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(Wired)   CERN may or may not have found the Higgs boson. This is not a repeat from 2013   (wired.com) divider line 53
    More: Interesting, CERN, physics, bosons, particle physics, supersymmetry, LHC, atoms, higgs particles  
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4217 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jun 2012 at 12:16 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-20 12:16:07 PM
I predicted this back in 2049
 
2012-06-20 12:17:45 PM

SmackLT: I predicted this back in 2049


So in about 37 years we can get off your lawn. Until then, I'm walking all over it.
 
2012-06-20 12:18:12 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com

Found him!
 
2012-06-20 12:19:17 PM
They've got a 4-sigma result, which is definitely pretty good. It's not clinching, but there's a very slim chance they're wrong.
 
2012-06-20 12:19:21 PM
Can someone explain what they use to detect this thing? Is it just that the pattern of the 'explosion' is in some predictable shape therefore Higgs-Boson = exists?

All this stuff seems so theoretical.
 
2012-06-20 12:21:52 PM
I thought they already announced this next week and are going to announce it again yesterday?
 
2012-06-20 12:24:03 PM
No, no--the found Higgs the Bosun.

www.zooted.co.uk
 
2012-06-20 12:28:09 PM
SERN?

coldlink.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-06-20 12:28:19 PM

justtray: All this stuff seems so theoretical.


The first part is indeed motivated by the theory. In what entrance channel does it form (gluon fusion mostly), and what are then the expected decay channels? (pair of b quarks, or 2 tau leptons, or 2 gammas, or W*W or Z*Z, ...., and which is more likely depends on the Higgs mass)
Then the experiments set up triggers on the various expected final state patterns, collect the data, do the detector calibrations etc offline, and look for significant excesses beyond known backgrounds. cheers
 
2012-06-20 12:31:26 PM
125 Gigaelectronvolts!

upload.wikimedia.org

Great Scott!
 
2012-06-20 12:31:27 PM
True Fact... I live one mile from Fermilab, where there's a herd of North American buffalo. I call them... The Higgs Bison.
 
2012-06-20 12:38:49 PM

t3knomanser: They've got a 4-sigma result, which is definitely pretty good. It's not clinching, but there's a very slim chance they're wrong.


Are you in Operations management, industrial engineering, operations research, or SCM by any chance?
 
2012-06-20 12:42:42 PM

wjllope: justtray: All this stuff seems so theoretical.

The first part is indeed motivated by the theory. In what entrance channel does it form (gluon fusion mostly), and what are then the expected decay channels? (pair of b quarks, or 2 tau leptons, or 2 gammas, or W*W or Z*Z, ...., and which is more likely depends on the Higgs mass)
Then the experiments set up triggers on the various expected final state patterns, collect the data, do the detector calibrations etc offline, and look for significant excesses beyond known backgrounds. cheers


i.qkme.me
 
2012-06-20 12:49:51 PM
www.scifidimensions.com

"I've got a bad feeling about this."
 
2012-06-20 12:50:14 PM

wjllope: justtray: All this stuff seems so theoretical.

The first part is indeed motivated by the theory. In what entrance channel does it form (gluon fusion mostly), and what are then the expected decay channels? (pair of b quarks, or 2 tau leptons, or 2 gammas, or W*W or Z*Z, ...., and which is more likely depends on the Higgs mass)
Then the experiments set up triggers on the various expected final state patterns, collect the data, do the detector calibrations etc offline, and look for significant excesses beyond known backgrounds. cheers


Hahaha I appreciate it. It'll probably take me as long to wikipedia all that as it will for them to get the results! =)
 
2012-06-20 12:53:14 PM

Aamelrons: t3knomanser: They've got a 4-sigma result, which is definitely pretty good. It's not clinching, but there's a very slim chance they're wrong.

Are you in Operations management, industrial engineering, operations research, or SCM by any chance?


Maybe he just RTFA:

the hard data only amounted to what scientists call a 3-sigma signal, meaning that there is a 0.13 percent probability that the events happened by chance. This is the level at which particle physicists will only say they have "evidence" for a particle.

In the rigorous world of high-energy physics, researchers wait to see a 5-sigma signal, which has only a 0.000028 percent probability of happening by chance, before claiming a "discovery."

The latest Higgs rumors suggest nearly-there 4-sigma signals are turning up at both of the two separate LHC experiments that are hunting for the particle. As physicist Philip Gibbs points out on his blog, Vixra log, if each experiment is seeing a 4-sigma signal, then this is almost definitely the long-sought particle. Combining the two 4-sigma results should be enough to clear that 5-sigma hurdle.
 
2012-06-20 12:57:58 PM
forums.trinituner.com
 
2012-06-20 01:07:27 PM
Today they find it.

Tomorrow...This
 
2012-06-20 01:07:34 PM
At work on mobile.

Someone post the youtube vid that explains the search for higgs
 
2012-06-20 01:22:22 PM
Subby, what you did there, I see it. Well played.
 
2012-06-20 01:32:39 PM
Nonsense, I found the Higgs Bison at Fermilab today on lunch!

farm6.staticflickr.com
I Found The Higgs Bison! by Mista Sparkle, on Flickr
 
2012-06-20 01:46:55 PM

Aamelrons: Are you in Operations management, industrial engineering, operations research, or SCM by any chance?


No, but I remember enough about statistics to understand the value of a 5-sigma result (6-sigma can jump up my butt).

justtray: All this stuff seems so theoretical.


You're more or less on the right path, though. Quantum mechanics governs how one kind of particle can decay into another kind of particle. So if we smash together a pair of electrons, for example, we know that 90% of the time, they'll decay into this pattern of particles, 8% into this pattern, 1.9% into that one, and 0.1% into some other pattern (these numbers are all made up).

We have this elegant mathematical machine that lets us make predictions about that sort of decay, and it's called the Standard Model. It works really really well. We can do millions of collisions and see the same patterns emerging.

The Standard Model also predicts the Higgs Boson. And just like how the Standard Model predicts smashing together electrons will create one kind of pattern, it also predicts that smashing together large hadrons (basically, large atomic nuclei), in addition to all the other things we produce, we'll be releasing the Higgs boson, and that boson is going to decay into a few different possible patterns.

The challenge, then, is to filter out all the noise from all the other particle decays that are going on when we have a big collision, and home in on that tiny Higgs signal (which isn't even going to look exactly the same each time we smash things together).

At its core, though, this is how the leading edge of science always works. We start with observations, and then we build mathematical models to describe them. Then we make more observations and confirm that the mathematical model fits those observations. We tweak variables and we push the edges of the model. And then, and this is the important part, we look at that model, and try and predict something that nobody's ever seen before. Then we try and make that thing happen and see if the model holds up.

The Standard Model predicts nearly everything we observe in particle physics. It also predicts the Higgs boson, which is something we've never seen before. So now we're trying to create the conditions required to observe the Higgs and if we can find it, then we have shown that the Standard Model is not only good at predicting things we already knew, but can actually make meaningful predictions about things we're not sure of yet.
 
2012-06-20 02:02:27 PM
From the perspective of the Higgs boson all of these discoveries happened simultaneously
 
2012-06-20 02:09:41 PM
i43.photobucket.com

Yo-way-yo

/ webcams here
 
2012-06-20 02:18:24 PM

Mista Sparkle: Nonsense, I found the Higgs Bison at Fermilab today on lunch!

[farm6.staticflickr.com image 333x500]
I Found The Higgs Bison! by Mista Sparkle, on Flickr


I used to live near there. Driving through Fermilab was a blast. Strange looking buildings, strange animals.
 
2012-06-20 02:20:40 PM
 
2012-06-20 02:26:16 PM
I was just watching some of the wormhole shows about this. This is truly a momentous occasion if it at least proves statistically sound. I really thought for a while this one might allude us but perhaps this is it.
 
2012-06-20 02:37:08 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-06-20 03:00:50 PM

t3knomanser: we'll be releasing the Higgs boson, and that boson is going to decay into a few different possible patterns.


And nothing else will produce those patterns. It is the decay patterns that are being measured, not the Higgs. The Higgs itself decays so fast that it doesn't survive long enough to get out to any of the detectors.
 
2012-06-20 03:03:16 PM
I might add, as someone who originally studied physics at the time the Standard model was formalized, this is great news. It's the last big piece of the puzzle.
 
2012-06-20 03:03:16 PM

Sliding Carp: [i43.photobucket.com image 400x250]

Yo-way-yo

/ webcams here


You do realize when you hear that song, some serious shizznit is about to come down?
 
2012-06-20 03:11:28 PM
Last post!
 
2012-06-20 03:15:17 PM
What does Anne Frank have to do with this?
 
2012-06-20 03:25:42 PM
I don't really understand the significance of this discovery. So, it's the last part of the Standard Model that hasn't been found. What happens once it is found? Are we going to be able to invent teleporters or shrink rays or something cool with this knowledge?

I vaguely remember something about it simulating the big bang.
 
2012-06-20 03:31:01 PM
i found the Hoggs Bison,
it's your mom.!!
 
2012-06-20 03:50:10 PM
This is not a repeat from the 3 other times rumors were circulating that they found it.
 
2012-06-20 04:19:42 PM

Bleyo: I don't really understand the significance of this discovery. So, it's the last part of the Standard Model that hasn't been found. What happens once it is found? Are we going to be able to invent teleporters or shrink rays or something cool with this knowledge?

I vaguely remember something about it simulating the big bang.


Oh, there's nothing practical here.
 
2012-06-20 04:32:54 PM

Optimal_Illusion: Sliding Carp: [i43.photobucket.com image 400x250]

Yo-way-yo

/ webcams here

You do realize when you hear that song, some serious shizznit is about to come down?


Seriouser than the Earth being shrunk to the size of a pea?
Jeez, I hope I can catch a ride.

www.sadgeezer.com

oh crap.
 
2012-06-20 05:51:07 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: SERN?

[coldlink.files.wordpress.com image 640x360]


Came for the gel-bana

/then came back for the gel-bana a couple hours earlier
 
2012-06-20 05:56:09 PM
I submitted this with a better headline tomorrow.
 
2012-06-20 06:34:30 PM

Bleyo: What happens once it is found?


We know more about the universe. Pure research antedates practical applications by years, decades, heck- sometimes even centuries. The most important fact, right now, is that the boundaries of human knowledge have been pushed back a bit. We can speak more intelligently, more accurately, and more eloquently about the world that surrounds us.
 
2012-06-20 07:46:41 PM

t3knomanser: Bleyo: What happens once it is found?

We know more about the universe. Pure research antedates practical applications by years, decades, heck- sometimes even centuries. The most important fact, right now, is that the boundaries of human knowledge have been pushed back a bit. We can speak more intelligently, more accurately, and more eloquently about the world that surrounds us.


"accurately" for sure. "eloquently" I doubt - I've seen too many talks and reviewed too many dry papers to ever imagine the word "eloquent".

but the best answer to this question is rather old.... A rather "lowly" lab tech (according to his lettered peers) nailed it. Our lowly lab tech was asked what is the practical use of these measurements to one's everyday life ?

His response - "What is the practical use of a newborn baby?"

There is none! But what there is, in spades, is potential. Can you dig it?

BTW our lowly lab tech was named Michael Faraday and he said this in 1816. Short-sightedness regarding the eventual practical uses of new physical results is thus most certainly not a new thing.

Benjamin Franklin made pretty much same comment when attending the first manned balloon flight in Paris in 1783 when he was asked about the practical use of this flying nonsense.

cheers
 
2012-06-20 08:04:51 PM
Until I open the article, they have simultaneously both found and not found it.
 
2012-06-20 09:05:14 PM
I suspect the Standard Model will give way to something else with discovery of other fundamental particles ...
 
2012-06-20 09:37:43 PM
Awesome headline, Subby. :)
 
2012-06-20 10:43:47 PM

Ponzholio: I submitted this with a better headline tomorrow.


I submit this at every possible point of every possible timeframe, with an arbitrarily superior modifier.

Maybe.
 
2012-06-20 11:14:10 PM
Possibly NSFW

No, I found the Higgs bosom.
I have the most accelerated particle right now.

img004.lazygirls.info
/Penny Higgs
 
2012-06-20 11:45:14 PM
Only 3 sigmas of God? No lets wait for 5.
 
2012-06-21 10:42:42 AM
So what is the benefit to finding the particle?

/No Snark
//Genuinely interested for what it is supposed to lead to
 
2012-06-21 05:22:57 PM

beelzebubba76: I suspect the Standard Model will give way to something else with discovery of other fundamental particles ...


There's not much room for new particles really (*) - as every conceivable combination of quarks is a particle that's been detected. Of course, there could be some quark combinations in exotic spin-parity configurations that that are rare or short-lived enough to have eluded detection. For those, it's likely that the SM can accommodate them just fine.

An example of a particle that might break the SM is pretty easy to imagine.
If "Dark Matter" is a particle, I don't think it's going to fit into the SM as is. cheers
 
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