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(CNBC)   There's a firing at Penney's   (cnbc.com) divider line 37
    More: Fail, J.C. Penney, Mr. Johnson  
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5539 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Jun 2012 at 12:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-19 09:17:40 AM  
Damn you Ellen! It's all your fault!
 
2012-06-19 09:35:43 AM  
I read this article a while back on why that Fair and Square pricing campaign probably wasn't going to work.

"The problem, though, may be that when no game is being played, it's impossible for a shopper to tell if and when she is winning. And so, perhaps she decides to go play (i.e., shop) in another store or online, where the games are more lively, or at least where it's clear there's a game going on.

Soon after JCPenney's announced changes made a splash in the news, consumer psychologist Kit Yarrow told me that she was rooting for JCPenney's new approach - because all the pricing games really are quite silly - but was skeptical that it would work in the marketplace. "In some way, we all derive value from an item's original price. It's very hard to internally know how much something is worth otherwise," Yarrow said. "Without the big markdown, there's no urgency to make a purchase today. People tend to use sales to rationalize buying things that, frankly, they probably don't need. If you can't say, 'But I got it on sale,' you're likely to feel guilty about purchasing it."

Another expert explained to the Times that, despite proclamations of wishing retailer games would disappear, many shoppers love the thrill of hitting the racks in the quest to snag the best deals:

"I think it underestimates what a sport discount hunting is," Mark Ellwood, author of "Chasing the Sale," a coming book on discounting, said of coupon hunters. "They're like mathletes with credit cards."
 
2012-06-19 09:55:22 AM  
From audio consultant at Pacific Stereo to CEO of JCPenney. Way to go Ron.
 
2012-06-19 10:41:11 AM  
Doesn't everyone walk around with their smart phones and check prices online as they browse in stores?

I blame the marketing Executive of JC Penney.
 
2012-06-19 12:29:49 PM  
That's too bad, I was in Penney's yesterday and got some sandals for my son at a good price. They seemed to be doing decent business for first thing on a Monday morning, too. It's funny because I never used to even think to shop at Penneys till all the furor over Ellen and the families used in their advertisements, and now I feel more likely to shop there because people I don't like are boycotting it.
 
2012-06-19 12:36:56 PM  

badscooter: From audio consultant at Pacific Stereo to CEO of JCPenney. Way to go Ron.


You won't get this kind of bass without the TK421 modification.
 
2012-06-19 12:48:24 PM  
Stupid gullible people. I regularly turn down 50% discounts at department stores unless I really need something because I know that's the price it is most of the time and it's still cheaper at Target and the intertubes.
 
2012-06-19 12:52:57 PM  
Me John... Big Tree.

The tower? The tower?

Rapunzel! Rapunzel!
 
2012-06-19 01:03:29 PM  
Well, first, the dinosaurs came...
 
2012-06-19 01:11:56 PM  
While I appreciate the ad campaign and JC Penny royal 'fark you' to the AFA - the simple fact is that these people:

www.glaad.org

would never set foot in a JC Penny.
 
2012-06-19 01:14:42 PM  
Looks like Steve Jobs' method of running a company has rubbed off on Ron Johnson:

If it's a bad idea, berate the person who thought of it & fire them.

If it's a good idea, berate the person who thought of it, then "come up" with the idea on your own a little while later & take full credit.

If the good idea turns out badly, berate the person who thought of it & fire them.

It worked for Jobs, it works for Johnson.
 
2012-06-19 01:19:18 PM  

schattenteufel: It worked for Jobs, it works for Johnson.


Johnson is the one who berated Jobs that the initial store concept was shiat, Jobs yelled at him, called him later, said he was right, and they started over from scratch.

/but haters gotta hate I suppose
 
2012-06-19 01:20:16 PM  
How long until all three members of One Million Moms takes credit?
 
2012-06-19 01:29:50 PM  
Where did you get that dress? It's awful! And those shoes, and that coat, jeeeeez!
 
2012-06-19 01:39:29 PM  

gingerjet: schattenteufel: It worked for Jobs, it works for Johnson.

Johnson is the one who berated Jobs that the initial store concept was shiat, Jobs yelled at him, called him later, said he was right, and they started over from scratch.

/but haters gotta hate I suppose



You're absolutely right, and I'm actually not a hater.
I admire Jobs' "style," as it were. Somehow, even though he was a tyrant to work with, he appreciated when people stood up to him the way Johnson did, and the people he berated often admitted that they did their best work under him & because of him.
Maybe some day this "scapegoat" at JCP will come back & show Johnson a thing or two, to make the circle complete.
 
2012-06-19 02:05:04 PM  
What? You mean the pretentious replacement of the term "sale" with "Month long values" announced with a confusing focus on 'getting rid of "sales" at JC Penney' was a disaster?

You don't say!
 
2012-06-19 02:14:21 PM  
Dumbass soccer moves love thinking they're "getting a deal" so I knew this premise was never going to work.
 
2012-06-19 02:16:00 PM  
Soccer moms* Wow I need to lay off the kush so early in the morning.
 
2012-06-19 02:47:14 PM  
So what's the Fark consensus? Is JCP going to rebound or are they a'swirling?
 
2012-06-19 03:05:07 PM  

Sybarite: I read this article a while back on why that Fair and Square pricing campaign probably wasn't going to work.

"The problem, though, may be that when no game is being played, it's impossible for a shopper to tell if and when she is winning. And so, perhaps she decides to go play (i.e., shop) in another store or online, where the games are more lively, or at least where it's clear there's a game going on.

Soon after JCPenney's announced changes made a splash in the news, consumer psychologist Kit Yarrow told me that she was rooting for JCPenney's new approach - because all the pricing games really are quite silly - but was skeptical that it would work in the marketplace. "In some way, we all derive value from an item's original price. It's very hard to internally know how much something is worth otherwise," Yarrow said. "Without the big markdown, there's no urgency to make a purchase today. People tend to use sales to rationalize buying things that, frankly, they probably don't need. If you can't say, 'But I got it on sale,' you're likely to feel guilty about purchasing it."

."


I think this is the reason that the everyday low pricing thing will fail. There is no sense of urgency to buy, since you know that the price will be just as low next week. I've bought a lot of clothes from Jacques Penney' because they have tall-man sizes, decent quality, and reasonable pricing. But now that I know that the prices are going to be low every day, I don't go in there thinking that I should buy five t-shirts at a time since they are on sale. I'll buy the one that I came in for, but that is it.

I do hope they stick with the low price thing, because the sale game is a joke. But I fear that they will go back to marking their shirts at $40 so they can sell them "on sale" for $19.99
 
2012-06-19 03:25:02 PM  

gingerjet: While I appreciate the ad campaign and JC Penny royal 'fark you' to the AFA - the simple fact is that these people:

[www.glaad.org image 600x350]

would never set foot in a JC Penny.


I actually went into a Pennys the other day for the first time in years, in large part because of this ad. Target didn't have what I wanted (some jean shorts) and I wouldn't have even thought of going there if I hadn't heard of all the controversy. Ended up buying a couple of pairs and metaphorically pissing on a bunch of bigots.
 
2012-06-19 04:09:25 PM  
I like the everyday low prices approach, but as a heterosexual 36 year old male, I just don't buy enough clothes to support this kind of policy. I've purchased 2 shirts in the last 6 months. And they came from Kohls because I had a gift card.
 
2012-06-19 04:20:40 PM  
I've never understood how penneys stays in business. I mean, not that their stuff is bad or anything, I just honestly have no idea what they have, I've never been in one, nor does anyone I know shop in one. I have never heard someone say, "Hey, i got this awesome deal on pants in penneys!"

Yet there are a bunch around me.

I wonder if its just old fogie holdouts, like my grandmother who refused to continue to shop at macy's after they changed the name from bamburgers.
 
2012-06-19 05:03:53 PM  
Well let's see. I try to avoid commercials at all costs but some got through to even me. Their first commercial campaign was just people screaming while standing at their mailboxes. That's it. No context. I didn't even know who was doing the advertising. Then it went downhill from there. So I would blame the marketing weasels third, the people who hired the marketing weasels second and the CEO first.
 
2012-06-19 06:53:23 PM  

12349876: Stupid gullible people. I regularly turn down 50% discounts at department stores unless I really need something because I know that's the price it is most of the time and it's still cheaper at Target and the intertubes.


Same reason why I now avoid going out of business sales. Sure it is now all 65% off. But they jacked the base price up to 2× that of MSRP.

The wife really wanted to hit the closing sale for the Great Indoors. Every time we found something we liked, I'd check the price using the Red Laser app on my smartphone. Everything came up cheaper somewhere else. We walked out of the store without buying anything.

While Red Laser doesn't do it, I like web sites that keep a one year history of an item's price. You can always watch it climb before Black Friday, only to go on sale for what it was two months earlier. I hate sales.
 
2012-06-19 07:34:41 PM  

Rickj: I think this is the reason that the everyday low pricing thing will fail. There is no sense of urgency to buy, since you know that the price will be just as low next week.


Many stores exist only for this principle - sales get people to buy extra shiat they don't need.

People don't really do this at the Apple store.
 
Slu
2012-06-19 10:13:23 PM  

LineNoise: I've never understood how penneys stays in business. I mean, not that their stuff is bad or anything, I just honestly have no idea what they have, I've never been in one, nor does anyone I know shop in one. I have never heard someone say, "Hey, i got this awesome deal on pants in penneys!"

Yet there are a bunch around me.

I wonder if its just old fogie holdouts, like my grandmother who refused to continue to shop at macy's after they changed the name from bamburgers.


I like JC Penney. I get a lot of my business casual work clothes from Penneys.
 
2012-06-19 11:56:42 PM  
I don't know what to make of this.
 
2012-06-20 12:14:21 AM  

NewWorldDan: I like the everyday low prices approach, but as a heterosexual 36 year old male, I just don't buy enough clothes to support this kind of policy. I've purchased 2 shirts in the last 6 months. And they came from Kohls because I had a gift card.


As a heterosexual 39 year old male, I hate the 'game'. I look at the final price and that is it. All the previous prices and markdowns are just sales gimmicks and are complete fiction. But we aren't the target demographic, so the fact we prefer honesty in prices is irrelevant.

The psychologists are right. Most consumers like 'winning' the 'sale' 'game'. I hope Penney's can make this work, but I doubt it will.
 
2012-06-20 12:25:28 AM  

clear_prop: NewWorldDan: I like the everyday low prices approach, but as a heterosexual 36 year old male, I just don't buy enough clothes to support this kind of policy. I've purchased 2 shirts in the last 6 months. And they came from Kohls because I had a gift card.

As a heterosexual 39 year old male, I hate the 'game'. I look at the final price and that is it. All the previous prices and markdowns are just sales gimmicks and are complete fiction. But we aren't the target demographic, so the fact we prefer honesty in prices is irrelevant.

The psychologists are right. Most consumers like 'winning' the 'sale' 'game'. I hope Penney's can make this work, but I doubt it will.


Well as a 38 year old female I like this pricing structure, mostly because I hate the bargain basement, dig through the clearance rack crap. It's something I used to do when I was a broke ass teenager. Now that I have a career and I'm old my time is worth more than the couple dollars I save spending an hour trying to find a deal.
 
2012-06-20 06:33:57 AM  

Plush_Cthulhu: clear_prop: NewWorldDan: I like the everyday low prices approach, but as a heterosexual 36 year old male, I just don't buy enough clothes to support this kind of policy. I've purchased 2 shirts in the last 6 months. And they came from Kohls because I had a gift card.

As a heterosexual 39 year old male, I hate the 'game'. I look at the final price and that is it. All the previous prices and markdowns are just sales gimmicks and are complete fiction. But we aren't the target demographic, so the fact we prefer honesty in prices is irrelevant.

The psychologists are right. Most consumers like 'winning' the 'sale' 'game'. I hope Penney's can make this work, but I doubt it will.

Well as a 38 year old female I like this pricing structure, mostly because I hate the bargain basement, dig through the clearance rack crap. It's something I used to do when I was a broke ass teenager. Now that I have a career and I'm old my time is worth more than the couple dollars I save spending an hour trying to find a deal.


If you're only saving a few dollars an hour and you're not broke-dick poor, why waste time and gas and everything else to save $5? If you're not poor, stop acting like you are and perpetuating the problem.
 
2012-06-20 09:19:46 AM  
Department stores - even in "good malls" - smell like decaying carpet. Those stores are mostly 20-30 years old. A hotel/motel that hasn't been renovated in 20 years smells similar...there's only so much carpet shampooing can do.

Malls in general are empty most of the year except for Christmas season and weekends.
 
2012-06-20 11:58:28 AM  
i highly prefer the everyday low price approach. its too bad it didn't work for them.

a quick comparison of macys vs jcpenny for men's levis shows a sale price of $43 at Macys (marked down from $60) vs $40 from jc penny (no markdown)
 
2012-06-20 12:29:33 PM  
When they went to the every day low price scheme I knew they were doomed. Customers want things to be on "sale". It's a simple as that. Sears tried that and it blew up in their face. I can't figure out how Penney's would think it was going to work this time.
 
2012-06-20 04:28:27 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Doesn't everyone walk around with their smart phones and check prices online as they browse in stores?


It's totally in line with my view of the American consumer that they would use an overpriced, discretionary piece of technology to check on minor savings on necessity items. Kind of like their buying a $40,000 SUV and then biatching when gas goes up a quarter.
 
2012-06-20 04:35:46 PM  

trippdogg: It's totally in line with my view of the American consumer that they would use an overpriced, discretionary piece of technology to check on minor savings on necessity items


Your argument falls apart if the technology was primarily purchased for another reason.

"Hey, my smartphone which I bought to make phone calls, play music and use as a GPS map also has this handy feature to look up pricing at no extra charge. Score!"
 
2012-06-20 05:36:42 PM  
If you haven't been in a JCP since things changed, it's worth checking out. There's no "sales and clearance" but there is everyday, month, and best. With month being monthly promotions (right now it's Father's Day stuff) and best being final markdown.

Stuff is also very fairly priced. JCP wants you to come to their store when you need something. Rather than shopping random stores hoping to hit a sale, you go directly to Penney's, know that what you're paying is equivalent to 55% off at Kohl's, and make your purchases there.

They are also opening a ton of Sephora inside JCP, and those stores make girls crazy.

I think JCP will turn this around and come out on top.
 
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