In other news, guy who wants companies to give to him, at their expense, what other companies pay for at significant expense, throws a rather unprofessional public fit because some companies refuse to do so.

The important part of the original article:

Of course, while this makes for good drama, it is hardly surprising that NVIDIA won't dedicate the kind of resources that they put in Windows or Android to Linux. There are thousands of software engineers working on Windows alone, so even a company like NVIDIA can't just snap its fingers and provide great support for yet another OS without using extensive resources.

The NVIDIA Linux driver issue isn't new. Linux users have been complaining for years about this, and AMD has even tried to fill the gap at some point by releasing open-source drivers. NVIDIA has refused to release an Open-Source driver because they say that it would expose information that is critically important to the company. It's called "Intellectual Property" and surprisingly, companies who spend more than $500 Million developing a chip want to protect that.

In other words, Linus, tough.

Why do you need fancy graphics cards on Linux? It doesn't take much to run a shell.

/wait, they make GUIs for Linux now?
//whaaaaaaat?

At the moment, I'm getting closer to "fark nvidia"

I've got an Asus gtx 560 oc/dc2 card that bluescreens every time the pc reboots any way other than through a normal shutdown/restart process. This occurs right after the load screen where the "welcome" should appear on the blue field, right before the login. If I ever have a windows update, or installation that requires a reboot, I have to boot to safe mode, remove the nvidia drivers, do the update, and then put the driver back on. This has been happening since january when I got the card.

The most stable driver at the moment seems to be nvidia's 275.33, I've tried all the release and most of the beta drivers that were listed since june of 2011.

If I leave the driver off, it works as a standard vga card, and works fine. But I can't play any games that way.
If I put my old 8800gtx back in the machine, I have no problems.
I've reinstalled win7x64 approximately 5 times trying to nail down where the problem was. Thinking it was a software confilct some where. On a barebones clean install, I still had the problem
I've even upgraded my power supply to a 750w running 64amps on a single rail.
I even tried all 3 ram sticks in different slots and as single sticks.
I'm wondering if it's just a bad factory overclock. so I tried both nvidia's ntune and msi's afterburner to lower the clocks, but since those load after windows starts, there's no effect.

This is driving me bonkers, do I contact nvidia for a replacement RMA? or does anyone have any ideas? (so very scared... etc)

intel i7 920, not overclocked
msi x58 platinum sli mobo w/ updated firmware
6gigs ram

skinink: He should worry less about NVidia and should say something about the numerous distros out there, many looking very unpolished, lacking basic documentation and a biatch to configure.

He can't, that's the whole thing to Linux, anyone who wants to can make their own distro.

Fark NVidia. Best thing that I ever did with a NVidia card was to take it to the skeet shoot and send it to a bullet ridden grave. (yes, I picked up all the pieces after ward, wouldn't want to pollute)

Damn thing would overheat simply running MSPait, and gobbled electricity like no tomorrow. My AMD card that cost half as much? Cool as a cucumber and never given me any issues.

vossiewulf: "They won't give me what I want for free, so fark them."

Very professional, Linus, I'm sure that will win you more supporters and admirers and inspire many more companies to support your product.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's true. Nvidia makes their money by licensing their chip designs to manufacturers, who in turn makes their money by selling to buyers.

Nobody's saying "We'd like you to give us all your propritary chip design data for free." -- they're saying "We want to be able to interact with your chip to use it for its intended purpose. Please release an open-source driver that would allow us to interact with your chip. We'll even help making sure it works with the kernel. This would allow more Linux users to use your chips, resulting in more customers for you."

The former would allow anyone (with a foundry, that is) to replicate Nvidia chips. The latter would allow more people to *use* the Nvidia chips they bought (or would like to buy).

They already provide the drivers free-of-charge for Windows, so it's not like releasing an open-source driver at no cost would result in them losing money. All the proprietary bits are on the chip itself; why would the driver itself be sensitive in any way? People are going to reverse-engineer the driver anyway so they can use their cards, but this is time-consuming and error-prone. It'd be a lot nicer if Nvidia just released the source code to the driver.

/if they don't want to release the driver, fark 'em. Their competitors do.
//I actually prefer Nvidia hardware on my Windows systems. It'd be nice to use them to their full capability on my Linux systems too.

Linux users shoudn't get their noses out of joint too much anyway. The last game put out for linux was what, Unreal Tournament?

/Happy NVidia user

Vertdang: At the moment, I'm getting closer to "fark nvidia"

I've got an Asus gtx 560 oc/dc2 card that bluescreens every time the pc reboots any way other than through a normal shutdown/restart process. This occurs right after the load screen where the "welcome" should appear on the blue field, right before the login. If I ever have a windows update, or installation that requires a reboot, I have to boot to safe mode, remove the nvidia drivers, do the update, and then put the driver back on. This has been happening since january when I got the card.

The most stable driver at the moment seems to be nvidia's 275.33, I've tried all the release and most of the beta drivers that were listed since june of 2011.

If I leave the driver off, it works as a standard vga card, and works fine. But I can't play any games that way.
If I put my old 8800gtx back in the machine, I have no problems.
I've reinstalled win7x64 approximately 5 times trying to nail down where the problem was. Thinking it was a software confilct some where. On a barebones clean install, I still had the problem
I've even upgraded my power supply to a 750w running 64amps on a single rail.
I even tried all 3 ram sticks in different slots and as single sticks.
I'm wondering if it's just a bad factory overclock. so I tried both nvidia's ntune and msi's afterburner to lower the clocks, but since those load after windows starts, there's no effect.

This is driving me bonkers, do I contact nvidia for a replacement RMA? or does anyone have any ideas? (so very scared... etc)

intel i7 920, not overclocked
msi x58 platinum sli mobo w/ updated firmware
6gigs ram


I was about to post the same thing with my MSI GTX 560 Ti card. I have an Intel i7 920, Asus P6T x58 motherboard and 6GB of Ram running on Win 7 64 bit and the last batch of drivers have been complete crap. Continually crashing on YouTube at 1080P, Civ 5 and Guild Wars 2 beta (though that may be more a GW2 beta issue). It's farking annoying. I'll try going all the way back to that 275 version and see if that helps.

Sooo... Is ATI farking Linux friendly?

I only ask because... I used to give a fark.

I'm just about to buy a new Win7 machine with biatch'in graphics to avoid Win8. I really don't need a new machine but the fan is rattling in my 20 month old HP DV7.

/I can afford a $2k Alienware rig

wildcardjack: Sooo... Is ATI farking Linux friendly?

I only ask because... I used to give a fark.

I'm just about to buy a new Win7 machine with biatch'in graphics to avoid Win8. I really don't need a new machine but the fan is rattling in my 20 month old HP DV7.

/I can afford a $2k Alienware rig

You'll get a lot more hardware for that $2k at directron or tigerdirect or even newegg. Your case won't look like an alien's head carved out of soap, but then, you can't have everything.

I don't get it.

I have dual monitors set up in Lucid using the proprietary drivers and it works fine for me. Been running this setup for about a year and a half now.

FormlessOne: In other news, guy who wants companies to give to him, at their expense, what other companies pay for at significant expense, throws a rather unprofessional public fit because some companies refuse to do so.

Yet Nvidia has no hesitation about using Android, which is based off of Linus's work that he gives away for free, to their benefit to sell millions of Tegra chips. He is just asking for cooperation, not a handout, it can be very beneficial to both parties if Nvidia would work with the open source community. Even the Tegra line could benefit from better cooperation, TI embraces the open source community and their ARM line is doing quite well.

There are people willing to work on the drivers for them if they just release the information needed, the Nouveau team would be a lot further along, probably even further along than the current binary blobs from Nvidia. They've made it pretty far on their own by reverse engineering, imagine what they could do without having to waste so much effort on that part.

Linus needs Nvidia but Nvidia doesn`t need Linus. That`s why Linus is mad and Nvidia haven`t responded yet.

dready zim: Linus needs Nvidia but Nvidia doesn`t need Linus. That`s why Linus is mad and Nvidia haven`t responded yet.

Is it really a matter of need? I'm pretty sure Linux has gotten along so far, and so has Nvidia. Isn't more just a case of Linus preferring mutual benefit and Nvidia preferring unilateral benefit*, even if the benefit is smaller? (*Not because they don't want Linus to benefit - because they are protective of their IP)

Eh. It's a fundamental difference of philosophies. Nvidia supports proprietary IP especially re: their trade secrets, Linus Torvalds supports open source. It's not that either of them are wrong per se, but just from the article alone it seems that he's throwing a bit of an unfortunate fit over it. Of course his frustration is understandable, since he's trying to do something beneficial with Linux.

Still, the reality is the market share for Linux is at 1.03%, while the marketshare across XP/Vista/7/OS X 10.4-10.7 is 90.61%. It's little surprise where and why Nvidia sees its money and time best spent.

lordargent: I don't get it.

I have dual monitors set up in Lucid using the proprietary drivers and it works fine for me. Been running this setup for about a year and a half now.

[www.lordargent.com image 450x550]

[www.lordargent.com image 640x550]

Me neither. I use only nVidia cards, and they all work perfect on my Linux machines - 32 or 64 bit. I know my anecdotal experience is only that, but after 7 years of using nVidia graphics and desktop Linux distros, you'd think I would have experienced some of these problems.
Yes, it would be nice if everybody in the proprietary community gave everybody in the open source community everything they want - but that isn't going to happen, and I'm not going to single out nVidia for criticism when their hardware works just fine for me. YMMV.

Just came here to say GeForce 8800GT and GeForce 8400GS running on my system with 3 monitors with Xinerama.

Linux Mint FTW!

farkeruk: FormlessOne: In other news, guy who wants companies to give to him, at their expense, what other companies pay for at significant expense, throws a rather unprofessional public fit because some companies refuse to do so.

Or to put another way... guy wants to get it known that Nvidia stuff isn't good for Linux, does something that generates lots of headlines, therefore achieving his objective. It's very good that people building Linux boxes are aware of what works.

Listen to what Linus says... he doesn't even want the driver software, just the information to make compatible drivers. A lot of companies get that making compatible drivers makes sense. Hardware companies make money from hardware, not software. Intel, Lenovo are both great with Linux support.

This doesn't just affect guys building custom boxes. A lot of people put Cyanogen on old Android phones to get newer versions that their telco/manufacturer won't release. Try doing that when Cyanogen doesn't have all the drivers.

A bit of a minor threadjack, but cyanogen just released 7.2 stable a few days ago.

You may now continue with your nvidia hate.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Still, the reality is the market share for Linux is at 1.03%, while the marketshare across XP/Vista/7/OS X 10.4-10.7 is 90.61%. It's little surprise where and why Nvidia sees its money and time best spent.

No, the reality is that the future trend seems to be more towards tablets and mobile devices, and in that market, an OS running the Linux kernel (Android) is in a solid second place, only behind BSD.

Windows has towers and laptops locked up fairly well. Phones and tablets, though? BSD and Linux run those.

DesertEagle: Just came here to say GeForce 8800GT and GeForce 8400GS running on my system with 3 monitors with Xinerama.

Linux Mint FTW!

Why do you need an nVidia card for linux? You playing BF3 ?

Does this look like anything you have seen before?

Farktastic: Linux users shoudn't get their noses out of joint too much anyway. The last game put out for linux was what, Unreal Tournament?

/Happy NVidia user

I'm looking forward to the steam port for Linux. I run windows as my primary machine/development tool but my old laptop has been happily running Ubuntu for the past 2 years. Look forward to seeing how it's all going to work.

(I am, however, in the 'does it do what I need it to do? yes? well what's the problem then' camp when it comes to OSs)

Gonz: Dr. Mojo PhD: Still, the reality is the market share for Linux is at 1.03%, while the marketshare across XP/Vista/7/OS X 10.4-10.7 is 90.61%. It's little surprise where and why Nvidia sees its money and time best spent.

No, the reality is that the future trend seems to be more towards tablets and mobile devices, and in that market, an OS running the Linux kernel (Android) is in a solid second place, only behind BSD.

Windows has towers and laptops locked up fairly well. Phones and tablets, though? BSD and Linux run those.

There's truth in that (as well as the server market) but, again, today -- and for a while yet -- the reality is going to remain that desktop/notebooks dominate. I also don't see tablet/mobiles replacing notebooks. For places where towers will continue to be used regardless (development workstations, for example), nvidia's still going to control that, but not through any use of what normal end-users would consider a graphics card.

There's also the reality that with all that said, Nvidia can develop and support proprietary drivers for these platforms without making their drivers or documentation open.

Or at least they'd be foolish not to.

lordargent: Been running this setup for about a year and a half now.

Try getting support if something goes wrong or a feature of the chipset you need isn't implemented. The Linux community will (rightfully) tell you to take your prop drivers and shove them up your ass and Nvidia will pretend you don't exist.

sithon: skinink: He should worry less about NVidia and should say something about the numerous distros out there, many looking very unpolished, lacking basic documentation and a biatch to configure.

not any more , it's easier to manage than windows now. I think the current versions of Ubuntu look pretty professionial now.

lolwut

doesn't matter what nVidia does. sooner or later, they'll have to deal with Linux because Linux is growing faster outside the U.S. than inside, thanks to Monopolysoft. as linux grows its userbase, nVidia will see the light.

I've been on both sides of the "My rig works fine under linux" argument...
When things work, it's fine and you don't stress about this stuff.

When it doesn't work, you're in for a nasty day trying to track down workarounds.

I watched the entire (1hr) talk this screengrab was taken from. He actually makes a point to say something like "I like being outrageous" and goes on at length about the importance of being honest when you don't like something.

cgalant: I watched the entire (1hr) talk this screengrab was taken from. He actually makes a point to say something like "I like being outrageous" and goes on at length about the importance of being honest when you don't like something.

I didn't watch it, but glad you're pointing this out. If you've ever read or listened to Torvalds before, you'd know he's blunt and honest and doesn't hold grudges. I doubt NVidia is offended.

Been using Nvidia driver support on Linux with unbuntu+XBMC for years. Only drivers at the time to support hardware acceleration so tiny HT pc's can play 1080p with no cpu load.

gmoney101: Why do you need an nVidia card for linux? You playing BF3 ?

Does this look like anything you have seen before?

Well, Valve is releasing a native Steam client for Linux which also will include native clients of their Source games. EA is also set to release Origin for Linux.

Personally, I don't play games on my Linux partitions, but it would be nice to have the option. And if that means the drivers I use are pushed to be properly developed, even better.

gmoney101: Why do you need an nVidia card for linux? You playing BF3 ?

I usually buy the Humble Bundle when a new one comes out, and a lot of the games require 3d acceleration, which requires me to run the proprietary NVIDIA drivers that occasionally freeze my system.

What's that Linus? Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my SLI setup!

wildcardjack: Sooo... Is ATI farking Linux friendly?

I only ask because... I used to give a fark.

I'm just about to buy a new Win7 machine with biatch'in graphics to avoid Win8. I really don't need a new machine but the fan is rattling in my 20 month old HP DV7.

/I can afford a $2k Alienware rig

I've got to be missing something because:
1. Buy new fan
2. Open case
3. Replace fan

?

Gonz: Dr. Mojo PhD: Still, the reality is the market share for Linux is at 1.03%, while the marketshare across XP/Vista/7/OS X 10.4-10.7 is 90.61%. It's little surprise where and why Nvidia sees its money and time best spent.

No, the reality is that the future trend seems to be more towards tablets and mobile devices, and in that market, an OS running the Linux kernel (Android) is in a solid second place, only behind BSD.

Windows has towers and laptops locked up fairly well. Phones and tablets, though? BSD and Linux run those.

Actually android (linux) is in first place at around 45+%, apple's OS (BSD to you...) is 30%+.

Who knew making an OS and letting all phone companies use them would get you more market share.

Why should a company dedicate half of its resources to support an OS that, in relative terms, has no market share?

WTF? Currently running two GTX 580 cards on my openSuSE box. I'm writing some multi-physics FEA code.

I don't know about open source but all the video/CUDA drivers are up and running and I've got two Fermi optimized lapack installations. Nasty fast math, don't do much graphics.

I don't know what Linus is complaining about.