders that we're not humans who are allowed our feelings and safety.

Carry a taser. And stop projecting your apparently permanent disposition on women who aren't living the rest of their lives based on a traumatic experience.

/thread about a sign making a reference about whistling at beautiful women.
//twisting it into a rape situation/memory.

you are paranoid as f*ck. I've been picked on, beat up, robbed, grabbed, back stabbed(not physically), etc. I don't live my life in fear of those things just because they happened to me once or even more than once. If you live in a sh*t neighborhood then obviously use your head. but walking down a crowded street at 1pm with whistling construction workers != rape.

///what. the. fark.
////I think I got trolled.

[gifsforum.com image 270x360]

//inb4 insensitive a-hole. You are insensitive for not letting me enjoy my sign.

No, it is not. And good job completely missing the farking point.

No matter what a woman does, she's either too paranoid for protecting herself, or is stupid or asked for it if something bad does happen. We don't WANT to have to keep looking over our shoulders and mistrusting people, but between assholes who think they deserve our attention for commenting on our tits and safety pamphlets and such insisting that the burden of our safety is entirely on us without also telling people to stop being assholes, what the hell are we supposed to do? Hell, people have been picking apart the dude who killed his daughters' attacker EVEN THOUGH HE WAS LEGALLY ALLOWED. Imagine having something you did in order to survive picked apart and thrown in your face. It sucks, and just reinforces the idea that you're not entitled to stick up for yourself, because no matter what, someone's gonna tell you you're wrong and worse for it.

And it's not as simple as carrying a taser, numbnuts. It can be taken away and used on you, it might not work, and since most of the time the rapist is someone the victim knows and trusts, there's a mental block stopping us from using it. The brain doesn't work logically under stress. Try reading up on the subject before trying to claim it's simple.

CtrlAltDestroy		2012-06-22 08:37:20 PM

2 votes:

Ok, so I'm seeing a trend here. A few of the vocal wimmens here seem to think that their opinions are the only ones that matter.

To you, it's not flirting, it's assault. But to THEM it's not assault, it's flirting. You're assuming that all of them are trying to harm you. They don't actually intend that. It may be crass by most people's definitions, but it's not intended to be harmful or an act of assault.

You're confusing CONTEXT and CONTENT.

This is the same zero tolerance bullshiat that you all make fun of in the threads about school administrators. It's just an excuse not to think.

I'm not saying that you have to like what they do. Of course you don't. Their intent also doesn't excuse their lack of sophistication. I'm saying that you're wrong for assuming that they're all rapists who want nothing more than to injure you. If they get up and start following you then you have something to worry about.

"WAA. They see us all as pieces of meat" Well, you seem all of them as rabid wolves. Why are their assumptions and broad brush strokes wrong but yours are right?

They're not rapists, they're just dumbasses.

/I know full well that all of these words will fall upon ~~deaf ears~~ blind eyes.
//I ain't afeared.

Jahx		2012-06-22 07:48:37 PM

2 votes:

This taps a nerve for me.

To all the women crying about this - STFU. You wanted equality. You now have it. You have the right to be an adult and not a child. Men aren't supposed to take care of you anymore, or make you feel safe. I have gotten a few whistles, and I took them as a compliment, perhaps you should do the same.

I am tired of all the whining I hear from women "I don't want to walk alone in the dark", " I'm afraid of driving through that neighborhood" etc. Stop being afraid. I walk alone in the dark, and I don't care what neighborhood I have to drive through to get to my destination. In fact, none of my male friends have ever said those things to me. But the women have.

So grow up. You got what you wanted, and every time you act like a scared child, or throw a temper tantrum, I wonder why we ever gave you those rights if you can't handle them.

ChimbleySweep		2012-06-22 07:17:18 PM

2 votes:

GhettoWinter: soooo, never say anything to women ever? right? got it.

It's amazing how many Farkers in this thread are so obtuse (or think it's cute to pretend to be) that they can't wrap their heads around simply abstaining from a behavior they've been informed is bad, even when given examples and suggestions of alternate behavior that is good.

I.e. don't whistle, catcall, or grab your crotch at a woman passing by. Using your brains to form words to nicely and sincerely tell a woman she's looking lovely today or that's a nice shirt = good. And for the record, leering at her and adding that the shirt would look even better on your floor is back in the 'bad' zone, no matter how sincerely you mean it.

If you're told that someone doesn't like something and it would cost you absolutely nothing to avoid that thing, why go out of your way to insist that because you're totally within your legal rights to do it, they're only being a ninny? Why feel so self-righteous about doing something more likely to offend than not when you could just...not do it? Even if you can only think from a selfish perspective, is it not better to act as suave and charming around a beautiful woman as possible (until any hypothetical point where she proves herself to be a horrible person, in which case don't be) if you want to hit that?

GhettoWinter		2012-06-22 06:48:16 PM

2 votes:

soooo, never say anything to women ever? right? got it.

WTFDYW		2012-06-22 06:45:12 PM

2 votes:

lake march: I'm glad that there's a thread where vapid cows can express their displeasure at being incessantly hit on every moment they are in public, but seriously, the world is a harsh place. It sucks that none of you can walk down the street without being harassed because you're so incredibly attractive, and I hope one day humanity changes it's views towards your favor, but until that time comes, you should probably look into some sort of spinal implantation surgery and get over yourselves.

Yep. The AW's in this thread made me lmao. I could not give less a fark about what they look like and would most likely not notice them if i passed them on the street. That being said, i had a really hard time not egging them on and working them in to a froth.

Really girls, you're probably not as hot as you think you are. those cat calls are probably mockery of the attitude your face shows, if you actually get cat calls at all.

/i'll have a reuben on light rye, thank you

the_vicious_fez		2012-06-22 06:10:34 PM

2 votes:

BeesNuts: namegoeshere:

The woman's not the audience of the catcall, typically.

So they're an unwilling prop in some odd scenario that they can't control and don't enjoy? Greeaaat.

the_vicious_fez		2012-06-22 05:51:42 PM

2 votes:

And honestly, given the sheer number of women who don't like this, you'd think people would at least realize that it isn't doing them any favors even if they don't understand why not.

Fat Old Broad		2012-06-22 05:48:29 PM

2 votes:

Gawd, this thread is depressing. Has to be a new low, even for Fark.

Cat-calling/whistling at people is rude and low class. The billboard takes an unnecessary swipe at construction workers too.

Smh.

Coronach		2012-06-22 05:35:27 PM

2 votes:

I and my two friends are approaching middle age, we've known each other for well over 25 years. Back when we were 18/19 they were occasionally offended by unsolicited attention (I say occasionally because they didn't mind if it was loud and rude at times if it was the right kinda guy).

*Flash forward to present day*

They're each now divorced and have been for 7/8 years and obviously missing the attentions that they were once accustomed to. Desperation slipped in for a while. There was a boob job at 42 for one. There is an STD contracted on a fling with a really sketchy guy for the other at 43. They were casting about looking for what went missing from their lives while they were married (took them a while to figure out that the single life isn't the same for someone older as it is for young'uns).

Sitting around drinking with them last Fall they asked me why I hadn't hit on either of them back in the day. Had to break it to them that yes, I had indeed hit on each of them, I just wasn't rude and they couldn't recognize it. They ended up calling other old friends and found out that others remembered my hitting on each of them in no uncertain terms.

The upshot here ladies, is that you may one day miss that which you now think is derisive. Nobody is trying to do you or society any harm by giving a catcall (and I never met anyone pissed off at birds singing to attract a mate, people are just critters too).

/still think they're both hot
//except for the fake bewbs

ciberido		2012-06-22 04:29:05 PM

2 votes:

devek: Try living in a man's shoes for a day and try to show women respect.

I've touted this book by Norah Vincent before, but it's relevant to the whole "walk a mile in his shoes" argument.

Just as there is truth to the complaint that men don't know how hard it can be to be a woman, there is also truth to the complaint that women don't know how hard it can be to be a man.

It might also be a good time to point out that feminism (or at least my interpretation of it) isn't about women defeating men and winning the war between the sexes. It's about calling a truce. This whole issue isn't as zero-sum as people seem to think it is, or at least it doesn't have to be.

I suspect the main reason why so many people who are opposed to feminism is that they see its success as their loss. Nobody really has to lose anything.

ciberido		2012-06-22 04:20:04 PM

2 votes:

Bubba_the_Hutt: Cat calling is disrespectful, why are people taking offense to people asking not to be disrespected?

I think it's really telling just how defensive some people are getting in this thread. It's almost Freudian.

ciberido		2012-06-22 03:47:01 PM

2 votes:

SultanofSchwing: But all of that aside, I'm glad your second statement is there because it actually makes my point for me. There is no universal consensus, so how can it be expected that there is only one way to act in that situation? Your preference that it isn't done at ...

Some people like to get urinated upon. Therefore, there's no universal consensus on whether or not it's rude to urinate upon a random stranger.

Kymry		2012-06-22 03:34:18 PM

2 votes:

There's been a lot of "I'm offended!" cards dropped here, but not a single one that actually rationally explains why it is offensive...there have been plenty of "explanations" that liken it to lack of dick control leading to sexual assault and how it's somehow misogynistic to be complimentary of a woman's appearance.

There have been several rational attempts to explain why it feels gross to be whistled at by strangers.

Just because you didn't read them or didn't like what you heard doesn't change WHY it's offensive, sorry.

Here's a list, to recap:

1) If you want to tell a girl she's pretty, there are polite, acceptable ways to do this. Some of them might even get you a date.

2) Catcalling is not one of them. It says to your target that she is a piece of meat. It has a vague sexual threat to it.

3) There IS a power discrepancy--physically and socially--between men and women. When the person in the position to do the hurting makes lewd sexual comments, women experience fear. This has a lot to do with the culture in which rape is common. Sorry if that's unpleasant, but even a vague threat such as a catcall can make someone's stomach sour.

4) It's rude. Men know this, even if they pretend they don't. Since most people knows it's rude, when someone does it to you, the only assumption you can make is that they're trying to be rude to you. This is an unpleasant sensation in and of itself.

Clear enough? Any more questions?

voodoolady		2012-06-22 03:25:56 PM

2 votes:

SultanofSchwing: voodoolady: I find it to be hysterical pathetic that, though a lot of women on here are sharing how this sort of behavior honestly makes them and others feel, some men on here are still trying to tell women how to feel. Newsflash for men: yes, this is harassment. How many women need to say so before you believe it? Some women take it better than others, but that they are more deadened to it doesn't make the behavior ok. That so many men continue to make some of the ridiculous justifications I've read here is why the trope of men not understanding women exists.

Because there is an equal or larger number of women who would get upset at the total lack of appreciation if we all decided to just ignore them completely.

Dear Women,

Pick your complaint: "Men focus too much on me as a sex object." vs "Men pay no attention to me, am I not attractive?"

Don't care, but please decide on a universally accepted stance on the subject and farking stick to it.

Sincerely,
Men

PS. We don't all want to rape you.

Why hello false equivalency. The only time I hear a women complaining about not being paid attention to/not feeling attractive is when the lack of attention is based on actions by her partner, not random men. I never heard anyone complain "hey, I want to be harassed on the street" and never even heard of anyone uttering such a complaint.

PS, not all women are the same, that's why there is no "universally accepted stance" on how annoying it is. As I said earlier, some women are deadened. Some are pretty offended. But I've never heard of a woman who was so turned on by it produced the whistler's desired effect.

Moonfisher		2012-06-22 03:24:09 PM

2 votes:

I don't really get why it bothers women when construction workers catcall at them. If they say something really disgusting, I could see being annoyed, but I generally just smile or say something sarcastic back to them. Lighten up! Those guys would probably kick anyone's ass that tried to actually touch you.

nunpunter		2012-06-22 03:16:26 PM

2 votes:

Kymry: But the handful of crazies here would see holding the door open as a precursor to gang rape.

Uh, no.

I have been reading pretty much the whole thread, and not ONE woman here has objected to the common courtesy of door-holding. I'm sure many of us do it for whomever is behind us, regardless of gender, age, race or number of piercings.

Over-reactor is over-reacting.

Why is holding doors for women a common courtesy? Are your weak, feminine arms unable to handle the modern door? Or are you just looking for special treatment because of your vagina? You are smart enough to figure out the door mechanism right?

nunpunter		2012-06-22 03:08:57 PM

2 votes:

voodoolady: I find it to be hysterical pathetic that, though a lot of women on here are sharing how this sort of behavior honestly makes them and others feel, some men on here are still trying to tell women how to feel. Newsflash for men: yes, this is harassment. How many women need to say so before you believe it? Some women take it better than others, but that they are more deadened to it doesn't make the behavior ok. That so many men continue to make some of the ridiculous justifications I've read here is why the trope of men not understanding women exists.

Or it could be that this is a huge, hilarious case of "white people problems"

Honor killings, forced female circumcision, lack of third world education, ritualistic and societal condoned rape, are real issues for modern feminism. Having to deal with a whistle or two is not.

Neeps		2012-06-22 02:47:35 PM

2 votes:

SultanofSchwing: Oh yet another connection between catcalling and whistling and rape.

Then they have the gall to talk about "misogyny."

This is nothing more than paranoid pants shiatting...it must suck to live your life in constant fear over what might happen.

Got to agree with you.

I once had a man try to abduct me as a teenager, and he certainly didn't bother warning me by whistling first.

The ones who whistle are harmless, to my mind - the rare person who's actually dangerous is the one who sneaks up behind you when you don't even know he's there.

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 02:45:49 PM

2 votes:

In all seriousness, I understand where these women are coming from. The only problem I have is that they seem to have this idea that no one else is ever made to feel uncomfortable in public. People are made to feel uncomfortable all the time, and for various reasons. Most people accept this as a fact of life and get on with their lives without the narcissistic outrage. How do we stop jerks from making us feel uncomfortable in public? Should a cat-calling construction worker be arrested for whistling? The sooner you realize that some people are jerks, and that these jerks don't speak for everyone, the sooner you'll be able to get on with your life. Or you could incessantly play the victim card over every little inconvenience or awkward situation.

Representative of the unwashed masses		2012-06-22 02:43:12 PM

2 votes:

Ok I think I understand now...

img.metro.co.uk

How attractive women may appear in an office setting

zarinas.com

How some of the women posting opinions in this thread want us to react.

_{/nice elbow shape...}

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:37:41 PM

2 votes:

dickfreckle: I'm a guy, so take this for what it's worth, but when I dress well I do it precisely to look handsome and attract positive attention. Otherwise I'd just wear sweatpants everywhere. Women are no different even if the attention they want is from each other.

Respectfully, your comment is incredibly naive.

Yea, you can't wear sweatpants to the office most of the time. Also: wanting to look nice to the people you know, or to your partner, or to people you're interested in IS NOT the same thing as wanting random people to yell at you on the street.

Wyldfire		2012-06-22 02:37:19 PM

2 votes:

So without reading the last 50ish comments, here's my half-penny.

I get told pretty regularly that I have a nice ass in jeans at my work. I take it as a compliment and usually pass it off. Now, were I to say the SAME thing to a female, I could be slammed for harassment.

I don't dress in anything that isn't comfortable, but I also have hit the age where I don't mind being checked out by women...it's a confidence booster and damn it I work pretty hard to try to stay in shape.

The flip side is this: Most women dress comfortably, but they also spend a lot of time trying to find something "cute" or that "is attractive."
I am not of the "catcalling" persuasion, but I am not against looking at a woman that I find to be attractive for a few seconds...it's natural. Men and women both do it (if you REALLY want a citation, I'll drag out my psychology textbooks, but please no).
The problem with perception of women today is that media has sexualized them to a very high degree, and women tend to conform to what society thinks is appropriate, lest be ostracized by the "in crowd."
The problem is that we, as men, are acting as we see in the media just as you, as women, are doing...it doesn't make either side right, but it doesn't make either side exclusively wrong either. Perception needs to be changed for both parties...women need to stop fearing that every guy that looks at her is going to pull her into a dark alley and drive away, and men need to understand that women don't necessarily want our outward advances, but perhaps just a glance and an exchanged look with our buddies.

So yeah...basically, everyone is wrong and I blame bad parenting...or the media...or obama...or bush...or god...or atheists...or public education...but mostly Jersey Shore.

seek3r		2012-06-22 02:34:28 PM

2 votes:

Grungehamster: I was sexually harassed on a regular basis from the year I turned fourteen until the year I left for college. I tried so hard, every day, to ignore it. But I couldn't. It changed me. The irrepressible nervousness when a stranger approached. Being afraid to look any man on the street in the eyes. Worrying I was being followed. Not wanting to leave my house unless I had to. Crying. Not crying until I got home, then crying. Hating myself for crying. Playing the faces of dozens of men back in my mind-I remember them all. Wondering what would have happened if I had bumped into them in a deserted area. The rape nightmares.

But the worst part was how it warped my own view of myself. Maybe it was my fault, I thought. Maybe I was asking for it. It was because I was small and weak, I thought. I hated myself for my own helplessness. Hated myself every time the snappy retort, the "leave me alone," the "stop," bubbled up furiously in my heart only to wilt in my throat. The tiny, illogical, and unshakable fear that no matter how hard I worked, I would never amount to anything more than a body. That my feelings-my disgust, the anger and loathing written all over my face-would deter no one because they simply did not matter. That it would only get worse as I grew older. That my only worth was sexual. That I was less than human. That I was nothing.
/I'm sure this sentiment is already all over this thread, but needed to share probably the best summary of what is wrong with what some people think is harmless flirtation.

Yeah, that post was fine until:

A man boards and sits across from us. He immediately begins staring at me. Intently. Willing my mom not to notice, I read. And he stares. He stares and doesn't stop and I'm trying to muster the courage just to look him in the eye, but I'm afraid. What if that encourages him to do something else? What if my mother sees? I wish that he would just look away, even for one second. But he doesn't. After a few minutes, I put down my book and look up at his face. He is old, older than even my father. I expect him to put his hand on his crotch, to grin obscenely, or to lick his lips, or maybe all three. Instead he just stares. Should I be relieved? People start filtering into the car. Eventually, he looks away.

At which point the author is projecting her previous experiances onto a guy who might be a creep... or he might have an eye condition, thought she looked familiar, be zonked out on pain meds after chemo, etc. He didn't do anything lewd, and while staring at someone *is* a bit creepy, it doesnt fit with the pattern she was trying to illustrate...

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:31:22 PM

2 votes:

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: Office women are even worse, and less subtle. I have been in corporate I.T. for years now, and from time to time the need arises to crawl under a user's desk to test or label a network jack. I have lost count of how many times a women will call her friends over while I'm under her desk on hands and knees only to turn around and see the three or four of them looking on attentively then to breaking into giggles, whispers, and blushing. Then for good measure, invite me to "come back and crawl under my desk anytime".

It's inappropriate to do that in a work environment, period. Especially if it makes you uncomfortable.

The problem though, with trying to make an equal comparison between how men treat women and how women treat men is that it's not equal. We actually do live in a patriarchal society. Sexism isn't something we made up in a fever dream, and neither is rape culture.

That's one that's probably worth meditating on if you are actually interested in understanding this: What rape prevention techniques do you use in your daily life?

Ask the average man that and he'll give you a blank look.

Ask the average woman and she'll give you a long, long list of things that we don't even actively think about most of the time. They're just part of our reality.

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 02:28:20 PM

2 votes:

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: Question for the 'whistling is harassment' crowd? Are you equally outraged by the women who do it to men? It absolutely does happen.

Worked a few years as a courier when I was younger, turns out mail room women and receptionists are not the least bit bashful about commenting on a the fit of a man's shorts, even if he's only 19. Even better when they used the inappropriate comment as a segue into asking me out or inquiring if I'd be interested in doing any side work stripping out of the uniform.

Office women are even worse, and less subtle. I have been in corporate I.T. for years now, and from time to time the need arises to crawl under a user's desk to test or label a network jack. I have lost count of how many times a women will call her friends over while I'm under her desk on hands and knees only to turn around and see the three or four of them looking on attentively then to breaking into giggles, whispers, and blushing. Then for good measure, invite me to "come back and crawl under my desk anytime".

No amount of planning could have kept me out of these areas as they involved my work responsibilities. Surely this is an outrage as well? Right?

The problem is that it's not "women" doing this. It's "Patriarchy". Whenever a man does something creepy, it's because he's a sexist, racist, misogynistic lower life form. Whenever a woman does equally something creepy, it's because of "Patriarchy". Remember that, or you'll never get that Masters in Gender Studies, you Privileged White Male Dudebro, you.

SouthernFriedYankee		2012-06-22 02:27:49 PM

2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day.

You're. Joking. Right?!

I'm not saying men being creeps is excusable. Nor am I advocating puritan frocks. But - c'mon...yes. Yes you DO want attention. Because I've known a lot of smnoking hot girls who deliberately dress down in daily life, because they don't want attention of this sort.

Don't get all dolled up to go to the store and then say "I'm not dressed like this to gewt attention." I call total bullshiat on that.

RibbyK		2012-06-22 02:25:32 PM

2 votes:

Hermione_Granger: No matter what a woman wears (or doesn't wear) - does not give you the right to comment on attire, heckle her, compliment her or whistle at her. Just mind your own damned business and keep your eyes, hands and comments to yourself.

I learned THIS ^^^ about 15 years ago, so women under these conditions I promise to "mind my own business and simply ignore you":

1. When you're two steps behind be as we enter a building or elevator. I won't hold the door.
2. If you're a hooker or stripper in Las vegas
3. I'm single, your single and we're at a wedding reception
4. You ask me a question during a meeting or class, especially if you bat your eyelashed are were late to class
5. A long line at a super market, I have 40 items and you have 2.

Do I think such behavior is impolite or rude? Yes, but it is BY FAR the safest and most socially acceptable thing to do because I ain't no mind reader and guessing women's reactions to ANYTHING is virtually impossible. Pretending you women don't exist is the safest strategy nowadays.

SultanofSchwing		2012-06-22 02:23:10 PM

2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: You know, that's not doing a whole lot to make you sound like anything but a misogynistic asshat.

Yeah clearly I hate, discriminate and objectify all women because I think one is being an overzealous hosebeast.

Is it a faux pas to throw down the "reverse sexism" card on this debate? You all seem to think that every male is a sex driven rapist with absolutely no control over their dick.

fark off back to W Network.

Amos Quito		2012-06-22 02:17:40 PM

2 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: Looks like we're going green. Cue the clueless farktards in 3. . . 2. . .

You pay five bucks a month to say that?

probesport		2012-06-22 02:16:56 PM

2 votes:

Nynaeve224: Why the fark do men think women want to hear it if you think we're hot? We're not going to sleep with you. And it doesn't make us happy to know that you want to fark us. It makes us sick.

One can only assume you are talking about every woman ever or is this one of those "my opinion is the only one that matters" sort of thing?

bangmaid		2012-06-22 02:16:16 PM

2 votes:

"why you walking away? You too good to talk to me?"

"yes. Yes I am, asshole."

It's not that hard.

Hermione_Granger		2012-06-22 02:15:19 PM

2 votes:

LOL. The other day I had a comment deleted for calling someone a dick who was truly being a dick. Some of the posts in this thread will never be deleted and they are some of the most insulting bullshiat I've had the displeasure of reading on FARK.

I can actually say that the idiot white males on FARK think less of all women than they do of black people in particular and minorities in general.

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At		2012-06-22 02:14:47 PM

2 votes:

It's best that men treats women they see on the street like dog shiats on the sidewalk. Ignore and avoid them with indifference.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:14:39 PM

2 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Yes, it does. girls dress like hos because they like being looked at. if you didn't like being looked at, you wouldn't show so much and you would dress more appropriately.

You've got to be trolling. Seriously. So much ignorance in everything you've posted here, and I usually find you intelligent and funny.

[media.giantbomb.com image 461x403]
Only half-troll. Seriously, if someone bugs you, tell them to stop and grow up, but don't go around trying to speak for ALL women as hating attention to their beauty and needing to not "put up" with it, because its a farce.

And when someone objects to the way that you choose to treat them, you stop treating them as such, you don't throw a victim party and act injured about it. Nor do you turn around and harass them further because you're mad.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:13:34 PM

2 votes:

Digital Communist: Do you think you are the only ones who ever feel uncomfortable or insecure in public? Do you think it would be fun if everyone made a big production about how those particular situations made them feel uncomfortable and the world should descend on them to fix it?

Oh, I'm sorry, are you being whistled at and called a prude when you ignore it? Are you followed and harassed just because you chose to get up, get dressed, and go out into the world today?

No?

Then STFU about how other people react to being treated like that. Or at least quit acting so shocked when people don't like it and vocally object.

/it's not about "fun"
//it's about going about my day without HARASSMENT.

Hickory-smoked		2012-06-22 02:11:24 PM

2 votes:

FrancoFile: Troublesome Strumpet: I take it subby isn't a woman who's been harassed on the street.

Can't decide if welcome_to_fark.jpg or successful_troll_is_successful.gif

Sure, it could be either, but there are also men out there who sincerely believe that catcalling women should be taken as a compliment. It's farked up, and nobody should put up with it even in jest.

Nynaeve224		2012-06-22 02:10:59 PM

2 votes:

SultanofSchwing: URAPNIS: Genevieve Marie: Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

Same here.

So your problem is that you don't like the thought that someone found you attractive?

Sounds to me like a man staring at your ass is the least of your issues...

No, your problem is that you're an entitled ass-hat who thinks that all women everywhere live only to serve people with penises.

Why the fark do men think women want to hear it if you think we're hot? We're not going to sleep with you. And it doesn't make us happy to know that you want to fark us. It makes us sick.

It's really not to much to ask to have men keep their horny thoughts to themselves. FFS.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:05:48 PM

2 votes:

SultanofSchwing: So your problem is that you don't like the thought that someone found you attractive?

Spoken like someone who's never been put in that position. Seriously, it sucks. Because the deal is, you don't know anything about the person catcalling at you and who they are, and if they're a safe person to interact with, and there's no reaction that isn't awkward. That's why a lot of women just stare at the ground and speed up their walk.

If you smile at them, or even make eye contact, they typically see it as an indication that they should continue the attention. If you ignore the attention, a lot of them get irritated that you didn't "appreciate the compliment".

Grobbley		2012-06-22 02:05:39 PM

2 votes:

Women are guilty of this same shiat. Typical double standard.

SultanofSchwing		2012-06-22 02:05:34 PM

2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: No, the problem is I don't know what else that man is willing to do if he can't even filter what's coming out of his face.

So, every male who catcalls, whistles, or stares at you for any indeterminate amount of time has a very high potential to be a rapist. Got it.

Welfare Xmas		2012-06-22 02:03:03 PM

2 votes:

Modern society has completely wrung out that last vestiges of the female sense of humor.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:01:34 PM

2 votes:

ciberido		2012-06-22 01:59:56 PM

2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 01:59:23 PM

2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

Seriously. And it makes me then plan out ways that I can avoid being in that particular area ever again. I could give a rat's ass about your intentions when the actual action that you take makes me feel like I need to go home, shower, and throw on a burqa.

Honest Bender		2012-06-22 01:58:46 PM

2 votes:

Jeeze! Sorry, I take it back... you don't look good.

/Lighten up, ladies...

Fano		2012-06-22 01:56:54 PM

2 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: The My Little Pony Killer: That is not about self-esteem. That is about blaming the women for the actions disgusting men choose to take. Leave off all the bullshiat about whistling at women, and remove that idiotic perky cartoon character, keep the part about promising to clean up your farking mess, and quit acting like misogyny is something that you can't control.

Sorry, but when you guys decide to frame the argument in this way, it doesn't make the women look bad for choosing to wear clothing and walk down the street. It makes men look like savage beasts who can't be expected to control themselves.

Troublesome Strumpet: This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

Except it's not suggesting that women should put up with it; it's suggesting that women should take such actions as a compliment! You were so sexy, I just HAD to whistle at you! Blaming the victim while making the perpetrator look like a drooling bag of hormones.

Splitting hairs perhaps, but we are in agreement. Definitely burns me up when I've been catcalled and then they call me a snob or stuck-up biatch if I ignore them, like I owe them the time of day.

Such a perfect blending of username and post

dennysgod		2012-06-22 01:56:40 PM

2 votes:

I think this thread needs a healthy dosing of this:

www.terrariaonline.com

Diogenes		2012-06-22 01:31:22 PM

2 votes:

I think it's offensive to uggos who don't get whistled at.

AbbeySomeone		2012-06-22 01:04:49 PM

2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: That is not about self-esteem. That is about blaming the women for the actions disgusting men choose to take. Leave off all the bullshiat about whistling at women, and remove that idiotic perky cartoon character, keep the part about promising to clean up your farking mess, and quit acting like misogyny is something that you can't control.

Sorry, but when you guys decide to frame the argument in this way, it doesn't make the women look bad for choosing to wear clothing and walk down the street. It makes men look like savage beasts who can't be expected to control themselves.

Troublesome Strumpet: This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

Except it's not suggesting that women should put up with it; it's suggesting that women should take such actions as a compliment! You were so sexy, I just HAD to whistle at you! Blaming the victim while making the perpetrator look like a drooling bag of hormones.

I found the sign to be amusing.
Also, you sound young. Any woman that is middle aged will recall the days when she was 'harrassed' in this fashion.

EatTheWorld		2012-06-22 12:28:32 PM

2 votes:

I dunno, maybe people just need to lighten the fark up. It's not like the sign said " sorry our workers are so horny they cannot help but whistle at you and put their tongue between a finger peace sign. But it's because your hot"

...wait....

Vodka Zombie		2012-06-22 11:35:37 AM

2 votes:

I'm not sure Subby knows what self-esteem actually is.

TotesCrayCray		2012-06-23 05:18:07 PM

1 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: How am I lying?

Women are round and supply to attract mates. You say otherwise.

Still sounds like you're excusing rape and harassment, like "oh well, nothing to be done here, better just put up with it ladies, 'cause you're just meat for male consumption."

Except for the part where I said that it doesn't excuse it. But, knowing WHY something happens tends to take some of the sting out of it. Women are soft and nice to the touch = nature. How we react to that = nurture.

The fact that you refer to me as "sugar text" is also very telling.

You mean that I did it to get this reaction out of you?

We are not just here for your amusement, jerkoff.

Yes. Yes you are, Sugar Text. All humans are here for my amusement.

We're human beings who hope and dream and hurt, too. What can be very little effort on the part of a rapist can destroy someone's life forever, and then that affects everyone around them.

You're equating catcalls with rape. This is disingenuous and pure bullshiat. Either provide data that equates catcallers with rapists or shut the fark up and stop thinking that us guys are all vicious animals.

Stop giving other men a bad name just because you're a farking pig.

I'm not a "pig". I'm kind and respectful to all women. But that's not special treatment. I give everyone the same basic respect as human beings until they give me a reason to do otherwise.

Just like your doing by being farking nutso with your baseless misandry. You hate men. I get it. But saying that catcalls are a sign of a rapist or that catcalling is somehow violating you is just insane. Catcalls are the actions of an idiot, not of a rapist. Real rapists aren't so kind as to give you a warning before they get all rapey.

Hell, I've had crude shiat yelled at me by women and I've had my ass grabbed in public. I didn't feel violated. The ass grabbing was a bit much, but after looking at the situation it was something done by an idiot who was trying to be... cheeky, or something. I didn't turn into a quivering farking mess about it. But I guess asking you to think before you react is a bit much, non?

Besides, Sugar Text, if this is the way you are in person I doubt you'll have to worry much about male attention.

ZombiesYall		2012-06-23 02:11:01 PM

1 votes:

Well Armed Sheep: URAPNIS: maudibjr: Also for selfish reasons, usually if I'm staring, its at a women's awesome rack, I don't want to make her uncomfortable that she covers 'em up. I'm a gentleman that way.

I hate it when the cover em up before I get a peek.
It's like she's thinking "I know he's gonna look, so I had better go ahead and pull my sweater together".
Pfft.

It honestly offends me, because I wasn't looking. Her looking at me, cringing and covering herself up says as much about her dehumanizing attitude towards me as your attempt to look says about your dehumanizing attitude toward her. I know I'm ugly and she is not interested in my eyes being upon her. Pointedly covering herself in this manner is a clear indication of pre-judgement of my behavior. Of COURSE I want to look at her breasts, but I don't because it's not my place and I don't like making people uncomfortable (without provocation, that is). Covering your chest while staring at me as we pass makes me uncomfortable. I understand that you do it because uncouth men stare at your breasts, but just because I am a man doesn't mean I will be uncouth. I look people in the eye. There's also a factor of feeling rejected pre-emptively, by somebody I wasn't even paying much attention to in the first place, other than acknowledging their presence. An unneeded reminder of my lack of sex appeal when I'm just trying to go about my daily routine. Sexual harassment. It's not just 'hey toot/beefcake," it can also be 'keep walkin, skank/fugly'

I could understand if I was looking, but it's usually her glaring at me that draws my attention. Then again, I'm a southern boy who says "Mornin, Ma'am" or "Evenin, Ma'am" (or Sir) to everybody I pass, and I find that sort of awkward behavior incongruous with somebody wishing you a casual good day in passing. Maybe they see me saying hi as some kind of threat.

Sorry, just something I've noticed a bit recently. Is my picture making a circuit on a "beware of this creep" website? I know I bea ...

Saying hello ma'am/sir to every passing stranger while making eye contact is bizarre. Are you some kind of grifter in a Flannery O'Connor short story? Who acts like that?

WhippingBoy		2012-06-23 09:01:53 AM

1 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: You know what would help? If you guys who DON'T rape or molest girls, would call out those of your buddies that do, and stop making excuses like "boys will be boys", because that's also supporting the "men are all rapists and animals'' thing. If others don't see you taking a stand against it, they often assume that you believe it to be normal at least, or tacitly support it at most.

If it bothered you that much I would think you'd want to do your part to stop it.

Wow. You are seriously one farked up individual if you think that most men knowingly hang out with rapists and molesters or would laugh off rape as a "boys being boys" thing. I have a wife; I have a daughter. Do you honestly think that I would ever condone or normalize rape? Oh wait, of course I would. I'm not a human being, I'm an inhuman monster just waiting to pounce, as, of course, are all men.

But hey, rationalize it all you want. Just don't complain about being dehumanized by a whistle or a rude remark until you stop dehumanizing men.

I hope you're getting help for your issues. I really do.

LiberalEastCoastElitist		2012-06-23 07:56:08 AM

1 votes:

I have a very practical reason men should keep their comments to themselves: alot of women in urban areas are packing pepper spray.

That's right boys, I have 4oz of police grade pepper spray and a trigger finger.

/Only half kidding.
//Seriously though, making us sort threatening from non-threatening every day as we go about our business sucks. You made it 10x harder by throwing comments our way that we don't want.
///Isn't "Don't stare at and comment about people" kindergarten level manners?

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-23 07:17:11 AM

1 votes:

DantesDiscoInferno: I don't think there's any kind of dilemma involved in being on the elevator with a man.

You may not, but plenty do.

Since everyone seems to keep missing my point, it is this: if a woman happens to be in a situation where she's uncomfortable or in possible danger, she's going to be harshly judged for whatever choice she makes. How so many of you can wave that away as dumb is disturbing.

And you know what? fark it. I AM scared all the time because some people thought it was alright to harass, grab and/or rape me, and I'm still dealing with that. It's a frustrating uphill battle, and nobody should be left to clean up this kind of mess that someone else inflicted on them.

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-23 04:29:55 AM

1 votes:

eris523: not all men are boors, but jeez guys, men would have more standing if *they* ever called the rude ones out on their boorishness, instead of women having to do it.

This, so much this. If you don't like that guys are perceived as beasts and rapists, tell your friends to stop acting like assholes if you see it happen. They're more likely to listen to you.

TinaSumthing		2012-06-23 02:48:40 AM

1 votes:

WI241TH: I dunno, it seems kind of offensive to me.

stereotyping construction workers like that.

I like getting catcalls...

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-23 02:27:08 AM

1 votes:

See guys, here's the problem:

Say there's a woman waiting for an elevator, and it arrives and when it opens, there's a lone male in there. She has two options here.

She could elect to wait for another elevator, or even if she's already on it by herself and a strange guy gets on, she can step off. Lots of people would tell her she's being rude and paranoid if she does this.

Her other option is she gets or stays on the elevator, whether she's comfortable or not. Usually nothing happens, but in this case, let's say she's raped by the guy. Now, people would be blaming it on her for not protecting herself.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. And it's not all in our head. This happens all the time, the world over, and some of us who have been previously abused (and sadly I imagine that's a lot), sexual and otherwise to the point of low self-esteem, deal with it constantly. We don't need reminders that we're not humans who are allowed our feelings and safety.

ciberido		2012-06-22 11:48:37 PM

1 votes:

CtrlAltDestroy: To you, it's not flirting, it's assault. But to THEM it's not assault, it's flirting. You're assuming that all of them are trying to harm you. They don't actually intend that. It may be crass by most people's definitions, but it's not intended to be harmful or an act of assault.

[..snip..]

I'm not saying that you have to like what they do. Of course you don't. Their intent also doesn't excuse their lack of sophistication. I'm saying that you're wrong for assuming that they're all rapists who want nothing more than to injure you..

Intentionally or no, you've completely misrepresented what a lot of people have been saying. Nobody has said that catcalling is "trying to harm" women. For the most part, what we've said is that it's offensive, harassing, or demeaning, and also creepy/intimidating because there's always a small chance -- a SMALL chance -- that a person who catcalls might try to do something more physical under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

The thing to keep in mind is that you intending to offend me, me being offended, and you being offensive are three different things. It is possible (as has been pointed out many times already) that me being offended by something you do or say is more the result of me being overly sensitive than anything else. It is also possible that you can do or say something very offensive with no intention of offending. One consequence of that is that whether or not the men giving the catcalls "are trying to harm" or "assault" the women their catcalls are directed at IS NOT AT ALL THE POINT.

This video by J Smooth of Ill Doctrine covers this idea, though it's about race rather than gender. It's only 3 minutes long.

CtrlAltDestroy: /I know full well that all of these words will fall upon deaf ears blind eyes.
//I ain't afeared.

Your hypocrisy is that you insist that nobody who disagrees with you with listen to you with an open mind, when you yourself -- by making this claim --- obviously have already judged us and are not prepared to listen to what we have to say.

PsiChick		2012-06-22 11:34:12 PM

1 votes:

WhippingBoy: It's funny how many women assume the whistles are meant for them. Think pretty highly of yourselves, don't you?

Well, no. When I was twelve, a group of twenty-ish men drove by screaming lewd things. That was clearly meant for the invisible women crowding the street in two miles in both directions. And by no means did it make me quite naturally think people who screamed obscenities might be a) diagnosably insane and b) so insane they had no self-control and would come back to hurt me.

Tell you what, why don't we try it with you? In fact, I can even find a pretty nice-looking guy, it's not like the ones in the car were ugly. There's a lot of nice-looking guys who I'm sure are taller, bigger, and stronger than you, and would be more than willing to scream implied rape threats. We can even revert you to twelve! Won't that be a nice compliment?

/And you do realize you're supporting the idea that men are such savages they can't control themselves, right?

ciberido		2012-06-22 11:25:09 PM

1 votes:

Jahx: So grow up. You got what you wanted, and every time you act like a scared child, or throw a temper tantrum, I wonder why we ever gave you those rights if you can't handle them.

Yeah. That tells me all I need to know.

You never GAVE me anything, asshat.

SearchN		2012-06-22 11:10:47 PM

1 votes:

You know, after reading this thread I can only come to 1 conclusion:

Most of you (men and women alike) are idiots. And that's coming from a guy running a boobies list.

/To each there own.
//Don't be a dick in life. Usually works out better that way.

Aupey		2012-06-22 09:58:46 PM

1 votes:

I'm not going to claim that I get whistled at or hit on on a regular basis, but honestly it makes me feel really uncomfortable.
Especially when I'm in a shady part of town visiting somebody.

Or when I was at a mall and some guy trapped you in a photobooth (waiting for somebody that was getting change), but you're just helpless and keep sliding back but realize there's no other exit.
That was scary.
He knew it, too. "I won't hurt you, baby."

Silly Jesus		2012-06-22 09:38:38 PM

1 votes:

I GUARANTEE you that all of the butthurt women folk in this threat would have very different reactions to this guy whistling at them...
4.bp.blogspot.com

VS

...this guy whistling at them...
thumbs.dreamstime.com

therefore, the problem isn't with the whistling. It's with the whistler.

Much in the same vein as this...
1.bp.blogspot.com

"If they like you, it's called flirting."

mtbsunny		2012-06-22 09:19:47 PM

1 votes:

voodoolady: Please point me in the direction of women who find whistling to be a compliment.

Yeah, OK, there's a hand raised in the back here too.

I have never had a problem with whistling or calling out that wasn't profane. If it occurred to me at the time that the whistle was actually for me, I gave a grin and waved. This would bring smiles all around, then we'd go back to doing what we were doing.

On the rare occasions when I was clearly leered at or a man intentionally tried to make me uncomfortable (I can think of two recent incidents), my instinct was to walk past him without speaking. This brought the, "Hey Mama, you too good to talk to me?" to which I met his gaze, smiled genuinely and disarmingly and said, "Sorry, I'm in a hurry. Forgot my manners. Have a good day," as I kept walking.

I just don't see the problem. In fact, I really came to the forum hoping to start a petition to keep the billboard. Is it too late for that? I think it's clever, even if it does exploit the construction-worker-as-catcaller stereotype.

Neeps		2012-06-22 08:31:20 PM

1 votes:

TotesCrayCray: Ok, so I'm only part of the way through this thread, but here's what I've learned.

If a man is anything but absolutely silent, he's a rapist.

There's a whole lotta butthurt going on in here, which I only noticed because I was checking out yo butt.

No no no, you have to worry about the quiet, silent ones too!
How often do you see "we never suspected a thing, he was always so quiet" in a news article? Hmm?

Clearly, silent or not, all men are rapists.

the_vicious_fez		2012-06-22 08:20:00 PM

1 votes:

Jahx: This taps a nerve for me.

I am tired of all the whining I hear from women "I don't want to walk alone in the dark", " I'm afraid of driving through that neighborhood" etc. Stop being afraid. I walk alone in the dark, and I don't care what neighborhood I have to drive through to get to my destination. In fact, none of my male friends have ever said those things to me. But the women have.

So grow up. You got what you wanted, and every time you act like a scared child, or throw a temper tantrum, I wonder why we ever gave you those rights if you can't handle them.

I'll give you a 2/10 because I'm biting.

Here's the thing about having something to prove: no one cares if you succeed and everyone will laugh at you if you fail. Congratulations, you walk through bad neighborhoods in the dark. I used to do that a lot too. Still do occasionally. But I know if I do get mugged, people will ask how it happened and when I talk about walking alone at night through downtown Oakland, I won't get much sympathy.

And if I hear someone bragging about strolling through North Philly alone at night, I'll call them damn stupid.

Canned Tamales		2012-06-22 07:58:34 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: SouthernFriedYankee: The My Little Pony Killer: Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day.

You're. Joking. Right?!

I'm not saying men being creeps is excusable. Nor am I advocating puritan frocks. But - c'mon...yes. Yes you DO want attention. Because I've known a lot of smnoking hot girls who deliberately dress down in daily life, because they don't want attention of this sort.

Don't get all dolled up to go to the store and then say "I'm not dressed like this to gewt attention." I call total bullshiat on that.

I'll dress however I want, and it's your responsibility to keep the way that I'm dressed from affecting your day.

The cry of the over-privileged dimwit calling "privilege" on others. "I can do WHATEVER I want in public, expose any body part, break any cultural norm, and if you respond in any way that I don't personally appreciate(especially if you're my mortal enemy, the WHITE MALE), I'll throw a fit and claim to be some kind of victim."

Guess what, cupcake? You are demanding magical, non-existent rights that no one on earth(except maybe royalty and other tyrants, and nuns, burka-wearers and other victims of tyranny) has ever had, male or female. The right to do anything you please, in public, without so much as a syllable of reaction from anyone you don't want to hear from. Nobody has that right, because it's impossible, self-centered, egomaniacal bullshiat, and would require either psychic powers, or a public "wall of silence" where "certain people" either have their speech rights curtailed, or "certain people" are considered too important or threatened to have to interact like everyone else. Get over yourself, you pathetic crybaby.

And feel free to shove your shiat-eating victim religion up your ignorant, too-precious ass.

Canned Tamales		2012-06-22 07:36:56 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: d1zzy32: Shut your frigid mouth. Nobody cares about you. I do what I want, where I want, especially when I keep my HANDS to myself.

Nope, if you've got such poor control that you can't keep your MOUTH to yourself, what on earth makes you think that I'm going to trust you to keep your HANDS to yourself?

EXACTLY.

I mean obviously you're a farking completely self-centered dimwit who rages at the world for not catering to your every brilliant insight, so I wouldn't trust you to tell any two random things apart.

Canned Tamales		2012-06-22 07:35:03 PM

1 votes:

WhippingBoy: KiTTeNs_on_AciD: Question for the 'whistling is harassment' crowd? Are you equally outraged by the women who do it to men? It absolutely does happen.

Worked a few years as a courier when I was younger, turns out mail room women and receptionists are not the least bit bashful about commenting on a the fit of a man's shorts, even if he's only 19. Even better when they used the inappropriate comment as a segue into asking me out or inquiring if I'd be interested in doing any side work stripping out of the uniform.

Office women are even worse, and less subtle. I have been in corporate I.T. for years now, and from time to time the need arises to crawl under a user's desk to test or label a network jack. I have lost count of how many times a women will call her friends over while I'm under her desk on hands and knees only to turn around and see the three or four of them looking on attentively then to breaking into giggles, whispers, and blushing. Then for good measure, invite me to "come back and crawl under my desk anytime".

No amount of planning could have kept me out of these areas as they involved my work responsibilities. Surely this is an outrage as well? Right?

The problem is that it's not "women" doing this. It's "Patriarchy". Whenever a man does something creepy, it's because he's a sexist, racist, misogynistic lower life form. Whenever a woman does equally something creepy, it's because of "Patriarchy". Remember that, or you'll never get that Masters in Gender Studies, you Privileged White Male Dudebro, you.

Hey, DooD, quit "mansplaining"! You're probably a white male, and you should know by now that while you can safely be blamed for perpetuating every injustice on planet earth and beyond, your perspective is far too corrupted with privilege to be of any use to anyone.

phoolishone		2012-06-22 07:21:14 PM

1 votes:

ZombiesYall: As a woman who is getting old enough that this does not happen much anymore, let me say that it is one of the best things about being older. I feel like I can go about my business, almost as if I am invisible. It is awesome. And when it happened a lot, it sucked. Open admiration from strangers is always creepy.

This!

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 07:15:12 PM

1 votes:

ChimbleySweep: elsuavio: But like what was pointed out earlier, rapists probably won't whistle.

Not all rapists are the ambush-you-in-the-park type. In fact, the majority are not. A great many are the kind who probably will whistle because they like to call attention to themselves and don't care what kind of attention it is because they feel entitled to it either way. And then they slip a roofie in their date's drink.

Also I'll point out again that I was referring to a generalized heightened awareness of risk, not a literal "I think this guy is going to drag me behind a bush and rape me."

But yea, if someone catcalls at me in a parking garage, it's going to make me walk faster to get to my car and away from them. It's going to make me aware that I'm being noticed in a sexual way by a stranger and that I'm alone. I don't have the same reaction on the street, on the street it just mildly annoys me, but there are places where it happens that are scary.

Not because I think they're for sure a dangerous person, but because they might be, and there's no way for me to tell the difference just by looking at them.

I hate I_Hate_Iowa		2012-06-22 06:54:20 PM

1 votes:

I'm not reading the whole thread.

This is just 530 comments of "uptight broads can't take a compliment" right?

Neeps		2012-06-22 06:52:00 PM

1 votes:

GhettoWinter: soooo, never say anything to women ever? right? got it.

This is correct, unless you're rich, hot, and well-endowed.

/Don't they teach you these things in school anymore?

ZombiesYall		2012-06-22 06:40:08 PM

1 votes:

As a woman who is getting old enough that this does not happen much anymore, let me say that it is one of the best things about being older. I feel like I can go about my business, almost as if I am invisible. It is awesome. And when it happened a lot, it sucked. Open admiration from strangers is always creepy.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 06:20:10 PM

1 votes:

elsuavio: What I've learned today: Start whistling and catcalling women. The really insecure, angry, manhating, nasty women will run away and have their days ruined. The nice ones will take it as a compliment and smile and wave.

What you should have learned had you been paying attention: If you catcall and whistle, you have a very small chance of actually frightening a woman, a very small chance of receiving a positive reaction, and a very large chance of getting something along the spectrum from, "Meh" to "Ewwwww...farking nasty! (insert retching sounds here)" Those don't seem like very good odds to justify engaging in the behavior.

But if, as BeesNuts said, you are so insecure in your own masculinity and terrified of being thought gay by your manly friends and coworkers that catcalling and whistling is the only way you can think of to keep a hold of your mancard, well then I don't suppose you are interested in the reaction you are getting.

lake march		2012-06-22 06:16:27 PM

1 votes:

I'm glad that there's a thread where vapid cows can express their displeasure at being incessantly hit on every moment they are in public, but seriously, the world is a harsh place. It sucks that none of you can walk down the street without being harassed because you're so incredibly attractive, and I hope one day humanity changes it's views towards your favor, but until that time comes, you should probably look into some sort of spinal implantation surgery and get over yourselves.

machodonkeywrestler		2012-06-22 05:46:01 PM

1 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: Looks like we're going green. Cue the clueless farktards in 3. . . 2. . .

You already posted.

Digital Communist		2012-06-22 05:26:24 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Digital Communist: Do you think you are the only ones who ever feel uncomfortable or insecure in public? Do you think it would be fun if everyone made a big production about how those particular situations made them feel uncomfortable and the world should descend on them to fix it?

Oh, I'm sorry, are you being whistled at and called a prude when you ignore it? Are you followed and harassed just because you chose to get up, get dressed, and go out into the world today?

No?

Then STFU about how other people react to being treated like that. Or at least quit acting so shocked when people don't like it and vocally object.

/it's not about "fun"
//it's about going about my day without HARASSMENT.

Sorry, you are right. You are the only person who is ever in an uncomfortable situation. Life for everyone else is idyllic and secure.

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 05:03:47 PM

1 votes:

I May Be Crazy But...: Phinn: namegoeshere: "It is offensive" is really all you need to know.

So? Some women are offended. That matters ... why?

Well, and bear with me here, because this is going to sound crazy, apparently women are people. I know, it sounds silly, but that's what the latest research from the egg-heads that study this stuff is showing. I'd always thought they were an animal of some variety, maybe a parrot since parrots can pretend to talk too, but there you go.

I think the point he was trying to make was that everybody, everywhere, everyday gets offended by something. Why does the fact that it happens to women make it exceptional?

I May Be Crazy But...		2012-06-22 04:49:41 PM

1 votes:

Phinn: namegoeshere: "It is offensive" is really all you need to know.

So? Some women are offended. That matters ... why?

Well, and bear with me here, because this is going to sound crazy, apparently women are people. I know, it sounds silly, but that's what the latest research from the egg-heads that study this stuff is showing. I'd always thought they were an animal of some variety, maybe a parrot since parrots can pretend to talk too, but there you go.

ciberido		2012-06-22 04:40:25 PM

1 votes:

namegoeshere: No I didn't report it. This was years ago, and things were different. Being one of a very few females in a male dominated workplace, and having to earn being treated like one of the guys, the fallout from reporting being harassed by a woman would have been worse that the harassment.

One of the major reason for the vast underreporting of sexual harassment against men in years past. The number of reported cases is skyrocketing. (I've posted links upthread already, so forgive me if I don't repost them.)

Another Government Employee		2012-06-22 04:15:44 PM

1 votes:

Which is why I ignore most women.

ciberido		2012-06-22 04:15:44 PM

1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: Yes, confirmation bias is fun and all but you're actually supporting the idea that catcalling is synonymous with pissing on people at random?

No, I'm just pointing out the flaw in the logic behind "Because there is at least one woman who doesn't mind X, that means that there is no universal consensus about X." Somebody else already made basically the same argument using racial epithets as an example instead of urination.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 04:13:10 PM

1 votes:

ciberido: I'm sure sexual harassment of women by women must happen

Oh lord yes it does. One of my many past jobs was in private security. I was sexually harassed like CRAZY. No, not from the guys (okay, one guy. It ended up being his last shift) but from one gay woman. I don't know if she was threatened by a straight feminine-looking female in her territory or what, but she'd call me flower and just be harassing and demeaning in general. It was bad. Fortunately, I got promoted and she left in a huff over it, so there.

No I didn't report it. This was years ago, and things were different. Being one of a very few females in a male dominated workplace, and having to earn being treated like one of the guys, the fallout from reporting being harassed by a woman would have been worse that the harassment.

Shakespeare's Sister		2012-06-22 04:11:57 PM

1 votes:

I think the billboard is funny. I am not at all offended.

Those who are offended only feel that way because they fear that they will no longer be whistled at.

I am 40 (I will be 41 in August); I hope to continue to be whistled at for at least 5 more years.

Ladies: get over it. This billboard has nothing to do with rape, women hating, sexual oppression, or any other issue which you wish to connect it to. It is simply fun.
If you want to concern yourself with real dangers to women, go to any news site of your choice and look up Sudan, Darfur, and other related ideas. Because, truthfully, we are very lucky to live in a country where the sexual implications of a billboard are our biggest fear.

Devlik		2012-06-22 04:09:01 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Because we've actually had it happen to us, genius. It's not jealousy, it's simply us not wanting you to inject your opinions into our days. Is it really that difficult for you to just keep your mouth shut? Seriously?

You know if a man asked a woman the exact same question I have a feeling little Miss Feminist would lose her shiat in a hurry.

inner ted		2012-06-22 04:06:52 PM

1 votes:

Santa's Knee: inner ted: Hermione_Granger: LOL. The other day I had a comment deleted for calling someone a dick who was truly being a dick. Some of the posts in this thread will never be deleted and they are some of the most insulting bullshiat I've had the displeasure of reading on FARK.

I can actually say that the idiot white males on FARK think less of all women than they do of black people in particular and minorities in general.

you got that right

You should hear what we say about black chicks.

i was trying to be clever and illustrate that she had one of the more insulting and b.s. comments.

guess i need a special font for that.

also - how has this not been posted yet in 9 pages, i have no idea:

funnypicturesplus.com

Cubicle Jockey		2012-06-22 04:00:14 PM

1 votes:

KiTTeNs_on_AciD: You've spent far too much time in women's studies courses and not enough living in the world around you.

All you need to know about GM you can learn from this article she wrote back last year. The fark thread was epic.

Link

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 03:55:59 PM

1 votes:

Jon iz teh kewl: not to derail this thread in any, shape, or form. but MARMITE and BUTTER mixed together is the most delicious thing in the universe!

Have you tried apple butter? Honeybutter also excellent.

Neeps		2012-06-22 03:55:10 PM

1 votes:

fonebone77: C'mon people, we all know harassment is determined by the relative hotness of the subjects involved. Construction workers are usually dirty fat middle aged guys so any indication of attraction is obvious harassment. If they happen to be super hot model type guys then they are obviously just paying generous compliments. Know your relative hot ratios and then you will know when its ok to compliment or even look at someone.

Since this sign references construction workers, we know the ratio is going to be off, thus its offensive. Its pretty simple really. Bad move by some Ad Wizard.

You sayin' there's something wrong with dirty fat middle aged guys?

SultanofSchwing		2012-06-22 03:52:15 PM

1 votes:

Thread has moved over to comparisons between racism and peeing on people. I'm guessing 1 more page before it's Godwinned.

Trocadero		2012-06-22 03:51:38 PM

1 votes:

PillsHere		2012-06-22 03:51:11 PM

1 votes:

Let me ask a question for those who think women are being ridiculous for feeling threatened or annoyed by this. What if the girl is 15 and she's not wearing anything provocative, just jeans and a t-shirt. Let's say she might look a little older, but she's still 15 years old. Do you think it's ridiculous for her to feel threatened by a 40 year old man who out-weighs her by 50-100 pounds cat-calling to her on a city street at night?

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 03:50:44 PM

1 votes:

probesport: namegoeshere: Would you use a racial slur to a person of color, and then use that line when they are offended?

Are you assuming that all persons of color take all comments the same way?

Do you use racial slurs at random with the excuse that there may be some of color not offended?

Santa's Knee		2012-06-22 03:50:06 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: namegoeshere: I'm hardly going to troll for cat calls and kick the caller in the nuts in a frenzy of femenist vigilante justice.

I don't know, if we make martinis first, that could actually be a pretty fun way to spend a Friday.

GIRLS NIGHT!

Congrats - you've just undone your whole argument in one shot.

Kampei!

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 03:46:37 PM

1 votes:

nunpunter: Yes, if it were appropriate to the conversation. I don't go around just spewing racial slurs for the fun of it.

So to do so to a random stranger walking by would be a bad thing?

Neeps		2012-06-22 03:44:34 PM

1 votes:

voodoolady: Neeps: voodoolady:

Please point me in the direction of women who find whistling to be a compliment.

*raises hand*

Thanks.

I'm not trying to be rude, but have you ever dated a guy who catcalled at you?

No, but would have considered a couple of them if I had been single at the time.

inner ted		2012-06-22 03:42:33 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Grobbley: Women are guilty of this same shiat. Typical double standard.

Citation.

really?? you need a citation for this??

that's precious.

also: the fact that you equate a guy who cat calls to a rapist is all the stupid i need to see to put a big asterisk next to your posts.

that you ask for a citation to his above claim is just capital stupid.

well done.

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 03:40:50 PM

1 votes:

Kymry		2012-06-22 03:40:37 PM

1 votes:

Your preference that it isn't done at all, precludes the existence of some women who actually find it to be flattering. The Men doing it, have no way of knowing but since there is no definitive "Absolute no, not ever" they keep swinging the bat, in the hopes that maybe 1 does. Even maybe, that little bit of flattery changed their day for them, for the better.

There are cultures in which whistling at women is considered to be significantly less offensive. This isn't one.

Your best bet is to not whistle. In our culture you're more likely to offend than enlighten.

Santa's Knee		2012-06-22 03:39:19 PM

1 votes:

Fano: On Balance: Honest question: Just what are you cat-calling guys going for anyway?
I mean, what's your desired outcome or best case scenario?

They're like a dog chasing a car, they wouldn't know what to do if they actually caught one.

www.funnydogsite.com

Fano		2012-06-22 03:37:45 PM

1 votes:

On Balance: Honest question: Just what are you cat-calling guys going for anyway?
I mean, what's your desired outcome or best case scenario?

They're like a dog chasing a car, they wouldn't know what to do if they actually caught one.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 03:36:02 PM

1 votes:

URAPNIS: namegoeshere: SultanofSchwing: namegoeshere: SultanofSchwing: voodoolady: I find it to be hysterical pathetic that, though a lot of women on here are sharing how this sort of behavior honestly makes them and others feel, some men on here are still trying to tell women how to feel. Newsflash for men: yes, this is harassment. How many women need to say so before you believe it? Some women take it better than others, but that they are more deadened to it doesn't make the behavior ok. That so many men continue to make some of the ridiculous justifications I've read here is why the trope of men not understanding women exists.

Because there is an equal or larger number of women who would get upset at the total lack of appreciation if we all decided to just ignore them completely.

Dear Women,

Pick your complaint: "Men focus too much on me as a sex object." vs "Men pay no attention to me, am I not attractive?"

Don't care, but please decide on a universally accepted stance on the subject and farking stick to it.

Sincerely,
Men

PS. We don't all want to rape you.

Do you know of no way to pay attention to a woman other than to catcall and whistle? Can you not tell a woman that she is attractive to you without treating her as a sex object?

I think I may have found the problem...

The problem is you're getting sucked into the assumption that I do these things to begin with. I'm more concerned with the ridiculous complaints and lack of common sense. There's been a lot of "I'm offended!" cards dropped here, but not a single one that actually rationally explains why it is offensive...there have been plenty of "explanations" that liken it to lack of dick control leading to sexual assault and how it's somehow misogynistic to be complimentary of a woman's appearance.

Ergo, pick a complaint.

"It is offensive" is really all you need to know.

Taking offense to something is a personal choice.

Would you use a racial slur to a person of color, and then use that line when they are offended?

Neeps		2012-06-22 03:32:47 PM

1 votes:

voodoolady:

Please point me in the direction of women who find whistling to be a compliment.

*raises hand*

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 03:31:27 PM

1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: The problem is you're getting sucked into the assumption that I do these things to begin with. I'm more concerned with the ridiculous complaints and lack of common sense. There's been a lot of "I'm offended!" cards dropped here, but not a single one that actually rationally explains why it is offensive...there have been plenty of "explanations" that liken it to lack of dick control leading to sexual assault and how it's somehow misogynistic to be complimentary of a woman's appearance.

Lots of us have explained why it makes us uncomfortable, you just didn't think any of our reasons were good enough and you chose to gloss over them. You also chose to misrepresent what I stated earlier and act like I made a direct correlation between street harassment and rape. I didn't- what I did say was that street harassment makes me worry about my safety, especially when it happens in a place where I'm already worried about my safety.

But here's one more explanation that you're probably going to ignore/rationalize/tell me I'm not allowed to feel: When I am walking down the street, going about my daily business, I am not asking the world to tell me what it thinks about my body. I'm not soliciting opinions on my looks, and I don't know what gives someone else the idea that they should let me know that they approve or disapprove of how I happen to be looking that day.

If nothing else, it's rude.

voodoolady		2012-06-22 03:30:22 PM

1 votes:

DantesDiscoInferno: voodoolady: PS, not all women are the same, that's why there is no "universally accepted stance" on how annoying it is. As I said earlier, some women are deadened. Some are pretty offended. But I've never heard of a woman who was so turned on by it produced the whistler's desired effect.

So then maybe the pantsshiatting terrified ones who think that an unsolicited compliment from a man they don't already know is a signal to run away from the dangerous rapist should understand that not all women (and not even demonstrably the majority of women) have the same reaction of fear and offense that they do, and quit labeling everyone who disagrees with them as 'misogynists'?

Please point me in the direction of women who find whistling to be a compliment.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 03:27:58 PM

1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: namegoeshere: SultanofSchwing: voodoolady: I find it to be hysterical pathetic that, though a lot of women on here are sharing how this sort of behavior honestly makes them and others feel, some men on here are still trying to tell women how to feel. Newsflash for men: yes, this is harassment. How many women need to say so before you believe it? Some women take it better than others, but that they are more deadened to it doesn't make the behavior ok. That so many men continue to make some of the ridiculous justifications I've read here is why the trope of men not understanding women exists.

Because there is an equal or larger number of women who would get upset at the total lack of appreciation if we all decided to just ignore them completely.

Dear Women,

Pick your complaint: "Men focus too much on me as a sex object." vs "Men pay no attention to me, am I not attractive?"

Don't care, but please decide on a universally accepted stance on the subject and farking stick to it.

Sincerely,
Men

PS. We don't all want to rape you.

Do you know of no way to pay attention to a woman other than to catcall and whistle? Can you not tell a woman that she is attractive to you without treating her as a sex object?

I think I may have found the problem...

The problem is you're getting sucked into the assumption that I do these things to begin with. I'm more concerned with the ridiculous complaints and lack of common sense. There's been a lot of "I'm offended!" cards dropped here, but not a single one that actually rationally explains why it is offensive...there have been plenty of "explanations" that liken it to lack of dick control leading to sexual assault and how it's somehow misogynistic to be complimentary of a woman's appearance.

Ergo, pick a complaint.

"It is offensive" is really all you need to know.

Santa's Knee		2012-06-22 03:22:32 PM

1 votes:

probesport: Newsflash: Anyone arguing any extreme of a reasonable discussion will be seen as a complete moron.

againstlineofdance.files.wordpress.com

Bubba_the_Hutt		2012-06-22 03:21:32 PM

1 votes:

Hermione_Granger: Dr. Goldshnoz 2012-06-22 01:58:54 PM

Genevieve Marie: The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

[xaxor.com image 299x370]
Then stop wearing these, dumbass.

No matter what a woman wears (or doesn't wear) - does not give you the right to comment on attire, heckle her, compliment her or whistle at her.

Just mind your own damned business and keep your eyes, hands and comments to yourself.

You've got an uphill battle with Farkers applying their version of the Golden Rule: "I'm going to treat you the way I like to get treated whether you like it or not, while justifying my behavior by saying 'well, women capitalize on being the fairer sex by _____so I can say/do ____,' or 'don't be so easily offended.'"

It's easy for people to set standards for others. Good luck on your fight.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 03:19:27 PM

1 votes:

Nynaeve224: Genevieve Marie: namegoeshere: Oh for farks sake, if you are saying that paying attention to the woman is the problem, you are missing the point completely. Go ahead and pay attention. Smile at her. Make a comment or start a conversation that isn't about her ass or looks in general, while making eye contact. Read her body language - if it seems to go over well, if she responds, introduce yourself. If she seems not into it, move on.

That's flirting.

Whistling and catcalling is not that, and has no purpose other than male bonding. I don't find it frightening usually, but I do find it rude, annoying, and obnoxious. Not at all flattering.

Now a guy taking the time to flirt, with actual non-sexual conversation and eye contact, that's flattering.

And I freakin' love guys who hold the door for me. I will make eye contact with you, smile, and thank you. You then smile back and say you're welcome. A fun random interaction, that.

Agreed completely. And let me say again that I made it clear that it FEELS threatening when it happens in areas where we already don't feel safe. I listed a few of those spaces out. I knew it would get re-framed as "OMG you think all men are rapists" but what I was actually trying to express is that catcalling is annoying at best, and at worst, feels threatening.

That's really not all that hard to understand for anyone but a complete asshat.

Exactly.

Also, the suggestion that we shouldn't be offended unless we know for a fact that the catcallers are actual rapists is moronic. Things other than actual rape can be offensive, too.

I find street harassment and catcalls offensive because it's disrespectful of me as a person. Not because I'm actually in fear of being raped. It does tend to highlight to me that I'm vulnerable. But I don't tend to think catcallers are rapists so much as I think they're just jerks.

The last time someone whistled at me I was super pissed. I was golfing. Some jerk drove by and whistled as I was hitting. Made ...

That. Exactly that. That's the feeling I was trying to explain. It's not that I am in imminent fear of my life, it just brings heightened awareness that I'm vulnerable.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 03:18:11 PM

1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: voodoolady: I find it to be hysterical pathetic that, though a lot of women on here are sharing how this sort of behavior honestly makes them and others feel, some men on here are still trying to tell women how to feel. Newsflash for men: yes, this is harassment. How many women need to say so before you believe it? Some women take it better than others, but that they are more deadened to it doesn't make the behavior ok. That so many men continue to make some of the ridiculous justifications I've read here is why the trope of men not understanding women exists.

Because there is an equal or larger number of women who would get upset at the total lack of appreciation if we all decided to just ignore them completely.

Dear Women,

Pick your complaint: "Men focus too much on me as a sex object." vs "Men pay no attention to me, am I not attractive?"

Don't care, but please decide on a universally accepted stance on the subject and farking stick to it.

Sincerely,
Men

PS. We don't all want to rape you.

Do you know of no way to pay attention to a woman other than to catcall and whistle? Can you not tell a woman that she is attractive to you without treating her as a sex object?

I think I may have found the problem...

Kymry		2012-06-22 03:13:27 PM

1 votes:

But the handful of crazies here would see holding the door open as a precursor to gang rape.

Uh, no.

I have been reading pretty much the whole thread, and not ONE woman here has objected to the common courtesy of door-holding. I'm sure many of us do it for whomever is behind us, regardless of gender, age, race or number of piercings.

Over-reactor is over-reacting.

Ashtrey		2012-06-22 03:12:50 PM

1 votes:

I've never actually seen anyone catcall. Pretty sure the entire world is making it up as part of an elaborate prank on me.

steelkidney		2012-06-22 03:10:33 PM

1 votes:

"I didn't want my daughter to think that was a normal way to think about men yelling at women," Harman said.

Congratulations on being a less-effective parent than a sign

Kymry		2012-06-22 03:08:08 PM

1 votes:

It's particularly awful when it happens in places where you're already watching for your own safety- bad neighborhoods, parking garages, elevators, etc.

Are you farking kidding? How the hell do you ever manage to leave the house if you're that damn afraid of everything? It must suck to be that debilitated by y our utterly irrational fear of men.

You are paranoid. Your crippling fear? It's neither reasonable nor rational. The men in his thread are not the ones who are wrong. You're a misandrist.

Uh, something like one in four women will be raped in their lifetime. I personally, at 34 years of age, know five who were. My sister was attacked walking down the street by a total stranger, and fought him off. So out of all the friends and stuff I have, in a very progressive country, I still know six victims of sexual violence.

So, No. Our fears aren't unfounded. I knew lots of women in NYC who wouldn't even get into an elevator with a man if there were no other people on board.

/I actually am hugely tall so I never had these fears
//not hard to see why many do, though.

macadamnut		2012-06-22 03:06:32 PM

1 votes:

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At		2012-06-22 03:06:08 PM

1 votes:

ciberido: WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: It's best that men treats women they see on the street like dog shiats on the sidewalk. Ignore and avoid them with indifference.

Hey, I got a crazy idea, how about if a man treats women he sees on the street exactly the same way he would treat other men?

Since, you know, we're all so worried about the "double standard" in this thread and all.

Umm. That is how men treats other men on the street... like dog shiats.

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 03:05:35 PM

1 votes:

Representative of the unwashed masses: I'll get a kilt and admonish in very strong tones any woman who wants to see if I am wearing it correctly.

You wanna see female on male "harassment"? Wear a kilt. I've lost track of the number of times I've had to quickly jam my hands on the back of my thighs to prevent some overenthusiastic lass from lifting up my kilt to "see if it was true".

/piper in a marching band

voodoolady		2012-06-22 03:02:02 PM

1 votes:

I find it to be ~~hysterical~~ pathetic that, though a lot of women on here are sharing how this sort of behavior honestly makes them and others feel, some men on here are still trying to tell women how to feel. Newsflash for men: yes, this is harassment. How many women need to say so before you believe it? Some women take it better than others, but that they are more deadened to it doesn't make the behavior ok. That so many men continue to make some of the ridiculous justifications I've read here is why the trope of men not understanding women exists.

SouthernFriedYankee		2012-06-22 03:01:40 PM

1 votes:

I May Be Crazy But...: For all the guys who are arguing that you ought to be able to whistle or whatever at a woman, step back a second. It's not just about you. Clearly a lot of them don't like it. If you're not going to stop because of that alone, then stop so you quit ruining it for the rest of us. We like seeing them in clothes that they look good in and when they're confident, so don't give them reason not to.

I can agree with this, as well. I'm not justifying guys who act like baboons, I'm just saying that the vitriolic responses to it are a bit much, especially when the girl in question is walking down the street on a Wednesday afternoon dressed up like she's out for a night on the town.

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 03:01:36 PM

1 votes:

nunpunter: If you feel objectified and dirty because of a strangers comment, then that says a lot more about you than it does the stranger.

I agree. You've just given a random (jerky) stranger an incredible amount of power over you. And that truly is sad.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 02:59:35 PM

1 votes:

Oh for farks sake, if you are saying that paying attention to the woman is the problem, you are missing the point completely. Go ahead and pay attention. Smile at her. Make a comment or start a conversation that isn't about her ass or looks in general, while making eye contact. Read her body language - if it seems to go over well, if she responds, introduce yourself. If she seems not into it, move on.

That's flirting.

Whistling and catcalling is not that, and has no purpose other than male bonding. I don't find it frightening usually, but I do find it rude, annoying, and obnoxious. Not at all flattering.

Now a guy taking the time to flirt, with actual non-sexual conversation and eye contact, that's flattering.

And I freakin' love guys who hold the door for me. I will make eye contact with you, smile, and thank you. You then smile back and say you're welcome. A fun random interaction, that.

Neeps		2012-06-22 02:52:44 PM

1 votes:

I May Be Crazy But...: Neeps: I May Be Crazy But...: Maud Dib: Soo, I'm guessing this is not the thread to be asking for BIE?

Maybe if you want oiled up man boobs.

Are you offering?

I could be convinced...

Of course, everyone might wonder what I'm doing in my office.

*whistles loudly at I May Be Crazy But...*
Flash me those man-boobs, baby!

feffer		2012-06-22 02:51:38 PM

1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: But I'm gonna go ahead and judge by the fact that there's a whole 3 women people in this thread seriously mad about it, It's not actually a big deal for most of the world and you are quite possibly over reacting, and mad..

Yeah, it certainly is a puzzler why there aren't more women in a misogyny thread.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:50:36 PM

1 votes:

Tat'dGreaser: Genevieve Marie: Yup, me too. As it turns out, there are actually quite a lot of assholes in the world.

I know we've had our differences in the past, but I have to agree with you. This sh*t is making me ill. Hell just early today I had to argue with someone who was upset a woman defended herself from sexual assault.

Ugh. Yea, and I know we have, but I've generally considered you a good egg anyway.

And you know what's really crazy? How many people aren't willing to believe that the attitudes of people on the internet correspond towards the attitudes of a lot of people in real life. I've long believed that the internet makes people more comfortable with expression opinions they know aren't socially acceptable, but that doesn't mean they're lying about how they feel.

KiTTeNs_on_AciD		2012-06-22 02:46:06 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: KiTTeNs_on_AciD: Office women are even worse, and less subtle. I have been in corporate I.T. for years now, and from time to time the need arises to crawl under a user's desk to test or label a network jack. I have lost count of how many times a women will call her friends over while I'm under her desk on hands and knees only to turn around and see the three or four of them looking on attentively then to breaking into giggles, whispers, and blushing. Then for good measure, invite me to "come back and crawl under my desk anytime".

It's inappropriate to do that in a work environment, period. Especially if it makes you uncomfortable.

The problem though, with trying to make an equal comparison between how men treat women and how women treat men is that it's not equal. We actually do live in a patriarchal society. Sexism isn't something we made up in a fever dream, and neither is rape culture.

That's one that's probably worth meditating on if you are actually interested in understanding this: What rape prevention techniques do you use in your daily life?

Ask the average man that and he'll give you a blank look.

Ask the average woman and she'll give you a long, long list of things that we don't even actively think about most of the time. They're just part of our reality.

Right, it's not the same thing. Not an 'equal comparison' because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion of all men bad, all women victims.

I'm 31, I've spent the vast majority of my career reporting to women bosses, being educated by women teachers, having a women governor, the home I grew up in was not a male-dominated patriarchy.

But because you're view of society differs from my real life experience, I'm less entitled to the same courtesy you demand.

What a hypocrite.

You've spent far too much time in women's studies courses and not enough living in the world around you.

ciberido		2012-06-22 02:45:24 PM

1 votes:

WTF_Are_You_Looking_At: It's best that men treats women they see on the street like dog shiats on the sidewalk. Ignore and avoid them with indifference.

Hey, I got a crazy idea, how about if a man treats women he sees on the street exactly the same way he would treat other men?

Since, you know, we're all so worried about the "double standard" in this thread and all.

moike		2012-06-22 02:44:43 PM

1 votes:

"Yo, baby, you ever had your asshole licked by a fat man in an overcoat?"

Nana's Vibrator		2012-06-22 02:42:32 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer:
I'll dress however I want, and it's your responsibility to keep the way that I'm dressed from affecting your day.

Maybe you're just pissed at a guy who has the ability to post on Fark, but you know better than this, right? If everyone obeyed the laws, no one would be afraid. Dress smart. Lots of idiots out there.

SpiderZia		2012-06-22 02:42:11 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Grobbley: I could probably make a good case that you are being offensive by assuming that I'm a rapist just because I think you look nice and decided to make you aware of that thought.

*facepalm*

Is it too early to have a drink? These threads always make me want to crack open a bottle of wine and go look at pictures of kittens doing funny things.

It is past time, I believe. Also a good time to head to peopleofwalmart.com to look at people who will never ever get whistled at. Ever.

ciberido		2012-06-22 02:41:20 PM

1 votes:

Digital Communist: Point in case, the mural FTA was removed because it was offensive to women, never mind the fact that it makes men all seem like jeering neanderthals.

Funny thing is, if you scroll back a bit, you'll see the point that the mural arguably insults men as well was made earlier in the thread, yet we don't have a dozen Farkers hastily ratcheting their defence mechanisms up to Defcon 1 in reaction to THAT claim.

Digital Communist: If a man complained that a woman said something to the effect of "You look nice today" he would be summarily dismissed. If a woman complains, we get a fark thread.

I hate to break this to you, but it's not 1981 anymore. Men DO make accusations of sexual harassment. And
win them.

Funny thing is, a lot of the people who sexually harass men are ... other men. Not all, obviously, but a disturbingly large percentage. I'm not sure how that fits into your "double standard" scenario.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:41:08 PM

1 votes:

Grobbley: I could probably make a good case that you are being offensive by assuming that I'm a rapist just because I think you look nice and decided to make you aware of that thought.

*facepalm*

Is it too early to have a drink? These threads always make me want to crack open a bottle of wine and go look at pictures of kittens doing funny things.

Santa's Knee		2012-06-22 02:41:00 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: DantesDiscoInferno: Genevieve Marie: Grobbley: Your thoughts and routines are interrupted by a passing comment? What if a lady were to say "That's a pretty dress you are wearing"? Would that cause you to freak out as well?

No, because I would not immediately fear for my safety and have to start checking to make sure that someone else was around and that I wasn't alone with a stranger expressing unwanted sexual interest in me.

It's particularly awful when it happens in places where you're already watching for your own safety- bad neighborhoods, parking garages, elevators, etc.

Are you farking kidding? How the hell do you ever manage to leave the house if you're that damn afraid of everything? It must suck to be that debilitated by y our utterly irrational fear of men.

You are paranoid. Your crippling fear? It's neither reasonable nor rational. The men in his thread are not the ones who are wrong. You're a misandrist.

Cool story, bro. See you in the next rape thread where we can read a hundred comments about how if the victim had just USED COMMON SENSE and looked out for herself, nothing would have happened to her.

Yeah, because that line of comments are not trolling but the actual rational of the farkers.

Everytime you post confirms why you are a TFer.

Grobbley		2012-06-22 02:39:33 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: No, because I would not immediately fear for my safety and have to start checking to make sure that someone else was around and that I wasn't alone with a stranger expressing unwanted sexual interest in me.

If you fear for your safety because of any compliment from a man, you have an irrational fear. The number of rapists vs the number of catcallers is nowhere near equal. And a rapist is almost certainly not going to give you warning before he jumps on you.

I could probably make a good case that you are being offensive by assuming that I'm a rapist just because I think you look nice and decided to make you aware of that thought.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:38:47 PM

1 votes:

DantesDiscoInferno: Genevieve Marie: Grobbley: Your thoughts and routines are interrupted by a passing comment? What if a lady were to say "That's a pretty dress you are wearing"? Would that cause you to freak out as well?

No, because I would not immediately fear for my safety and have to start checking to make sure that someone else was around and that I wasn't alone with a stranger expressing unwanted sexual interest in me.

It's particularly awful when it happens in places where you're already watching for your own safety- bad neighborhoods, parking garages, elevators, etc.

Are you farking kidding? How the hell do you ever manage to leave the house if you're that damn afraid of everything? It must suck to be that debilitated by y our utterly irrational fear of men.

You are paranoid. Your crippling fear? It's neither reasonable nor rational. The men in his thread are not the ones who are wrong. You're a misandrist.

Cool story, bro. See you in the next rape thread where we can read a hundred comments about how if the victim had just USED COMMON SENSE and looked out for herself, nothing would have happened to her.

Santa's Knee		2012-06-22 02:38:00 PM

1 votes:

Maud Dib: Soo, I'm guessing this is not the thread to be asking for BIE?

You need to look at the profiles first.

Always look at the profiles...

ProfessorOhki		2012-06-22 02:37:40 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: d1zzy32: Shut your frigid mouth. Nobody cares about you. I do what I want, where I want, especially when I keep my HANDS to myself.

Nope, if you've got such poor control that you can't keep your MOUTH to yourself, what on earth makes you think that I'm going to trust you to keep your HANDS to yourself?

You've got your escalations inverted. You're assuming that since someone has poor impulse control over something that has little consequence they have equally poor impulse control over something that has more serious consequence. It's like saying, "I don't trust my friend not to steal my french fries when I turn my head, so I'm certainly not going to trust him to not rob a bank."

RibbyK		2012-06-22 02:36:33 PM

1 votes:

Hermione_Granger: I can actually say that the idiot white males on FARK think less of all women than they do of black people in particular and minorities in general.

Wow, you can "actually say" that. Actually say it all you like but it doesn't make it true, unless of course you have a citation, a demographic study on how "idiot white males" think. Cosmo magazine may help you here.

Y U so mad?

DantesDiscoInferno		2012-06-22 02:36:04 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Grobbley: Your thoughts and routines are interrupted by a passing comment? What if a lady were to say "That's a pretty dress you are wearing"? Would that cause you to freak out as well?

No, because I would not immediately fear for my safety and have to start checking to make sure that someone else was around and that I wasn't alone with a stranger expressing unwanted sexual interest in me.

It's particularly awful when it happens in places where you're already watching for your own safety- bad neighborhoods, parking garages, elevators, etc.

Are you farking kidding? How the hell do you ever manage to leave the house if you're that damn afraid of everything? It must suck to be that debilitated by y our utterly irrational fear of men.

You are paranoid. Your crippling fear? It's neither reasonable nor rational. The men in his thread are not the ones who are wrong. You're a misandrist.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:35:46 PM

1 votes:

Grungehamster: Genevieve Marie: SultanofSchwing: So your problem is that you don't like the thought that someone found you attractive?

Spoken like someone who's never been put in that position. Seriously, it sucks. Because the deal is, you don't know anything about the person catcalling at you and who they are, and if they're a safe person to interact with, and there's no reaction that isn't awkward. That's why a lot of women just stare at the ground and speed up their walk.

If you smile at them, or even make eye contact, they typically see it as an indication that they should continue the attention. If you ignore the attention, a lot of them get irritated that you didn't "appreciate the compliment".

Actually, I read the article I shared through Andrew Sullivan's blog a few months back, and one of the responses was from a guy who suddenly "got" why it seemed to him all hot women were stuck-up biatches who seemed to walk down the street while pretending not to notice anyone. At least some of the time it's a coping mechanism to avoid giving some cue to a creep that invites an inappropriate action.

Another was a teacher who had a male student share that a gay man hit on him while alone together and he felt so scared when it happened because he wasn't sure if spurning the dude's advances might result in the guy forcing himself on this student. Teacher asks the kid about girls getting catcalled, and suddenly it dawned on him too.

Yup, that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Also... the example someone gave above is unintentionally revealing- the one about "Send a shirtless guy down the street all oiled up and you'll see the same thing happen to him, so CATCALLING HAPPENS TO DUDES TOO!"

That analogy only works if that's what he thinks women are doing- intentionally sexualizing ourselves to elicit attention. For a lot of us... catcalling happens when we walk down the street dressed in office appropriate clothing while we're going about our day to day lives.

Santa's Knee		2012-06-22 02:32:08 PM

1 votes:

dickfreckle		2012-06-22 02:31:54 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day.

C'mon, do you genuinely believe this?

I'm a guy, so take this for what it's worth, but when I dress well I do it precisely to look handsome and attract positive attention. Otherwise I'd just wear sweatpants everywhere. Women are no different even if the attention they want is from each other.

Respectfully, your comment is incredibly naive.

Neeps		2012-06-22 02:30:43 PM

1 votes:

Grobbley: The My Little Pony Killer: Grobbley: Women are guilty of this same shiat. Typical double standard.

Citation.

Find an attractive male, have him walk down the street with his shirt off. Oil him up for extra effect. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about. I've seen women treat men as pieces of meat just the same. It might not happen as frequently, but it happens. If you deny that fact you are delusional.

I'd whistle at that. Is it wrong?

Also this thread needs more pictures of attractive, oiled, shirtless men.

/female

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:29:46 PM

1 votes:

SouthernFriedYankee: The My Little Pony Killer: Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day.

You're. Joking. Right?!

I'm not saying men being creeps is excusable. Nor am I advocating puritan frocks. But - c'mon...yes. Yes you DO want attention. Because I've known a lot of smnoking hot girls who deliberately dress down in daily life, because they don't want attention of this sort.

Don't get all dolled up to go to the store and then say "I'm not dressed like this to gewt attention." I call total bullshiat on that.

I'll dress however I want, and it's your responsibility to keep the way that I'm dressed from affecting your day.

Grungehamster		2012-06-22 02:29:42 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: SultanofSchwing: So your problem is that you don't like the thought that someone found you attractive?

Spoken like someone who's never been put in that position. Seriously, it sucks. Because the deal is, you don't know anything about the person catcalling at you and who they are, and if they're a safe person to interact with, and there's no reaction that isn't awkward. That's why a lot of women just stare at the ground and speed up their walk.

If you smile at them, or even make eye contact, they typically see it as an indication that they should continue the attention. If you ignore the attention, a lot of them get irritated that you didn't "appreciate the compliment".

Actually, I read the article I shared through Andrew Sullivan's blog a few months back, and one of the responses was from a guy who suddenly "got" why it seemed to him all hot women were stuck-up biatches who seemed to walk down the street while pretending not to notice anyone. At least some of the time it's a coping mechanism to avoid giving some cue to a creep that invites an inappropriate action.

Another was a teacher who had a male student share that a gay man hit on him while alone together and he felt so scared when it happened because he wasn't sure if spurning the dude's advances might result in the guy forcing himself on this student. Teacher asks the kid about girls getting catcalled, and suddenly it dawned on him too.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:28:53 PM

1 votes:

d1zzy32: Shut your frigid mouth. Nobody cares about you. I do what I want, where I want, especially when I keep my HANDS to myself.

Nope, if you've got such poor control that you can't keep your MOUTH to yourself, what on earth makes you think that I'm going to trust you to keep your HANDS to yourself?

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:27:45 PM

1 votes:

Grobbley: The My Little Pony Killer: Grobbley: Women are guilty of this same shiat. Typical double standard.

Citation.

Find an attractive male, have him walk down the street with his shirt off. Oil him up for extra effect. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about. I've seen women treat men as pieces of meat just the same. It might not happen as frequently, but it happens. If you deny that fact you are delusional.

Find me an attractive male who is walking down the street with his shirt off, oiled up? I asked for a citation, not your deepest darkest fantasy.

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 02:25:52 PM

1 votes:

sycraft: Genevieve Marie: No... we DON'T KNOW if the man who catcalls, whistles, or stares at us so we notice him staring has the potential to be a rapist. Sadly enough, rapists don't wear freaking signs and announce "Hey, I'm scary and dangerous and you should stay away from me."

And anyone that gives us unwanted attention sends up a red flag and puts us on our guard a bit. That's the reality of being a woman.

The problem is what constitutes unwanted attention? I can understand if someone makes a degrading comment sure, but if someone says you look good? If someone looks at you?

The problem I see is that more than a few women who want NO attention from men they are not interested in. Well sorry, but that doesn't really work. We can't read your minds, we can't tell if we are someone who is ok to flirt or not. We can only try and fail. Well I guess we can also just not ever flirt, that's kinda what I do being shy, but overall that wouldn't work very well.

So sure when a guy makes a derogatory comment, or tries to get physically in your way, that is inappropriate. However if a guy is flirting with you and you aren't interested? Just say so. It isn't harassment.

That or figure out a way to immediately let guys know if flirting or ok or now.

Do you consider cat calling and whistling at a stranger walking by to be flirting?

Dude, you're doing it wrong.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:25:39 PM

1 votes:

Kymry: Yeah, I've received nice compliments on the street before. Some random guy walked by me once and said, "Miss, you look lovely today." Smiled and kept walking. It was not threatening, it was charming. I dunno if anyone can get away with this, but this guy obviously had practice.

Anyone who walks by and eyes you, then whistles or catcalls or leers or grabs their crotch is, whether they mean it or not, making a threat of sexual violence.

I'm honestly going with the idea that 99.9% of them are unaware that women feel this way about their attentions. But it doesn't change that that's how we feel. Dirty, like we are just an object for their pleasure.

/okay sometimes that's good
//but not with strangers on the street

You know, I have to. There's definitely a way to compliment a stranger and have it come off as nice instead of creepy. It just involves some actual consideration for that person as a human being and not making them feel threatened.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:25:17 PM

1 votes:

Neato: No, it does mean you have to put up with it. Freedom of expression means they can say what they want. Until it gets threatening or unless they follow you, it likely wouldn't be illegal. You are free to hate it and despise them as much as you want, however. But it does mean you have to allow it.

No, I do NOT have to put up with it. Illegal or not, I did not ask them to inject themselves into my life, and by them doing so in such a manner, they are showing me that they ARE threatening as they have poor impulse control. I do NOT have to allow it.

And that also means that you can't act hurt when women DON'T accept you acting like a jackass out of the blue.

Nynaeve224		2012-06-22 02:24:59 PM

1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: Nynaeve224: SultanofSchwing: URAPNIS: Genevieve Marie: Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

Same here.

So your problem is that you don't like the thought that someone found you attractive?

Sounds to me like a man staring at your ass is the least of your issues...

No, your problem is that you're an entitled ass-hat who thinks that all women everywhere live only to serve people with penises.

Why the fark do men think women want to hear it if you think we're hot? We're not going to sleep with you. And it doesn't make us happy to know that you want to fark us. It makes us sick.

It's really not to much to ask to have men keep their horny thoughts to themselves. FFS.

I'm sorry that you're under the assumption I sit on my deck whistling at everything that walks by. I'm also sorry that you're an overzealous hosebeast.

This is the best you got?

*snort laugh*

Idiot.

Five Tails of Fury		2012-06-22 02:24:22 PM

1 votes:

ginandbacon: Those comments are disgusting.

You'd think they would have problems typing with their knuckles dragging on the ground like that.

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 02:23:51 PM

1 votes:

It's funny how many women assume the whistles are meant for them. Think pretty highly of yourselves, don't you?

Neeps		2012-06-22 02:23:01 PM

1 votes:

BeSerious: I saw a girl get whistled at just the other day, she smiled and waved.

/She was hawt
//csb

That's pretty much my reaction when it happens too.

I like being whistled at, and I don't consider that harassment at all.

Harassment is the ones who stop you in the street and demand a date, and won't go away even when you tell them you aren't interested. They're annoying.

/Doesn't happen as often as it used to
//I need to get to the gym more often
///I sound fat now

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 02:22:52 PM

1 votes:

sycraft: However if a guy is flirting with you and you aren't interested? Just say so. It isn't harassment.

Catcalling isn't flirting. It's not a date getting strategy and it's not an attempt at conversation. Try again.

Santa's Knee		2012-06-22 02:22:14 PM

1 votes:

Amos Quito: Hermione_Granger: LOL. The other day I had a comment deleted for calling someone a dick who was truly being a dick. Some of the posts in this thread will never be deleted and they are some of the most insulting bullshiat I've had the displeasure of reading on FARK.

I can actually say that the idiot white males on FARK think less of all women than they do of black people in particular and minorities in general.

You sound like a professional victim.

And fat.

I May Be Crazy But...		2012-06-22 02:21:22 PM

1 votes:

Neato: No, it does mean you have to put up with it. Freedom of expression means they can say what they want. Until it gets threatening or unless they follow you, it likely wouldn't be illegal. You are free to hate it and despise them as much as you want, however. But it does mean you have to allow it.

That's a load of horseshiat. The line between decent behavior and being rude isn't the same as the line between constitutional and not. Unless the Senate finally passes the Dat Ass Bill I've been sending to my senator.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:20:53 PM

1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: Also I have never even personally witnessed this so I'm also confused as to how many women are actually up in arms over it happening rather than the prospect of it happening. If you haven't gotten whistled at, and you are mad that other woman have, maybe you are just envious?

Because we've actually had it happen to us, genius. It's not jealousy, it's simply us not wanting you to inject your opinions into our days. Is it really that difficult for you to just keep your mouth shut? Seriously?

SpiderZia		2012-06-22 02:19:51 PM

1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: SpiderZia: The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that it's not a compliment in the eyes of the women that you're doing it to, no matter how much you really really want it to be, so knock it off. Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day. Let them.

This. It's obnoxious. To be fair, I never get whistled at. My friends do. I assume that means I don't get an opinion, yes?

[i.qkme.me image 472x472]
Pretty much. Some day Leonardo Dicaprio(or enter whatever celeb you heartthrob over) may whistle at you and you will be ecstatic with yourself because such a hot man found you hot.

Also I have never even personally witnessed this so I'm also confused as to how many women are actually up in arms over it happening rather than the prospect of it happening. If you haven't gotten whistled at, and you are mad that other woman have, maybe you are just envious?

Could be. Could also be that I agree with Genevieve Marie on the fact that no matter what I personally have experienced, a catcall is not a compliment. Someone actually coming up to a woman and respectfully telling her she's beautiful is a far farking cry from a whistle and a holler.

/has no clue what the hell you're going on about with the celeb comment, however

sycraft		2012-06-22 02:19:41 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: No... we DON'T KNOW if the man who catcalls, whistles, or stares at us so we notice him staring has the potential to be a rapist. Sadly enough, rapists don't wear freaking signs and announce "Hey, I'm scary and dangerous and you should stay away from me."

And anyone that gives us unwanted attention sends up a red flag and puts us on our guard a bit. That's the reality of being a woman.

The problem is what constitutes unwanted attention? I can understand if someone makes a degrading comment sure, but if someone says you look good? If someone looks at you?

The problem I see is that more than a few women who want NO attention from men they are not interested in. Well sorry, but that doesn't really work. We can't read your minds, we can't tell if we are someone who is ok to flirt or not. We can only try and fail. Well I guess we can also just not ever flirt, that's kinda what I do being shy, but overall that wouldn't work very well.

So sure when a guy makes a derogatory comment, or tries to get physically in your way, that is inappropriate. However if a guy is flirting with you and you aren't interested? Just say so. It isn't harassment.

That or figure out a way to immediately let guys know if flirting or ok or now.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:19:17 PM

1 votes:

Grobbley: Genevieve Marie: Yes, because having our own thoughts and routines interrupted so that someone we don't know whose attention we didn't seek can let us know that he finds us sufficiently farkable is something we should enjoy.

Your thoughts and routines are interrupted by a passing comment? What if a lady were to say "That's a pretty dress you are wearing"? Would that cause you to freak out as well?

Seriously, if you don't like it you can just ignore it, I don't see what is so hard about that. You are allowing your thoughts and routines to be interrupted, you are allowing these people to get to you. If comments made by someone you don't know whose attention you didn't seek can have such a major effect on you, you have greater issues than you realize.

Mmmm, I love the smell of victim blaming in the morning.

How hard is it for you to just keep your opinions to yourself? Seriously? This goes back to that poor impulse control argument I was making. You're proving me right.

Neato		2012-06-22 02:18:59 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Troublesome Strumpet: AbbeySomeone: The My Little Pony Killer: That is not about self-esteem. That is about blaming the women for the actions disgusting men choose to take. Leave off all the bullshiat about whistling at women, and remove that idiotic perky cartoon character, keep the part about promising to clean up your farking mess, and quit acting like misogyny is something that you can't control.

Sorry, but when you guys decide to frame the argument in this way, it doesn't make the women look bad for choosing to wear clothing and walk down the street. It makes men look like savage beasts who can't be expected to control themselves.

Troublesome Strumpet: This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

Except it's not suggesting that women should put up with it; it's suggesting that women should take such actions as a compliment! You were so sexy, I just HAD to whistle at you! Blaming the victim while making the perpetrator look like a drooling bag of hormones.

I found the sign to be amusing.
Also, you sound young. Any woman that is middle aged will recall the days when she was 'harrassed' in this fashion.

Yeah, not everyone likes it, and not everyone understands that there's a line between "You look nice today" and "Woo baby I wanna tap that! Hey, where you going? What, too good to talk to me? biatch!"

Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

No, it does mean you have to put up with it. Freedom of expression means they can say what they want. Until it gets threatening or unless they follow you, it likely wouldn't be illegal. You are free to hate it and despise them as much as you want, however. But it does mean you have to allow it.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:17:23 PM

1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: I'm also sorry that you're an overzealous hosebeast.

Here's that entitled attitude again.

She won't take my "compliment" that she never asked for in the first place, so she must be a biatch.

BeSerious		2012-06-22 02:17:13 PM

1 votes:

I saw a girl get whistled at just the other day, she smiled and waved.

/She was hawt
//csb

EightyEight		2012-06-22 02:17:05 PM

1 votes:

seems to me the same women who get mad at a whistle get home and are pissed because their man doesn't notice or compliment their new haircut which is 1/4" shorter, slightly different shade of beige pants, or new shoes that look exactly like ten other pair she owns.

Dr. Goldshnoz		2012-06-22 02:16:14 PM

1 votes:

SpiderZia: The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that it's not a compliment in the eyes of the women that you're doing it to, no matter how much you really really want it to be, so knock it off. Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day. Let them.

This. It's obnoxious. To be fair, I never get whistled at. My friends do. I assume that means I don't get an opinion, yes?

i.qkme.me

Pretty much. Some day Leonardo Dicaprio(or enter whatever celeb you heartthrob over) may whistle at you and you will be ecstatic with yourself because such a hot man found you hot.

Also I have never even personally witnessed this so I'm also confused as to how many women are actually up in arms over it happening rather than the prospect of it happening. If you haven't gotten whistled at, and you are mad that other woman have, maybe you are just envious?

WhippingBoy		2012-06-22 02:15:59 PM

1 votes:

The level of outrage is directly proportional to the attractiveness of the construction workers in question.

I've had guys whistle at me before. Made me feel kinda flattered...

lenfromak		2012-06-22 02:15:34 PM

1 votes:

I am amazed how these online petitions such as the ones from change.org have any value at all. Anyone with a beef who can type can start one. I get several requests per week from them. They lead with something that any freedom-loving Libertarian could go for. I "sign" it, then they follow with something hopelessly socialist in nature, and then I go back to Fark.

WTFDYW		2012-06-22 02:14:49 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Grobbley: The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that it's not a compliment in the eyes of the women that you're doing it to, no matter how much you really really want it to be, so knock it off. Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day. Let them.

This just in, The My Little Pony Killer speaks for all women.

/I've had plenty of women give me positive reactions when I indicate that they are beautiful. Surprisingly enough, not all women are biatches all of the time.
//I understand if you don't like it, just ignore it and move on, or remove the stick from your ass and take a compliment instead of throwing a fit

It's not a compliment though, and I refuse to take it as such just because it makes you feel bad (you poor farking baby) or just because other women don't rightfully put you in your place. Girls are brought up from a very young age to be NICE to everybody, so I'm not surprised that you somehow think that their "acceptance" of your "compliment" makes you think that you somehow have a right to act like an animal in public. I'm not a biatch just because I find you slimey, you're the asshole who initiated the situation in the first place.

And no, I will not just ignore it and move on, because as I said earlier, it makes pieces of shiat like you think that what you are doing is okay, when it is ANYTHING but.

You're real fun at parties I bet.

Nana's Vibrator		2012-06-22 02:14:29 PM

1 votes:

One unfortunate issue here is that a lot of women LIKE and WANT catcalls (not a member of the catcaller brigade). That, to me, is an unfortunate mixed signal. If I ever had the inclination to catcall, I'd still decline because successfully living out in the world is all about serving the lowest common denominator.

Since women as a gender will never get on the same page and fight to stop this behavior, and men will never come to a consensus to stop it either, I'd suggest any woman disgusted or turned off by catcalls should shoot the offender in the face with a rocket launcher.

/perhaps a well-placed anonymous note that allows the jerk(s) to understand that you think they are as obnoxious and filthy as they think you are hot. Of course, that would mean they have to care what you think.

SultanofSchwing		2012-06-22 02:13:59 PM

1 votes:

Nynaeve224: SultanofSchwing: URAPNIS: Genevieve Marie: Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

Same here.

So your problem is that you don't like the thought that someone found you attractive?

Sounds to me like a man staring at your ass is the least of your issues...

No, your problem is that you're an entitled ass-hat who thinks that all women everywhere live only to serve people with penises.

Why the fark do men think women want to hear it if you think we're hot? We're not going to sleep with you. And it doesn't make us happy to know that you want to fark us. It makes us sick.

It's really not to much to ask to have men keep their horny thoughts to themselves. FFS.

I'm sorry that you're under the assumption I sit on my deck whistling at everything that walks by. I'm also sorry that you're an overzealous hosebeast.

Jim_Callahan		2012-06-22 02:13:24 PM

1 votes:

So... boosting womens' self esteem by putting their worth in terms of appearance alone and denigrating the entire construction profession. Yeah, that's clearly a great sign that's doing wonders for civility and sexual equality.

Digital Communist: There is a double standard and the only option is to apologize for whatever the perceived and imagined insult of the day is, and carry on.

Is there? I've gotten catcalls from cougars who'd seen a bit too much Sex + the City or something, and I'm not even particularly attractive (or maybe I am and just ain't wired to notice it). There's your women acting boorish and me stereotyping an entire demographic, seems fairly on par with me.

Basically the only way to not deal with mild harassment in an urban environment is to never be over the age of 12 or under the age of 35. If you're 12-17 cop and shop owners will harass you on the assumption you're stealing or planning to steal something at all time, at 18-25 you're considered as an object of sexual desire above your other qualities by default (for example, you'll be judged a lot harder for being fat) and from 25-35 old people will harass you at random from a combination of feeling their generation was better and that they're entitled to your material aid at random because you "owe them" (if you say "for what? a polluted biosphere, a crashed economy, and overtly religious politicians trying to destroy the country's essential liberties?" that's apparently being rude).

Summary: move to the suburbs or a high-income rural area or suck it up and deal. The rest of the 95% of humanity that lives in the city has to deal with the 10% of people that are annoying, obtrusive or outright assholes on a daily basis as well, instead of putting up posters and writing op-eds about it how about you do what the rest of us do and complain to your elderly parents? After all, things were better when they were your age, and you owe them for bringing you into the world for some reason apparently.

Digital Communist		2012-06-22 02:12:47 PM

1 votes:

ciberido: Digital Communist: There is a double standard and the only option is to apologize for whatever the perceived and imagined insult of the day is, and carry on.

Ok, I'll bite. What "double standard" do you think is going on here?

Point in case, the mural FTA was removed because it was offensive to women, never mind the fact that it makes men all seem like jeering neanderthals.

If a man complained that a woman said something to the effect of "You look nice today" he would be summarily dismissed. If a woman complains, we get a fark thread.

SultanofSchwing		2012-06-22 02:12:08 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: SultanofSchwing: The My Little Pony Killer: No, the problem is I don't know what else that man is willing to do if he can't even filter what's coming out of his face.

So, every male who catcalls, whistles, or stares at you for any indeterminate amount of time has a very high potential to be a rapist. Got it.

Yes, he's showing me that he's got very poor impulse control. It wouldn't happen if he'd use his brain for long enough to realize that the person in the dress is a HUMAN FARKING BEING.

I'm pretty sure they do realize that. Since the same outfit on an Orangutan would be unlikely to produce the same reaction.

probesport		2012-06-22 02:12:01 PM

1 votes:

SpiderZia		2012-06-22 02:10:28 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that it's not a compliment in the eyes of the women that you're doing it to, no matter how much you really really want it to be, so knock it off. Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day. Let them.

This. It's obnoxious. To be fair, I never get whistled at. My friends do. I assume that means I don't get an opinion, yes?

namegoeshere		2012-06-22 02:09:50 PM

1 votes:

Grobbley: Women are guilty of this same shiat. Typical double standard.

I admit I love a nice male ass in a faded pair of levis. Yeah, you bet I look. Subtly. I would never openly ogle. Because it's rude and classless. And I wouldn't ever whistle or cat call a stranger. Because, ick.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:08:52 PM

1 votes:

The Bunyip: Troublesome Strumpet: I take it subby isn't a woman who's been harassed on the street.

No, can't say say I am or that I have. But the idea that this billboard harassing someone, the initiator invoking "won't somebody think of the children?" and the online petition...welcome to Fark.

Welcome to the real world, where you do not own a woman's reaction nor do you hold the permission for how she can react when you decide to show poor impulse control by yelling or whistling at her on the street.

Digital Communist		2012-06-22 02:08:25 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. And it makes me then plan out ways that I can avoid being in that particular area ever again. I could give a rat's ass about your intentions when the actual action that you take makes me feel like I need to go home, shower, and throw on a burqa.

Yup. I've done that so many times- altered my routes walking around to avoid areas where I know guys that like to catcall hangout. It makes me feel like prey, and it's scary and awful in ways that a lot of men don't bother to even try and understand.

Grobbley: I think a woman who is offended by a man whistling at her in a way that indicates he's attracted to her is probably more of a douchebag than the guy whistling.

Yes, because having our own thoughts and routines interrupted so that someone we don't know whose attention we didn't seek can let us know that he finds us sufficiently farkable is something we should enjoy.

Do you think you are the only ones who ever feel uncomfortable or insecure in public? Do you think it would be fun if everyone made a big production about how those particular situations made them feel uncomfortable and the world should descend on them to fix it?

Hermione_Granger		2012-06-22 02:08:16 PM

1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz 2012-06-22 01:58:54 PM

Genevieve Marie: The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

[xaxor.com image 299x370]
Then stop wearing these, dumbass.

No matter what a woman wears (or doesn't wear) - does not give you the right to comment on attire, heckle her, compliment her or whistle at her.

Just mind your own damned business and keep your eyes, hands and comments to yourself.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:07:13 PM

1 votes:

SultanofSchwing: The My Little Pony Killer: No, the problem is I don't know what else that man is willing to do if he can't even filter what's coming out of his face.

So, every male who catcalls, whistles, or stares at you for any indeterminate amount of time has a very high potential to be a rapist. Got it.

Yes, he's showing me that he's got very poor impulse control. It wouldn't happen if he'd use his brain for long enough to realize that the person in the dress is a HUMAN FARKING BEING.

ciberido		2012-06-22 02:06:53 PM

1 votes:

Digital Communist: There is a double standard and the only option is to apologize for whatever the perceived and imagined insult of the day is, and carry on.

Ok, I'll bite. What "double standard" do you think is going on here?

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:06:12 PM

1 votes:

namegoeshere: Why whistle and cat call at all, though? Aren't you capable of having a look at a nice ass passing by without announcing it? Is subtlety that difficult a concept?

SO MUCH THIS. When you catcall and whistle at women, you're letting them know that you have POOR IMPULSE CONTROL, which is something a lot of people DON'T find attractive for obvious reasons.

If you ABSOLUTELY MUST say anything at all, you could try introducing yourself to her and putting her on a human level, don't turn her into some object that you feel some right to just because of how she's dressed or where she's walking.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:03:32 PM

1 votes:

Digital Communist: Big Man On Campus: What nonsense, how can a billboard possibly improve the self esteem in women? Are women really that simple? If so, I've got wallpaper I want to sell to newly married men.

There is nothing that can make some people happy. They would complain if the sign wasn't there if they had nothing better to whine about.

There is a double standard and the only option is to apologize for whatever the perceived and imagined insult of the day is, and carry on.

No, the only option is to keep your damn opinions to yourself when you see an attractive woman on the street.

FrancoFile		2012-06-22 02:03:14 PM

1 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: I take it subby isn't a woman who's been harassed on the street.

Can't decide if welcome_to_fark.jpg or successful_troll_is_successful.gif

Dr. Goldshnoz		2012-06-22 02:03:12 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Dr. Goldshnoz: Genevieve Marie: The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

[xaxor.com image 299x370]
Then stop wearing these, dumbass.

Doesn't matter what somebody is wearing, dumbass.

Yes, it does. girls dress like hos because they like being looked at. if you didn't like being looked at, you wouldn't show so much and you would dress more appropriately.
amishamerica.com

SoundOfOneHandWanking		2012-06-22 02:03:00 PM

1 votes:

Is there a petition to keep the sign?

What I find offensive is that somebody took the time to start a survey to ban something they don't have to look at.

drjekel_mrhyde		2012-06-22 02:01:01 PM

1 votes:

This is the main reason I use GHB on them hoes

Digital Communist		2012-06-22 02:00:50 PM

1 votes:

Big Man On Campus: What nonsense, how can a billboard possibly improve the self esteem in women? Are women really that simple? If so, I've got wallpaper I want to sell to newly married men.

There is nothing that can make some people happy. They would complain if the sign wasn't there if they had nothing better to whine about.

There is a double standard and the only option is to apologize for whatever the perceived and imagined insult of the day is, and carry on.

Toddicusrex		2012-06-22 02:00:25 PM

1 votes:

As if there's hot women in Jersey...

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 02:00:00 PM

1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: Genevieve Marie: The My Little Pony Killer: Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

[xaxor.com image 299x370]
Then stop wearing these, dumbass.

Doesn't matter what somebody is wearing, dumbass.

Whiplash!!!		2012-06-22 01:59:42 PM

1 votes:

Grobbley		2012-06-22 01:59:22 PM

1 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: Yeah, not everyone likes it, and not everyone understands that there's a line between "You look nice today" and "Woo baby I wanna tap that! Hey, where you going? What, too good to talk to me? biatch!"

Here's a question, do you think it's offensive if it stops at "Woo baby I wanna tap that!"? Because the sign in question doesn't give the impression that the construction workers are being douchebags, it is simply referring to the act of whistling. I think a woman who is offended by a man whistling at her in a way that indicates he's attracted to her is probably more of a douchebag than the guy whistling.

But I will certainly agree that if it turns into "Hey, where you going? What, too good to talk to me? biatch!" it's well beyond inappropriate. But those words even without the whistling would be inappropriate.

LeroyBourne		2012-06-22 01:59:22 PM

1 votes:

I knew this girl that did her thesis on this topic living in NY city. Whenever (usually) a construction worker would whistle at her she would approach him/them and try to interview them as to why they felt the need to cat call or whistle. 9/10 the men would run away, and typically when the rare guy wouldn't run away their response was that they didn't know it was wrong.

Genevieve Marie		2012-06-22 01:59:10 PM

1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

LOL! Because any woman that doesn't appreciate unwanted attention is totes frigid and just can't take a compliment.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 01:57:51 PM

1 votes:

Dr. Goldshnoz: Is it really harassment if you whistle at a beautiful woman? not saying i do it, not saying its mature or intellectual, but something tells me the kind of frigid person that gets their panties in a twist over this isn't getting whistled at to begin with, so whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that it's not a compliment in the eyes of the women that you're doing it to, no matter how much you really really want it to be, so knock it off. Women are not eye candy, they're not dressed up to get attention from you, they simply want to go about their day. Let them.

URAPNIS		2012-06-22 01:57:31 PM

1 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Yea, I hate it. Cannot stand it when I'm trying to go about my day and some guy needs to make sure that I know he's staring at my ass. It doesn't make me feel good, it makes me feel uncomfortable with my surroundings.

Same here.

SpiffyandRedhot		2012-06-22 01:56:41 PM

1 votes:

Lighten up, toots.

The My Little Pony Killer		2012-06-22 01:47:05 PM

1 votes:

Troublesome Strumpet: AbbeySomeone: The My Little Pony Killer: That is not about self-esteem. That is about blaming the women for the actions disgusting men choose to take. Leave off all the bullshiat about whistling at women, and remove that idiotic perky cartoon character, keep the part about promising to clean up your farking mess, and quit acting like misogyny is something that you can't control.

Sorry, but when you guys decide to frame the argument in this way, it doesn't make the women look bad for choosing to wear clothing and walk down the street. It makes men look like savage beasts who can't be expected to control themselves.

Troublesome Strumpet: This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

Except it's not suggesting that women should put up with it; it's suggesting that women should take such actions as a compliment! You were so sexy, I just HAD to whistle at you! Blaming the victim while making the perpetrator look like a drooling bag of hormones.

I found the sign to be amusing.
Also, you sound young. Any woman that is middle aged will recall the days when she was 'harrassed' in this fashion.

Yeah, not everyone likes it, and not everyone understands that there's a line between "You look nice today" and "Woo baby I wanna tap that! Hey, where you going? What, too good to talk to me? biatch!"

Seriously. Just because AbbeySomeone found it okay doesn't mean that the rest of the women who put up with that crap have to.

/boy, am I glad AbbeySomeone doesn't speak for all women

sigdiamond2000		2012-06-22 01:40:33 PM

1 votes:

Within 24 hours, more than a thousand people had signed the online petition. There were nearly 2,100 by yesterday afternoon, and Kearl found herself fielding media inquiries.

"It seemed to have struck a nerve," she said.

After she contacted the mall, the management took the sign down Monday evening and replaced it with a plain white board.

That's racist.

Someone should start a petition to have that thing removed.

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-22 01:24:02 PM

1 votes:

AbbeySomeone: The My Little Pony Killer: That is not about self-esteem. That is about blaming the women for the actions disgusting men choose to take. Leave off all the bullshiat about whistling at women, and remove that idiotic perky cartoon character, keep the part about promising to clean up your farking mess, and quit acting like misogyny is something that you can't control.

Sorry, but when you guys decide to frame the argument in this way, it doesn't make the women look bad for choosing to wear clothing and walk down the street. It makes men look like savage beasts who can't be expected to control themselves.

Troublesome Strumpet: This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

Except it's not suggesting that women should put up with it; it's suggesting that women should take such actions as a compliment! You were so sexy, I just HAD to whistle at you! Blaming the victim while making the perpetrator look like a drooling bag of hormones.

I found the sign to be amusing.
Also, you sound young. Any woman that is middle aged will recall the days when she was 'harrassed' in this fashion.

Yeah, not everyone likes it, and not everyone understands that there's a line between "You look nice today" and "Woo baby I wanna tap that! Hey, where you going? What, too good to talk to me? biatch!"

Troublesome Strumpet		2012-06-22 12:37:23 PM

1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: That is not about self-esteem. That is about blaming the women for the actions disgusting men choose to take. Leave off all the bullshiat about whistling at women, and remove that idiotic perky cartoon character, keep the part about promising to clean up your farking mess, and quit acting like misogyny is something that you can't control.

Sorry, but when you guys decide to frame the argument in this way, it doesn't make the women look bad for choosing to wear clothing and walk down the street. It makes men look like savage beasts who can't be expected to control themselves.

Troublesome Strumpet: This on top of making it sound like women should just put up with harassment, that it's no big deal.

Except it's not suggesting that women should put up with it; it's suggesting that women should take such actions as a compliment! You were so sexy, I just HAD to whistle at you! Blaming the victim while making the perpetrator look like a drooling bag of hormones.

Splitting hairs perhaps, but we are in agreement. Definitely burns me up when I've been catcalled and then they call me a snob or stuck-up biatch if I ignore them, like I owe them the time of day.