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(Lifehacker)   Emotional well-being also rises with income, but there is no further progress beyond an annual income of $75,000   (lifehacker.com) divider line 89
    More: Unlikely, emotional well-being, Gallup Organization, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, incomes  
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6919 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2012 at 5:48 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-18 05:57:49 PM
11 votes:
Yeah, money can't buy happiness, but broke can't buy shiat.
2012-06-18 05:55:02 PM
6 votes:
Paging Maslow....

After your basic needs are taken care of and secure, no amount of cash is going to buy you "self actualization."
2012-06-18 06:50:55 PM
4 votes:
Economics 101: the declining margin of return on money, wealth and income.

You need water. Once you have about a litre or two to drink each day, you can't drink any more without health risks. A few litres more for cooking, and you don't need to worry about starving or getting really sick from raw food, or losing your teeth to stone grit and hard roots. 150 litres for a bath, once a week, and you'll be reasonably clean as well as never go thirsty.

You need sleep. Once you can sleep for eight hours a night, you'll do just fine. You'll never need more than your biological set level of sleep unless you are sick or traumatized.

You need food, but you'll get used to whatever diet you can afford and after a while, even the most expensive dainties cloy or make you obese.

And so it goes. All the basic necessities of life are cheap to somebody with $77,000, except maybe housing, and that depends on where you choose to live, so it's part necessity and part luxury, part snobbishness, part extravangance and rivalry with richer people. Keeping up with the Jones and the Smiths doesn't necessarily make you an iota happier, although it will always cost more and more and more.

When a poor country hits about $3,000 per capita, it starts to demand health care and education and other "luxuries". The UK went through this stage in the late 1700s-early 1800s. The USA was well into this stage by the 1830s-1850s. Countries like China have progressed past $3,000 per capita in two stages: the Mao stage where they concentrated on equality, education, extending life expectancy and health care, and the It's Glorious to Get Rich stage where a reasonable level of health and longevity is possible for the majority and the powers that be are concentrating on wealth production, consumer goods and services, and also new luxuries such as shutting down the dirtiest coal plants and building massive solar and wind power facilities.

As individuals you might think you need more than $77,000 because you are used to it, but there's scarcely a country on Earth where that is the median income. Luxembourg is one. It may be the only one. The US median family is well below that still.

It's easier to acquire new tastes and "needs" than to lose them. It's easier to buy more stuff until you run out of room than to figure out what you can do without. It's easier to eat too much than to eat well and stop before you are full.

But this is basic economics because everything that grows in this universe goes through a stage of rapid growth and then slacks off eventually. Everything but cancer. And who wants to be a cancer?

It's the S-shaped curve in various forms--declining marginal utility, population growth, energy consumption, wealth creation, and so on.

The children of the founders are not interested in more money--they have too much. They want more power, prestige, leisure, display, travel. The children of the second generation may not be interested in even those. They may give up social climbing and snob display for more laid-back leisure or for the arts, music or charity work. They may become socialists and take an interest in spreading around money that both embarasses them and hassels them with lawyers and accountants and bailiffs and estate agents and so forth.

A few old families will strike a balance between getting and spending that enables them to go on for several centuries, but in the end, once you have an aristocratic title, it is often no necessary to have a lot of money--the title is solid--it is the highest form of situational good--it's something you have that nobody can get because you have to be born with it.

Would you rather be an English Duke with $77,000 a year in interest and dividend income or a nouveau riche vulgarian with $77,000,000? And who is the the guy with $777,000,000 or $7 billion going to want to invite to dinner--the Duke or the vulgarian? IIRC, there are about 26 English Dukes in the world, counting the Royal Dukes (who don't really count for the hereditary peers) but there are hundreds of billionaires and many of them are white trash or worse.

Money can't buy some things, and the happiness of a peasant with his health and many children or a king with the longest pedigree in Europe, are two different kinds of things that money can't buy.

Even for the very, very rich, there are still a lot of things money can't buy or they'd all die of boredom and despair.

We define ourselves in many ways. Money is always a way of keeping score and shuffling goods around, it is not happiness.
2012-06-18 07:53:59 PM
3 votes:
Tunney: There was a BBC article a while back about a study into happiness and wages. People earning £50,000 ($75,000) are happier than those earning £100,000 a year.

Why? Because there's plenty of 9-5 jobs where you can earn £50,000 a year. Almost all £100,000 jobs are high stress and long hours. £50,000 a year gives you enough money to not have to worry and also gives you enough free time to enjoy it.


THIS is the key to happiness. As I always say: maximize salary while minimizing stress and/or hours worked.

Means I'll never be a manager. Can't stand babysitting so-called adults.
2012-06-18 07:41:53 PM
3 votes:
At some point you pass beyond an event horizon, and you've accumulated so much that all of your desires are met except the acquisition of even more, and the power to inflict suffering on people beneath you.

i49.tinypic.com

These guys have so much money that they could easily indulge every desire they have as often as they want, and they'd never get within a stone's throw of burning through their money. Not even a tenth of it. But instead they devote their time and energy to polluting your lakes and rivers, buying your governments, destroying your communities, and making sure your school teachers don't have health insurance. They have everything they could ever want, and this is what they choose to do with themselves.
2012-06-18 06:41:41 PM
3 votes:
so people generally just want to be safe and secure, and beyond that most people are content to have general comfort? It's only a tiny percentage of the population who think that they have to have all the money in order to be happy? and possibly that population is hoarding a disproportionate amount of resources forcing everyone else to struggle?

you don't say.
2012-06-18 06:34:25 PM
3 votes:
My research tells me that when your financial state is such that you get excited when you have enough money to buy necessities, more money may make you more happy. E.g. if you're popping the cap off a tube of toothpaste like it's a bottle of Cristal, you may have some room for improvement.
2012-06-18 06:20:31 PM
3 votes:
Doesn't seem so odd. Having been at extremes of income well on either side of that at various times, I get it. Sorry, but the people around me making $2M a year think they are poor and struggling, too, just like the people did at $500k or at $50k.
Fact is, people get psychologically baselined at the income and privilege level they are at, and think they need more. It doesn't stop. I am assuming its the same way with billionaires too. People don't change.
2012-06-19 06:19:18 AM
2 votes:
Makes sense to me. By and large, the quantity and strength of stress and out-of-whack work/life balance that accompanies an occupation is probably pretty high once you get well past that $75,000 mark. Most of the time.
2012-06-19 03:49:57 AM
2 votes:
For anyone who thinks Maslows Hierarchy is hogwash, you cant self actualize if you cant breath or excrete. As a nurse I see this proven daily. People who cant meet the bottom level for themselves or their family commit suicide or lie, cheat and steal to get those things. Never dealt with a patient who couldnt express empathy, but plenty who couldnt breath or excrete.
2012-06-18 08:13:30 PM
2 votes:
LouDobbsAwaaaay: At some point you pass beyond an event horizon, and you've accumulated so much that all of your desires are met except the acquisition of even more, and the power to inflict suffering on people beneath you.

[i49.tinypic.com image 400x280]

These guys have so much money that they could easily indulge every desire they have as often as they want, and they'd never get within a stone's throw of burning through their money. Not even a tenth of it. But instead they devote their time and energy to polluting your lakes and rivers, buying your governments, destroying your communities, and making sure your school teachers don't have health insurance. They have everything they could ever want, and this is what they choose to do with themselves.


I remember these guys when they were on the Muppet Show heckling from the audience. I oftened what dish kharma would serve up to these to douchebags after the show went under.

In all reality, I think we've gotten side tracked from the story. Financial zen is when money no longer becomes a factor when making a decision. A good example would be denying your kid a trip with their friends because you can't afford it. It's not like you would have to say no if you had the money. If I did have to say no to my kid I'd prefer to just say no without money clouding the issue.

Having a few extra bucks in the bank is amazing. For quite a while, I've wanted a decent stereo I just could not afford nor make it take precedence over other financial obligations. Suddenly I have the cash enough to afford that stereo, buying that stereo suddenly no longer became a pressing need. Having the ability to make this purchase or not is amazingly satisfying unto itself.

The researchers in this article- by using whatever matrix- -have concluded that, at $75k, most people would have achieved that certain amount of financial satisfaction where most financial decisions could be made on want and need rather than ability/inability to pay.
2012-06-18 08:12:34 PM
2 votes:
> No wonBummerDuck: meat0918: BummerDuck: BuckTurgidson: 3. Buy many small pleasures instead of few big ones

[sharedlog_ai.s3.amazonaws.com image 400x269]

Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it. Don't wait for it. Just let it happen. It could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot black coffee.

I can't imagine a worse list for advice, this being the top thing. I have dated way to many women that are financially screwed up because someone, sometime told them they should do this. After a while, it was ingrained that when they were depressed, they should go shopping and buy something. And right after they looked at the credit card bills each month, they would shop even more. Horrible cycle of doom if it ever gets out of control, and tying happiness to material thingie gratification is not the right path IMO. That is why rich born kids are usually a**holes.

There is a difference between "Go buy a shiatload of stuff" and "Get a candy bar on occasion."


There is, but that is not the behavior I noticed.

Anyway, a shirt was listed. A nice shirt costs $. "Good" coffee was listed, 2 cups. That's what, $8-10 bucks now days? A catnap in an office chair, during work hours? really hard worker we have there. No wonder that person doesn't make sh*t. thinks the world owes them something.


Why is it that when a rich person acts like the world owes them something, we agree with them; but when a poor person acts like the world owes them something, we condemn them?
2012-06-18 07:29:47 PM
2 votes:
Now I know why I am not happy, a $75k in annual income is the stuff of dreams for me.

It never pays to look at what those ahead of you on the bell curve have, people forget that almost always you can simply turn around and see plenty who have less than you.
2012-06-18 07:26:28 PM
2 votes:
Lt. Cheese Weasel: I make more than 75K Doubling my salary would make me twice as happy as I am now.

Stupid article is stupid.



Scientific research surrenders to your arrogance and ignorance.
2012-06-18 07:25:05 PM
2 votes:
CruJones: Money may not buy happiness, but it buys things that make me happy.


that isn't happiness. It's just temporary relief while you search for something else to give you that quick fix.
2012-06-18 07:06:27 PM
2 votes:
Damn. We made $74,800 last year. I was two hundred dollars away from happiness. Well, 6,000,000 yen actually. When I started the job it was only like $50,000. I guess I just kept getting happier as the dollar declined.

I try to explain to my now-fellow Tennesseeans why $75K in Osaka is nothing, and they can't relate. I'd be pretty happy here with the same money, but I had nothing there.

For me money isn't about stuff. It's about security. I lie awake in bed at night literally shaking in fear that I won't be able to feed myself this time next year, or that I'll get sick or hurt and have to decide between ruining my finances and credit going to a doctor or just letting it go and accepting the pain. If my car breaks down, I just don't get to drive any more. Phone breaks? Don't call me again, because there won't be an answer.

What's it like to be free of that fear? Is that happiness? I'm not sad now. I'm just kind of twitchy.
2012-06-18 06:34:08 PM
2 votes:
So what do I have to do for the $75k ?

The most I ever made was about $50k and I was glad to have it my bills all got paid off, loans kaput, and then I had money in the bank. It helped a lot when I was laid off that job.
2012-06-18 06:25:41 PM
2 votes:
caramba421: Yeah, money can't buy happiness, but broke can't buy shiat.

I've heard it a different way:

Money doesn't buy happiness, but debt sure does buy grief.
2012-06-18 06:24:58 PM
2 votes:
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

- Agent whatshisname.
2012-06-18 06:23:44 PM
2 votes:
GoodOmens: 75K in DC = about 40~50k in no where America.

So yea - where is this 75k number from?


Originally from Indian mathematicians, with the system transmitted to Europe in the Middle Ages by Arabs. But that's not important right now.
2012-06-18 06:17:55 PM
2 votes:
rumpelstiltskin: I read "emotional well-being" as something closer to sanity than happiness.

That was my thought. Sure you can do more with $150k, but maybe $75k is the magic number where most people can sleep at night knowing that they can pay their mortgage AND the gas bill AND buy clothes AND save for retirement AND maybe take the odd vacation here and there. It doesn't say anything about supporting family members though, so I don't know if that skews the equation one way or the other.
2012-06-18 06:06:08 PM
2 votes:
I make more than 75K Doubling my salary would make me twice as happy as I am now.

Stupid article is stupid.
2012-06-18 06:06:05 PM
2 votes:
3. Buy many small pleasures instead of few big ones

sharedlog_ai.s3.amazonaws.com

Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it. Don't wait for it. Just let it happen. It could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot black coffee.
2012-06-18 06:00:18 PM
2 votes:
"Unlikely", subby? This is well-established in psychological research. These studies have been going on for decades, and the basic findings remains the same: Poverty sucks, so increasing income increases happiness until a certain freedom from suffering is attained. Above that point, the curve levels off and money stops buying happiness. This is not a controversial finding.
2012-06-18 05:55:49 PM
2 votes:
Perhaps income rises with emotional well-being.
2012-06-18 05:54:58 PM
2 votes:
Sounds about right.

Rich people don't seem terribly well-adjusted mentally, if you know what I mean.
2012-06-18 05:54:52 PM
2 votes:
Huh, well I certainly feel much more comfortable and happy than when I made 75k. Money may not buy happiness, but it buys things that make me happy.

Plus it's nice not having zero dollars in my savings account. As always, your mileage may vary.
2012-06-18 05:45:40 PM
2 votes:
Pawn takes the King: I feel... just... CAPITAL.

img843.imageshack.us
2012-06-18 05:14:10 PM
2 votes:
Last study said it was $120,000.
This is one hell of a recession!
2012-06-19 04:23:22 PM
1 votes:
It's not how much you make, it's how much you hold onto. I make a bit less than $75k and am doing just fine. I have no debt, my cars are paid for, my house will be paid off by the time I'm 45, and I've got plenty of disposable income to support my lifestyle and hobbies. I know lots of people who make much more than me and are still always broke with little to show for it.
2012-06-19 09:41:35 AM
1 votes:
I can see that making sense.

Below that and the stresses of survival, mortages, car payments, etc are very strong.

Above that you typically create all new stresses such as higher-stress/stakes jobs, diminished leisure time, etc. All the while, the benefits of that extra money are not as significant. Being able to buy a slightly nicer car isn't as game-chaning as being able to afford a working car at all.

Also, once you go so high in income, you stop comparing "average" people as your peers and compare yourself with the elite. 75k is NOTHING to the rich. So, instead of being on the top of the scale you've now positioned yourself on the bottom of a new scale.

tl;dr - the utility of being able to prodide a decent life provides much more satisfaction per dollar than simply being ble to live "better".
2012-06-19 09:09:20 AM
1 votes:
Bullseyed: Polyhazard: Paging Maslow....

After your basic needs are taken care of and secure, no amount of cash is going to buy you "self actualization."

And the only thing money can get you on Maslow's pyramid costs about $20,000 a year, well below minimum wage.


Not actually true. Up to $55,000 will buy you a "shield" against people who think that "self-actualization" means deliberately destroying your life. Below that amount, you're at the mercy of people who enjoy destroying others to make themselves feel better.
2012-06-19 02:21:17 AM
1 votes:
clowncar on fire: dragonchild: CliChe Guevara: Sorry, but the people around me making $2M a year think they are poor and struggling, too, just like the people did at $500k or at $50k.

Don't try to speak for everyone. Right around the $60k mark I started turning down offers for more money because of the hours. I could certainly use more money, but $60k was where financial stress
I dunno, maybe I'm the only guy left who can budget, but either way I wouldn't claim to be "struggling" on $2M/year or $500k/year if I was on the trippiest 'shrooms on the planet.

*high five*

I also found that around 50-60k was my tipping point where I started worrying a hell of a lot less about the small things. Mind you- I have a family i support and having a few bucks more wouldn't hurt- I just worry a lot less about the more essential things i couldn't afford before.


You folks are pretty clear thinkers then. I applaud you, but you are still in the minority. I am in the same boat as you as regards stress, once I hit about that level as well, I scaled back and now work approximately 2 days a week to maintain that income level (if not even a bit less lately). I could still be developing nervous tics and priming for an early heart attack to maintain six figures, but I am not. We seem to be in the stark minority though.

I still have guys around me killing themselves to nail that magic six-figure mark, and they still don't have a grand in the bank or a penny in retirement - renting a house, leasing a couple luxury SUV's, and living literally paycheck to paycheck for going on a decade now because there is always a new gadget to buy, or some new appearance to keep up with the crowd just a bit richer than they are.
2012-06-19 12:26:23 AM
1 votes:
As someone that recently inherited money == $lotsa via watching two parents waste away and die, I'm going to go ahead and agree with the findings. I was happy in my making-enough-to-get-by job. Mo' Money, Mo' Problems.
2012-06-19 12:09:42 AM
1 votes:
And everyone always wants to dismiss it with "oh look, another special snowflake". fark that. I'm not a special snowflake. NEITHER IS STEPHANIE MYERS. Neither are the cast of "Jersey Shore". Neither is Donald Trump.

But we treat these assclowns like they're "special snowflakes", and then condemn people who have ACTUAL talent for thinking that their talent should be rewarded - not with fame, but maybe just with a decent living.

"Yeah, fark you buddy, you can draw well but what did you ever do for ME? Yeah, you saved our department by turning around that project, but so the fark what? I need someone with INITIATIVE who THINKS OF THE BOTTOM LINE! You were SUPPOSED to get those guys fired, not increase their productivity so I can't justify sacking them!"

Either things like "talent" and "respect" and "common decency" actually matter in this world, or they don't. If they do, then we need to incentivize and reward them (see? Free market terms!). If not, then we need to stop condemning people who have them for not having them, and pretending that it's their lack of talent, not their lack of ruthlessness, that is holding them back.
2012-06-19 12:00:10 AM
1 votes:
You know, here's why I'm a whiny shiat:

You know... I'm a pretty decent artist. But as good as I get, I will never be as recognized as Rob Liefeld.

I'm not a bad on-screen personality. But as good as I try to be, I will never be as recognized as Snooki.

I write rather well. But no matter how well I write, I will never be as recognized as Stephanie Meyer.

I try to be a decent leader. But no matter how hard I try to empathize with others, figure out solutions to their problems and do right by them, I will never be as recognized as Donald Trump.

And I don't just mean "recognized" in terms of fame or accolades, although that would be nice. I mean not dragging my ass from menial job to menial job, occasionally getting gigs where people tell me "wow you're really talented, but you're just not what we're looking for".

So, fark it. I'm not interested in being "discovered" after I die. If those no-talent ass-clowns can be successful and I can't, then burn the whole thing down. If I can't turn hard work and talent into success, then why should anyone else be allowed to?
2012-06-18 11:51:46 PM
1 votes:
In one year I went from an 18k family income to an 80k family income. We were very happy on very little, we don't need a lot of toys and don't need to get out much to have fun. Most of the higher income goes into the bank and we still live on very little. What really, really makes me happy though, is the thought that if the money goes away suddenly, nothing really really bad will happen to my family in the time it will take to reestablish ourselves at the 18k threshold. That knowledge is priceless.
2012-06-18 11:25:15 PM
1 votes:
BummerDuck: ialdabaoth: Why is it that when a rich person acts like the world owes them something, we agree with them; but when a poor person acts like the world owes them something, we condemn them?

Who is this "we" you speak of?

/the world owes everyone exactly nothing
//get over it.


It's easier to get over it when you aren't panicked about starving to death.
2012-06-18 10:27:35 PM
1 votes:
Indubitably: ialdabaoth: Indubitably: ialdabaoth: Indubitably: ialdabaoth: Indubitably:
So, I'm reading, "self-actualizer:" what does that look like for you? What is self-actualiza ...

Crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

Interesting.

I'm sensing circling the wagons.

Rounding up the troops.

Gathering your quicks.

Seeking allies.

;)

انا على أخوي وأنا وأخوي على ابن عمي وأنا وابن عمي على الغريب

I am against no one, friend.

I am for everyone.

Make that happen in the real world, and then try to obfuscate, please.

Thank you.

People who think like that get to watch their daughters be raped in front of them, then have their daughter's hands cut off in front of them, then watch their houses and their wives burn while they listen to their wailing.

You fight or you die. You conquer or you die. You destroy or you die.

Creating is for pussies. How long did it take to build the Twin Towers? How long did it take to knock them down?

Why?


You fight out of fear of looking weak, you conquer out of fear of being defeated, you destroy out of your inability to create. All you done is show how weak you are- sort of like those morons flashing the bejamins to hide the fact that they have no real wealth.
2012-06-18 08:44:33 PM
1 votes:
I am willing to test the effects of a $1,000,000 annual income on my emotional well-being.

/Please make all checks out to "cash"
//It's all in the name of science
2012-06-18 08:35:37 PM
1 votes:
SuperNinjaToad: so basically $75K per individual. If you are a family of 4 (since kids cost $$$), either both spouses have to make combined of 300K or at least one of them make $300K and the others leech off of him.
I can see why most american families are depressed!


The 75k would apply to head of household although there may be a bit of supplement per family member (far less than 75k). The "well being" would be in knowing that basic essentials were satisfied (food, shelter, transportation, etc) and that there would no financial stress meeting these basic needs.

Not being able to play "groupie" to your favorite artist for their summer concert tour should not be as stressful as, say, losing your power in the winter because you could not afford the electric bill.
2012-06-18 08:34:22 PM
1 votes:
CliChe Guevara: Sorry, but the people around me making $2M a year think they are poor and struggling, too, just like the people did at $500k or at $50k.

Don't try to speak for everyone. Right around the $60k mark I started turning down offers for more money because of the hours. I could certainly use more money, but $60k was where financial stress
I dunno, maybe I'm the only guy left who can budget, but either way I wouldn't claim to be "struggling" on $2M/year or $500k/year if I was on the trippiest 'shrooms on the planet.
2012-06-18 08:26:16 PM
1 votes:
H31N0US: There is some point at the other side of that plateau where you could quit your job and do whatever you wanted without fearing for your or your loved ones well being.

Stopping work is also dangerous to your happiness. A lot of people, most people, even, become restless and lack a sense of purpose when they don't have anything important to do. You also lose the sense of value when everything is available to you. A fancy dinner at a high-end restaurant every week will bring you less joy than when you were poor and you treated yourself to McDonalds instead of eating cold soup out of a can like usual.

Being rich isn't *that* great. It's pretty cool, but not a necessity.
2012-06-18 08:22:49 PM
1 votes:
Despite popular assertions to the contrary, science tells us that money can buy happiness. To a point.


Sure are a lot of science-haters in this thread.
2012-06-18 08:22:19 PM
1 votes:
Magnanimous_J: The way I see it, money is the blood of the body of your life. All your wishes and dreams and goals are your body. The bigger your dreams, the more ambitious your goals, the bigger your body. But none of it means a damn thing without money because unless your goal is to be the world's most prolific subway masturbater, you're going to need money.

The other important thing to remember about money, is that it is freedom. Pure and simple. Having the constitution and a bill of rights is ultimately meaningless if starving to death is at the whim of your employer.

Personally, I want enough money where I can do anything I want. Decide to go to Paris at 3am for the hell of it, ride my motorcycle through the New Mexican desert and be seduced by a hot Indian chick who feeds me peyote and sings a sandstorm into existence with her Indian powers and we have to hide all night in an adobe ruin of a peasant house from a long forgotten civilization.

I want to have a one night stand with a heart breakingly beautiful raven haired Spanish woman in Playa de Usgo. We never speak again and 19 years later, I go back and am drinking one of those tiny cups of coffee in an outdoor cafe. I make eye contact with the 18 or 19 year old waiter and a flash of recognition crosses his face. He knows that I could never have known about his existence and he forgives me. Not a word is spoken, and I never see him again, but the moment is quite poignant.


Sounds like you may have more than just wanted it, *nudge, nudge wink,wink*

Would those "big dreams " have been more satsfying if you had toiled for them or een just as satisfying if someone else had picked up the tab. i think te more "skin" you have in meeting a goal, the more you value it.
2012-06-18 08:14:52 PM
1 votes:
It sounds reasonable, unless you have expensive tastes or live in a big city. Enough to pay bills, have insurance, fix anything that need fixing, save for retirement, and have a vacation once per year.
2012-06-18 08:10:30 PM
1 votes:
BummerDuck: No wonder that person doesn't make sh*t. thinks the world owes them something.

Americans watch their standard of living take a nosedive while they scream at each other about who is the most entitled, while Sweden's biggest concern is making sure the people of Sweden are happy.

What a pathetic joke this country has become. Done in by being too proud to admit that anything is wrong.
2012-06-18 08:03:13 PM
1 votes:
I've been on both sides of that number by large amounts, currently on the under.

I don't know how much "happier" I was making 6 figures, but I sure enjoyed not getting stressed if the wife's car needed a battery, if the kids needed braces, etc.

No, come to think of it, I was a whole lot happier. Not to mention that the jobs paying the $75k around here tend to be soul suckers now. I really, really miss the shorter schedule and larger benefits that my last job had. I used to be able to afford crazy extravagances like vacations. Now I just eke out the day until 6pm rolls around and I can get drunk, albeit it on cheap beer now.
2012-06-18 07:46:31 PM
1 votes:
I'm not quite sure I believe this. I may have to try it out. Will somebody please give me an extra $40K a year so I can see if actually being able to farking make ends meet makes me happier?!

/not bitter
//but I'm out of antidepressants and don't get paid until Friday
2012-06-18 07:44:17 PM
1 votes:
And then when you learn about Self-Actualization, perhaps the crowning achievement of an individual's life, you realize that money has very little to do with it at all.

There's a reason a number of religions with a path toward an ideal similar to self-actualization involve taking vows of poverty. Things and the desire of them tend to get in the way.
2012-06-18 07:38:50 PM
1 votes:
Money doesn't buy happiness, but it will give you security. Some of our best times were when we were just getting by. All money did for me was buying DeWalt instead of Black & Decker.
2012-06-18 07:37:28 PM
1 votes:
In the New Economical Order, money is means only not ends.

75k is plenty of stack.

;)
2012-06-18 07:33:49 PM
1 votes:
Snarfangel: GoodOmens: 75K in DC = about 40~50k in no where America.

So yea - where is this 75k number from?

Originally from Indian mathematicians, with the system transmitted to Europe in the Middle Ages by Arabs. But that's not important right now.


1.bp.blogspot.com
2012-06-18 07:30:45 PM
1 votes:
BummerDuck: BuckTurgidson: 3. Buy many small pleasures instead of few big ones

[sharedlog_ai.s3.amazonaws.com image 400x269]

Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it. Don't wait for it. Just let it happen. It could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot black coffee.

I can't imagine a worse list for advice, this being the top thing. I have dated way to many women that are financially screwed up because someone, sometime told them they should do this. After a while, it was ingrained that when they were depressed, they should go shopping and buy something. And right after they looked at the credit card bills each month, they would shop even more. Horrible cycle of doom if it ever gets out of control, and tying happiness to material thingie gratification is not the right path IMO. That is why rich born kids are usually a**holes.


There is a difference between "Go buy a shiatload of stuff" and "Get a candy bar on occasion."
2012-06-18 07:30:07 PM
1 votes:
Polyhazard: Paging Maslow....

After your basic needs are taken care of and secure, no amount of cash is going to buy you "self actualization."


I disagree. Sure, you can't just buy it... but you can buy trainers, equipment, and most importantly the TIME it takes to train. If I didn't have to work, I could easily "master my full potential" by spending 40 hours a week training, learning and whatever else.

Yeah, you can't just fork over a check and instantly be self-actualized... but as with anything money helps you achieve your goals. The problem with most rich people is that their goal was always just to obtain more money... not to obtain more money to help them do the things they would really enjoy. Money is a tool. You still have to know how to use it.
2012-06-18 07:30:01 PM
1 votes:
Beleaguered: Son of Thunder: "Unlikely", subby? This is well-established in psychological research. These studies have been going on for decades, and the basic findings remains the same: Poverty sucks, so increasing income increases happiness until a certain freedom from suffering is attained. Above that point, the curve levels off and money stops buying happiness. This is not a controversial finding.

Take a family of four and introduce them to a metropolitan area. I'm sure $75k/yr is the limit to just how happy that family can be due to income.

...or maybe we should introduce these researchers to economists and the wide world of "Cost of Living."


Why? You are talking about details that are easily understood, and have no impact on the overall point of the article, and will have been dealt with a number of times in the original studies if you really are that anal. The point is the rapidly degrading benefits of increasing income for certain types of outcome, not the exact dollar amount the transition takes place in certain different geographic locations.
2012-06-18 07:21:33 PM
1 votes:
Countries in which there is a social safety net and Universal health care are statistically happier than Americans.
2012-06-18 07:11:20 PM
1 votes:
If you're a good person, money makes life easier. That's all.
2012-06-18 07:08:41 PM
1 votes:
Different things will make different people happy. Money can make it easier to be happy since you don't have to worry about financial survival as much or at all, but that is certainly not all there is to life.

Generally it seems to be a combination of financial security, a stable trusting relationship, a loving family, close loyal friends, goals in life, hobbies that interest you, having a job that you love, feeling like you're making contributions in some way to the world, etc. will make most people happy.
2012-06-18 07:03:29 PM
1 votes:
tonygotskilz: I make over 75K and I barely make enough to pay off my student loans and still eat human food. I hate hearing crap like this. First of all averages mean nothing to the individual unless you are in the tiny percent that actually make up the average so blanket statements about what makes people happy are retarded.

Money alone will not make anyone happy obviously. Happiness is knowing how to enjoy what you have. That said, having more stuff to enjoy and more time to enjoy it should damn well make you happier or you are doing it wrong.


That sounds like it should be true, sadly it hasn't been my experience. With more stuff comes more maintenance. Eventually, you don't own things you like, things you like own you.

/don't know how polygamists do it
//I like girls, but don't need more than 1
2012-06-18 07:02:24 PM
1 votes:
Well, yeah. Past that point, you are paranoid about how the "libs" are out to get your money
2012-06-18 06:59:49 PM
1 votes:
brantgoose: Economics 101: the declining margin of return on money, wealth and income.

...


Well, that was a pleasant little read.
2012-06-18 06:56:40 PM
1 votes:
I've been very happy on a lot less than that, but I have a more than adequate savings account and no kids.
2012-06-18 06:54:28 PM
1 votes:
BuckTurgidson: 3. Buy many small pleasures instead of few big ones

[sharedlog_ai.s3.amazonaws.com image 400x269]

Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it. Don't wait for it. Just let it happen. It could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot black coffee.


Yeah, this was exactly what came to my mind when reading TFA. It doesn't happen to me every day but this is definitely on of the best advices that improved my life.
2012-06-18 06:52:56 PM
1 votes:
Like BHO said, "at some point you've made enough money." So I guess seventy-five grand is that number.
2012-06-18 06:49:43 PM
1 votes:
CruJones: Huh, well I certainly feel much more comfortable and happy than when I made 75k. Money may not buy happiness, but it buys things that make me happy.

Plus it's nice not having zero dollars in my savings account. As always, your mileage may vary.


In 2011 I made $76k in salary (I made quite a bit more with bonus, but I gave the entire bonus to charity). I managed to put $14k into my savings account and contributed $15k towards my 401(k) that year. I didn't have zero dollars in my savings account back when I was making $40k.

If you have no dependents, you can easily put away a good amount of money when you're making $75k.
2012-06-18 06:48:05 PM
1 votes:
CruJones: Huh, well I certainly feel much more comfortable and happy than when I made 75k. Money may not buy happiness, but it buys things that make me happy.

Plus it's nice not having zero dollars in my savings account. As always, your mileage may vary.


That's wonderful, but a good example of why anecdotal evidence is worthless.
There may be unrelated factors at work in your one, individual case. Other things may have changed in your life that make you happier.
What the people who did the study are saying (and I'm not saying the study is accurate) is that if you look at "X" number of people, on the mean they will be no happier having enjoyed the same improvement in their economic fortunes.
In other words, more money may have entered your life at the same time more happiness did, but there is no demographic, statistical evidence that the two are related.
2012-06-18 06:47:02 PM
1 votes:
There was a BBC article a while back about a study into happiness and wages. People earning £50,000 ($75,000) are happier than those earning £100,000 a year.

Why? Because there's plenty of 9-5 jobs where you can earn £50,000 a year. Almost all £100,000 jobs are high stress and long hours. £50,000 a year gives you enough money to not have to worry and also gives you enough free time to enjoy it.
2012-06-18 06:41:50 PM
1 votes:
the_vicious_fez: JonnyBGoode: I'm pretty sure that the figure is regionally subjective. In the Midwest and South, $75k is a well-off salary. In Los Angeles, it's barely breaking into middle-class.

::shrug:: I've worked for right around that in downtown San Francisco, and paid San Francisco rent. I wasn't one of the startup roulette winners, but I wanted for nothing, and I was very happy indeed.


It obviously depends on age, circumstances, etc. as well. $65k for single person, even in SF can be a good time, IF you don't have kids/big student loans/consumer credit/car payment, etc.
2012-06-18 06:41:41 PM
1 votes:
Snakeophelia: Beleaguered: Son of Thunder: "Unlikely", subby? This is well-established in psychological research. These studies have been going on for decades, and the basic findings remains the same: Poverty sucks, so increasing income increases happiness until a certain freedom from suffering is attained. Above that point, the curve levels off and money stops buying happiness. This is not a controversial finding.

Take a family of four and introduce them to a metropolitan area. I'm sure $75k/yr is the limit to just how happy that family can be due to income.

...or maybe we should introduce these researchers to economists and the wide world of "Cost of Living."

Agreed. Given the amount of measurement error around constructs such as "happiness", it's very odd that the value could remain so consistent. I'm not saying the finding itself is odd or controversial. But the dollar amount seems silly, epecially to those of us in areas with a high cost of living, and a little too consistent across these studies.

What's more, not only does it seem like the dollar amount is wrong, it seems like even a value corrected for cost of living or inflation shouldn't apply to everyone of different age and experience levels. I mean, across almost any field, a person would be happy with $75K as a starting salary, and in some fields that's a mid-level salary. In my particular field, anyone in their 40's and/or more than 10 years out of grad school would be extremely unhappy with that salary, because it's not what they're worth, and they would know that. And even if you have enough money to pay the bills, I would think that being aware that you're worth more than you're being paid would make you, well, unhappy.

/speaking from personal experience
//money bought the house that made me happy
///but I first met my husband when I was poor, so it all balances out


I'm sure you guys both actually read the study, the methodologies and the conclusion. I'm sure just taking that number and simple claim at face value is exactly what the point of the study was. I'm sure you guys are both correct in interpreting that location, family size, cost of living are not factored into the study. I'm just sure of it.
2012-06-18 06:38:25 PM
1 votes:
JonnyBGoode: I'm pretty sure that the figure is regionally subjective. In the Midwest and South, $75k is a well-off salary. In Los Angeles, it's barely breaking into middle-class.

::shrug:: I've worked for right around that in downtown San Francisco, and paid San Francisco rent. I wasn't one of the startup roulette winners, but I wanted for nothing, and I was very happy indeed.
2012-06-18 06:36:52 PM
1 votes:
I can vouch for that.

The more I make, the happier and more secure I feel.

Got a nice raise this year. 6 years ago I was making 22K, now, almost 3 times that amount (60K). I can finally do a lot of the things I was worried I would never be able to do.
2012-06-18 06:36:32 PM
1 votes:
I'm pretty sure that the figure is regionally subjective. In the Midwest and South, $75k is a well-off salary. In Los Angeles, it's barely breaking into middle-class.
2012-06-18 06:35:46 PM
1 votes:
I've heard it was right around that number for about 2 decades now, and at this point I think it's pretty accurate given what my financial goals are.
2012-06-18 06:33:15 PM
1 votes:
the_vicious_fez: rumpelstiltskin: I read "emotional well-being" as something closer to sanity than happiness.

That was my thought. Sure you can do more with $150k, but maybe $75k is the magic number where most people can sleep at night knowing that they can pay their mortgage AND the gas bill AND buy clothes AND save for retirement AND maybe take the odd vacation here and there. It doesn't say anything about supporting family members though, so I don't know if that skews the equation one way or the other.


I read it similarly. Something along the lines of the point at which fear of being caught without enough money stops being one of the major emotional focal points of your life. The point at which there's a feeling (accurate or not) of financial security.
2012-06-18 06:29:25 PM
1 votes:
Salmon: That's the wage of a Tim Horton's clerk in Northern Alberta and they don't look so happy

shiat, for that kind of money (assuming the exchange rate is about the same as it is now) I'd go work for TH in Alberta. Could buy some good geothermal heating for the cabin with that kinda cash...
2012-06-18 06:24:13 PM
1 votes:
how much you make is important. but equally important is how much you blow/spend.

if you make 200k/year and spend 200k/year, you're no better off than anyone else. if you save/invest 100 or 150k of that, then in a few years you'll be looking pretty.
2012-06-18 06:22:55 PM
1 votes:
Lt. Cheese Weasel: I make more than 75K Doubling my salary would make me twice as happy as I am now.

Stupid article is stupid.


Just out of curiosity, but do you have several kids or something? Cuz I could totally see the financial happiness being less if you have kids that you have to spend more on (not that I'm [entirely] anti-other-people's-kids, just that you have less for fun stuff).
2012-06-18 06:19:01 PM
1 votes:
I could believe that but it also probably goes up when you become independently wealthy too.
2012-06-18 06:18:44 PM
1 votes:
H31N0US: I imagine that there is a plateau which represents being financially comfortable but still shackled to a job as a means of sustenance. To bottom range of that plateau would depend on the cost of living where you live. There is some point at the other side of that plateau where you could quit your job and do whatever you wanted without fearing for your or your loved ones well being.

That is around having $20 million in investable assets.
2012-06-18 06:15:50 PM
1 votes:
75K in DC = about 40~50k in no where America.

So yea - where is this 75k number from?
2012-06-18 06:13:46 PM
1 votes:
I read "emotional well-being" as something closer to sanity than happiness, which puts it out of the reach of most of you no matter how much you make.
2012-06-18 06:12:14 PM
1 votes:
I imagine that there is a plateau which represents being financially comfortable but still shackled to a job as a means of sustenance. To bottom range of that plateau would depend on the cost of living where you live. There is some point at the other side of that plateau where you could quit your job and do whatever you wanted without fearing for your or your loved ones well being.
2012-06-18 06:10:36 PM
1 votes:
Surely there are billionaires out there who wish to show me peak happiness.

/I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a world-famous billionaire bikini supermodel astrophysicist.
2012-06-18 06:02:56 PM
1 votes:
* Offer not valid in major metropolitan areas.
2012-06-18 06:02:52 PM
1 votes:
Yes, I am willing to settle for $75k. Someone please pay it to me.
2012-06-18 05:56:25 PM
1 votes:
I'm sure this varies somewhat based on cost of living in a given area, but if Lordfortuna and I were EACH pulling down that much, we'd be pretty damn happy, since we could do what we want in terms of residence instead of what we had to settle on. We'd much prefer to live out by his parents, but couldn't afford the build cost and utility installation. Mostly because we like to pay at least 75% up front, if not more.
2012-06-18 05:53:07 PM
1 votes:
"If money don't buy happiness, I guess I'll have to rent it"
-W.A. Yankovick
2012-06-18 05:17:43 PM
1 votes:
I'm sure the 80% of Americans who don't make that salary feel awesome.
 
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