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(Huffington Post)   Republicans propose tax hikes. Don't worry, they're not for the rich   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 180
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4970 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Jun 2012 at 5:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-20 07:22:25 PM

skullkrusher: The_Six_Fingered_Man: That $440K is not net. Net decrease is the $331k number.

right. Question is where the $440k comes from


It's got to be an average of tax savings across ALL incomes over $1m. There is no other explanation. The graph is shiatty, the analysis is shiatty, and the Democratic Staff of the Joint Commission on shiatty Tax Policies should feel bad for putting it out.
 
2012-06-20 07:53:00 PM
Employer-provided Health Insurance, Mortgage Interest,State and local taxes, and retirement savings are "special-interest" loopholes???

Wut??

I'll give you mortgage interest as that and §121 exclusion of principle residence contributed to the real estate debacle. You can take it even though it will have a huge impact on the middle class, lower & upper middle class.

Tax breaks on employer provided insurance is the only thing keeping many employers from actually having insurance plans tied to their work force. Eliminate that and the tax benefit of medical payments you got yourself an even bigger problem with rising medical costs.

Paying Federal taxes on taxes that you have paid to local and state governments.Really taxing a tax???
Does that then include interest on muni-bonds as income??? That'll piss off many state and local governments.

Retirement savings??? So if I'm a hedge-fund manager do I pay taxes on stocks and bonds that I haven't sold yet based upon the basis and the value at that time. Do I pay taxes on options and other derivatives??? I think not. So why then tax retirement savings??? Do you really want people fully dependent on Social Security when they retire.



Seriously, how high are these people??? I'm thinking it's bath salts.
 
2012-06-20 08:27:40 PM

wotthefark: I'll give you mortgage interest as that and §121 exclusion of principle residence contributed to the real estate debacle. You can take it even though it will have a huge impact on the middle class, lower & upper middle class.


And that's what the WaPo link in TFA points out. There's no reason for it anymore, and it only serves two purposes -- 1. To over-extend people on credit, and 2. Keep people locked in to failed communities.

wotthefark: Tax breaks on employer provided insurance is the only thing keeping many employers from actually having insurance plans tied to their work force. Eliminate that and the tax benefit of medical payments you got yourself an even bigger problem with rising medical costs.


They also serve to lock people into an employment situation just for the health benefits. A single-payer insurance system would be better. The rumored Romney plan pulls the tax writeoff for this, which would equalize the private insurance market a bit, but still wouldn't cover everybody....
Paying Federal taxes on taxes that you have paid to local and state governments.Really taxing a tax???
Does that then include interest on muni-bonds as income??? That'll piss off many state and local governments.

wotthefark: Retirement savings??? So if I'm a hedge-fund manager do I pay taxes on stocks and bonds that I haven't sold yet based upon the basis and the value at that time. Do I pay taxes on options and other derivatives??? I think not. So why then tax retirement savings??? Do you really want people fully dependent on Social Security when they retire.


See the health benefits. It's bad for the country when people get locked in to an employer just because they're offering a 2% match, and everybody else is only offering 1.5%. I'd prefer they let employers continue to count those as expenses, and lift the cap on the "employer contribution" to SS. Since that's an excise tax, uncapping it wouldn't be a problem. (where uncapping the individual contribution would be.)
 
2012-06-20 08:51:17 PM

Bonkthat_Again: You know, I just don't understand the whole distribution of wealth. No matter what the very wealthy proposes, short of killing themselves and leaving all their assets to be spilt evenly amongst all Americans, it can't work.

*warning* Shiatty analogy ahead

If there are 10 of us in the desert, being pulled on a cart by a camel, all 10 of use must contribute some of our water to the camel. If 9 of us have a gallon of water each, except for the rich guy....he has 1000 gallons, it doesn't matter what 9 of us give to the camel. In a hundred miles, he's going to dehydrate....unless the rich guy either gives us each 10-20 gallons, or flat out gives the water directly to the camel. There is a finite amount of water. We all used to have roughly 100 gallons each. But the rich guy taxed us so heavy (because he owned the cart)...he even made some back door deal with the cart driver whereas we had to pay the driver too, but the water ended up with the rich guy anyway...I don't know.


In the desert, it's hard to find a body.
 
2012-06-20 08:55:01 PM
If you aren't making at least $250,000/yr and still vote Republican you are a complete farking idiot and deserve any financial hardships that befall you.
 
2012-06-20 09:15:09 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Bonkthat_Again: You know, I just don't understand the whole distribution of wealth. No matter what the very wealthy proposes, short of killing themselves and leaving all their assets to be spilt evenly amongst all Americans, it can't work.

*warning* Shiatty analogy ahead

If there are 10 of us in the desert, being pulled on a cart by a camel, all 10 of use must contribute some of our water to the camel. If 9 of us have a gallon of water each, except for the rich guy....he has 1000 gallons, it doesn't matter what 9 of us give to the camel. In a hundred miles, he's going to dehydrate....unless the rich guy either gives us each 10-20 gallons, or flat out gives the water directly to the camel. There is a finite amount of water. We all used to have roughly 100 gallons each. But the rich guy taxed us so heavy (because he owned the cart)...he even made some back door deal with the cart driver whereas we had to pay the driver too, but the water ended up with the rich guy anyway...I don't know.

Yeah, that's a pretty shiatty analogy. :-)

Here's a better way to look at it.

There are 10 people in a village. They want to make a pie. One guy says" I have a recipe"- you guys collect the ingredients and we'll make the pie.

So 9 of them work hard all day and gather the apples, cinnamon, wheat, etc. They bring the recipe guy the ingredients-who then sits back and tells the other 9 how to cook it.

When the pie is done- it is cut into 10 pieces. To which the One Recipe guy claims 9 of the slices "There would be no pie without my recipe." Leaving one for the other 9. He uses one slice to bribe two others to protect his reaming 8. One is named The Government, the other is named The Law and they are the biggest guys in the village.

And there you have American Distribution of wealth.


You two just made the entire thread. Seriously. These are the best analogies I've seen in my life.
 
2012-06-20 09:34:07 PM
In times of crisis, placing the burden of recovery on those hardest hit by said crisis while asking those who can easiest afford to contribute and still live in not only comfort but luxury to not lift a finger, especially those who orchestrated said crisis in the first place is not only immoral, reprehensible and despicable...

It's STUPID!
 
2012-06-20 09:54:58 PM
Sadly a lot of people would see their taxes go up and blame the Democrats because it must be their fault somehow.
 
2012-06-20 10:41:10 PM

wotthefark: Employer-provided Health Insurance, Mortgage Interest,State and local taxes, and retirement savings are "special-interest" loopholes???

Wut??

I'll give you mortgage interest as that and §121 exclusion of principle residence contributed to the real estate debacle. You can take it even though it will have a huge impact on the middle class, lower & upper middle class.

Tax breaks on employer provided insurance is the only thing keeping many employers from actually having insurance plans tied to their work force. Eliminate that and the tax benefit of medical payments you got yourself an even bigger problem with rising medical costs.

Paying Federal taxes on taxes that you have paid to local and state governments.Really taxing a tax???


Just as the mortgage interest deduction has little real result other than making people buy more expensive homes than they really need, the employer's health insurance credit also causes the average worker to consume too much of a good thing. If the boss buys him a nicer plan, he'll take it and use it, even if he doesn't need it and wouldn't have bought it for himself. If he received instead a tax credit or subsidy to buy from a wide range of insurance options, he probably takes the high deductible plan and consumes less care, leaving the doctor fee to give more attention to those who are actually sick.

Finally, the deduction of state taxes for me never passed the logic test. Person A and person B made the same income but in different states. They enjoy the same benefits and protections from the federal government, but if person B pays a lot of state tax and person A does not, person A might pay a lot more in Federal tax for the same benefits. Meanwhile person B got his federal services at a discount and probably enjoys better police and school services from his state because he paid higher state taxes for them.
 
2012-06-20 10:45:47 PM
Typical republican
calling the poor freeloaders while shifting more and more of the tax burden on to them while shifting it away from those who do not have to worry about where their meal comes from.

As a semi anarchist my only consolation is that such a system can only collapse on itself.

Hypnozombie
 
2012-06-20 11:16:23 PM

GentDirkly: wotthefark: Employer-provided Health Insurance, Mortgage Interest,State and local taxes, and retirement savings are "special-interest" loopholes???

Wut??

I'll give you mortgage interest as that and §121 exclusion of principle residence contributed to the real estate debacle. You can take it even though it will have a huge impact on the middle class, lower & upper middle class.

Tax breaks on employer provided insurance is the only thing keeping many employers from actually having insurance plans tied to their work force. Eliminate that and the tax benefit of medical payments you got yourself an even bigger problem with rising medical costs.

Paying Federal taxes on taxes that you have paid to local and state governments.Really taxing a tax???


Just as the mortgage interest deduction has little real result other than making people buy more expensive homes than they really need, the employer's health insurance credit also causes the average worker to consume too much of a good thing. If the boss buys him a nicer plan, he'll take it and use it, even if he doesn't need it and wouldn't have bought it for himself. If he received instead a tax credit or subsidy to buy from a wide range of insurance options, he probably takes the high deductible plan and consumes less care, leaving the doctor fee to give more attention to those who are actually sick.

Finally, the deduction of state taxes for me never passed the logic test. Person A and person B made the same income but in different states. They enjoy the same benefits and protections from the federal government, but if person B pays a lot of state tax and person A does not, person A might pay a lot more in Federal tax for the same benefits. Meanwhile person B got his federal services at a discount and probably enjoys better police and school services from his state because he paid higher state taxes for them.


High deductible plans where an individual pays $5000 per member of the family before co-insurance kicks in are still driving up costs. A trip to the emergency room and continuing care will eat that up in minutes. Then people can't pay the ongoing bills thus increasing health costs even more. So much for the tax credit.

If you make $50000 a yr and $15000 is going towards health insurance with an additional 20% after the fact you are going to the poor house faster than people choosing to be healthy utilizing plans with smaller deductibles. That's then a form of regressive taxation from the insurance co.s against;not only the sick, but the poor and middle class.

The only answer is then single payer which I have no problem with but I was thinking the Repub's would have a big problem with it. That then creates a tax instead of insurance companies which could be set up similar to medicare covering all individuals with the individuals kicking in for the 20% co-insurance by supplemental insurance or not. This will piss off the insurance co.s and the Republicans.

The State and local taxation actually makes sense. Does it cost more to live in NY city or Mississippi??? More people consuming more resources in a metro area.

State sales tax is regressive in that it again farks over the poor. Income tax is less regressive. Why then federally tax local and state tax if it's a tax you have already paid??? makes no sense.

The states will start charging tax on federal bonds and vice versa. Muni bonds would then have less incentive for institutions and individuals to invest in. With less muni bonds in place the states will be asking for more from the feds. This means of course then less institutions and individuals will purchase Treasury Bills, Notes, Bonds, and TIPS as it has no benefit with state taxation.
 
2012-06-21 12:12:19 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: vpb: You need labor, infrastructure, consumer demand for your product, infrastructure, resources and many other things.

You said "infrastructure" twice.


He really likes infrastructure.
 
2012-06-21 03:14:10 AM

namatad: Specifically, anyone who earns less than $200,000 a year would see their taxes go up by at least $1,000, and in some cases as much as $4,600, according to the JEC. Meanwhile, people who earn a million dollars or more would get a tax cut of between $286,000 and $331,000 a year.

can we just get it over with and KILL all these politicians already?
pretty please???
no??????????????

sigh


I have you favorited as "A Good Guy". Nothing in your post changes this in the least.
 
2012-06-21 06:31:55 AM

Jackson Herring: Pie is legal theft. Also camels.


Money equals power. Power equals camel. Camel equals five celery sticks.

Five.

/quid pro quo
 
2012-06-21 06:47:03 AM
The smartest thing the republicans ever did was capture the gun nuts. Make sure you pretend to be on their side so all the farked over army snipers never go after the right people when they finally despool.
 
2012-06-21 07:05:04 AM
i208.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-21 07:06:46 AM
i208.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-21 07:07:50 AM
This has to be a joke. Do these guys want to hand Obama another term on a silver platter, and moreover, do they really hate being re-elected themselves? But most important of all, do they not understand that the Internet is full of all kinds of useful information?

For example: http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Guillotine
 
2012-06-21 07:08:55 AM
i208.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-21 07:57:48 AM

GentDirkly: wotthefark: Employer-provided Health Insurance, Mortgage Interest,State and local taxes, and retirement savings are "special-interest" loopholes???

Wut??

I'll give you mortgage interest as that and §121 exclusion of principle residence contributed to the real estate debacle. You can take it even though it will have a huge impact on the middle class, lower & upper middle class.

Tax breaks on employer provided insurance is the only thing keeping many employers from actually having insurance plans tied to their work force. Eliminate that and the tax benefit of medical payments you got yourself an even bigger problem with rising medical costs.

Paying Federal taxes on taxes that you have paid to local and state governments.Really taxing a tax???


Just as the mortgage interest deduction has little real result other than making people buy more expensive homes than they really need, the employer's health insurance credit also causes the average worker to consume too much of a good thing. If the boss buys him a nicer plan, he'll take it and use it, even if he doesn't need it and wouldn't have bought it for himself. If he received instead a tax credit or subsidy to buy from a wide range of insurance options, he probably takes the high deductible plan and consumes less care, leaving the doctor fee to give more attention to those who are actually sick.

Finally, the deduction of state taxes for me never passed the logic test. Person A and person B made the same income but in different states. They enjoy the same benefits and protections from the federal government, but if person B pays a lot of state tax and person A does not, person A might pay a lot more in Federal tax for the same benefits. Meanwhile person B got his federal services at a discount and probably enjoys better police and school services from his state because he paid higher state taxes for them.


Yea, lets go ahead and restrict access to healthcare by using the all mighty hand of the free market, amirite?
 
2012-06-21 08:43:28 AM

imontheinternet: [realneo.us image 375x500]

You have to pay your fair share, freeloader. We're taking the dog.

- Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY)



xtupload.com
 
2012-06-21 08:47:09 AM

orangehat: Sadly a lot of people would see their taxes go up and blame the Democrats because it must be their fault somehow.


I still get mail at my house sent to the previous owners; a solidly Republican older couple. I recently got a fund-raising letter from John Boehner's office, and it was a disgustingly disingenuous, misleading piece of garbage.

I shiat you not, the letter said something along the lines of "help me lead the charge against Democrat-controlled Washington". My first thought was "if Democrats are so in control, how come you're Speaker of the House?"

Motherfarkers know how to divide by zero.
 
2012-06-21 09:02:06 AM

Dedmon: Yea, lets go ahead and restrict access to healthcare by using the all mighty hand of the free market, amirite?


Health care keeps getting more expensive because demand is very high. Private insurance hasn't been able to stop this growth of demand, because providers and the government throw too many wrenches out there. There are only two ways to reduce demand.

One is to have the government, via bureaucratic policies, prioritize who needs care the most. This creates long waits, a lack of responsiveness, and strains the doctor-patient relationship. People who want care are denied it because the government decided that they aren't sick enough, or that doing a certain preventative treatment doesn't have enough benefit to society as a whole.

The other way is to have people decide for themselves if they feel "$100 sick" today or "$1000 sick" today. Let doctors inform people about the benefits of various preventative treatments, and let people decide for themselves if the vaccine is worth $200 or not.

Government is certainly going to have more access to information than the individual, however history in this country shows that people may vote for themselves to have excessive benefits, "free candy", contrary to sound economic or medical advice (i.e. it's easy to imagine a politician running on a "free MRIs for all!" platform).

People in our society have more individualistic attitudes, so the second approach is probably best for us. We don't trust large organizations to make these kinds of decisions for us. Yes, many people will make wrong choices but as long as the doctor gave sound advice, that's no one's fault but their own.
 
2012-06-21 09:09:01 AM
Now, we can decide on a case by case basis if the government or individuals should have the authority to pay and decide about different treatments and procedures. The measles vaccine, for instance; it's probably best that the government go ahead and buy that for us, make it free; vaccines make society as a whole healthier. Same thing with basic hospice care. But other things? Like joint reconstruction, pacemakers, chemotherapy? Yes they are all life-saving but that doesn't mean you have to make them free to all comers. For instance, someone who is over 80 years old will not get much benefit from many of those things, they would rather die naturally.
 
2012-06-21 09:47:45 AM
came here for discussion on taxes, instead got stories about camels and pies?

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-06-21 09:54:49 AM
Get rid of Bush tax cuts, raise taxes on everyone.
 
2012-06-21 09:57:12 AM

Pincy: If you aren't making at least $250,000/yr and still vote Republican you are a complete farking idiot and deserve any financial hardships that befall you.


Not running into any financial hardships, but thanks!
 
2012-06-21 12:30:54 PM

Zerochance: orangehat: Sadly a lot of people would see their taxes go up and blame the Democrats because it must be their fault somehow.

I still get mail at my house sent to the previous owners; a solidly Republican older couple. I recently got a fund-raising letter from John Boehner's office, and it was a disgustingly disingenuous, misleading piece of garbage.

I shiat you not, the letter said something along the lines of "help me lead the charge against Democrat-controlled Washington". My first thought was "if Democrats are so in control, how come you're Speaker of the House?"

Motherfarkers know how to divide by zero.


A letter or a post card?
 
2012-06-21 02:15:23 PM
"Republicans. I hate these guys." --Indiana Jones
 
2012-06-21 06:24:50 PM

derpdeederp: Pincy: If you aren't making at least $250,000/yr and still vote Republican you are a complete farking idiot and deserve any financial hardships that befall you.

Not running into any financial hardships, but thanks!


Admitting you're an idiot is the first step to recovery
 
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