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(CNN)   States have made the prudent choices, raising progressive taxes and upping their contributions, to fill in the pension gap. Just kidding. They're apparently betting on no one getting old   (money.cnn.com) divider line 106
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2349 clicks; posted to Business » on 20 Jun 2012 at 1:45 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-20 10:21:25 AM
The problem is that it's a legal contract. Even though it was signed by politicians who didn't give a sh*t because they either thought their brokers really could get them 7% returns, or that they would be out of office and living in Florida when the problems hit.

I'd like to see them break the contracts under some kind of gross negligence finding. Or, they will have to raise taxes and tell the voters why they are raising taxes... specifically to fund stuff that should have been funded over the last 30 years.

It looks like going forward, the contracts don't allow for such things as generous colas and health benies. So, as per usual, we've had to learn from mistakes, but that doesn't help us with the current problem.

One thing going in favor of breaking the contracts is how the federal government was able to smash the bond agreements of Chrysler bondholders who did not agree to the bankruptcy provisions. That was the first case, that I know of, where a judge agreed to basically void a legal contract for the best interests of others.

It's a dangerous precedent because you then start to call into question all legal contracts. That was the fear at the time, but I haven't seen any rush to use that decision by anyone else. It's either we get them to lower their COLAs voluntarily and get them onto medicare, or we raise taxes.

Providence, R.I. is asking their retirees to vote on doing just that... Nearly 300 attend Providence retirees meeting, begin voting on cost-of-living proposal

This is something we better deal with or tax increases solely to fix this issue will happen no matter what anyone wants. Personally, I want a tax increase to pay for some of the f*cked up roads and bridges in my state. I'd rather we deal with these pension issues through getting clawbacks from the retirees. Not a popular position, but these contracts were bad faith math failures on the side of those who signed off on them and I'll be goddamned if I want to see a net tax increase with nothing to show for it. Perhaps if we used means testing to roll back those who get a certain dollar amount? If a person is getting a very small retirement package then leave them be and focus on those getting large amounts. Probably can't, but I'm just throwing ideas out there.
 
2012-06-20 10:23:16 AM
But don't worry, the Federals will do it right with Health Care. No way they will mismanage the money for that.
 
2012-06-20 10:33:55 AM

SlothB77: But don't worry, the Federals will do it right with Health Care. No way they will mismanage the money for that.


When you break it down this is just an argument against having a government at all.

Anarchy in the USA.
 
2012-06-20 11:58:38 AM
so basically...if a plague were to hit that wiped out around...hmm....80% of the people in this country over the age of 60....the ENTIRE country would be saved from fiscal collapse?
 
2012-06-20 11:58:43 AM
The derp blaming workers for this is going to be strong, despite the article saying:

"Policymakers made only 78% of the recommended contribution toward their state pension plans. And while states don't have to prefund retiree health benefits, actuaries recommend that they do. Still, states only set aside 34% of the suggested contribution to these accounts."


I just retired after 30 years from a state job in Delaware. Delaware's pension plan is 97% funded. The state contributed their portion over the years and it's fine. I took that job 30 years ago because of the pension and stayed there and didn't get a higher paying job in the private sector because of it. I had a deal with my employer, I fulfilled my part of the bargain, don't screw me when it comes time for me to collect.

So basically in other states the lawmakers played games with the money, spent it elsewhere, short changed their plans, and now it's the workers who are being blamed by everyone.
 
2012-06-20 12:04:28 PM
It's part of a two pronged plan.

Thanks to climate change, there are an increasing number of ice floes.
 
2012-06-20 12:09:25 PM

weave:
So basically in other states the lawmakers played games with the money, spent it elsewhere, short changed their plans, and now it's the workers who are being blamed by everyone.


yup! OMG SOCALISMS UNIONS!

obviously, the solution is more tax cuts for the rich.
 
2012-06-20 12:23:32 PM

James!: SlothB77: But don't worry, the Federals will do it right with Health Care. No way they will mismanage the money for that.

When you break it down this is just an argument against having a government at all.

Anarchy in the USA.


Except when a teabagger's house burns down, then the fire department better be on time or there will be hell to pay.
 
2012-06-20 12:26:09 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: James!: SlothB77: But don't worry, the Federals will do it right with Health Care. No way they will mismanage the money for that.

When you break it down this is just an argument against having a government at all.

Anarchy in the USA.

Except when a teabagger's house burns down, then the fire department better be on time or there will be hell to pay.


Why come you think they ain't gonna mismanage the money for that fire department? HUH! WHY COME NOT THAT!?
 
2012-06-20 01:04:41 PM
Newportbarguy,
So the retiree- who more than likely will not get social security, has to suffer because their boss mismanaged funds?

Seriously: why should public sector workers be given the shaft?
 
2012-06-20 01:13:45 PM

Darth_Lukecash: So the retiree- who more than likely will not get social security, has to suffer because their boss mismanaged funds?


Absolutely. It's their fault for not being able to accurately predict the future.

weave: I just retired after 30 years from a state job in Delaware. Delaware's pension plan is 97% funded. The state contributed their portion over the years and it's fine. I took that job 30 years ago because of the pension and stayed there and didn't get a higher paying job in the private sector because of it. I had a deal with my employer, I fulfilled my part of the bargain, don't screw me when it comes time for me to collect.


Lol. So you no longer contribute anything, but you still suck on state resources? Go back to work, commie. Cry me a river, if some of us are suffering through B. Hussein Obama's failed economy, you should have to as well.

/I don't believe any of that.
 
2012-06-20 01:34:01 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Newportbarguy,
So the retiree- who more than likely will not get social security, has to suffer because their boss mismanaged funds?

Seriously: why should public sector workers be given the shaft?


Because the government lied to them and didn't allocate enough funds to cover their costs.

More than likely not get SS? Well, that's not the majority. It is to some who did not pay into SS and that should be looked at. If they do not get SS, they should absolutely at least get benefits commensurate with SS.

They got f*cked over. It's obvious. If they can find a way to make it work by reducing COLAs, eliminating them for a time, lowering payout for a time... finding some way to stretch the money, add some more from current workers, they might be able to find a way through.

This is not an absolute. They get all or nothing proposition. I'm talking about us finding ways to meet payments from the available pool and perhaps even a modest tax somewhere to offset costs. Something that might get voter appeal is to increase the amount taken by current workers in the same pension plans to help defray current costs which are rising.

I very much want to find a solution and am open to any way that fixes it without passing the entire cost burden into a new tax without trying to find ways to reduce some costs by looking at payouts and comparing those who also get SS to those who can't get SS. We can figure it out, but I'm pretty sure we won't and it'll just be the all or nothing debates that always happen with these issues.
 
2012-06-20 01:59:24 PM
Pensions for the masses is a failed experiment of the mid twentieth century, and it's well past time we recognized that. Counting on a business or (worse yet) politicians to plan decades into the future for your retirement is madness. Why would a politician make the hard choice to raise taxes and put money away when the chickens won't come home to roost until decades after they're out of office?

/light 'em up
 
2012-06-20 02:01:24 PM
It's not so much that states are betting on no one getting old, but they are hoping that they die quickly after retiring.
 
2012-06-20 02:01:42 PM
When I left the US I feared I was committing financial suicide....
Then I read stuff like this, it makes me feel pretty good.

Less income tax
No property tax
Free university education
I don't pay for my health insurance
15% of my salary is matched into a pension fund
 
2012-06-20 02:06:49 PM

Arkanaut: It's not so much that states are betting on no one getting old, but they are hoping that they die quickly after retiring.


Remember people, smoking is cool.
 
2012-06-20 02:16:41 PM

Fish in a Barrel: Pensions for the masses is a failed experiment of the mid twentieth century, and it's well past time we recognized that. Counting on a business or (worse yet) politicians to plan decades into the future for your retirement is madness. Why would a politician make the hard choice to raise taxes and put money away when the chickens won't come home to roost until decades after they're out of office?

/light 'em up


That's not the point. As a citizen in a Democracy, you have an obligation to make good on the lying politicians' promises. A moral obligation. If it means that you can't retire yourself because your tax rates are too high for you to save money, that's too bad. You owe the money to the retiring bureaucrats.

/Unless you're from Wales. Then you are allowed to welsh on your promises.
 
2012-06-20 02:22:33 PM
Obama's Death Panels ought to solve this problem right quick.
 
2012-06-20 02:28:22 PM

Bitterrooter: Arkanaut: It's not so much that states are betting on no one getting old, but they are hoping that they die quickly after retiring.

Remember people, smoking is cool.


And smoking helps fill up the state coffers faster too. Killing two birds with one stone! Three birds, if you count the smoker.
 
2012-06-20 02:41:38 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: When I left the US I feared I was committing financial suicide....
Then I read stuff like this, it makes me feel pretty good.

Less income tax
No property tax
Free university education
I don't pay for my health insurance
15% of my salary is matched into a pension fund


Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
 
2012-06-20 02:42:39 PM

NewportBarGuy: That was the first case, that I know of, where a judge agreed to basically void a legal contract for the best interests of others.


It is far from uncommon. And let's not forget that bankruptcy courts are courts of equity (in the US at least).
 
2012-06-20 02:47:04 PM
Somewhere in the past someone said "let's promise the blue collar employees we'll keep paying them after they retire. That'll get the suckers to keep working and we'll all be gone before that rips up the company/government"

Pensions were always a bad idea. But I think the difference in pay to make a validly equal defined contribution plan would have been in the 10-12% range, so they saved that from what labor costs would have been. I just think about my uncle that retired from a GM plant at 45, almost 20 years ago. The only positive thing I can think of with pensions for 45 year olds is that it lets them pursue lower paying second careers.
 
2012-06-20 02:58:02 PM
There is no more disgusting example of "fark you, I've got mine" than when it comes to public union members and their absurd pensions signed by politicians desperate for support..

And yes, tax the rich as well. Eat a dick, public union members.
 
2012-06-20 03:07:13 PM
Actually they're betting that the whole financial situation wont blow up until after they're out of office.

//politician only have one concern, getting re-elected.
 
2012-06-20 03:14:06 PM

Bitterrooter: Arkanaut: It's not so much that states are betting on no one getting old, but they are hoping that they die quickly after retiring.

Remember people, smoking is cool.


Medicare Part E -- free cigs and oxycontin for everyone over 65! We are going to make them drive themselves to pick up their monthly freebies though... and the office will be at the intersection of 6 one-way streets.
 
2012-06-20 03:14:30 PM

Weaver95: so basically...if a plague were to hit that wiped out around...hmm....80% of the people in this country over the age of 60....the ENTIRE country would be saved from fiscal collapse?


That's why they are pushing "flu" shots on people.

You know, to help them...
 
2012-06-20 03:18:50 PM
This just shows why we need to work harder on building the robots.
 
2012-06-20 03:25:05 PM
When will all of you idealists crack open an economics book once in a while? The exact thing we're talking about has been predicted by economists for decades, but soft conservatives and virtually all liberals have been kicking the can down the road my whole life.

The baby boom kids have always been known to be the driving force for America's behavior, since there are so many of them, and the needs for their retirements have been known since WWII if anyone wanted to stop and think.

It really is time to trim spending. I guess a guy like evul Scott Walker is looking pretty good right now, eh? At least Wisconsin isn't Illinois and has virtually all of its obligations met. And is in the process of filling the gap left by idiot Doyle (previous scumbag gov. for you non-locals).
 
2012-06-20 03:26:36 PM

Great Odins Raven: There is no more disgusting example of "fark you, I've got mine" than when it comes to public union members and their absurd pensions signed by politicians desperate for support..

And yes, tax the rich as well. Eat a dick, public union members.


So blame the politicians. A union can't sign a bill into law, nor does their vote in support of a contract matter any more than my 2-week-old nephew's.

A "politician" (a legislator or executive is my assumption) absolutely has the power to do one or both of those things. They also, FWIW, have the power to raise taxes.

Politicians are free to tell public unions to shove their contracts up their asses, just as people are free to petition their government for a redress of grievances. You don't lose that right simply because you work for the government - I'd actually argue that you're in a far better place to HAVE grievances that need redress by the government in the first place.
 
2012-06-20 03:26:42 PM

84Charlie: Fark_Guy_Rob: When I left the US I feared I was committing financial suicide....
Then I read stuff like this, it makes me feel pretty good.

Less income tax
No property tax
Free university education
I don't pay for my health insurance
15% of my salary is matched into a pension fund

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.


I didn't mean it to sound like I was congratulating myself; it was more of a 'What the hell, United States?!'

It's not all rainbows and sunshine in Europe - but yeah - I can't help but feel like the US is going to hell in a handbasket. I'll stay here long enough to become a citizen and then return to the US but it'll only be because my friends and family are there; not because I think I'll have a better life there. To me, that's really depressing.

True story - I was complaining to my coworkers how I can't find a decent apartment in my price range. They all thought I was being extremely cheap. 'Surely you can afford more than that'. They had no idea I was paying out of pocket for my education costs (I'm currently doing a Masters degree at US school - at > $3,000 per class, taking three classes per year) and my wife is attending veterinary school (which means students loans in the ~200,000 dollar range, at 6.8% interest or whatever the hell it is these days).

Americans are lead to believe that folks in Europe...sure, they get some benefits - but they pay SO MUCH in taxes. The average American would pay less in income related taxes living in Ireland than they would living in the United States. Upper-middle class and rich people; they'd pay more here. Based on the Median household income, the majority of Americans would actually pay less in taxes here. I couldn't believe it. Hell, I plotted it in Excel because I couldn't believe it.
 
2012-06-20 03:28:35 PM
(They didn't understand it; because here - it would all be free)
 
2012-06-20 03:28:54 PM

Weaver95: so basically...if a plague were to hit that wiped out around...hmm....80% of the people in this country over the age of 60....the ENTIRE country would be saved from fiscal collapse?


www.stomptokyo.com
Plagues are messy... we have a solution that will save state budgets and bring grocery prices down!
 
2012-06-20 03:33:11 PM

rumpelstiltskin: That's not the point. As a citizen in a Democracy, you have an obligation to make good on the lying politicians' promises. A moral obligation. If it means that you can't retire yourself because your tax rates are too high for you to save money, that's too bad. You owe the money to the retiring bureaucrats.


One thing that I learned in the housing fiasco is that you have no moral obligation to meet my contractual obligation. Ooops looks like I did not plan correctly, I should walk away.

Woooot, my state is 1st. Lowest number is good right?
 
2012-06-20 03:44:02 PM

Saiga410: rumpelstiltskin: That's not the point. As a citizen in a Democracy, you have an obligation to make good on the lying politicians' promises. A moral obligation. If it means that you can't retire yourself because your tax rates are too high for you to save money, that's too bad. You owe the money to the retiring bureaucrats.

One thing that I learned in the housing fiasco is that you have no moral obligation to meet my contractual obligation. Ooops looks like I did not plan correctly, I should walk away.

Woooot, my state is 1st. Lowest number is good right?


I guess it's just a matter of perspective. I don't know what your mortgage says; but I haven't seen one that says, 'I promise I will do my best to repay this loan'.

For example - if you go to a Pawn Shop and give them an item in exchange for a loan - the agreement is EITHER you will repay the loan + interest before some date *OR* they will keep the item. It's exactly the same as a stock option. You have the right to exercise it or not. There is no morally correct option. They are both morally neutral.

I signed a lease with my landlord. I've agree that, if I move out early and 'break' the lease - he will keep my deposit. That's it. We've agreed to those terms. It's not 'wrong' to break my lease. It just has an associated cost with it.

I'm pretty sure my mortgage was the same. The bank agreed to give me a secured loan with which to purchase a house. They aren't some good natured friend I'm borrowing money from; they are a giant corporation trying to maximize their profit. And so am I.

It's not immoral to decide to repay your mortgage early, is it? It 'cheats' the bank out of interest.
It's not immoral to refinance (which is really the same thing).
It's not even immoral to stop paying. There are consequences - but the act is morally neutral.

My failure to pay only gives the bank the option to exercise certain clauses in the contract; namely to seize/take ownership of the house. That act, too, is morally neutral. The bank will do it if they feel it is in their best interest. Or they'll explore other options like a short sale or whatever else they want to do. It's their choice.
 
2012-06-20 03:54:09 PM

Weaver95: so basically...if a plague were to hit that wiped out around...hmm....80% of the people in this country over the age of 60....the ENTIRE country would be saved from fiscal collapse?


Finally a plan I can get behind! What I really like about it is it also solves high unemployment among the young, preserves medicare and social security for me and my children and makes it the last time I need to see a program on how awesome baby boomers are.
 
2012-06-20 03:56:01 PM

Saiga410: rumpelstiltskin: That's not the point. As a citizen in a Democracy, you have an obligation to make good on the lying politicians' promises. A moral obligation. If it means that you can't retire yourself because your tax rates are too high for you to save money, that's too bad. You owe the money to the retiring bureaucrats.

One thing that I learned in the housing fiasco is that you have no moral obligation to meet my contractual obligation. Ooops looks like I did not plan correctly, I should walk away.

Woooot, my state is 1st. Lowest number is good right?


I think you'd have to be pretty unsophisticated (or very young) if you only learned that in the last couple of years. I'm not sure why/how banks tried to create equate contractual obligations with moral obligations.

Contracts are amoral, they don't have secret morality covenants. Just as businesses walk away from loans every single day or your credit card changes your terms of service every few months, people should look at every option available to them w/r/t the contracts in which they are a party.
 
2012-06-20 03:57:38 PM

Moopy Mac: Saiga410: rumpelstiltskin: That's not the point. As a citizen in a Democracy, you have an obligation to make good on the lying politicians' promises. A moral obligation. If it means that you can't retire yourself because your tax rates are too high for you to save money, that's too bad. You owe the money to the retiring bureaucrats.

One thing that I learned in the housing fiasco is that you have no moral obligation to meet my contractual obligation. Ooops looks like I did not plan correctly, I should walk away.

Woooot, my state is 1st. Lowest number is good right?

I think you'd have to be pretty unsophisticated (or very young) if you only learned that in the last couple of years. I'm not sure why/how banks tried to create equate contractual obligations with moral obligations (but we know why).

Contracts are amoral, they don't have secret morality covenants. Just as businesses walk away from loans every single day or your credit card changes your terms of service every few months, people should look at every option available to them w/r/t the contracts in which they are a party.


FTFM
 
2012-06-20 04:11:41 PM

lockers: Weaver95: so basically...if a plague were to hit that wiped out around...hmm....80% of the people in this country over the age of 60....the ENTIRE country would be saved from fiscal collapse?

Finally a plan I can get behind! What I really like about it is it also solves high unemployment among the young, preserves medicare and social security for me and my children and makes it the last time I need to see a program on how awesome baby boomers are.


How about a new Spanish influenza? That affected young adults much more than other age groups.

Their unemployment problem would be fixed because they'd be dead, plus everyone else wouldnt have to listen to their whining anymore. It's win win!
 
2012-06-20 04:15:49 PM

Dr Dreidel: Great Odins Raven: There is no more disgusting example of "fark you, I've got mine" than when it comes to public union members and their absurd pensions signed by politicians desperate for support..

And yes, tax the rich as well. Eat a dick, public union members.

So blame the politicians. A union can't sign a bill into law, nor does their vote in support of a contract matter any more than my 2-week-old nephew's.

A "politician" (a legislator or executive is my assumption) absolutely has the power to do one or both of those things. They also, FWIW, have the power to raise taxes.

Politicians are free to tell public unions to shove their contracts up their asses, just as people are free to petition their government for a redress of grievances. You don't lose that right simply because you work for the government - I'd actually argue that you're in a far better place to HAVE grievances that need redress by the government in the first place.


So vote Scott Walker because he's willing to tell unions to shove things up their asses? Is that what you're saying?
 
2012-06-20 04:18:00 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: 84Charlie: Fark_Guy_Rob: When I left the US I feared I was committing financial suicide....
Then I read stuff like this, it makes me feel pretty good.

Less income tax
No property tax
Free university education
I don't pay for my health insurance
15% of my salary is matched into a pension fund

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

I didn't mean it to sound like I was congratulating myself; it was more of a 'What the hell, United States?!'

It's not all rainbows and sunshine in Europe - but yeah - I can't help but feel like the US is going to hell in a handbasket. I'll stay here long enough to become a citizen and then return to the US but it'll only be because my friends and family are there; not because I think I'll have a better life there. To me, that's really depressing.

True story - I was complaining to my coworkers how I can't find a decent apartment in my price range. They all thought I was being extremely cheap. 'Surely you can afford more than that'. They had no idea I was paying out of pocket for my education costs (I'm currently doing a Masters degree at US school - at > $3,000 per class, taking three classes per year) and my wife is attending veterinary school (which means students loans in the ~200,000 dollar range, at 6.8% interest or whatever the hell it is these days).

Americans are lead to believe that folks in Europe...sure, they get some benefits - but they pay SO MUCH in taxes. The average American would pay less in income related taxes living in Ireland than they would living in the United States. Upper-middle class and rich people; they'd pay more here. Based on the Median household income, the majority of Americans would actually pay less in taxes here. I couldn't believe it. Hell, I plotted it in Excel because I couldn't believe it.


You say income related taxes. Don't you have like a 17% VAT there?
 
2012-06-20 04:34:33 PM
The easy solution is to force states to set aside the money today to fully fund pensions.

Forcing our children to pay for this is cowardly.
 
2012-06-20 04:39:25 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Dr Dreidel: Great Odins Raven: There is no more disgusting example of "fark you, I've got mine" than when it comes to public union members and their absurd pensions signed by politicians desperate for support..

And yes, tax the rich as well. Eat a dick, public union members.

So blame the politicians. A union can't sign a bill into law, nor does their vote in support of a contract matter any more than my 2-week-old nephew's.

A "politician" (a legislator or executive is my assumption) absolutely has the power to do one or both of those things. They also, FWIW, have the power to raise taxes.

Politicians are free to tell public unions to shove their contracts up their asses, just as people are free to petition their government for a redress of grievances. You don't lose that right simply because you work for the government - I'd actually argue that you're in a far better place to HAVE grievances that need redress by the government in the first place.

So vote Scott Walker because he's willing to tell unions to shove things up their asses? Is that what you're saying?


Vote Scott Walker if you, too, wish to curtail the rights of people to associate and petition their government for a redress of grievances just because their employer happens to be the State of Wisconsin.

I would like for The People to retain those rights, so I would not vote for him or any of the other union-busters. I also happen to think such efforts (to curtail public unions' rights or abilities) is best handled at the bargaining table and not by legislation. If they think the unions' deals are too good for the unions, either renegotiate them or don't renew them.

// but I remember Dale
// Walkers got him, and now things have all gone to hell
 
2012-06-20 04:50:26 PM

mcreadyblue: The easy solution is to force states to set aside the money today to fully fund pensions.

Forcing our children to pay for this is cowardly.


"easy solution"? Is this some kind of sick joke? Yes, I agree that we shouldn't foist this problem onto the backs of our children, but forcing states to fully fund their pensions would be nowhere near "easy".
 
2012-06-20 05:03:06 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: When I left the US I feared I was committing financial suicide....
Then I read stuff like this, it makes me feel pretty good.

Less income tax
No property tax
Free university education
I don't pay for my health insurance
15% of my salary is matched into a pension fund


Median household income is 20% lower in Ireland (where I gather you are at), given that property taxes, education spending and health insurance are less than 20% of typical family spending then most people are still better off in the US.
 
2012-06-20 05:13:57 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: So vote Scott Walker because he's willing to tell unions to shove things up their asses? Is that what you're saying?


Scott Walker also managed to convince the plebes that there is some huge, unfunded pension obligation with the WI public workforce. WI uses a deferred compensation plan. But it doesn't matter if there is no pension obligation; you can just raise the specter of one and get the private sector working-class mad enough to vote against itself.

That, and $30M in your pocket the moment you pick up a phone and call your out-of-state billionaire backers, and you can be governor of WI.
 
2012-06-20 06:08:47 PM
No, they are betting that no one will retire and all the State Employees dependent on their Health Benefits will work straight until they die at their desk. State Gov. are already top heavy with aged staff unwilling to retire due to the their difficulty getting that sweet part time retirement job they always dreamed of.
 
2012-06-20 06:14:13 PM
As a pension professional, I'm getting a kick...

Funding a Defined Benefit plan is a moving target. Yeah, it looks like the politicians have really been failing (and in several states they really have). But some aspects are totally out of the control of the administrator, such as growth or shrinkage of the employee base and investment return. It is always a guess and in the last few years most of the guesses have come up short of the mark.
 
2012-06-20 06:16:08 PM
meh, gonna troll

T-Servo: Weaver95: so basically...if a plague were to hit that wiped out around...hmm....80% of the people in this country over the age of 60....the ENTIRE country would be saved from fiscal collapse?

stomptokyo.com
Plagues are messy... we have a solution that will save state budgets and bring grocery prices down!


punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com???
 
2012-06-20 06:27:51 PM

You're the jerk... jerk: Fark_Guy_Rob: When I left the US I feared I was committing financial suicide....
Then I read stuff like this, it makes me feel pretty good.

Less income tax
No property tax
Free university education
I don't pay for my health insurance
15% of my salary is matched into a pension fund

Median household income is 20% lower in Ireland (where I gather you are at), given that property taxes, education spending and health insurance are less than 20% of typical family spending then most people are still better off in the US.


Ireland just instituted property taxes. Next year it will be based on the value of the property.

/banksters gotta be paid.
 
2012-06-20 06:32:09 PM

Atomic Spunk: mcreadyblue: The easy solution is to force states to set aside the money today to fully fund pensions.

Forcing our children to pay for this is cowardly.

"easy solution"? Is this some kind of sick joke? Yes, I agree that we shouldn't foist this problem onto the backs of our children, but forcing states to fully fund their pensions would be nowhere near "easy".


Companies are forced to do it. Why can't state governments do it?

What's so hard about it?
 
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