The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've been watching too much DS9. I read that as latinum

Does that even come on TV enough anymore to watch too much of it?

Sergeant Grumbles: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I've been watching too much DS9. I read that as latinum

Does that even come on TV enough anymore to watch too much of it?

The whole series is on Netflix...

EighthDay: The whole series is on Netflix...

Good to know. I'll have to check that out.

/You kids today and your hoola hoops and hopscotch...

Thinking there might not be enough lithium makes me really really depressed.

But then I get over it and get really really happy.

pudding7: Helium is next. Unfortunately, there's no commodity trading for Helium. Lithium either, although there is an ETF for it. "LIT", but it hasn't done much, since it's basically an index of various companies that use or produce lithium components.

Someone find me a way to buy helium now, and sell it later.

The United States is the world's major holder of helium and, for some reason, Congress passed a law stating that we had to sell our entire helium stock by some certain date. Some commodities traders have said that, if the United States weren't artificially lowering prices, helium would be about 100x more expensive than it is now.

Damn right I wish I could buy helium now and sell it later.

pudding7: Someone find me a way to buy helium now, and sell it later.

I suppose you can just buy tanks of the stuff. Might want to check with the local government if they have any regulations regarding the storage of compressed gasses, but helium is inert so it's not like it's a hazardous material. Granted you'd have some problems selling the stuff but helium is pretty easy to qualify, as there are only so many inert, non-toxic lifting gasses. If someone asks you to prove it's genuine, just inhale a bit of the stuff and talk funny.

Lord Dimwit: pudding7: Helium is next. Unfortunately, there's no commodity trading for Helium. Lithium either, although there is an ETF for it. "LIT", but it hasn't done much, since it's basically an index of various companies that use or produce lithium components.

Someone find me a way to buy helium now, and sell it later.

The United States is the world's major holder of helium and, for some reason, Congress passed a law stating that we had to sell our entire helium stock by some certain date. Some commodities traders have said that, if the United States weren't artificially lowering prices, helium would be about 100x more expensive than it is now.

Damn right I wish I could buy helium now and sell it later.

Just so that no one makes any silly investments -> current Helium stocks are dwindling, but there is still massive quantities that can be easily accessed through natural gas fields (if the price were right).

-from wiki-
Diffusion of crude natural gas through special semipermeable membranes and other barriers is another method to recover and purify helium.[79] In 1996, the U.S. had proven helium reserves, in such gas well complexes, of about 147 billion standard cubic feet (4.2 billion SCM).[80] At rates of use at that time (72 million SCM per year in the U.S.; see pie chart below) this is enough helium for about 58 years of U.S. use, and less than this (perhaps 80% of the time) at world use rates, although factors in saving and processing impact effective reserve numbers. It is estimated that the resource base for yet-unproven helium in natural gas in the U.S. is 31-53 trillion SCM, about 1000 times the proven reserves.[81]

...If helium really became sparse, we would just produce more.

....Lithium though is another question. I've been looking into investing in SQM for a long time now. Solid fertilizer producer with a huge upside in the Li market.

WHaaaat? PEek Liitnium? Nooo, thut's jus' turrble..

I just had a vision of a Vietnamese sweatshop tearing down old electronics for recycling.

E-waste. It's nothing new, but it could be a source for lithium, tantalum, gold, silver, copper.

The problem is mostly in refining it, since the easiest process I can think of would be to dump whole devices into a thermal-depolymerization machine, separate the crunchy leftovers for steel and glass, then melt the remaining to get a copper ready for further processing. I don't know where the lithium would wind up in that process, but it's still in there.

When are we going to realize the battery-powered car is a fool's pursuit? They already don't pay for themselves, have a larger total carbon footprint than every other car up to and including massive SUVs, and will only get more expensive as lithium gets more difficult to source?

The answer for cars is natural gas, leaving the lithium for electronics, and oil for plastics and everything else it's needed to make.

The Z Spot: ...If helium really became sparse, we would just produce more.

Since helium is an element, how would we produce more?

midigod: Since helium is an element, how would we produce more?

Proton-Boron fusion => three He + energy

So mindless consumption of useless, pretty electronics shiat that requires ridiculous amounts of resources to create and limited resources to maintain (lithium) has consequences? WHO KNEW?!

Peaking on Lithium? You bet I did. I love that song.

/Nevermind

midigod: The Z Spot: ...If helium really became sparse, we would just produce more.

Since helium is an element, how would we produce more?

Perhaps "produce" is a bad word choice. I guess "isolate pure helium" may be a better phrasing

All I was implying was that it appears that there are untapped sources (natural gas wells) where plenty more helium could be acquired - beyond the current isolated helium reserves.

If th price of helium skyrocketed, I'm sure NatGas producers would start isolating helium from their wells (which would of course drop the price back down). Certainly as with all commodities there is scarcity - but similarly to the current Rare Earth mineral crunch, the problem is not lack of the commodity, just the non cost-efficiency of production.

If Bolivia can get its act together, lithium production could skyrocket. But knowing Bolivia, they'll start ramping up production right around the time a cost-effective alternative is available.

MugzyBrown: machoprogrammer: So mindless consumption of useless, pretty electronics shiat that requires ridiculous amounts of resources to create and limited resources to maintain (lithium) has consequences? WHO KNEW?!

So you're the one who tells the world which electronics are mindless?

Buying the newest iPad because it has a 1 inch bigger display than the one you have because you have to have the newest tech gadget always is pretty mindless. And no, not exclusive to Apple fans by any means

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Ashland Oregon (home of the Oregon Shakespearean Festival) used to be home to many sanitariums because their water is naturally saturated with lithium, which is a mood uplifter. Lithia Creek flows through the heart of the most beautiful park I've ever seen, Lithia Park (designed by the same guy who designed Golden Gate Park in San Francisco).

I used to go there when I was a kid. The sand dust in the playground made me nauseous for some reason.

/ yes, I am a blast at parties.

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: whither_apophis: "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow... I forgot what I was going say! Verily 'tis all well"

LOL, whenever I'm in Ashland, I always stop and take a drink from the fountains. Tastes like crap, but makes me happy. Your comment made me happy too! :)

Mescaline will do that to a person.

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: If Bolivia can get its act together, lithium production could skyrocket. But knowing Bolivia, they'll start ramping up production right around the time a cost-effective alternative is available.

Chile has huge reserves and a mining company friendly environment. You'll get your lithium.

/and Chile will get a few pennies on each lithium dollar
//yay, generous governments!

Is it worth trawling for these yet?

Larva Lump: Is it worth trawling for these yet?


All of the Li from those is in the form of oxide particles in the Indian Ocean. They don't splashdown.

There's lithium in orange rinds ... no worries.

Um, you "produce" more helium by a million years of radioactive decay. When the stuff trapped in gas fields is gone, there will be no more.

pudding7: Helium is next. Unfortunately, there's no commodity trading for Helium. Lithium either, although there is an ETF for it. "LIT", but it hasn't done much, since it's basically an index of various companies that use or produce lithium components.

Nah, Indium will be next. People love their fancy LCDs, LEDs, capacitive touchscreens, solar panels, etc. and there isn't a ton of it known anyway (and 60% of it is in China).

Really anything that needs to be transparent and conductive. I guess it's recyclable, but no one does.

That's okay, I've found new mines
They're in my head

Any Pie Left: Um, you "produce" more helium by a million years of radioactive decay. When the stuff trapped in gas fields is gone, there will be no more.

I would have to imagine more helium is produced from fusion of Hydrogen, as opposed to radioactive decay. I can't imagine there's large enough quantities of radioactive low atomic-number material to produce a significant amount through decay. Though, I'm curious myself -> Do alpha particles from eventually acquire free electrons and become Helium?

Regardless, it is estimated that the resource base for yet-unproven helium in natural gas in the U.S. is 31-53 trillion SCM. Given that the use rate is only 72 million SCM per year in the U.S, we should be set for a fair amount of time.

In the timeframe it takes to use up that amount, I would hope we'd have the technological capacity to mine helium-3 on the moon.