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(The Advocate)   Kansas trying to re institute Jim Crow laws. Because 'religion'   (advocate.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Jim Crow laws, Kansas, Lawrence Journal-World, faiths  
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9274 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jun 2012 at 7:50 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-20 09:21:54 AM  
where's that graphic about states and google searches for "gay AND pron" ?
 
2012-06-20 09:33:49 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-06-20 09:35:54 AM  
I am the one, Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.

I twist the truth, I rule the world, my crown is called deceit
I am the emperor of lies, you grovel at my feet
I rob you and I slaughter you, your downfall is my gain
And still you play the sycophant and revel in my pain
And all my promises are lies, all my love is hate
I am the politician, and I decide your fate

I march before a martyred world, an army for the fight
I speak to great heroic days, of victory and might
I hold a banner drenched in blood, I urge you to be brave
I lead you to your destiny, I lead you to your grave
Your bones will build my palaces, your eyes will stud my crown
For I am Mars, the god of war, and I will cut you down.
 
2012-06-20 09:38:41 AM  
Heeeey, so since the law doesn't specify "gay/lesbian" but just in general religious belief, did they just legalize Shira law? I mean he does say right out:

"The question is personal belief as far as religion," she said. "Should that be trumped by forcing people to then support a lifestyle that they don't support due to their religion?"
 
2012-06-20 09:42:48 AM  

bgddy24601: Britney Spear's Speculum: spongeboob: kg2095: Maybe, but surely she should only worry about her own adherence to the rules of her religion. What other people do is none of her business

I take it you have never been around many evangelicals then?
Or the counter example atheist on Fark who claim that anyone who believes in an invisilbe sky wizard is either an idiot or mentally ill.

Yes because they're exactly the same. Every atheist on here is petitioning congress to force people to give up religion.


Go fark yourself.

He didn't say every atheist on Fark. He said the counter example atheist. I am sure there are many atheists on Fark who just come here to have fun, maybe kill some downtime at work, that kind of thing. Then there are some who jump at every opportunity to mock anyone who has faith and paints them all as intolerant assholes who can do nothing but hate. Kind of a pot / kettle thing. Maybe you should take a step back.

/Christian
//not evangelical
///I leave the judging to God and just try to love and respect everyone, you know, like JESUS said to do


Yeah, well, the counter-example atheist isn't in the state house legislating to force his beliefs on everyone else. When he is, your equivalency might hold some weight.
 
2012-06-20 09:43:30 AM  
STEP 1: Use the bible to validate saying being Gay/Lesbian is wrong
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

STEP 2: Using religious beliefs as a basis for justification to devalue and dehumanize gays/lesbians.
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

STEP 3: Now that they are considered less than human in Christian eyes...
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Kansas just enacted Step 2.
Validate, dehumanize, exterminate. Christinas are the Daleks of our reality.
 
2012-06-20 09:53:44 AM  

Bucky Katt: My religion requires the government to provide free pot to everyone. Anything else is a violation of my religious liberty.


When's mass? I'll bring the sacramental six pack.
 
2012-06-20 09:57:31 AM  
Meanwhile, in a Christian nation:

img.photobucket.com

img.photobucket.com
"Love knows no gender"
 
2012-06-20 09:59:42 AM  
Wait, which religion excuses bigotry?
 
2012-06-20 10:12:22 AM  

AtomicTwinkie: Validate, dehumanize, exterminate. Christinas are the Daleks of our reality.


Aguileras, Applegates, or Riccis?

/sorry
 
2012-06-20 10:12:27 AM  

Zeno-25: [i.imgur.com image 439x349]


Wow... GLBT loves to martyr themselves...
 
2012-06-20 10:15:19 AM  
I'm sure someone has pointed out this is from March and the bill died in commitee? RIght? and now we've moved on to a flowing philospohical conversation about the larger issues, and nobody thinks this is actually a possibility?

RELIGION OF PEA^H^H^HOLD NEWS
 
2012-06-20 10:21:08 AM  
Yeah, this is pretty much Romer v. Evans again. It's not quite the same (does not overrule local ordinances preventing discrimination against LGBTs for everyone, only for those who have a religious reason), but almost identical. In fact, the second-order discrimination based on religion inherent in the bill (you're allowed to discriminate if your religion objects, but you're not allowed to discriminate if your religion does not object) makes the bill even more suspect.

Have fun defending this one before the Supreme Court and losing, Kansas.
 
2012-06-20 10:27:54 AM  
Too tired to think up something witty to say, so religious bigots are religious bigots. As usual.
 
2012-06-20 10:28:54 AM  

bgddy24601: ///I leave the judging to God and just try to love and respect everyone, you know, like JESUS said to do


Yeah? And who is your god to judge us?

/People always say this like it's a good thing.
 
2012-06-20 10:29:18 AM  

Tyrano Soros: Wait, which religion excuses bigotry?


A tougher question is which doesn't.


Even Jainism thinks homosexuality is wrong.
 
2012-06-20 10:30:51 AM  
bullmurph.com
 
2012-06-20 10:34:20 AM  

0Icky0: bgddy24601: ///I leave the judging to God and just try to love and respect everyone, you know, like JESUS said to do

Yeah? And who is your god to judge us?

/People always say this like it's a good thing.


It is. It makes them feel the universe is fair, and it leaves me free from judgement.
 
2012-06-20 10:35:13 AM  

meow said the dog: The religion of me forbids me to pay taxes and requires me to have the public sexing. Thank you for starting this protection for me Kansas.

pizen: LasersHurt: Hey, guys, remember THE PAST? Good, because we're going back!

Great Scott!

Dred Scott!


Randolf Scott!

/♫Randolf Scott!♫
 
2012-06-20 10:37:45 AM  

fusillade762: While everyone's bashing Kansas, they're not quite the only state where you can be fired for being gay:

[standupforellen.jpg]



Am I helping if only part of me stands up for Portia?
 
2012-06-20 10:39:00 AM  

hourheroyes: meat0918: Lionel Mandrake: A message for Evangelicals from The Big Guy:

[skepchick.org image 222x150]
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG

Kansas is why God is punishing America.

Remember that whole "Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

Yeah, a whole lot of Christians are headed for Hell.

I like how you defend true Christianity by invoking eternal torture of people you disagree with.


If you consider that a defense of Christianity, and not the condemnation it is, well... I dunno what to say to that.
 
2012-06-20 11:01:28 AM  
sodomizers
 
2012-06-20 11:09:26 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: meow said the dog: The religion of me forbids me to pay taxes and requires me to have the public sexing. Thank you for starting this protection for me Kansas.

pizen: LasersHurt: Hey, guys, remember THE PAST? Good, because we're going back!

Great Scott!

Dred Scott!

Randolf Scott!

/♫Randolf Scott!♫



Ryhhhraruhh!
 
2012-06-20 11:14:06 AM  

colon_pow: sodomizers



Fun Fact: In biblical times, sodomizers were anyone that deviated from normal marital sexual relations, including adulterers.
Maybe we should make adultery illegal!
 
2012-06-20 11:16:22 AM  

colon_pow: sodomizers


Isn't it interesting, that so many Christians think the Sodomites were punished for being homosexual, to such an extent that the words have become almost synonymous?
The bible says that Jehova got angry with the people of Sodom because they were greedy, ungrateful, corrupt bastards, uncharitable to the poor and inhospitable to strangers. There's not one word about buggery in that story. There is a bit about Lot's daughters getting him drunk and having sex on him, but that's in the rarely mentioned Part II.
 
2012-06-20 11:16:37 AM  

liam76: Tyrano Soros: Wait, which religion excuses bigotry?

A tougher question is which doesn't.


Even Jainism thinks homosexuality is wrong.


Last time I checked, Jesus wasn't cool with it. Of course, the people wanting this law to pass may not consider themselves Christians.
 
2012-06-20 11:25:03 AM  
This is almost off topic but I never understood how any discrimination laws can really be enforced, especially ones involving hiring people. It's not like for every applicant for every job, there has to be a written explanation of why they weren't hired. So if it's down to two candidates and you picked one because he's white and you're a racist, you could just say that the white guy answered your bullshiat HR question better. How can you prove it was discrimination I guess is the point.
 
2012-06-20 11:43:06 AM  

Dansker: colon_pow: sodomizers

Isn't it interesting, that so many Christians think the Sodomites were punished for being homosexual, to such an extent that the words have become almost synonymous?
The bible says that Jehova got angry with the people of Sodom because they were greedy, ungrateful, corrupt bastards, uncharitable to the poor and inhospitable to strangers. There's not one word about buggery in that story. There is a bit about Lot's daughters getting him drunk and having sex on him, but that's in the rarely mentioned Part II.


19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom -both young and old-surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."


learn something every day
 
2012-06-20 11:51:30 AM  

liam76: Tyrano Soros: Wait, which religion excuses bigotry?

A tougher question is which doesn't.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-06-20 11:57:03 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Religion: using outdated fairy tales to justify hatred for at least 2,000 years.


4000. No reason to give the Jews and Hindus pass.
 
2012-06-20 12:06:25 PM  

colon_pow: Dansker: colon_pow: sodomizers

Isn't it interesting, that so many Christians think the Sodomites were punished for being homosexual, to such an extent that the words have become almost synonymous?
The bible says that Jehova got angry with the people of Sodom because they were greedy, ungrateful, corrupt bastards, uncharitable to the poor and inhospitable to strangers. There's not one word about buggery in that story. There is a bit about Lot's daughters getting him drunk and having sex on him, but that's in the rarely mentioned Part II.

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom -both young and old-surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."


Other translations have that as "...so we may know them." It must be annoying that one's god's inerrable words are so full of euphemisms.

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

That's not what made Jehova angry in the first place. That was just how they lost their last chance at forgiveness.
49 This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.
~Ezekiel 16


learn something every day

Being told that gay sex is like gang raping angels, is not exactly new. But I'm sure it would look great on a bumpersticker.
 
2012-06-20 12:21:39 PM  

LasersHurt: Hey, guys, remember THE PAST? Good, because we're going back!


Can we stop off in the mid 80's for a while? I wasn't old enough to go clubbing the first time around.
 
2012-06-20 01:17:54 PM  
...Did these people just miss out on the 'everyone's our friend and racism leads to the Holocaust' TV specials as kids or something? Seriously, what the fark is wrong with them?
 
2012-06-20 01:20:47 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: spongeboob: kg2095: Maybe, but surely she should only worry about her own adherence to the rules of her religion. What other people do is none of her business

I take it you have never been around many evangelicals then?
Or the counter example atheist on Fark who claim that anyone who believes in an invisilbe sky wizard is either an idiot or mentally ill.

Yes because they're exactly the same. Every atheist on here is petitioning congress to force people to give up religion.


Go fark yourself.


Right back at you jerk, I never said every atheist, I said the atheist who claim that anyone who believes in an invisible sky wizard is an idiot or mentally ill. If you can't see that some atheist are as obnoxious as the in your face Christians you are a farkward.
 
2012-06-20 01:23:26 PM  

Ed Grubermann: spongeboob: kg2095: Maybe, but surely she should only worry about her own adherence to the rules of her religion. What other people do is none of her business

I take it you have never been around many evangelicals then?
Or the counter example atheist on Fark who claim that anyone who believes in an invisilbe sky wizard is either an idiot or mentally ill.

Well, with those Evangelicals it's hard to come to any other conclusion.


Touche

Sabyen91: Britney Spear's Speculum: spongeboob: kg2095: Maybe, but surely she should only worry about her own adherence to the rules of her religion. What other people do is none of her business

I take it you have never been around many evangelicals then?
Or the counter example atheist on Fark who claim that anyone who believes in an invisilbe sky wizard is either an idiot or mentally ill.

Yes because they're exactly the same. Every atheist on here is petitioning congress to force people to give up religion.


Go fark yourself.

spongeboob is full of both sides are bad.


No I am saying that both sides have a share of arseholes
 
2012-06-20 01:36:25 PM  

Leader O'Cola: where's that graphic about states and google searches for "gay AND pron" ?


Google Insights has your back
 
2012-06-20 02:25:46 PM  

Dansker: Being told that gay sex is like gang raping angels, is not exactly new. But I'm sure it would look great on a bumpersticker.


those angels were probably some fine looking dudes.
 
2012-06-20 02:38:02 PM  

colon_pow: Dansker: Being told that gay sex is like gang raping angels, is not exactly new. But I'm sure it would look great on a bumpersticker.

those angels were probably some fine looking dudes.


Oh, give it up. Jahwe wanted the Sodomites dead, dead, dead before they even talked about "knowing angels", y'know what I mean, nudge-nudge, say no more.

But I'm sure it wasn't the lack of righteous folk or the intended rape, that lost them the appeal. It was the prospect of man-on-celestial-being-in-male-human-form sex. If those angels had only appeared in the shape of female humans, everything would probably have been cool with the big guy.
 
2012-06-20 05:08:11 PM  
Thesis: Any law that enforces an injustice or permits a crime violates the spirit and the letter of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not to mention the natural rights guaranteed by civil and criminal law..

Argument: The courts can not be used to inforce a contract that involves the commission of a crime and by extension, an injustice. Such contracts are nul and void in law and equity. Thus the courts can not be used to enforce a gambling debt because the an illegal debt is not binding. The 14th Amendment and the 10th Amendment were both written to ensure that things like Jim Crow Laws were explicitly unconstitutional and illegal.

U.S. Citizens are guaranteed equality before the law and a number of rights, including the right to life (unmolested), liberty (unrestrained by all but reasonable and necessary restrictions to provide for the common weal) and the pursuit of happiness (which at the time meant the natural state or condition of being or trying to be happy, prosperous and secure--it was not guaranteeing the mere wish or opportunity to be happy--it was guaranteeing the fact and substance of happiness, conceived as the natural, legal and God-sanctioned state of free humanity).

Jim Crow type laws, or laws permitting discrimination, or laws permitting or enjoining any injustice (including slavery, denial of citizenship, etc., which were more explicitly affirmed and addressed by the 10th and 14th Amenments among others) are ipso facto unconstitutional. The state does not have the right to rescend the natural rights assigned by the Bill of Rights or the Constitution and its Amendments. When the Constitution is itself amended to do an injustice or deny a right, it may be amended to correct this eggregious legislation, or the Courts may strike the amendment down.

In short, the Constitution exists to defend life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by American citizens and all other people who come under the protection of US courts, laws or power and this natural freedom and liberty can not be abridged, for the Constitution holds them to be pre-existant and "unalienable". No person may alienate his own rights (by selling himself into slavery, for example, however voluntarily the contract may be entered into, or by giving somebody power of attorney to kill herself illegally). No person's rights may be alienated by law, constitutional amendments or any other force or person. INALIENABLE MEANS INALIENABLE--the rights are inseparable from the natural born person, or human being. They would be inalienable from a non-human if sentient and moral.

Conclusion: In short, this law and similar laws that bigots, racists, homophobes and any other prejudiced and injust persons are attmepting to foist upon the American people under guise of piety, patriotism, or what not, are illegal and unconstitutional and violate the very foundation of constitutional, civil and criminal law.

Q.E.D.

There is no legal or moral grounds for denying human rights, civil rights, political rights, or any reasonable freedom or right to people on the basis of race, religion, sex, age, condition, class, sexual orientation or what not.

Remarks: The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms extends its guarantees explicitly to classes and groups of people not explicitly mentioned in the Charter. Under this clause, gays and lesbians obtained the same rights and duties as other Canadians.

The US Constitution did not extend these guarantees explicitly for the reason that at the time, the small coterie of upper class (and some middle class) men who wrote the Constitution were in disagreement on the issue of the rights and freedoms to be accorded to substantial parts of the population. Women did not have the vote and neither did men without real property, freehold. Slaves had no guarantee of rights despite there being no legal foundation for slavery--it being custom rather than a legal institution. Native peoples had no rights, immigrants could obtain the rights of a citizen for their children or by naturalization. But in time legislators, judges and executives of the U.S. Government and its sundry states came to understand and respect the universal rights of man as stated not only by American thinkers but also the French, British, other Europeans, etc.

The example of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms of Canadians is a good one. Rights and freedoms are rationally, logically and morally extensible despite being unalienable. We can grant new human rights but we can not deny them simply because they prove inconvenient or controversial.

I believe that human rights or other rights might reasonably be granted to Artificial Intelligences (including androids and computers), to Aliens (from other species on Earth or in the rest of the Universes of space and time) and possibly even to Corporations in some restricted cases (I am opposed to the Citizen's United decision because it not only goes too far in granting supposed rights to corporations, but actually reduces the rights of humans in favour of those of those who hide behind incorporation in management, ownership or control).

The attempt to define away gay rights is the thin edge of a wedge. Non-white Americans, immigrants, foreigners, and others are at risk if this becomes legal precedent. Who wants to live in a world where corporations are considered humans and abusively granted all the rights to "free speech" and such, and humans have no human rights? In reality, it is only a handful of fascists hiding behind corporations, churches, patriotism or other masks and shields.

There were legal reasons for extending some of the rights (and thus the duties) of humans to corporations but they are naturally limited and the Citizen's United Decision is one of the worst in the history of law let alone the SCOTUS. That it was lead by Justice Clarence Thomas, a moral non-entity, and Chief Justice Scalia, a thug, merely underscores its viciousness.

These abusive and unconstitutional attacks on identifiable groups of people mine the freedoms and liberties of all people in this world. The USA, after all, applies its laws extraterritorially with the gay abandon of the world's greatest historical empires. Injustice to some is injustice to all. Laws do not apply to individuals except in very limited and unusual circumstances: they apply to all within the reach of the courts, the police and various professional man-thieves and kidnappers who shall remain nameless, such as the nameless minions of CIA, Pentagon, Mossad, MI6, NSA, NSE, etc.

If the Law is injust, all are in danger.
 
2012-06-20 05:31:39 PM  

Dansker: 0Icky0: bgddy24601: ///I leave the judging to God and just try to love and respect everyone, you know, like JESUS said to do

Yeah? And who is your god to judge us?

/People always say this like it's a good thing.

It is. It makes them feel the universe is fair, and it leaves me free from judgement.


I appreciate you answering for me (or more to the point for all of us), but since he asked I'll try to answer anyway, speaking only for myself and not for all of Christianity (please forgive the exclusive use of the masculine pronoun. It's not about saying God is a male so much as it is easier than typing "He/She" every time):

1) He's not "my" God. He's God. I'm His.
2) As far as his right to judge, I believe that is what He does. I cannot claim to understand the mechanics of His decision making process. As a human I fall FAR short of being worthy of that.
3) I believe it is a good thing, because He wants us to join Him in heaven.

As far as it making us think the universe is fair, I can again only speak for myself when I say that I have never felt this way. And it doesn't leave anyone free from judgement. What it does is remind me that since I am not the one put in charge of judging others I would be best served not doing so. After all, as I said earlier I fall far short of being worthy because I sin. A lot. But through His Grace I am forgiven of that sin when I go to Him and earnestly repent (which is something that I do not do nearly as often as I should. Part and parcel of that whole "being a sinner" thing). What it DOES do is remind me that I am a poor sinner just like every other person on Earth and that I would be better served by keeping my own house and my own self in order.

Sorry if I rambled. It was not my intent. I believe that until someone is ready for their heart to receive The Word that all the witnessing and proselytizing in the world will do nothing except drive people further from Him. And no, I cannot explain why I believe what I believe. That is why it is called "faith".

I believe that these people who attack in the name of Christ are not Christians. They might be religious, but there is nothing Christ-like about their words or deeds.
 
2012-06-20 06:33:17 PM  

bgddy24601: Dansker: It is. It makes them feel the universe is fair, and it leaves me free from judgement.

As far as making us think the universe is fair, I can only speak for myself when I say that I have never felt this way.


But you believe your god is just and makes fair judgements, right? That evil is ultimately punished and virtue rewarded. That's what I meant.

And it doesn't leave anyone free from judgement.

It leaves me free from your judgement, and I don't believe there are any gods to judge me either now or after I die, so I'm good.

What it does is remind me that since I am not the one put in charge of judging others I would be best served not doing so.

And that's the good part, for which I'm grateful.

After all, as I said earlier I fall far short of being worthy because I sin. A lot. But through His Grace I am forgiven of that sin when I go to Him and earnestly repent (which is something that I do not do nearly as often as I should. Part and parcel of that whole "being a sinner" thing). What it DOES do is remind me that I am a poor sinner just like every other person on Earth and that I would be better served by keeping my own house and my own self in order.

I don't think you're a sinner or unworthy, and you shouldn't put yourself down like that. You're just human.

Sorry if I rambled. It was not my intent. I believe that until someone is ready for their heart to receive The Word that all the witnessing and proselytizing in the world will do nothing except drive people further from Him. And no, I cannot explain why I believe what I believe.

I believe that until people fully understand that we need to take care of each other, because there is no one else to do it, improvement of the human condition will be slow and fraught with setbacks. I believe this because I see a world full of evidence. Peace be with you.
 
2012-06-20 07:14:33 PM  

bgddy24601: I believe that these people who attack in the name of Christ are not Christians. They might be religious, but there is nothing Christ-like about their words or deeds.


On further thought, a few questions: Has it ever been Christian doctrine that you have to Christ-like to be Christian?
Isn't acceptance of anyone willing to declare belief an integral part of the whole "We're all sinners"-philosophy?
And wouldn't such a judgement (!) severely cut down on the official number of Christians? I can't recall ever seeing someone in real life e.g. abandon their possessions, give the shirt off their back to a needy person, turn the other cheek, or truly love their enemy.
 
2012-06-20 07:58:04 PM  

bgddy24601: I believe that until someone is ready for their heart to receive The Word that all the witnessing and proselytizing in the world will do nothing except drive people further from Him.


Translation: If you believe you will believe. And until you believe you will find our poor arguments to be ridiculous.
 
2012-06-20 08:49:20 PM  

Dansker: bgddy24601: I believe that these people who attack in the name of Christ are not Christians. They might be religious, but there is nothing Christ-like about their words or deeds.

On further thought, a few questions: Has it ever been Christian doctrine that you have to Christ-like to be Christian?
Isn't acceptance of anyone willing to declare belief an integral part of the whole "We're all sinners"-philosophy?
And wouldn't such a judgement (!) severely cut down on the official number of Christians? I can't recall ever seeing someone in real life e.g. abandon their possessions, give the shirt off their back to a needy person, turn the other cheek, or truly love their enemy.


I cannot say that it has ever been documented Christian doctrine, but the way I was raised was to follow His teachings and precepts, which leads one to strive to be Christ-like. Acceptance is part of the doctrine, but to my way of thinking acceptance is the opposite of judgement (and where a lot of people who use religion to oppress miss the mark in my opinion). It isn't on us to judge the veracity of the declaration. God knows. And I cannot recall anyone who has followed Christ's actions (since I am using my laptop while hosting trivia in a bar to respond to this I failed that one too). It just goes how far we fall short of the ideal and how much help we truly need every day.

0Icky0: bgddy24601: I believe that until someone is ready for their heart to receive The Word that all the witnessing and proselytizing in the world will do nothing except drive people further from Him.

Translation: If you believe you will believe. And until you believe you will find our poor arguments to be ridiculous.


And vice-versa I'm sure. :)

Actually what I mean is that you can't force someone to believe and you shouldn't try. By the same token you shouldn't try to break down someone else's belief system just because you don't believe it. Boundaries, man. Respect each other's boundaries. If someone wants to have a conversation with me about what I believe I will gladly have it with them. If they want to tell me what they believe I will gladly listen. I don't know if anyone's mind will be changed, but at least it's an ethos.
 
2012-06-20 09:46:14 PM  

bgddy24601: Actually what I mean is that you can't force someone to believe and you shouldn't try. By the same token you shouldn't try to break down someone else's belief system just because you don't believe it. Boundaries, man. Respect each other's boundaries


Very good. I agree.
I never argue religion with family members unless they try to impose something on me or make a terrible argument, based in religion, in a political or other debate.
And they extend the same courtesy to me.
And then we ride our motorcycles together and focus on the important things in life.
 
2012-06-21 02:10:57 PM  
I chuckle a bit because of those farkers who were commenting on how 'backwards' North Dakota was when some devout catholic business owners pushed to have a similar bill passed. The lawmakers in our state refused to pass it so it went to the the voters after the business owners had found enough signatures to get it on the ballot. It was voted on just a couple weeks ago and the bill failed with a very loud 'thud'.

Now I know it was the lawmakers who passed the bill in Kansas, not the voters, but I would hope that the voters get a say in repealing this.

/and laugh at ND all you want, at least we didn't pass this 'religious protections' crap.
 
2012-06-21 05:52:42 PM  

liam76: Tyrano Soros: Wait, which religion excuses bigotry?

A tougher question is which doesn't.


Even Jainism thinks homosexuality is wrong.


what does scientism have to say about it?

atheism??

i guess the only group that can play innocent is agnosticism (aka "is homosexuality a good thing? meh i don't know and neither does anyone else...)

meh
 
2012-06-21 06:05:16 PM  

bgddy24601: 1) He's not "my" God. He's God. I'm His.
2) As far as his right to judge, I believe that is what He does. I cannot claim to understand the mechanics of His decision making process. As a human I fall FAR short of being worthy of that.
3) I believe it is a good thing, because He wants us to join Him in heaven.


1) you're His god?
2) you fall short of being able to judge? you don't understand the mechanics of judgement??

bgddy24601: And no, I cannot explain why I believe what I believe. That is why it is called "faith".


actually that is called "ignorance" you really ought to avoid confusing those terms, some people might think you're being serious

bgddy24601: What it does is remind me that since I am not the one put in charge of judging others I would be best served not doing so.


ya know it's people like you that fuel the stupidity behind macros like this:

i.imgur.com
 
2012-06-21 07:09:37 PM  

I drunk what: bgddy24601: 1) He's not "my" God. He's God. I'm His.
2) As far as his right to judge, I believe that is what He does. I cannot claim to understand the mechanics of His decision making process. As a human I fall FAR short of being worthy of that.
3) I believe it is a good thing, because He wants us to join Him in heaven.

1) you're His god?
2) you fall short of being able to judge? you don't understand the mechanics of judgement??

bgddy24601: And no, I cannot explain why I believe what I believe. That is why it is called "faith".

actually that is called "ignorance" you really ought to avoid confusing those terms, some people might think you're being serious

bgddy24601: What it does is remind me that since I am not the one put in charge of judging others I would be best served not doing so.

ya know it's people like you that fuel the stupidity behind macros like this:

[i.imgur.com image 500x547]


Luckily some people have no problem passing judgement.
 
2012-06-21 11:50:16 PM  

I drunk what: bgddy24601: 1) He's not "my" God. He's God. I'm His.
2) As far as his right to judge, I believe that is what He does. I cannot claim to understand the mechanics of His decision making process. As a human I fall FAR short of being worthy of that.
3) I believe it is a good thing, because He wants us to join Him in heaven.

1) you're His god?
2) you fall short of being able to judge? you don't understand the mechanics of judgement??

bgddy24601: And no, I cannot explain why I believe what I believe. That is why it is called "faith".

actually that is called "ignorance" you really ought to avoid confusing those terms, some people might think you're being serious

bgddy24601: What it does is remind me that since I am not the one put in charge of judging others I would be best served not doing so.

ya know it's people like you that fuel the stupidity behind macros like this:

[i.imgur.com image 500x547]



I honestly laughed at this.
 
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