God Is My Co-Pirate: RibbyK: onecanshort: So since i put my kid in daycare I'm a bad parent?

When you employ a serrogate to parent your kid, you're no longer the parent, right?
Bad? Stay tuned, you'll know in 18 years.

Of course, and hiring a cleaner means that I no longer own clean a house.

FTFY

Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

gweilo8888: As somebody who is a stay-at-home, work-at-home Dad... getting a kick, etc. etc.

/Now back to working a fulltime job and cleaning up after a three year old.

Mine's only 3 months old... and he just started formula, so his poop just became a stenchful mess... I'm hoping that it gets less time-intensive by the time he can hold his own bottle. But then he'll probably be throwing jello all over the house, making it a different sort of time-intensive.

/also getting a kick, what with your etcs, and etcs.

I have been a house-dad for ten years.

It has its moments.

It also has its ennui.

And no, you don't have lots of free time. It's enormously time-and-effort intensive.

.

Howlin Mad Murphy: Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

Very good, you'll get some with that one.

FizixJunkee: technicolor-misfit: FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?


Women.

You want to see how much women REALLY respect stay-at-home parenting, and how tough it is, listen to them talk about stay-at-home dads.

The very best your likely to get out of most women is something like:

"I don't see anything wrong with it. I wouldn't want it personally. But if it works for another couple, more power to them."

You're more likely to hear words like "deadbeat," especially of you're talking about real life, specific stay-at-home-dads.

That's why I don't get to bent out of shape about the idea of women making less money than men. They generally have more life options, and as long they expect men to be the breadwinners and assume that their mates should make more money than they do, then they themselves are keeping conventional gender roles alive.

Want to be equal? Then you've got to be equal.



Bull-farking-shiat. I'm a woman who would love to have my husband be a stay-at-home parent. It's my husband's dream job, as a matter of fact. I imagine I should get pretty good job offers once I finish my PhD; with any luck, I'll earn enough that Hubby and quit working, or at least only work part-time.


And I'm a southerner who's not racist. That must mean racism isn't a common attitude in the south.

I applaud your open-mindedness and forward thinking, but the reality is that the idea of house-husbands and stay-at-home dads has not generally been met with acceptance by women. I'd be amazed if it's better than 50-50.

Howlin Mad Murphy: Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

Myself? I have a second kid in preschool, only half days. I try to get to the gym, rarely, and I do the volunteer medic thing now here on base.

But without that? Cleaning the house, paying bills, planning babysitting with other parents for this and that, grocery shopping, making meals, bathing kids, nightly homework...

It's damn exhausting.

DeltaPunch: In theory raising children leaves you with plenty of time to meet personal goals, finish that novel, etc., but the reality is that some people use that downtime to relax and recuperate instead. Consequently, lazier parents claim that raising children is a full time job, in order to feel better about their own failures.

Discuss.

/runs away giggling

Niiiiiiiiiiice trollbait!

TenuredPirate: gweilo8888: As somebody who is a stay-at-home, work-at-home Dad... getting a kick, etc. etc.

/Now back to working a fulltime job and cleaning up after a three year old.

Mine's only 3 months old... and he just started formula, so his poop just became a stenchful mess... I'm hoping that it gets less time-intensive by the time he can hold his own bottle. But then he'll probably be throwing jello all over the house, making it a different sort of time-intensive.

/also getting a kick, what with your etcs, and etcs.

At about age five or six, it becomes time and effort intensive in different ways. You spend the time they are in school furiously running errands and cleaning and fixing stuff and so on, then it's getting them to do homework, keeping them outdoors rather than on the xbox, taking them to ballet and hockey and so on, cooking, listening to whining, counseling them about how to knock the shiat out of bullies when the ref--er, teacher isn't looking. . . .

.

Shadowknight: How would you suggest we get our kids home, short of a transatlantic cruise ship?

Transatlantic booze cruise ship.

Because I'm generally a shiatty kid person, the time I was off work and at home just about drove me and my kids insane. Don't get me wrong, I love my kids, but for about 4 or 5 hours in a row, at a time. Our relationship improved dramatically once I went back to work full-time.

When my son was born, my wife stayed with him for the first 6 months of mat leave, and she complained: "You get to go out and have adult conversations and i'm stuck here with the kid." Dinner was never ready, the house was never clean, and she was always grumpy.

Then i took 6 months of parental leave and, when she came home from work, she'd complain: "You get to stay here and have fun with him while i have to go out and work." Dinner was always ready, the house was always spotless, and the two boys were always happy.

He's 6 now. His mom and i are happily divorced, with 50/50 custody. Now, life is good.

This morning I got up at 5 am to have a run, came back and walked the dog, fed the fish, made lunch for the kid (including a muffin I baked yesterday), made breakfast, got the kid to the bus, brought the girlfriend tea in bed and then hauled my ass out the door for my AM commute to the office, where i worked a full day (and then some ... just finished now).

I'm a happy dude. I do, however, get the urge to punch Sarah Jessica "I don't know how she does it" Parker right in the flank. Women don't have a monopoly on caring parenting, or balancing work and family life.

In my experience, however, many of them DO excel at griping about it.

Geez ... if you're a parent, take time to just enjoy the ride. It's short enough.

Inconceivable!: Very good, you'll get some with that one.

Quiet fignuts!

DeltaPunch: Shadowknight: How would you suggest we get our kids home, short of a transatlantic cruise ship?

Transatlantic booze cruise ship.

OK, that's actually pretty good...

frostus: I keep telling my wife to get a promotion at work so I can retire and become a stay-at-home dad. She keeps pointing out that the kids are all grown and have moved out.

Doesn't seem like a problem to most "stay-at-homes."

D'awww, Sad tag is SAD! Hey Subby, is raising your own goddamn kids too girly for your fragile little penis to stand? Do you long for the days when the men were men and the women knew their place?

Fark being a stay-at-home dad. I want to marry a woman rich enough so that we BOTH can stay home and raise the kids.

/or send them to boarding school so we can travel the world
//and they can become wizards

get real: I can't decide if you are a troll

snuff3r: AbbeySomeone: It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.

*yaaaaaaawn* 1/10

My kid has been in daycare since 6 months old. Now seven, he's polite, healthy, lives under a solid roof, has a good education to date, has two loving parents who give him every ounce of time and attention he asks for, is well behaved, etc. Most of his friends he's known since daycare, from 1yo onward, etc.

Meanwhile, most of the kids i've met who have never been to daycare and were starved of an early education and a chance to develop social skills are some of the worst behaved kids i've ever met. No social skills, bullies, mentally inept and incapable of dealing with the world.

People like you are boring, the same sort of morons that complain about the existence of kids in the first place.

To recap, a child is likely to have these traits
a) badly behaved, with no social skills
b) a bully
c) mentally inept
d) incapable of dealing with the world

If they've never had
1) daycare
2) early education
3) chance to develop social skills

I'm wondering if you could get 2) an early education and a 3) chance to develop social skills without attending daycare, say, with a dedicated full-time, stay-at-home Mom? Sounds like daycare gave your six year old many sophisticated life skills, including the capacity to "deal with the world". Many farkers must've never attended daycare.

As a man who tries to be invovled with his girlfriend's kids as much as possible I can say with absolute certainty that looking after them takes a lot more out of me than working. Granted, I have a VERY easy job that earns just over minimum wage, and granted I do have fun playing games with her kids. That being said, I despise cooking and cleaning to the point that I'd rather spend 41 hours at work to save myself from the 15-20(minimum) hours of cleaning and cooking required to keep a house in relatively good order with a 4 year old home all day and a 10 year old in the home half the day.

Still though, society SHOULD be organized in a fashion that those that excel at looking after 5 brats at the same time so both parents can work should be doing over half of the babysitting. Daycare should be free on days that both parents have worked. As it is, it costs so much for daycare where I live that a person is literally better off living on social assistance, raising their own toddler, than getting a 10 dollar per hour job with a kid in daycare even with the subsidies in place.

If you're a sculpter, this is a perfect set up. Good for him being proud. Reminds me of Bernie in the Bernie Mac show

snuff3r: AbbeySomeone: It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.

*yaaaaaaawn* 1/10

My kid has been in daycare since 6 months old. Now seven, he's polite, healthy, lives under a solid roof, has a good education to date, has two loving parents who give him every ounce of time and attention he asks for, is well behaved, etc. Most of his friends he's known since daycare, from 1yo onward, etc.

Meanwhile, most of the kids i've met who have never been to daycare and were starved of an early education and a chance to develop social skills are some of the worst behaved kids i've ever met. No social skills, bullies, mentally inept and incapable of dealing with the world.

People like you are boring, the same sort of morons that complain about the existence of kids in the first place.

THIS. kids in daycare know how to get along with other people. kids whose parents dote on them all day every day are generally spoiled little shiats. just my and my friends personal observations, but i'd love to see studies on this.

Hermione_Granger: Wow, so glad to see what has been traditionally "woman's work" described as a "downward spiral" for men.

What an unenlightened ass you are subby.

awww feelings get hurt?

Howlin Mad Murphy: Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

Laundry. farking laundry.

Howlin Mad Murphy: Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

you mow the lawn and clean.

You cook and clean out the basement-garage-closets.

You create a happy, clean, welcoming home for your children and spouse to come home to.

You can also hang with your peeps, get high and collect a check while making your way thru the strange in the neighborhood.

I'm doing the stay at home dad thing while I day trade and manage rental properties. My wife is a RN.

The rigorousness housewives report is exaggerated. It is easy, sorry ladies. I even throw in being the landscaper too. I don't clean to my wife's standards but it just gets dirty again right away any how.

My main problem is having no personal social life so I'll probably start a business or play sports or something when my daughter gets old enough for school. The other downside is that it can make one self-conscience. "What do you do?" questions and assumptions and that I don't have a career. It is true that my resume is busted now, but I made more money in the past 3 years than any office job could. I doubt any middle manager type interviewing me will ever give me credit though.

BlippityBleep: THIS. kids in daycare know how to get along with other people. kids whose parents dote on them all day every day are generally spoiled little shiats. just my and my friends personal observations, but i'd love to see studies on this.

Interesting. My parents and grandparents didn't go to daycare and didn't turn out spoiled shiats.

Just might have more to do with how the child is raised then where.

Shadowknight: Howlin Mad Murphy: Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

Myself? I have a second kid in preschool, only half days. I try to get to the gym, rarely, and I do the volunteer medic thing now here on base.

But without that? Cleaning the house, paying bills, planning babysitting with other parents for this and that, grocery shopping, making meals, bathing kids, nightly homework...

It's damn exhausting.

OK. So... If you clean the house everyday that should take what, 30 minutes to an hour to keep up? Paying bills, 30 minutes a month? Grocery shopping, 2 hours a week unless you are terrible at it? Making meals, hour or two a day if that? Bathing kids, another 20-30 minutes per day? Nightly homework, 20 minutes to an hour?

Please, spout off that horseshiat to people with no kids and get a round of applause. Then get off your ass and contribute something to society.

/Didn't mention planning babysitting because that has to be a joke, why the fark would you need a babysitter as a stay at home lazy ass parent?

Does anyone in a family with both parents working actually buy any of this shiat? I'm not your gullible husband or wife, I know you're full of it. Thanks for playing.

I want to tuck you with your animals.

technicolor-misfit: And I'm a southerner who's not racist. That must mean racism isn't a common attitude in the south.

I applaud your open-mindedness and forward thinking, but the reality is that the idea of house-husbands and stay-at-home dads has not generally been met with acceptance by women. I'd be amazed if it's better than 50-50.

Among the women I know---generally educated, white or Asian women in the West Los Angeles and Santa Monica areas---I would say there's significant acceptance of stay-at-home fathers, certainly far more than 50%. During the nearly four years I did the stay-at-home parent thing, I never once encountered a derogatory comment about stay-at-home dads. Not once. Not at any parent-and-me class, or My Gym class, or YMCA class. And, yes, there were lots of stay-at-home dads represented in these classes.

WhippingBoy: I'm a work at home, part stay at home dad. My wife handles the morning routine and taking the kids to school. I handle everything else:
- working 8-10 hours a day at my day job
- picking the kids up from school
- meal planning
- grocery shopping
- cooking dinner (wife usually handles breakfast and lunch)
- cleaning the house
- doing my own laundry (wife does her own and the kids)
- mowing the lawn
- collecting and taking out the garbage and recycling
- household repairs
- taking the car in for service
- paying the bills & keeping track of finances
- miscellaneous chores
- taking the kids to dance lessons and soccer (wife handles to doctor and dentist)

It's not that bad, although some days are easier than others. If I didn't have the day job on top of all this, it would be almost trivial; anyone who complains that being a stay at home mom (or dad) is "hard" is just a whining slacker.

/ take it from me

So what the hell does your wife do?

Who farkin cares which one stays home to take care of the kid? What is this, 1950? fark off, subby.

This is me. This is what happens when an archaeologist marries a doctor. It's not that I mind being a stay-at-home-dad, but I sure do miss working.

/I get to go back to work next year!
//I'm so whipped.

I am fortunate enough to work from my home office. I wish my son, who is with me 4 days of the week, could stay with me during the day, but someone demands he go to daycare everyday at an expense of $900 a month so he can be socialized. What a crock.

/not bitter

WhippingBoy: Howlin Mad Murphy: Does anyone in a family with both parents working actually buy any of this shiat? I'm not your gullible husband or wife, I know you're full of it. Thanks for playing.

What shiat are you talking about specifically?

This

Shadowknight: Howlin Mad Murphy: Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

Myself? I have a second kid in preschool, only half days. I try to get to the gym, rarely, and I do the volunteer medic thing now here on base.

But without that? Cleaning the house, paying bills, planning babysitting with other parents for this and that, grocery shopping, making meals, bathing kids, nightly homework...

It's damn exhausting.

And This

Notabunny: Shadowknight: Howlin Mad Murphy: Seriously, what does the stay at home parent do after the kid starts all day kindergarten or first grade? Sit on their ass all day and tell their friends how tough their "job" is?

Myself? I have a second kid in preschool, only half days. I try to get to the gym, rarely, and I do the volunteer medic thing now here on base.

But without that? Cleaning the house, paying bills, planning babysitting with other parents for this and that, grocery shopping, making meals, bathing kids, nightly homework...

It's damn exhausting.

You know what? By the time both kids are in full-time school, the at-home parent deserves a break. I've said a lot of stupid things in my life, but by far the stupidest was when I told my wife, "I'm going to take a couple weeks off work and show you how this job is done." I told Mrs 'Bunny that by 5:00 I'd have the kids clean, the laundry folded and put away, the dishes in the cupboard, and a hot dinner on the table. I was an idiot. I think it was 3 days before I had time to brush my teeth. I learned that no matter how much I want to biatch about work, I still have the luxury of talking with adults, an hour to myself to eat, or read, or pick my nose, or shiat, or stare mindlessly at the wall, or whateverthehell I feel like doing, PLUS I get the Godsent luxury of at least 2 additional breaks to do nothing more than drink a cup of coffee. I know that now. I cherish my daily luxuries. And now that both my kids are in school full-time, I will gladly make any sacrifice to afford Mrs 'Bunny the chance to relax which I selfishly took for granted, and which she earned literally through years of blood, sweat, and tears. Baby, you earned it. Any man who says otherwise, isn't man enough to walk the walk. -end csb/rant


And all the other variations of the over-hyped nonsense they claim is so tough about staying at home.

Mr. Morgantx and I decided long ago that I would be the housewife and he would be the breadwinner. We went through a period early in our relationship where I was the breadwinner and he was the SAHD to three school-aged children (during summer break!). That lasted about a month. It was nice, though. I got to see how stressful it can be to be the sold source of support for the family and how exhausting it would be if I had to go out into the world and work full-time. I hated it. On the other hand, he got to see what REALLY goes on during the day when you're home with little ones all the time. The result has been that we've both gained a much greater appreciation of one another.

That being said, I have a dear friend that is a SAHD to his 18MO. He's disabled (knee injury, and he's a skilled tradesman, so that knee injury disqualifies him from a lot of the work that he's trained to do) and his wife has always been the primary breadwinner for the family even before they had kids. She spent about 3 months out of work on maternity leave and went absolutely stir-crazy. It works for them. It wouldn't work in MY house, but it works for them.