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(Bloomberg)   Mitt Romney is asking Americans if they were better off four years ago as he stumps around the country. Guess he should have done a poll or something first   (bloomberg.com) divider line 38
    More: Interesting, obama, Americans, Standard and Poor, Traverse City, tree stumps, berg National Poll, defamation  
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3877 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Jun 2012 at 10:42 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-06-20 10:21:54 AM  
30 votes:
i'm certainly better off than i was 4 years ago.

listen, folks, the world lost nearly half its wealth in the economic cataclysm that happened at the end of bush's second term. it was the single worst economic event since the crash of 1929. in the four years since obama took over, the stock market has doubled, the recession has ended, unemployment has gone down (not by as much as we'd like, obviously), and GDP has increased. all of this while republicans were fighting him at every single turn.

this is a big deal. and it's going to take more than 4 years to fix - especially when you're facing the worst enemy this nation's economy has ever met: the modern republican party.

so, yeah, though far from perfect, obama has my vote. and if you think that romney and his team of bush economists can do better, you're fooling yourself. or you're a retired billionaire hedge fund manager.
2012-06-20 10:26:08 AM  
5 votes:

FlashHarry: i'm certainly better off than i was 4 years ago.

listen, folks, the world lost nearly half its wealth in the economic cataclysm that happened at the end of bush's second term. it was the single worst economic event since the crash of 1929. in the four years since obama took over, the stock market has doubled, the recession has ended, unemployment has gone down (not by as much as we'd like, obviously), and GDP has increased. all of this while republicans were fighting him at every single turn.

this is a big deal. and it's going to take more than 4 years to fix - especially when you're facing the worst enemy this nation's economy has ever met: the modern republican party.

so, yeah, though far from perfect, obama has my vote. and if you think that romney and his team of bush economists can do better, you're fooling yourself. or you're a retired billionaire hedge fund manager.


^THIS^

/I'm better off financially than four years ago myself as well.
2012-06-20 11:01:39 AM  
4 votes:
I'm guessing "regulations" is shorthand for "they make me pay taxes and unemployment insurance and workman's comp and force me to put a safety bar on the SkullMangler 600XL when I'm a self-made small businesshero who never got a thing except the factory I inherited from my Dad and the infrastructure that the state built to this industrial park and the tax credits I get every year."
2012-06-20 11:01:35 AM  
3 votes:
Four years ago my family's business's sales fell off a cliff and we made zero profit for the year. Zero profit. Four years ago we watched as the money my parents had set aside for their retirement vanished over night. Four years ago I gave up my apartment and moved into a house with roommates so that I could afford to take a 25% pay cut.

Today our business is running in the black and we've retired 90% of the debt we took on in 2008 to keep our doors open. Today my parents have watched their stock portfolio rebound to 75% of its original value, while their home has returned to 90% of its pre-crash value. Today I own my home, having been able to take advantage of the real estate crash to finally become a home-owner.

So...yeah, Mitt. Doing much better. It ain't exactly the Clinton boom years when we we're rolling in money, but things have improved greatly and the arc is trending ever upwards.
2012-06-20 10:58:52 AM  
3 votes:
I am certainly better off then I was four years ago. I am 27 and have been under or unemployed for most of my adult life. Last year I got the first full time job I have ever had and was recently promoted to team leader with seven people working under me. I have paid off all of my credit cards and started a savings account. I have been able to consolidate my student loans into one monthly payment through a program started by Obama and they will all be paid off in 9 years. In two years if things keep going the way they are I will have enough to put a down payment on a 150,000 $ house.

So yeah, I'm the youth vote and I will be voting for Obama.
2012-06-20 10:35:36 AM  
3 votes:
Robert Kagan is advising Mitt Romney on foreign affairs. The Zakheim(s), Eric Edelman and Eliot Cohen among others for the more well read.

This should be bigger news. Though, the TV news has always been terrible about explaining the neoconservative movement in any actual detail.

Terrible, and the US public, collectively, loathes the movement.

TV media people, what the fark is wrong with you. Cover this.
2012-06-20 10:27:14 AM  
3 votes:

I_Am_Weasel: Did he cite the excessive regulation?


Still, though, I think there is probably only a small percentage that would want to be polled by Romney, including the dressage horses.


I posted this on another thread somewhere. I was just recently visiting family in the deep South Bible Belt. While driving through the neighborhood, we noticed a house that had burned down. We commented on how the burned out structure hadn't yet been torn down or rebuilt. My father-in-law said it was because of "government regulation."
Wait, what?
That's right, they couldn't tear down a burned out house because of government regulations.
Well, that didn't seem right to me, so I asked "which regulations?"
Turns out, the folks who lived in the house had likely torched it for the insurance money. So the house couldn't be torn down until the fire department and police finished their arson investigation.
So, "government regulations" = "active crime scene."
2012-06-20 10:27:09 AM  
3 votes:
Which of Obama's regulations are stifling the box making industry? I'm genuinely curious.
2012-06-20 11:32:47 AM  
2 votes:

downstairs: jst3p: downstairs: I'm not. Most Americans are not. Still not voting for ya, Mitt.

Citation needed.

Link (Unemployment is way up)

Link (median household income, everything is either negative or just a tiny growth)

Link (a stagnant DJIA)

What other metrics do you want?

Again... I don't blame Obama. But my point stands.


The data below shows why most people should be better off... not worst off since about 4 years ago...

GDP performance during the Obama Administration has gone into positive growth.
thecentristword.files.wordpress.com

US stock markets performance during the Obama Administration...
DOW in 01/20/2009: 7,949.09
DOW in 06/19/2012: 12,837.33
Rate of Return: 61.49%

S&P 500 in 01/20/2009: 805.22
S&P 500 in 06/19/2012: 1,357.98
Rate of Return: 68.65%

NASDAQ in 01/20/2009: 1,440.86
NASDAQ in 06/19/2012: 2,929.76
Rate of Return: 103.33%


Private jobs hemorrhage slowed down during the Obama Administration and eventually went into positive territory.
farm6.staticflickr.com

Comparing unemployment rate fluctuation between President Bush and President Obama.

Bush
1/20/2001: 4.2%
1/20/2009: 7.7%
Unemployment Rate Change: 83.33% increase

Obama
1/20/2009: 7.7%
Currently: 8.2%
Unemployment Rate Change: 6.49% increase

Unemployment rate has been trending down now during the Obama Administration.

During the Obama Administration...
i2.cdn.turner.com

Read all about it...

Private-sector job growth biggest in 3 years (new window)

Stealth signs of a stronger job market (new window)

Biggest unemployment rate improvement in nearly 28 years (new window)

Small businesses ramp up jobs (new window)

Jobs: 2 hopeful signs (new window)

The unemployment rate fell to 8.3%. That is the lowest since February 2009 (new window)

Stealth jobs boom: 6 months, 2 million jobs (new window)

Jobless claims plunged last week to a nearly four-year low (new window)

If you are unemployed or underemployed, you don't have a 4 year degree (or higher) and blame Obama for your situation, then maybe you should get a college degree. It is not the Gov's fault you don't have the necessary skills to compete in today's world. The Gov can even help you pay for it (via loans, grants, GI Bill etc).
farm6.static.flickr.com

Average weekly paychecks have improved.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Inflation has not been out of control.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Manufacturing has started to go up.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Consumer spending is up.
i2.cdn.turner.com

Your taxes have not gone up since Obama took office. This was a rooted fear from Tea Partiers. Take a look at a Forbes article written by Bruce Bartlett, a self-described fiscal conservative...
Forbes: Tea partiers confused, taxes 'lower by every measure' under Obama (Cutting to a new window)
2012-06-20 11:06:15 AM  
2 votes:
Yes, after the Bush Admin. crashed and burned the economy, I can safely say that I am better off than I was when Bush left office in 2009.

I am also smart enough to realize that 90% of the problems our economy was facing (and continue to face) have fault that lie directly at the feet of the Republican party, for being complicit in the deregulation that got us to this point, and for doing fark all in Congress these last four years to try and help fix the shiat they helped cause.

And if you think RMoney is going to pull us out of this mess with the Tea Party at his back, you are farking delusional.

(Yes, I'm a Republican...so vote Gary Johnson.)
2012-06-20 11:01:05 AM  
2 votes:
I am better off than 4 years ago.

I work in the auto industry and Mrs Muta works at a bank. Both of us survived the Bush financial crash without losing our jobs. I got my first raise in 6 years last year though which has helped.

I feel more secure in my job now that we no longer firing people and Mrs. Muta is seeing more stability where she works as well.

There are fewer vacant homes in our neighborhood and fewer houses for sale. I noticed houses similar to ours are now selling for what we paid back in 2000. This is not good but it is better than what I was seeing when the Republicans were in the Whitehouse.

Am I doing better than 4 years ago? Hell yeah!
2012-06-20 10:54:21 AM  
2 votes:
I'm in the same place as 4 years ago, but only because I have a union. If I didn't, I'd have been farked over 6 ways from Sunday by now. Things like being required to work 9 days between days off, arbitrary demotion (lower pay, step back in career, but same job duties) to save money, being laid off so someone can be appointed to a lower paid "temporary position" covering my duties... which is extendable in 6 month increments for as long as the Director wants... all of those things are legal under the rules as they stand, and all have been attempted or planned, until the union got wind of it. All while my boss got a 32% raise and complains she was one of the lowest paid Directors in the City for a long time.

But public employee unions are eebil.
2012-06-20 10:49:00 AM  
2 votes:

James!: Which of Obama's regulations are stifling the box making industry? I'm genuinely curious.


This was my question as well.

The reason why this guy's wages have stagnated in the last 4 years (although it's likely been longer than that) is because if someone wants to buy boxes they can buy 10x the boxes for 1/10th the price from a Chinese factory where the "production supervisor" is a 12 year old child supervising 6 year old children.
2012-06-20 10:44:43 AM  
2 votes:
I'm not better off than I was 4 years ago, and yes, it is still George W. Bush's fault.

/but it would've helped had Obama tossed some banksters in jail or out of Air Force one.
2012-06-20 10:41:32 AM  
2 votes:
As someone who partially depends on research grants from the NIH, I'd rather have a President who doesn't want to slash their funding to pay for more tax cuts for the wealthy.
2012-06-20 10:17:00 AM  
2 votes:
I dont think people remember the economy 4 years ago. It was terrifying.
2012-06-20 11:47:36 PM  
1 votes:
In the summer of 2008, a group of us were laid off from a job I'd had for over six years.

This summer, watch the single manned canoe slalom at the Olympics. And if you see a man wearing a USA, established 1776 t-shirt waving Old Glory... say hello to your tv. It's me.

fark you and your revisionist history, GOP.
2012-06-20 02:25:35 PM  
1 votes:

FlashHarry: listen, folks, the world lost nearly half its wealth in the economic cataclysm that happened at the end of bush's second term. it was the single worst economic event since the crash of 1929. in the four years since obama took over, the stock market has doubled, the recession has ended, unemployment has gone down (not by as much as we'd like, obviously), and GDP has increased. all of this while republicans were fighting him at every single turn....so, yeah, though far from perfect, obama has my vote. and if you think that romney and his team of bush economists can do better, you're fooling yourself. or you're a retired billionaire hedge fund manager.



i.imgur.com

All approvals and endorsement should be done with cats.
2012-06-20 12:53:46 PM  
1 votes:

AirForceVet: FlashHarry: i'm certainly better off than i was 4 years ago.

listen, folks, the world lost nearly half its wealth in the economic cataclysm that happened at the end of bush's second term. it was the single worst economic event since the crash of 1929. in the four years since obama took over, the stock market has doubled, the recession has ended, unemployment has gone down (not by as much as we'd like, obviously), and GDP has increased. all of this while republicans were fighting him at every single turn.

this is a big deal. and it's going to take more than 4 years to fix - especially when you're facing the worst enemy this nation's economy has ever met: the modern republican party.

so, yeah, though far from perfect, obama has my vote. and if you think that romney and his team of bush economists can do better, you're fooling yourself. or you're a retired billionaire hedge fund manager.

^THIS^

/I'm better off financially than four years ago myself as well.


Ditto.
2012-06-20 12:53:45 PM  
1 votes:

WombatControl: Maybe because you haven't bothered to look?

Here's a list of over 200 of them, compiled by the House Oversight Commitee. There's even been plenty of books devoted to the subject, including this one.


I think you're missing the point? The point isn't whether or not regulations exist - it's that when people say "OMG regulation killed mah baby!" they never mention, specifically, what regulation killed them. What actually changed? Or was business just hard and you're yelling at regulations?
2012-06-20 12:35:38 PM  
1 votes:

Yeah, please run on the theme of just how great the Obama Economy really is - give us all those deceptively-edited "bikini graphs" and facts about how we should think that an incredibly weak recovery is just awesome. Because that strategy is totally going to convince people:

The spots that simply talk about progress on the economy did not do well.  The first offered a graphic depiction of job decline during the early months of the recession and job growth under President Obama.  The second highlighted progress on jobs in the automobile industry.  These ads did not win over most Obama voters.

It is possible the auto industry spot would have worked better in the northeastern part of the state, or that it did not imply it was a metaphor for the economy getting better in general.  Half the participants in the groups had voted for Obama, but less than a quarter gave this spot a positive rating.

The spot displaying the job growth graph did not fare much better: only about one-third (12 out of 34) gave this a positive rating.


That strategy simply doesn't work - the American people aren't stupid - they know when someone is trying to blow smoke up their asses. President Obama was elected on the promise that he would turn the economy around in his first term or his Presidency wouldn't last more than one term. Now he's turning around and whining about how hard the job was. That's bullshiat - even Obama was calling it the worse recession since the Great Depression on the campaign trail, and then he feigns surprise at the fact that it was?

The lame excuses are one of the reasons why Obama will lose this election, and badly.
2012-06-20 12:27:13 PM  
1 votes:

Mawson of the Antarctic: BeatrixK: Hmmm...let's see: 4 sago, I was laid off from my long-term job at a global tech giant so they could appease their stockholders, since struggling companies tend not to spend a shiatton of money on the high-end technology consulting that was employed by said company for.


Congrats! it's a great feeling to come out of the dark. I'm full-time now, but it's up in the air, but I had just graduated college and moved to the other side of the country the summer of 2008 so I was terrified for a b ...


Mawson, you are correct.

And make no mistake: I'm an avowed agnostic. But I was praying several times for whatever diety that might exist to please just not let me slip on ice and break my ass bone..Can't afford a bout of Pheumonia...I have ADHD, so went without my meds for several years...just couldn't afford them.

But yeah...the uncertainty of unsteady livelihood is something I wouldn't wish on many people. As a contractor, you aren't really 'one of the team', and it's no secret that, if numbers need to look good that quarter, cutting your contract is a very easy way to make the expenses look a little better. It's a phone call for them to make it happen. Despite however pleased the client may be with your work...you're on borrowed time as a temp contractor. And getting a full time job interview was akin to Haley's comment. Oh, throw on that I owned a house, so wasn't really available for relocation, what with having the shiattiest housing market ever! lol

I'd get stabby when friends would say 'Make the most of your time off.' Are you freaking kidding me? Why yes...I will dip into the vast expanse of my dwindling 401K to select the right color of paint to redecorate the country house. I believe I'll summer in the Hamptons with my vast pool of recreational time. My time off was spent networking, retooling my resume, stressing to the point I was amazed I didn't have a coronary. I managed to keep my credit rating in tact, and never lapsed on payments. But the stress and ego-deflation of that kind of drastic life-style shift is indescribable -- but it sucks ass, to be sure.

But you're right. It does feel good to be in the position we've found ourselves in. But, and I'm sure you will agree...there are 'after-effects' that still linger.

So Mitt, in a word...if what you've got to offer is anything REMOTELY like your GOP predecessor in terms of what it will do for me: No thanks - tried it...don't like it.
2012-06-20 11:44:09 AM  
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: sweetmelissa31: "He's done a hatchet job on the economy," says Larry Wilson, 49, a production supervisor at a corrugated box maker in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Wilson complains that prices are outstripping his salary and that the president is stifling business with excessive regulation.

Damn you Fartboxregulator

Why does no one ever cite which regulations are stifling business, or have any ability to articulate how these mystery regulations are stifling business?


Pretty sure any regulations that Obama would have wanted to pass, would have been nixed by the republicans anyways. There was a great article in Rolling Stone about Dodd Frank and basically how it will never be implemented.

And since Boehner got "98 % of what they wanted", how can they blame Obama for anything? He should have known better and NOT given you what you wanted? WTF??? Can anyone on the right make sense for once?
2012-06-20 11:32:23 AM  
1 votes:
As long as the Republican Party will toss a pittance of medicine towards the aging Boomers, they'll vote for any self-defeating deregulation act that allows those with money to keep more of it. And as long as they got the youth scared shiatless about life after college, scared so bad that they're petrified and can only be roused to vote in Presidential elections and not interim ones, then business will continue on as usual.
2012-06-20 11:29:53 AM  
1 votes:
Definitely.

More money, better job, 401K and IRA plans are back to normal after the Republican Depression.

Republicans spent 8 years destroying the economy, they want another 4 to finish the job.

/Vote Taliban Republican
2012-06-20 11:29:29 AM  
1 votes:
Four years ago I watched as my retirement savings all but evaporated. My wife didn't know from one day to the next if she was going to have a job to go to. And we were saddled with my student loan debt as well as car payments and credit cards.

Today we are essentially debt free (aside from the mortgage, which was refinanced to a MUCH better rate and will be paid off in approximately 10 years). I was able to continue investing in my retirement when the market was down, which during the rebound has brought my retirement savings to an all time high. My wife's job has had to buy two additional facilities and add a couple hundred new employees to keep up with demand.

I'm not holding my breath, but if I can get another four years like that I'll be ecstatic. So no Mitt, you won't be getting my vote in the fall.
2012-06-20 11:29:04 AM  
1 votes:
Hmmm...let's see: 4 sago, I was laid off from my long-term job at a global tech giant so they could appease their stockholders, since struggling companies tend not to spend a shiatton of money on the high-end technology consulting that was employed by said company for.

My job provided a company car - I lost that and had to use my savings to get transportation.

The 401K that I would have to rely on to supplement the pathetic excuse for unemployment benefits had already lost half it's value, and it was further dwindled via taxes and penalties. (My unemployment checks for a week covered what I was making in a day.)

Without a steady job, it was impossible for me to take advantage of low interest rates and refi my home. (Unemployed for a year and a half. IT was a suckfest field to be unemployed in and looking during 2008 - Midway 2011) Because I had over 10 years of experience, I wasn't even looked at for store clerk jobs. What temp contract work I could pick up provided no benefits, and an hourly rate 50% less than what I was making.

Forget health coverage: Cobra was too expensive, and I had to rely on praying I didn't get sick or break a limb. That's not a health-care plan I could recommend.

2012...Hmmm. I was offered two full-time gigs from large companies, paying me significantly more than what I made when I was laid off. (Still shocked at the one I turned down -- they even upped their offer when I told them of the other offer. But it came down to amount of travel on the road and their 401K plan) I was able to refinance my home and now pay 30% less a month for my mortgage . I have awesome health insurance. I am actually taking the first vacation I've had in three years -- and will get paid for it!

What do you think, Mitt?
2012-06-20 11:15:50 AM  
1 votes:
Just for simplicity's sake, is there anyone here who was actually doing BETTER 4 years ago, and would really like to return to a chaotic, spiraling clusterfark of economic doom?
2012-06-20 10:59:03 AM  
1 votes:
Party Boy

Robert Kagan is advising Mitt Romney on foreign affairs.

Hey! Is that the same Robert Kagan who co-founded Project For the New American Century? The PNAC with the September 200 report "Rebuilding America's Defenses" that had the line about selling their plan to the American people would likely take a long time "absent some catastrophic catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor"?

THAT Robert Kagan?
2012-06-20 10:58:40 AM  
1 votes:
Four years ago I was in Iraq. Thanks for asking, Mittens.
2012-06-20 10:56:13 AM  
1 votes:
Because fark what I think is best for the nation, I'm voting based solely on how well I did, personally.

Guess he finally found a way to appeal to the Ron Paul supporters.
2012-06-20 10:54:20 AM  
1 votes:
Mitt should be asking Americans if they want to implement the same policies that led to the lost decade and the subsequent crash because that's exactly what his economic plan calls for.
2012-06-20 10:54:12 AM  
1 votes:
4 years ago I was moving back in with my parents after graduating college with little hope of finding a good job.

Today I have a steady full time job at a rapidly growing company with health benefits and stock options. I'm living on my own and doing just fine now. Thanks for asking, Mitt! Obama's communist hellhole is doing great for me!
2012-06-20 10:49:29 AM  
1 votes:
I am better off. Not making more money or anything...just got rid of certain bills and don't eat out (at restaurants) much. Don't go to movies. Or concerts or really do anything that costs money.

Managed to pay off some credit cards and cut those f*ckers up. Only have one that we pay off every month. Don't have a lot saved...but hey, at least I am not in debt up to my eyeballs. The money I do have is all mine. Well student loans for the wife...those will never go away.

But all of this means sh*t because I live in a crazy red state that would vote red even if Romney came out and said "F*ck you, I only care for rich people and rich companies. Eat sh*t and die"
2012-06-20 10:44:58 AM  
1 votes:

sweetmelissa31: "He's done a hatchet job on the economy," says Larry Wilson, 49, a production supervisor at a corrugated box maker in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Wilson complains that prices are outstripping his salary and that the president is stifling business with excessive regulation.

Damn you Fartboxregulator


Why does no one ever cite which regulations are stifling business, or have any ability to articulate how these mystery regulations are stifling business?
2012-06-20 10:37:04 AM  
1 votes:
Still treading water for the most part, but I'm definitely in better shape than I was four years ago.

Having seen Romney's "management skills" first hand in Massachusetts, I'm confident his "fixes" are going to be great if you're already wealthy... Not so much if you're living on the ragged edges of the middle class in this country.
2012-06-20 10:29:55 AM  
1 votes:

James!: Which of Obama's regulations are stifling the box making industry? I'm genuinely curious.


He imposed a quota on the percentage of brown boxes allowed compared to white boxes.
2012-06-20 10:17:50 AM  
1 votes:
Did he cite the excessive regulation?


Still, though, I think there is probably only a small percentage that would want to be polled by Romney, including the dressage horses.
 
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