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(Sports Illustrated)   Dottie Sandusky took the stand to defend her husband and gave us the understatement of the century. "I'm strict, and I like for things to run a certain way, and we expect a lot of our kids." (w/palpatineesque pic)   (sportsillustrated.cnn.com) divider line 225
    More: Strange, Dottie Sandusky, New York County District Attorney, adolescence, State College, public humiliation  
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4045 clicks; posted to Sports » on 20 Jun 2012 at 12:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-20 01:10:09 PM
You think what the police did was misconduct in the interviews, or you think their lying about it on the stand was the bigger problem?

Both are bad. Hard to say which is worse, especially because the police thought they had turned off the tape recorder. If it's 'normal' to do as they said, then they'd have done it openly on tape and not testified they hadn't done it.

Perjury is criminal. So is aiding perjury, which is what the prosecution may have done.
 
2012-06-20 01:10:30 PM

MugzyBrown: Just for the sake of clarity, do you think Sandusky is being framed here? Do you think he's innocent?

He's probably guilty, but if I was on the jury now I'd be leaning towards acquital because I believe any misconduct by the gov't in prosecution should lead to an acquital.


I can see that for maybe the particular victims in question. But there was a victim who came forward first, who didn't have the cops "coercing" him [as the defense states] by referring to other victims. So maybe for those charges, the jury finds him not guilty. There are still plenty of other charges and plenty of other victims to get him thrown in jail for a long time.
 
2012-06-20 01:10:31 PM

MugzyBrown: Just for the sake of clarity, do you think Sandusky is being framed here? Do you think he's innocent?

He's probably guilty, but if I was on the jury now I'd be leaning towards acquital because I believe any misconduct by the gov't in prosecution should lead to an acquital.


There are over 50 charges against him. Even if he was acquitted of anything relating to that particular victim there's a good chance many of the other charges will go against him.
 
2012-06-20 01:11:41 PM

Levarien: MugzyBrown: ftfy. if you're going to go. go all out.

I'm not making anything up.. officers were on tape coaching up one of the witnesses.. They testified they never did such a thing.

Amendola seems intent on proving that the police are somehow willingly being duped by a cabal of young men looking to get rich. He has no answer for McQueary's testimony, no answer for those creepy letters, no answers for the statements made to the mother of one of the victims back in 1998.

That said, it just takes one Penn St die hard fan to make this a mistrial.


Or a paranoid anti police anti government weirdo
 
2012-06-20 01:12:09 PM

Levarien: That said, it just takes one Penn St die hard fan to make this a mistrial.


4 employees of PSU and 2 students on the jury.
 
2012-06-20 01:12:45 PM
Grrrr...just 2 seconds...
 
2012-06-20 01:13:58 PM

justtray: I'm not sure anywhere in what I posted that shows ANY type of misconduct.


You don't think the police coaching a witness "off tape" is misconduct?

justtray: 2) Who, and what specifically was lied about under oath.


That's easy. The police testified they had not told Victim #4 what had happened to other victims. They were on tape telling Victim #4 what had happened to other victims.

They also asked both officers if they had talked to eachother before their last time on the stand, one said yes, the other said no. So there are two bald faced lies.
 
2012-06-20 01:14:36 PM

MtLebanonBalogna: There are over 50 charges against him. Even if he was acquitted of anything relating to that particular victim there's a good chance many of the other charges will go against him.


Stop trying to explain the how the exclusionary rule actually works to it. It only wants its dear old PSU back the way it was.
 
2012-06-20 01:14:46 PM

The Muthaship: 4 employees of PSU and 2 students on the jury.


There would be more national "heat" on anything associated with Penn State if Sandusky walks.

You would think anyone on the jury with ties to the university would want to convict him no matter what, as that's step one in the path to something resembling "closure".
 
2012-06-20 01:15:47 PM

Levarien: MugzyBrown: ftfy. if you're going to go. go all out.

I'm not making anything up.. officers were on tape coaching up one of the witnesses.. They testified they never did such a thing.

Amendola seems intent on proving that the police are somehow willingly being duped by a cabal of young men looking to get rich. He has no answer for McQueary's testimony, no answer for those creepy letters, no answers for the statements made to the mother of one of the victims back in 1998.

That said, it just takes one Penn St die hard fan to make this a mistrial.


Yep.

And that's why Sandusky could have raped a conga line of toddlers on video, and probably still get acquitted.
 
2012-06-20 01:15:47 PM

killershark: I can see that for maybe the particular victims in question. But there was a victim who came forward first, who didn't have the cops "coercing" him [as the defense states] by referring to other victims. So maybe for those charges, the jury finds him not guilty. There are still plenty of other charges and plenty of other victims to get him thrown in jail for a long time.


That wouldn't bother me. But I'd question a lot of Victim 4's testimony for sure at this point.
 
2012-06-20 01:16:28 PM

Killer Cars: You would think anyone on the jury with ties to the university would want to convict him no matter what, as that's step one in the path to something resembling "closure".


Trying to guess how jurors will think is the path to insanity.
 
2012-06-20 01:19:01 PM

The Muthaship: Levarien: That said, it just takes one Penn St die hard fan to make this a mistrial.

4 employees of PSU and 2 students on the jury.


It wouldn't have to be a PSU diehard fan...it could be anyone on the jury. I've served as a juror on a criminal trial and a civil trial. Most of the jurors were reasonable -- if not intelligent -- people, but there was no accounting for some of the derp that was tossed around the table by a few people while we were deciding on the verdicts.
 
2012-06-20 01:19:25 PM

MugzyBrown: justtray: I'm not sure anywhere in what I posted that shows ANY type of misconduct.

You don't think the police coaching a witness "off tape" is misconduct?

justtray: 2) Who, and what specifically was lied about under oath.

That's easy. The police testified they had not told Victim #4 what had happened to other victims. They were on tape telling Victim #4 what had happened to other victims.

They also asked both officers if they had talked to eachother before their last time on the stand, one said yes, the other said no. So there are two bald faced lies.


Show me the QUOTES. I don't want to hear your made up interpretation of events. Did you see how I posted the actual facts earlier? They don't mesh up with what you're selling.
 
2012-06-20 01:20:12 PM
Don't worry, kids, Geraldo's on the case!

www.biography.com

semensperms.com
 
2012-06-20 01:21:57 PM
Heavens no! He never EVER wanted me to have buttsecks.
He was just playing with the leather Cheerio.
 
2012-06-20 01:22:52 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Troublesome Strumpet: Her husband wrote in his 2001 autobiography "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story"

There are no words.

At 225 pages, it's a hell of a "how-to" book.


It's also a pop-up book.
 
2012-06-20 01:23:49 PM

MugzyBrown: killershark: I can see that for maybe the particular victims in question. But there was a victim who came forward first, who didn't have the cops "coercing" him [as the defense states] by referring to other victims. So maybe for those charges, the jury finds him not guilty. There are still plenty of other charges and plenty of other victims to get him thrown in jail for a long time.

That wouldn't bother me. But I'd question a lot of Victim 4's testimony for sure at this point.


That's fine. But how many victims took the stand for the prosecution? Plus, there was the mother of a victim as well. So you throw out the charges related to Victim 4. You've still got enough to find him guilty of and put him in jail for the rest of his life.
 
2012-06-20 01:25:44 PM
Bbbut the POLICE are out to get Jerry! They already murdered that poor old man, joe paterno! NITTANY UP!
 
2012-06-20 01:27:51 PM

you have pee hands: But why would McClearly lie? What does he have to gain by destroying Penn State football? In this case it's not just the kids testifying.


Which is why I said I don't think this one will turn out like that. I try to be cautious on these kinds of things because it's all too common that the accusers retract their statements - we've seen several of those just this year. But again, I don't think this one will turn out like that. Provided the witness testimony is credible and there's no prosecutorial misconduct I think they'll get a conviction.
 
2012-06-20 01:29:38 PM

Owangotang: Bbbut the POLICE are out to get Jerry! They already murdered that poor old man, joe paterno! NITTANY UP!


I imagine most have you on ignore. But I have to say the only person I have seen say anything like that is you.
 
2012-06-20 01:30:16 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Levarien: MugzyBrown: ftfy. if you're going to go. go all out.

I'm not making anything up.. officers were on tape coaching up one of the witnesses.. They testified they never did such a thing.

Amendola seems intent on proving that the police are somehow willingly being duped by a cabal of young men looking to get rich. He has no answer for McQueary's testimony, no answer for those creepy letters, no answers for the statements made to the mother of one of the victims back in 1998.

That said, it just takes one Penn St die hard fan to make this a mistrial.

Yep.

And that's why Sandusky could have raped a conga line of toddlers on video, and probably still get acquitted.


He's not going to be acquitted. There's a big difference between a hung jury (mistrial) and an acquittal.
 
2012-06-20 01:31:23 PM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Saw this early this morning, and immediately thought:

 
2012-06-20 01:32:41 PM

MugzyBrown: killershark: I can see that for maybe the particular victims in question. But there was a victim who came forward first, who didn't have the cops "coercing" him [as the defense states] by referring to other victims. So maybe for those charges, the jury finds him not guilty. There are still plenty of other charges and plenty of other victims to get him thrown in jail for a long time.

That wouldn't bother me. But I'd question a lot of Victim 4's testimony for sure at this point.


I'm just going to throw this out there and point out that rape victims are generally not known for their mental stability.

Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection? That DA should lose his job, regardless of the verdict.
 
2012-06-20 01:33:49 PM

LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection?


The local news guy there said it would be impossible to seat a jury in that area with out PSU people on it, and neither side requested a change of venue.
 
2012-06-20 01:34:53 PM

LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection? That DA should lose his job, regardless of the verdict.


To avoid that in that community they would've had to get a ton of Amish people by horse and buggy to come to the courthouse, lol.
 
2012-06-20 01:37:23 PM

LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection? That DA should lose his job, regardless of the verdict.


I still find it shocking that there are people who believe jurors would vote to acquit in the face of credible abuse testimony because of their favorite football team. But I suppose the fact you'd insinuate it proves that partisanship of that ilk exists.
 
2012-06-20 01:37:42 PM

MtLebanonBalogna:

There are over 50 charges against him. Even if he was acquitted of anything relating to that particular victim there's a good chance many of the other charges will go against him.


The Feds are waiting in the wings if he gets off.Transporting a minor over state lines for purposes of diddling, yada yada.
This was the 1999 Alamo Bowl incident. And if the Feds won't prosecute, Texas is ready to extradite him, and he'll burn for sure.
 
2012-06-20 01:39:22 PM

AirForceVet: I'm just going to hold my comments and let the jury figure it out.

After the fiasco involving the McMartin Preschool in California, it can be challenging to develop an opinion on such a sensitive issue with some much press coverage involved. However, the victims here are not preschool kids, but teens who are testifying about incidents that only occurred some years ago.


An excellent point bringing up McMartin. The difference here is that McQueary actually witnessed something, as opposed to parents complaining after the fact.

McMartin should be a model of why you shouldn't listen to the media with this hot button cases because you will eventually evolve to an opinion that is not based in reality.

Examples: people think Dharun Ravi pushed Tyler Clementi off the George Washington Bridge and George Zimmerman emptied a clip into Trayvon Martin from behind.

It's not what HAPPENED, but that's what people THINK because the stories get misreported, facts get wrong, and it propagates to the point where the mistruths are represented as fact.
 
2012-06-20 01:39:28 PM

LoneWolf343: MugzyBrown: killershark: I can see that for maybe the particular victims in question. But there was a victim who came forward first, who didn't have the cops "coercing" him [as the defense states] by referring to other victims. So maybe for those charges, the jury finds him not guilty. There are still plenty of other charges and plenty of other victims to get him thrown in jail for a long time.

That wouldn't bother me. But I'd question a lot of Victim 4's testimony for sure at this point.

I'm just going to throw this out there and point out that rape victims are generally not known for their mental stability.

Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection? That DA should lose his job, regardless of the verdict.


Being connected in any way with PSU does not mean a juror will be sympathetic to Sandusky. Of all the Penn Staters I know I can't think of one that doesn't think Sandusky isn't guilty of at least most of the charges.
 
2012-06-20 01:41:10 PM

JohnBigBootay: LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection? That DA should lose his job, regardless of the verdict.

I still find it shocking that there are people who believe jurors would vote to acquit in the face of credible abuse testimony because of their favorite football team. But I suppose the fact you'd insinuate it proves that partisanship of that ilk exists.


Jury nullification is a real phenomenon. Look at the OJ Simpson murder trial.
 
2012-06-20 01:42:12 PM

JohnBigBootay: Owangotang: Bbbut the POLICE are out to get Jerry! They already murdered that poor old man, joe paterno! NITTANY UP!

I imagine most have you on ignore. But I have to say the only person I have seen say anything like that is you.


Their loss. If you have not seen people ardently defending penn state even still then you are willfully blind.
 
2012-06-20 01:43:16 PM

JohnBigBootay: LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection? That DA should lose his job, regardless of the verdict.

I still find it shocking that there are people who believe jurors would vote to acquit in the face of credible abuse testimony because of their favorite football team. But I suppose the fact you'd insinuate it proves that partisanship of that ilk exists.


Isn't the love for that football team the reason it was allowed to go on for 10+ years?
 
2012-06-20 01:43:33 PM

The Muthaship: LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection?

The local news guy there said it would be impossible to seat a jury in that area with out PSU people on it, and neither side requested a change of venue.


Perhaps the prosecution should have requested a change of venue. Hopefully if this trial results in a hung jury they'll retry the case in a different location.
 
2012-06-20 01:46:53 PM
So her primary defense is, "I never saw him do anything." Is that just another way of saying, "I never went in the basement when he had young boys over."?
 
2012-06-20 01:47:58 PM
I hope he beats the charges? Why? Because the world is a more interesting place with him walking the streets. If he goes to jail, we'll never hear about him again until somebody eventually shanks him to death.
 
2012-06-20 01:48:43 PM

farkityfarker: Jury nullification is a real phenomenon. Look at the OJ Simpson murder trial.


Sure it is. I've sat through it myself for days on end when I was called to Jury duty. But you're not going to find anyone in Centre County without a tangential relationship to Penn State any more than you could find English speakers in LA who didn't know who OJ Simpson was. And as others have pointed out I think the locals by and large are at least as likely as anyone else to be repulsed by Sandusky. Like any other trial this one will come down to to quality and quantity of credible witness testimony and the conduct and competence of the investigators and expert witnesses. There seems to be this idea among football fans of rival schools that PSU locals would not want to convict a fellow Penn State supporter. I simply find that idea absurd on its face. This isn't a BCS poll.
 
rka
2012-06-20 01:49:13 PM

JohnBigBootay: Owangotang: Bbbut the POLICE are out to get Jerry! They already murdered that poor old man, joe paterno! NITTANY UP!

I imagine most have you on ignore. But I have to say the only person I have seen say anything like that is you.


Yes, but when you do get an actual Penn State Alum/employee posting here or on any forum, aren't they about the most creepy sport fans you've ever come across? The level of hero worship that absolutely drips from their posts is...disturbing. They make our bunkered-down Saints fans in the other threads seem downright well-adjusted.

Even when they think they are being rational and sensitive to the issues there is a level of, I don't want to call it brain washing, but almost cult-like reverence for PSU and JoePa.
 
2012-06-20 01:49:20 PM
I've been weird about Joe Paterno's involvement in this whole mess.

People said "he should have done more"... but what exactly "more" could he have done?

He didn't witness Sandusky doing this... McQueary did. And Paterno told his bosses. Can you file a police report for something you didn't witness and you weren't involved in?

If Paterno did go to the police, they would have wanted to talk to McQueary, which begs the question why he didn't go to the police in the first place.

Paterno evolved from a man who five years ago was so "out of touch" that he wasn't even running the football team and he was just there for fan and booster support to the evil trope of "the man who runs Penn State".

I think, in the long run, Penn State handled this brutally, brutally bad. Their Crisis communication and management was the worst I've ever seen. I think the icing on the cake was having a "moment of silence" at a game after the tragedy broke. HAVING A MOMENT OF SILENCE IS WHAT GOT YOU INTO THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
 
2012-06-20 01:49:41 PM

PoochUMD: Isn't the love for that football team the reason it was allowed to go on for 10+ years?


Not exactly. It's not like the average fan knew he was a child molester. That's a bit like blaming the abuses of the Catholic church on your average Christmas & Easter catholic - they may have taken longer to come around to the fact that something was really wrong, but they weren't part of the incident or part of the coverup.
 
2012-06-20 01:51:17 PM

farkityfarker: The Muthaship: LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection?

The local news guy there said it would be impossible to seat a jury in that area with out PSU people on it, and neither side requested a change of venue.

Perhaps the prosecution should have requested a change of venue. Hopefully if this trial results in a hung jury they'll retry the case in a different location.


I think the prosecution probably knew of Penn Stater and Centre Countian level of outrage over Sandusky. That level is pretty high.
 
2012-06-20 01:52:04 PM

T.rex: I hope he beats the charges? Why? Because the world is a more interesting place with him walking the streets. If he goes to jail, we'll never hear about him again until somebody eventually shanks him to death.


justice be damned, t.rex wants interesting pedos to be free dammit!!!

and I'm the derpy one????
 
2012-06-20 01:52:55 PM

PoochUMD: Isn't the love for that football team the reason it was allowed to go on for 10+ years?


Not to my mind. I'd imagine it went on for the same reason it always goes on. Incompetence. Guilt. Shame. Disbelief. Fact is most child abuse goes unreported and most child abusers are family members or close family friends. The is the same thing writ large.
 
2012-06-20 01:53:31 PM

JohnBigBootay: LoneWolf343: Also, why the hell didn't the prosecution object to anyone who had any remote connection to Penn during jury selection? That DA should lose his job, regardless of the verdict.

I still find it shocking that there are people who believe jurors would vote to acquit in the face of credible abuse testimony because of their favorite football team. But I suppose the fact you'd insinuate it proves that partisanship of that ilk exists.


You don't know much about the culture of college football, do you? People eat, breathe, and sleep their favorite team. It's not that people will actually say "So what if he rapes little boys? I'm voting him not guilty anyway!" It's because people can get so star-struck about their personal heroes that they are unable to consider the possibility that said heroes may not be heroic at all. They have already made up their minds that he is being railroaded, despite the mountain of evidence. There is not one bit of proof that they could not explain away as fabricated, misinterpreted, or just plain false. Mr. Sandusky could pork a kid right in front of the jury box, and his fans would claim entrapment.

Granted, its not as if somebody who happens to work for or study at Penn St. would be incapable of impartiality. It's a big university, and someone could spend his whole tenure there and never engage with the sports program. He might actually even resent it. Yet, I would not have taken that chance. In fact, I probably would have asked if jurors followed college football at all, and bumped those that answered yes. Sports make people stupid.
 
2012-06-20 01:55:08 PM

MattyFridays: I've been weird about Joe Paterno's involvement in this whole mess.

People said "he should have done more"... but what exactly "more" could he have done?

He didn't witness Sandusky doing this... McQueary did. And Paterno told his bosses. Can you file a police report for something you didn't witness and you weren't involved in?

If Paterno did go to the police, they would have wanted to talk to McQueary, which begs the question why he didn't go to the police in the first place.

Paterno evolved from a man who five years ago was so "out of touch" that he wasn't even running the football team and he was just there for fan and booster support to the evil trope of "the man who runs Penn State".

I think, in the long run, Penn State handled this brutally, brutally bad. Their Crisis communication and management was the worst I've ever seen. I think the icing on the cake was having a "moment of silence" at a game after the tragedy broke. HAVING A MOMENT OF SILENCE IS WHAT GOT YOU INTO THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.


Poor poor joe paterno. He is the real victim, aye?
 
2012-06-20 01:58:44 PM

durbnpoisn: So her primary defense is, "I never saw him do anything." Is that just another way of saying, "I never went in the basement when he had young boys over."?


Was she asked if she ever heard anything? Because one of the victims claims he screamed his lungs out while Sandusky was raping him in the basement, but no one responded.
 
2012-06-20 02:00:53 PM

Troublesome Strumpet: Her husband wrote in his 2001 autobiography "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story"

There are no words.


Well it's better than the original working title: "I Like To Cornhole Little Boys."
 
2012-06-20 02:01:57 PM

rka: Yes, but when you do get an actual Penn State Alum/employee posting here or on any forum, aren't they about the most creepy sport fans you've ever come across?


I have seen somewhat disturbed fans of just about everyone. Having grown up in Alabama I always found the Bear Bryant worship a bit crazy. Though I understand it. But anyway, to answer your question.... no. I don't see PSU fans as any more delusional than anyone else. If your school gets a title or three and the coach stick around for fifty years I imagine he'd be somewhat revered as well. I think Joe Paterno was mostly a force for good who stuck around too long and should have spoken up sooner and louder and it was right to dismiss him. He should have left ten years ago. But I'm not gonna re-write history and discount his positive influence. Bad people do good things. Good people do bad things. The press wants everything to be black and white but it's just not.
 
2012-06-20 02:03:04 PM

JohnBigBootay: PoochUMD: Isn't the love for that football team the reason it was allowed to go on for 10+ years?

Not to my mind. I'd imagine it went on for the same reason it always goes on. Incompetence. Guilt. Shame. Disbelief. Fact is most child abuse goes unreported and most child abusers are family members or close family friends. The is the same thing writ large.


Just like the woman who testified that her son came home with no underwear. But she didn't look into it any further.
 
2012-06-20 02:04:51 PM

MattyFridays: I've been weird about Joe Paterno's involvement in this whole mess.

People said "he should have done more"... but what exactly "more" could he have done?

He didn't witness Sandusky doing this... McQueary did. And Paterno told his bosses. Can you file a police report for something you didn't witness and you weren't involved in?

If Paterno did go to the police, they would have wanted to talk to McQueary, which begs the question why he didn't go to the police in the first place.

Paterno evolved from a man who five years ago was so "out of touch" that he wasn't even running the football team and he was just there for fan and booster support to the evil trope of "the man who runs Penn State".


things joepa the legendary coach of penn state could have done, that i would classify as "more"

1) talk to the police. like the real police with badges and whatnot. pretty sure if joepa walks into the happy valley police station they aren't going to throw him out before asking what's on his mind. maybe bring mcqueary along.

2) hit sandusky with a baseball bat that practice golf cart he sometimes got around in.

3) do more than just say keep your kiddy-raping out of my football facilities.
 
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