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(Talking Points Memo)   John Boehner a few months ago: HA, we killed the Dream Act. John Boehner today: Why did Obama kill the Dream act?   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 129
    More: Dumbass, Boehner, dreams, President Obama  
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3695 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jun 2012 at 3:54 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-19 04:26:34 PM
Way to link to a one sentence headline rather than the actual article Submitard.
 
2012-06-19 04:26:49 PM

InmanRoshi: karnal: I am having problems seeing any cons to the Dream Act. If you have lived here most of your life.....have graduated from high school/GED then why not? I realise that both sides are using this for political ends....but still.

It used to be something that had some modicum of GOP support. It was originally proposed by Orin Hatch in 2001. It was re-introduced in 2007, co-sponsored by Charles Hagel and Richard Lugar, and had the support of of Several GOP Senators.

But now it's simply dead in the water because they can't let sekret kenyan mooslem "win" something.


right hand passes, left hand stops, blame the other guy...
 
2012-06-19 04:28:27 PM
It's a saying isn't it, about process arguments versus value arguments. I'm drawing a blank.
 
2012-06-19 04:28:45 PM
InmanRoshi
karnal: I am having problems seeing any cons to the Dream Act. If you have lived here most of your life.....have graduated from high school/GED then why not? I realise that both sides are using this for political ends....but still.

It used to be something that had some modicum of GOP support. It was originally proposed by Orin Hatch in 2001. It was re-introduced in 2007, co-sponsored by Charles Hagel and Richard Lugar, and had the support of of Several GOP Senators.

But now it's simply dead in the water because they can't let sekret kenyan mooslem "win" something.



I think we have a real problem with our borders and I am all for building a fence to keep illegals (and criminals) out - but let's look at making the process to become American easier.....but I can not see punishing the young kids who has been here most of their life and are, for all purpose, Americans.
 
2012-06-19 04:32:45 PM

qorkfiend: They're put in the difficult position of either taking an unpopular stand, or publicly agreeing with Obama.


Don't they have...you know...a conservative stance on the issue already? Not just the opposite of Obama on every single farking thing?

That's the thing that bugs me the most about our 21st century Republicans. At least the Republicans of yore would argue against things with a conservative philosophy, now they're just reactionary arseholes who don't even have a point, or even a vision of what they want done in America.

And they have a legion of followers.
 
2012-06-19 04:36:52 PM
Go ahead John, cry.
 
2012-06-19 04:37:06 PM

karnal: I think we have a real problem with our borders and I am all for building a fence to keep illegals (and criminals) out - but let's look at making the process to become American easier.....but I can not see punishing the young kids who has been here most of their life and are, for all purpose, Americans.


Hmmmmm, that's a very interesting post. Watch out, karnal, you might be the next right-leaning Farker to be called a RINO by the League of Fail.
 
2012-06-19 04:39:27 PM

borg: The Dream Act passed the house and was killed in the Senate. Democrats control the Senate.


huh? Have you not been around the last 3 years to witness the non-stop fillibuster from the GOP? The Dems have never "controlled" the Senate. That's just a scapegoat.
 
2012-06-19 04:39:57 PM

Esc7: qorkfiend: They're put in the difficult position of either taking an unpopular stand, or publicly agreeing with Obama.

Don't they have...you know...a conservative stance on the issue already? Not just the opposite of Obama on every single farking thing?

That's the thing that bugs me the most about our 21st century Republicans. At least the Republicans of yore would argue against things with a conservative philosophy, now they're just reactionary arseholes who don't even have a point, or even a vision of what they want done in America.

And they have a legion of followers.


How could they NOT be against everything Obama proposes? The man is simultaneously a fascist, communist, secret Muslim, and a radical black Christian! He's an arrogant pussy who MURDERED the world's most wanted man, without trial, in front of his family in-between stops on his wrldwide apology and bowing tour. And on top of all that, he's the most liberal lib ever!
 
2012-06-19 04:40:17 PM

spiderpaz: Does he ACTUALLY think the American people are THAT stupid/naive/memory-challenged? Oh yeah, right - they are, so he'll probably get away with it.


If only we had an Institution, let's call it a Fourth Estate, (after the French Parliament called the Estates General which had three houses one for the people, one for the nobility, and one for the Church) Who felt that it was its job to keep the people informed and educated and so as part of thier job did real research and "reporting" and wrote stories calling out politicians and public officals that lied, and then supplied thier readers with facts to prove it.

I know, but I can dream can't I?
 
2012-06-19 04:41:33 PM

vernonFL: stoli n coke: The weeping cheeto is a well documented alcoholic

You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) just how many lawmakers are alcoholics. I bet it is higher than the rate of alcoholism among the general public.


I woudn't be. I'm betting 80%.
 
2012-06-19 04:43:13 PM

Magorn: spiderpaz: Does he ACTUALLY think the American people are THAT stupid/naive/memory-challenged? Oh yeah, right - they are, so he'll probably get away with it.

If only we had an Institution, let's call it a Fourth Estate, (after the French Parliament called the Estates General which had three houses one for the people, one for the nobility, and one for the Church) Who felt that it was its job to keep the people informed and educated and so as part of thier job did real research and "reporting" and wrote stories calling out politicians and public officals that lied, and then supplied thier readers with facts to prove it.

I know, but I can dream can't I?


But what if that's like...hard work. And expensive. And not that profitable. I think society would be better served with more entertaining reality shows. Don't worry, someone else will do it, right?
 
2012-06-19 04:52:45 PM
I see borg has had his/her ass handed to him/her... and he/she is nowhere to defend his/her post.
 
2012-06-19 04:53:36 PM
So how is he not saying "Well now that Obama is for it we can't support it anymore! ...Oh and so that's Obama's fault!"
 
2012-06-19 04:58:37 PM
Really Admins, The linked item is a tweet and not actually an article quoting Boner?
 
2012-06-19 04:58:42 PM

karnal: but let's look at making the process to become American easier.....but I can not see punishing the young kids who has been here most of their life and are, for all purpose, Americans.


That's actually a refreshing post coming from you. You didn't insult anybody ("dims, durr hurr hurr") just for the lulz, and managed to make a point that I agree with.

Border fences, OTOH, have proven time after time to be ineffective, and throwing more money at better fences (maybe with alligator pits or something?) is just like flushing money down the toilet.
 
2012-06-19 04:58:46 PM

hugram: I see borg has had his/her ass handed to him/her... and he/she is nowhere to defend his/her post.


I don't think you understand how the borg trolls work...
 
2012-06-19 04:59:22 PM
That's how his mind works:

www.yourfunnystuff.com
 
2012-06-19 05:00:05 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: vernonFL: stoli n coke: The weeping cheeto is a well documented alcoholic

You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) just how many lawmakers are alcoholics. I bet it is higher than the rate of alcoholism among the general public.

I woudn't be. I'm betting 80%.


The general general public or the fark general public? I have to assume the fark general public rate of alcoholism would give congress a run for their money.
 
2012-06-19 05:03:19 PM

max_pooper: Uchiha_Cycliste: vernonFL: stoli n coke: The weeping cheeto is a well documented alcoholic

You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) just how many lawmakers are alcoholics. I bet it is higher than the rate of alcoholism among the general public.

I woudn't be. I'm betting 80%.

The general general public or the fark general public? I have to assume the fark general public rate of alcoholism would give congress a run for their money.


Alcoholics go to meetings. Fark is full of drunks.
 
2012-06-19 05:06:44 PM
"There's always hope," Boehner said in April. "I did talk to Senator Rubio about his idea, and he gave me some particulars about how this would work. I found it of interest. But the problem with this issue is that we're operating in a very hostile political environment and to deal with a very difficult issue like this I think it would be difficult at best."


Did this clown just say that the reason we cannot deal with immigration reform right now is that it's too hard? Smh.
 
2012-06-19 05:07:16 PM

borg: The Dream Act passed the house and was killed in the Senate. Democrats control the Senate.


10/10. You got like 20 bites. Amazing.
 
2012-06-19 05:12:53 PM

borg: The Dream Act passed the house and was killed in the Senate. Democrats control the Senate.


You know who I know you know nothing about the legislative process?
 
2012-06-19 05:13:37 PM

Craptastic: Border fences, OTOH, have proven time after time to be ineffective, and throwing more money at better fences (maybe with alligator pits or something?) is just like flushing money down the toilet.


They will cost over a TRILLION dollars. It's funny the same guys talking about government waste and say government can't do anything right also want to spend a trillion dollars for a stupid fence.

Actually Obama should put the fence up for a vote as a stimulus measure. that would be hilarious to watch the GOP head's asplode in being against it even though they've begged for it for so long.
Oh and pay for it all in tax hikes on the rich!!!
 
2012-06-19 05:14:39 PM
He's only saying he supports it now because the media has pointed out that Our Lord God Reagan supported something similar back in the 80's.
 
2012-06-19 05:15:40 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: "There's always hope," Boehner said in April. "I did talk to Senator Rubio about his idea, and he gave me some particulars about how this would work. I found it of interest. But the problem with this issue is that we're operating in a very hostile political environment and to deal with a very difficult issue like this I think it would be difficult at best."


Did this clown just say that the reason we cannot deal with immigration reform right now is that it's too hard? Smh.


LEADERSHIP!!!

Funny they go "Well why doesn't Obama lead on X, he lacks leadership". Then when Obama does it's "Obama poisoned the well because he came out for X".
 
MFL
2012-06-19 05:15:41 PM
Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.

If you are an Obama supporter, you should be embarrassed that your president is so politically weak, that he has violate the constition just to pull petty shiat like this just to keep a few hispanic voters from leaving him like everyone else. The funny part is he would probably have benefited more politically by signing Rubio's bill and not coming across as the partisan douche that he is.

That President Obama is a piece of work.
 
2012-06-19 05:16:58 PM

qorkfiend: They're put in the difficult position of either taking an unpopular stand, or publicly agreeing with Obama.


Bingo. Their "difficult position" is that they lost quite a bit of political leverage when Obama published the DHS directive. Their backs have been put to the wall, and so they're trying to save whatever face they can while attempting to blame Obama for their own political failures.
 
2012-06-19 05:17:29 PM

RumsfeldsReplacement: borg: The Dream Act passed the house and was killed in the Senate. Democrats control the Senate.

10/10. You got like 20 bites. Amazing.


Stupidity and lying, either intentional or true, should never be applauded.

So fark him.
 
2012-06-19 05:17:49 PM

MFL: Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.

If you are an Obama supporter, you should be embarrassed that your president is so politically weak, that he has violate the constition just to pull petty shiat like this just to keep a few hispanic voters from leaving him like everyone else. The funny part is he would probably have benefited more politically by signing Rubio's bill and not coming across as the partisan douche that he is.

That President Obama is a piece of work.


That was a lot of stupid, packed into such a small and impotent post.
 
2012-06-19 05:17:58 PM

Geotpf: This move from Obama couldn't have worked out any better for him and his party.

1. It gets Latinos to the ballot box to pull the D lever come November
2. It basically torpedos any chance of Rubio being the VP nom
3. A few Republicans look like racist asshats
4. A few non-racist asshat Republicans get to fight with the racist asshats in a nice little GOP civil war
5. Romney's wishy washy non-position on the topic looks amazingly weak
6. Boeher's flip flopping here looks boner-rific
7. The "generic consensus" position on the topic in the country overall gets pushed leftward

Bulleye. Home run. Critical hit. Touchdown. A++++ will troll again.

[mk-event.se image 500x318]


Obama's long con is finally starting to payoff it seems.
 
2012-06-19 05:18:49 PM

MFL: Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.

If you are an Obama supporter, you should be embarrassed that your president is so politically weak, that he has violate the constition just to pull petty shiat like this just to keep a few hispanic voters from leaving him like everyone else. The funny part is he would probably have benefited more politically by signing Rubio's bill and not coming across as the partisan douche that he is.

That President Obama is a piece of work.


Oh look, MFL trying to spin a politically embarrassing situation for the Republicans as "Obama's weak."

Dontcha just love it when those on the Right are put between a rock and a hard place?
 
2012-06-19 05:22:59 PM

MFL: Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.

If you are an Obama supporter, you should be embarrassed that your president is so politically weak, that he has violate the constition just to pull petty shiat like this just to keep a few hispanic voters from leaving him like everyone else. The funny part is he would probably have benefited more politically by signing Rubio's bill and not coming across as the partisan douche that he is.

That President Obama is a piece of work.


You know who else doesn't want somebody to get any credit for anything? Politics is politics don't ya know.
 
2012-06-19 05:22:59 PM

Craptastic: Border fences, OTOH, have proven time after time to be ineffective,


Pretty much. Unless you go to USSR levels ala the Berlin Wall, and some people even got through THAT. And that requires a level of brutality and cost that I doubt most Americans would accept.
 
2012-06-19 05:26:44 PM

Felgraf: Craptastic: Border fences, OTOH, have proven time after time to be ineffective,

Pretty much. Unless you go to USSR levels ala the Berlin Wall, and some people even got through THAT. And that requires a level of brutality and cost that I doubt most Americans would accept.


I'm glad you stuck that "most" in there. I'm quite sure a majority of the borderwatch militia nutjobs would have no problem with the border being a free fire zone.
 
2012-06-19 05:27:18 PM

Felgraf: Craptastic: Border fences, OTOH, have proven time after time to be ineffective,

Pretty much. Unless you go to USSR levels ala the Berlin Wall, and some people even got through THAT. And that requires a level of brutality and cost that I doubt most Americans would accept.


Oh I don't know... the American people seem to have become increasingly accepting of acts that would be more at home in a brutal dictatorship. Look at Gitmo and "enhanced interrogation". Baby steps... that's the secret.
 
2012-06-19 05:28:57 PM

Mercutio74: Oh I don't know... the American people seem to have become increasingly accepting of acts that would be more at home in a brutal dictatorship. Look at Gitmo and "enhanced interrogation". Baby steps... that's the secret.


Milgram Experiment. They can't see the enhanced interrogation, so ti's easier for them to accept and bow to authority. When it's out in the open (people shot and left to die, etc.), it's harder for people to shrug their shoulders.

/Not impossible.
//Just a bit harder.
 
2012-06-19 05:30:12 PM

Felgraf: Mercutio74: Oh I don't know... the American people seem to have become increasingly accepting of acts that would be more at home in a brutal dictatorship. Look at Gitmo and "enhanced interrogation". Baby steps... that's the secret.

Milgram Experiment. They can't see the enhanced interrogation, so ti's easier for them to accept and bow to authority. When it's out in the open (people shot and left to die, etc.), it's harder for people to shrug their shoulders.

/Not impossible.
//Just a bit harder.


Couching it in an "us vs. them" mentality helps. It's ok, as long as it only happens to them.
 
2012-06-19 05:30:19 PM

Fart_Machine: cabbyman: Asking questions of the president is frowned upon as it may put them in a position where they have to take a stand or make a definitive statement.

We can't have that.

Damn lazy trolls can't even post in the right thread.


I assume he's referring to presidential candidate Romney.
 
2012-06-19 05:30:23 PM

Felgraf: Mercutio74: Oh I don't know... the American people seem to have become increasingly accepting of acts that would be more at home in a brutal dictatorship. Look at Gitmo and "enhanced interrogation". Baby steps... that's the secret.

Milgram Experiment. They can't see the enhanced interrogation, so ti's easier for them to accept and bow to authority. When it's out in the open (people shot and left to die, etc.), it's harder for people to shrug their shoulders.

/Not impossible.
//Just a bit harder.


Most of the nut jobs that approve of this would volunteer to be the ones shooting people in the street is my guess.
 
2012-06-19 05:32:47 PM

Felgraf: Milgram Experiment. They can't see the enhanced interrogation, so ti's easier for them to accept and bow to authority. When it's out in the open (people shot and left to die, etc.), it's harder for people to shrug their shoulders.

/Not impossible.
//Just a bit harder.


Fair enough, but don't you think that there'd also be a "no man's land" on the US side of the border too? I doubt they'd install bleachers, at least when I run this thought experiment.

Also, my understanding of Milgram was that it showed people are more likely to submit control to an authority figure when pressured rather than use their own morality. Which would actually increase the support for a Berlin Wall style border.
 
2012-06-19 05:32:55 PM

MFL: Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.


Well, that certainly explains why everyone in the GOP is currently leaping at the chance to take credit for this decision.

Oh wait...
 
2012-06-19 05:34:31 PM

qorkfiend: Felgraf: Mercutio74: Oh I don't know... the American people seem to have become increasingly accepting of acts that would be more at home in a brutal dictatorship. Look at Gitmo and "enhanced interrogation". Baby steps... that's the secret.

Milgram Experiment. They can't see the enhanced interrogation, so ti's easier for them to accept and bow to authority. When it's out in the open (people shot and left to die, etc.), it's harder for people to shrug their shoulders.

/Not impossible.
//Just a bit harder.

Couching it in an "us vs. them" mentality helps. It's ok, as long as it only happens to them.


It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

Terry Pratchett, Jingo
 
2012-06-19 05:41:59 PM

Rwa2play: MFL: Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.

If you are an Obama supporter, you should be embarrassed that your president is so politically weak, that he has violate the constition just to pull petty shiat like this just to keep a few hispanic voters from leaving him like everyone else. The funny part is he would probably have benefited more politically by signing Rubio's bill and not coming across as the partisan douche that he is.

That President Obama is a piece of work.

Oh look, MFL trying to spin a politically embarrassing situation for the Republicans as "Obama's weak."

Dontcha just love it when those on the Right are put between a rock and a hard place?


The hilarious ( to me) thing is that Republicans could totally derail Obama by passing the dream act through the house and senate. No problem since they were going to do that anyways (right!).

1) It would deflate any bump President Obama got from Hispanics
2) It would destroy the narrative that congress is blocking him reflexively.

But they won't do it because...
3) the tea party nutters will turn on them
 
2012-06-19 05:43:30 PM

Mercutio74: Also, my understanding of Milgram was that it showed people are more likely to submit control to an authority figure when pressured rather than use their own morality. Which would actually increase the support for a Berlin Wall style border.


Aye, but there were some variations on the Milgram experiment (can see the person being 'hurt', authority-figure not in room, etc etc.), and among others, *seeing* the person made people less likely to continue.

/What can I say, I'm a cynical optimist at times.
 
2012-06-19 05:46:28 PM

MFL: Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.

If you are an Obama supporter, you should be embarrassed that your president is so politically weak, that he has violate the constition just to pull petty shiat like this just to keep a few hispanic voters from leaving him like everyone else. The funny part is he would probably have benefited more politically by signing Rubio's bill and not coming across as the partisan douche that he is.

That President Obama is a piece of work.




That's funny, because in April Boehner said that even Rubio's watered down version of DREAM didn't have a chance in hell of seeing the light of day in his Congress.
 
2012-06-19 05:48:09 PM

Felgraf: Aye, but there were some variations on the Milgram experiment (can see the person being 'hurt', authority-figure not in room, etc etc.), and among others, *seeing* the person made people less likely to continue.

/What can I say, I'm a cynical optimist at times.


Hmmm... interesting, I'm going to have to go and google "Variation Milgram Experiment".

But I guess we now know that if there are cameras on the wall, the recordings will be top secret.
 
2012-06-19 05:53:57 PM

Aldon:
The hilarious ( to me) thing is that Republicans could totally derail Obama by passing the dream act through the house and senate. No problem since they were going to do that anyways (right!).

1) It would deflate any bump President Obama got from Hispanics
2) It would destroy the narrative that congress is blocking him reflexively.

But they won't do it because...
3) the tea party nutters will turn on them


i.ytimg.com
 
2012-06-19 05:56:16 PM

Rwa2play: MFL: Politics is politics.

1. There is more than one version of the "dream act"
2. Bill are shot down, revised and then brought back up for a vote all the time.
3. The latest version of this was going to be brought up in the senate by Senator Rubio.
4. This bill would have passed and would be one of the few times in the Obama presidency that bipartisanship actually happened.
5. The president decided to violate the seperation of powers only to accomplish the same damn thing the bill was going to.....because he didn't want Rubio getting credit.

If you are an Obama supporter, you should be embarrassed that your president is so politically weak, that he has violate the constition just to pull petty shiat like this just to keep a few hispanic voters from leaving him like everyone else. The funny part is he would probably have benefited more politically by signing Rubio's bill and not coming across as the partisan douche that he is.

That President Obama is a piece of work.

Oh look, MFL trying to spin a politically embarrassing situation for the Republicans as "Obama's weak."

Dontcha just love it when those on the Right are put between a rock and a hard place?


Actually, I'm reminded of an anecdote used by Frank Herbert in one of his Dune books.

Someone is relaying a story about how they once witnessed a group of boys corner a scrawny and weak looking dog. When faced with death, the dog tore through the group, seriously injuring all but one of the boys. The moral was something basic, like never underestimate a cornered beast, because when you have nothing left to lose, that is when you are at your most dangerous.

I guess what I am saying is, when the Republicans have nothing left to lose, what will they do?
 
2012-06-19 06:03:59 PM

Felgraf: And that requires a level of brutality and cost that I doubt most Americans would accept.


How many Americans do you know? We'd turn it into a primetime reality show. Sponsored by Budweiser. Or Miller 64. You know, because there's running involved.
 
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