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(Yahoo)   The Downward Spiral: Is Dad the New Mom? The rise of stay-at-home fathers   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 287
    More: Sad, stay-at-home dad, Nightline, Surfside, California, age discrimination, Jake Howard-Potter  
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6283 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2012 at 10:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-18 09:18:52 PM
In theory raising children leaves you with plenty of time to meet personal goals, finish that novel, etc., but the reality is that some people use that downtime to relax and recuperate instead. Consequently, lazier parents claim that raising children is a full time job, in order to feel better about their own failures.

Discuss.

/runs away giggling
 
2012-06-18 09:51:57 PM
It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves.

/doesn't apply to welfare Mothers that continue to drop them out like kittens and expect the state to take care3 of them while they appear on Springer.
 
2012-06-18 09:57:56 PM

AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves


Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?
 
2012-06-18 09:59:31 PM
www.theaterofthecommonman.com
 
2012-06-18 10:02:46 PM
Any rich hotties out there looking for house-husband - feel free to contact me
 
2012-06-18 10:03:08 PM

FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?


It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.
 
2012-06-18 10:09:05 PM
The Downward Spiral: The last good Nine Inch Nails album.
 
2012-06-18 10:11:27 PM

AbbeySomeone: FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?

It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.


Or don't have them or delay having them until you can (afford to) properly care for them.
 
2012-06-18 10:12:39 PM
Hey, they are talking about me.

/job became a part-time volunteer gig
 
2012-06-18 10:12:55 PM
Been a stay-at-home dad and primary caregiver since '98. My boys are effing awesome.

Who do I blame?
 
2012-06-18 10:13:34 PM
We plan to transition to that. Two young kids now, one due in a few months. I work full time and she works from home to stay with the kids. We work our schedule so that she can go to school on my days off. She is going for her ND and once achieved we plan to reverse roles. She would be the breadwinner, I would be the housewife, err househusband.
 
2012-06-18 10:14:06 PM

phrawgh: AbbeySomeone: FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?

It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.

Or don't have them or delay having them until you can (afford to) properly care for them.


So then only the wealthy can have children?
 
2012-06-18 10:14:07 PM
So since i put my kid in daycare I'm a bad parent?


ooookay.
 
2012-06-18 10:14:11 PM
I was a Stay at Home Dad for 7 years, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies....
 
2012-06-18 10:14:41 PM
What's so downward about it subby? I'd be happy to stay at home and raise my kids if my wife made enough to support us. She already makes more than me and when I was just recently changing jobs I was telling her exactly this. No overworked day care raising the kid for me, a chance to teach the kid things I know and have time to have pretty much the best garden ever? WTF is so terrible about that?

Is this one of those manhood things where guys with really fragile masculinity think something isn't "manly" enough just because it makes them feel like less of a man?
 
2012-06-18 10:14:53 PM

FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?


It makes a hell of a lot more sense for the lawyer parent to go to the office and the sculptor to stay home.
 
2012-06-18 10:15:41 PM
Stay at home Dad here of a 18mo. old. Company allows me to work nights from home.
Wouldn't change it for the world.


Are you crazy? You don't feed a baby chili.
 
2012-06-18 10:15:48 PM

FormlessOne: Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?


It doesn't matter, whoever stays home full time with a toddler is going to end up a blubbering idiot if they never interact with adults.
 
2012-06-18 10:15:54 PM
I think the studies are saying men raise children who are more productive, goal oriented citizens and women raise children who are more empathetic. That's assuming the parent is a good one. Some 'family' expert said that on the radio. He made it make sense at the time...
 
2012-06-18 10:17:38 PM

phrawgh: Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.
Or don't have them or delay having them until you can (afford to) properly care for them.


This.
 
2012-06-18 10:17:40 PM
Only you can answer that.


onecanshort: So since i put my kid in daycare I'm a bad parent?


ooookay.

 
2012-06-18 10:18:07 PM
Wow, so glad to see what has been traditionally "woman's work" described as a "downward spiral" for men.

What an unenlightened ass you are subby.
 
2012-06-18 10:18:35 PM
I'm a stay at home Dad... I also freelance as an artist as well. It isn't a job... it's life, and I enjoy it.
 
2012-06-18 10:18:58 PM
I've often thought of switching careers with my wife. She is a stay at home mom and I'm out in the workaday world.

I haven't ever come home after a long day at the office or visiting customers to find her anything less than exhausted. She's so tired. She's so busy.

As if I'm any less tired or less busy.

It's surprising how busy she is, considering the kid is off at school for half the day, the house is a mess, and food isn't ready when I get home. Maybe it's all the time she spends on the phone with her friends or out having "mommy lunches" with them.

I can see how that could be exhausting.
 
2012-06-18 10:19:18 PM
My 6 year old daughter travels with me during the summer while I serve summonses. We practice her math and spelling. She has seen more of this state than any of her peers. She learns about how and why people fail.


She can also call 911 in the event that I get shot.
 
2012-06-18 10:19:46 PM

FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?



Women.

You want to see how much women REALLY respect stay-at-home parenting, and how tough it is, listen to them talk about stay-at-home dads.

The very best your likely to get out of most women is something like:

"I don't see anything wrong with it. I wouldn't want it personally. But if it works for another couple, more power to them."

You're more likely to hear words like "deadbeat," especially of you're talking about real life, specific stay-at-home-dads.

That's why I don't get to bent out of shape about the idea of women making less money than men. They generally have more life options, and as long they expect men to be the breadwinners and assume that their mates should make more money than they do, then they themselves are keeping conventional gender roles alive.

Want to be equal? Then you've got to be equal.
 
2012-06-18 10:19:50 PM
As somebody who is a stay-at-home, work-at-home Dad... getting a kick, etc. etc.

/Now back to working a fulltime job and cleaning up after a three year old.
 
2012-06-18 10:20:34 PM
Hey, subtard! Why did this get the sad tag?
 
2012-06-18 10:21:46 PM

onecanshort: So since i put my kid in daycare I'm a bad parent?


ooookay.


Hell, it's my second week back on the job after my year's mat leave, and I couldn't be happier. fark guilt and fark these sexist bullshiat stories. The dads I know are awesome, whether they're at home or not.
 
2012-06-18 10:22:46 PM

mat catastrophe: phrawgh: AbbeySomeone: FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?

It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.

Or don't have them or delay having them until you can (afford to) properly care for them.

So then only the wealthy can have children?


What do you consider wealthy?

Do you think taxpayers should support people so they can have kids? Do you think it is fair to the children to be shuffled off to a daycare center 10-12 hours a day because both parents need to work?

It would be easy to argue that the most successful in our society have a better chance at procreation and successful offspring.

/also, move close enough to grandma's house so you can visit without having to board a plane - at least till the little tykes are old enough to fly.
 
2012-06-18 10:22:55 PM
My sister is a teacher, my brother in law owns a landscaping business. They more or less take shifts. Sometimes it seems like my nephew will turn out OK, but sometimes I'm really worried that disaster is upon us. I have built an underground shelter just in case. It really is part of a downward spiral. It all started when the devil women suggested positions other than God sanctioned missionary. It seemed innocent enough but it was obviously a ploy to subjugate men and destroy our culture. Women are using appropriate channels to advocate respect and equal pay... FOR NOW! If this isn't stopped right away, there will be roves of amazon gangs patrolling the post-apocalyptic streets for the resistance, those few men who dare to take a place out of the kitchen, those few who dare say NO to casual violation. PLEASE SAVE US, ARBITRARY SOCIAL NORMS, DEAR GOD SAVE US
 
2012-06-18 10:23:56 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: I've often thought of switching careers with my wife. She is a stay at home mom and I'm out in the workaday world.

I haven't ever come home after a long day at the office or visiting customers to find her anything less than exhausted. She's so tired. She's so busy.

As if I'm any less tired or less busy.

It's surprising how busy she is, considering the kid is off at school for half the day, the house is a mess, and food isn't ready when I get home. Maybe it's all the time she spends on the phone with her friends or out having "mommy lunches" with them.

I can see how that could be exhausting.


Gangbangs can take a lot out of a gal.
 
2012-06-18 10:24:15 PM
Is Dad the New Mom?

No.

Nor is red the new black, beer the new wine, or anything the new anything else. STFU.
 
2012-06-18 10:24:39 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. Who cares who's at home with the kids? The stereotypes are alive and well, though. I'm a dad and have two kids, 3 and 19 months old, and have been doing this for about two years now. Yet friends and family will often use terms such as "househusband" and "bum" and "wife" and the like, but come on, seriously? These insults are pathetic. I make more money than my wife and I just work out of the house. Granted, I made twice as much when I held a full-time job and had my side business on top of that, but what more could a parent ask for? I get to make good money from home, no commute, no sitting in a cube or on a computer, and before my kids even start going to school I'm home with them and taking them to preschool soccer and music classes, and spending most days with them.

Not sure why people can frown upon that simply because it's dad and not mom at home, but it's probably just jealousy. I mean, if I was spending 50 hours a week at the office making a modest living and basically only seeing my kids a few hours each night before bed and on the weekends, I'd be pretty uptight as well.
 
2012-06-18 10:25:29 PM

tankjr:

Gangbangs can take a lot out of a gal.


I would think they put a lot in.
 
2012-06-18 10:26:27 PM

onecanshort: So since i put my kid in daycare I'm a bad parent?


When you employ a serrogate to parent your kid, you're no longer the parent, right?
Bad? Stay tuned, you'll know in 18 years.
 
2012-06-18 10:26:35 PM

skantea: I think the studies are saying men raise children who are more productive, goal oriented citizens and women raise children who are more empathetic. That's assuming the parent is a good one. Some 'family' expert said that on the radio. He made it make sense at the time...


I didn't read the whole thing, but here is some study info on how parents influence their kids' social skills -- for those who have all night to read it.
 
2012-06-18 10:27:18 PM

One Bad Apple: tankjr:

Gangbangs can take a lot out of a gal.

I would think they put a lot in.


The 2nd law of Thermodynamics is a cruel master, but fair.
 
2012-06-18 10:27:36 PM
I keep telling my wife to get a promotion at work so I can retire and become a stay-at-home dad. She keeps pointing out that the kids are all grown and have moved out.
 
2012-06-18 10:28:02 PM

technicolor-misfit: FormlessOne: AbbeySomeone: It seems like a perfect arrangement for them. If you plan to have a child and take responsibility for the way it grows up, plan to take time out of your busy schedule to actually raise it yourselves

Indeed. I do so love the whole "downward spiral" spin subby put on this, though - it ties into the whole conservative "OMG! Women aren't submissive, men aren't dominant - something is WRONG!" silliness rather nicely. The article also touches on some of that hidebound behavior.

Here's a thought - who cares which partner stays home?


Women.

You want to see how much women REALLY respect stay-at-home parenting, and how tough it is, listen to them talk about stay-at-home dads.

The very best your likely to get out of most women is something like:

"I don't see anything wrong with it. I wouldn't want it personally. But if it works for another couple, more power to them."

You're more likely to hear words like "deadbeat," especially of you're talking about real life, specific stay-at-home-dads.

That's why I don't get to bent out of shape about the idea of women making less money than men. They generally have more life options, and as long they expect men to be the breadwinners and assume that their mates should make more money than they do, then they themselves are keeping conventional gender roles alive.

Want to be equal? Then you've got to be equal.




Bull-farking-shiat. I'm a woman who would love to have my husband be a stay-at-home parent. It's my husband's dream job, as a matter of fact. I imagine I should get pretty good job offers once I finish my PhD; with any luck, I'll earn enough that Hubby and quit working, or at least only work part-time.
 
2012-06-18 10:28:20 PM

AbbeySomeone: It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.


*yaaaaaaawn* 1/10

My kid has been in daycare since 6 months old. Now seven, he's polite, healthy, lives under a solid roof, has a good education to date, has two loving parents who give him every ounce of time and attention he asks for, is well behaved, etc. Most of his friends he's known since daycare, from 1yo onward, etc.

Meanwhile, most of the kids i've met who have never been to daycare and were starved of an early education and a chance to develop social skills are some of the worst behaved kids i've ever met. No social skills, bullies, mentally inept and incapable of dealing with the world.

People like you are boring, the same sort of morons that complain about the existence of kids in the first place.
 
2012-06-18 10:28:50 PM
To be honest, the hardest part of kids is figuring out what to do with them during the day.

On the one hand, you can turn on the TV and leave them there all day.

On the other, you can micromanage their day to the point that you're exhausted.

After doing this for a few months, I think women are exhausted because their time management skills are bad and they worry too much about the future. Sure kids are a lot of work, but they're not as much work as women make them out to be.

If you're disorganized, having kids will crush you.

// two toddlers, one infant
 
2012-06-18 10:29:23 PM

RibbyK: onecanshort: So since i put my kid in daycare I'm a bad parent?

When you employ a serrogate to parent your kid, you're no longer the parent, right?
Bad? Stay tuned, you'll know in 18 years.


Of course, and hiring a cleaner means that I no longer own a house.
 
2012-06-18 10:30:04 PM

One Bad Apple: tankjr:

Gangbangs can take a lot out of a gal.

I would think they put a lot in.


Nine out of ten people agree.
 
zez
2012-06-18 10:30:20 PM
I've been a SAHD for over 8 years now and it's great. the worst part is doing the same stuff over and over. I mean how many times can you go to the zoo before you just don't care any more?

It was great for the first kid, but 4 years later when the second came along I was starting to get burnt out on seeing the same things, luckily the second has much different interests which make things more interesting to me.
 
2012-06-18 10:30:41 PM
Wow it must suck for some of you who either A) don't have other family in the area or B) had kids to late in life.

Both sets of grandparents are retired and can't wait to watch the grandkids. Daycare? WTF is that?
 
2012-06-18 10:32:26 PM
Phrawgh: /also, move close enough to grandma's house so you can visit without having to board a plane - at least till the little tykes are old enough to fly.

Hi, we're a US Navy family currently stationed overseas. Before that, we lived in Virginia and South Carolina, which while not impossible was a huge pain in the ass to drive to Michigan from.

How would you suggest we get our kids home, short of a transatlantic cruise ship?
 
2012-06-18 10:33:03 PM

kukukupo: Wow it must suck for some of you who either A) don't have other family in the area or B) had kids to late in life.

Both sets of grandparents are retired and can't wait to watch the grandkids. Daycare? WTF is that?


Or, C) The grandparents are even lazier than the stay at home parent
 
2012-06-18 10:33:37 PM
I can't decide if you are a troll

snuff3r: AbbeySomeone: It doesn't matter who it is, children just need a loving parent. It pisses me off to see people have babies and then put them in daycare immediately. WTF? Don't complain about how they turn out when you're farming them out from infancy.
But I had to work, I have a job.
Hmm, the underpaid daycare worker doesn't?
It's bullsh*t. Take care of your kids people, plan ahead.

*yaaaaaaawn* 1/10

My kid has been in daycare since 6 months old. Now seven, he's polite, healthy, lives under a solid roof, has a good education to date, has two loving parents who give him every ounce of time and attention he asks for, is well behaved, etc. Most of his friends he's known since daycare, from 1yo onward, etc.

Meanwhile, most of the kids i've met who have never been to daycare and were starved of an early education and a chance to develop social skills are some of the worst behaved kids i've ever met. No social skills, bullies, mentally inept and incapable of dealing with the world.

People like you are boring, the same sort of morons that complain about the existence of kids in the first place.

 
2012-06-18 10:33:58 PM

kukukupo: Wow it must suck for some of you who either A) don't have other family in the area or B) had kids to late in life.

Both sets of grandparents are retired and can't wait to watch the grandkids. Daycare? WTF is that?


We don't have family in the area, so did the stay-at-home mom thing for a bit until I was nearly suicidal (some people find joy in being a SAHP, but not me...it was soul-crushing). Fortunately, last year we were able to get our daughter into a fabulous preschool---in fact, the prestigious preschool on our university's campus---and I was able to get an NSF fellowship to return to school. Now life is one beautiful day after another...
 
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