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(National Review)   Obama cannot claim executive privilege over a scandal he owns lock, stock, and barrel because the papers requested never involved the White House   (nationalreview.com) divider line 275
    More: Ironic, President Obama, executive privilege, White House, D.C. Circuit, Furious, executive branches, DOJ, checks and balances  
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2255 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jun 2012 at 3:57 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-21 05:09:12 PM
 
2012-06-21 05:12:56 PM

whidbey: Hi, I'm a butthurt right-winger. How can you tell?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 300x251]

I am passionately outraged about Fast & Furious. Even though nobody else is --besides my ilk, anyway.

This is a petulant frenzy. A petulant frenzy.
I'm petulant. And I'm having a frenzy.


Liberal Butthurt typing detected.

/it's not a crime when we cover up a scandal!
 
2012-06-21 05:15:42 PM
I wonder if any conservatives have ever thought that Obama is letting this whole Fast and Furious thing garner so much attention to point out that in the last five years Mexico has confiscated 68,000 guns from drug cartels that came from the United States. The Republicans in Congress might have just served this one up on a platter without even realizing it. While Fast and Furious might have been a complete mess, those 2,000 guns are just a drop in the bucket of the guns going into Mexico from the United States.
 
2012-06-21 05:16:29 PM

downpaymentblues: Mikey1969: Jesus people, you may not like him, but please DO try and have just a smidgen of journalistic integrity for a change.

However, during the Iran-Contra scandal, Reagan waived executive privilege, making his documents, diaries and entire staff available for congressional scrutiny.

I was not aware of this. Thank you for the link. I have seen many people claiming Reagan used executive privilege during Iran-Contra.


Wow, I didn't notice that part... It doesn't completely surprise me though, because Reagan claimed 'Alzheimer's Privilege' instead, and suffered from a sudden case of C.R.S., it's natural that he had to set SOMEbody up to take the fall...
 
2012-06-21 05:16:38 PM

El Pachuco: Well, when your school of thought has been peer-reviewed and found lacking, it's natural to try to re-brand and disassociate yourself from a failed ideology.


The problem is that Keynesian economics suffers from a lot of problems as well. Frankly, economics has some fundamental math down, but they have an awful lot of variables for which they've been unable to account.

But that's just me. And my econ topped out at the college level.
 
2012-06-21 05:17:48 PM

beta_plus: Liberal Butthurt typing detected.

/it's not a crime when we cover up a scandal!


Thank you, kind patriot, for exposing the scandal of this Kenyan Black Usurper from Africa and his sekrit muzlim plot to repeal the second amendment in his second term. WTF was Shartbama thinking?
 
2012-06-21 05:18:32 PM
Desperately trying to get that mud to stick.
 
2012-06-21 05:18:45 PM

downpaymentblues: Ricardo Klement: Me: "Loonies."
Cameron: "Show me."
Me: "Examples of Loonies."
You: "Hey! Those are extremes!"

No farking shiat, really?



I think the point here was that the extremes on the left you mention get pointed at and laughed about. The extremes on the right you mention have quite a bit of power in the Republican Party (Grover being a perfect example).


That's why I want another party. The nutcases have taken over.
 
2012-06-21 05:19:50 PM

topcon: [i.imgur.com image 365x574]


Wow, that's a nice, full-of-fail pic right there.

- Getting out of Iraq and drawing down Afghanistan isn't good enough for you? Or would you prefer we just completely abandon both countries, and allow the ensuing collapse to make them even WORSE than before?
- So you just want Obama to send a team in to capture any al-Qaeda members who happened to be American citizens, so there's a chance soldiers could get shot/blown up and Obama could have his Carter moment?
- This is the only one that even has a SLIGHT bit of non-partisan meat to it, and that's only if you were dumb enough to think that any Presidential candidate actually has any intention of legalizing pot.
- The NDAA was a vital military spending bill, passed with a veto-proof majority even with the bullshiat rider. The signing statement was literally all Obama could do about the aforementioned rider. But concern trolls seem to WANT Obama to be a dictator.
 
2012-06-21 05:21:43 PM

whidbey: Hi, I'm a butthurt right-winger. How can you tell?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 300x251]

I am passionately outraged about Fast & Furious. Even though nobody else is --besides my ilk, anyway.

This is a petulant frenzy. A petulant frenzy.
I'm petulant. And I'm having a frenzy.


Also, butthurt right-wingers never gave a shiat about the program (started, as has been pointed out, under Bush) until a Democrat became President. That's something of a pattern I've been seeing.
 
2012-06-21 05:22:08 PM

beta_plus: whidbey: Hi, I'm a butthurt right-winger. How can you tell?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 300x251]

I am passionately outraged about Fast & Furious. Even though nobody else is --besides my ilk, anyway.

This is a petulant frenzy. A petulant frenzy.
I'm petulant. And I'm having a frenzy.

Liberal Butthurt typing detected.

/it's not a crime when we cover up a scandal!


I missed the part where he - or anyone - said that. Can you direct me to it?
 
2012-06-21 05:22:26 PM

lennavan: So, you actually think this is a sekrit plot to eliminate the second amendment? Do you also think Obama was born in Kenya?


I don't think there is any secret about it. You do realize that there was a CBS story about how the administration was going to use this to try and push a new "assault weapons" ban.

Second of all Holder has lied retracted testimony/made up documents 3 this now. Smoke, fire all that.
 
2012-06-21 05:22:51 PM

DaSwankOne: I wonder if any conservatives have ever thought that Obama is letting this whole Fast and Furious thing garner so much attention to point out that in the last five years Mexico has confiscated 68,000 guns from drug cartels that came from the United States. The Republicans in Congress might have just served this one up on a platter without even realizing it. While Fast and Furious might have been a complete mess, those 2,000 guns are just a drop in the bucket of the guns going into Mexico from the United States.


They seem to keep focusing on illegal exports of guns to Mexican drug cartels. How many laws do we need that say you can't export guns to Mexican drug cartels? Apparently no matter how man laws we have, it doesn't stop the government from doing it.
 
2012-06-21 05:23:28 PM
times not this
 
2012-06-21 05:23:55 PM

phaseolus: After reading a decade's worth of news items along these lines, can you honestly blame anyone for suspecting such a thing?


Not really. But I would expect some maturity and intelligence would help prevent that suspicion from blooming into full-fledged conspiracy-level belief. Firemen depend on there being fires for them to keep their jobs, and while every once in a while a fireman gets caught setting fires, the vast, vast majority are not the result of their actions, nor the result of fire engine manufacturers, nor the city pipefitter's union. War, of course, is such an ugly business, and so damaging, that no one wants to believe that it happens without some manipulation by malevolent external sources.
 
2012-06-21 05:24:44 PM

lennavan: Thank you, kind patriot, for exposing the scandal of this Kenyan Black Usurper from Africa and his sekrit muzlim plot to repeal the second amendment in his second term. WTF was Shartbama thinking?


People come up with this wild idea about creating a crisis as a reason for more gun control because the idea that the ATF did this just to see if they could get some people killed over it is too crazy to believe.

Then add in Obama's "under the radar" comment about gun control and here we are.
 
2012-06-21 05:24:49 PM

beta_plus: Liberal Butthurt typing detected.

/it's not a crime when we cover up a scandal!


The ta(R)ds have cried wolf so often, the real scandals kinda become a buzzing in the ear.
F&F had good intentions but was simply a botched.
 
2012-06-21 05:25:32 PM
It's "ironic" that some RW asswipe rag publishes it's 100th anti-Obama editorial opinion this week? I fail to see the irony, or anything else noteworthy.
 
2012-06-21 05:29:18 PM

Welfare Xmas: I don't think there is any secret about it. You do realize that there was a CBS story about how the administration was going to use this to try and push a new "assault weapons" ban.


I'm cusious as to how your logic equates 'The goverrnment farked up and watched people buy guns illegally' with 'Assault weapons ban'... That's like having a program to demonstrate the effects of drunk driving by paying people to get wasted and then drive home, and then when people die and you are caught, you pass a law to put breathalyzer ignition interlocks on eveyone's car in the country.
 
2012-06-21 05:30:57 PM

Ricardo Klement: phaseolus: After reading a decade's worth of news items along these lines, can you honestly blame anyone for suspecting such a thing?

Not really. But I would expect some maturity and intelligence would help prevent that suspicion from blooming into full-fledged conspiracy-level belief. Firemen depend on there being fires for them to keep their jobs, and while every once in a while a fireman gets caught setting fires, the vast, vast majority are not the result of their actions, nor the result of fire engine manufacturers, nor the city pipefitter's union. War, of course, is such an ugly business, and so damaging, that no one wants to believe that it happens without some manipulation by malevolent external sources.


At the same time, there are private companies and individuals that profit handsomely from war, and you can't claim that these companies and individuals are unable to exercise influence greater than that of the average citizen simply by virtue of money.

You cannot deny that the incentive exists, and where an incentive exists, someone will act on it.
 
2012-06-21 05:31:22 PM

Mikey1969: I'm cusious


*curious
Farking shaitty computer, my laptop isn't loading fark today for some reason, sorry...
 
2012-06-21 05:31:34 PM

Mikey1969: I'm cusious as to how your logic equates '


It's not my logic, I'm not "the administration" and CBS didn't write the story about me.

//should be obvious
 
2012-06-21 05:32:32 PM

Mikey1969: I'm cusious as to how your logic equates 'The goverrnment farked up and watched people buy guns illegally' with 'Assault weapons ban'... That's like having a program to demonstrate the effects of drunk driving by paying people to get wasted and then drive home, and then when people die and you are caught, you pass a law to put breathalyzer ignition interlocks on eveyone's car in the country.


"Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction"
 
2012-06-21 05:33:03 PM

Welfare Xmas: Mikey1969: I'm cusious as to how your logic equates '

It's not my logic, I'm not "the administration" and CBS didn't write the story about me.

//should be obvious


Well, if CBS says so...

/something something Rathergate
 
2012-06-21 05:33:15 PM

lennavan: Welfare Xmas: Newsflash 2: This is all about making what ever Holder is hiding stay hidden until after the election.

So, you actually think this is a sekrit plot to eliminate the second amendment? Do you also think Obama was born in Kenya?


I doubt he thinks anything at all, because that post was a direct quote from Rush yesterday.
 
2012-06-21 05:34:17 PM

Ricardo Klement: facepalm.jpg

So: what party is conservative fiscally, yet understands fiat currency and therefore doesn't lust after a gold-standard, is socially pragmatic, and believes in science? Too many PC loons in the Democratic party, and they aren't fiscally conservative.


The Democrats.

There's a couple of things you're premise is lacking:

First off, the "PC loons" are a creation of the right. They don't actually exist as a relevant political entity and never really have, you can FIND some Child-of-gaia-think-of-the-womyn-and-children type if you look, but most of them don't actually vote in the first place and they never take the lead. Their existence is inflated, distorted, and given press by right-wing media trying to play up another fear, the fear of the wimpy, shrimpy, limp-wristed lump. It's nonsense on multiple levels and pervasive only if not analyzed.

Second, "fiscal conservative" is bullshiat. It is the lunatic belief that economic models that have been disproved thoroughly in 3 of the last 5 administrations are going to somehow start working this time around. By the actual definition of the word "conservative" the democrats are "fiscal conservative" since they advocate a return to a past fiscal policy that worked decidedly better than current policy. An appeal to traditional tax rates, you know?
 
2012-06-21 05:35:54 PM

Ned Stark: With Romney we get a rightwing politician able to get compromises from the ultraright congress


Seems like when Joffrey had your head chopped off the common sense leaked out, if you think that Romney would in any way moderate that ultraright Congress.
 
2012-06-21 05:36:54 PM

TheBigJerk: First off, the "PC loons" are a creation of the right. They don't actually exist as a relevant political entity and never really have, you can FIND some Child-of-gaia-think-of-the-womyn-and-children type if you look, but most of them don't actually vote in the first place and they never take the lead.


I'd go so far as to say they're not really Scots at all.
 
2012-06-21 05:37:47 PM

paygun: TheBigJerk: First off, the "PC loons" are a creation of the right. They don't actually exist as a relevant political entity and never really have, you can FIND some Child-of-gaia-think-of-the-womyn-and-children type if you look, but most of them don't actually vote in the first place and they never take the lead.

I'd go so far as to say they're not really Scots at all.


He didn't say they weren't liberals. He said they aren't active within the Democratic party.
 
2012-06-21 05:38:00 PM
This administration has consistently favored the reinstitution of the assault weapons ban. It is something that we think was useful in the past with regard to the reduction that we've seen in crime, and certainly would have a positive impact on our relationship and the crime situation in Mexico. Eric Holder testifying to congress about Fast & Furious

But no Obama isn't trying to ban guns and that non-existant ban would never be sold by referencing all of the guns going across the border a large percentage of which were ferried across the border by the Obama administration.
 
2012-06-21 05:38:10 PM

Welfare Xmas: Mikey1969: I'm cusious as to how your logic equates '

It's not my logic, I'm not "the administration" and CBS didn't write the story about me.

//should be obvious


Yeah, but you fell for it. It's total bullshiat, and anyone with half a brain would be able to see that, CBS is just trying to garner traffic to sell ads with some fabricated crap...
 
2012-06-21 05:39:23 PM

paygun: Mikey1969: I'm cusious as to how your logic equates 'The goverrnment farked up and watched people buy guns illegally' with 'Assault weapons ban'... That's like having a program to demonstrate the effects of drunk driving by paying people to get wasted and then drive home, and then when people die and you are caught, you pass a law to put breathalyzer ignition interlocks on eveyone's car in the country.

"Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction"


Yeah, I didn't fall for that one, either.
 
2012-06-21 05:39:33 PM

qorkfiend: He didn't say they weren't liberals. He said they aren't active within the Democratic party.


yeah totally different
 
2012-06-21 05:39:47 PM

jcooli09: I doubt he thinks anything at all, because that post was a direct quote from Rush yesterday.


OMFG, truth/facts can be disregarded if Rash Limberger knows about them.
 
2012-06-21 05:40:22 PM

paygun: qorkfiend: He didn't say they weren't liberals. He said they aren't active within the Democratic party.

yeah totally different


It's entirely different. Not all liberals are Democrats and not all Democrats are liberals.
 
2012-06-21 05:41:09 PM

Welfare Xmas: This administration has consistently favored the reinstitution of the assault weapons ban. It is something that we think was useful in the past with regard to the reduction that we've seen in crime, and certainly would have a positive impact on our relationship and the crime situation in Mexico. Eric Holder testifying to congress about Fast & Furious

But no Obama isn't trying to ban guns and that non-existant ban would never be sold by referencing all of the guns going across the border a large percentage of which were ferried across the border by the Obama administration.


Saying that they "favor" it doesn't mean that they are in the process of trying to put a ban in place.

Jesus, over-reactive people like you are the reason I couldn't find ammo anywhere for 2+ years.
 
2012-06-21 05:41:14 PM

Mikey1969: Yeah, I didn't fall for that one, either.


So do you think you're smarter than the average slack jawed retard, or dumber? It sure seems like you're smarter to me.
 
2012-06-21 05:41:41 PM

Mikey1969: Yeah, but you fell for it. It's total bullshiat, and anyone with half a brain would be able to see that, CBS is just trying to garner traffic to sell ads with some fabricated crap...


So the main stream media just spews a bunch of right wing lies? Wow do you believe a skeret konspiracy againts Hussein Barak Obama is in play?
 
2012-06-21 05:42:15 PM

Welfare Xmas: jcooli09: I doubt he thinks anything at all, because that post was a direct quote from Rush yesterday.

OMFG, truth/facts can be disregarded if Rash Limberger knows about them.


Rush doesn't deal in truth or facts, and is an excellent bullshiat detector. If he says it, the chances are exceptionally good that it's bullshiat.

It works for people that repeat him, too.
 
2012-06-21 05:42:25 PM

qorkfiend: It's entirely different. Not all liberals are Democrats and not all Democrats are liberals.


I agree. I don't think the right has cornered the market on nutjobs, either.
 
2012-06-21 05:42:56 PM

Mikey1969: I couldn't find ammo anywhere for 2+ years.


Given your intelligence level and apparent emotional instability I'd say that's a good thing.
 
2012-06-21 05:45:20 PM

jcooli09: It works for people that repeat him, too.


What? You ad homonym attacks. You may want to try an argument style that is not false by construction.
 
2012-06-21 05:46:01 PM

paygun: qorkfiend: It's entirely different. Not all liberals are Democrats and not all Democrats are liberals.

I agree. I don't think the right has cornered the market on nutjobs, either.


The right gives their nutjobs seats at the table. The left ignores them.
 
2012-06-21 05:46:44 PM

Welfare Xmas: jcooli09: It works for people that repeat him, too.

What? You ad homonym attacks. You may want to try an argument style that is not false by construction.


That's not an ad hominem. This is an ad hominem: Your argument is wrong because you're ugly.
 
2012-06-21 05:47:40 PM

Mikey1969: Saying that they "favor" it doesn't mean that they are in the process of trying to put a ban in place.


When the president meets with a group whose stated goal is banning all handguns, and reportedly claimed to be working on more gun control, people take notice.

The campaign site that Obama put up during the election outright claimed that he sought a renewal of the assault weapons ban. It's not like any of this is a secret.

To say that just because he hasn't done anything yet that means he never will, is kind of like saying Lindsay Lohan isn't going to do any more coke because she's not high as a giraffe ass right this moment.
 
2012-06-21 05:48:40 PM

TheBigJerk: Ricardo Klement: facepalm.jpg

So: what party is conservative fiscally, yet understands fiat currency and therefore doesn't lust after a gold-standard, is socially pragmatic, and believes in science? Too many PC loons in the Democratic party, and they aren't fiscally conservative.

The Democrats.

There's a couple of things you're premise is lacking:

First off, the "PC loons" are a creation of the right. They don't actually exist as a relevant political entity and never really have, you can FIND some Child-of-gaia-think-of-the-womyn-and-children type if you look, but most of them don't actually vote in the first place and they never take the lead. Their existence is inflated, distorted, and given press by right-wing media trying to play up another fear, the fear of the wimpy, shrimpy, limp-wristed lump. It's nonsense on multiple levels and pervasive only if not analyzed.

Second, "fiscal conservative" is bullshiat. It is the lunatic belief that economic models that have been disproved thoroughly in 3 of the last 5 administrations are going to somehow start working this time around. By the actual definition of the word "conservative" the democrats are "fiscal conservative" since they advocate a return to a past fiscal policy that worked decidedly better than current policy. An appeal to traditional tax rates, you know?


The validity of differing economic approaches is a discussion for another thread. I would love to take a class from Krugman so he can explain why he believes in the Keynesian model. But at the Econ 300 level, it doesn't make sense.

The PC loonies are, in fact, there, and even though they (nor really much of the grass roots) have any pull in the party, I'd still have to put up with them.
 
2012-06-21 05:48:55 PM

jcooli09: Rush doesn't deal in truth or facts, and is an excellent bullshiat detector. If he says it, the chances are exceptionally good that it's bullshiat.

It works for people that repeat him, too.



A humble servant of God who partakes in political hackery wouldn't lie to old folks, that's just being non-compliant.
 
2012-06-21 05:49:24 PM

qorkfiend: The right gives their nutjobs seats at the table. The left ignores them.


Sure they do.
 
2012-06-21 05:49:36 PM

DrippinBalls: obama = bush


So you are voting for Obama then? Good to know.
 
2012-06-21 05:52:13 PM

paygun: qorkfiend: The right gives their nutjobs seats at the table. The left ignores them.

Sure they do.


And where is she now? Lost a primary for re-election, is out of the House and is a member of the Green Party. Is this the only example you have?
 
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