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(Upworthy)   What do you do when the Tea Party tries to block a .7% tax increase so your library can stay open? You start a "Close the library - Join the Book Burning Party" campaign to disgust voters into voting to keep the library open, of course   (upworthy.com) divider line 336
    More: Cool, library  
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13974 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jun 2012 at 8:38 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-19 09:26:48 PM  

robertmeerdahl: Mugato: The Tea Party doesn't take kindly to all that book lernin'. You can tell by their signs. 7% tax fer liberries? Intellectual elitist tax n' spender! We shouldn't spend $600bill on new ICBMs even though we no longer have anyone to shoot at? Hippie!

it's called the "washington monument" strategy: the bureaucrats threaten to close a high profile destination, so they can get the spending increases / avoid cuts for the stuff they really want, like luxurious pensions & jobs for buddies

everyone goes nuts about the "washington monument" (or in this case, the library) being closed, instead of focusing on where the other spending is going

the usual dupes fall for it every time...


See also: Post Office threatens to remove Saturday delivery.
 
2012-06-19 09:27:43 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-06-19 09:28:16 PM  

Alleyoop: [cdn.geardiary.com image 224x350][2.bp.blogspot.com image 240x180][upload.wikimedia.org image 260x196]


[www.itechnews.net image 450x325]

Embrace evolution. Libraries just help non-computer owners surf for porn.


Not everyone can afford an e-reader. You can, however, borrow them from the library.
 
2012-06-19 09:29:22 PM  

Coelacanth: Just throwing an idea out here: Amazon Wish Lists for libraries.


I'm not supporting an AW Library.
 
2012-06-19 09:32:02 PM  

untaken_name: Isn't it kind of outdated? I mean, having to actually go to a physical location to get information? Funk dat.


Aren't you cute. I love the idea that if anything was worth knowing, it would be on Google already, because nothing was ever published before 1998.

Hey, I need some information from the 1950 edition of Who's Who on the Pacific Coast and it's not available online. I assume you'll be volunteering to go get it for me.
 
2012-06-19 09:33:15 PM  
Libraries just help non-computer owners surf for porn.

SIGH. This again? Here's a little snippet for you. I was researching the Rockefellers and went to the Seattle library, which opened about a month after I arrived there. Hideous building, stunning collection. I was actually able to research check out, and present documents signed by the Rockefellers for a presentation. Poop that out of your Kindle!
 
2012-06-19 09:34:26 PM  
Egalitarian:

Libraries are in fact still vital. As hard as it is to believe, there are a lot of people who don't have Internet access, who don't have computer skills, and/or who can't afford to buy books,

Librarians help people all the time with filling out job applications and government forms on the Internet. You think every poor person can afford a laptop, can go to Starbucks and get a barrista to print out a tax form?


More than that.

People who either grew up after the internet was established or who never ventured into a library have no idea of why they are such a resource.

For one thing, by browsing through the stacks I was exposed to thousands of books that (as a kid) I never would have been able to purchase, and that expanded my tiny mind a little bit. I read stuff that I never would have picked up at a bookstore or paid for as a download on BN.com.

They have research assistants that know everything that Google knows (since they have google) AND even when they don't know an answer directly and your google-fu fails, they can put you on the track to find out about the most obscure stuff. They do that sort of thing all day while you're Farking and surfing porn. They get good at it.

They have free access to stuff that would otherwise be behind a paywall. Shopping for a new car and want to read the full Consumer Reports writeups? Sorry... You'll have to subscribe.... Or go to your library where it's free. Same goes for most news archives. (I wonder how many people still know how to use a microfiche reader?)

And not everything is digitized yet.

And then there's the used book sales. "Hi. My name is Max, and I'm a book addict." I'll readily admit that I used to hit the local library used book sale shelf at least once a week. In my county it was $0.25 for paperbacks and $0.50 for spavine-backed hardcovers. I'd sometimes walk out of there with $5 worth of books. It got to the point where the librarians would clue me in... "Hey! Come back thursday, we're going to be putting a bunch more up!" They even loaned me one of the squeaky-wheeled book carts once to get a particularly rich load out to the car. I always made them keep the change when I bought them, saying "Keep the change, so you can buy more books and wear them out so I can add them to *my* library*."

I'm all about ebooks and internet, but libraries are sooooo very much more than either of those can provide.
 
2012-06-19 09:34:39 PM  

Coelacanth: Just throwing an idea out here: Amazon Wish Lists for libraries.


I've considered something like that, but there are a couple of problems. First, I don't want to add most of the crap that gets sent to me as donations. You won't believe the amount of Warren Jeffs, Scientology, and self-published drivel that got sent to me when I was working at a university library. And, no, I don't want your dead grandfather's 70 boxes of 40-year old history books and Harper's Weeklys.

Now, add to that the fact that customers are paying for these books and I can't imagine the backlash when somebody buys $500 worth of their kid's self-published family history, expecting us to stick a copy in every branch. Good Lord that would be awful.
 
2012-06-19 09:34:46 PM  
Elzar:
the fact that libraries are becoming less and less relevant in the modern information age

Some "fact". Without librarians and archivists your "information age" becomes a cesspit of Twitterable rumour, a wiki to suit every bias, and people surfing the net from behind invisible walls of corporate or governmental censorship. Librarians have also fought tooth and nail, sometimes by breaking or challenging the law, to protect the privacy and civil liberties of their readers from nosy cops and intelligence agencies.

rugman11:
[the] marginal cost for providing services to additional users is so low there's no reason not to.

This. I'd guess that well-run libraries generally benefit from increased usership, though I'm not immediately sure how.
 
2012-06-19 09:35:23 PM  

Elzar: First off, not a tea-partier...

However I pay taxes for my cities' library and yet because I live less then 1/4mi outside of the city limits, I must pay $80 per year for a membership (on top of the % paid every year in property tax). Its bullshiat like this + the fact that libraries are becoming less and less relevant in the modern information age that I wouldn't feel bad about more of these libraries going out of business.


Maybe you should live in the city limits and pay income tax. Then you wouldn't have to pay $80 and your city would have more $ to fund the library and other city services...
 
2012-06-19 09:36:30 PM  
The citizens of my town voted for a tax increase to fund 100 more cops. Well, they stopped funding 50 positions out of the regular budget and only hired 50 more cops.

Because of these budget shenanigans I will NEVER EVER vote for a tax increase to pay for a specific function such as more cops, libraries, or whatever else they are pushing. Taxed Enough Already
 
2012-06-19 09:36:49 PM  
rugman11:
I can't imagine the backlash when somebody buys $500 worth of their kid's self-published family history, expecting us to stick a copy in every branch. Good Lord that would be awful.

Wish lists are a list of what YOU want, and people buy them for you.
 
2012-06-19 09:40:04 PM  
Tea Party's main argument, summed up:

I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THINGS I DON'T USE
 
2012-06-19 09:40:57 PM  

I_C_Weener: You want to save the library. Then name another budget cut. A local budget cut.


The Police. They make enough profit, er revenue by stealing, wait I mean confiscating money and property without due process from citizens. Wait, I meant dirty commy turrists.

Please dont send me to gitmo.
 
2012-06-19 09:41:27 PM  

Mugato: The Tea Party doesn't take kindly to all that book lernin'. You can tell by their signs. 7% tax fer liberries? Intellectual elitist tax n' spender! We shouldn't spend $600bill on new ICBMs even though we no longer have anyone to shoot at? Hippie!


Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.


wOW tHe Farst too poosts looc like th-A wore VVriten bUY sumwun hoos libary wuz shUt doun.

I'm no fan of the Tea Party either, but for farks sake try finishing high school before you try to form thoughts on political issues. When you write like a farking lulcat everyone knows exactly how much to care about what you say.
 
2012-06-19 09:43:23 PM  
@Alleyoop,

the first three on that list of images will still be there with information unchanged and stable for many decades after the electronic device has broken down due to a chip fault. The Library is likely requiring increases in funding to provide the resources for upgrading to the fourth image devices.

Also, the middle two images store carbon, so you could convert farmed trees into very long term information storage devices (books) and capture the carbon long term. You could encourage the masses to read. They will experience ideas external to their locale and gain knowledge which will help them to understand and think about the experiences external to their locales.

Most of the knowledge suitable for the general masses is sort of set in stone, chemistry, physics, maths, classic literature, all do not change at the basic level very much. I like reading and I collect books. I hope someday when I am very old (I am just old now) I will be able to put them into a place and have younger people read the ideas and knowledge contained in them and learn some things and ideas and gain experience of the wide wild world out there.

Yep, I am probably classified as part of the very thinking "elite", but i think I am just a common person living in the 21st Century.
 
2012-06-19 09:44:16 PM  
Yes, the internet age makes information more available. Yay, computers.

Now, fast forward 4000 years.

The only information that still remains is the stuff that's not reliant on electricity. Things that were carved, printed, etc. All your self absorbed YouTubes are irretrievable, all your Garageband doodlings are lost, all your smart-ass online repartee has vanished. Only the hardscape remains.

/Where is your Blog, now?
//Exordium and Terminus
 
2012-06-19 09:45:35 PM  

algrant33: You're homeowners, some of you, and you don't understand how property taxes work???


they're trolls, they likely live in basements
 
2012-06-19 09:45:48 PM  

No Such Agency: rugman11:
I can't imagine the backlash when somebody buys $500 worth of their kid's self-published family history, expecting us to stick a copy in every branch. Good Lord that would be awful.

Wish lists are a list of what YOU want, and people buy them for you.


I understand the concept, but it never stays that way. Just ask somebody who's ever used a gift registry, to which the snowman measuring cups my wife received at our wedding (in July) will also attest.

Besides, books are a much smaller portion of the budget than most people realize. In times of budget trouble, libraries are much more likely to cut hours, since heating, cooling, and powering a 90,000 square foot building is usually WAY more expensive than buying a few thousand books.
 
2012-06-19 09:48:08 PM  

Ishkur: Tea Party's main argument, summed up:

I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THINGS I DON'T USE


Which is NOT how this country was made great. Our tax dollars funded many, many projects that I have never personally benefitted from. But that's how society works.

Tea Partiers are like most groups: there's a group of reasonable folks surrounded by some loud mouth bullies that get the most attention and steer the herd.

And, I am not joking, they are the contemporary version of the Nazi party: a country that's having financial trouble, blaming things on the foreigners, taking small steps to "regain their country" and eventually becoming a large group of rational people doing irrational things.

It's wise to be a bit afraid of them.
 
2012-06-19 09:49:15 PM  

GAT_00: Where he lives the library is not a public resource. That's my point.


Then he shouldn't have to pay the taxes for its upkeep. Your point is illogical.
 
2012-06-19 09:49:27 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Coelacanth: Just throwing an idea out here: Amazon Wish Lists for libraries.

I'm not supporting an AW Library.


the library will bare it's shelves to you, so you'll purchase it books to cover them with
 
2012-06-19 09:52:10 PM  

dmax: Yes, the internet age makes information more available. Yay, computers.

Now, fast forward 4000 years.

The only information that still remains is the stuff that's not reliant on electricity. Things that were carved, printed, etc. All your self absorbed YouTubes are irretrievable, all your Garageband doodlings are lost, all your smart-ass online repartee has vanished. Only the hardscape remains.

/Where is your Blog, now?
//Exordium and Terminus


well, if we make the libraries nuke resistant, then make you solve a math problem maybe the knownledge will be there for future generations

/no I haven't gone crazy eddie
 
2012-06-19 09:52:24 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-06-19 09:53:37 PM  

algrant33: Three Crooked Squirrels: No. I'm not sure why you don't get my point. The library budget is a very small part of the total budget. If taxes on the total budget have to be raised 0.7% to cover the shortfall, the library can't shave 0.7% from its much smaller budget and cover the same shortfall. I don't know how to make myself any clearer. What is your point?

[sharetv.org image 266x300]

PERCENTAGES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!!!


I don't know if you know it, but you to actually agree with each other. If you bolded 4 more words, anyway. The Boobieser was saying that a .7% increase to your total tax bill is not the same as a ,7% change in the library's budget. Which... you agreed with, i think. Sounds like the shortfall is equivalent to, or greater than, the library's entire budget.
 
2012-06-19 09:54:31 PM  

EnviroDude: Weaver95: EnviroDude: Because asking a city or library to reduce expenses by 0.7% is too much to ask for in today's gooberments.

so you'd rather see the public library destroyed than find a way to shave .07% of the budget from somewhere else? if, as you imply, it's not that much money then i'm sure they could find the money somewhere else.

what i'm getting from our local fark GOP shills is that libraries just aren't that important to them.

If I were the head librarian, I would find a way to reduce expenses by 0.7%. A reduction in hours, disconnecting the porn computer, etc.

To turn the rhetoric into a "burn the dayam books" campaign is a sign that the guy behind it should be fired.


The word problems in math class always gave you trouble didn't they?
 
2012-06-19 09:54:50 PM  

dmax: Yes, the internet age makes information more available. Yay, computers.

Now, fast forward 4000 years.

The only information that still remains is the stuff that's not reliant on electricity. Things that were carved, printed, etc. All your self absorbed YouTubes are irretrievable, all your Garageband doodlings are lost, all your smart-ass online repartee has vanished. Only the hardscape remains.

/Where is your Blog, now?
//Exordium and Terminus


cute and all but most books would not survive 4000 years either. In fact if the world went into chaos where no electricity existed. Most books would probably be recycled into something else like firewood. So the notion that we must save physical copies of books for the apocalypse is silly.
 
2012-06-19 09:55:23 PM  
unlikely:

Weaver95: well...books ARE the harbingers of change...and Tzeench IS one of the Ruinous Powers.

Penemue was the angel who was cast out of heaven for giving mankind the ability to write and put ink to paper. His great sin was wanting to let mankind lift itself out of the morass of stupidity caused by not remembering things from one generation to the next. Literally, he was cast into hell because book larnin is ungodly.

/book of Enoch


Prometheus says:
s11.postimage.org
 
2012-06-19 09:55:33 PM  

untaken_name: See also: Post Office threatens to remove Saturday delivery.


The USPS is not supported by tax dollars. You are ignorant.
 
2012-06-19 09:55:53 PM  
He who has visited a library in last month cast the first stone. The library is dead. If you don't cut funding today, when do we cut it? Invest in our future not our past.
 
2012-06-19 09:56:22 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: Wangiss: tThree Crooked Squirrels: Wangiss: To be fair, s/he didn't specify.

S/he mentioned the head librarian reducing expenses by 0.7%. I'm guessing the head librarian only has input into the library budget.

A re you also guessing that money doesn't come from the city budget?

No. I'm not sure why you don't get my point. The library budget is a very small part of the total budget. If taxes on the total budget have to be raised 0.7% to cover the shortfall, the library can't shave 0.7% from its much smaller budget and cover the same shortfall. I don't know how to make myself any clearer. What is your point?


I would actually bet that all of the increased revenue taken in by the .7% increase would not find its way to only the library. Even if it was written into the law. Laws can be rewritten after the fact to spend the money elsewhere and then they would be in the same boat down the road. "We need to raise taxes again to pay for the library because we spent the money that we raised the last time to pay for the library to pay for those new electric car charging stations that we just had to build."

That's the crux of the problem almost every time. You give and give and give more and they never have to cut. Going up to the federal level, when was the last time ANY program was actually really cut? Ever?
 
2012-06-19 09:57:05 PM  

dmax: eventually becoming a large group of rational ignorant and evil people doing irrational ignorant and evil things


Made that more accurate for you.
 
2012-06-19 09:58:24 PM  

Tellingthem: dmax: Yes, the internet age makes information more available. Yay, computers.

Now, fast forward 4000 years.

The only information that still remains is the stuff that's not reliant on electricity. Things that were carved, printed, etc. All your self absorbed YouTubes are irretrievable, all your Garageband doodlings are lost, all your smart-ass online repartee has vanished. Only the hardscape remains.

/Where is your Blog, now?
//Exordium and Terminus

cute and all but most books would not survive 4000 years either. In fact if the world went into chaos where no electricity existed. Most books would probably be recycled into something else like firewood. So the notion that we must save physical copies of books for the apocalypse is silly.


and missing the point. That's not an argument for books, per se, but to point out that the Internet is hardly the superior place to leave the documentation of society. It is the most temporary, and meaningless, form of documentation.

But the cave paintings, protected from erosion and damage, are still there. We should learn a lesson.
 
2012-06-19 09:59:03 PM  
Ishkur:

Tea Party's main argument, summed up:

I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THINGS I DON'T USE!


Seriously. They're the dine-and-dash assholes of any social contract.
 
2012-06-19 09:59:13 PM  

thisisarepeat: Mugato: The Tea Party doesn't take kindly to all that book lernin'. You can tell by their signs. 7% tax fer liberries? Intellectual elitist tax n' spender! We shouldn't spend $600bill on new ICBMs even though we no longer have anyone to shoot at? Hippie!

Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

wOW tHe Farst too poosts looc like th-A wore VVriten bUY sumwun hoos libary wuz shUt doun.

I'm no fan of the Tea Party either, but for farks sake try finishing high school before you try to form thoughts on political issues. When you write like a farking lulcat everyone knows exactly how much to care about what you say.


I'm not a TPer, but it has been a very long time since I went to high school. I should probably go back.

/no pedo
 
2012-06-19 09:59:33 PM  

untaken_name: Isn't it kind of outdated? I mean, having to actually go to a physical location to get information? Funk dat.



Yeah, those stupid poor people who don't have computers or internet. Or people who just want to read a book. WTF they should all be playing xbox like you.

/so these are the TRUTHS you claim to get so much hate from?
 
2012-06-19 09:59:40 PM  

Smurfme: He who has visited a library in last month cast the first stone. The library is dead. If you don't cut funding today, when do we cut it? Invest in our future not our past.


you know, just cause you don't go to the library doesn't mean others don't

My wife and kids are in one of the 3 local libraries once a week, i swing by once every month or so to stock up on novels
 
2012-06-19 09:59:44 PM  
So, is it an increase in the local taxes that I already pay by only .7%? Or is it another .7% of my gross income?

Cause I really CAN'T afford $900 more in taxes. Even if it's for the library, I am maxed out. Sorry
 
2012-06-19 10:00:54 PM  

Smurfme: He who has visited a library in last month cast the first stone. The library is dead. If you don't cut funding today, when do we cut it? Invest in our future not our past.


My internet-addicted basement-dweller son got his driver's license recently. First thing he did was head to the library. How do I know he was really there? "All the books there are old and the information is out of date!"

Sitting and reading is a very different life experience from sitting and staring at a screen.
The former: pleasurable; the latter: excruciating.
 
2012-06-19 10:01:06 PM  

maxheck: Ishkur:

Tea Party's main argument, summed up:

I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THINGS I DON'T USE!

Seriously. They're the dine-and-dash assholes of any social contract.


I say we set aside a place that lacks social contracts and ship 'em off. They won't have to pay a dime for anyone but themselves.

/Don't forget to build a very big wall around it and shoot them if they try to escape.
 
2012-06-19 10:02:22 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: Three Crooked Squirrels: Wangiss: tThree Crooked Squirrels: Wangiss: To be fair, s/he didn't specify.

S/he mentioned the head librarian reducing expenses by 0.7%. I'm guessing the head librarian only has input into the library budget.

A re you also guessing that money doesn't come from the city budget?

No. I'm not sure why you don't get my point. The library budget is a very small part of the total budget. If taxes on the total budget have to be raised 0.7% to cover the shortfall, the library can't shave 0.7% from its much smaller budget and cover the same shortfall. I don't know how to make myself any clearer. What is your point?

I would actually bet that all of the increased revenue taken in by the .7% increase would not find its way to only the library. Even if it was written into the law. Laws can be rewritten after the fact to spend the money elsewhere and then they would be in the same boat down the road. "We need to raise taxes again to pay for the library because we spent the money that we raised the last time to pay for the library to pay for those new electric car charging stations that we just had to build."

That's the crux of the problem almost every time. You give and give and give more and they never have to cut. Going up to the federal level, when was the last time ANY program was actually really cut? Ever?


www.bloodygoodhorror.com
 
2012-06-19 10:02:43 PM  

Smurfme: He who has visited a library in last month cast the first stone. The library is dead. If you don't cut funding today, when do we cut it? Invest in our future not our past.


I wouldn't call it dead but transitioning. Things will be moving more and more into the digital realm. Just as in days past when things were put onto microfiche. It will take time but sooner or later most things will be available on the internet. But libraries do serve a bigger purpose than just checking out books right now.
 
2012-06-19 10:03:34 PM  

sid2112: I think there may just be a whole lot more to this story than what Mr. Lib blogger has brought forth. That being said I love my local library and support it financially whenever I can.


This.

I'd like to know what the sales tax rates were before the vote and how much revenue an 0.7% increase would bring.

/any Troy (MI I assume) here?
 
2012-06-19 10:04:38 PM  

foreman3: So, is it an increase in the local taxes that I already pay by only .7%? Or is it another .7% of my gross income?

Cause I really CAN'T afford $900 more in taxes. Even if it's for the library, I am maxed out. Sorry


it was a .7% increase to the taxes, not a .7% tax
 
2012-06-19 10:04:43 PM  

Elzar: First off, not a tea-partier...

However I pay taxes for my cities' library and yet because I live less then 1/4mi outside of the city limits, I must pay $80 per year for a membership (on top of the % paid every year in property tax). Its bullshiat like this + the fact that libraries are becoming less and less relevant in the modern information age that I wouldn't feel bad about more of these libraries going out of business.


I couldn't care less if my local library closed. I've never found anything good that's inside of it other than some books they were selling at the annual book sale. In a nutshell I bought the books I wanted and the rest can burn.

Don't care.
 
2012-06-19 10:08:33 PM  
Will the book burning backfire? No, because there were no books burned. Get it?
 
2012-06-19 10:09:04 PM  
I'm not generally a fan of book burning, but sometimes...

thepoliticalcarnival.net
 
2012-06-19 10:10:35 PM  

Weaver95: NewportBarGuy: Can we just burn the Teabaggers?

they're soggy and don't burn very well.


You'll never see this, and I usually find your posts irritating. But, damn, I laughed. Out loud even.
 
2012-06-19 10:13:02 PM  

KidneyStone: Elzar: First off, not a tea-partier...

However I pay taxes for my cities' library and yet because I live less then 1/4mi outside of the city limits, I must pay $80 per year for a membership (on top of the % paid every year in property tax). Its bullshiat like this + the fact that libraries are becoming less and less relevant in the modern information age that I wouldn't feel bad about more of these libraries going out of business.

I couldn't care less if my local library closed. I've never found anything good that's inside of it other than some books they were selling at the annual book sale. In a nutshell I bought the books I wanted and the rest can burn.

Don't care.


"I got what I want, fark everyone else."

Glad to see you're contributing to the destruction of America. Hopefully your kind will be the first to die in the lawless riots.
 
2012-06-19 10:13:47 PM  

I_C_Weener: You want to save the library. Then name another budget cut. A local budget cut.


We'd have to see the local budget, wouldn't we?

The local government believes the library is the least important expenditure in the entire budget, since it must be the first thing cut. Based on the past similar situations (such as the Washington Monument being the least important line item in the entire Parks Department budget) I do not believe them. It's a sympathy play to increase taxes without reducing expenditures on the politician's pet projects.
 
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