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(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette)   Toshiba: Do not print anything for one day and help save the planet. Printing and Paper Industry: How sustainable are the electronics you produce? Toshiba: On second thought   ( post-gazette.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Toshiba, Digital Society, waste minimisation, Rochester Institute of Technology, paper industry  
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1813 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Jun 2012 at 7:22 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-06-21 02:03:39 AM  
This seems like a weird thing to have a "day" about. Wouldn't paper and printing costs already cause budgetary concerns that would encourage companies to limit waste?
 
2012-06-21 02:33:37 AM  

RodneyToady: This seems like a weird thing to have a "day" about. Wouldn't paper and printing costs already cause budgetary concerns that would encourage companies to limit waste?


In theory, yes. In practice, however, never seems to work that way.
 
2012-06-21 04:57:28 AM  
Um, wouldn't they just print all their shiat the next day resulting in a zero sum gain? And how does this benefit Toshiba?
 
2012-06-21 05:34:27 AM  

Mugato: Um, wouldn't they just print all their shiat the next day resulting in a zero sum gain? And how does this benefit Toshiba?


The phrase is zero sum game, the phrase you wanted was zero gain.
 
2012-06-21 06:26:42 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-06-21 07:00:56 AM  
But if I don't buy gasoline that same day I can bring Exxon to its knees and gas will be fourteen cents a gallon the next day!
 
2012-06-21 07:36:17 AM  
I have a friend who works at a large Health Care business (Park Nicollet) and one day last year she emailed me something and I noticed this entire block of text/images at the bottom of her email going on and on about "save the environment" and "think before you print".

I asked her about that and she said it is now appended to all outgoing emails for their accounts.

After a month they removed it because when people printed out their emails, this new footer added a an additional page (with just the footer) to all print jobs.

I LOLed.
 
2012-06-21 07:37:31 AM  
My company had one of these internally. They tried to encourage not to print and make people 'get used' to alternate means as a method to be more 'green' and save money. It probably would have been taken more seriously if they hadn't made full-page color printouts describing the importance of the event, and put a copy of it on every desk in the building (even ones no one sits in) and copies for every billboard and door in the building.
 
2012-06-21 07:42:23 AM  
"Hundreds of hundreds of calls", eh?

It's been a long time since I've bought any office or computing product from Toshiba anyway.
 
2012-06-21 07:50:19 AM  

Creoena: It probably would have been taken more seriously if they hadn't made full-page color printouts describing the importance of the event, and put a copy of it on every desk in the building (even ones no one sits in) and copies for every billboard and door in the building.


That's funny right there. No one in the office said, "wait a minute..."?
 
2012-06-21 08:01:11 AM  

Mugato: Um, wouldn't they just print all their shiat the next day resulting in a zero sum gain? And how does this benefit Toshiba?


Not necessarily. At least in my company, a lot of the print jobs are something that's printed today, and thrown out today. So the same printout would have no value tomorrow. But it could be replaced today by just having two windows open at the same time for example.
 
2012-06-21 08:07:11 AM  
FTA: "That's like saying, 'Let's have a No-Eat Day,' " Mr. Makin said.

No, it really isn't.

FTA: "It's a completely ridiculous statement on their part."

Which you felt compelled to compound by adding some of your own?


FTA: Mr. Makin wants to debunk "the myths that have been propagated" about his industry's impact on the environment and on Tree's arboreal brethren in particular.

"There are more trees today than there were 40 years ago," he said.


Okay, I'll bite. That's true. However...

FTA: "Trees are crops. They're just like corn ... and we need to treat them like crops and not like they're some protected animal that's going to become extinct."

...the whole reason there are more trees than there were 40 years ago is precisely because we decided to protect them, nitwit.

Is the notion that resources aren't infinite really a "myth"?

Yeah, it's a pretty silly idea on Toshiba's part. But honestly I'm not any more impressed by the Paper Industry's "wisdom" on the matter.
 
2012-06-21 08:09:45 AM  
I work for in this industry so I am happy when everyone prints lots more, print print print! :)
 
2012-06-21 08:30:59 AM  
I never got why this saves trees: the paper is already made, and the paper industry replants the trees so they can stay in business. The paper processing plant is still spilling waste, I'd imagine, and saving a ream per week really won't stop that ream from being used elsewhere.
 
2012-06-21 08:31:22 AM  

SkunkWerks: Is the notion that resources aren't infinite really a "myth"?


Some people are so desperate to believe that that they think oil is somehow growing inside the earth and will be keep producing itself forever.
 
2012-06-21 08:34:56 AM  
"That's like saying, 'Let's have a No-Eat Day,' " Mr. Makin said.

It seems to me to be more like a "No Junk Food Day".

I am pretty sure that would offend Hostess...
 
2012-06-21 08:44:05 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Some people are so desperate to believe that that they think oil is somehow growing inside the earth and will be keep producing itself forever.


Link

I pretty sure the real answer lies somewhere in the middle. Though with the cleaner alternatives with wind and natural gas, I still don't know why we aren't really working for a better energy infrastructure. Our energy policy for the next decade will probably be one of the most important decision in the last century, but I'm sure it will fall behind abortion, gay rights, and birth certificates.
 
M-G
2012-06-21 09:10:25 AM  
So Toshiba is trying to get people to not print in their offices. The printing industry (those who actually do large printing jobs) is outraged. I think they've been breathing too many ink fumes.
 
2012-06-21 09:40:35 AM  

Ed Finnerty: After a month they removed it because when people printed out their emails, this new footer added a an additional page (with just the footer) to all print jobs.


How the hell do people who print their emails get jobs at these successful companies?

I need more money :(
 
2012-06-21 09:56:08 AM  

Creoena: My company had one of these internally. They tried to encourage not to print and make people 'get used' to alternate means as a method to be more 'green' and save money. It probably would have been taken more seriously if they hadn't made full-page color printouts describing the importance of the event, and put a copy of it on every desk in the building (even ones no one sits in) and copies for every billboard and door in the building.


But it made somebody "feel" good and that is really the only reason most of these "save the environment" things are done.

Outcome doesn't matter, it's just the intent and how it makes the initiators feel good about themselves.
 
2012-06-21 10:04:02 AM  

SkunkWerks: ...the whole reason there are more trees than there were 40 years ago is precisely because we decided to protect them, nitwit.

Is the notion that resources aren't infinite really a "myth"?


In the case of trees, resources are infinite. They're infinite because the paper industry uses sustainable logging practices and plants more trees than they chop down. There aren't more trees today because we all got together and decided trees are awesome, let's have more of them. There are more trees because the industries that make use of wood decided it would be in their best interest to adopt sustainable farming techniques.

Saying, "Save a tree" is as stupid as saying, "save the carrots."
 
2012-06-21 10:31:45 AM  
"That's like saying, 'Let's have a No-Eat Day,' " Mr. Makin said. "It's a completely ridiculous statement on their part."

I'm surprised he didn't go with
That's like saying "Let's have a no-breathing day" Mr Makin said "Are we prepared to have hundreds of dead children on our hands? They are our future"
 
2012-06-21 10:57:07 AM  
If you save a tree, I'll eat 2... or something.
 
2012-06-21 11:39:18 AM  

Honest Bender: In the case of trees, resources are infinite.


Mmm, nope.

Honest Bender: They're infinite because the paper industry uses sustainable logging practices and plants more trees than they chop down.


Not the same thing as "infinite" as I was using it here. You have to DO something (in this case, sustainable logging practices and re-planting trees) in order to replenish the resources that are, once again, not infinite.

I underline this bit of semantics because- the way the Paper Guy in this article was talking- it was something on the order of "Save trees? We don't have to do jack shiat to save them!" As if they magically re-spawn if you just camp them long enough. World of Papercraft, I guess.

When in fact, you do have to do something. You very much have to do something, and in fact, the whole reason he can even assert that bit-o-trivia that 'there's more trees now than there were 40 years ago' is BECAUSE we've been doing something about that for some time now.

Now, if Mr. Makin-himself-look-silly wanted to phrase this something more on the order of "well gee, you guys make it sound like we haven't been doing anything to replenish trees, and that just isn't so," that would be a very different thing.

It wasn't what he said. So yeah, still a nitwit.
 
2012-06-21 12:19:06 PM  

Babwa Wawa: "Hundreds of hundreds of calls", eh?

It's been a long time since I've bought any office or computing product from Toshiba anyway.


Don't be so sure about that. My memory is a little dated, but IIRC they make many of the parts for laptops. Even if your laptop doesn't say Toshiba it might be 50% or more Toshiba.
 
2012-06-21 12:37:47 PM  

Babwa Wawa: "Hundreds of hundreds of calls", eh?

It's been a long time since I've bought any office or computing product from Toshiba anyway.


Their MFPs are excellent. And their phone systems are really nice too. You know, the stuff that people who actually work use.
 
2012-06-21 12:50:54 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: SkunkWerks: Is the notion that resources aren't infinite really a "myth"?

Some people are so desperate to believe that that they think oil is somehow growing inside the earth and will be keep producing itself forever.


Tress, however, ARE growing and will keep producing themselves forever.
 
2012-06-21 12:52:37 PM  

SkunkWerks: Honest Bender: In the case of trees, resources are infinite.

Mmm, nope.

Honest Bender: They're infinite because the paper industry uses sustainable logging practices and plants more trees than they chop down.

Not the same thing as "infinite" as I was using it here. You have to DO something (in this case, sustainable logging practices and re-planting trees) in order to replenish the resources that are, once again, not infinite.

I underline this bit of semantics because- the way the Paper Guy in this article was talking- it was something on the order of "Save trees? We don't have to do jack shiat to save them!" As if they magically re-spawn if you just camp them long enough. World of Papercraft, I guess.

When in fact, you do have to do something. You very much have to do something, and in fact, the whole reason he can even assert that bit-o-trivia that 'there's more trees now than there were 40 years ago' is BECAUSE we've paper and logging companies been doing something about that for some time now.

Now, if Mr. Makin-himself-look-silly wanted to phrase this something more on the order of "well gee, you guys make it sound like we haven't been doing anything to replenish trees, and that just isn't so," that would be a very different thing.

It wasn't what he said. So yeah, still a nitwit.

 
2012-06-21 12:57:43 PM  

meanmutton: paper and logging companies


Are you suggesting they aren't people?
 
2012-06-21 01:20:49 PM  
I have to say, good idea in principal but not in practice.

As for Toshiba products, I've owned many laptops over the years and Toshiba has been hands down the best laptop I have owned in terms of durability and compatibility with OS's other than Windows. I run Mac OS X, Windows 7, and many linux variants on my Toshiba Satellite, while my older HP laptop(2 years old) will not run Mac OS X and is difficult to get running under linux.

To each their own but the next laptop I buy will be a Toshiba (but this time around I'm getting one with dual hard drive bays)
 
2012-06-21 01:21:08 PM  

SkunkWerks: meanmutton: paper and logging companies

Are you suggesting they aren't people?


I'm suggesting that unless you're a member of one of those companies, it's erroneous for you to use the word "we" in that sentence.
 
2012-06-21 01:48:12 PM  

SkunkWerks: Honest Bender: In the case of trees, resources are infinite.

Mmm, nope.

Honest Bender: They're infinite because the paper industry uses sustainable logging practices and plants more trees than they chop down.

Not the same thing as "infinite" as I was using it here. You have to DO something (in this case, sustainable logging practices and re-planting trees) in order to replenish the resources that are, once again, not infinite.

I underline this bit of semantics because- the way the Paper Guy in this article was talking- it was something on the order of "Save trees? We don't have to do jack shiat to save them!" As if they magically re-spawn if you just camp them long enough. World of Papercraft, I guess.

When in fact, you do have to do something. You very much have to do something, and in fact, the whole reason he can even assert that bit-o-trivia that 'there's more trees now than there were 40 years ago' is BECAUSE we've been doing something about that for some time now.

Now, if Mr. Makin-himself-look-silly wanted to phrase this something more on the order of "well gee, you guys make it sound like we haven't been doing anything to replenish trees, and that just isn't so," that would be a very different thing.

It wasn't what he said. So yeah, still a nitwit.


A monoculture of trees is still monoculture.

I am well aware of where my paper and 2x4's come from. Plantations. Fields and fields of trees that look like healthy forests, but in reality are nothing more than fields with pine or fir or popular instead of corn, wheat, or soybeans.
 
2012-06-21 02:02:19 PM  

meanmutton: SkunkWerks: meanmutton: paper and logging companies

Are you suggesting they aren't people?

I'm suggesting that unless you're a member of one of those companies, it's erroneous for you to use the word "we" in that sentence.


So, no one else- no other people or groups of people- other than paper companies has been responsible for, oh say national parks, or re-planting campaigns? At all? Ever?

Even assuming this massive bit of hyperbole is true (and I'm certain it takes less than even a cursory bit of research to confirm it's not), I'm really not sure what it gets you past the customary gold star. All it really means is our Paper Tiger in the article has even LESS reason to imply that trees magically reappear after you cut them down (yet he does anyway).


meat0918: popular


Poplar?
 
2012-06-21 03:15:21 PM  
A perfect example of greenwashing by Toshiba
 
2012-06-21 03:25:21 PM  

SkunkWerks: meanmutton: SkunkWerks: meanmutton: paper and logging companies

Are you suggesting they aren't people?

I'm suggesting that unless you're a member of one of those companies, it's erroneous for you to use the word "we" in that sentence.

So, no one else- no other people or groups of people- other than paper companies has been responsible for, oh say national parks, or re-planting campaigns? At all? Ever?

Even assuming this massive bit of hyperbole is true (and I'm certain it takes less than even a cursory bit of research to confirm it's not), I'm really not sure what it gets you past the customary gold star. All it really means is our Paper Tiger in the article has even LESS reason to imply that trees magically reappear after you cut them down (yet he does anyway).


They do the vast majority of the planting.

The most important point: trees are renewable. The whole "stop using paper, save the world" trope is ridiculous because paper does, indeed, grow on trees.
 
2012-06-21 03:36:55 PM  

meanmutton: They do the vast majority of the planting.


That doesn't count other forms of conservation (even if it's necessarily correct), and at any rate "we" is still perfectly valid.

meanmutton: The most important point: trees are renewable.


Renewable still isn't "infinite", not without action. Fish grow in the sea. Ask fishermen about how their catches have been in the last few decades.

Can you outpace the rate of renewabilty if you're entirely unmindful to how you conduct use?

Absolutely.

meanmutton: The whole "stop using paper, save the world" trope is ridiculous...


Great! Toshiba never said that. They said use less. Don't use it redundantly. And honestly, as trees can also be used for wood to construct things, having more to build stuff ain't a half bad thing, I think.

*grumbles something about old men that shout at clouds*

meanmutton: paper does, indeed, grow on trees.

If

you replant them. 'More trees than there were 40 years ago' didn't appear out of nowhere.

And, more accurately- since we're both being sticklers for detail- it more grows in trees than anything.
 
2012-06-21 03:53:40 PM  

meanmutton: The most important point: trees are renewable. The whole "stop using paper, save the world" trope is ridiculous because paper does, indeed, grow on trees.


But you can always chop down the trees faster than you grow them and eventually end up with nothing. Encouraging people to not waste paper and recycle paper and use recycled paper for situations that don't need high quality paper is a good thing.
 
2012-06-21 04:09:39 PM  
"EARTH FIRST! We'll log the other planets later..."

-a bumpersticker I saw on the back of a logging truck
 
2012-06-21 04:25:59 PM  

SkunkWerks: meanmutton: SkunkWerks: meanmutton: paper and logging companies

Are you suggesting they aren't people?

I'm suggesting that unless you're a member of one of those companies, it's erroneous for you to use the word "we" in that sentence.

So, no one else- no other people or groups of people- other than paper companies has been responsible for, oh say national parks, or re-planting campaigns? At all? Ever?

Even assuming this massive bit of hyperbole is true (and I'm certain it takes less than even a cursory bit of research to confirm it's not), I'm really not sure what it gets you past the customary gold star. All it really means is our Paper Tiger in the article has even LESS reason to imply that trees magically reappear after you cut them down (yet he does anyway).


meat0918: popular

Poplar?


yeah, brain fart.
 
2012-06-21 06:44:26 PM  

RodneyToady: This seems like a weird thing to have a "day" about. Wouldn't paper and printing costs already cause budgetary concerns that would encourage companies to limit waste?


cbs

When I was a graduate student, every year we got some administrative pos notice that everyone immediately threw in the garbage. Then a paperwork reduction act (or some such) was passed. So that next year we get a piece of paper telling us that we aren't going to get the other piece of paper due to the act.

/csb
 
2012-06-21 07:13:56 PM  

SevenizGud: cbs

When I was a graduate student, every year we got some administrative pos notice that everyone immediately threw in the garbage. Then a paperwork reduction act (or some such) was passed. So that next year we get a piece of paper telling us that we aren't going to get the other piece of paper due to the act.

/csb



I'm a grad student now. Generally speaking, we don't get paper notices unless it's official "for your file" things (e.g., yearly evaluations). Profs are encouraged to send out syllabi online, rather than print them, to shorten tests, and to use online course sites to manages assignments, and even to give test online if at all possible. Printing costs (and scantron costs) are astronomical. Switch a midterm for a 500 student intro class to online, you save about 2000 sheets of paper, toner, and the wear and tear on the copier.

Of course, this is a state school that doesn't get much funding from the state anymore, so we may be a bit more under then budgetary axe.
 
2012-06-21 10:01:47 PM  
"We've had hundreds of hundreds..."

So early in the article, too. Must be a 'green' editor.
 
2012-06-22 12:28:05 AM  
Previously Toshiba had a "No Drowning Kittens" day promotion going.

As you would expect, the kitten drowning industry was simply irate and up in arms over this slam against their industry. Hundreds of thousands of kitten drowners called to say they were never going to buy Toshiba again.

Toshiba backed down, suggesting that people just think more about using recycled paper bags when throwing unwanted kittens off bridges, rather than using virgin pulp.
 
2012-06-22 08:12:34 AM  

finnished: Their MFPs are excellent. And their phone systems are really nice too. You know, the stuff that people who actually work use.


Ah yes. Processing paper-based information. The pinnacle of any career.
 
2012-06-22 12:14:16 PM  
We can still read books printed hundreds of years ago. Try that with your Kindle.
 
2012-06-22 01:53:29 PM  

Asako: We can still read books printed hundreds of years ago. Try that with your Kindle.


[notsureifserious.jpg]

Just finished Siddhartha on my Kindle. And in 20 years, I can still read it. Unlike the copy I got in 9th grade, because lord knows where the f*ck that is.

/it's far easier to curate digital content than physical content
//ask Hollywood
 
2012-06-22 10:10:06 PM  
It's not just more trees, but they are genetically engineered to have more cellulosic material used for paper nd less lignin and other materials processed out during milling. Less waste. Faster growing trees with more product. It's true for cows, crops, trees, and coming soon...humans. And yes, more trees a crops now thn ever before. Far more sustainable thn electronics.
 
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