fusillade762: xynix: Mormons are pagans/heretics - period - according to the Bible.

How could the bible address a religion that hadn't even been created yet?


sammyk: Stolen from the interwebs:

Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu'ran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There's still Jesus, but he's not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn't shown up yet.

Jews like the first movie, but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third one doesn't count, Moslems think the third one was the best, and Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that doesn't fit with ANY of the series canon.

So does that make Protestants fans of the 2nd film's director's cut?

Catholics are like Team Edward and Protestants are Team Jacob.

DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB

Mikey1969: Sabyen91: Mikey1969: Mormon? I don't care. Romney? No farking way.

How can almost 1/2 of the people polled not know about his religion, it's all anyone will talk about, including his campaign.

Really? I think he has done a tremendous job of not talking about it.

Nah, I think he religion-drops whenever he can. 'When I was on my mission...', 'When I was a bishop...', etc...

Now, as to your angle, he is talking about it, but not actually SAYING anything, if you get my drift... It's like hearing someone, but not listening. Like I said though, I'm not afraid of a Mormon being President, but I sure as shiat don't want THAT particular Mormon to be President.

Yeah, I get your drift. He is talking about it in very general terms to try to connect with the Christians but nothing that could be pinned down as truly Mormon.

ArcadianRefugee: Mormons are Christians as much as Christians are Jews. They might have roots in the other, but calling one the other is a bit of a spin.

More importantly, Mormons are Christians in the *exact same way* that Muslims are Christians. They both believe in Jesus of Nazareth, born of God (but not actually God or part of the wtfmate-godhead/trinity). Who ascended to heaven. And will judge in the end time. There have been prophets since then. Muslims and Mormons both share pretty much the same Christology.

xynix: fusillade762: xynix: Mormons are pagans/heretics - period - according to the Bible.

How could the bible address a religion that hadn't even been created yet?

Because there is only one God and Jesus Christ is his son and the only way to salvation is through him. Anything else is heresy. Mohamed is a false prophet and so is Joseph Smith.. So is David Koresh. The three named are all equals in Christian eyes.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father [GOD], but by me." (John 14:6).

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).

I won't bore you with further Bible quotes.. is what it is. Joseph Smith is not Christ Jesus therefor hes a pagan and heretic.

/theology degree
//dont ask
///votes liberal


Also isn't there something in the Bible about false prophets and about not adding to the "word of God" like Mormons did with their Book of Mormon?

How much you want to bet those 43% are FOX watchers? And how much you want to bet if someone made a pamplet and seeded it around the neighborhoods a few days before the election notifying them of his Mormonism that his support would plummet?

deadcrickets: How much you want to bet those 43% are FOX watchers? And how much you want to bet if someone made a pamplet and seeded it around the neighborhoods a few days before the election notifying them of his Mormonism that his support would plummet?


Mormonism may be evil to them, but anyone is better than the Muslim Devil from Kenya

CommieTaoist: Unfortunately I'm sure that there are more than 18% of the Americans who won't vote for a black president.

No doubt true, but I bet there's significant overlap with those two groups.

Serious Black: HeartBurnKid: I have to admit, I'm a lot less comfortable with voting for Mormons since the Prop. 8 fight here in California. Seeing how the church mobilized politically in that would have me looking suspiciously at anybody who claims to be affiliated with them.

The same thing can be said with the followers of virtually any denomination of Christianity today. Catholics are suing to stop the listing of birth control as preventative medicine. Baptists continually lobby to enshrine male-female marriage as the gold standard in constitutions. Hell, Paul Ryan bastardized the Catholic view of subsidiarity to mean that the federal government has no responsibility to help the poor eat.

I'd probably look askance on Baptists, as well. Catholics not so much, since there are probably more Catholics who don't take the church's every word as gospel than do.

Sabyen91: Yeah, I get your drift. He is talking about it in very general terms to try to connect with the Christians but nothing that could be pinned down as truly Mormon.

Bingo...

Lawnchair: ArcadianRefugee: Mormons are Christians as much as Christians are Jews. They might have roots in the other, but calling one the other is a bit of a spin.

More importantly, Mormons are Christians in the *exact same way* that Muslims are Christians. They both believe in Jesus of Nazareth, born of God (but not actually God or part of the wtfmate-godhead/trinity). Who ascended to heaven. And will judge in the end time. There have been prophets since then. Muslims and Mormons both share pretty much the same Christology.

A fundamentalist Christian would spit nails at that (even though you're right). They would be quick to point out that since Muslims and Mormons don't believe in a 100% literal interpretation of the Christian bible (and in the Mormons' case they've actually added to it - another fatal taboo), then they aren't truly Christian, and are in fact nothing more than a false religion.

And I know, I know...to those of us outside of that religious sphere, it seems like splitting hairs to the point of absurdity. But no matter how crazy it seems, you have to realize they take it very seriously. Evangelicals will be very wary of Romney if he gets in office; I'm almost curious to see how it would play out.

Guidette Frankentits: I have referred to Mormons as christian in conversations and had people be like "lemme stop you right there, son"

It isn't a denomination of Christianity though. For the most part, denominations have the same basic story and beliefs whether it be Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, etc. Their interpretations of it are different on a number of issues, like trans/consubstantiation, baptism, etc. The same texts, for the most part, have been used for more than 1500 years. Then, about 1800 years after the Christian church started, some guy in NY has a "revelation" that includes the idea that people are attempting to gain their own godhood through their actions on earth, that Jesus coming to North America, and generally diverging from the key tenets of Christianity. The attempt to attain godhood quite clearly contradicts Christianity.

As Judaism and Islam are not a part of Christianity, nor is Mormonism. It's a distinct Abrahamic religion.

kid_icarus: xynix: Devout Christians that want a Christian president will not vote for a Mormon no matter how good his hair is. It would be the same as voting for an openly gay man..

This. To fundamentalist Christians, Mormons aren't just another denomination of the Christian church. They're a cult; a false religion. You will have a certain amount of the GOP base who will not vote for a Mormon. That's certainly not to say that they'll vote for Obama instead, but there will be many who simply won't vote at all.

Kind of like the Catholics think about all those Protestants and the Greek Orthodox Church feels about the Catholics.

HeartBurnKid: Serious Black: HeartBurnKid: I have to admit, I'm a lot less comfortable with voting for Mormons since the Prop. 8 fight here in California. Seeing how the church mobilized politically in that would have me looking suspiciously at anybody who claims to be affiliated with them.

The same thing can be said with the followers of virtually any denomination of Christianity today. Catholics are suing to stop the listing of birth control as preventative medicine. Baptists continually lobby to enshrine male-female marriage as the gold standard in constitutions. Hell, Paul Ryan bastardized the Catholic view of subsidiarity to mean that the federal government has no responsibility to help the poor eat.

I'd probably look askance on Baptists, as well. Catholics not so much, since there are probably more Catholics who don't take the church's every word as gospel than do.

This is true. At least 80% of Catholics say using birth control is not a sin, something close to 60% approve of same-sex couples legally marrying, and many fight more for social justice than backwards views of sexuality. Some of them are even okay with divorce too, though I haven't seen any polls asking that lately.

Countdown to Fox/Fark righties blaming this 18% on "The Liberal"...5...4...3...

odinsposse: fusillade762: xynix: Mormons are pagans/heretics - period - according to the Bible.

How could the bible address a religion that hadn't even been created yet?


sammyk: Stolen from the interwebs:

Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu'ran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There's still Jesus, but he's not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn't shown up yet.

Jews like the first movie, but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third one doesn't count, Moslems think the third one was the best, and Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that doesn't fit with ANY of the series canon.

So does that make Protestants fans of the 2nd film's director's cut?

Catholics are like Team Edward and Protestants are Team Jacob.

Gilgamesh: The once popular, now rarely seen 1930s remake repeatedly mistaken for the Original because no one views silent films anymore
Torah: The U.S. remake of the Asian original
Koran: The U.S. remake of the European original
New Testament (Four Gospels): The Sequel
New Testament (Everything Written by Paul): The Retcon of the Retcon to keep the Rights in-house
Dead Sea Scrolls: Retcon: Director's Cut
The Book of Mormon: The Asylum Pictures version

vpb: Is it sekrit muslin?

According to some, yes:

Link

bugontherug: vpb: Is it sekrit muslin?

According to some, yes:

Link

Should add:

Link

Nadie_AZ: Top Mormon leaders had hired two big-name advertising agencies in 2009, Ogilvy & Mather and Hall & Partners, to find out what Americans think of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Using focus groups and surveys, they found that Americans who had any opinion at all used adjectives that were downright negative: "secretive," "cultish," "sexist," "controlling," "pushy," "anti-gay."

Link

This is the year of the mormon. They are about to be center stage. Well, one of their own will be. And that's a big deal.

I gotta tell you something- this is as big a lie as anything Romney has said on the campaign trail:

Church leaders like Mr. Allen say that the timing and tenor of the campaign have nothing to do with the political campaigns of two Mormons running for president.

Either way you slice it, more people will know a little about the religion by the beginning of November. Sorry mormons, you've good people, but Romney isn't a good candidate.

I'd rather live around Jehovah's Witnesses. People think just because Mormons will do general labor for free (if you're their type of person), that that makes Mormons pushovers and doormats. Hell to the no. Mormons bring clique-y ness to another level.

Rodrigo Hernandez: It isn't a denomination of Christianity though. For the most part, denominations have the same basic story and beliefs whether it be Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, etc. Their interpretations of it are different on a number of issues, like trans/consubstantiation, baptism, etc. The same texts, for the most part, have been used for more than 1500 years. Then, about 1800 years after the Christian church started, some guy in NY has a "revelation" that includes the idea that people are attempting to gain their own godhood through their actions on earth, that Jesus coming to North America, and generally diverging from the key tenets of Christianity. The attempt to attain godhood quite clearly contradicts Christianity.

As Judaism and Islam are not a part of Christianity, nor is Mormonism. It's a distinct Abrahamic religion.

1) Mormonism rejects the necessity of Jesus Christ for personal salvation.

2) Says there is more than one god.

3) Says Jesus Christ was conceived through carnal intercourse between God the Father and Mary.

It just isn't Christianity.

Guidette Frankentits: I have referred to Mormons as christian in conversations and had people be like "lemme stop you right there, son"

Well, Mormons themselves separate themselves from other Christians by teaching that every other church had fallen into error before Joe Smith had his "revelation" (dum, dum, dum, dum). The key part of their theology that separates them from the rest of Christianity, apart from the nonsense about Jews in the ancient Americas and Jesus having a second ministry after the Resurrection), is that Mormons teach that Jesus was created by God the Father, along with the angels and all of the souls in Heaven. They also believe that God was once a man and that good Mormons can someday become gods themselves.

bugontherug: Rodrigo Hernandez: It isn't a denomination of Christianity though. For the most part, denominations have the same basic story and beliefs whether it be Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, etc. Their interpretations of it are different on a number of issues, like trans/consubstantiation, baptism, etc. The same texts, for the most part, have been used for more than 1500 years. Then, about 1800 years after the Christian church started, some guy in NY has a "revelation" that includes the idea that people are attempting to gain their own godhood through their actions on earth, that Jesus coming to North America, and generally diverging from the key tenets of Christianity. The attempt to attain godhood quite clearly contradicts Christianity.

As Judaism and Islam are not a part of Christianity, nor is Mormonism. It's a distinct Abrahamic religion.

1) Mormonism rejects the necessity of Jesus Christ for personal salvation.

2) Says there is more than one god.

3) Says Jesus Christ was conceived through carnal intercourse between God the Father and Mary.

It just isn't Christianity.

Should add: says Jesus is Satan's brother.

bugontherug: 1) Mormonism rejects the necessity of Jesus Christ for personal salvation.

2) Says there is more than one god.

3) Says Jesus Christ was conceived through carnal intercourse between God the Father and Mary.

It just isn't Christianity.

The first two of those are true of Christianity as well. A few Biblical versus indicate that salvation can be had through faith and deeds, not necessarily through accepting the Christ's sacrifice. Many Biblical versus in Old and New Testament either explicitly or implicitly refer to multiple gods. So really, the key difference between mainstream Christian beliefs (e.g. Catholic and Protestant) and Mormonism is whether or not their god gave Mary a good dicking or not.

Mormons got nothing on atheists. 18% of the population won't vote for a Mormon, but 53% wouldn't consider voting for an atheist. FIFTY THREE PERCENT.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/26611/some-americans-reluctant-vote-mormon - 72yearold-presidential-candidates.aspx

Isn't Harry "Sin City" Reid a Mormon too? Oh yah its different when liberals do it. Silly me.

xynix: The new testament was written by those closest to Christ.

Except for the bulk of it attributed to a guy who never met Christ in the flesh, only in spirit form (if you're buying it) briefly, and who was apparently unfamiliar with (doesn't make reference to anyway) a single one of his parables or the Sermon on the Mount. But, yeah, those closest to Christ.

I will not vote for a Mormon but I would vote for Mitt Romney to be named president posthumously.

Kome: bugontherug: 1) Mormonism rejects the necessity of Jesus Christ for personal salvation.

2) Says there is more than one god.

3) Says Jesus Christ was conceived through carnal intercourse between God the Father and Mary.

It just isn't Christianity.

The first two of those are true of Christianity as well. A few Biblical versus indicate that salvation can be had through faith and deeds, not necessarily through accepting the Christ's sacrifice. Many Biblical versus in Old and New Testament either explicitly or implicitly refer to multiple gods.

If you think you can sell that, roll with it. But what you're saying deviates significantly from historic and contemporary uses of the term "Christianity." The Nicene Creed, and other creeds which followed, speak of belief in "one God," and go on at some length about Jesus. While some texts do talk about works/fatih, etc., Jesus himself said "No man comes to the Father but by me."

The issue is whether Mormonism is Christianity. I'd take pretty good odds on a wager that if you walked into most undisputed Christian churches in America and polled their clerics, you'd find wide agreement for the propositions that monotheism and the necessity of Christ for personal salvation are, if anything is, the sine qua non of Christianity.

sammyk: Stolen from the interwebs:

Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Qu'ran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There's still Jesus, but he's not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn't shown up yet.

Jews like the first movie, but ignored the sequels, Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third one doesn't count, Moslems think the third one was the best, and Mormons liked the second one so much they started writing fanfiction that doesn't fit with ANY of the series canon.

Old Testament = The Terminator. Dark and violent, much of it centers around an all-powerful entity who can and will kill whatever he pleases.

New Testament = Terminator 2. Now the all-powerful entity is a nice guy, and works against an even more evil entity (even sacrificing himself to thwart the evil entity's schemes). Apocalyptic overtones. Not entirely internally consistent with the first one.

Quran = Terminator 3. The aforementioned all-powerful entity is only second banana in the grand scheme of things. He now serves a more important person. Chock full of death, despair and destruction. Even less internally consistent with its predecessors.

Book of Mormon = Terminator Salvation. Radically different setting. Everything you thought you knew has gone out the window. Better off skipping this one.

dum dum dum dum dum

bugontherug: If you think you can sell that, roll with it. But what you're saying deviates significantly from historic and contemporary uses of the term "Christianity." The Nicene Creed, and other creeds which followed, speak of belief in "one God," and go on at some length about Jesus. While some texts do talk about works/fatih, etc., Jesus himself said "No man comes to the Father but by me."

The issue is whether Mormonism is Christianity. I'd take pretty good odds on a wager that if you walked into most undisputed Christian churches in America and polled their clerics, you'd find wide agreement for the propositions that monotheism and the necessity of Christ for personal salvation are, if anything is, the sine qua non of Christianity.

I didn't say that Christian dogma worships more than one deity, only that it's sacred book which is held to be the infallible word of the Almighty acknowledges other deities exist. Contra your claim that said Mormonism isn't Christianity because it says there's more than one god. As to whether or not Christianity rejects the necessity of the Christ for personal salvation, I did not dispute that there are Biblical foundations for that, I only said that there are Biblical versus that contradict it and state that salvation can be achieved through other means.

Those are subtle distinctions. I'm not saying the religion as understood today (or even for the last few centuries) worships more than one god or rejects the idea that you need to accept the Son to receive salvation, only that the Bible does in fact reference other gods existing and suggests you can be saved even while not accepting the Christ. Those stand in opposition to your claims that Mormonism can't be a sect of Christianity because they reject the necessity of Jesus for salvation and acknowledge there is more than one god. My response to that is that, well, at its core, based on the holy text that is held to be infallible so does every other sect of Christianity.

bugontherug: As Judaism and Islam are not a part of Christianity, nor is Mormonism. It's a distinct Abrahamic religion.

1) Mormonism rejects the necessity of Jesus Christ for personal salvation.

2) Says there is more than one god.

3) Says Jesus Christ was conceived through carnal intercourse between God the Father and Mary.

It just isn't Christianity.

Should add: says Jesus is Satan's brother.

The other interesting question is how many practicing Mormons know most of the above. Let alone Joe Laity at your average Tennessee independent-baptist megachurch.

It's good for a chuckle, sometimes. God bless the LDS... they're the only religion that ever has a pair of absurdly cute 20-year-old gals knock on my door. But, get into it for about 30 seconds, and frequently *they* don't know the slightest bit of Mormon theology. Usually a little more about Mormon history. These are gals who are doing a mission year... and about all they know is that muscular blue-eyed Jesus loves us all very much. Cultural 'I guess I am' Mormons in greater SLC?

I wish the Shroud of Turin would be allowed to be debunked as thoroughly as Book of Abraham. Mormons learned from the best, when it came to faking the funk. It's still not Christianity.


Kome: bugontherug: 1) Mormonism rejects the necessity of Jesus Christ for personal salvation.

2) Says there is more than one god.

3) Says Jesus Christ was conceived through carnal intercourse between God the Father and Mary.

It just isn't Christianity.

The first two of those are true of Christianity as well. A few Biblical versus indicate that salvation can be had through faith and deeds, not necessarily through accepting the Christ's sacrifice. Many Biblical versus in Old and New Testament either explicitly or implicitly refer to multiple gods. So really, the key difference between mainstream Christian beliefs (e.g. Catholic and Protestant) and Mormonism is whether or not their god gave Mary a good dicking or not.

Not really.
- No mainstream Christian group believes in humans baptising the dead (Christian Limbo is different, and the concept of the Final Judgement, where everyone who ever lived is given a choice -- no matter how they lived -- on The Last Day to accept God or reject God, is also different).
- No mainstream Christian group believes in Spirit Marriage. You will not have the life you lived on Earth, there will be no pain, no tears, only the greater glory of God. You're not going to pine over your old life, your old husband, your old wife. Nobody's serving anybody, except God. You might be reunited, but it's reunited in God, a return to God. The Mormon stuff is closer to the Old Ways and the shiat that led to Purdah, than Christianity.
- Muslims may traditionally have 72 houris to each man, but again that's different from Mormon Spirit Marriage
- No mainstream Christian group believes in everybody receiving their own planet after death.

I read on one of the anti-Scientology sites that disaffected Mormons and disaffected Scientologists are more likely to cross over to each other's sides, because of familiarity. I don't know what that means. Since I don't have a citation, you can ignore that.

Mormons are not Christians. They're as close to Christianity as the Nation of Islam is close to Islam.

I've had a standing offer with Romney supporters within earshot to explain how the Mormon Law of Consecration squares with free market economics -- or merely explain how it has shaped Romney's views.

Zippy. Nada.

Just wait until the Protestant megachurches across the South get a good long look at Mormonism. It won't be overt and congregants who voted for McCain won't suddenly vote for Obama, but turnout will be depressed.