WhippingBoy: LabGrrl: "But...But...Who will teach him to shave?"

I did, by the way. I saw uncles and granddad do it enough times, and he had plenty of male friends. It's not rocket surgery.

How long is the hair under your arms? Or on your legs?

/just askin'

Don't you know, the ability to shave one's legs and pits is apparently is no training for the grave difficulty that is shaving manly facial hair, which apparently covers SOOOO much more area, and is sooo much more sensitive?

Seriously.

/This is what (some) straight people think.

I would happily assist the two in the photo to get knocked up

I'm calling BS on this, none of the lesbian couples I've ever seen look nearly as good as the two in the photo

Why do people think you need gender role models? Why not just role models?

Skyred: I'm calling BS on this, none of the lesbian couples I've ever seen look nearly as good as the two in the photo

Millions of women have married men they are not sexually attracted to because of money. Those who are not attractive enough to fetch a man make the smarter, happier choice of satisfying their more deep-seated urges.

Need a Dispenser Here: Is it me or did spentmiles get a lot more hits than usual?

It wasn't even one of his better efforts, but it sure reeled 'em in.

Akabander: Need a Dispenser Here: Is it me or did spentmiles get a lot more hits than usual?

It wasn't even one of his better efforts, but it sure reeled 'em in.

The best thing is that the things he writes are so believably outrageous that people will stop reading the thread and post an angry response WELL AFTER the seasoned farkers out him thoroughly as a troll. So you get fifteen comments about the good ol' days of trolling and then five more angry replies. It's a fashionable perennial, like pansies.

ciberido: More than you could possibly imagine.

fill me in

Splinshints: WTF are you on about? Nothing like those words appear anywhere in the headline.

i was making a guess at what subby's headline was in response to, perhaps you have a more accurate idea of what his headline and this thread is really about?

ciberido: spacelord321: Not sure if your trolling, but sadly, these are the lesbians I know. While I wouldn't describe it as hatred, they seem to have a mentality of defiance towards this "mans world". The lesbians I know haven't had/made the best opportunities for themselves so it's kind of the embattled mentallity that springs from poverty with a little bit of gender confusion thrown in.

I don't want to put words into your mouth or strawman you or anything, but it sounds almost as if you're equating homosexuality with "gender confusion" (whatever you may thing that term means). Perhaps you would care to clarify your position slightly?

The reason I use confusion is the combination of distrust in men coupled with predominately "masculine" attire. How would you describe that personality?

In contrast a close relative of mine is gay, but unless the topic came up you really wouldn't know it. He doesn't identify much with "fags" (His term, not mine. I'm not allowed to use it!). Of course I mean "flamers" (my term). He himself would describe them as gender confused and gay. I imagine they would say he is the confused one.

Besides. Being confused is nothing to be ashamed of. We all experience confusions of some sort. I confuse myself to be much cooler than I actually am all the time. Matching the inside with the out can be tricky for all sorts of reasons!

spentmiles: I would not let either of my daughters spend the night at a friend's house whose "parents" were lesbians. Most sleepovers involve playing dress-up, putting on copious amounts of makeup, painting each others' toes, and all that kind of stuff. It's all innocent and fun until sexual attraction is forced into the scenario. I would go into murder-mode if I found out that some creepy step-father was painting my daughter's toes. That just isn't right and indicates to me that the guy has pedophile tendencies. Lesbians are sexually attracted to women, therefore they're experiencing the same prurient urges when they interact with young women as they do with their lesbian cohorts. I'm sorry if I'm behind the times, but I don't want my daughter to have to deal with the sexual advances of a person in power at this young stage in her life.

Nice blanket statement. I'm sure your kids will grow up backwards just like daddy did.

studebaker hoch: I've never heard anyone complain of difficulties growing up with same-sex parents.

I've never heard anyone complain of difficulties being raised by wolves.

Study: kids raised by wolves doing well (w/cute wolf pic)

mrspof: spentmiles: I would not let either of my daughters spend the night at a friend's house whose "parents" were lesbians. Most sleepovers involve playing dress-up, putting on copious amounts of makeup, painting each others' toes, and all that kind of stuff. It's all innocent and fun until sexual attraction is forced into the scenario. I would go into murder-mode if I found out that some creepy step-father was painting my daughter's toes. That just isn't right and indicates to me that the guy has pedophile tendencies. Lesbians are sexually attracted to women, therefore they're experiencing the same prurient urges when they interact with young women as they do with their lesbian cohorts. I'm sorry if I'm behind the times, but I don't want my daughter to have to deal with the sexual advances of a person in power at this young stage in her life.

Nice blanket statement. I'm sure your kids will grow up backwards just like daddy did.

JUST FOUR POSTS DOWN! I LOVE IT!!!

Study: Kids of lesbian moms "doing very well"

Uh huh. Yeah.

veryequiped: When I die, I want to come back as the double ended dildo in that household

What makes you think they would use a double ended dildo? And what makes you think that if they were to use one, they don't go 4$$ to 4$$?

NTTIAWWT

fastfxr: I didn't have a dad for many of my formative years and it affected me greatly. Once puberty hit, I over-compensated by perfecting drinking, fighting, and womanizing.

You can't tell me the kid won't have issues...but he'll be damn good at picking out shoes!

I went the other way, into intellectualism/introversion/video games.


If not having a male role model makes no impact, why do we fund the Boys and Girls Club, Big Brothers Big Sister, the YMCA, the YWCA and other youth groups?

FirstNationalBastard: Wait, so people were saying that lesbian moms might do damage to children because the children wouldn't have any male role models in their lives, but they didn't mention or think about single mothers who would also provide a child with no male role models other than a steady stream of "uncles" who like to sleep over?

Well children do need male role models and I realize you never said they didn't... But you are right.

Being a good parent or even a good adult when dealing with children not your own is not a skill that increases or diminishes based on sexuality.

But hey, we're making progress, at least they don't claim that gay and lesbian couples are running around trying to adopt children to molest or convert to the evils of homosexuality...

In public...

Well, most of them don't do that anyway.

It's as if your sexual orientation which nature endowed you with is telling you that you aren't supposed to be a parent.

I drunk what: i was making a guess at what subby's headline was in response to, perhaps you have a more accurate idea of what his headline and this thread is really about?

The actual thread and headline or what you apparently are imagining these things to be in your own head? Because you ain't makin' no damn sense.

MemeSlave: Acharne: DrunkenBob: FirstNationalBastard: Wait, so people were saying that lesbian moms might do damage to children because the children wouldn't have any male role models in their lives, but they didn't mention or think about single mothers who would also provide a child with no male role models other than a steady stream of "uncles" who like to sleep over?

Lesbian mothers have no uncles to sleep over. That uncle provides invaluable masculine influence to the children. Sure, they're in small doses, but it makes all the difference.

/Lesbians bully their children into putting forth a good front
//LGBT manipulates its members more thoroughly than Mormons

As a child of a lesbian partnership. Ha Haa, ha ha ha haaaa. Ha HA. You're full of shiat. It's a child being raised by another human, same as any combination. There is no 'special agenda' that arrives from it. You're confusing us with Jews.

/And I'm kidding about the Jews.

I know some lesbian moms... and there's definately an agenda.

I know some straight parents, there is definitely an agenda.

Carry on, simple one. The world is much bigger than what your parents shared with you.

ciberido: there's actually a growing body of evidence that pedophilia is a sexual orientation in its own right, and pedophiles really don't count as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.

Pedophilia a 'sexual orientation' experts tell Parliament

Not anything I'm saying contradicts anything you said. Just throwing it out there.

and maybe someday they will get the respect they deserve, it's too bad you bigots can't be more open minded about their lifestyle choice (unless of course someone wants to argue that it's "genetic" ;p)

maybe ABC can make some pedo-friendly programming and show what kind of monsters would oppose such nice cute people

they can start out with an american idol style sitcom (called "Wee") where pedo's are just trying to make it in a cruel narrow minded world

then they can create a show called "post-modern family" in which 1 family consists of pedo's, and maybe they could have some open-minded neighbors who are into bestiality? nah too obvious (they should wait a couple more years for that)

then they can have a couple of subtle "what would you do?" episodes where some redneck grandma voices her disapproval of their orientation, then some joe blow (totally not a shill-actor) comes to their rescue and exposes that evil bigot southern bible thumper for what she really is

The Enemy

tl;dr

ABC needs to be a little more obvious about their agenda, americans are stupid and won't catch on until it's being voted on in congress

Splinshints: The actual thread and headline

let's try these and see what happens

what are they really about..? this post brought to you by ABC

Kathrin: DrunkenBob: //LGBT manipulates its members more thoroughly than Mormons

Dude, Wait... What?

As someone who a) grew up in a mormon household, b) could potentially be counted as any of the letters in LGBT, depending on who you ask, you're full of crap.

The mormons are a strict, controlling, patriarchal attempt to blend christianity and freemasonry. They have strictly controlled, revisionist doctrine, and exercise an insane amount of control through standardized temple "interviews", yearly accounting of your income for tithing purposes, and a specifically proscribed set of lessons, each taught more or less to the same class, on the same week, in every ward (chapel) in the country. As a class, the mormons control most of the business and government in the state of utah, and were largely responsible for the funding and passing of anti-gay legislation in several states, as well as the current GOP presidential hopeful.

The LGBT "community" is a loose association of people who, generally speaking, are sexually attracted to the same sex, or break certain societal gender norms. We work to build families, protect the people we love, and avoid institutionalized discrimination.

I'd go further than that, both in differentiation and description.

The LGBT 'community' is *very* loose, subject to countless internal disputes, and has no hierarchy or leadership whatsoever, and very little in the way of formalisation. Large and well-run advocacy organisations such as HRC and GLAAD may give us that appearance, but that's only to do to their prominence. Only some of us are members, and many of us have our personal issues with them. Local groups are nearly all independent of each other.

As for what we do, I'm personally interested in *everyone's* liberty and equality not just those I love. As much as I often feel that humanity as a whole really deserves to get hit by a killer asteroid, I still feel that each human being has exactly the same rights as every other, and that's entirely irrelevant to how we might feel about each other. Growing up queer in these last decades is, if nothing else, an education in fairness, and I'd like to think that anyone who has ever seen or experienced any kind of discrimination or oppression would absorb that lesson.

Kome: That paper was held up by some conservatives as an argument against gay marriage - Maggie Gallagher, founder of the National Organization for Marriage, said it showed that "the intact, married biological family, a mom and a dad" was the "gold standard" for raising kids. But if the male-role-model study is accurate, a mom and a mom may be just as good.

So then campaign to outlaw divorce, you ignorant pain in the ass. When you've got straight people to do what you want, then try to be a domineering control freak over the private lives of discriminated against minorities. Because, lemme tell ya, they're a lot harder to control.

NOM is a fanatical group of fringe Catholic lawyers and scholars. Really. I researched them. They're nearly all Roman Catholic, to a head. And not just any Catholics, but powerful Catholics. If Dan Brown is looking for material for his next novel, this would be a good place to look.

my two year old's best friend (a boy) has lesbians parents. They live about 4 houses down and my wife and I regularly go over there to hang out and let the kids play together. Their child seems to be coming up perfectly normal to me except when he gets hurt (scraped knee, bruises etc) he's got two hysterical women freaking out vs just one in my son's case. I'm sure he's going to have some complicated questions for them in the future but right now things seems to be going just fine.

mytdawg: spacelord321: jso2897: For a small thread, this one has certainly become a trainwreck of imbecility.

Meh. This is pretty mild. Can you imagine if they were Jewish lesbians? Guess it may have something to do with how invested you are in the topic. To my eyes there seems to be three types of imbiciles here:

The imbiciles.

The imbiciles that argue with them.

The imbiciles that watch it all with glee!

That pretty much describes every Internet forum, does it not?

No, it does not. It describes an awful lot of them, but not all of them. Even now, there are still online forums that aren't overrun with people like a lot of bratty Farkers and half-wit b-tards. Believe it or not. Many of these, are, understandably, closed or semi-closed forums, or ones where members enjoy a kind of internal democracy that's alien to most online forums.

It's extremely sad that anyone would consider this kind of grade-school discussion normal, never mind ubiquitous.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch:
The LGBT 'community' is *very* loose, subject to countless internal disputes, and has no hierarchy or leadership whatsoever, and very little in the way of formalisation. Large and well-run advocacy organisations such as HRC and GLAAD may give us that appearance, but that's only to do to their prominence.


You're an editor?

KiplingKat872: spentmiles: I would not let either of my daughters spend the night at a friend's house whose "parents" were lesbians. Most sleepovers involve playing dress-up, putting on copious amounts of makeup, painting each others' toes, and all that kind of stuff. It's all innocent and fun until sexual attraction is forced into the scenario. I would go into murder-mode if I found out that some creepy step-father was painting my daughter's toes. That just isn't right and indicates to me that the guy has pedophile tendencies. Lesbians are sexually attracted to women, therefore they're experiencing the same prurient urges when they interact with young women as they do with their lesbian cohorts. I'm sorry if I'm behind the times, but I don't want my daughter to have to deal with the sexual advances of a person in power at this young stage in her life.

Gay =/= pedophile.

Gay =/= unfaithful

Gay =/= ignoring parental boundaries

Gay =/= having no self control

Really, get a grip.

Tell that to all of the kids murdered by gay people who would not show just a little self control and use rubbers or not donte blood.
No they had to shrilly scream we are here we are queer and we want your kids. wel the little kids are dead now are you happy?
we need to study gay and find out why t happens then find a cure for it

Given the sheer number of bites I think spentmiles deserves a 9/10 on this one. Sometimes trolling is just knowing which buttons to push, and fundies love their babbys almost as much as they fear teh gayz.

Old Smokie: Given the sheer number of bites I think spentmiles deserves a 9/10 on this one. Sometimes trolling is just knowing which buttons to push, and fundies love their babbys almost as much as they fear teh gayz.

He fetched more than fundies. 9.5/10

Wangiss Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-21 04:21:44 PM


Old Smokie: Given the sheer number of bites I think spentmiles deserves a 9/10 on this one. Sometimes trolling is just knowing which buttons to push, and fundies love their babbys almost as much as they fear teh gayz.

He fetched more than fundies. 9.5/10



Other than any politics thread, the easiest trolls are homosexual, racist, or feminist threads. Just voice any non-socially acceptable opinion.

Gulper Eel: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: I reject your theory. While community unquestionably plays an important role in a child's upbringing, the notion that lesbian communities are a primary or even leading factor in the success of their children's upbringing is offensive on its face, for suggesting that parents would require that in order to be effective parents.

I didn't say "lesbian communities", I said lesbian-friendly. I don't even know what a lesbian community would look like.

And the key word in my phrase was "upscale". Just last week there was a study on the communities that had the highest percentage of gay/lesbian households. Every one of them was close to the top of the socioeconomic totem pole.

What you *actually* said:

Might this be more a factor of the communities lesbian couples live in than anything else?

It's a hell of a lot easier to find good role models of all kinds in an upscale lesbian-friendly place like Northampton....

If you want to be pedantic, you can indeed claim that I did not repeat you word for word. But when you put those sentences together, what you get is: "lesbian couples live in ... upscale lesbian-friendly place(s) like Northampton." And that is categorically false. Most people of all kinds do not live in such communities, and only a small minority of lesbian couples do, including lesbian parents.

EvilVanMan: I was really hoping for more pics of hot lesbians in this thread.

I was hoping for a dearth of useless people. We'll both have to learn to live with disappointment.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: EvilVanMan: I was really hoping for more pics of hot lesbians in this thread.

I was hoping for a dearth of useless people. We'll both have to learn to live with disappointment.

What do you like to use people for?

mytdawg: Foundling: If shutting down all understanding so that your narrow view of morality can become law is your goal, please go back to Saudi Arabia so that the rest of us can live as Americans.

Well that's the trick, isn't it? If "normal" is that straight conservative "god-fearing" hateful bigoted narrow rigid conformist do it my way or you're wrong and it needs to be legislated viewpoint then I'm glad to not be that way. White guys in suits have always been the enemy. White bourgeois middle class suburbanites boor the fark out of me. They're all potential BTK wannabe's. Stiff, uptight and seriously delusional about how important their lives are. Gotta be talking to someone on the phone all the time, important things to say. Important things to do, get out of my way. My SUV is more important than yours. Afraid of different, afraid of color and culture, afraid of germs. I carry hand sanitizer and mace, I have a concealed weapon permit, I'm scared. fark you. We need to be protected from you, not vice versa.

I'd rather hang around with the recidivists. At least you know what you're dealing with.

I gotta say, when I'm in places like New York, I'm much more comfortable in the villages than in the 'nice' areas like Midtown. And I don't like 'nice' restaurants, either, or being waited on hand and foot. I'm a diner girl, and feel most comfortable in no-bullshiat urban and blue-collar places, where people may not be ideal, but at least they're not fake and have some realistic idea of who they really are in the world. Upper-middle-class people, especially in numbers, creep me. the fark. out. It's like The Body Snatchers or something, like there's some factory that turns out cologne-soaked douchebags and prissy, fussy biatches who "can't" change a tire. More marginalised peoples can be rough around the edges, but they're authentic in the middle, where it counts.

You put all this much better than I can, but I wanted you to know that I hear ya.

Splinshints: I drunk what: i was making a guess at what subby's headline was in response to, perhaps you have a more accurate idea of what his headline and this thread is really about?

The actual thread and headline or what you apparently are imagining these things to be in your own head? Because you ain't makin' no damn sense.

He never makes sense. Look at any thread he posts in and you'll see his insane ramblings.

doubled99: Wangiss Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-21 04:21:44 PM


Old Smokie: Given the sheer number of bites I think spentmiles deserves a 9/10 on this one. Sometimes trolling is just knowing which buttons to push, and fundies love their babbys almost as much as they fear teh gayz.

He fetched more than fundies. 9.5/10



Other than any politics thread, the easiest trolls are homosexual, racist, or feminist threads. Just voice any non-socially acceptable presumptuous and misinformed opinion. FTFY

Acharne: doubled99: Wangiss Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-21 04:21:44 PM


Old Smokie: Given the sheer number of bites I think spentmiles deserves a 9/10 on this one. Sometimes trolling is just knowing which buttons to push, and fundies love their babbys almost as much as they fear teh gayz.

He fetched more than fundies. 9.5/10



Other than any politics thread, the easiest trolls are homosexual, racist, or feminist threads. Just voice any non-socially acceptable presumptuous and misinformed opinion. FTFY

Lulz. Good1./

Wangiss: Acharne: doubled99: Wangiss Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-21 04:21:44 PM


Old Smokie: Given the sheer number of bites I think spentmiles deserves a 9/10 on this one. Sometimes trolling is just knowing which buttons to push, and fundies love their babbys almost as much as they fear teh gayz.

He fetched more than fundies. 9.5/10



Other than any politics thread, the easiest trolls are homosexual, racist, or feminist threads. Just voice any non-socially acceptable presumptuous and misinformed opinion. FTFY

Lulz. Good1./

Trolls and the concept of trolling are just so 2001. It isn't funny. It harms discourse and it is rude in any form. I get to walk away from/make fun of people trolling in meatspace, I'll get to simply mock them online since I cannot change their opinions. It is not useful.

Acharne: Wangiss: Acharne: doubled99: Wangiss Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-21 04:21:44 PM


Old Smokie: Given the sheer number of bites I think spentmiles deserves a 9/10 on this one. Sometimes trolling is just knowing which buttons to push, and fundies love their babbys almost as much as they fear teh gayz.

He fetched more than fundies. 9.5/10



Other than any politics thread, the easiest trolls are homosexual, racist, or feminist threads. Just voice any non-socially acceptable presumptuous and misinformed opinion. FTFY

Lulz. Good1./

Trolls and the concept of trolling are just so 2001. It isn't funny. It harms discourse and it is rude in any form. I get to walk away from/make fun of people trolling in meatspace, I'll get to simply mock them online since I cannot change their opinions. It is not useful.

Meatspace?

spentmiles: I would not let either of my daughters spend the night at a friend's house whose "parents" were lesbians. Most sleepovers involve playing dress-up, putting on copious amounts of makeup, painting each others' toes, and all that kind of stuff. It's all innocent and fun until sexual attraction is forced into the scenario. I would go into murder-mode if I found out that some creepy step-father was painting my daughter's toes. That just isn't right and indicates to me that the guy has pedophile tendencies. Lesbians are sexually attracted to women, therefore they're experiencing the same prurient urges when they interact with young women as they do with their lesbian cohorts. I'm sorry if I'm behind the times, but I don't want my daughter to have to deal with the sexual advances of a person in power at this young stage in her life.

This is quality! This is why you're on my favorites. The finest and highest quality in trolling.

LabGrrl: One ignorant (I knew that) single mom (I didn't know that at the time) I knew never talked to me again after I replied to her snottily asking if my kid being raised by two moms was bad for him by talking about how the studies show two parents are better than one.
It started something like this:
"Of course he's affected by having two parents! Almost no one else he knows his age has two parents, having two parents instead of one is often the best case scenario, even when it's a blended family. When I'm not at my best, I have a backup. A single parent probably doesn't have that, unless they live with a grandmother or something, but we've got thousands of years of kids being raised by multigenerational families of women while dads are off at war and they all came out okay, so it seems to be all about the NUMBER of parents, a kid with two competent parents are always better off than a kid with one competent parent, and at least the kid with two is likely to have one out of two who can parent..."

"But...But...Who will teach him to shave?"

I did, by the way. I saw uncles and granddad do it enough times, and he had plenty of male friends. It's not rocket surgery.

But I thought lesbians don't like to shave...

/ducks.

spacelord321: In contrast a close relative of mine is gay, but unless the topic came up you really wouldn't know it. He doesn't identify much with "fags" (His term, not mine. I'm not allowed to use it!). Of course I mean "flamers" (my term). He himself would describe them as gender confused and gay. I imagine they would say he is the confused one.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but your close relative is homophobic. (Yes, you can be both gay and homophobic, though that's usually associated with the Republican party.) Homosexuality and gender identity are two entirely separate things. If Chis is an effeminate gay man (call him a "flamer" if you like) and Rob is a masculine gay man, neither of them is any MORE or less gay because of it. Nor is either of them necessarily "confused" about anything.

Your close relative is implying that there's a "right" way and a "wrong" way to be gay. That's really not ok.


spacelord321: Besides. Being confused is nothing to be ashamed of.

Maybe so, but accusing another person of being "confused" is asserting that there is a correct answer which she (or he) has failed to grasp. It's insulting, even if you do not intend it as such, to imply that a person is "confused" about their gender just because they do not conform to YOUR expectations.

In queer theory (as far as I understand it), "confused" only applies to a person who doesn't know who she is AND is in distress about that lack of self-knowledge --- or someone who is in distress because they are in denial of who they are (e.g., you're gay, but you don't want to admit you are and the idea of being gay bothers you). If, for example, you're not sure whether you're gay or not but you're ok with not being sure, then you're "questioning," not "confused."

Calling someone "confused" (in a lgbtq context) is like calling someone "obese" -- even if it's both objectively true and glaringly obvious, it's still not something to be done casually, and should only be undertaken if you are trying to intervene for their own good.

dericwater: What makes you think they would use a double ended dildo?

Men tend to think sex = phallic penetration, so they assume lesbians miss that penetration and try to "make up for it" with dildos.

It's not unlike how heterosexuals tend to imagine that every gay man loves anal sex.

Tumunga:
But I thought lesbians don't like to shave...

/ducks.

Oh, I'm not a lesbian. I'm just married to one.

doglover: Of course it hurts kids not to have male role models.

But just because someone blasts a load of cum in a vagina and you pop out, that man is not necessarily your male role model. It doesn't matter who raises you, it matters what you do. Good people can raise an orphan up right. Bad parents can turn their own seed into a horrible person.

Two lesbians can easily raise a kid of either gender if they're sane and there's other people around to socialize with. In fact, with enough sane people around, kids don't even NEED a parent once they're weaned.


Our daughter has three friends---two of the friends are boys, one is a girl---each with lesbian parents. They're all great, happy children that my children love playing with. It's abundantly clear that the children are well-adjusted, happy, well cared-for, and emotionally secure. They're going to grow up to be great adults.

ciberido: spacelord321: In contrast a close relative of mine is gay, but unless the topic came up you really wouldn't know it. He doesn't identify much with "fags" (His term, not mine. I'm not allowed to use it!). Of course I mean "flamers" (my term). He himself would describe them as gender confused and gay. I imagine they would say he is the confused one.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but your close relative is homophobic. (Yes, you can be both gay and homophobic, though that's usually associated with the Republican party.) Homosexuality and gender identity are two entirely separate things. If Chis is an effeminate gay man (call him a "flamer" if you like) and Rob is a masculine gay man, neither of them is any MORE or less gay because of it. Nor is either of them necessarily "confused" about anything.

Your close relative is implying that there's a "right" way and a "wrong" way to be gay. That's really not ok.


spacelord321: Besides. Being confused is nothing to be ashamed of.

Maybe so, but accusing another person of being "confused" is asserting that there is a correct answer which she (or he) has failed to grasp. It's insulting, even if you do not intend it as such, to imply that a person is "confused" about their gender just because they do not conform to YOUR expectations.

In queer theory (as far as I understand it), "confused" only applies to a person who doesn't know who she is AND is in distress about that lack of self-knowledge --- or someone who is in distress because they are in denial of who they are (e.g., you're gay, but you don't want to admit you are and the idea of being gay bothers you). If, for example, you're not sure whether you're gay or not but you're ok with not being sure, then you're "questioning," not "confused."

Calling someone "confused" (in a lgbtq context) is like calling someone "obese" -- even if it's both objectively true and glaringly obvious, it's still not something to be done casually, and should only be undertaken if you are t ...

He's not a homophobe at all. Just as you said he believes being gay and being gender confused are two different things. He is gay. They are both. Obviously there can be actuall chemical and even organ differences in some bodies that lead to these types of personalities. Neither of us believe that is always the case. He and I do disagree about the amount that environment plays into homosexuality. He believes it doesn't. I believe it has to on some level.

I also hold the view that religious people are the most confused of all. I still know many that I can have a civil conversation with. I learn plenty from them too. If they try to talk god with me I change the conversation or remove myself from it. Even though I think they're nutballs, I respect their American given right to be such.

Once again, I have many of my own confusions. I don't look down on other people for it. It's a natural result of having such limited perspectives.