The Wizard of Frobozz: Columbus is a decent town. Mostly centrist. Fairly smart. Plenty of things to do. Passable food. Decent people.

It's like an oasis surrounded by the wasteland we call Ohio.

It is rather nice, though ComFest is a pretty hysterical gathering of hippies and patchouli oil. (It's not a cliche if it's incredibly true.)

IANAL, but would eminent domain trump adverse possession?

No Such Agency: Hand Banana:
AgentPothead: Never understood the white man's fascination with "owning" land.

Thanks to property taxes we don't own land anyway, we rent it.

The difference is the city can put a lien on your property faster than a landlord could legally evict you. That said, property taxes are why I have a nice paved street in front of my house and cops who drive along it from time to time and a pipe to take away my bodily wastes and dish water. Hard to argue with that.


Let's see...property taxes pay for NONE of those things:

* Sewer and water fees pay for your water and sewage (and fees like tap fees, etc).
* Cops = Sales tax + ticket revenue
* Paved road = part of what you paid for the house + gas taxes.
* Property tax = slush fund + schools.

So your property tax could go away and all you'd lose is those fine fine government schools that are producing such well-educated youth while keeping their overhead so modest.

unlikely: They're all like "Look, Cleveland has been the #1 festering shiathole in this state long enough. Without that tall grass breeding noxious weeds and those small but plentiful mosquitoes that are unique to Ohio, we're always going to be #2. Well NO MORE. You people are THROUGH holding us back from the #1 slot where we belong."

noxious weeds? Oh, and mosquitos are spawned in stagnant water. WTF is your deal?

Endive Wombat: Nidiot: So subby thinks it is okay for people to mow land they don't own which needs to be left natural in order to filter run-off into the water that will later be used as drinking water for many people.

I sure hope subby doesn't own land next to any reservoirs.


I am not trying to provoke you here, but please, answer this question: How does the water get better filtered with the wild grasses being 4' tall vs. a mowed 4" tall?

I can understand the city getting upset about unauthorized tree removal, and perhaps the fire pit (which as an aside, I would suspect the fire pit is 1/2 foot over the line or some other nonsense).

But seriously, how does the length of the grass affect the natural filtration process?

It isn't about the grass. They need weeds, trees, shrubs etc... If you leave grass, which is terrible for the environment, alone long enough it is replaced by much more sustainable plants that have vastly deeper root structures than what grass does. Ideally the city wants a ring of plants around the reservoir with roots that are going at least a foot to two feet deep.


And whoever brought up mosquitoes earlier, they don't breed in tall grass, they require shallow, standing water for their larva, any thing deep or moving will kill them. Or dragonflies love to eat mosquito larva. And if you research dragonflies even a little bit, they love to lay their eggs on plants that are right on the border of water bodies.

Speaker2Animals: Taller grass is thicker and absorbs more water.

How does absorbing water "filter" it?

Endive Wombat: Nidiot: So subby thinks it is okay for people to mow land they don't own which needs to be left natural in order to filter run-off into the water that will later be used as drinking water for many people.

I sure hope subby doesn't own land next to any reservoirs.


I am not trying to provoke you here, but please, answer this question: How does the water get better filtered with the wild grasses being 4' tall vs. a mowed 4" tall?

I can understand the city getting upset about unauthorized tree removal, and perhaps the fire pit (which as an aside, I would suspect the fire pit is 1/2 foot over the line or some other nonsense).

But seriously, how does the length of the grass affect the natural filtration process?

To be honest, I don't know all the details of why, but I bet that the city is not making it up for shiats and giggles, and that it is in fact based on scientific data. It is not only the difference between height of grasses but the number of different species of grasses and herbaceous plants, some of which would not survive regular mowing and therefore not even get to exist if mowing is allowed, that form part of an ecosystem. Different plants draw elements out of the soil in slightly different quantities, have deeper or shallower roots to reach different soil strata. Legumes are known as nitrogen fixers, taking it from the air and storing it in their roots, so there are possibly other properties other plants have that are beneficial that I don't know about. Also different plants would aid and support different insect life that in turn their turn support aquatic life. Lawns tend to be fairly sterile monocultures in comparison to wild grasslands.

No doubt there are experts that could tell you details that would leave you immune to insomnia for life, but I am not one of them. But I am smart enough to know that if someone better qualified than me says it is best to not do something, then it is best to pay attention.

I'm okay with this.

Endive Wombat: I guess my next question here is if this has become such a problem, why doesn't the city just put up a damn chain link fence? Looks ugly? Who cares, you folks couldn't leave the cities property alone, so now you get to look at an ugly fence.

I'd guess that there are probably dozens, if not hundreds of homes that abut the various reservoires and they only have a few bad apples, so to speak. Suppose the distance to line all the reservoires with a fence is presumably miles long, that's a hell of a lot of fence to put up and very expensive (and susceptible to vandalism/repairs/maintenance, etc.). I suppose they could put up a fence just along the trouble makers property. I guess that would fix the problem, but would look really silly.

I live in Boston. I fly in to Columbus to visit inlaws every once in a while.

Which means when I get to their place and drink some water from the tap, I see for myself exactly why the city is right and these neighbors are morons.

Ohioans, your tap water is farking disgusting. Don't mess with the vegetation that protects your reservoirs.

PFFFFFT! I piss in your reservior!

some light reading for those that don't understand how buffer zones of native vegetation work


http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/PM1507.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-wb-nps-bfs_250604_7.pdf

http://www.watershed-assistance.net/resources/files/SEWF_Wetlandfacts h eet_RiparianBuffer.pdf

I did read the article, numbnuts. The people don't want an eyesore in front of their windows s they did something about it, it's just a little bit of grass, relax.

theknuckler_33: Endive Wombat: I guess my next question here is if this has become such a problem, why doesn't the city just put up a damn chain link fence? Looks ugly? Who cares, you folks couldn't leave the cities property alone, so now you get to look at an ugly fence.

I'd guess that there are probably dozens, if not hundreds of homes that abut the various reservoires and they only have a few bad apples, so to speak. Suppose the distance to line all the reservoires with a fence is presumably miles long, that's a hell of a lot of fence to put up and very expensive (and susceptible to vandalism/repairs/maintenance, etc.). I suppose they could put up a fence just along the trouble makers property. I guess that would fix the problem, but would look really silly.

who cares about how it looks when you're discussing maintaining the quality of drinking water? I'm not sure there's another source of survival more important than water.

...a little ice nine will solve that pesky drinking water problem lickety-split.

Nidiot: Endive Wombat: Nidiot: So subby thinks it is okay for people to mow land they don't own which needs to be left natural in order to filter run-off into the water that will later be used as drinking water for many people.

I sure hope subby doesn't own land next to any reservoirs.


I am not trying to provoke you here, but please, answer this question: How does the water get better filtered with the wild grasses being 4' tall vs. a mowed 4" tall?

I can understand the city getting upset about unauthorized tree removal, and perhaps the fire pit (which as an aside, I would suspect the fire pit is 1/2 foot over the line or some other nonsense).

But seriously, how does the length of the grass affect the natural filtration process?

To be honest, I don't know all the details of why, but I bet that the city is not making it up for shiats and giggles, and that it is in fact based on scientific data. It is not only the difference between height of grasses but the number of different species of grasses and herbaceous plants, some of which would not survive regular mowing and therefore not even get to exist if mowing is allowed, that form part of an ecosystem. Different plants draw elements out of the soil in slightly different quantities, have deeper or shallower roots to reach different soil strata. Legumes are known as nitrogen fixers, taking it from the air and storing it in their roots, so there are possibly other properties other plants have that are beneficial that I don't know about. Also different plants would aid and support different insect life that in turn their turn support aquatic life. Lawns tend to be fairly sterile monocultures in comparison to wild grasslands.

No doubt there are experts that could tell you details that would leave you immune to insomnia for life, but I am not one of them. But I am smart enough to know that if someone better qualified than me says it is best to not do something, then it is best to pay attention.

I think it might also have something to do with the fact that more well rooted vegetaation is better at preventing soil/silt runnoff into the water supply. I think too much silt can choke a water supply of oxygen. I'm not so sure that the directive is for keeping the water safe for drinking per se, but to keep it as a healthy environmental area. It's not like reservoire water comes directly into your house, it still has to be filtered/treated, etc. But that environment needs to be kept healthy, there are plenty of fish, etc. living in that reservoire and accumulating soil/silt wouldn't be a good thing either and I think a healthy barrier of wild growing vegetation helps to keep some of that out by keeping the soil around the reservoire together.

AverageAmericanGuy: What's next? A summons for fertilizing your lawn?

Generally the government tends to frown upon the the poising of public drinking supplies.

Girion47: theknuckler_33: Endive Wombat: I guess my next question here is if this has become such a problem, why doesn't the city just put up a damn chain link fence? Looks ugly? Who cares, you folks couldn't leave the cities property alone, so now you get to look at an ugly fence.

I'd guess that there are probably dozens, if not hundreds of homes that abut the various reservoires and they only have a few bad apples, so to speak. Suppose the distance to line all the reservoires with a fence is presumably miles long, that's a hell of a lot of fence to put up and very expensive (and susceptible to vandalism/repairs/maintenance, etc.). I suppose they could put up a fence just along the trouble makers property. I guess that would fix the problem, but would look really silly.

who cares about how it looks when you're discussing maintaining the quality of drinking water? I'm not sure there's another source of survival more important than water.

I was just trying to imagine a rationale for taking them to court instead of putting up a fence.

I think it might also have something to do with the fact that more well rooted vegetaation is better at preventing soil/silt runnoff into the water supply. I think too much silt can choke a water supply of oxygen. I'm not so sure that the directive is for keeping the water safe for drinking per se, but to keep it as a healthy environmental area. It's not like reservoire water comes directly into your house, it still has to be filtered/treated, etc. But that environment needs to be kept healthy, there are plenty of fish, etc. living in that reservoire and accumulating soil/silt wouldn't be a good thing either and I think a healthy barrier of wild growing vegetation helps to keep some of that out by keeping the soil around the reservoire together.

The answer is MONEY. If your water goes through a filter of natural vegetation before reaching the pump house, the filtration and purification in the pump house is a farkload cheaper.

That's why Boston and New York control huge swaths of land around their main reservoirs, and not only enjoy good water quality, but enjoy it for cheap.

Hand Banana: AgentPothead: Never understood the white man's fascination with "owning" land.

Thanks to property taxes we don't own land anyway, we rent it.


That is asinine. You are continuously provided with services and you continuously pay for them. That the bill is based on your property value doesn't mean the government owns your property.

Don't live next to a reservoir easement but back when I lived in Tampa, we did have a 6 ft easement in our front yard that the city owned. Both sides of the street to 6 feet back is the city's (likely for things like utilities placement, sidewalks and the like). Anyway, street was well over 80 years old and there was no sidewalk and little likelihood of new utilities so, on the easement in my front yard there was grass and two huge oaks. The oaks had been there since my dad was a kid (was the house my grands built when they got married) so they were quite old. Anyway, we'd mowed that grass, tended to the easement and I even uncovered a quasi-sidewalk of sorts that was the original brick street underneath the asphalt of the street. We took care of the easement and the city was content to not have to come mow their grass for around 8 decades.

Anyway, one day one of the oaks drops this enormous branch in the street blocking any travel on it. Thing easily weighed over a hundred pounds. So, I discover this as I arrive home from work one day. Being the good neighbor I am, I hop out, drag the thing up onto the front lawn of my house so cars can get by and then go in and call the city to tell them they need to dispatch parks and rec to come get their branch. Keep in mind now: their tree, their branch, their street.

The lady answers the phone at Tampa Parks and Rec. I tell her the story and that I now have their huge ass branch pulled up onto my property so that traffic can pass. So proceeds to tell me that if their branch is in my yard that it's now my problem. I'm all like "what...but I'm trying to help out here...I don't have a place to dispose of this" and she's all like "your property, your problem". I asked her if she could hold the line for a moment and when I come back I restart the conversation saying "hi, my name's Craig and one of your trees on your easement has big dropped a branch into your street and it's blocking traffic...it looks like somebody MAY have tried to help and drag it out of the way but, would you believe it but there it is...right back out in the middle of the street...you should send someone".

Within about 20 minutes, there's a truck out there with guys sawing up the branch and tossing the wood into the truck. I talk to the crew boss and tell him the story...he apologizes and says the city bureaucracy is chock full of assholes like her.

Cities are weird about their property. You may think you're doing them a favor but don't expect they'll ever acknowledge it and may try and take you to task for it. In this case, yeah, the grass probably gets ridiculously long and harbors pests, insects and the like....but hey, chances are, the reservoir was there when those folks bought their houses and they were advised of the rules.

The Wizard of Frobozz: Columbus is a decent town. Mostly centrist. Fairly smart. Plenty of things to do. Passable food. Decent people.

It's like an oasis surrounded by the wasteland we call Ohio.

Clearly you've never visited Yellow Springs, the awesome hippie town time forgot.

david_gaithersburg: AverageAmericanGuy: What's next? A summons for fertilizing your lawn?

.
.
In many waterfront areas the use of fertilizer is illegal. If you are using fertilizer you may as well have your toilet dump directly into the river, bay, or whatever.

As someone who lives in Maryland and would prefer the wonderful Chesapeake bay to not have huge dead zones where no life can survive, I heartily approve this message from my perfectly healthy non-monoculture crabgrass- and dandelion-speckled lawn.

Jack Graf, who's lived on the O'Shaughnessy Reservoir at 5701 Dublin Rd. for nearly 30 years, said he plans to fight. The 65-year-old also is charged with criminal trespassing, and he expects to go forward with a jury trial next month.

I wish I lived closer. I'd have thousands of "Jury Nullification" brochures printed and start handing them out, to everyone in the city.

JosephFinn: It is rather nice, though ComFest is a pretty hysterical gathering of hippies and patchouli oil. (It's not a cliche if it's incredibly true.)

Every year I tell myself, "self, you should go check out ComFest this year."

Then I remember all I ever hear is about how it's a bunch of hippies and the types of people who say things like "I'm not religious but I'm very spiritual" and the occasional exposed breasts that you wish someone would cover up because nobody's trying to see that.

So I don't go.

ocschwar: I think it might also have something to do with the fact that more well rooted vegetaation is better at preventing soil/silt runnoff into the water supply. I think too much silt can choke a water supply of oxygen. I'm not so sure that the directive is for keeping the water safe for drinking per se, but to keep it as a healthy environmental area. It's not like reservoire water comes directly into your house, it still has to be filtered/treated, etc. But that environment needs to be kept healthy, there are plenty of fish, etc. living in that reservoire and accumulating soil/silt wouldn't be a good thing either and I think a healthy barrier of wild growing vegetation helps to keep some of that out by keeping the soil around the reservoire together.

The answer is MONEY. If your water goes through a filter of natural vegetation before reaching the pump house, the filtration and purification in the pump house is a farkload cheaper.

That's why Boston and New York control huge swaths of land around their main reservoirs, and not only enjoy good water quality, but enjoy it for cheap.

It almost sounds like you are saying that like it is a bad thing. In other words, the natural barrier keeps the water cleaner so less needs to be done to it (at less cost) before it get pumped out to peoples houses. Good reasoning all around, I'd say.

The Wizard of Frobozz: JosephFinn: It is rather nice, though ComFest is a pretty hysterical gathering of hippies and patchouli oil. (It's not a cliche if it's incredibly true.)

Every year I tell myself, "self, you should go check out ComFest this year."

Then I remember all I ever hear is about how it's a bunch of hippies and the types of people who say things like "I'm not religious but I'm very spiritual" and the occasional exposed breasts that you wish someone would cover up because nobody's trying to see that.

So I don't go.

....

Nope, that's pretty much just about right.

The Wizard of Frobozz: Columbus is a decent town. Mostly centrist. Fairly smart. Plenty of things to do. Passable food. Decent people.

It's like an oasis surrounded by the wasteland we call Ohio.

Except nobody there knows how to drive...

Rich white people problems will land you in jail. Interesting.

I always said that the cops & government would never stop harassing black people, they would just find more reasons to prosecute and legislate white people, particularly otherwise law-abiding white people.

Seems I was right.

I wish I lived closer. I'd have thousands of "Jury Nullification" brochures printed and start handing them out, to everyone in the city.


You'd watch your work undone by people like me adding brochures about water quality.

Seriously, what the fark is it with suburbanites ? Don't you have any idea what it takes to supply you with decent water?

Just wait until the city comes and installs big signs that say "Property of the City of Columbus. Trespassers will be procecuted."

I would rather have tall weeds on the edge of my property than those signs..

Dr. Whoof: Clearly you've never visited Yellow Springs, the awesome hippie town time forgot.

I have heard tales of this place. Perhaps it's its own oasis.

Also: Yes I just found an excuse to write "it's its" on purpose so I could illustrate to all you farkers that I know the proper use of those two words.

Because I'm not a grammar nazi but I am a grammar weenie.

The Wizard of Frobozz: JosephFinn: It is rather nice, though ComFest is a pretty hysterical gathering of hippies and patchouli oil. (It's not a cliche if it's incredibly true.)

Every year I tell myself, "self, you should go check out ComFest this year."

Then I remember all I ever hear is about how it's a bunch of hippies and the types of people who say things like "I'm not religious but I'm very spiritual" and the occasional exposed breasts that you wish someone would cover up because nobody's trying to see that.

So I don't go.

You forgot the yearly police raid/stabbing/etc. Seriously, every year there's some news story about violence at ComFest.

ocschwar: I live in Boston. I fly in to Columbus to visit inlaws every once in a while.

Which means when I get to their place and drink some water from the tap, I see for myself exactly why the city is right and these neighbors are morons.

Ohioans, your tap water is farking disgusting. Don't mess with the vegetation that protects your reservoirs.

When I lived in Cleveland, it all came straight from Erie. Kind of disconcerting when you could actually see the color change where the Cuyahoga hit the lake, but the "crib" was 3 miles out, so that ag and industrial sludge did have time to dilute. Still, blech.
http://allthingsclevelandohio.blogspot.com/2008/01/cleveland-crib.htm l

The Wizard of Frobozz: Dr. Whoof: Clearly you've never visited Yellow Springs, the awesome hippie town time forgot.

I have heard tales of this place. Perhaps it's its own oasis.

It is. Trust me, it's worth going. It's only about an hour from Columbus and you can see the whole town in an afternoon and be back in Columbus for a BJ game.

/Yes, our hockey team is the BJs...

Cold_Sassy: Except nobody there knows how to drive...

Well that's a given. The way I see it, around these parts nobody knows how to drive. And since I'm the biggest nobody ever, I'm literally the only one who knows how to drive.

Monkeylint: david_gaithersburg: AverageAmericanGuy: What's next? A summons for fertilizing your lawn?

.
.
In many waterfront areas the use of fertilizer is illegal. If you are using fertilizer you may as well have your toilet dump directly into the river, bay, or whatever.

As someone who lives in Maryland and would prefer the wonderful Chesapeake bay to not have huge dead zones where no life can survive, I heartily approve this message from my perfectly healthy non-monoculture crabgrass- and dandelion-speckled lawn.

Too bad the farmers don't care too much about that.

Link

/loves me some eastern shore corn though
//on the other hand, loves me some chesapeake rockfish too
///conundrum

Dr. Whoof: /Yes, our hockey team is the BJs...

I miss the Chill. I've forgotten what it's like to have a hockey team worth watching.

Nidiot: Are they all retarded?

This is Ohio. Were you asking a rhetorical question?

We should all know by now that lawns of green grass aren't so "green" for the environment. Keeping turf from turning brown wastes water; people use too much pesticide and herbicide, toxic chemicals that can contaminate the fish we eat and water we drink. And keeping lawns at a reasonable height burns fossil fuels, releasing greenhouse gases and other pollutants into the atmosphere. Now a new study in Geophysical Research Letters shows that turf causes yet another problem, this time from the fertilizer spread to keep grass growing.

rest of the article


QUIT MAINTAINING GRASS YOU SUBURBAN ASSHOLES

Endive Wombat: I guess my next question here is if this has become such a problem, why doesn't the city just put up a damn chain link fence? Looks ugly? Who cares, you folks couldn't leave the cities property alone, so now you get to look at an ugly fence.

The fence would only be an impediment to the water r-u-n-n-o-f-t Endive. Now you wouldn't happen to have any hairnets around would you?

softshoes: The fence would only be an impediment to the water r-u-n-n-o-f-t Endive.

I didn't know chain-link fences made effective water barriers. That would making living in a flood plain a lot cheaper.

The Wizard of Frobozz: Cold_Sassy: Except nobody there knows how to drive...

Well that's a given. The way I see it, around these parts nobody knows how to drive. And since I'm the biggest nobody ever, I'm literally the only one who knows how to drive.

Well, what a good-natured soul you are.

I'll have to give some credit for the problem to ODOT and the farked-up way Interstates are laid out through your city. That's crazy.

GreatBunzinni: Endive Wombat: But seriously, how does the length of the grass affect the natural filtration process?

Vegetative Filter Strips for Improved Surface Water Quality

Firstly, that specifies Vegetative Filter Strips as
"areas next to cropland
that are seeded to close-growing plants. They are
designed to remove sediment, organic material, nutrients,
and chemicals carried in runoff or waste water."
and talks about them removing "Nitrogen and phosphorus". You know, from fertilizer you use on "cropland".

A lawn is not "cropland".

Second, it specifies that:
"Filter strips must be properly
designed and constructed to be
effective."

I don't think 20 foot swath of random weeds qualifies as "properly designed and constructed". So, I don't think it really applies here.

Girion47: We should all know by now that lawns of green grass aren't so "green" for the environment. Keeping turf from turning brown wastes water; people use too much pesticide and herbicide, toxic chemicals that can contaminate the fish we eat and water we drink. And keeping lawns at a reasonable height burns fossil fuels, releasing greenhouse gases and other pollutants into the atmosphere. Now a new study in Geophysical Research Letters shows that turf causes yet another problem, this time from the fertilizer spread to keep grass growing.

rest of the article


QUIT MAINTAINING GRASS YOU SUBURBAN ASSHOLES

good luck with that crusade.

I don't think 20 foot swath of random weeds qualifies as "properly designed and constructed". So, I don't think it really applies here.


It's Ohio. You let a piece of turf grow out long enough and it fills with native shrubs. Utterly beautiful, IMO. And also well studied (Ohio State's hydrology department is competent, albeit not good at making the general public aware of these things.) And good for the water.

ocschwar:
I wish I lived closer. I'd have thousands of "Jury Nullification" brochures printed and start handing them out, to everyone in the city.


You'd watch your work undone by people like me adding brochures about water quality.

Seriously, what the fark is it with suburbanites ? Don't you have any idea what it takes to supply you with decent water?

Oh you mean that stuff in bottles we buy flats of? We drive to Costco for that. Like we'd drink the same water that goes in the toilet, that's what we let Manuel drink from the hose when he comes to do our yard.