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(Entertainmentwise)   Steven Moffat, Doctor Who and Sherlock writer extraordinaire, admits he's too superstitious to actually write down plots   (entertainmentwise.com) divider line 62
    More: Interesting, Steven Moffat, Sherlock Holmes, Professor Moriarty, write-downs  
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1811 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 21 Jun 2012 at 12:42 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-22 09:24:56 AM  
Flint Ironstag:
And just for a big sad, Lou Gish who played Julia, died from cancer in 2006, very soon after her mother, who played Connor Macleod's PA in Highlander died of the same cause.

I did NOT know they were related...
And I've watched both, many, many times.
 
2012-06-22 09:33:34 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: RoyBatty: Haven't quite figured out yet if Rory is still plastic or not.

That never happened. Since the Doctor's TARDIS was responsible for the crack, and since the Doctor was made never-existed by the crack, the Doctor never happened, nor did the crack, nor did Rory or Amy ever go adventuring with the Doctor, so no one died or got plasticopied since, if the Doctor never existed, there would never have been need for him to have been lured to Stonehenge or indeed even anyone to lure him there. Or something.

Who cares that everyone still remembers all of that having happened.

Yeah, I don't much care for events since Tennant left. Hell, in "Turn Left" they showed how devastating things would have been to the Earth if the Doctor hadn't teamed up with Donna (because of the few mostly-Christmas invasions he stopped) yet apparently the world is just fine even though he would then never have stopped them or any of the earlier invasions either.


You're correct in your explanation, except that the Doctor never existing is not the end of the story arc. He didn't exist, and then he did. So his period of non-existance is part of his existance. His retroactive nullification was retroactively nullified, thus nullifying it's retroactivity. So much like Rory being plastic - it happened, but it didn't.

\Wibbley Wobbley....
 
2012-06-22 10:11:02 AM  

edip1976: ArcadianRefugee: RoyBatty: Haven't quite figured out yet if Rory is still plastic or not.

That never happened. Since the Doctor's TARDIS was responsible for the crack, and since the Doctor was made never-existed by the crack, the Doctor never happened, nor did the crack, nor did Rory or Amy ever go adventuring with the Doctor, so no one died or got plasticopied since, if the Doctor never existed, there would never have been need for him to have been lured to Stonehenge or indeed even anyone to lure him there. Or something.

Who cares that everyone still remembers all of that having happened.

Yeah, I don't much care for events since Tennant left. Hell, in "Turn Left" they showed how devastating things would have been to the Earth if the Doctor hadn't teamed up with Donna (because of the few mostly-Christmas invasions he stopped) yet apparently the world is just fine even though he would then never have stopped them or any of the earlier invasions either.

You're correct in your explanation, except that the Doctor never existing is not the end of the story arc. He didn't exist, and then he did. So his period of non-existance is part of his existance. His retroactive nullification was retroactively nullified, thus nullifying it's retroactivity. So much like Rory being plastic - it happened, but it didn't.

\Wibbley Wobbley....



There's another key difference, arguably more important, with "The Big Bang". The universe went into non-existence because of the crack. Remember, Amelia was sent to shrinks in that reality because she insisted there should be stars in the night sky. The TARDIS orbiting the sun was the only thing keeping the Earth and sun real. So all of those bad things that would have happened from alien invaders were it not for the Doctor did not happen because the aliens' planets didn't exist from sometime after 102 CE, just as the Doctor warned them before they locked him in the Pandorica.
 
2012-06-22 10:11:08 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: HopScotchNSoda: 2011 had some outstanding episodes & mini-episodes and brilliant character development, but I did not like the mini-series feel to it. Having series-long story arcs is great, but 2010 and, even more 2011 were each like a single linear story.

Moffat certainly knows how to work a punch-in-the-gut emotional scene in the middle of a sci-fi adventure show and make it work, like the second trip to the museum in "Vincent and the Doctor" and the call to the nursing home in "The Wedding of River Song". I'll give him that. Then there was the awesome mis-direction "Wait! What?!" moment in the cold open of "A Good Man Goes to War" in which Amy is telling Melody all about the man who's coming to save them, building him up, so it as to imply the Doctor, and saying "that man is your father" (after all of those scenes in the previous episodes of Rory worrying that Amy loved the Doctor more than him) before presenting Rory as the universe's supreme badass.

Even though I guessed who she was talking about halfway through it when I
first watched it, that doesn't diminish the punch of seeing Rory orchestrate
the destruction of the Cyberman fleet single-handedly.


The big emotional moment in that ep was River revealing who she was at the end.
 
2012-06-22 11:26:27 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: edip1976: ArcadianRefugee: RoyBatty: Haven't quite figured out yet if Rory is still plastic or not.

That never happened. Since the Doctor's TARDIS was responsible for the crack, and since the Doctor was made never-existed by the crack, the Doctor never happened, nor did the crack, nor did Rory or Amy ever go adventuring with the Doctor, so no one died or got plasticopied since, if the Doctor never existed, there would never have been need for him to have been lured to Stonehenge or indeed even anyone to lure him there. Or something.

Who cares that everyone still remembers all of that having happened.

Yeah, I don't much care for events since Tennant left. Hell, in "Turn Left" they showed how devastating things would have been to the Earth if the Doctor hadn't teamed up with Donna (because of the few mostly-Christmas invasions he stopped) yet apparently the world is just fine even though he would then never have stopped them or any of the earlier invasions either.

You're correct in your explanation, except that the Doctor never existing is not the end of the story arc. He didn't exist, and then he did. So his period of non-existance is part of his existance. His retroactive nullification was retroactively nullified, thus nullifying it's retroactivity. So much like Rory being plastic - it happened, but it didn't.

\Wibbley Wobbley....


There's another key difference, arguably more important, with "The Big Bang". The universe went into non-existence because of the crack. Remember, Amelia was sent to shrinks in that reality because she insisted there should be stars in the night sky. The TARDIS orbiting the sun was the only thing keeping the Earth and sun real. So all of those bad things that would have happened from alien invaders were it not for the Doctor did not happen because the aliens' planets didn't exist from sometime after 102 CE, just as the Doctor warned them before they locked him in the Pandorica.


Yes, but I think Arcadian Refugee was referring to the time period shown from the relaunch of the Universe on. I need to break this down chronologically, so I keep myself from getting confused:

1: Cracks in the Universe begin appearing, some of which begin altering the life of Amelia Pond.
2: Doctor is trapped in the Pandorica
3: Old Universe is destroyed by the exploding TARDIS which is the cause of the cracks.
4. New Earth with Doctor/Pandorica is being sustained by the exploding TARDIS (The TARDIS wasn't orbiting the sun, the exploding TARDIS in a Temporal loop WAS the sun.)
5. Pandorica has molecules of the Old Universe inside it, so by sending the Pandorica into the center of the exploding TARDIS the old universe will be everywhere and everywhen at once, thus rebooting the universe, except without the Doctor, who will never have existed because he was erased from existance.
6. Amy Pond returns the Doctor to existance (Retroactively) not only returning the Doctor, but everything he had done.

So I think Arcadian Refugee means the period between 5 and 6. That is, the period with the Rebooted Universe before Amy reboots the Doctor/the old Universe that didn't have the Doctor to save it.

Ouch...
 
2012-06-22 05:29:52 PM  

edip1976: 1: Cracks in the Universe begin appearing, some of which begin altering the life of Amelia Pond.
2: Doctor is trapped in the Pandorica
3: Old Universe is destroyed by the exploding TARDIS which is the cause of the cracks.
4. New Earth with Doctor/Pandorica is being sustained by the exploding TARDIS (The TARDIS wasn't orbiting the sun, the exploding TARDIS in a Temporal loop WAS the sun.)
5. Pandorica has molecules of the Old Universe inside it, so by sending the Pandorica into the center of the exploding TARDIS the old universe will be everywhere and everywhen at once, thus rebooting the universe, except without the Doctor, who will never have existed because he was erased from existance.
6. Amy Pond returns the Doctor to existance (Retroactively) not only returning the Doctor, but everything he had done.

So I think Arcadian Refugee means the period between 5 and 6. That is, the period with the Rebooted Universe before Amy reboots the Doctor/the old Universe that didn't have the Doctor to save it.


The way I saw that was that after event 5, the Doctor became nothing more than a fiction. I took that to indicate that all of his adventures also became fictions, so that Amy, et al, were now residing in a universe that lacked Time Lords, Daleks, and everything else associated with the Doctor.

Perhaps a stretch, but it seems to fit with the general meta-theme of the Doctor being Amy's "imaginary friend".
 
2012-06-23 08:05:12 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: RoyBatty: Haven't quite figured out yet if Rory is still plastic or not.

That never happened. Since the Doctor's TARDIS was responsible for the crack, and since the Doctor was made never-existed by the crack, the Doctor never happened, nor did the crack, nor did Rory or Amy ever go adventuring with the Doctor, so no one died or got plasticopied since, if the Doctor never existed, there would never have been need for him to have been lured to Stonehenge or indeed even anyone to lure him there. Or something.

Who cares that everyone still remembers all of that having happened.

Yeah, I don't much care for events since Tennant left. Hell, in "Turn Left" they showed how devastating things would have been to the Earth if the Doctor hadn't teamed up with Donna (because of the few mostly-Christmas invasions he stopped) yet apparently the world is just fine even though he would then never have stopped them or any of the earlier invasions either.


Yes but there's an important difference. In "Turn Left" the Doctor lived, then died, and the Earth was devastated in the wake of his Death. When The Doctor was unmade by the cracks in time, he ceased to exist, all the way back to the beginning of his life. The entire course of the universe would be different (he's been everywhere and everywhen, and can't stop himself from meddling)

HopScotchNSoda: DjangoStonereaver: Even though I guessed who she was talking about halfway through it when I
first watched it, that doesn't diminish the punch of seeing Rory orchestrate
the destruction of the Cyberman fleet single-handedly.

Rory didn't orchestrate shiat. The Doctor did that. It's not explained exactly how, so he may well have had Rory reroute Cybership cabling or adjust their controls this way and that, but Rory didn't orchestrate it.

Rory's badassery was strolling into the Cybermen's CIC like he owned the place and being completely unconcerned by their sidearms aimed at him and their potential reaction to the destruction of their fleet. As further explored in "The G-d Complex", Rory is without fear. His only motivator is his duty to protect those under his protection (usually Amy, but also his patients when the Atraxi attacked in "The Eleventh Hour"). He's got Sergeant Major Benton's calm, cool professionalism, with Ace McShane's fearless aggression.


While I agree that Rory is incredibly bad-ass, and may indeed be without fear, it was stated outright in "The God Complex" that Rory was shown the exit not because he is without fear, but because he is without Faith. (The victims were confronted with their fears to drive them towards their faith, to grow their faiths, on which the minotaur would feed). Rory is not religious and not superstitious. Standing guard continuously for 2000 years without even sleeping would tend to drive thoughts of religion from a mind- and with that large an observational timespan, even someone who was supersticious at the begining would likely not be at the end. But Rory does feel fear, quite often. And there's nothing wrong with that. The man who feels no fear is a fool, the man who lets his fear control him is a coward; the man who feels fear, but does what he must regardless, he is brave.
 
2012-06-23 01:25:30 PM  

Jorn the Younger: When The Doctor was unmade by the cracks in time, he ceased to exist, all the way back to the beginning of his life. The entire course of the universe would be different (he's been everywhere and everywhen, and can't stop himself from meddling)


You've been reading Moffat's early stuff like "Continuity Errors", haven't you? River's advisor at Luna University, Professor Candy, believes that the Doctor's meddling through time has been ultimately very harmful.
 
2012-06-23 01:39:25 PM  
By the way, folks, I tried to submit this yesterday but the mods shrugged it off:
Liz Shaw joins her Doctor, the Brigadier, and Sarah Jane.
Sgt. Benton (later W.O. Benton) and Jo Grant (now Jo Jones) are the only ones left from the Third Doctor's tenure.
 
2012-06-23 08:31:15 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Sgt. Benton (later W.O. Benton) and Jo Grant (now Jo Jones) are the only ones left from the Third Doctor's tenure.


Captain Mike Yates (Richard Franklin) is around still.
 
2012-06-23 08:50:04 PM  

pseudowho: HopScotchNSoda: Sgt. Benton (later W.O. Benton) and Jo Grant (now Jo Jones) are the only ones left from the Third Doctor's tenure.
Captain Mike Yates (Richard Franklin) is around still.


Ah, yes, I forgot about that environmentalist wacko traitor. Good catch.
 
2012-06-23 09:08:49 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: Ah, yes, I forgot about that environmentalist wacko traitor. Good catch.


Hey, he was brainwashed in one story and then tricked in a later one, but was always a good guy, never a traitor.

I like Yates...
 
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